If science was magic, and mathematics was like, the arcane language of magic, going off the D&D schools of wizardry, which field of science would belong to which school?For example>psychology = illusion and enchantment>geology = transmutation and abjuration>physics = evocation and conjuration
>>16870132>conjurationArguably part of psychology. For example, "demons" can be thought of pathologic/malicious memetic structures and "evil" or "demonic" actions are done by victims possesses by these structures.
Science IS magic. The whole wizard trope stems from past scientist aesthetics. Hermetic thought paved way for the foundation of modern science. Science stems from wizardly logic. https://spacedoutscientist.com/2015/06/01/hermeticism-the-nexus-between-science-philosophy-and-spirit/
>>16870140Fuck off schizo, this thread is for lighthearted fun and games not your fucking lack of medications
>>16870140This. There’s a good reason why wizards are associated with building machines to look at the stars. The modern day wizard is just the mad scientist. Hocus pocus is isolated to the realm of psychology, or an art form (ignorance is surely a form of art) much like religion.
>>16870135I can see that. I might also put divination in with physics then. Or possibly economics. I was trying to spread things around but keep it somewhat intuitive.
>>16870144Fuck off and make your own stupid fucking thread about that off topic /x/ shit motherfucking schizo retard. Stop hijacking every fucking thread remotely associated with your fucking delusional bullshit.
>>16870142>history is schizophrenia nowJesus Christ. Magic can’t even exist in fiction beyond the chemistry in the brain. Authors argue over magic systems all the time. It’s inherently one sided. There’s always going to be some angle where it’s “not magic”, or “yes it’s magic”, and once you realize this, you realize magic is more of a psychological position than anything concrete, and often the capital-w Wizard won’t see themselves as such - they’re too transcendent or far too humble for that - similar to how the elves in Lord of the Rings don’t see themselves or their creations as magic. Gandalf isn’t a wizard back home in Valinor. He’s the equivalent of an alien sent down by a prime directive to act the part of a sage.
>>16870148Its fucking off topic FUCK OFF.
>>16870146This isn’t /x/ it’s just basic psychology lol.
>>16870151ITS OFF TOPIC.FUCK OFF.
GOD I FUCKING HATE you schizos so FUCKING MUCH. You wont let anyone have one FUCKING conversation without IRRESISTABLY dragging your STUPID BULLSHIT DELUSIONAL OBSESSION into EVERYTHING YOU ENCOUNTER
>>16870150It’s not. Psychology is science - the softest science of all - but still science. My point is that magic, like power, is a relative affront. Tolkien’s elves look to the wizards the same way humans and hobbits look to the elves. The bar for magic is different for different persons. It’s higher for wizards and lower for elves and men. It’s entirely a case of ‘sufficiently advanced art/tech is indistinguishable from magic’, and even the black machines of Mordor are likened to black magic, due to how horrific and out of the ordinary it is. Sauron is the same species as Gandalf, and goes out of his way to abuse fearful ignorance (the dark side of enchantment), while Gandalf’s abilities are just “spells” (there’s nothing more to it - Gandalf isn’t forming cults like Sauron or the blue wizards). Gandalf uses black powder to create beautiful fireworks to inspire joy and happiness, while Saruman uses it to create weapons of war.
>>16870153Anon he’s just telling you that magic lies in the mind’s eye. It’s perception. This is why you have different types of magic in different types of fiction. This is why you have different types of magic in different types of cultures (even if one culture uses completely different words or interpretations to refer to the same damn thing, like how the miracles and rites of Christians are indistinguishable from witchcraft or magic by any other name). This is why the leading symbol of magic is an eye within a triangle, or a pyramid. Magic’s an angle.
Magic IS the chemistry in the brain going “wow amazing it’s like magic” or “wow are you a wizard” and that feeling a biologist feels when confronting a new species of deep sea life is a form of magic It’s not hocus pocus - that’s just the art or superficial trappings of it. What led to the birth of hocus pocus and religion? What is the recipe for it? If wonder and mystery and horror make such things, then ignorance is the greatest magic of all. It’s a form of art.
Excellent thread Saved for later
>>16870153nta, schizo here, and the most rationalist down to earth man you'll ever meet I believe in: nothing fucking at all
>>16870132>transmutationi'd pose chemistry as being heavily related to that one
>>16870398chemistry was like OG from alchemists trying to turn whatever into gold I've heard countless times
>>16870160And how much more magical is the wizard that transcends the wonder, mystery, and horror. Who wakes and refuses such a mistress. To be in wonder is to be enthralled and employed at her wiles, while the supreme sorcerer has no such meager dignity. And what is mystery but the cloak hiding well-earned disappointment, deserved I may add for those putting in their hours. Many a Buddha veered from the one path, but even they knew the world as maya - ignorance, a veil of deceit. But they believe so long as they were pledged to a monastery and toiling to reject slavery and became slaves. And what horror is more cruel or strange, for wisdom to falter, to be so close and even fail to halt.Chemistry is magic. Energy in is the energy out, such that no work is done or even possible. And the highest sorcerer lives with stillness and triumph like a philosopher chiseled in stone. A monastery in his own right, untainted by such ill likeness of misery.All of this nothing before his greatest alchemy of turning wages to tendies. Yes, even here, in the circlejerk of pseud-scientism, the NEET finds supremacy yet again.
