«October 31Chelsea 2-0 Manchester UnitedBournemouth 2-0 Leeds UnitedBrentford 2-0 Nottingham ForestCoventry City 3-1 SunderlandHull City 2-2 Ipswich TownManchester City 0-1 Brighton & Hove AlbionTottenham Hotspur 2-0 Crystal PalaceAston Villa 1-1 Fulham»«November 1Liverpool 0-1 Arsenal»«November 2Newcastle United vs Everton 20:00»
Bumming Party Edition
>another arsenal league win
Andy MadleysHaving a partyBring the anal numbing cream And Bacardi
Were City lucky at the start of the season, or?
>>158459567Liverlol
>>158459588when will the media tell it like it is?
>>158459735they'll never launch an investigation into how Gabriel gets away with it If he played for any other club though...
Just the zero shots on target last night for me
Why didn't United, Spurs, Chelsea or Liverpool buy Konsa? He's Arsenal's B team behind Saliba but he'd be those teams best defender aside from Van Dijk at Liverpool.
Zero shots on target and they're still 12.places above ManureThat's an entire midtable
>>158459923Ezri Mbongo Konsa has ambition and wouldn't settle for UnitedArsenal got a pretty good deal getting him from Villa
>>158459962Slabian
you KNOW there are multiple Scousers right now going frame-by-frame to prove one of the shots was on target, actually
konsa is shit, it's artetas negative system that makes him look goodput mustafi and sokratis there and they'd still keep cleanies
>>158460151You're factually wrong.
It actually makes me wonder what the threshold for "shot on target" actually is because thinking about it, most games should have a much higher amount than they usually do. Like if it was just "if no one stops this, it goes in" then most games would be well into the double digits for both sides, but clearly that's not the case. Like if someone shot straight at the keeper and it's easily caught, I'd have thought that was still on target since even though it was piss easy to stop, the keeper still had to actually stop it. Or like with all the headers from set pieces in the box, or when someone just shoots from outside the box and it gets deflected off a defender, there's loads of those and they can't all be being counted. I'm guessing there's some minimum xg needed or if they're just not bothering to count any that didn't have a chance of going in because a body was already in the way.
i'm back, both my local and man united lost so i was hiding away
>>158460558>most games should have a much higher amount than they usually doyep well Liverpool had zero just so we're clear. Zero 0 nil zilch nada none
>>158460602That was such a shit twist.>lol there's actually an extra fucker in a wheelchair following us everywhere that we never acknowledge even though we're in a fucking Saw movie plot and an extra person helping could save our fucking lives1>3>2 btw
>>158460771i spent the last month binging all threeit was an experience
>>158460827>an experience Yeah that's probably the best way to sum them up. They are certainly something.
test testit's november and you guessed it, jadon sancho still hasn't got a clubthis will be updated in 2 weeks
watch Sharteta get rimmed by the media for pulling the exact same cowardly anti-football bus park he pulled in the CL final and only getting away with it because the refs wanted to go to the Travelodge Halloween bumming party and didn't give a pen this time around
I just peeked the upcoming champions league fixtures and oh my goodness matchday 4.b, matchday 5, matchday 7, and especially matchday 8 are such absolute shit. I've gradually soured towards this new format
0 shots on target has hit the prem
Barcola>130MIsak>150MWirtz >120MShots on target >0
>>158463280Don't mention that.
>>158463280The media will mention this but won't offer an explanation as to why the referee is holding hands with Odegaard
>>158463739Will the media talk about why a Liverpool player wasn't sent off?
>500m>for this
>>158463811The media usually gives air to Arsenal fans' delusions so probably
Mantroony giving it the biggun despite his grim little club being the biggest laughing stock in the entire sporting worldManchester United are getting fucking relegateddddddDDDLDLLDilated
Might play an entire game of football and have zero shots on target despite half a billy lads.
my team is shit
>>158463280Liverpool has spent more than any other club and still gets outclassed by Arsenal and Man City at home.
>>158459567Its always funny seeing players go apeshit after scoring goals and then it chalks off by VAR. This is the biggest clown one to date
>>158463951At home?
>>158464212Casa...
MT is the 5am banditJobless tranny on the dole crying about his clubby being in seventeeny
>>158464342I dont think you release how mentally unwell you are. The amount of time you spend on 4chan and your demeanour, are alarming. What makes it disturbing, is its not a troll. Its not even funny. Its relentless and repetitive. Its part of your identity, part of your routine. You're absolutely mental.
>>158464402Realise*
Wesley Fofana is one of the worst CBs I’ve ever seen. There’s no way his IQ is above 90
>>158464402This. Liversissy is mentally ill.
Calm down mantroony, samefagging doesn't make you look same17th btw
>>158464448and chelsea got no other option after the other French defender got injured
Tran U in the bottom half because it's a gay club for bottoms
>>158464429KEK you also forgot the "its" >>158464448>IQ is above 90Judge a book by its cover
>>158464503I feel like they’d be better off playing Colwill and Acheampong as center backs in a back four than they would be playing with Fofana, if it were any other team other than United Chelsea would have given the game away in the first half purely because of Fofana >>158464514Just a totally vacant face
Fofana is a donkey that makes mistakes, but let's be honest. He wouldn't move to the side to let Rogers run past him like how Maguire did
Liverpool can't beat a team that lost to Fleetwood? Kek
>A 14-year-old boy has “handed himself in” to West Midlands police after a video posted on social media appeared to show a Coventry fan taunting Sunderland with a photo of Bradley Lowery.So edgy his mama is gonna be so proud mocking a kid with cancer in the middle of a football match
This can't be real.
>>158463739Kek, always a conspiracy against Liverpool isn't it?Fact is they don't look strong at all this season and their only notable win was against Brighton at home where they essentially got a lucky result after being played off the park.
moanin this is liverpool
Another sleepless night for ABAs.
