physics isn't cellular automata, stephen
stop autofellating your dogshit ideas

>>16931036
Phenomena are just a result of the inherent asymmetry in the scaling of infinity.
Infinity as a whole = smooth, uniform, immeasurable.
Within the boundary of infinity = discrete, complex, measurable.
It is all basically just information, though.

>>16931078
>Infinity as a whole = smooth, uniform, immeasurable.
If it is immeasurable, how did you measure its smoothness and uniformity?

>>16931087
It's not measured, it's logically derived from the nature of infinity, similar to a number line. Numbers are discrete measurements of infinity, but infinity itself is continuous (smooth). If you want a physical correlation, consider the near-perfect smoothness of the CMB, the higher the scale, the smoother the field, until it reaches infinity and no longer has any measurable, discretionary properties, because it's essentially beyond the capacity of what a finite reference frame can properly observe.

>>16931092
complete fucking brainrot

>>16931092
>it's logically derived
No, smoothness and uniformity are physical properties derived from measurements taht result in smooth, uniform metrics, you can't "derive" that something is smooth or uniform simply by saying you think it should be smooth and uniform.

> Numbers are discrete measurements of infinity,
I thought you just said it wasn't a measurement?
If they are discrete separate values, then it specifically means that infinity is not uniform or smooth.

>no longer has any measurable, discretionary properties because it's essentially beyond the capacity of what a finite reference frame can properly observe.
Except its smoothness and uniformity since you can say that it is exactly 1 (100%) in both smoothness and uniformity?

>>16931104
You have to separate the concept of infinity from what it encapsulates.
Consider reality as an actual infinity, with expansion being a localized, discretionary, measurable phenomena, while the entirety has no fundamental boundary that can be extended. You can continue traveling through it and never reach the end.
Functionally, every localized expression of this infinity would effectively be a zero in comparison, meaning that any finite measurement you apply is always infinitely removed from the totality itself. This is why smoothness and uniformity aren't measured properties of infinity — they're logical consequences of what infinity is by definition.
>I thought you said it wasn't a measurement.
It's still not a measurement of infinity as a whole. If smoothness is defined by a lack of discretionary properties, then infinity in its entirety would satisfy that defintion, as
as any discretionary property — any distinguishing feature, any boundary, any differential — is by definition a finite, localized phenomenon. Infinity has none of these because it has no external reference frame relative to which internal distinctions could be made determinate.
The number line illustrates this. Seven is discrete. The number line itself is continuous. The discreteness of individual numbers doesn't make the number line discontinuous — they describe different levels of the same structure. Discrete selections from a continuous totality don't fragment the totality itself.
So smoothness here isn't a measurement result of 100% on a physical scale. It's the logical consequence of infinity being the one structure with no external measuring scale applicable to it. Not maximally smooth by measurement — simply outside the domain where physical smoothness measurements apply at all.

>>16931123
>You have to separate the concept of infinity from what it encapsulates.
No, you do since you can't seem to actually separate it from its encapsulating immeasurable purely semantic ideal of smoothness and uniformity.
>Consider reality as an actual infinity,
Ok, so like "reality", it is not actually smooth nor uniform, its just some linguistic ideal that is impossible to fully realize.
>logical consequences
But smoothness and uniformity are not just logical constructs, they are physical properties based on measurable metrics.
>If smoothness is defined by a lack of discretionary properties
That isn't the definition of smoothness though, smoothness is a flat frictionless surface based on 0 deviation between the surface's peaks and valleys.
>as any discretionary property — any distinguishing feature, any boundary, any differential — is by definition a finite, localized phenomenon.
Except of course smoothness and uniformity?
> it has no external reference frame relative to which internal distinctions could be made determinate.
Except of course when judging its smoothness and uniformity?
>The discreteness of individual numbers doesn't make the number line discontinuous
The fact that there is no actual direct line from the number 7 to the number infinity makes infinity discontinuous from the number line.
So smoothness here isn't a measurement result of 100% on a physical scale.
>outside the domain where physical smoothness measurements apply at all.
So you aren't even talking about smoothness, you are talking about something else and calling it smoothness for effect?

>>16931126
Physical smoothness is a measured property of material surfaces. Mathematical smoothness is a logical property of abstract structures established by definition rather than measurement. I'm using the second sense, not the first.

>>16931128
>Mathematical smoothness is a logical property of abstract structures established by definition
The logical definition is still based 0 deviation while infinity has infinite deviation instead.

