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If I had any form of a network maybe I wouldn't have to ask slopbots for appraisal of my competitiveness in various sectors. Maybe that in itself is the answer to how competitive I really am.

>graduate with bachelors in chemistry
>go straight to work in a lab
>no debt, 20k in the bank from current job
>job however has 0 career advancement
>area is pretty shit for a young man (its all retirees)
>want to move somewhere else
>economy is so shit every position gets filled within a week
>even with 2 years of experience I get nothing but rejections from better jobs
Should I just get my Masters and try to leapfrog to a better position elsewhere? I feel stuck at a shitty job I can't leave with the economy sucking so much.

>>17020868
PhD in chemistry, then go into industry, make mad stacks

Should I even try for a math phd? Are the news articles for AI making discoveries in math overblown?
It sounds so disheartening when it feels like a math phd will mean a career as an ai prompter and verifier or more likely: no career at all
I just like math man

>>17020901
If AI can do a mathematician's job, AI can do anyone's job. I have decided to just go with the whatever happens and then kill myself when there is no path forward. I can't begin to fathom how much worse the world is going to get. I have lost all will to live.

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>>17020901
New technologies can impact the practice of mathematics. If you were a human calculator at heart, the advent of the computer made your dream job useless. Mathematical research will continue, one way or another. If AI is truly a good tool (something that remains to be seen), it might mean a leap to a much more "advanced" and "complex" mathematics than we know today. All of this also depends on whether AI meets economic expectations. If it's really a bubble, companies will no longer be interested in spending millions of dollars on proving theorems. That is, only a small group of mathematicians will have access to the supercomputers necessary for mathematical research, and there will be a need for "outdated" mathematicians. For now, AI hasn't done much more than produce a few scattered results and little else. Ironically, AI companies are among the most interested in hiring mathematicians.

>>17020901
>Should I even try for a math phd?
No!!

>>17020901
No they’re not overblown but mathematics as a field is being used as a marketing tool. Put it this way, do you really think we spent hundreds of billions per company at a minimum to solve some conjectures in mathematics? We wouldn’t even do that for the Riemann hypothesis.
At the same time, it’s almost certainly true this will be one of the first careers to be outright obliterated by LLMs. If they can do mediocre work, soon they’ll do good work, then great, and there’s no reason they can’t do amazingly high quality work. The idea they’ll remain assistants is cope because it’s very painful to people to be faced with the reality that there are very wealthy people who are gleefully making it impossible for them to pursue their passion, while simultaneously making the market so bad that there is probably no way to pivot out either.

Hi anons, am I crazy for thinking about a PhD in Physics after a Physics master's degree (I'm in Europe) and then three years in industry as a software engineer? I got this great feeling of nostalgia and the idea that if I don't do it now when I am still young I may regret it in the future... Do you think it would be doable? My field is cosmology, I would like to study the more theoretical aspects of it.

>>17021158
Yeah sure. Join the legion of the damned we need another guy on here bitching and moaning about how their diaper has autism and they can't get a job

>>17021158
Oh yeah theoretical cosmology is well known for employability in the theoretical cosmology industry

>>17021162
>>17021164
Well the goal would be an academic career afterwards, and anyways I think that with 3+ years of software engineer job and a PhD with a focus on computation and programming it won't be hard to find another SWE job outside academia if needed. But thanks for the reality check, I think I need it.

>>17021162
lmao

>>17021169
You should also look into becoming a european patent weenie, since youre living in fuckin lala land

>>17021158
So you worked 3 year after your MSc without applying to PhDs? It is not 2018 anymore. Not just any idiots can get into a PhD program in physics.

>>17021399
the secret sauce for this has always been to rejoin your thesis group. They take you no question asked if you did semi well. As my prof always used to say its your problem if you want to do a phd he only provides ideas, funding and equipment. And connections I guess.

>>17021433
Everyone knows this and assumes if you stayed with your masters group for your PhD you're a bit shit.

>got BS in biology in May
>put in over a hundred applications so far with zero success
I'm gonna be applying to a PhD program in September. Fuck this.

>>17021169
Sorry, your idea is finding an SWE job won’t be hard after more than 3 years of continuous advancement of LLMs? After you just watched LLMs in only a few months demonstrate mathematicians may not even have any career path at all in that time? And you think SWE, already being wiped out by LLMs, will not be hard in 3 years why exactly?
I think you would be better off making sure you have a grip on your own sanity than making any career decision at all right now.

