why do particles behave differently when not observed?
They have stage fright, just like me.
Define observer
>>16868549Obviously it's because consciousness is fundamental to reality!Yes indeed, the laws of Quantum Physics state that when a conscious being observes the world, it becomes localized and particulate. This amazing "Observer Effect" is behind everything we see in our every day lives. Isn't science fascinating???
>>16868554A camerA Lens OR huMAn Eye IN The eNViRONmeNT
>>16868556how do they do the observed vs non observed states?
>>16868559When a human eye or a camera is pointed at an experiment, it is said to be "observed".
>>16868549>[W]hy do particles behave differently when not observed?Because they like to.I mean, particles don't even exist.Only waves exist.
>>16868554https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/3134:_Wavefunction_Collapse
>>16868567Reddit cancer
>>16868556it's a strawman to suggest the only other interpretation is specifically consciousness and attack that.
>>16868567So I clicked the link in your article to observer, it redirected me to Wikipedia where I read the following> Of course the introduction of the observer must not be misunderstood to imply that some kind of subjective features are to be brought into the description of nature. The observer has, rather, only the function of registering decisions, i.e., processes in space and time, and it does not matter whether the observer is an apparatus or a human being; but the registration, i.e., the transition from the "possible" to the "actual," is absolutely necessary here and cannot be omitted from the interpretation of quantum theory.Is he retarded? The wave function collapses because we need an observer, which we define here as that which can collapse the wave function. Beautiful… just throw quantum physics in the toilet there is a reason you can’t get jobs
>>16868562then how they measure/observe the other state, how they observe the non observed?
>>16868549>>16868553Attention whores>>16868554Photon bounce
>>16868597>how they observe the non observed?No photon bounced. But prior photon bouce knocked particle, so it might be hard to find, OK?
>>16868549It's not about observation, it's because trying to extract information from it alters the quantum system.Basically imagine you have a half-filled balloon like this. When you squeeze the air on one side, it moves toward the other end, and leaves your side deflated. Superposition kind of works like that, it's tied to the uncertainty principle. In order to measure a particle, you need to get information about its position, so you "squeeze" the superposition away into into momentum instead. It's actually never quite reduced into a "single outcome", the range of possible positions is just greatly reduced until it kind of looks a not like a little point, but it's still in superposition. Meanwhile, the momentum now becomes very unclear.
>>16868606>photon bounceAh another lunatic that thinks gravity is propagated via particles… and photons of all! lol
>>16868562but what if a cat or a dog observes the particle?what about a worm?
>>16868620>photon bounce into manbearpig eyeThat's cool.
>>16868549The type of behavior something exhibits depends on the measurement. If you design an experiment intended to measure particle-like properties, you get particle-like measurements, if you design an experiment intended to measure wave-like properties, you get wave-like measurements, despite the measurements being made on the same entity.
>>16868549because to observe something, you need to measure it, and to measure it, you need to take energy from the system and reflect it back, quantum systems are just THAT sensible to energy fluctuations.
>>16868640>be me, observer near black hole>dont reflect any particles, dont see any photonsDo I accelerate into it or no? Srs question
>>16868643General relativity says yes.Quantum mechanics says probably yes.
>>16868645You’re lying to me about QM you cocksucker
>>16868643You cant observe the blackhole, you do observe the ring of light that is formed on its event horizon tho.Theoretically, inside the event horizon (given that you can somehow approach a black hole and survive), your time perception would stretch to infinity, so you would not accelerate there, but be frozen into a stasis state for all eternity.
>>16868647Also, a black hole is hardly a good object to use on quantum physics scenarios, given its mass and how it interacts with the macro cosmos.
>>16868649Gee maybe cause gravity has nothing to do with light? Light bows to gravity never the other way around and you’re telling me with a straight face that gravitational attraction wouldn’t exist without a photon bouncing between the two objects? Give some source on this son cause im getting tired of you trolling my thread
>>16868652I never wrote "light", but energy. When you measure something by observation, you take and reflect energy back to the system, and yeah, hearing or feeling something also counts as measuring it.About the gravity thing, gravity is a meme, no one has ever seen or measured a graviton, and without this magical particle that mediates the phenomena, gravity, even when we can tangibly see its effects is nothing but an dangling theory.
