How do butterfly pupas in a chrysalis know not to damage their brains during hystolysis? When their whole bodies get melted by stomach enzymes, that is. Does the ecdysteroid 20-hydroxyecdisone act as a sort of preservative, waiting to map its rewired nervous system onto its new body? I've researched for several hours and am still lost as to how these insects isolate the brain from the rest of the destructive metamorphosis process.
>>16960366The hormone, ecdysone, triggers apoptosis in the majority of the caterpillar's body, including most of the brain. However, ecdysone receptors come in many types. While most of the ecdysone receptors stimulate apoptosis, others inhibit it. So the tissue that survives metamorphosis just has one type of receptor and not the other.
>>16960366What the other anon said, apoptosis is only triggered in certain (most) tissues. The dead cells are then broken down by hemocytes, and that waste get digested. Surviving cells are generally protected from the enzymes through IAPs, but neurons are particularly vulnerable, so on top of that the neural system contracts and get sheathed in glial cells when they get the signal from ecdysteroids (the glial cells themselves will phagocyte some of the neural leftover.)The pupa shell and the tracheal tubes survive because they're made of/lined with chitin.Also, ecdysteroids inversely tell the cells in the imaginal discs to get growin'.
>>16960366>know not to damage their brains during hystolysisIt liquifies and is totally destroyed.
>>16960429Incorrect. Certain parts of the brain are preserved through the entire process.
>>16960432>Michael Levin, a biologist at Tufts University, uses the caterpillar-to-butterfly metamorphosis to illustrate that memories and learned behaviors can persist even when the physical brain is completely dissolved and rebuilt.>"So, the memory persists, even though the brain is basically completely taken apart, dissolved – most of the cells die." - Michael Levin
>>16960437Arizona State University:>What is especially interesting is that the brain cells that aren't completely broken down are mostly the ones that send signals to the muscles to tell them to move. So even though the muscles in the caterpillar and butterfly are different, many of the brain cells that signal those muscles in the caterpillar will remain the same through metamorphosis and signal the new muscles in the butterfly. https://askabiologist.asu.edu/questions/butterflys-brain-same-one-it-had-when-it-was-caterpillar
>>16960437>is basically completely taken apart, dissolved>>16960440>Arizona State University>Actually most of the parts (tissue) that we would call the brain in a caterpillar is broken down during metamorphosis and rebuilt in the adult butterfly.Hmmm...>>16960429>It liquifies and is totally destroyed.A little hyperbolic, but not in the ways of Cognition.>the brain in a caterpillar is broken down>is basically completely taken apart, dissolvedLooks about the same to me.>>16960432>Incorrect. Certain parts of the brain are preserved through the entire process.I had no doubt some parts did stay the same as they wouldnt need to change, because life would do that because of Physics.
>>16960440https://youtu.be/67hUe0LAz-o
>>16960437>>16960537How the hell would we know it retains memories? Did they ask it?
>>16960366>When their whole bodies get melted by stomach enzymes, that isThis is sort of a common misconception. Their entire body isn't melted. In fact, the wings of a caterpillar are already partially formed before they go into their cocoons, and if you cut the caterpillars open (rip) you'll see them. There was a nice PBS video on youtube i saw about it, that one bug channel with the soft talking woman. The restructuring of a bug during holometabolism is evidently selective, and not done with wanton disregard of important structures. Like, why would it destroy the wings or the brain? As for HOW, it's like when youre body goes through repair and restructuring. There's definitely some sort of chemical signal that tells enzyme-bringing cells where to avoid and where to go. That's very vague, but it's general. Bad microbes are tagged, and the tagging attracts body cells to take action.I'm sure you could look up some research papers on the exact chemicals that people research that they believe go into holometabolism for signaling and destroying and building
>>16960584>How the hell would we know it retains memories? Did they ask it?The exact same way you would a hueman patient sans audible linguistics, how Psychologists deduce levels of sanity in patients (though its a little more on the end of Cognition which is why its applicable across species, planaria, butterfly, or hueman.)Dont play God. Work God. Overtime.B^)
>>16960584>>16960967Anyone want to give an actual answer?
>>16961037That IS *THE* answer you illiterate dunce...why are you on /sci/¿The answer is science BEYOND YOUR DUMB ASS to explain, but you seem to want it to fit inside the box of your ignorance.Richard Dawkins' book was called "Selfish Gene". Selfish is a Psychological term, Gene is a Chemistry term. Molecular Psyché.
>>16960366>butterflyMonarch butterfly is called that because when it is born it makes a trip it hasnt before, but knows where to go. This is same for a type of hueman. It "ascends" like a prophet then "pursues some quest that previous ones have built upon".(Royal) We. It "awakens" and "remembers" things never told to it. Same-same, but different. Thats why I study this, it happened to me.Ive studied this beyond any dunce from the University of Arizona has, my citation as well, our citations (for this specifically) are vastly more than UoA.Specifically, memory and perception.
>>16960366>brainsBecause youre still in "brain centric" perspective, and thats not whats the cool professors do these days...hella lame as shit.https://youtu.be/aQEX-twenkA
>>16960366>waiting to map its rewired nervous system onto its new bodyRevelation 13:3Thats what this is talking about, same thing, Regenerative Medicine of the BioPhysics level, inter-organ Cognitive disharmony/symbiosis, and this researcj has changed Physiology for M.D.'s.Thats why Michael says that about M.D.'s...this changes a lot and it will take decades for people to catch up...and in that time I will complete more works.Hah...race ya.
>>16960366>ecdysteroid 20-hydroxyecdisoneThis is missing the forrest among the trees. This may only be an intermediary step with others associated with it.I did a meta-analysis of all the Pyschological profiles in my head combined to make a tree of life of various gene expressions of huemans around the world. Reverse engineering them as much as I can to formulate a detail 4-D map across time. No need to DNA tests, just good ol' Phrenology. :^)>am still lost as to how these insects isolate the brain from the rest of the destructive metamorphosis processWhy? Its itself, the organism it aware of what should be "its body" and then its only a matter of Chemistry (I suspect polatity) to keep things balanced internally. No different than stomach acid or anything else.