>>17021676
That's how it be in biology. And chemistry. And physics. And probably engineering in 10 years.

>>17021683
On the other hand, he is currently a SWE. If he wants to get out before LLMs get even better, I would get out sooner rather than later.

>>17020901
There's always teaching

>>17021399
I applied to some PhDs just after my MSc in 2023, and I was admitted to two but they were on pre-determined topic that I did not like and I rejected them (I was also not really convinced by the supervisor). And then I started working and life happened, and I did not apply for the following three years.

>>17021433
>>17021476
I really liked my supervisor, but the research group itself is focusing on experimental cosmology and I am more interested in theoretical aspects. My supervisor also suggested me not to apply there, since there had been bad experiences with PhDs in the group before (not with him specifically) and a couple other reasons.

>>17021683
>>17021734
Returning to the SWE career would be a plan B if academic career does not go well (which I am aware is a very concrete possibility). Besides, I use LLMs daily and I believe they are extremely useful and have changed the SWE profession but I don't think they will replace us. Someone who understands the technical aspects and can coordinate the work of the agents converting the requirements into software architecture etc will always be needed. Surely it will replace many coders who don't really know what they are doing, but I am quite confident in my skills to believe that I won't be one of them. Maybe I'm wrong, life will tell us.

>>17021741
You seemed to have mastered the first important skill to be successful in academia: be delusional and in denial. You only need to work on the second part, shameless self-promotion.

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>>17021741
I don't know what you're talking about, but I and most of my friends lost our jobs as SWEs. We were replaced by AI. My friend got a PhD in physics in Austria and now works as a warehouse worker.

I think you'd be better off not thinking about a PhD, but retraining as a plumber, electrician, welder, and other blue-collar workers. Those are the only jobs there are now.

>>17020901
No. Math is fake and gay.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone going to study mathematics in 2026 without any irony.

>>17021780
>I think you'd be better off not thinking about a PhD
This is good advice for everybody. Just get a BEng degree.

>>17021783
>Just get a BEng degree

It depends on the country. In some places, a BEng degree is still a good choice, but Europe is experiencing rapid deindustrialization, and engineers are also having trouble finding jobs, given the fact that major automakers, chemical manufacturers, and metallurgical plants are laying off workers en masse. It's not just large companies that are going under, but also smaller ones, even family-run businesses employing 50-100 people. This is also negatively impacting not only the economies of Germany and France, but also all of Eastern Europe, because our economies are tied to them, and many factories and manufacturing facilities are actually part of German corporations.

Only the defense industry is keeping all this shit afloat.

Some of my friends were able to transition from mechanical engineering to SWE after being laid off, and then they were replaced by AI engineers this year.

In Europe, getting any education other than healthcare is generally not worth it right now.

>>17021786
I do think defense industry will be going strong for years.

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In the US, universities are being removed as gatekeepers of research grants.

>>17021807
How is this good news? It just means more money for the AI scam.

>>17021809
It's not. Anyone which knows how research grants get spent by private industry knows how much they actively defraud the government. It's standard practice at some defense contractors to never reuse equipment for different projects, so they repurchase millions of dollars of oscilloscopes and VNAs for every individual grant and then just have warehouses full of mostly unused equipment that just sits there for decades. The indirect costs are also usually higher and much more needs to be allocated to salary since people aren't being paid grad student slave wages.

>>17021788
>>17021786
I would be wary of defense sector anything the EU touches ends up being a moneyhole if this happens to the defense industry it will just be costs and no jobs. In germany for example they can pick their people and they do not hire newgrads.

>>17021807
Funding directed to individuals and specific research groups has existed forever. The idea with funding universities is that academics get to decide what research is worth funding. Removing that means increasingly placing researchers under the thumb of government administration directly, with all the politics and instability that comes along with that.

The bit about AI use presumably just means this is another way to funnel public funds to Trump-adjacent tech oligarchs.

>>17021820
>The idea with funding universities is that academics get to decide what research is worth funding.
Which is a political process run by the most spiteful vicious midwits in existence.
>Removing that means increasingly placing researchers under the thumb of government administration directly, with all the politics and instability that comes along with that.
Implying they're not already under the thumb of spiteful midwit academics who dole out funds based on ideology and personal relationships. At worse, this change just puts different names in charge of the process. More likely, things are about the same but with one less layer of grifters involved. Of course if you're one of the midwit academia administrators whose career depends on being a parasite and your self worth comes from having this unearned gatekeeping position, yes, you might be unhappy that you're being excluded.

