Ragtag squad edition>What this thread is for:/tg/ gets shit done again and is creating a “Battle Bible” (Ala 2nd edition) for 4th edition Warhammer 40k.>What this thread isn’t for:Alternative ideas for what 4th edition could include, such as alternating activations, new unit ports, etc. This is a Stage 4 process and so there's plenty of time for that later on.Don't engage edition warriors, trolls and rule revisionists. We're trying to keep it tight; mannered and objective focused.BATTLE PLAN:Stage 1:Finish revising and formatting the SRD. Stage 2:Compile all GW official erratas into the SRD.Stage 3: Condense all the codices into up to date SRD. - pendingStage 4: Make a Hobby Enthusiast supplement for the SRD.Stage 4: Make an Optional Rules supplement for the SRD.HOW TO HELP:> Help to update the SRD:1. Check the latest 4th Ed. SRD here:v0.98A: drive. google .com/file/d/1KwK1cKvi6J-_38eTp5YRXbzWJvYtmJhA (remove spaces)Changelog: drive.google.com/file/d/1yLBkFdcigJMjE7s3i8nzuanSt11uTbh52.Look for any typo, errors, missing rules or dense writing style.Make sure your recommendation wasn't already posted here:drive. google. com/file/d/1xP-gIraW1DThssvvtE58YeTd3yDxwyzp/ (remove any space)Leave your recommendation on the SRD pdf directly by leaving a comment in google drive- Servo-Gifted anons:> Get on the Github: github. com/pepsi41999/4ebattlebible.git- Holo-Gifted anons:> Get in touch with Inkwash anon >>95934508RESSOURCES:Original 4th Ed. Rulebook:mega. nz/folder/1DMxURza#iLn0OuQ8AVGl4XJvU8J4IgFAQs & Erratas :mega. nz/folder/p95WHYiY#2TZFnrI1vbRtjRSQLWNuYg3rd/4th era trove:mega. nz/folder/p95WHYiY#2TZFnrI1vbRtjRSQLWNuYg/folder/pxhlwZZS4th edition compilation by anon:mega. nz/folder/PEcnVC5Y#BGZlNvCNOoC2_ZFdw_5KoAPrevious thread: >>96147320
Sorry if I missed any links in the previous thread lads.
>>96343541Pretty sure that if you added more links assuming there were then the text limit would be passed.
Just for the sake of conversation, I've got it into my head to make a Squat army using my new 3d printer and pic related stls. For simplicity's sake I'm just going to use IG Doctrines, so I'm thinking the following would be a decent arrangement:>Carapace Armor>Die-Hards>Techpriest Engineseers (for Guild Reps)>Xeno-Fighters (Orcs)>VeteransI never played the editions where real Squats existed, so I don't know much about them from that time period beyond the Paul Bonner art. I'd like to write an era-appropriate 3rd-style Codex for them, but that's a bigger project than needs to be tackled right now. Any ideas appreciated from the true grogs.
>>96344001>I'd like to write an era-appropriate 3rd-style Codex for them, but that's a bigger project than needs to be tackled right now. Any ideas appreciated from the true grogs.If you want to do that, then I strongly recommend reading up on what little there is of the Demiurg. They were intended (as far as I can tell) to be the replacement for the "sillier" squats of older editions.inb4 >reddit , but this should help you.https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/u06bcq/on_the_demiurg_lots_of_excerpts/They seem to have some men of iron tech and whatnot, and be rather defensive except vs Orks. I'd probably not do stuff like the trikes. Probably more mining equipment and things of that nature. Could probably take some inspiration from the newer GSC stuff.
>>96343477I went in the last thread and grabbed some more relevant links:Tau/Kroot codices: gofile io/d/nEVOh3Guard/armoured company/ weird regiments:gofile(DOT)io/d/JgC8ecAll other complete codices: https://mega .nz/folder/5SxSAbTK#xTn9hz0PGp1_kMYT0SZXuAThis image needs updating.
>>96344809Thanks anon!
Made a dark skin wash which is 10 drops of daler rowney red oxide and 10 drops of liquitex carbon black.Made a strong skin shade which is basically a sepia wash that is 10 drops of daler rowney sepia and 10 drops of daler rowney burnt umber.I think I’ve covered the basics of diy acrylic washes now.Remember liquitex carbon black is a semi opaque black ink so if you need to darken but not too much then go with the semi opaque ink as an opaque ink will darken too much.This has been a fun and messy journey. My pc is currently in for repairs so I won’t be able to draft some pdf pages for the hobbyist edition’s pages until it comes back.
