“Alien life exists elsewhere. The odds are just too good.”“But alien life visiting us? No. Impossible. It could never happen.”Are scientists just retarded?. “No you can’t come here. We’re off limits. No way no how. Cope.”It’s fucking weird. Do scientists not consider successor theories to our own limitations? Do they think our limitations are everyone else’s limitations?
>>16869289yes anon I'm sure all scientists are retarded and wrong and all scientists think the same way with no differences in opinions because they are collectively assigned a work title.
>>16869306>who are you quotingThe entire scientific community when they pretend they aren’t waging a war or waging a challenge against the rest of the universe
>>16869313If you believe everyone is saying it then surely you can be specific and point out just one example of that being said no?
>>16869306> it's like asking will a sand particle in south africa ever come in direct physical contact with one from norwayAnd yet with the power of intelligence a human can hypothetically pick up one grain of sand (Norway) and another grain of sand (Africa) and rub them against one another in between their fingers Try rubbing your two brain cells together some time
>>16869315Anon when you say aliens can’t come here you are effectively making a challenge to the rest of the universe I’m not stupid enough to do that; it implies terror of the unknown - a form of cope
>>16869306If something acquired the capacity to bypass the relative speed/limit of light and go anywhere in space, they could very easily use math to chart for other stars and planets. If aliens had access to their own spacetime bubble they could absolutely travel to other spots in space for pure curiosity’s sake. If time is no longer an issue then why not?
>>16869289Its because they don't know. If scientists actually knew anything then they'd know the things they don't know but they don't know some things which proves they don't know anything.
We humans are incredibly dangerous. Monkey beast apex predators who split the atom, while at the same time globally separating our sound financial system based upon the natural rarity of the universes stellar element evolution formation of The Creator and replacing it with Federal Reserve FIAT Slop goyim unbacked certificate paper golem trash.All 200 fucking nations are speed running FIAT hyper inflation balanced out by mass warfare extinction. Our leaders worship wealth and power above anything else.Money is our world leaders Lord. Coming here as an alien is suicidal at best, a risk for the rest of the entire galaxy at worst if greedy human slaver trash were to ever get its hands upon such technology. The level of greed most of these fucking human vampires possess is beyond monumental
>>16869338The analogy didn’t go over his head. He’s saying distance can be beaten. You’re in a state of coping panic right now. This refusal to believe we’ve been visited is indistinguishable from being afraid of demons or faeries.
>>16869338>i mean sure but right now we have no reason to believe otherwiseWe have no reason to believe that there could be civilizations that have surpassed us? Keep parroting that “Humanity Fuck Yeah” perspective. Cringe.
>>16869358Oh look. More “Humanity Fuck Yeah”. It probably wouldn’t be hard for an alien to fuck with us anon.
>>16869386> we have no reason to suspect it can beThe issue is you’re running under our already limited assumptions
>>16869386By claiming aliens can’t come here you’re effectively flexing the superior defenses of humanity - which in this case is just saying “physics will protect us! It would never allow visitors!” - to which I say “that’s indistinguishable from believing God will save you”.
>>16869289>“Alien life exists elsewhere. The odds are just too good.”The odds are unknowable for as long as we don't know how likely life is.>“But alien life visiting us? No. Impossible. It could never happen.”Nobody says this. But "look for explanations within established knowledge before going into wild conjecture" is just common sense.>Do scientists not consider successor theories to our own limitations? Do they think our limitations are everyone else’s limitations?What do you even mean by this?
>>16869358>Coming here as an alien is suicidal at bestLiterally God came down here once. Even dressed like us and said shit like, "be nice", "have a free fish sammie", and "lighten up, it's just water!", and you know what?We killed him.
AttemptNoLandingHere
>>16869289we don't have technology to detect objects smaller than a few kilometers in diameter in our solar system.
>>16869289>“But alien life visiting us? No. Impossible. It could never happen.”Name 10 scientists who have said so. On the other hand, Fermi saw no sign of alient visits and considered it strange.>>16869651>we don't have technology to detect objects smaller than a few kilometers in diameter in our solar system.This is wrong. Radars can detect golf ball sized objects in Earth orbit and that is still part of the solar system.