>>17021809
Checked Retraction Watch lately? We are already scammed through and through.

Should I try getting CS PhD after 3y break working as SWE? One issue I have is that I don't really know what the topic should be. Should I go to the uni that offers predefined topics or try somehow coming up with an idea for it?

How did the PhD anons here choose their topics?

>>17021884

I have a master's degree in CS from a European university. I've also been thinking about a PhD and would probably like to do something related to distributed systems, but I don't know what exactly. My master's thesis is partially related to distributed systems, but my professor doesn't have any PhD students (only bachelors and masters - yes, that's a common situation in my country). And it's unlikely I'll be able to develop my master's topic into a dissertation.

I also know that today, CS is almost entirely consumed by AI, LLMs, and transformers. Anything outside of these areas is almost completely underfunded and of no interest to anyone.

As a result, I'm just working as a SWE and waiting for AI agents to finally replace me. After that, I'll probably commit suicide or get a job as a janitor.

>>17021900
Yeah I did my masters in AI (also Europe), but the only outcome of it was that I'm absolutely not interested in it - or at least the training part of it. What I like the most is probably getting most performance out of programs I write, so for me it's probably HPC or some systems research.

Any specific university that you have in mind to attend? I'm wondering if choosing my local uni where I did masters is a good choice, though maybe Po(or)land isn't the best place to do a PhD.

> As a result, I'm just working as a SWE and waiting for AI agents to finally replace me. After that, I'll probably commit suicide or get a job as a janitor.

I was thinking about gathering metal junk and selling it, if I ever lose my job.

>>17021884
>How did the PhD anons here choose their topics?
Basically I did my MSc in algebra and applied to all PhDs related to algebra. Topic was largely guided by my prof's research and expertise.

I'm starting a master's degree in nuclear engineering this autumn
I'm 36 years old already and it's a 2 year program
I want to focus on reactor simulations and modelling

am I too old to have a possible good career in industry? I'm having second thoughts every minute thinking about it

>>17021990
>Master's degree
>Engineering
>Some idea of what you want out of it

Good signs, at least. Our standard here is someone in their mid-30s wanting to spend 8 years doing a PhD in esoteric sigilism with a current vibe of doing something with flowers afterwards.

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How many applications have you put in over the last year with zero success? I can't be the only one spinning my wheels.

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Is anyone else an independent scientist?
I quit my job a couple of weeks ago and have been working like 6 days a week on computational/bioinformatic stuff. I want to freelance but don't have clients yet because my professional network fell through based on some bullshit. Luckily I have enough runway on my own to make it through 6 to 12 months, enough time to shitpost a bunch on arXiv. I have a PhD and worked at an R1 for a few years.

I'm a mathematician (masters in maths) and doing another masters in physics after being sick for years
I am not sure in what I should specialise i have not done much physics before. I know I like optics so photonics could be cool, I like molecular dynamics and more theoretical chemistry stuff (and biophysics too by extension), and I also like atomic physics.
I don't really know if I should follow the computational physics courses since I'm already very proficient at coding and stuff, and I think I need more experience in just physics.
Are there any fields I should look toward? Place I'm gonna study is a big hub for quantum computing but idk I don't really vibe with quantum engineering and semiconductors and stuff

>>17022328
If you want a job do anything laser or optics related. Thin films, semiconductor and condensed matter is very cool but its unemployable for physicists unless you do a internship and get contacts. Optics everyone will want you regardless of previous experience.
t. long time neet after master

>>17022357
>If you want a job do anything laser or optics related. Thin films, semiconductor and condensed matter is very cool but its unemployable for physicists unless you do a internship and get contacts. Optics everyone will want you regardless of previous experience.
Yeah the main thing is I do not want to leave physics afterwards. What kind of job can you get in optics afterwards? I do intend to do a PhD. From what I understand all the fields I'm considering are pretty good regarding jobs (maybe theoretical chemistry less but it's linked to pharma and in silico pharmaceutical research), biophysics seems like it'd be super fruitful. The uni I'm going to is very well regarded where I'm from (one of the two best engineering schools in the country and in the region) so that'll help but it is definitely applied physics first and foremost.
I'm not gonna do theoretical physics or astrophysics anyway because I'm not stupid, I have a master in pure maths I know how that ends up lol
I was very much looking into chemical physics because that seems like some place most students don't go into with lots of jobs. Whereas photonics have a dedicated engineering master's that is ee focused. So idk if I'd be super competitive vs them except in research which is super quantum computing here.

