>>16859353
Start by thinking that we are full of misconceptions and harming beliefs about ourselves. It it hard to talk to oneself all by oneself. So talking to oneself through someone professional may be helpful

>>16859353
are you bad at parsing english? I normally avoid reading anything an AI writes but that makes clear sense.

>>16859357
Is it not a simpler answer to say people improve with mental training though? I would have expected that to be the leading theory and it's a much more simple answer.

>>16859359
What prediction errors though? Doesn't the more simple answer involve controlling your beliefs to avoid biased interpretations?

>>16859353
Alright, as someone who actually underwent CBT for anxiety i can give a brief summary.

Basically we have an inner-critic and this inner critic forms core beliefs about ourself, these beliefs in turn create thoughts about ourselves, what people think of us, and situations we may be in.

The key is to understand these negative thoughts aren't reality and silly a byproduct of prior self beliefs, notice them when they appear, and retrain them into positive thoughts. There's a lot more shit but that's the basics.

And yes, it actually works.

>>16859373
So let me get this straight, they can train your mind to do things?

>>16859376
Forgot to add, it goes core beliefs > negative thoughts > negative self talk > physical manifestation. It's quite amazing how we don't continuously recognize this self reinforcing loop or our thoughts if we are not explicitly told to evaluate them.

At least that's how it was for me before CBT, i thought this loop was just "me" and never questioned if these thoughts were reality.

>Train mind to do things
Its more like using your conscious mind to undo your core beliefs. With enough conscious awareness and correction you can "retrain" your thought patterns and beliefs.

There's some aspects to it like exposure therapy that don't involve these techniques as well, that's just get out there and do shit enough until your comfortable.

The general idea is, that trauma processing is non-linear - it's iterative instead. People do not and generally can not work through their problems sequentially and constructively, and instead get stuck in internal loops. Consider data-processing inequality: one cannot yield extra information with computation only.

So, when people ruminate and are unable to integrate disruptive experiences, therapy both supplies a stable, recurring environment to face said problems, that usually involve challenging emotional load and defenses like dissociation. As you keep encountering the distressing memories and thought-patterns, their emotional load tends to change in tone. Memory is reconstructive, not recollective, after all.

Furthermore, it doesn't hurt to have someone around to offer external input, even though therapist can't solve anyone's problems. That's still on you. But consider the DPI again - at least you get external input, usually quite observant too.

Does it work? From what I hear, it might. Is it fun? No. It seems to be very frustrating and hard work. Does it yield results? Perhaps not during the sessions. Over time, it doesn't seem to make things worse, and people tend to get by. Is there a mechanism? Not in the way people might think. It's not engineering. Why is it expensive? Holding strangers' emotional burdens is exhausting.

>>16859376
World model = beliefs about self

Predictive processing = beliefs about self and negative self talk results in this mental reality becoming actual reality.

Prediction error = conscious interference

>>16859379
You know what I just realized? People are doing mental training already, it's called meditation and it has positive results.

>>16859353
People struggle with dealing with their own shit, and having a second person to serve as an outside observer of one's shit and a sounding board for reflecting on one's shit is useful. Simple as.

>>16859378
This reads like ChatGPT slop and either way is profoundly pseudoscientific and misappropriates scientific terms.

It's just brainwashing yourself to be happy with extra steps.

>>16859662
That doesn't do shit to alter core beliefs, no direction in it, literally useless. Don't compare it to established and successful psychology programs.

>>16859719
You need religious beliefs too. People need guidance and direction when they do that.

>>16859353
You know that fear of clowns you developed because you father would wear his clown outfit while raping you?
You could transfer that to from "clowns" to "aliens" with a little semantic reprogramming via alien-rape roleplays.

Therapist
The rapist

>>16859353
>>16859353
It says therapy works by gaslighting you into believing that whatever makes you so anxious and depressed is all in your head. Can you prove to the therapist that your subjective perceptions are accurate? No? Too bad. Here's a bunch of neutral interpretations for any negative situation you've encountered. Now, can you prove to the therapist they aren't more accurate than your negative one? Don't his takes sound more rational than yours? Sure, the therapist wasn't there to witness the nuances that coalesced into your gloomy impressions, but he didn't need to be. He knows how your perverse little mind works. After all, he's fine, so the world is fine and the problem is (You). You distort everything.