>>16931130
M>>16931130
athematical smoothness measures local continuity between finite points — no gaps between any two values. It doesn't measure deviation between finite values and infinity because infinity isn't a point within the structure to deviate from. That's a category error — like measuring the distance between seven and the length of the number line.

>>16931133

>It doesn't measure deviation between finite values and infinity because infinity isn't a point within the structure to deviate from. That's a category error
Which is exactly why I have been insinuating that you have been making a category error by calling infinity smooth and uniform since >>16931087.

>>16931137
Then let me rephrase "smooth" as being "continuous" and "uniform" with "symmetric," not as measured physical properties but as a logical consequence of what infinity necessarily is. It's continuous because there's nothingness cannot exist within it to create gaps, and symmetrical because without an external reference frame no transformation can distinguish one configuration from another.
Discrete phenomena arise when finite localizations break that symmetry — producing the asymmetric, measurable, differentiated properties we observe at local scales, which is what I addressed in my initial point.

>>16931147
No, its not continuous either, I already pointed out that infinity represents a complete discontinuity from the number line, even more so than the number 0.
Its not symmetrical either as infinity - infinity doesn't hold up and isn't antithetical to infinity + infinity.
>It's continuous because there's nothingness cannot exist within it to create gaps
So infinity-0 doesn't even hold up?
>symmetrical because without an external reference frame no transformation can distinguish one configuration from another.
Then how can you distinguish it as symmetrically configured rather than asymmetrically, by your claim, wouldn't it be both and neither at the same time since you couldn't possibly be able to distinguish between the two?

The initial point where you basically admitted everything you say is probably misinformation since you can't actual measure any of the information you are positing?

>>16931153
You're right that describing infinity directly imports frameworks that don't cleanly apply to it. That's a genuine limitation I've acknowledged throughout.
But the core argument doesn't depend on accurately describing infinity's intrinsic properties. It depends on the logical relationship between infinity and any finite part of it.
Here's the precise claim — infinity has no preferred points, directions, or scales by definition. No external reference frame exists relative to which internal distinctions could be made determinate. That's not a measurement of infinity's symmetry. It's a logical consequence of what infinity is — the complete totality with no outside.
Any finite phenomenon within infinity is necessarily different from that. A finite phenomenon has a specific location, a specific scale, specific relationships to surrounding phenomena that differ depending on direction and distance. These properties follow necessarily from being finite within an infinite whole — not from any external cause.
That difference between the infinite whole and any finite part is what symmetry breaking describes. The infinite whole has no distinguishing properties. Every finite part necessarily has distinguishing properties. The asymmetry of discrete phenomena isn't imposed from outside — it's what finitude within infinity necessarily is.
The empirical support for this is observable. Reality becomes increasingly discrete and asymmetric at smaller scales — maximum symmetry breaking at the quantum level. It becomes increasingly featureless and symmetric at larger scales — near perfect symmetry in the cosmic microwave background. That gradient from asymmetric discreteness to symmetric featurelessness is measurable without directly measuring infinity itself.
So the symmetry claim isn't about measuring infinity. It's about the necessary logical contrast between an infinite whole with no distinguishing properties and the finite phenomena that necessarily have them.

>>16931154
>he core argument doesn't depend on accurately describing infinity's intrinsic properties.
So your "logical definition" of infinity doesn't actually pertain to any intrinsic property of infinity?
>It depends on the logical relationship between infinity and any finite part of it.
But not clean logic that accurately applies?
>Any finite phenomenon within infinity is necessarily different from that.
Infinity is not within the number line, though, it is a discontinuity more of an asymptote than anything actually on the number line.

>The empirical support for this is observable.
Insanity is also empirically supported, it doesn't mean your insane ramblings are actually true and you have admitted that you can't even distinguish information from misinformation which genuinely limits your ability to reason rationally.

>>16931157
The posts you're replying to reeks of AI in their writing style. Notice sentences structured as "It's not X — it's Y" and frequent use of "—"

>>16931041
go away glowie

>>16931036
i don’t see how any of that isn’t real even if it’s just a bunch of computations

>>16931157
The asymptote point is fair — infinity functions as a limit approached but never reached rather than a point within the number line. That actually supports the argument rather than undermining it. An asymptote is precisely something a sequence approaches without ever reaching — which is exactly the relationship between observable physical phenomena becoming increasingly symmetric at larger scales and the perfect symmetry of infinity itself. The gradient points toward infinity without reaching it. That's the claim.
On the logical definition — the argument isn't about infinity's intrinsic properties because infinity by definition has no intrinsic properties distinguishable from any external reference frame. The argument is purely about the necessary logical contrast between infinite and finite. A finite thing within an infinite whole necessarily has properties the whole doesn't — location, scale, specific relationships. That follows from what finite and infinite mean, not from measuring infinity directly.
The rest isn't an argument.