>>17021819
Defense sector IS hiring broadly TODAY. In 4-5 years, who knows?

>>17022383
You sound retarded

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>>17022397
You sound like you are a woman, jew, redditor or brownoid

>>17021990
34 here about to start a masters in biotech with a focus on drug production. Yours is not a rare path, my friend. Most people I've met so far at uni in the same field are around my age trying to change or advance their careers.

30 years old here about to start jerking my shit with a focus on cumming fast

>>17022383
You didn't read the FAQ, evidently. To quote:

>Many work as a TA as a PhD student. This can be useful experience and also a source of income. In today's problematising climate it can also be a source of accusations of impropriety, even decades later. During a discussion in this general the following steps were recommended to protect yourself:

>never date a female you work with as a TA
>never be alone with a female as a TA, see if you have several persons in at the same time or turn it into some form of group work
use the Billy Graham rule
>if it is legal, record everything, simply to establish an alibi and that nothing wrong happened
>make sure you are in a room with glass wall so that lots of people can see you at all times. Get someone to check in on you, asking of you need more coffee is a good alibi.
>keep the record and notes, especially after you leave, we have already seen that an accusation can come 20 years down the road.

>We try to avoid doomer postings here, but one anon reported he had been fired from an internship due to accusations. Do not take this lightly. An accusation 20 years later is one you cannot defend yourself against, it will be her words against yours, unless you follow the advice here.

At least you were not reported to the police. Always look on the bright side. Remember to keep all records in case she accuses you of something serious 20 years from now.

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>>17022426
Yeah the bright side is realizing that I'd rather try and fail as a woodworker with my old man than play estrogenated game of thrones and academic whoring. Worst part is I'm the ops tech and it's literally my job to assemble field instruments, what's more appalling is that when I asked my PI what our priorities as a business are she outright stated that if we don't cater to the student experience even if they are dogshit at their jobs we will lose funding. What a blackpill, I genuinely thought we are responsible to other scientific stakeholders for the data uptime and whatever but nah. Let women ruin the west I don't care.

Take this tired old kekistani chudshit back to /pol/ 10 years ago pal in this thread we are WOKE and like it.

>>17022409
>woman,
Yes
>jew,
Yes
>redditor
I lurk sometimes
>or brownoid
Yes
You still sound retarded thoughever

Why didn't you just tell the female student to carefully document and record everything so it would be easy to fix later if needed? Sounds like a you problem. Basic leadership skills.

>>17022464
Yeah dude is a bad teacher and doesn't even want to be academia, he gets told he needs to change his methods, and ge spazzes out about cultural marxism and how he wants to become a blue collar monkey
Why should anyone take him seriously lmao

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>>17022464
>>17022465
Listen up you slack jawed faggots, I went from industry into this job, I have no delusions of grandeur like you. Excuse me for injecting some life into this graveyard with my personal anecdote.

>>17022475
>ooh aah
Go cut wood monkey

>>17020803
So what should I do if looking for my first job? I have a degree in physics and a masters in optics, where should I search? I don't even know which places would be interested, and it seems everyone is looking for phds, which I don't have

>>17022488
spray and prey online applications. go to interviews. accept offer if any.

>>17022508
yeah, but how do I know where to look?

I just got my BS but I wasn't able to do any undergrad research. I've been applying to labs for the last few months with no luck. Should I just apply for PhD programs without any lab experience or what?

I'm in my 30s with plenty of non-STEM work experience. Will schools think that can be as good a candidate as a kid with little life experience but lucked into a lab?

>>17022512
LinkedIn, Indeed, whatever you can find. Spray and prey anything with physics or engineering.

>>17022513
Why not do a masters? That'll beef up your application for a PhD. Walk before you run.

>>17022545
Ew if you do a master's in the US you have to pay for it.
Always try to get into a PhD program and if you don't like it master's out.
You'd have to apply for low tier schools with no research experience, like UC Merced or something. Otherwise, get an internship at a big corporate lab and try to make connections with an academic PI somewhere. That's basically what I did and I'm dumb as a bucket of fuck.

