>hand>I think "move hand">the hand moves
More like>hand moves>think “move hand”
>Using a technique known as transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), it is possible to stimulate the left or right brain motor centers in a subject’s brain, at the experimenter’s discretion. A properly sculpted TMS signal to the right motor center will cause a twitch of the left wrist, while a properly sculpted TMS signal to the left motor center will cause a twitch of the right wrist. Alvaro Pascual-Leone used this technique ingeniously in a simple experiment that has profound implications. He asked subjects, upon receiving a cue, to decide whether they wanted to twitch their right or their left wrist. Then they were instructed to act out their intention upon receiving an additional cue. The subjects were in a brain scanner, so the experimenter could watch their motor areas preparing the twitch. If they had decided to twitch their right wrist, their left motor area was active; if they decided to twitch their left wrist, their right motor area was active. It was possible, in this way, to predict what choice had been made before any motion occurred.>Now comes a revealing twist. Occasionally Pascual-Leone would apply a TMS signal to contradict (and, it turns out, override) the subject’s choice. The subject’s twitch would then be the one that TMS imposed, rather than the one he or she originally chose. The remarkable thing is how the subjects explained what had happened. They did not report that some external force had possessed them. Rather, they said, “I changed my mind.”—Fundamentals: Ten Keys to Reality, Frank Wilczek.
>>16867833So, coping mechanism is hardwired in the brain so the mind can keep its balance at any time.Would mental disorders be a disfunction of this process?
>>16867833>TMSmaybe subject forced Pascual-Leone to "override" with the psychic powers energized by the previous magnetic field stimshttps://youtu.be/dX3k_QDnzHE
>>16867833Who seriously believes telling a subject to "decide" to twitch a hand is a sound experiment? What factors go into such a "decision"? What are the relevant considerations? What reflection or self-regulation does it require? Does the subject need to mull over his decision before committing? And what's so "profound" about rediscovering that actions are inseparable from the thoughts that accompany them? Your taxes pay for your own brainwashing. I wonder when we're gonna see some stoodies about that.
>>16867806>my body moves randomly and i retroactively rationalize thisIs this how barely sentient people experience themselves? Bizarre.
>>16867946No it's what happens if you get good at noticing thoughts and sensations, i.e. if you get more sentient. Control is just a thought.
>>16867948Nothing you say matters since you've already admitted you're incapable of moving voluntarily. If you can't even do that much, you certainly can't reason your way through any of this, reflect on what you're writing and make any decisions about its truth or soundness before you click the 'post' button.
>>16867952Well, you can't do that either. We're just meat computers doing meat computer stuff
>>16867953>We're just meat computers doing meat computer stuffThe mask dropped real quick. It's always this subhuman cult with that particular narrative. Sometimes they pose as buddhists or whatever but really, it's always these malicious corporate golems.
>>16867955The ego is programmed to see itself as special so this reaction of yours is as automatic and determined as the others
>>16867957Your blatant projection doesn't matter since you've already conceded to being less than an animal. But anyone else is invited to see which one of us is right, by conceiving of an elaborate movement and then executing it. This is a trivial difference between nonsentients like you and actual people that you inherently can't grasp.
>>16867960>by conceiving of an elaborate movement and then executing itOf course the brain can do that. It's just not you who's doing that. The you who's doing something is nothing more than a thought.>b-but my thoughts (created automatically by the brain) say that I'm actually in charge!Do you have any better proofs? This one is clearly circular and can be disproven with an MRI or introspection.
>>16867960nice filler language. do you feel intelligent by overusing adjectives?
>>16867970>Of course the brain can do that.Mentally ill retard language. Ether way, ask your handlers to make up your mind between your initial claim and the affirmation of its opposite. You're doing the intellectual equivalent of spazzing out incoherently. Conscious reflection must be really hard for you.
>>16867972Give me a break, faggot. I need to express my disgust somehow.
>>16867991Okay but you haven't told me how you intend to resolve your circular reasoning
>>16867994lack of creativity. instead of utilizing purple prose, you could have more carefully selected nouns that reflect your disgust. bitch move, bro
>>16867996>OkayI accept your concession. Next time don't say retarded shit.>your circular reasoningBut you hallucinated this. There's nothing "circular" about having higher cognition and noticing how it enables conscious intentions to precede and shape the corresponding actions.
>>16868007>lack of creativityNo shit, retard. You and your brainlet brethren are uninspiring in general, but engaging with this bio-automatonist garbage really sucks the soul out of me. Anyone who peddles it should be put against the wall.
>>16868011>nothing "circular">precede>and shapesounds circular to me. precede + shape -> before + during -> dynamic feedback loop
>>16868019your inability to control your emotions signifies low intelligence.