>>16869651Alas, all those missed minivan-sized interstellar probes.
>>16869289Why are they killing the vagina mouth sluttions?
>>16869324if somebody has the tech to break the laws of physics as you know them what makes you think you could even detect their presence if they didn't want to?what if aliens are here, but you can't see them, you can't touch them and you can't detect them in any way?
>>16869651Only inert space rocks. We could easily spot rockets being launched from all the way to Pluto. If any object in space was actually doing anything then it would be incredibly easy to notice. The issue with rocks is that they just aren't doing anything while aliens would be doing something which would make them easy to spot.
>>16869358yet we get bested by metal tools, all it takes is for an alien to release a virus that makes humans engage in their deepest darkest desires, or overtake them with someone elses, it really is that easy human ego is unwarranted and i hope someone out there strikes it down like a whimpering ember
>>16869289Do you realize it’s hard as fuck to travel within space, and what makes you think aliens are smart and nice? They could be as racist, stupid, violent, perverted, religious, crazy and just hate everyone like humans. So it’s unlikely for them to travel light years in the darkness in space to meet us, even if they do come here, their old lives and home planet will be dust anyways.
>>16872401>Do you realize it’s hard as fuck to travel within spaceFor us
>>16872429If we assume the speed of light is a limit it is hard for everyone. If not then we would expect to have visits, but we don't. More evidence of it being the limit.
>>16869306>it's extremely unlikely.Assuming we're a roughly typical example of life rather than some extremely extremely extreme outlier, I don't think it's unlikely aliens much more advanced than us exist and know about us, or at least about life on earth. What is unlikely is that we'd know about an advanced probe sitting somewhere in the solar system monitoring.
>>16876162what’s so funny
>expeted living planets un Universe (known >= 1 due to Earth)E = likely% * locations_in_Universe>expeted times earth visitedV = likely% * likelytospacetravel% * locations_nearby_earth * how_long_earth_visitable
>>16869289https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6H1TxRGLUc>place a garden pea in the middle of your dinner table, a grain of salt at the edge, this is a model of the earth and sun>where is alpha centauri in this model? go about 100miles away, for this guy, dallas and waco>little wonder stars seldom crash
>>16877455the 40k short have you ever seen it, good stuff
The reason most people dedicate so much effort to study the heavens is they dearly want to find alien life. Everyone that's spent years studying it can talk at length about aliens and do so all the time.They´re not going to lie to themselves though and will fully admit it´s all wishful speculation. If you see some comet out there and claim it´s an ET spacecraft and some other guy comes around shows it´s just a comet with data. That guy isn´t doing it to be mean, or suppress knowledge of the existence of aliens. He wants it to be an alien spacecraft more than you can even imagine. More than you want it to be. Because this is probably just a passing curiosity to you and to him it´s his whole life.Every time an anomaly is discovered out there that no one knows what it is- Every single person working on studying it secretly hopes it´s aliens. They´re just never going to make that claim without strong evidence to back it. Especially when it comes to aliens, a few people, and even intuitions like NASA have been heavily embarrassed by jumping the gun before they had sufficient evidence. Nobody wants to get embarrassed by their new claims being proven wrong. For them, it's not about what they want to be true but what they can prove and many will follow the data or be agnostic when there's not sufficient data even when they don't like it.And anyway, the claim isn´t that aliens are not visiting us. Scientists are agnostic on aliens, and many even believe on faith that they´re out there. That´s fine. People believe a lot things that are not backed by data. The issue is there´s insufficient data to give a meaningful answer on this question. There are thousands of scientists that have spent years of their life searching for alien life. And their problem is even if they spent their entire life on this search they wouldn´t be able to check even 1% of the places aliens could be.