>>96344117Thanks for the information, I'll give it a read. Maybe I will give that codex a shot, since this thread will have anons best equipped to judge it from the framework of the era. I don't want to clog the arteries of the project at work though.All that said, I personally like the biker aesthetic they had going on back in the day, so that would be the emphasis I'd give them. Not to exclusion of course, but a Squat Trike isn't any more or less silly than a Space Marine Attack Bike if you ask me.
>>96347023How much of a hurdle will it be to get an army like that written if the reference point is a previous edition?
>>96344809>orkanon posting for the first time in a while:Thanks Anon, I've been away for a bit which has kept me from doing more of this. I've downloaded the docs and added them to the archive. Any word on Witch hunters? I've been delayed on daemonhunters so long with everything going on IRL that i haven't seen if they're going through the same. I'll see if i can work on daemonhunters this week though. NuSRD anon: can you give us any updates on the book, or are you still out on holiday? let us know.If everyone could take a look and see what we can do to improve the core doc that would be helpful. please comment in the doc via google drive to make it more simple to see. once we have the latest round of updates and the FAQ info added to it, we should be able to move on to adding pics and finishing up that portion of the doc.
>>96343477What does SRD stand for?
>>96348701System Reference Document.
>>96348701System Reference Document. It's a compilation of all the rules in an easier to read format.
>>96348783>>96348796Huh. First time hearing that term.
>>96348116Not terribly difficult to write, but to make it fair and match the feeling of this era? Those are the trickier parts. I've got some stuff already penciled down so I'll keep tapping away at it in between other projects.>>96344809>>96348588I would be glad to transcribe Armageddon and Eye of Terror, if no one has tackled those yet, in addition to reviewing in the drives.
>>96344001Squats had flak for all units except hearthguard.
>>96349345> would be glad to transcribe Armageddon and Eye of Terror, if no one has tackled those yetNo-one's done it, so please do. Although I think that some army lists may have already been done. Ti make sure, please check the mega.
>>96343477Need help finding a rules update for Cypher from around the time of Chaos 3.5 because I know for a fact it existsAnd also Guard High Command + Some kind of TSons unit (Chosen of Ahriman I think it was called) I know those were both in another article
>>96352023White Dwarf 281 for Cypher, 308 for the others.
>>96352950Nta but Is there a repository of all white dwarf magazines so that data collection can be easier?
>>96354294https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/83452870/#q83453645
>>96348588>NuSRD anon.Still on holiday. Well... sort of. My wee boy will be back to school in September and then I'll be able to work on the computer without him asking constant questions. Right now it's just easier to share a good time with him than locking myself away and being a shitty dad.Still keeping a eye on the threads though and super happy that the flame is still burning bright!
NewRecruitfag hereJust dropping in to say I'm adding Doomrider to Chaos for the hell of it
>>96355184*the Chaos 3.5 listMaking gains on it but I have a mountain of errors to clean up
>>96351186Yes I'm aware, but they had Toughness 4 also, no? I thought Carapace might be a decent way to represent them being slightly more durable than regular guardsmen. Do you have any ideas of what might be better Doctrines to use?>>96351747Looking through the folders I did see that The Lost and the Damned have been taken care of, but not the others. I'll start with Armageddon for now!
>>96354897Glad to hear. There's far worse reasons for being away from a project, you're good.
>>96355184I need to figure out a way to add aberrants and proper acolyte and neophyte squads to the gsc rulesLimos and trucks are fun but the citadel journal rules are just ass I'm getting a more gsc experience by running imperial guard with demo charges and catachan rules than the journal rules.
Were there ever any other supplements for Guard 3.5 besides IA Krieg & Catachans?
>>96355184CA Cultists are in too for that one Anon
>>96355184What is the difference between the 1999 and 2002 chaos armies in newrecruit?
>>96357305NewRecruit is just a listbuilder so it's the same as the books themselves
>>96354328Thanks anon!
>>96357086I think there were abhuman doctrines in white dwarf.
>>96357086There's lists for Elysians and a few others. It's all in the Mega.
>>96355184Awesome.>>96357069>the citadel journal rules are just assThey're fine, they're just a different vision for the army. But yes, they are missing Aberrants, the Rockgrinder and Metamorphs.Also, check the Errata in Citadel Journal 41, it fixex a few things.
>>96359021>ElysiansHell yeah.
>>96343477This is sadder than your nogames OSR thread.
>>96359275Thanks for the bump!