>>158464617Think Lisandro was more at fault for that, Maguire had to track Estevao’s run. Just what I saw. Fofana created two clear cut chances for United in the first half, around 35’ and 42’ I believe They’re both shit either way but I’ve at least seen Maguire play at a somewhat acceptable level, any time I watch Chelsea it feels like Fofana makes a massive mistake
LIVERPOOL LOSE 1-0 AT ANFIELD AND HAD ZERO SHOTS ON TARGET DESPITE THE MOST EXPENSIVE ATTACK IN FOOTBALL HISTORY BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD AT FOOTBALL AND THEIR FANS CANT ACCEPT IT ALSO THEY WERE DIVING FROM 5 MINUTES IN AND WIRTZ HAS YET TO PROVE HIS WORTH that's the witty headline on the back page of The Sun but surely it's not true :-\
>>158464057cute girl
>>158459567I felt so much secondhand embarassement from that. How fucking clueless are they? Celebrating a goal like that, like they are scoring for fun, in the middle of their 10 win streak. Absolutely pathetic
>>158463474damn, he cute boi
>>158464621>look at a picture of some dead guy>police get involved
Who shot Gabriel!?
>>158465424I'd heard he dived but hadn't seen it, looks like someone did grab at his neck so cheers for posting.
>>158465424kek so zesty
>>158465262They were cheating not even 1 minute in (no card given) That's fine though
>>158465424should be retrospective bans for thisits so embarrassing
>>158465542I think the biggest question is how do you remove that shit from the sport altogether
not sure who's in charge of Liverpool's transfer policy but they should be sacked TODAY
>>158465557theres a new rule where they are supposed to go off the pitch for a minute for dives like this where they hold their heads but it seems to be enforced only at random/for actual head injuries for some reason
ANDWE'RE LIVEThis morning to tell you that Man Dilated are a grim little club
The dogs bark, but the Arsenal caravan goes onBack 2 backDynastyBest squad in the leagueBest coach in the leagueNigerian descent women from London will celebrate another Arsenal trophy parade.
Liverpool 5Hull 10Newcastle 12Coventry 16Man United 17
>>158465600Didn't realise Newcastle were promoted in 2025/26
>>158465424Black Brazilian's reaction when he realises the girl he pulled from the club doesn't have a cock
>aws leaking out their "arse hole" thread againPOST A COD TO SCARE AN ARSE W--
>>158465613KEK it smells like mantroonys mum in here
>>158465613It was the irish liverpool fan that was living on OUR bloody thread saying Liverpool was going to destroy Arsenal 4-0 for severa days Archie.I am just giving back the changeBack 2 backBack 2 back
>>158465619post that slop in /lug/ if its the irish no one wants smelly aws here
I thought Portugal hated Arsenal which is why he talked about the ugly Nigerian women
>>158465624Who knowsWhat I do know is Liverpool had zero shots on target yesterday
WHOPPED
The Argensimian World Cup winning CHAD breaks the bugger mind
So embarrassing even the Liverpool players just walked away from him
>>158465619>inter-general shiteEmbarrassing
Dekkerz and Macca are the same age but one is more accomplished than the other. How about that Baleba though.
>>158465626>zero shotsAnd zero contact
Liverpool are three points ahead of Spurs
Pic nonrel, but whats the point of Adam Smith of Bournemouth?
>>158465699Very economical in his use of the ball
>>158465424Definitely looks like someone touches his neck area and unfortunately he absolutely has to go to the floor to get the referee to react, as evidenced by the Isak penalty incident. It sucks but that's what referees want apparently.>>158465682There's like a frame where it looks like Madueke actually might have touched MacAlister but it's not conclusive. It's right before you can see the gap between both their foreheads. And again, he has to act like he's been shot because otherwise referees and VAR won't do anything.
>>158465699Loyalty
>>158465424cheats
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS ANYBODY SEEN LIVERSISSY SHOTS ON TARGET?!?!?!?
Funny that the Sky Sports "pundits" were criticising MacAllister for playacting and trying to influence the referee, then literally a few sentences later they said that Isak should have playacted more to influence the referee and win a penalty.
>>158465727The ref early on decided that shirt-pulling and stamping was fine, Nyoni did it not long after kick-off
>>158465712You can see that Madueke makes slight contact in that video, but it's not violent at all. Then half a second later, MacAllister realises he can try to get him sent off and flops to the ground.
>>158465557This shit never happened before we started letting wogs play the game.
let's not forget that tran u got bummed by the rentboys
>>158465743Careful mate, just say 'United lost to an opponent' and leave it at that
>>158465754That would be too sensible for someone so brainrotted they see everything as trannies.
>Bournemouth have won their last six games in all competitions without concedingShit just completely passes me by now
Jamie vardy. PEAK premier league footballer.
>>158465767its a good run but in fairness they have played >2 europa league teams>villa in the cup both rotating players>stinky manure>terrible form sunderland>leedsnext up they have sparta praha, ipswich, forest, celta, fulhamthey could go 10 on the pop unironically
>>158465767This is a fun season. Bournemouth were rotting down at the bottom and were showing no signs of life for a while.
>>158465754Newcastle haven't played yet though
>>158465787prime barclays ladremember yakubu jay jay okocha at bolton haha what were that about
>>158465727You see players get pulled like that all of the time and not get a penalty. The refs are completely arbitrary with it. It's not a discussion until it's brought up as deflection cope for why the most expensive attacking force in world football history couldn't get a shot on target (at home).
>Arsenal conceded 0.00(xGOT) against Liverpool.
>>158465845Fulham too in a similar way, they outplayed Villa away but were denied a win by their gk
>>158465870Yeah this is why I'm not really buying it as a valid complaint. I'm not seeing any talk about Liverpool's duds at the front. To get ZERO shots on target even (and by the way, there's a cope over that one now where they're saying Mac Allister's awful pass should count as a shot because it was technically saved by Raya)
Business idea: At least hit the target at home.
>>158465871Might as well stay home. Collecting crosses isnt real work.
I have never seen Liverpool lose and the fans say 'yeah fair enough we had an off-day'. It's always some grand conspiracy.
>>158465969liverpoo were poo and have overspent massively on shite players like wirtz and droopy the dog but they should have got a penalty for that shirt tug on isakhonestly the "gooners" should be saying "yeah fair enough we got lucky"
This is our year lah
>>158465984kek that's fucking shocking
>>158465984>they should have got a penalty for that shirt tug on isakNyoni normalised shirt-pulling in the first minute >>158465500I know you won't accept that 'i-it different because-' but he also was stamping on the back of the foot so yes it's actually worse. Got ignored by the ref
What the media won't report is that with their zero shots on target in 90+6, it's incredibly unlikely that Liverpool would've scored any given penalty anyway.