>>16878401So they need to optimise where to search to increase the probability on finding them and use their intuition to determine that. Their intuition tells them that searching earth is probably not the optimal place where alien life would be. If you wanted to find a squid, you wouldn´t go to to the Mojave desert to find them. And maybe you could find a squid, especially in an aquarium in the Mojave but it´s hardly optimal. They optimise by searching off planet for many reasons. Do you really want there to be aliens out there more badly than some guy that has dedicated his life to searching for them? If you´re attacking the people looking for them that´s who you´re attacking. Do you really think they don´t want to believe? They´re on your side and want the same thing
they done the math that you didn't. the assumption is that the math is right and that the extreme measures required to make interstellar travel work within those limits would make it not worth it.If we are visited by aliens either physics is wrong or the aliens are hard fucking core
>>16869289Quantum jumping into someone local in the galaxy that took his first alien craft flight, I could see a large number of systems (<70) with life in the red and blue. It was inspirational to understand the relationship between getting people to equalise together in the galaxy. Afterwards we all went home to love the family. That's what I wanted to feel.
>>16869289Anyone who invokes probability in an argument about extraterrestrial life is retarded. We have evidence of abiogenesis occurring exactly one time in the entire history of the universe. It is impossible to draw any trends or conclusions about probability from a single data point. The fact that we have not even been able to recreate this process in a lab honestly suggests that it’s something that for whatever reason could only ever happen once.
>>16878784>We have evidence of abiogenesis occurring exactly one timeThe assumption that it did happen is not evidence of anything (except zealotry)
>>16878784Abiogenesis happened very early in earth's life. There's also significant evidence there was life on mars not "literally zero". There is as well evidence past life on asteroids. What there is literally zero evidence for is multi cellular life off earth, but you spefically said abiogenesis
>>16869289>“Alien life exists elsewhere. The odds are just too good.”The odds are not quantifiable. It is more reasonable to assume there is no life outside earth until compelling evidence suggests otherwise.>B.. But what about all the Earth-like planets that have been discovered??Earth-like does not imply life in the slightest. Venus is technically an 'Earth-like planet' according to the methodology.>But.. But the Drake Equation! And the Fermi Paradox!You can put any probability numbers that you want into the Drake Equation and get any probability you want out of the Drake Equation. The Fermi Paradox is a psychological phenomenon stemming from a heavy, optimistic bias towards life in the face of a lack of quantifiable probabilities or evidence.>No! Abiogenesis happened quickly on Earth! And there are asteroids with amino acids!Abiogenesis is entirely hypothetical, and there is no concrete, step-by-step process that has been given as a coherent whole by which life could have emerged on Earth or in outer-space. Many scientists even criticize abiogenesis, suggesting it is a reasonable assumption that no known, natural process could have produced life in the relatively quick time-window given. It is a fragmentary and irrelevant part of science that is miniscule and receives next-to-nothing in funding.
>>16869289life existing is a confirmed phenomenon.life being capable of interstellar travel is not.
I'm sure abiogenesis happens all the time, it's just existing life forms that eat everything prevent it from developing
there is simple life everywhere as life will form wherever it canmostly plants and fish, maybe insectsbigger animals are rareintelligent life is super rare, like one active race at a time per galaxy with millions of years between it happening
>>16872509Alternate theories or higher understandings don’t matter. If these phenomena are real but not detectable at the energies we have already reached then their practical application must occur at energies that could not be survivable. Otherwise you’re asking us to believe there’s some magical configuration of room temperature powers that presently defies the precision of our instruments of observation and would allow one to throw switches and turn off inertia, create gravity or make space move faster than light without relativistic consequences.
Yeah because mainstream science wouldn't take cash bribes from aliens to tow the company line right.....RIGHT?
>>16878962Not all the variables of the Drake equation unknown. We can approximate worlds per star now. We should be able to approximate habitable worlds per star soon. And the rate of abiogenesis as well when we get more data from worlds in our solar system, and bio signatures on exo planets. I think within the next few decades the only variable that will be completely unknown is the rate of technological life that can communicate
What's with all the deleted posts across the boardDid the mods have another pathetic meltie
>>16878962Genuine question, seeing as how critical you are of the idea of abiogenesis. How do you propose life began on earth?