>>96359027They seem to be rules for a cult in formation, while modern GSC rules are a proper cult.
>>96357309Yeah I know that. I was just under the impression that the 2002 codex was just a reprint, it has been two decades so memory is fussy.
Now that we're almost done with getting all the codices down for editing, and the core is nearly finished, if someone wanted to work on getting all the expansion rules together so we can have them ready for editing, that would be helpful for the future of the project.This would include: the Original combat patrol and Kill Team from the main rules, Special missions, including battle missions, Breakthrough missions, raid missions, hidden setup, (jungle fighting from the catachan book may have been replaced by this, but it would be worth looking to see if some of that should also be included) Campaigns, both the structure from the main book and the other options from expansionsCities of death, and whatever other game modes we can get.Apocalypse, both game modes and assorted unit rules for bigger models. thankfully the structure of armies at the time was "just bring whatever" so it's more freeform, but those special unit rules will absolutely be awesome to have in one placeThis is a whole new leg of the process, so we can take our time doing it, but i figure since there was such an overwhelming response to getting all the codexes done, it would be great to get the next leg going with this too.
>>96355184I've wanted 4th Edition in NewRecruit (and Battlescribe before it) for many, many years. Godspeed to you anon. If you pull it off you might just save my gaming group from 40k exhaustion.
I think Combat Patrol rules should be altered slightly.>No vehicles with a total Armour Value greater than 33I'm of the opinion that this should be increased to an armour value no greater than 34. This way, Orks can still bring Deffdreads and Marines can still bring Dreadnoughts. Both players, for example, can still get access to anti-vehicle/anti-walker weaponry and can swing a Victory Point orientated game like Combat Patrol by successfully killing off the enemies lone piece of armour.Just my thoughts.
>>96361469. i think because of this the AV count was very intentional for this to avoid dreads taking over in small scale conflicts meant for mostly infantry. do i WANT to see dreads in there? sure, but not at the cost of messing up the game as intended. we can have a little blurb saying friendly games can increase the cap by a point if they want to have the possibility of dread equivalents on the field, with the warning that they'll pretty much need to bring high strength weapons of 6+ make a dent in them.
>>96362129I think a simple 1 per army would prevent them from overrunning things. Personally, in my games, I've never had any trouble with Dreads appearing on the table, it's just another aspect to play around tactically or to intentionally target for the points it awards you. Hell, merely disabling it nets you half its points as reward.Again these are just my thoughts and how we play the game locally, but I think it's worth considering.
>>96357069The "GSC experience" *is* the Journal list, bub. If you want to play the modern army, play the modern game - "space miners" was a fine enough background for the specific GSC from the Overkill box game, but making it their whole faction identity was lame.
In 4th edition, can someone give me a reason for ever taking Space Marine Veterans when they're 3pts more than standard marines and don't get better stats.
>>96362778Cool models are their own excuse
>>96362778Tank Hunters
>>96362841How do Marines with belt-fed bolters like this get the ammo in?
>>96362778Larger availability of special weaponstons more specialization options.terminator honors may be taken for 10 pts and improve their attacks and initiative. the 3 points is the tax for those options
>>96362930And if you're playing Black Templars they can go sword & board which is always kino
Does anyone have Eye of Terror without the fuckup on the left?
I couldn't find one in my collection, but here's a shitty photoshop job that makes it at least legible.
>>96363564no, but altering it slightly made it at least a bit legible
>>96364728fuckin, nevermind, other anon did it better
Here you are gents>>96363564>>96364723 >>96364738>>96364728
>>96366197Also, some inspiration, I just finished some EoT Traitor Guard today
>>96363564I have a pdf of just the Lost and the Damned section by itself, without that fuck up, that someone made:mega dot nz/file/ 29Qz3BbZ#aMZY1SXOkD3wiwG9vmHZCs3SG9Dff0Y53E7ybOFdi9ENo idea where I got it from.>>96366222Very nice stuff, Anon.
>>96362747Think what anon is saying is that the GSC journal army list hardly works.Being theme as a starting cult and not a proper army in a wargame kind of screw them up mechanically. The space miners skin is hardly relevant.
>>96362898They could use partial stripper clips.
>>96360973please put this in next threadbest as another to-do bullet point maybe?also do we have a general update on how things are going?
Whipped up a 1.5k test list with the Emperor's Children Combat Patrol I bought + a few other things and I'm amazed how seamlessly the new stuff slots in. Was worried that the Flawless Blades would be a little tricky to adapt but no, just think of them as Chosen Aspies with swords & combat drugs and it all makes sense.