>>16868639You read that in a book and the mnemonic is the only reason you remember that line.
>>16868549They're just like me, fr
>>16868549a particle is fully described by its quantum statethe act of measuring some property of that quantum state (e.g. position, momentum, etc.) changes the quantum statein particular, the quantum state becomes a state associated with the value measuredeach kind of measurement has a set of states that aren't changed by the measurement, and each of these states are each associated with a value that can be measuredthese states form a kind of coordinate system basis in which you can expand any quantum state innow, most people know that quantum mechanics has some randomness about itit turns out the coefficients of such a coordinate expansion are related to the probabilities of measuring the associated states of the expansionwhen measured, the quantum state randomly becomes one of these states based on these probablitesof course, if a quantum state is measured the same way twice, the second measurement will 100% of the time be the same as the first measurement, since the quantum state has become one of the states that the measurement doesn't changetaking all that in, why do people say particles act as both point-particles and waves?that's because when measuring position, the associated states are point-like spikes at their associated position valueswhen taking momentum measurements, the associated states are waves whose wavelength depends on their associated momentawhat's interesting is that there is no way to expand a position state (a point) in terms of a single momentum state (a wave)likewise there is no way to expand a momentum state (a wave) in terms of a single position state (a point)so if you measure a quantum state's position, it becomes point-like. measure it again, and you get the same point.but if you then take a momentum measurement, it takes a wide spread of momentum states to represent the point-like state, so nature rolls the dice and you get a random wave state.pic related, but not described specifically in this post
>>16868670>a particle is fully described by its quantum stateProofs?
>>16868672there's no proof, it's an axiom of QM consistent with observation and experiment
btw, i keep saying quantum stateyou may be more familiar with the term wavefunctionhowever, they are not the samethe wavefunction is the quantum state expanded in the position basis
>>16868674Prove a particle is fully described by its quantum state prior to observation
>>16868677one can't learn about a quantum state prior to measuring itonce measured, you can use schodinger's equation et al to figure out how it evolves in time while you aren't looking at it
>>16868681Wym it’s an oscillator with initial conditions, if my head is turned then I know with certainty after time T the quantum state without any measurement
>>16868549The particle turns into a wave when the man turns around and is not looking at the particle. The three gold things come out of the man's face when he looks at the particle, this is what triggers the change. Your picture is already showing what is happening to the particle in great detail. There's nothing left to say really.
>>16868549they’re just shy. also they hate humans.
its actually so fucking.obvious that its because of quantum fields
>>16868570>Oh I hate reddit and xkcd so much>proceed making exactly the same jokes.4chan in a nutshell
>>16868575the wave function only collapses for me, not for you. try again
>>16868549"Observed" actually just means "interacted with" and the talk about how things behave when they're not observed is abstract metaphysics. Any observable differences stem from the underlying logic of the interactions being different and thus producing different results.
>>16868570reddit drerangement syndrome
>>16868549you need glasses nigga, sorry to tell ya
>>16868549They don't. Sorry but this is a retarded meme, you're literally just measuring different things.
>>16868613Thanks, I was able to understand that. Effective communicator and salient example.
The act of interaction, the collision with the photon or the detector's mechanism, transfers energy and momentum to the quantum particle. The interaction is significant enough to fundamentally change the particle's state, affecting its position or momentum in a way that is negligible in the macroscopic world but critical at the quantum scale.
Observation creates a circuit.
>>16868549You can do looking observations on big objects. You can't look at particles. You have to chuck other particles at them to see if they are even there. Hence, interacting with them, rather than looking at them.
>>16868556>Nothing existed before conscious animals showed up on earth
>>16868549I think it's because observing devices like eyes or cameras absorb the wave aspect of the photon
If we live in a simulation then it could be a way to spare system resources with both unrendered geometry and foveated rendering.If you look directly at your screen in front of you everything is blurred around it. And you have no way of knowing if everything behind you is unrendered, just like in a video game.https://youtu.be/NPK8eQ4o8Pk
>>16871745This is actually a pretty good pointThat makes me wonder whether panpsychism has more merit than I thought NTA
>>16868549Wave particle duality is an example of the converse error fallacy: waves -> wave-like pattern => wave-like pattern -> waves. Physicists are that stupid.
>>16872760https://youtu.be/-JmNKGfFj7w