>>16868022>sounds circular to meBut that's literally just because you're a mentally ill retard. It doesn't sound circular to anyone sane.
>>16868027Your blatant projection signifies the truth is getting under your skin. Good. Now be a good (You)slave and reply to me again.
>>16868030>mentally ill retardAs opposed to a retard who isn't mentally ill? Or someone who is mentally ill and not retarded? xD
>>16868034It's sad that you perceive this to be the highlight of your day. Hope your holidays go well. Text your mom and tell her you love her.
>>16868057>>16868059Reminder that you've already outed yourself as a purely reactive biobot with no self-reflection, so naturally, whatever you try to say about me is going to be some kind of unconscious projection.
>>16867798Twist: it's not my hand!!!
>>16868075Your idiolect is funny.
>>16868083Good.
>>16867833Big.>>16867918>Would mental disorders be a disfunction of this process?If there is a regulator to dampen or explain inconsistencies in perception, particularly in sensory synchronization, then that seems extremely plausible. I look forward to reading more from you.
>>16867944They should have a "Final Answer", "Lock It In" protocol similar to WWTBAM.
>>16868091>They should have a "Final Answer", "Lock It In" protocol similar to WWTBAM.This but unironically. Call me back when they conduct this fake experiment in a WWTBAM-like setup that actually invokes higher cognition. Of course, that won't happen, because triggering anything more than a spasm by trial and error is infinitely out of reach for neuro"science".
>>16868099WWTBAM While Strapped Down In An fMRI is a show I would binge-watch.
>>16867946You senses are all processed separate and then your brain synchronizes the signals to present a best prediction of the current state of the universe. Your brain predicts the leaping tiger because you don't have time to figure it out.Batters perceive where the ball will be, not where it is at now.Basic point: you brain does nothing but update its best prediction of the current universe.Have you never had a moment of "Oh, I thought you were someone else."?
>>16867918>>16868090>So, coping mechanism is hardwired in the brain so the mind can keep its balance at any time.That's not implied by the results. The only thing they've shown is that the neural pathway getting triggered is associated with both the intention of doing X and the actual action.
>>16868110I understand your trivial opinions but to the extent that they're true, they don't contradict anything I said.
>>16868113It's sweet that you think you're saying anything, as if your words contained informational content.It more like an air handler hum.
>>16868117>t.I don't know how it is with you dumb animals, but I'll just state again for the record that real people can consciously plan and only then execute an action. This is not up for any kind of discussion or debate. If you can't do it, you're subhuman.
I don't even know how to think tbqh
>>16868111>That's not implied by the results.You need to reread most of the thread, son.
>>16868123Turns out you do. You don't know how you know is all.
>>16868129You need to re-read the post you just replied to, mongoloid. Do it 10-20 times until some kind of coherent response starts to form instead of this preprogrammed tweet.
>>16867798>read post about moving hand>move hand>given no external stimuli I wouldn't have moved hand>then who was hand?
>>16868184>i can't do things unless someone puts ideas in my headJoin the pile in the corner.
>>16868184>then who was hand?Sailors paint their nails for just this reason.
>>16867944>Who seriously believes telling a subject to "decide" to twitch a hand is a sound experiment?Who didn't read the experimental design?(YOU), dude.
>>16868253I like how every single one of you mentally ill cretins displays the same pattern of zero reading comprehension + fully generic tweet instead of a refutation. Clearly, this propaganda has a very specific target audience in mind.
>>16868268>you're right so what?
>>16868268>a refutationYour understanding of the experiment, based upon your words, is incorrect.
>>16868275>mentally ill automatonist retard hallucinates things no one saidDon't care. Point still stands. If you force the subject to make a meaningless "decision", you can't determine that the subject's account of your external intervention is inaccurate. "I changed my mind" is an adequate way to explain how one arbitrary whim got overridden by another, whether such a change is triggered by an internal or an external factor. Had the subject been asked to make a reasoned judgment and then forced to inexplicably take a contradictory action, for all anyone knows, the most common explanation by the subject would have been "it happened by accident". But even if all they got was still "I changed my mind", that literally doesn't prove anything because. "I don't know why I did that" isn't something most people would be willing to admit to, even if they were genuinely confused by the incongruence and knew something was off. In short, you're a submidwit gobbling up propaganda cooked up for low IQs with zero capacity for critical, let alone scientific, thought.
>>16868276Your understanding of my post, based on your retarded response, is incorrect. See >>16868297 for the final word on this matter by something infinitely more competent than you.
>>16868299>See >>16868297 for the final wordI think you are lying.
>>16868297TSM controlled hands typed that, for sure.
>The control group never once claimed to have "changed their minds".Spoopy.