>>96366841>also do we have a general update on how things are going?not much recent movement - all but 2 codices are transcribed, core is on hold for another little bit while NuSRDanon is gone. he should be returning in the next couple weeks to update the core book. meanwhile the core still needs to be looked over for typos and poor wording, as well as adding the remaining FAQ info. once that's updated he can add the example pics, art, quotes, etc, and that doc can be considered done.then we're on to editing the transcribed codex entries and adding additional game types and rules, then the project is done. so, i'd say were about 1/3rd of the way finished with some delays, and a lot of preliminary work is ready to go for the next step.
>>96362898Low tech - a flap that lets rounds go past then pops back a little to hold it in place.High tech - some spinny bits that detect when a round is present and pulls the belt in.Alternatively there could be half of a magazine that inserts into the gun which has a feed mechanism to pull the rest in.It's always been stupid though.
Just curious, why 4th rather than 3rd or 5th?
5th just has a bunch of bad game design decisions between codex design, tlos, wound allocation, casualties, etc.
>>96368642NTA, elaborate please. I'm not part of this project and I don't know about the intricacies of wound allocation , tlos or casualties etc But I would certainly like to learn.
>>96367865We get this exact question every thread. Here's the abridged version:>3rdToo fragmented>5thWe don't like it
>>96366222great job anon
>>96367865this moment in time, 4th edition with some 3rd codexes, is really well balanced and is basically the peak of the game.
>>96369142>>96369846Makes sense, 3rd and 4th mostly blur together for me except that my Khorne rhino rush army was kneecapped by no charging out of enclosed vehicles and my Imperial Guard army became a lot stronger due to that same change and sweeping advance going from 2d6" counts as charging to 3" doesn't count as charging.
>>963687244th Edition- Wounds can only be allocated to models within range and line of sight of the shooter.- LoS can only be drawn up to 6" through area terrain (typically ruins and woods), though generally you still use the model's eye view.5th edition- Wounds can be allocated to any model in the target unit regardless of range/LoS.- All LoS is "true" LoS meaning you can see and shoot through basically any visible gap on the table.I swear I've seen people talk about 5th edition letting you spread wounds around on multi-wound model units but what I'm seeing explicitly forbids it in the same way as 4th edition. Maybe there's a loophole I'm missing or they were just wrong. In 5th I think they made cover saves more forgiving to make up for the lack of concealment but I still think it just makes for a poorer game.
>>96343477Finishing magnetizing the windshield. Magnetized the storm bolter turrets. Working on attaching the grabbers under the fuselage, thinking about making them moveable
>>96366552On the contrary, it's completely relevant because it was GW attempting to do exactly what you want - turn them into a "proper army". But the whole point of them is that they aren't a "proper army", they're a shadowy cult that controls a society from behind the scenes and, if absolutely forced, will use coopted local military assets to fight for them, a scenario that the Journal list works perfectly adequately for. Trying to force little niche factions into becoming "proper armies" is one of the ways 40K went off the rails; Deathwatch were fine as a Kill Team. Grey Knights were fine as an ally unit and definitely didn't need their own special baby-carrier superdreads. Arbites shouldn't be capable of fighting at the same level and with the same flexibility as Marines and Guard. Sisters should have been expanded by adding whacky Ecclesiarchy stuff but because of NPCs who only want to autistically collect thousands upon thousands of points of one very specific thing they're now bloated to hell. All these little factions are there to add flavour and variety, as allies and side projects, they aren't meant to be your main thing, and when GW try to make them into a range that will support being that to people they have to contort and retcon the fluff in dumb ways(seriously, have you *read* modern GSC fluff? They give the impression half the fucking Imperium are ACKSHULEE Cult worlds just going through the motions, the headache reading it gave me legitimately cost me braincells).The Journal list is niche because the faction as they existed at the time of publication were niche and the faction were niche because that's what makes sense in the fluff.
>t. not!mad
Is there an anon who is going to host the mega where the PDFs will be uploaded?I don't feel like I am responsible enough for the task.