>>17020868
I'm in the chemical process industry, US gulf coast. We cannot hire fast enough right now. Lots of open positions all around for process operators, engineers, chemists, lab technicians. This retarded war has been a bonanza for American chemical manufacturers.

>>17022711
Do you drive a truck? I would do anything to live in somewhere as incredible as Galveston, TX

>>17022720
Why the hostility? For a bachelor's degreed chemist, a job in chemical manufacturing is a solid career option. I miss out on the glitz and glamor of grinding away in academia, but 165k a year in a low cost of living area making new kinds of soap for oil wells or whatever is fine by me.

>>17022426
The post was deleted so idk what this is about but as a postdoc I just fucked the masters student before peacing out to industry. But for a few months stress level were through the ceiling and also had feelings and wanted to die for a while.

Anyway I recommend everyone moves into the woods and shoots on sight.

>>17022732
Anon is just being autismal. Academia has a few real upsides but the glitz and glamor, if any is present, is borrowed and not yours. For a schizoid spending their life between work and home it does not matter if the trendiest restaurants in downtown New York are not within walking distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9bny7VDI5U

>>17022711
I wish I lived in the US. There's barely any jobs here in Cucknada. Do you think they'll hire on a TN?

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It's over

>>17022732
I wasn't even being funny I want to drive a truck and live in the Houston metro area, what the fuck is wrong with that?

1. Nothing wrong with me
2. Nothing wrong with me
3. Nothing wrong with me
4. Nothing wrong with me

>>17022972
Yo where's Kel lol

can someone help me decide what a good entry wage is in Germany as a physicists grad with zero experience? I see posts saying 65k (mid size corp) is normal and then in interview they laugh and say no way 53k is max. What the fuck?

>>17023021
If you have zero experience you should just take what they offer you.

>>17023021
You're in EU, salaries for engineers and scientists don't even end up that high often lol

>>17023024
It was just salary expectation field and I just entered the number google said would be fine.
>>17023025
I would expect at least E13 thats what you get paid everywhere in academia for entry roles minus the usual 20% but still base pay is high. Hell being a teacher gets you 63k. 48k is E10 at most which is bullshit if you adjust for inflation. I never knew what a ripoff working is.

>>17023038
Europe and UK have shitty stagnant salaries in engineering, science and tech for every sector that is not software. Accordingly, if you are capable and ambitious and STEM-oriented in Europe, you will either move to the US or switch to a career track like management or another sector entirely.

Then you get a workforce full of midwits doing the jobs and endless layers of useless middle managers. And you can see why innovation and growth comes from other countries and all that's left to do here is to regulate and push paper.

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What to do if you absolutely hate your work tasks and colleagues?

>>17022980
Lmao sorry my man I read that as sarcasm. I used to live in Houston and it was common to clown on Galveston for being stinky or whatever. I do like Galveston actually, but the beaches are kind of gross. Houston has it's good and bad like anywhere else. I did like living in The Woodlands the most, although many might call it boring.

>>17021169
You do know the odds, don't you?

>>17023138
Quiet quit. Do the bare minimum. Reduce all standards you have.

The average toilet cleaner in Europe has two master's. In USA, you only need a bachelor to get $200k+. I realize that cost of living is higher, but it seems a bit unfair.

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> FPGA Developer (m/f/d) for optical measurement technology and high-tech systems
are these numbers fake or real? Am I really competing with 128 people for a entry level job? How are there even 128 people that know fpga + optics well enough to apply for a entry level job.

I want to live in a census designated place and order the pingas burger at the cheesecake factory

>>17022972
>why not ask "how do we live in a world where humans are not better at anything?"
because we don't want to hear the answer: "we don't"

I graduate in February. When should I start looking for a job?
>inb4 right now
but now I'm less likely to get a good job since they don't know if I'll finish, and I won't be able to send the cv again when I graduate if I already did before

>>17023321
do a internship even if you have one already. Search at the same time it doesnt matter if you finish.