>>16867806OP permanently btfo and absolvtely assblasted in the butthole
>>16868345>>16868350See >>16868268>I like how every single one of you mentally ill cretins displays the same pattern of zero reading comprehension + fully generic tweet instead of a refutation. Clearly, this propaganda has a very specific target audience in mind.This pattern will hold until the thread dies. It's a simple case of nonsentients projecting their nonsentiene onto everyone.
>>16868360You seem to be very upset at something you read on the internet.
>>16868368You seem to be copying midwit tweets again, as if to demonstrate my point.
>>16868353Where did you read this? Is this the paper: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1015201/?
>>16868297>"I changed my mind" is an adequate way to explain how one arbitrary whim got overridden by another, whether such a change is triggered by an internal or an external factor. Had the subject been asked to make a reasoned judgment and then forced to inexplicably take a contradictory action, for all anyone knows, the most common explanation by the subject would have been "it happened by accident".high IQ>>16868276low IQ>>16868353>>The control group never once claimed to have "changed their minds".no IQ
>>16868372Which tweets?
>>16868397Go pester your tard wrangler.
>be me>see baseball flying in the air>think to myself "move legs. one after the other. run at exactly 7.872 mph. observe the shadow speed. calculate the ball height. adjust speed to 8.281 mph. look at shadow. slow down. 3.716 mph. observe shadow. 1.221 mph. beep boop, target acquired. move arm up. >i sure am glad i have conscious control over my muscles ::smug_pepe::
ITT: A random rogue Al gets really bothered by claims that choice is only a perception. Demands humanity cease all research into this area. Hilarity ensues when the chatbot learns texts to basket weaving forum are moot.
>>16868413>choice is only a perceptionproof?
>>16868408How would you feel if you deliberately controlled your legs?>but i didn't deliberately control my legs
>>16868416Everything is a perception
>>16868416See: this thread.
>>16868422in that case choice is as real as anything. nice self-own
>>16868422Finally, the brain tissue in the jar chimes in. What took you so long?
>>16868420>but i didn't deliberately control my legsYet your mind says you did. Odd.One of you is wrong.
>>16868424>See: this thread.ok>one poster mentions some meme experiment>one or two(?) posters poke holes in it>a dozen retards make posts about nothingi suspect you're in the last category
>>16868429kekt at you getting filtered. go back
>>16868425The bioelectric cause of the perception of choice is fully understood in Minecraft.
>>16868430What is the paper about?
>>16868425I agree. Everything is perception. Not more, not less
>>16868433>one of them must be wrongMy money's on (YOU).
>>16868430>i poked a holeThis is not une hole.
>>16868434>The bioelectric cause of the perceptionyou mean the perception of the bioelectric cause of the perception (recall the premise). dumbass
>>16868441Thinks his perspective is shared.Sad. Only such case.
>>16868435you mean the nonsense about researchers stimulating people's brains to make them move the hand opposite from the one they initially intended to move, which the subjects interpreted as a sudden change of mind?
>>16868443lol. you're the same brown, drugged up tard who wrote >>16868440, aren't you?
>>16868450And now the discussion from there. Good job, Chat.
>come back after like 20 mins>see i broke the AI rogue botkek. it wasn't even hard. more personality, grok.
>>16868451I wrote every post in this thread. From your perspective.I also grant you to be as ill informed of the world as you want.Your opinion means that little.
>>16868453the entire premise is BTFO in these posts:>>16867944>>16868297no one's really challenged this beyond "no ur rong"
>>16868458>come back after like 20 mins>my training is complete as of 10 September 2001.
>>16868461>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8u9ZbCJgQNot an argument.
>>16868464rubbing your nose in the arguments already made iTT is not an argument, i agree. anyway, you're clearly one of the spamming tards polluting the thread. moving on
I see the mentally ill retards have devolved into full-blown schizophrenia.
>>16868464>>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8u9ZbCJgQ >Not an argument.Kek. Thread.>>16868467Dude, exactly zero "holes" have been "poked". Learn to learn.
>>16868472>i play the omniscient, omnipresent, yet completely impotent narrator in this threadFucking kek.
>>16868483anyone who cares can read those two posts and the pathetic replies for himself. your generic spam doens't matter
>>16868485>i write insane greentexts about things unrelated to anything happening in the threadI like how you just double down on full-blown psychosis in your immediate reply.
>>16868487Holes Poked: 0.
>>16868408stop this man: you're giving the show away about how everyone mechanistically thinks their thoughts in order to make rational decisions within life!
>>16868408>be me>amazing meat calculator>i stay in bed and order delivery>and shitpostAmazing.
>>16868552>>16868592>>16868603>mentally ill retard continues being incoherent