>>16931163
>infinity functions as a limit approached but never reached
Which means it can't be continuous or smooth or uniform or any of the other nonsensical properties you try to assign to it in the same breath you say it can't possibly have any properties.
>That actually supports the argument rather than undermining it
No, it supports the fact that you don't know what you are talking about or how to assign properties to something you defined as not having properties.
>infinity by definition has no intrinsic properties
So is that an intrinsic property of infinity or not?
>infinite whole necessarily has properties the whole doesn't — location, scale, specific relationships
Then how do you know its properties of not having those properties if it can't have any properties of its own?

>>16931158
Notice how it didn't start out that way and they only started using AI after they realized their original argument was a failure and had to start flailing?
Is this your new gambit to avoid accountability, make a retarded argument, then fall back on AI, then blame AI for your original retarded argument?

>>16931164
You've correctly shown that any description of infinity generates self-referential contradiction — I concede that entirely. Smooth, uniform, continuous, symmetrical — every descriptor imports a framework that doesn't cleanly apply to something that precedes all frameworks.
But this isn't a problem unique to this argument. It's the condition every foundational theory operates under.
Physics can't describe what preceded the Big Bang without importing temporal concepts that only apply after it. Quantum mechanics posits wave functions that can't be directly observed — only their collapsed measurement outcomes. General relativity describes spacetime as the medium within which all physical events occur but can't describe spacetime from outside itself. String theory posits entities operating at scales permanently beyond any possible measurement.
Mathematics can't justify its own axioms without circularity — Gödel proved that any sufficiently powerful formal system contains truths it can't prove from within itself. Logic can't prove the validity of logic without using logic to do so.
Every foundational theory hits the same wall — its most fundamental entity precedes the descriptive frameworks that entity generates, making direct accurate description formally impossible.
The argument doesn't need to describe infinity's intrinsic character to be valid. It needs two things — the logical necessity claim that nothingness is formally incoherent, which was never addressed, and the observable gradient from maximum discreteness at quantum scales to near perfect featurelessness at cosmic scales, which is empirically documented.
You won the descriptive battle. The logical foundation was never touched.

>>16931169
Too bad you aren't trying to prove logic with logic, but instead you are failing to prove that your illogical definition of infinity is logical.

>>16931173
The definition isn't mine — it's standard mathematical and philosophical usage. Infinity as a complete totality with no external boundary is how mathematicians define actual infinity, how Cantor defined the absolute infinite, and how set theorists define proper classes. If that definition is illogical the objection applies equally to established mathematics.
The logical necessity claim — nothingness is formally incoherent, therefore something necessarily exists — was never addressed. That's the foundation the argument rests on.
But here's what's actually interesting. The fact that infinity resists accurate description from within any finite framework isn't a failure of the argument — it's the argument's most important conclusion. Infinity necessarily lacks the discretionary properties that finite observers use to comprehend and describe things. Any finite descriptive framework — including logic, mathematics, and language — is itself a discrete finite system generated within existence. Therefore no finite framework can fully capture what precedes and generates it.
This means a complete grand theory of everything is permanently unobtainable — not because we lack intelligence or better tools, but because any theory is a finite system attempting to fully describe what exceeds all finite systems by definition. Gödel proved this for mathematics. The argument generalizes it to existence itself.
The linguistic difficulty you've been correctly pressing on throughout isn't evidence the argument is wrong. It's the argument demonstrating its own conclusion — that infinity is precisely what finite description cannot capture.

Maybe, or maybe the only way we can represent models is through discrete information and therefore everything looks like a discrete model.

>>16931184
An infinite set is a set x for which there is a bijection from x to a proper subset of x.

>>16931036
>time, distance, dimensions and even fields and particles aren't even real
terms assigned to things observed, or imagined to be observed

>>16931036
what testable predictions does this make?

>>16931683
it can't generate the properties of an electron yet, so i'll have to get back to you on that

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>>16931036
>woah, [thing] is just [equivalent but even more complicated thing]

>>16931961
You're thinking of the bad and incorrect meme known as ((spacetime))