>>16869289>“Alien life exists elsewhere. The odds are just too good.”>“But alien life visiting us? No. Impossible. It could never happen.”>Are scientists just retarded?.Non sequitur. There is no self-evident connection between the two ideas. Establish and defend your proposition that because life exists, it must follow that such life can travel the stars and visit each other.
>>16885848Not that anon but I have no proposition for how life began on earth. It is in fact quite extraordinary, stupendous even. While I would not, pray I withstand the indignity of even having to say so, go so far as to immediately assign simplistic supernatural causes to it, it defies any currently existing rational explanation, including abiogenesis, as it is commonly understood. Not to get too into the weeds, but just to forestall the typical background arguments one frequently encounters in forums such as this, I am not speaking from a period of superstitious ignorance but rather one more acquainted with the mechanics of biology than most. Evolution by natural selection is one of the sturdiest theories around; it is remarkably beautiful, succinct, evidenced, and demonstrable across a wide spectrum of differing sciences. Abiogenesis is none of those things. It is essentially an ad hoc fallacy that not only cannot be demonstrated, it lacks even the most basic hypothetical links to observed reality. The argument "some matter replicates its structure, therefore life" simply does not hold any real substance to classify it as a legitimate scientific theory.
>>16882293It's still a flawed "equation". Like the anon said, you can put any numbers to fit your bias into it to get any numbers you want out of it. The fact that some of its variables have resolved when even one that is impossible to realistically quantify renders the entire idea scientifically without merit. It is a fun "thought experiment", a good way perhaps to induct beginners and young people into thinking about the universe in mathematical, logic-ruled terms. A sort of baby steps, if you will. But it is not a serious rigorous methodology into predicting anything of actual consequence.
>>16878784>We have evidence of abiogenesis occurring exactly one time in the entire history of the universe.We don't, actually.
>>16869564>artist understands literally nothing of ChristianityChrist on the cross is the symbol of Christianity because it is the psychological manifestation of overcoming the privations and suffering of life itself with the idea that something greater exists, and that the qualitative aspect of life is infinitely more precious to any objective measurement of happiness vs grief. "The worst possible suffering, endured by the person who least deserved it". It is not a simplistic materialist record "a bunch of crazy stuff desert people did"; it IS a description of life. One MUST assume that, IF by some astronomical odds there did exist extraterrestrial life in a physical form remotely similar to ours, staggeringly unlikely though it may be, with a psychology that developed necessarily along the same basic material lines of limited resources and competition ending in eventual death, with a value structure that places life and wellbeing and continuance of the pattern of life beyond the death of the individual, these human ideas must not, in fact, seem alien to them.
>>16885857I just don't find it unreasonable to attribute the origin of life to some as of yet undiscovered mechanisms when any kind of alternative would invokes a supernatural explanation.
>>16885870All training in science leads to this as the only rationally plausible explanation even lacking any direct evidence of even the most permissive speculative hypothesis, yet the magnitude of the "miracle" if life, if I dare to use the term, is so great that it seriously gives the entire enterprise a run for its money. It is really nothing for an eye to develop where once there was only the beginnings of a protocell. The distance between that not-yet-even-a-cell and mere organic compounds is a tremendous number of orders of magnitude greater.
>>16885874I think the idea that "life came from non-life" is just a logical conclusion that most people would arrive to
>>16885880It's what I would call pseudo-logical. It follows the pattern of logic but we lack the necessary components to even begin proving it. It is like a negative space in the shape of logic that we can only presume logic must fit because we have been unable to verify any other scenario that is not itself recursively dismissed by the logic trying to prove itself.Logic tells us we can only accept logical answers for things, but on a fundamental level no axiomatic proof of logic exists, it appears so only by agreement, which is then filtered through biological bias. Try as we might we cannot reach the level of pure logic necessary to unravel the universe. That, in itself, is a truth that flies in the face of logic.
>>16885928There is nothing to suggest that the idea of abiogenesis is illogical.
>>16886397>misinterpreting the postAbiogenesis is precisely an example of something that seems logical breaking down due to the inability for logic to process the magnitude of the claim being made. In short, it's only logical if you don't know anything about it.
>>16869289funny image