>>158466005whataboutery blah blah blahyou know how i can tell youre black?
>ref was fair in how he ignored shirt-pulling... b-but it different because- a CONFIDENTLY predicted response
the prediction being the aw couldnt say "fair enough we got lucky" yes
Wirtz honestly looks like he isn't made for the sport let alone the league. How much did they pay for this bum (despite zero competition for his signature) again?
>>158466015The media aren't going to say "96 minutes wasn't enough"
yeah yeah fair enough no shots on target but innit funny...murdoch media isnt saying 'raya made no saves' - isnt that his job??
Kind of mental how Everton are still a PL side in 2027
>>158466030140m+ and a 6 year 1.2m per month deal
>full media campaign to protect the feelings of Divepool fans
>>158464902Martinez is most at fault but the defending is genuinely nonsensical all over the shop there. If you watch the goal again, you'll see:>Instead of tracking Estevao's run, Maguire steps out of the defensive line for a tackle but doesn't get anywhere near Rogers, leaving an overload behind him. >Martinez, meanwhile, basically refuses to engage Rogers all the way and lets him run in a straight line right into a one-on-one with the keeper. >Santos makes a sliding tackle outside the area where he's nowhere near getting the ball or a Chelsea player.It's one thing if a player makes a mistake leading to a goal. What happened there was an entire defence engaging in nonsensical behaviours; distances all wrong for everyone. That to me speaks to systemic dysfunction. United has a lot of flawed players but a goal like that comes from systems breaking down rather than individuals erring imo.
>>158466005>Got ignored by the refI'm pretty sure he called for a foul. It just wasn't a yellow card for some reason.
>>158466049JesusCould be the biggest flop since Soldado
Germany, famous for having players with high flair.
96 wasn't enough? You killed 97
Not sure why Liverpool are worried. They have Palace (relegation contender) next so Isak will look like a £130m striker.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF
>>158466167probably after some mistake he made as well
>>158466048Everton were one of the original "big 5" when the PL formed (along with Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs). They just couldn't keep up with Chelsea and City's financial doping.
>>158466227They got screwed by Heysel as well, probably would have won a European Cup during that time
>>158466167I got the impression yesterday that none of the Liverpool players like nor even respect Van Dijk, likely due to him constantly throwing them under the bus after his abysmal performances. Alisson had to run over from between the sticks and settle every dispute.
we live in a simulationhttps://x.com/utdtimmo/status/2116966267508674895
>>158466227>and SpursGrim
>>158465648I wouldn't mind a round-up of some of the bangers from around the generals, if for nothing else but to stay informed
Just did a massive Mbeumo on the Carrick
>>158466258is that the guy from the .jpg?
>I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! is returning at the end of the month with Wayne Rooney leading this year's lineup
YNR Antony That United Feel
>>158466329
>>158466373so it is!
>Newcastle United legend James Milner ran the New York Marathon in three hours and nine minutes just months after retiring from football at 40 after using AI training programme
>>158466329>>158466373>>158466391euro 96 too....
>>158461797Nathan Redmond also available.Just putting my client's name out there haha.
>>158466330>>I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! is returning at the end of the month with Wayne Rooney leading this year's lineupFirst tranny on I'm a Celeb?
>>158466297Making a post like that says a lot about you and your interest in the sports themselves.
>>158465500Horrible cheats
>>158465722Kek so zestyyyy
Ms. Mantranneh has a smelleh fanneh.
Why won't the players listen to Michael Carrick? Isn't he a legend?
ZERO SHOTS ON TARGET AT HOME
i see the tranny obsession derby is in FULL FLOW!keep calling each other trannies, it's always RIOTOUSLY HILARIOUS!
>>158466499no mate he's a waterboy also we're winning the league wallahi most points since carrick was interim wallahi
>>158466506What happened to the Transfield atmosphere? I thought the sing song scared opponents...
10 Downing Street NorthExcept it's 17 Downing Street North because United are 17th
>>158466516>Transfield
>>158466517tran u getting rellied?
>>158466516Anfield is one of the easiest stadiums in England to take points from. Man City took 3 just a couple weeks ago. Think it was 3-0.
Man U in the championship next season
>Liverpool have failed to have a shot on target in BOTH of their last two games against ArsenalBloody hell
>>158466533U ain't wrong
>>158466538>>158466506Bit homophobic that the ref didn't give Liverpool 2 penalties to win the game innit
Mansimp posting tranniesAs it was x
Man U on the relly
Liversissy failed his driving test after repeatedly trying to put the examiner's knob into 3rd gear
Unemployed Davinder emptying his folder again
Uh ohhh Mantroony meltyyy
Mansimps club is 17th btw KEK
>>158466554Kek what a zesty bugger
>>158466562United are 17th??
>>158466558>Unemployed Davinder emptying his folder againKEK true thoBro is upset TRANNICK shat the bed
>>158466570fraid so
>>158466558He's on the dole that's why
>>158466337Missing seeing him UNLEASHED
How many matches Man U won this season then
>>158466543Liverpool could have 10000000000000000000000000 penalties against Arsenal but the numbers prove that they could not score any of them
>>15846659090m warra signing for the twirler himself
>>158466591Just the one mate, thanks!
Liverpool signed some real flops.
>>158466591>How many matches Man U won this season thenZero
>>158466596Disregard, I suck cocks
>>158466596Can't argue with the data...
>>158466591they haven't won a single match this seasoncarrick is still good though they should keep him
>>158466537VGH. perfect female specimen this. Thigh gap and all..... excellent post sire.
>>158466596>10000000000000000000000000This is how much Liverpool will spend in January
>>158466612KEK don't post about arsenal mate
0161 Manny in the 17th
Ohhhh Manchester United (are rellied)Ohhhh Manchester United (are rellied)Ohhhh Manchester United (are rellied)
>>158466619Kek
>>158466624it's off topic to talk about Gabriel?
Tran u relly Mike Cuckic sacky
>>158466640>Mike Cuckic KEK
>>158466624Post your masturbatory fantasies elsewhere YID
3 Point Lane, Anfield, Liverpool
VOLUMES
17th in the league, Manchester United
Transchester Dilated has the same amount of wins as Sunderland
Another high quality thread. Jesus I wish you dullards would just die.
>>158466227Shame that United and Liverpool started paying such retarded fees and wages that the only way to ever compete was to "financially dope" I suppose.