>>96371067The obvious counter point is the Lost and the Damned army from the Eye of Terror codex.It worked fine and was a good mix of Chaos and Guard with a handful of new units added.I guess >>96362747 doesn't know about Second Edition Genestealer Cult rules, the problem is in the execution of porting that force over not the concept.Some aspects were already weakened by changes to the core and Tyranid rules. The creator of the Journal list then removed a bunch of stuff from the 2nd edition army list, weakened some units he didn't remove and also made choices while trying to make the army fit the new Force Organisation Chart system that hurt the list further.-Genestealers in 3rd/4th were nothing compared to their 2nd edition version.-Psychic Powers in 3rd/4th were nothing compared to their 2nd edition version.-No Rapier Laser Destroyer, no Tarantula, no Mole Mortar, no Thudd Gun.-No Land Raider, no Chimera, no Imperial Guard Land Speeder.-Hybrids reduced from S4 to S3.-Hybrid Broods in the journal list could have 2 models armed with a heavy or special weapon, in 2nd edition every model in a Hybrid Brood could take wargear from the armour, assault weapon, grenade, basic, heavy or special weapons list.-Hybrid Broods and Genestealer Broods in the Journal list are Elite choices (max of 3), in 2nd edition they were standard broods 25%+ of your points had to be spent on them and Brood Brothers.-Brood Brothers max squad size reduced from 20 to 10.-Chaos Codex Allies could be taken as part of the 25% spent on support.In return for this he gave them a bike squad, an open topped truck and a 10-50 model WS/BS 2 initiate squad with infiltrate.
>>96343477>/tg/ gets shit done again and is creating a “Battle Bible” (Ala 2nd edition) for 4th edition Warhammer 40k.Can you do it in your designated general?
>>96372044I should have added that I am fine with some of the things being removed, the problem is their lack of replacement.By 3rd edition you didn't have Imperial Guard with hover tech, the support weapons didn't have rules, Land Raiders were only for Space Marines and Chaos Allies would be pushing it a bit. Okay take those out and replace them with Imperial Guard units that fit the gaps, Basilisk and Griffon instead of the support weapons would be a good start.
>>96372120This is the designated general for the 3e/4e Battle Bible.
>>96372153Are we discussing 10e here?
>>96346392My PC is back!Anybody have the PDF blank template so I can get to making a hobby section when I get the time to do so?I might make another wash based on AP's discontinued Mid-Brown wash. Mostly because there is a leftover spot on my acrylic rack that can fit one more 30ml bottle.
>>96372186Armypainter is gonna make this guy disappear. I hope not.
>>96370699Impressive model. How hard is it to acquire a Transporter nowadays? Is a chinesium one worth it?
>>96372044That is my gripe with the citadel journal GSC. I'm comparing it with Witch Hunters, Imperial Guard and Lost and the Damned and I'm having an easier time proxying GSC with those rules than the Journal rules.>10-50 model WS/BS 2 initiate squad with infiltrate.Only one unit can infiltrate and squad can't be bigger than 20 models. Which I can understand why it was limited to one squad but why also limited it to 20? is not like the 50 guys have any armor save, while infiltrated was limited by the scenario so even in the context you could not abuse it.Perosnally I'm just running Imperial guard with random genestealer cult units. The IG command squad with demo charges fit nicely as suicide bombers
>>96370221>- Wounds can be allocated to any model in the target unit regardless of range/LoS.I don't think that's much of a problem to be honest, but I do see how it lets you preserve your best units >- All LoS is "true" LoS meaning you can see and shoot through basically any visible gap on the table.I imagine this is only a problem if you're playing against a certain type of player to be honest.
>>96372186Seconding the PDF template. Thinking of doing a proxying guide for modern minis
>>96374085If I was going to go full "counts as" I'd probably go with Lost and the Damned rules.Possessed can be tooled up to somewhat represent the past glory of Genestealers, Traitors cover Brood Brothers, Mutants cover badly equipped Hybrids, the handful of Guard vehicles, the Defiler could be pieced together from military and industrial vehicles.It would eat into the 3 precious "Genestealer" Elite slots but a Chosen squad could cover the old best Hybrids with the best equipment the Cult could find.Just using the Guard list certainly isn't a bad choice there is a lot of fun stuff in there to play about with, it's a shame Lost and the Damned could only take some of the vehicles.
>>96372135>replace them with Imperial Guard units that fit the gaps.The army list explicitly invites you to field Imperial Armour units, however this passage was removed in the Errata, by will of the original author.
>>96375849Not really much of a surprise the author told them to fuck off even if his original list is pish."Editor's Note:Tim wouldn't have known this when he submitted his article but there are loads of vehicle variants in the Imperial Armour tank book so why not use these for your Cults as well."Adding that in after the guy already clearly chose to leave out the Vanquisher, Demolisher, Basilisk, Griffon and Hellhound from the standard guard list is either hilariously stupid, or just sliding in an advert the the new vehicle book.
