I dont believe in abiogenesis. All the theories on the precursors of true life rely on huge coincidences that could never overcome entropy, and even if you were to grant them these coincidences, theyre still unable to account for all chemical elements occurring.Like really, you need at least 40 genes for life MINIMUM and all those just suddenly come into being from catalytic RNA? Really?And i'm not even a creationist, this just all smells like BS.
>>16958890>could never overcome entropy,kek, he doesn't know
Abiogenesis appears to be extremely rare. As far as we know, it happened exactly once ever. But the thing is, we don't really know what the prerequisites are. Those conditions might not even be present on the current earth, perhaps inhospitable to life as we know it. Or maybe it happens all the time and the precursors just get swallowed up by existing life before it can develop. We just don't know.What we do know is a lot of the building blocks, such as amino acids and lipids, can form abioticly. Fully synthetic lipid "protocells" have been shown to be capable of a form of cell division given a fairly precise ebb and flow of Ph and nutrients. And these lipid bubbles have been shown to provide a stable environment for DNA replication to take place. It can't be called truly synthetic "life" since it's metabolism and replication is fully environmentally mediated. But it would provide a stable platform for evolution to begin occurring. What I'm trying to say is any probability based argument is meaningless here. We don't even know what circumstances we're calculating probabilities for but we do have a solid foundation for what's theoretically possible.
>>16958979You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded. You have faith in something no one has ever witnessed and no one can reproduce in a lab.Just admit evolution is a religion, not a science.
>>16959159What's your scientific alternative to abiogenesis?
>>16959163Science is a method of discerning truth from falsehood using experiments. It is NOT a dogmatic set of beliefs that requires you to recite a creed every morning.Nobody knows how life came to exist because it happened before anyone was born, its too complicated for any technology available to us to begin to understand, and it can't be replicated in a laboratory with experimental methods.We don't know, and that's OK. You dont need to pretend to have an answer to every question, even if people realize you are just making shit up. It means there are still things left for people to figure out. "Science" is not complete and you don't know it all. Religion is actually more honest about this kind of thing when they describe something as a Divine Mystery instead of acting like a know-it-all fag that no one can stand.
>>16959171>Its too complicated for any technology available to us to begin to understand, it can't be replicated in a laboratory with experimental methods.Are you a fucking vitalist or something? Did you just come out of a time machine from the 19th century? Well, you've got a lot of catching up to do.
>>16959159>You have faith in something no one has ever witnessed and no one can reproduce in a lab.I literally cited a laboratory experiment with protocells you retard.
>>16959159Evolution deniers are to Biology what Flat Earthers are to Astronomy.
>>16959171We can extrapolate present data to accurately predict future events. It's something we do every single day.Why is it somehow difficult for retards to understand that we can extrapolate present data to accurately discern past events?
>nobody ever wins the lottery because winning a lottery is unlikely>nothing can temporarily overcome entropythis is how retarded you sound
>>16959201You cited a bunch of horseshit. "Protocells" are not cells, not anything that resembles a cell, and not something that will ever become a cell, even given 6 gorillion years.
>>16959213Admitting that evolution is not science is not the same as denying evolution. One can believe in evolution while admitting that they arrived at their belief through means other than the scientific method.
>>16959243>If I sit in the same spot long enough, random molecules bumping into each other will spontaneously assemble a Sydney Sweeny clone in front of me and she will cook me a stack of pancakesThis is how retarded you sound. Its like you don't understand entropy and think that enough time is a magic wand that can make anything happen.You are full of shit and you know it. If a religious person tried to explain something that way, "perhaps Moses parted the Red Sea by the molecules of the ocean just randomly, accidentally, moving in one direction. Given infinite time and an infinite universe, anything is possible."–you would instantly call bullshit. Whenever someone points out the probability of your theory is near zero, you think you can just say "infinite time" and it is proven.
>>16959246That's quite the bold claim. Got anything to back it up?
>>16959213Evolutionists and astrophysicists are fake scientists. They are science fiction writers that larp as scientists.Do you want to know what we call real scientists? Engineers. They have to create products that actually work, not sit around and dream about what life was like on planet Reptar 400 million years ago.
>>16959213Evolution is fine, the problem is abiogenesis
>>16959253I don't need to back up my assertion because I'm not the one making the claim, you are. You say "protocells", which are just oil droplets in water, could eventually become cells. OK. So show me. Show me how it happens even with you manipulating every variable to make a process that is supposed to be spontaneous happen by brute force. But you can't because Jülicher’s model of the protocell has never been shown able to contain chemical reactions–it is theorized but has never been demonstrated experimentally.If you make an outrageous claim, that given enough time a cheese wheel will spontaneously form into an airplane and fly away–it is up to YOU to demonstrate how that happens, not up to me to prove it doesn't.Do you want to know how I know Chicago pizza isn't pizza? Because you call it deep dish pizza. Do you know what we call pic related? Pizza.Do you want to know how I know protocells aren't cells? Because you call them protocells, not cells.
>>16959264>I'm not the one making the claim, you are.You said "they never will become cells." That is a positive claim that you need to back up. If you had said "I'm not convinced they will," that would be a different story.The evidence supporting the claim that they could become cells is induction. These are lipid membranes capable of reproduction in particular environments and hosting DNA replication. That much has been empirically shown. If the DNA can replicate, it can replicate with variation. If the DNA can replicate under this set of conditions, then this set of conditions is subject to the same evolutionary process which all life is subject to.Now that I have presented my evidence that protocells could potentially become cells, I have infinitely more backing up my claim than you do yours.
>>16958890>I only believe in entropy when I want and would never actually apply it to the magical demons theory I am definitely trying to prove.>Like really, you need at least 40 genes for life MINIMUM and all those just suddenly come into being from catalytic RNA? Really?So basically, you are saying that you know it is definitely mathematically possible, but you think low odds means the same as completely impossible which makes you also believe cliches like lightning can't strike the same person twice?
Men do not reason their way to atheism with clean hands. They desire its conclusions and work backward to its premises. Then they have the audacity to call this "science".
>>16959288Thank you for posting this. Today is the day to turn from my sins. I pray that God will have mercy on me, a sinner.
>>16959288Sure, you totally met god and didn't just learn about your own limitations and mortality then cope with it by leaning into some audacious premise of an immortal all powerful magician who will totally save you the exact moment you die.>two more sins and the billionaire pedos ruining the world will totally get punished
>>16958890https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r53u0mjnFOchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQHRmnTU1jwwatch these two and then come back to me
>>16959369Doesnt really explain it, because viruses just hijack much of the required cellular machinery from their host.
Abiogenesis isn't even a theory it's just something that had to happen at some point
>>16959491>had to happen at some pointWhy?
>>16959512Life used to not exist and now does exist
>>16959514What if life existed before the big bang and was brought to this new universe?
>>16958890The Miller-Urey experiment showed how amino-acids form on their own. Scientists have also managed to make self-replicating RNA like QT45. The gap for abiogenesis to cover really isn't that big, and it's pretty consistent with how we observe everything in the world demonstrating complexity arising out of simplicity.