>>158465743>let's not forget that tran u got bummed by the rentboysgee wilikers, no way? next you'll tell me dilated are getting rellied
3pm they'll wake up, 3:00.07pm they'll be on 4chan then we can remind them: no shots on target for the most expensive forwards in football history
Mantroony still not found a job?
THE RELEVANT 16
>>158466663Liversissy has to get to McDonald's for the free WiFi so make it 15:30.
he gets really mad when you say manure are 17th
>>158466656Agreed. You can tell it's gutter-quality /epl/ when a thread is spammed to fuck within hours of it being made.
YEAH Mantroony is just not a healthy individual
>>158466706many are saying this
Another point for my Tigers :)We do need to start turning a couple of these "fair points" into "unfair three points".I do worry the lads are kind of settling in to the Premier League rather than treating it with the siege mentality we need to stay up. It's creeping in from the newer lads how we lose the ball "trying things" and giving the opposition space, instead of playing it a bit more sensibly when we do have the ball and trying to make solid chances. Belloumi thinks he's off to [big club] already.
>>158459567zestiest celebration ever
>>158466631to the tune of this peanut butter and jelly song?https://youtu.be/klDHM_sxYxs?feature=shared
Based Tigers being above the small clubs fighting for relegation like Crystal Palace, Coventry, Man U, Sunderland etc
>>158466721>Mannyyyyy, Manny Dilated>Are rellied!KEK Canada with another banger
First you take Dilated and you smash em, you smash emSmash em, smash em, smash em
Then you the /mug/ and you bump it, you bump ityou bump it, bump it, bump itMannyyyyy, Manny Dilated Are rellied!
>>158466656Happens every time Liverpool lose
The saddest thing about the Liverpool and Arsenal match? They couldn't both lose.
>>158466755Can take comfort knowing the best team won though x
>>158466744can't stop singing this
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to these mentally ill freaks if the internet didn't exist.
TrannyyyyyyyTranny UnitedAre Rellied!
>Arsenal vs Hull City this weekend
Canada with a late entry for Alley Oop of the Year
>>158466779Pure kinoReminds me of Rogers vs Man U
>>158466779Reminds me of this banger
>>158466788which one he's scored against them a lot
Man U gotMAULED BY THE TIGERS
Liverpool will do good to finish somewhere between 6-8th this season, other teams are just too strong and spend too much money, the club needs heavy investment to compete, this season is already a write off.
>>158466789The aftermath of this goal was /sp/ kino
HOW MUCH did Liverpool's attack cost again???
>>158466806I was there. VERY good day for football.
>>158466793how can you call yourself a big club after that
>>158466793>Man U got>MAULED BY THE TIGERSVery Slabian
>>158466819Isak was 150M Barcola was 130M Wirtz was 125M + tip
>>158466834That's about the price of 17th placed Manchester Uniteds midfield and attack!
>>158466841How could they be in a relegation battle after spending all of THAT wonga
>>158466843let's just say it's....slabian
Are Spurs, dare I say it, back?
>>158466834Mad how Liverpool has the most expensive attack in EPL history and can't get 1 shot on target against big teams like Arsenal.
Crazy how Manchester United has the most expensive squad in the world yet only have 1 win this season.
>>158466834Grim little money club
>>158466853>>158466857>Mannyyyyy, Manny Dilated >Are rellied!Slabian
>>158466834They make me sick. Disgusting.
>>15846685346 x 90minutes next season for that lot
>>158466843how much for baleba and they're sitting in 17th?!??!!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!!!??!!?!
>>158466834Putrid cunts. All that moolah for 0 shots.
>>158466853You can't even blame their current form on squad depth and a lack of investment. The season has just started, they should not be fatigued already even if they are playing twice a week.
DDDDLDLLDLLLDLDLLLDDilated
>>158466834As a lifelong Liverpool customer, I hate to see what the club has become. It's not the Transfield I grew up loving.
Man U are getting relegated this season
Tony Bloom must be wanking himself silly over selling his shitters to Man U and Chelsea for stupid money.
tony bloom pulled manures pants down again and shagged manure FIRMLY up the arse
>>158466834WE NEED MORE INVESTMENT LA
Klopp said even if he COULD spend money, he wouldn't He made no big money signings
>>158466779>Phil Brown was a young up and coming manager back then>He's almost 70 now
>>158466849yeah until they have to play a game vs 11 non relegation footballers.>>158466834>>158466853unreal how clubs the size are mismanaged.
>>158466503>>158466503>>158466503>>158466503>>158466503
>>158466834Reminder that Jota killed himself so he wouldn't have to return to Liverpool
Phil Brown would have Sunderland above Man U (17th)
>>158466834>>158466885Klopp tried but got snubbed
You're telling me Manchester United spent 200 million GBP this window..... and they're battling it out with Sunderland?
>>158466904>You're telling me Manchester United spent 200 million GBP this window..... and they're battling it out with Sunderland?SLABIAN
>Mannyyyyy, Manny Dilated >Are rellied!
>>158466834Things they did to pay for those shit players>sacrificed jota>chased out trent who had given them everything >turned on klopp
soz but i just find it funny that man u are in the relegation zone
That 17th place Feel
>>158466834Wow this post really struck a nerve
>>158466902Why did he lie like this
>>158466914For me it was Slot winning them the league and then they turn round and say actually that's Kloppo's title.
Doleman Dave not gone into work then today?
For me it's Slot winning the league, something Man U haven't managed in a long, long, looooong time
>>158466926Liverpool fans told me they were signing Caicedo, Bellingham, and Enzo.>>158466834Grimola
For me it was the fact that Davinder is having a melty because Yanited are going down
>>158466834For me it's the 1 minute gap between every Liversissy post
>>158466944Don't even have to talk about their summer of snubs that made mantroony hide all summer longThey're 17th and they're going.... IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
For me it's Davinder not having a job so he samefags all day and gets bullied by epl and mug
Why do you call me Dave? My name's not Dave. It's Rodney.>>158466834Refund policy?
For me, it's Tran Dilated being in the bottom half of the table KEK
>>158466944>For me it was the fact that Davinder is having a melty because Yanited are going downcan't get any more truer than this
It's the 3pm wave after the night of no shots on target
>>158466834AWOOOOOOOOOOGAAAAAA that's a lot of dosh
For me it's Mantroony samefagging while his club is getting the relly
>>158459567Manure clowns are the gift that just keeps on giving. The cosmic joke of God.