So why not embrace one of the alternatives? You can't? His of seeing is still utterly alien to you? That's ok. All in good time. The seeds of doubt have been planted, so now go forth and doubt your own sense of the reality. Whenever something bad happens to you, interject on the therapist's behalf and inject his 'maybes' until it becomes a new habit. Once the clarity you thought you had about life is lost, he can really start working on you. So tell him all about those newly ambiguous and confusing situations you've been finding yourself in. Let him tell you what should be taken as a meaningful cue and what can be ignored as mental noise. Allow your expectations to sync with his theory and keep an eye out for confirmations until at last, you become normal.

And that is the story of """inducing prediction errors"""" to change the """internal world model""" to """alleviate symptoms""" of """emotional distress""".

>>16860048
You're talking too much about an issue that, at its core, is just an excess of the private market.
Therapies aren't meant to help you. And I beg you to find one therapeutic scheme that specifically claims to do so. If they did, many therapeutic schemes would become unprofitable and unstable for professionals. The point of therapy is to make you feel like you achieved something while making you beg for more intervention. A good therapist simply projects whatever his customer thinks of as progress in order to keep the customer captured. Simultaneously, the therapist makes sure that no actual progress is achieved so that the imbalance that has originally caused the customer to request a therapist still persists.
If you ever felt that the point of CBT is anything other than suppressing negative thoughts that, inevitably, feeds into an already existing depression or compulsion, you're wrong.
This works for any variety of therapy. Some are pretty open about only being into cash like applied behavioral analysis which is a spectacular failure, owned by hedgefunds and a major reason for our artifical ADHD/autism epidemic meant to bankrupt the tax-payer funded insurance pot.

>>16860597
>private market
Adding this phrase to the filter. I've never heard it coming from an intelligent interlocutor.

>>16860601
Convenient way of foregoing critical engagement and living in a make-believe bubble.
But then again, tv, bot-farms and co. ensure that the feeble-minded masses still believe in mindless consumption of such services..

Bad cog therapy doesnt work

>>16859373
>>16859376
There is Zero empirical evidence for this. All of psych can be thrown out with Freud. It's complete pseusoscientific bullshit which will all be replaced with a chip in the brain and some drugs.

>>16860780
>the feeble-minded masses
That's you. "Feeble-minded" has many niches and I assure you "the market" knows how to exploit your kind to the max.

>>16860792
You are currently just "no u"ing which is a fairly well-known troll tactic. The fact you engage in it shows that you are trying to derail critical discussions and trying to preserve the status quo, e.g. scammy therapeutic schemes.

>>16860799
You sound literally mentally ill and obsessed. Show me where the therapist touched you, Timmy.

>>16860802
Troll or Bot.
Stamped.
Do not engage.

>>16860805
Good thing health care is private in the developed world or else the would be hordes of state-sponsored cripples like you acting insane all over the place.

>>16859353
People have blackbox mind. Either they dont examine it or they dont even know they have a fucking mind. Therapy is just people telling others who do know how minds work, how to reshape the mind properly

>>16860844
>Therapy is just people telling others who do know how minds work, how to reshape the mind properly
Wrong. "Therapy" is when people who don't actually know anything about anything practice a brainwashing technique on the patient to control the symptoms of a social disease they're a part of.

I don't understand this thread at all.

>>16860601
Even the private market has risks. It takes tact to be able enter any market, especially when the risk is high

>>16859367
>beliefs
>interoretations
you mean prediction models?

Alot of people miss the basic character of these kind of things. Threat/Reward isn't the best approach to these things, nor is the egoist game good for any return value.

Threat/Reward is often better suited to the lower limbs of the darwinian marketplace.

>>16860910
>prediction models
Are the prediction models in the room with us? Please specify the "prediction models" in question mathematically.

>>16859373
cock and ball torture

>>16859366
is the same thing the same as the same thing

therapy provides context, if humans had any free will, they could conjure their own

>>16859353
if you put some noise in your neural network's training data, it is more likely to settle on a better fit because the noise has a chance of dragging it out of any local minima while not doing much harm overall

I'm partially convinced therapy is for the stupid, or simple to phrase is kinder, I've done deep mind dives onto myself and discovered several cores to some of my issues and have even snuffed a few out, this works because zero people will ever know be better than I can, so why the fuck would I pay some random fuck in a chair hundreds an hours for what I can do myself with enough thinking