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Did you stop being a worthless incel after getting your PhD? I got mine half a year ago but this past month I've been on vacation which I've spent back at home and my mom is mad at me for yelling and raging at the computer when my game lags or I die in some stupid way

>>17023321
you should still spam out applications right now because sometimes they take months to process them. even if you're a good fit and everything is done they will often spend 3 months or more jerking you off through 5-6 interview stages

>>17023464
What a loser omg kys
Was your phd in comp sci nerd

>>17023301
you are competing with 30 other students from a similar background and 100 jeets who just spam apply everything
>>17023021
I recently got an offer for 86k in Munich as a fresh PhD codemonkey (robotics company), told them to get fucked because I'd be even more broke than I already am in my eastern euro shithole

so based on that your offer sounds kinda realistic

>>17023468
>kys
wish I had the guts

>>17022117
took me 120 applications to get 3 job offers over about 4 months, but that's with a PhD and relevant experience in a "hot" field.

it helps to understand that any public job listings are basically their backup line of recruitment, usually when a job posting goes up they'll have recruiters reaching out to people and only look at whatever creatures crawl through the front door if they don't have a list of candidates in the funnel already.

>>17023091
>you will either move to the US
that is basically impossible nowadays and has been for like 5 years already. of course if you're some 1 in a million genius at ETH/EPFL you might get a spot but those kinds of people don't post in this thread.

>>17023483
I could have gone to EPFL but I hate the Swiss they're assholes

>>17023483
>but those kinds of people don't post in this thread
Depends on what you mean. 1 in a million geniuses, probably not. ETH grifters, definitely yes. Do not confuse credentials with competence.

For what it's worth the sorriest excuse for a scientist I ever saw is a professor at EPFL. Absolute fake-it-till-you-make-it snake oil salesman with minimal skills or knowledge in science, just pure networking and grift, producing the most rapidly successful academia speedrun I ever witnessed.

>>17023231
American here. I got my BSc in May and have been putting in ~5 applications every day since my graduation. Haven't had a single interview. I did undergrad research, cadaver dissection, heavy graduate level course load focused on infectious disease and pathology, etc. I'm also a White male, so my chances are destroyed by that even further.

I depend on this general to feel better about having blue collar gainful employment whilst trying to find a fucking job that my DEGREES trained me for.

They are giving me Havana syndrome, all for the crime of trying to self actualise while me

>>17024351
my brother in christ. trump is president and you're still blaming being a white male for your inability to get a job?

>>17024351
furthermore, your description of your skills on this post tells me everything i need to know about why you're getting rejected
>I did undergrad research,
literally meaningless. pretty much everyone in your discipline does this, and the quality of the "research" is babby first step in science. it's no different from an independent study.
>cadaver dissection,
literally part of your class work
>heavy graduate level course load focused on infectious disease and pathology
nobody gives a flying fuck. you have a complete lack of skills. where is your shadowing experience, which mind you all your peers are doing here? where are your poster presentations, paper publications, and club experience? you did join your major's university's club, right? did you run for officer positions? no, you didn't. i don't blame you for not knowing this shit, but surely someone must have told you how to maximize your opportunities? professors do this all the time, especially if you work closely with them.

see the point i'm getting at? everything you communicated, at the surface level, sounds promising. however your lack of specificity toward actual skills (leadership from clubs, work coming to fruition through papers or posters, hands-on experience through shadowing, etc.) reveals you were just a coursemonkey who didn't learn anything valuable enough to hire.

that being said, you do have the skills to apply for a master's program. potentially a phd program if you're lucky.

>>17024760
>hands on experience through shadowing?
You mean all the shadowing and volunteering I've done through hospitals, actual wet lab experience throughout all of university, research presentation at uni conventions, being executive in clubs, and networking with PhDs and MDs, alongside working the whole time in a mechanics based job? Shut your fucking mouth.

>>17024760
Are you retarded? If you see someone say cadaver dissection, you can assume they're pre-med, and infer that they've taken at the very least physiology labs and microbiology labs. You do realize that the ONLY point of those labs is to teach you practical workforce skills, right?

is it hard to get into consulting in Europe as a fresh grad? Reading interview questions makes me feel stupid. If only those temp agencies werent a scam maybe I could get hired....

do i need a PhD in computer science to get one of those fancy jobs working on software verification making 6 figures a year?

>>17024925
It works differently in Europe than in the US. Consulting firm wants 3-4 YOE. So fresh grads will start with corporate jobs and then go into consulting, with a significant salary increase. In the US, it generally works in the opposite direction.