>>158466834Must have scraped every scouser's PIP together >>158466972Lol
>>158466984man u relly carrick sacky
heard man u got mauled by the tigers
What is it about the North-West of England that causes so much mental illness?
>>158466834This post is gonna have Liversissy spamming the thread into the wee hours again. Don't see how his club having 0 shots on target is our fault.
>>158466994Not enough bins going around for all scousers to eat. Starvation induced psychosis.
Man United being bottom of the table is natural.They can claim whatever they want, United is a shit club, who only won titles with two of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport. And both Busby and Fergie would've won those titles regardless of the club they went for.Remindet that Man United in the 70's, got relegated.Man United is not a true european giant. It doesn't have the aura, the mystique of a true european giant like AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern Munchen. Did any of those clubs ever got relegated? Yeah sometimes they are shit, but never relegated shit.Arsenal is bigger than United. We won the league title at least once almost every decade of the 20th century
FEED THE SCOUSERSLET THEM KNOW IT'S CHRISTMAS TIME
liverpoo lost to arsenal loooool
Should Liverpool be allowed to spend more in January? It's the sort of anti-competition your loser clubs like Hull moan about all the time and yet they won't disavow Liverpool ever.
Kane missed a decisive penalty on Saturday, you likely didn't hear about it because the German league is a complete joke and yet thats all he won the weakest ever Ballon d'Or for
Honestly Liverpool should be encouraged to spunk more money on shit players. Player wages will be the only way Jeff Bezos actually pays tax in the UK.
>>158466994Most of them aren't even from there, they picked Man U/Liverpool to bandwagon as a kid.
>>158467012>Man United being bottom of the table is natural.>They can claim whatever they want, United is a shit club, who only won titles with two of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport. And both Busby and Fergie would've won those titles regardless of the club they went for.>Remindet that Man United in the 70's, got relegated.>Man United is not a true european giant. It doesn't have the aura, the mystique of a true european giant like AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern Munchen. Did any of those clubs ever got relegated? Yeah sometimes they are shit, but never relegated shit.>>Arsenal is bigger than United. We won the league title at least once almost every decade of the 20th centuryTRVTHNVKE
When this guy left Hull in November 1998, Hull City had started the 98-99 season badly and were close to the bottom of the fourth tier. Now that he's back, Hull are currently in the top half of the Premier League. A truly heartwarming football story. Goal!
>>158467151The cunt abandoned his kid.
>>158467012>isfoy
>>158467171He admits that was selfish. But in a 100 years people will know he was the first man to walk the planet from Patagonia to the bit where Carrick had a sob in a gents' toilet.
>Liversissy has fled the thread after getting bulliedKino day for football
Mantroony using his chubby little fingers to type on his tear soaked phone
>>158467198Got him biting at your every post
>>158467171yeah but in a romantic sturm und drang way
>>158467205he's fucking FUMING isn't he KEK 17 and falling
We wish you a liversissymasWe wish you a liversissymas We wish you a liversissymasAnd a transfield new year!
>>158467205Mantroony seething over a blatant bait postSCREAMING
>>158467253Banger
17. Man U
>>158467271/thread
>>158467066I heard about it because Kane-o got a special ceremony before kick-off too where both teams had to stand there and applaud as he came onto the pitch to Randy Savage's WWF theme and then gave a bad speech in English.Missing the penalty was the most fucking beautifully Spursy thing he could have done that night, short of getting an OG.
>>158467253New Christmas #1 just dropped
>>158467279>Kane-o got a special ceremony before kick-off too where both teams had to stand there and applaud as he came onto the pitchwas a bit too much pomp and circumstance wasn't there
>>158467581Plenty of Hope, shagged the Glory with that penno though
>>158467012You had me right up until>Arsenal is bigger than United
SHRIEKING
Crazy how Man U are supposed to be big but they're in a relegation battle
>>158467640wewhave to go back to 1955 to find a year where liverpool finished in the top flight outside of the top 10
>>158467672you have to go back even further to find a time that manure beat grimsby
>>158467681i just checked and Grimsby Town were still the most recent victor in that particular derby prior to last year
>>158467640Based cheater in life, not sportsball.
>>158467640He was referring to league titles. Liverpool went 30 years without one. Which was a reasonable commit considering united were still in their pomp at the time
Funny and kinda true Indonesia but I don't remember Liverpool flirting with relegation during their banter yearsJust Spurs and United
>>158467696Grimbsy has their number
>>158467696>WW2+1 Asterisk
>>158467696I bet it was when they were.....IN THE DIVISION ONE
>>158465722What would you say to cundy if given the opportunity?
>>158459567Florian Wirtz is the worst signing in Premier League history, an £100 attacker not being able to affect the game and in any way or form is unheard of. He genuinely has zero redeeming qualities.Zero goals in the EPL, zero ball striking, zero ball carrying in transition, zero creativity.
>>158467900>the worst signing in Premier League historyObjectively that would be Jadon Sancho
>>158467869I met him once outside of Snappy Snaps down Aldgate High Street waiting for it to open. Asked him what he was getting printed for tonight and he just winked and mimicked the queer Arne Slot pose.
>>158467900Where's Gross?Also the names being so far away from the faces is pissing me off
i think i would’ve never said this but Brighton please do the unthinkable and win the league, i don’t want to see Arsenal winning the league again….
>>158467854
thinking about last season when Liverpool fans were chanting for Xabi Alonso's name at Anfield week after week a disgusting thing to do but they feel zero shame ever and they don't remember this happened. it's not a lie on their part; they really don't remember it because their minds know to not remember bad things
>>158466834Is this real chat?
>>158467753Yeah Utd haven't had a long title drought since Fergie left
>>158467900No Antony?
Just dropped in to check on Mantroony and Liversissy…how they doing?
>>158465712>he absolutely has to go to the floor to get the referee to reactThis kind of thing is what I hate most about the rules of modern football. The referee shouldn't react to that regardless of whether a player goes to the ground or not. It's a contact sport. Contact fouls in challenges should only be given when they genuinely affect the ability of a player to play the ball. Where a challenge is unclear, the benefit of the doubt should be given to the attacker and play should continue subject to a VAR review.