>economicsSchool of divination and enchantment
>>16870422>And how much more magical is the wizard that transcends the wonder, mystery, and horror.— “often the capital-w Wizard won’t see themselves as such - they’re too transcendent or far too humble for that” The beauty/irony of magic, to me, is the one sidedness of it. Perception. The bar. That feeling, yes, but also that humility.
>>16870140Science is not magic.Magic is something outside the laws of nature.E.g. the law of nature is gravity. A magic spell bypasses this law and lets you levitate.And no this is not equivalent to some uber-advanced anti-gravity tech. Because that tech again will be based on the laws of nature, just a deeper understanding.Magic draws its power from some other structure, outside the physical universe and its laws.
>>16870160>>16870422>>16870631Drop a modern day chemist, with all the necessary tools and books, etc, into the past, and suddenly that chemist is seen as a wizard, not to himself; not unless he goes out of his way; but he is effectively a sage by that point. Doesn’t matter if he is middling tier where he comes from. You either put on the pointy hat yourself, or you have others put it on for you. That is the fun of magic. It’s very much just “I know something you don’t know”, “I can do something you can’t do”, etc, and the labels start from there. Even existence is its own stage/magician. The ancients that looked to the stars and the night sky is no different from stage magic logic. It was in essence the science of their time, and it’s an anthropological fact that religion is this precursor to science in purest or rawest observation-theory. They observed stars and theorized them gods. The Tolkien comparisons are apt because he was one of the earliest authors to attempt ‘any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic’ due to his time in the world war (he was convinced the war industry and the horrors of man were indistinguishable from black magic, and the elves represent how we could be making more beautiful things in nature, rather than destroying it). Except the elves are humble about it and the wizards are sages on a mission, or Prime Directive. Modern day humans live in an Atlantean-esque era/environment and they can’t even admit it. The elves can admit it.
>>16870634>Science is not magic.Are you being ironic on purpose? If any sort of hocus pocus functioned, it is automatically science. I don’t care if it’s a misunderstood field. There is definitely a step by step process to the power of ignorance, in truth, such as how religions form, and it can be seen as a soft psychological science. — “science is magic that works” refers to the fact that anything that works at all is a form of science.
>>16870634>muh laws of nature Those are OUR laws. Magic doesn’t defy nature. An alien UFO is borderline magic to us because it defies OUR laws—OUR understanding. Not their’s. The alien pilot is a wizard to us. Magic is one sided. It’s always been the case. Magic has always been “magic”.
>>16870634>Magic draws its power from some other structure, outside the physical universe and its laws.Cute how you think an extra dimensional being would see itself as a wizard. Some do, some don’t. Most would frown upon it. Like humans frowning in disappointment at people lording over ants. Let me ask you this. Would God’s miracles be miraculous to himself? Would He see Himself as God the same way His followers do? Does a human consider himself divine to mice?
Tolkien knew well the tension of technology and the threat of the machine. Tolkien explains the use of magic in his mythos and how it relates to machinery. Tolkien had thought through, with great clarity, the difference between the magic of the elves and that of Mordor.He observes that the hobbits do not understand the difference between the magic powers exercised by the elves and that of Sauron: “the Elven queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word [magic] both for the devices and operations of the Enemy and for those of the Elves.” Tolkien says the lack of a proper word (other than “magic”) for the work of the elves portrays the same confusion in our own minds and mythologies.He goes on to explain the difference: “Their [the elves’] ‘magic’ is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous re-forming of Creation.”Tolkien elucidates the dilemmas we face as technology snowballs and threatens to blow up in our face. Put simply, the magic of Mordor is the machinery of murder. It is the pursuit of power for its own sake, and perceives the natural world merely as a raw material to be exploited, distorted, and destroyed. In the films, we see this in full display as the wizard Saruman destroys Fangorn—chewing up the forest to fuel his machines of war. The realms of the Elves, in contrast, at Rivendell and Lothlorien, are havens of harmony, beauty, and peace created by elven magic.The distinction elucidates our own continued, confused, modern relationship to technology. Do we use our increasingly sophisticated gadgetry and expanding knowledge in an elvish, creative, and artful way to bring light, beauty, and truth to the world, or do we use technology to manipulate, make money, and thus gain more power in the world?
Phones are wands. Apps are spells.
People who think magic is just funny symbols and pentagrams have been brain rotted on media and video games
>>16870653Modern day math and science are so filled with symbolism it would give someone from antiquity an aneurysm.
>>16870663kek
>>16870639>Those are OUR laws. Magic doesn’t defy nature. An alien UFO is borderline magic to us because it defies OUR laws—OUR understanding. Not their’s. The alien pilot is a wizard to us. Magic is one sided. It’s always been the case. Magic has always been “magic”.No it's not.Assuming we had enough intelligence, they could eventually explain their tech.That's the difference.Science is based on logic.Magic is not.
>>16870642Humans can't do magic anon.Lmk when we can hurl fireballs with the power of sheer will and then we 'll talk.