>>158468105can you bugger off back to the "arse hole" nowyeah liversissies are shite we get it you still got done by the cod
>>158468192Both still nonces.
What's this shit I've been hearing about zero shots on target for Liverpool at Anfield? AI fake news has gone too far.
>>158468117It's been 30 years since Fergie left? Time really does fly when you're enjoying yourself!
>>158468050>simping for City last season >Brighton now Arsenal are the good guys, just accept it.
Why do people blame Fergie for the horse incident? Did those Irish blokes try to get Fergie removed as manager first, then sell when they failed? Sounds like they were the ones acting out of line.
>when youre 18th in the table
>>158468276for blacks like you not for the rest of us
>>158468193>play should continue subject to a VAR review.That would work in an ideal world. But I feel like right now, the on-field referee and VAR are locked in a weird loop, where the on-field referee lets some blatant fouls go because they expect VAR to do their jobs for them but VAR lets some blatant fouls go because the on-field referee has already ignored it. And after the fact they come up with excuses/reasons as to why they both let things go. It works sometimes, like in the United game where the referee was looking directly at the incident and doesn't even blink but thankfully VAR intervened. But in the Liverpool game they don't and say there wasn't "sustained pulling" or whatever even though that's nonsense. You either impact a player or you don't. I very much doubt that the rule book says it's only a foul if a shirt is being pulled for over 2.25 seconds or whatever. It really feels like common sense is just disappearing rapidly.
>>158468321>blackI’m probably the only white guy in here.
>>158468312KEK
>>158468276We love City. All Liverpool fans are secret City fans literally just ask any. Without City there's no Pep and without Pep there wouldn't have been our rivalry for so many years. City have never robbed us of a title. Arsenal robbed us in 1989.
>>158468256No, only 13.5 title laden years for Utd
"carrick" is only 1 letter of the alphabet removed from "carsick"
>>158468342if true (unlikely) being a white that worships black things is even worse too much rap music as a teenager?
>>158468393>robbed
>>158468415sorry anon, never listened to any form of ‘black’ music but there is color in football, we are all equally.
>>158468432no idea what you are trying to say with that ESL nonsense
>>158468439*no color, my bad.
>>158468449still incomprehensible
>>158468467*equal, phone posting is hard.
>>158468479still incorrect lad
>>158459567i HATE that piece of shit so much
>>158468276>yet another deluded Arsenal customer thinking his bandwagoned club of choice are "good guys"I can see why you clowns never leave your hugbox.
>Legendary Tottenham Hotspur defender Sebastien Bassong has been fined for dodging a £7 Tube fare
>>158468487there's no helping these ignorant peruvians
When you remove Cheatsnal and Man Cheaty from the table Manchester United are still in a relegation battle
"You might think I'm crazy with the results we've had and what's going on, but genuinely, I really can't wait for the game," said Carrick. "I'm really looking forward to it."Listen, I can't look into the future, you never know what's going to happen. That doesn't change the way I feel. Whatever happens is going to happen in whatever direction it goes in, but we want to make it a big night tomorrow."
>>158468824Apparently they're NOT sacking Carrick and will give him the season. The players are clearly not trying and want him gone, but if the players are doing that, then they'll continue to do that.
>>158468864>Apparently they're NOT sacking Carrick and will give him the seasonIf that's true you're going to see unparalleled levels of refball to stop them getting relegated.
>>158468899There are rumours it's because there isn't a 'clear and viable option' for United to hire. Some rumours claim that the club cannot afford any of the options. Some rumours claim that Willcox has blocked it because hiring a new manager would put him on the chopping block for getting it wrong.No idea what is actually true but United won't get relegated. Even if they got to Jan and were in bottom three then Carrick would go and they'd all start trying and do another 'most points since Jan la' posting and scrape 10th or something.
>>158468784I still can't work out why Santos tried to tackle nothing.
>>158468997player tapped square instead of L1 easy mistake to make
>>158468997God forgot to switch from the midfielder to defender and slid tackled.
>>158468199>leave>you lot never post here Pure dementia.
>Barca beat Villa>United beat Roma>Liverpool beat Fenerbahce>City beat Leipzig >Slavia Prague beat Arsenal>Palace beat Hoffenheim>Bournemouth beat Sparta Prague>Dunno about Blunderland vs D Zagreb
>>158469036you get made fun of for hiding in your thread when everyone else is in a match thread unless you windont think anyone has ever said "i wish there were more foreign aws in /epl/"
>waaaaaaaahh stop talking about the referees and praise Shartsnal for their defensive masterclass>the defensive masterclass:
holy fuck just filter the fucking flag, sick of you two being bitchy 14 year old girls
>>158469123if you filter with replies it hides it for you genius
Fitizen has been seething for a full 24hrs. YIKES.ZERO (0) SHOTS ON TARGET AT HOME.SECOND TIME IN A ROW THEY'VE FAILED TO HAVE A SINGLE SHOT ON TARGET VERSUS ARSENALWHO CONSNEEDED TO FLEETWOOD A LEAGUE FUCKING TWO TEAM£500M ATTACK LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>158460558opta betting stat makers have these definition
>>158468105Fraid so>>158466834Oh deary me
for me if a player simply passes the ball in a direction towards where the opposition's goal is regardless of degree of angle, that's a shot on goal
>>158469135mad how Shartsnal fans want to be praised for their "defensive masterclass" against Liverpool but when Fleetwood Town did it they were crying about a 16 year old getting sent off for kicking someone on the ground
>>158469135HOWLING THAT CAN'T BE TRUE
>>158469164That's exactly how Noni Madookie scored his first goal for Arsenal. He misplaced a cross which the Leeds GK (now an Arsenal player) threw into his own net and the PL gave Madookie a pity goal because he desperately needed one
Liversissy having a trademark dilation episode
>be me>play video game for a while>turn it off>open /sp/>"oh, that thread with red borders is close to the top, I bet there were some new posts">there's not>there have just been so few posts on the entire board that it never moved down
>>158469569>>be meKWAB
OI!LIVERSISSY!LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!
>>158467041>loser clubs like Hull moan about all the timeName one example of us doing this, silly cunt
>>158468256united are nearly halfway there
>>158469722>loser clubs like HullLOL
maybe Liverpool should spend a few million on bumming parties for referees like Cheatsnal and Man Cheaty do
Everton are staying UP!
>Televised games for the FA Cup 1st round this weekendsurely you're going to watch some sovl instead of the prem AGAIN lads
>>158469826>Wimborne Town
So many dogs barking ahahahaha hilarious shit.All it took was for Arsenal to start winning in order to expose that everyone else were the weak minded little faggots after all.
>>158469826Should all be on FTA to be honest Red Button or whatever
>hide in their general thread on /sp/ for 10 years>start acting like billy big bollocks after a single league win after 28 years when the refs collectively decided to award 0 red cards or penalties against you for a whole season>the club still has zero european cups historically
Liverpool spent a billy and haven't won anything
Genuinely forgot the irrelevant 16 was on tonight lol
>>158469842Go on, fuck Crawley
Newcastle are going down
>>158470208As poor as they are at the moment there's still a good few teams worse than them
>>158470208>TWO oil sheikdom clubs going downwould be hilarious
Newcy lost and they're STILL above man u
up the toffees lads
More that Newcastle are wank rather than Everton being good tbqh
>>158470326
mags play like shit and they're STILL above man u
I really hope we do a tour of the Prem one day lads...
Tony Bellew just threatened to beat up Cundy live on air and he wasn't joking His backpedalling little maskless face was a joy
>>158469826>Burton Albion v AFC Rushden & Diamonds (now with added Billy Sharp looking for career goal #300) wasn't chosen for UK TV>Peterborough United v Reading (solely for TNT to wank over Robbie Savage) wasYuck
>>158470383Serious question, why haven't we seen Femi Azeez play for Brighton yet and is he actually any good?
>>158470346they were so bad at times I thought I was watching liverpool. then they managed a shot on target and realised it couldn't be them.
Told you all the toffees gonna batter sandcastle.
Mantroony Liversissy Gay Couple
17. Transchester Dilated
Has anybody seen Liversissy? Last seen waddling behind Transfield with an ass luke a kebab from Hull.
"the unwatchables"
>+300 replies in just a single dayis there something big?
>>158470793You mean to tell me that Michael Carrick's Manchester United are even worse than the Manchester United of Erik ten Hag who they clowned and chased out of the country?
>>158471117Arsenal FC PGMOL bumming party scandal
>>158471100certain sham club only has outliers on this table
>>158468331In all footy history there has been some atrocious miscarriages of justice, lol even England's one WC win was completely fraudulent, and back then there was very little you could do about it. Shitty footage, objective observers all agreed that refs were entirely bought and helped England every step of the way, that "goal" in the final and the crowd already invading the pitch while play was still ongoing.. Anyway, nowadays you have a hundred replays, var and endless debate but at the end of the day it's just as much power in the ref hands as always and the buying off has gotten more sophisticated, but really it also just shows how shit and vague the rulebook is. All entirely down to interpretation, giving complete power to favour or disadvantage at any moment, hence increasing drama and viewer engagement. It's not a coincidence they have no interest in fixing this, it would literally kill the popularity of the sport if games were objectively and fairly judged according to clear rules
>>158468406>Carsick at the wheelActually, not that bad
>>158471579funny
>>158471117Your first sissy melty?
>>158472168>officiating errors are necessary for drama and viewer engagementthen explain how billions of people tune in every week to laugh at Manchester United spilling their spaghetti on the football pitchcheckmate "Jap"
>>158474386I'm kinda dissociating myself from this place with united losing every games
>>158471100>more than a goal a game>concede only 27 across the seasonhmmm looks like they deserved to win
>>158475347ESLs and reading comprehension, a classic recipe for disaster, sigh My point was that every game, zero exceptions, has loads of dubious and debatable decisions because the rules are purposely vague to engage viewers and cause debate. Simple example is the body check or push rule, it varies each match what gets called, even within a match depending on where in the pitch it happens, though there is meant to be no distinction for that in the rule book.That sometimes there are even actual obvious errors on top of it all is just a bonus.Also the flag is a geographic location, I don't pick it too signify my nationality, hope that helps you next time
>>158476596No, you were trying to claim that the refereeing is intentionally shit in order to manufacture controversy and introduce "drama" without which nobody would watch a game of football, and you were WRONG
>>158466507Only liversissy would keep this saved on his blower
Man U going down(Mantroonys fave thing to do on another bloke)
>>158476735Fuck me mate do you ever have a day off from being an unbearable bell end?Guess it fits with the Liverpool fan profile but it's very tiresome.The rules are clearly purposely ambiguous or else they'd be written and implemented differently like they are in other sports.
>>158468093it's okay petal, if my club were 17th I'd think about last season too
>>158476849The rules are vague because the sport is a couple of hundred years old and everybody knows how to play it with the exception of the bummers who grow up to become referees and can't comprehend the concept of a handball or a shirt pull
>>158476735I get it, the first part was a bit unclear and misleading but I literally ended with>it would literally kill the popularity of the sport if games were objectively and fairly judged according to clear ruleswhich was implying that the use of some sort of automated system, eg AI, that applied a clear set of simple rules without any bias or human error, would massively harm the sports popularity. I stand by that and would be happy to hear if you have any counter argument. I don't even know if it would be possible to clearly define how much body contact constitutes a foul and how much is the old "shoulder to shoulder" or whatever it is they say in homo-Roman gesticulations
>>158476925>would massively harm the sports popularityWHY?
>>158476945because Redditors (Man United fans (biggest fanbase because of the sheer amount of black and brown hordes)) HATE AI and push back against AI in football
The lad who went for a walk around the world came back to england
Crazy that he came back to Man United being a meme club
>West Ham United can confirm that men’s first-team Head Coach Nuno Espírito Santo has left his position with immediate effect.Not surprising at all
>>158477389Shame. I like Nuno.
>>158477411Does HE like you though?
>>158459567You're the thread spastic, relentlessly posting them all day and night. Why haven't you done a champions league one. >>158477411He was on a hiding to nothing at Forest and West Ham, not sure he took either job. I think he's got a chance of recovering like Silva did at Fulham.
>>158477455Calm down Mantroony, you'll be out of the Champions League soon enough
>>158477389won 6, draw 4, lost 3 and off you pop>West Ham United strike agreement with Scott Parker to succeed Nuno Espírito Santo. Hoped 46yo in place for Cardiff + Mark Noble could join backroom team. Proven track record of PL promotion, multiple #WHUFC PoTY & understands club culture good luck parks
>>158477481>Scott Parker getting another Championship job only to completely fail in the PL againzzzzzzzzzzzzz
NES free to manage Yanited next season.... IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
>2 more shitty club games until the BASED international breakGenuinely fucking love this feel lads haha! Fuck yes! :D
Very. But not in the cartoon sense of “angry Scottish man shouting all day”. Ferguson’s toughness was much more dangerous than that: he was relentless, confrontational when necessary, emotionally fearless, and completely willing to make decisions that made him unpopular if he thought the team needed them.He came from Govan, worked in shipyards, was involved in union activity, and carried that hard industrial Glasgow mentality into football. At Aberdeen, he was taking on Celtic and Rangers when Scottish football was basically built around them. He didn’t arrive at Manchester United as some polished corporate manager; he arrived as a man who had already learned how to build authority in hostile environments.The famous “hairdryer treatment” was real in spirit, even if the legend probably became bigger than the day-to-day reality. Players have described him getting inches from someone’s face and absolutely roasting them. But the more important bit was that he could make elite footballers feel that nobody was bigger than the club.That is where his toughness really shows.He got rid of Paul Ince, Mark Hughes and Andrei Kanchelskis in 1995 and trusted kids. People thought he’d lost the plot. United won the Double.He sold David Beckham despite Beckham being one of the most famous footballers on earth.He eventually moved on Roy Keane, arguably his most important on-pitch lieutenant, when Ferguson decided Keane’s influence had become damaging.He dropped big names, confronted senior players, and was perfectly happy to let a relationship die if he believed the dressing room required it.That takes a particular kind of nerve. Plenty of managers can shout at a reserve full-back. Ferguson could look at the captain, the superstar, the commercial icon, the fan favourite, and still say: you’re finished here.
>>158477551Think he took the name Manure too far by rubbing it all over himself
And the other side of his toughness was endurance. He could lose a league title in heartbreaking fashion, get battered in Europe, have the press declare an era over, then come back the next season absolutely furious and rebuild again. He did that repeatedly across more than two decades.That’s why I’d rate his toughness so highly: it wasn’t merely aggression. It was psychological stamina.He could tolerate conflict.He could tolerate being hated temporarily.He could tolerate rebuilding.He could tolerate ageing stars resenting him.He could tolerate losing and coming back.And crucially, he wasn’t soft with himself either. He kept adapting. Early Ferguson United could be very direct and ferocious; later sides became more tactically flexible, more European, more controlled. A less secure hard man would have clung to the same football forever. Ferguson was tough enough to change.The terrifying combination was basically:working-class hardness + colossal ego + strategic patience + emotional intelligence + vindictiveness when crossed + genuine affection for players he trusted.That last bit matters. He wasn’t just a bully. Many former players talk about him remembering family situations, illnesses, birthdays, personal problems. He could be paternal. But if you crossed a line he considered fundamental, the warmth could disappear very quickly.So if we’re talking pure managerial toughness, I’d put him among the very hardest elite football has produced.Not because he shouted the loudest.Because he could make brutal decisions and then live with them.
COYS, or something
>>158477389This is /epl/ mate
>>158477606Only English football news of note today
>>158477616Liverpool had no shots on target at Anfield for the first time in Premier League history, this is newsworthy enough for a month
>>158477598I'd say something about women or Gabriel but there's a simp in here that cries to the janny Nice football action today, shame the FPL autosubs haven't updated!
>I'd say something about women or Gabriel Yd's Law in full flow
kek West Ham sacked Nuno for not getting them promoted fast enough.Scott Parker in frame.
>>158477641SCRit's so blatant as well!
>>158477629>>158477641Do you not get bored doing this shite every single day
>>158477642It's more about the qualify of football than the results really, it's torrid and inconsistent.
>>158477642Was about to say they should be walking all over the league with their current squad but after having seen it im not so sure now
>>158477665Wolves and Burnley also have high value squads but they have been shit. Burnley has Vardy and Kyle Walker (who's on £75k a week) but they are currently in the relegation zone and a financial crisis is looming.
>>158477598looks like they're still together and the lady is now touring with a comedy stand up show with a supportive husband. good for them. when your football team isn't making you happy you have to find other things to do for your mental health
>>158477641Yep (((they))) do like snitching Tottenham Hotspur are a football club that have largely Jewish roots
>>158477671The Burnley one is fucking shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cjkgeqxgz5d5o>Burnley will set an unwanted English football record before their next home match on Saturday 31 October.>The Clarets have not won a home league match since beating Leeds United 2-0 in the Premier League on 18 October 2025.>Sheffield Wednesday currently hold the record for the longest time a team in England's top four divisions have gone without winning a home league match.>The Owls failed to win a league game at home for 376 days between April 2025 and May 2026.>Burnley's match against Portsmouth in the Championship on Saturday comes 378 days after that win over Leeds, meaning that they will become the new record holders the day before the game.Surprise surprise that game versus Portsmouth ended 0-0.
>>1584775412?
>>158477700Burnley playing like Spurs
surprised that scott parker has only managed 3 english clubs so far, feels like he's been on the manager carousel longer than that doing those 2-year stints
Use when ready>>158477866>>158477866>>158477866>>158477866
>>158472168>it would literally kill the popularity of the sport if games were objectively and fairly judged according to clear rulesI have to disagree with that. Football has been around for so long and the World Cup is maybe the biggest event in the whole world whenever it comes around and it's not like people are excited to see what kind of fresh new fucks up they'll get to see that day. That's not to say these fuck ups don't cause drama either, obviously. I think it's less to do with the sport potentially dying out and way more to do with the people in charge wanting more and more money. They can never be happy with their billions, they will always want that extra euro or pound or dollar. There is so much money in football that to pretend there wouldn't be any cheating or under the table shenanigans would be silly. We already have proof of things like that happening.
>>158476945It's about engagement, giving fans something to talk and fight about, get emotionally attached, bond etc it's how they turn customers into passionate obsessives, shared hardships of injustice, plot twists, conspiracies, redemption etc. if it was just the more skilled in the day wins, you wouldn't really get attached, like how no one gives a shit about Olympic sports outside the purposefully rate event of the Olympics, and even then they need the country/nationalism angle to add some depth