>>96376234Just looked it up to get the exact wording, it's in the very next Journal issue."Imperial Armour (page 14) - we initially noted that Cults could use Imperial Armour vehicles assuming that Tim had neglected to include them, however Tim was very specific in that he didn't want Genestealer cults to have access to the likes of Baneblades etc. In this case ignore the box on Imperial Armour vehicles."Seems they really were just that dumb, and so is Tim.
>>96376269Considering this GSC have access to Space Marine Predator Tanks. This mother fuckers are ridding chapter fortress monastery but a Demolisher is too much of a problem.
Hey anons, should I start a chill 40K blog? I mean, in general it sounds like it could be fun, right? Anyone else here have or read any blogs?
>>96376426Do it Oldhammer blogs are kino
>>96376426Please do, I'd be honoured to read it.
>>96376234>>96376269Yeah, Tim was an idiot. The list would play so much better and make so much more sense if it didn't have any Space Marine stuff and just let you field Guard vehicles.
>>96376426imo only do it if the motivation is intrinsic
>>96378469>>96380475We're very strongly leaning towards "do it">>96380640>if the motivation is intrinsicI'm not entirely sure I know what that means.
>>96372186>>96374254NuSRD Anon here, I'll try and upload the most recent template today if I can. Excited to see what you come up with!
>>96386751Thanks in advance!I await the roasting of my bad grammar and bad image editing skills.
So what stage are we at, at the moment? We have the inkwashanon who is talking about getting the PDF template to make a hobby edition so are we somewhat at stage 4 or are we at stage 3?
>>96392745I think we’re at 3.5 at this point if I had a bolter held to my head and I had to say something.
>>96376426As long as you’re a little bit tech savvy and having fun then your readers will also have fun too.
>>96398143I don't think it would be only oldhammer, I would want all editions covered, from Rogue Trader to 10th for now. Although I am curious to know what you mean by being tech savvy, I didn't think there was much to blogging unless I'm missing something?I'm strongly leaning towards starting a blog btw.
>>96398847I meant tech savvy as in making your blog look visually appealing and easy to navigate and all that website development stuff. Sorry that I wasn’t clear and instead was vague there.
Hope one of you enjoys.
>>96386751>>96388983Look at me lying to myself. It will happen this week-end, sorry for that. The week got suddenly busy out of nowhere but I keep my promise on my mind and will abide asap. Sorry again anon!
>>96401966No worries, anon! This gives me time to make drafts.
>>96374207>I imagine this is only a problem if you're playing against a certain type of player to be honest.You imagine wrong, then.It completely cucks the modelling of terrain. You can no longer render something like a "dense forest" in the game because even if it's a massive 24"-wide feature units will be able to fire through it (because it is impossible to model a 32mm scale forest with the amount of density it would have a 1:1).
>>96405115>It completely cucks the modelling of terrain.What a riveting insight you've provided us all.
>>96405535Must one provide "an insight" to explain a historical fact to someone who doesn't know, and wasn't there?
>>96405862>someone who doesn't know, and wasn't there?Bold assumption.
>>96406196Agreed.
>>96406196Well the alternative assumption is they're just wilfully retarded and didn't recognise the blindingly obvious despite having experienced the necessary context, so I'd say anon was being charitable.
>>96370221IIRC in order to spread wounds around in multi-wound model units each model in the unit had to have a different wargear loadout. This allowed the creation of separate casualty pools or something.Naturally it was a limited problem because there weren't many units that could actually do it AND not die fast enough to make it useful AND still be useful as a unit.
I don't understand why y'all just don't play games with people who try to exploit the rules in shitty ways. My brother and I play 4th and 5th all the time and never bring meta lists or play to exploit rules. If you're playing with shitty people, get new people.
>>96413074I do. We also change the rules the way we want. Only people stuck playing in game stores are forced to experience such waac.
>>96413971Imagine living like that. Sounds painful.
in 4th, what's the melee profile of Wailing Doom? I can't find it.
>>96419547It is an ordinary CCW that provides no extra benefits. The avatar is a MC and so therefor his melee attacks ignore armour saves. Melee weapons at this time did not have profiles like ranged weapons do, instead they used text to tell you what they did, which were almost exclusively limited to “it’s a power weapon” “it doubles your strength and strikes at I initiative 1” and “it can reroll to wound”.
>>96419798Oh, so I roll with my strength vs their toughness, ignoring armour saves because of Monstrous Creature?
>>96420146Yep
>>96420487Neat, thanks for the clarification.
>>96394780I think you're about right. Should the OP be updated to show that were in between 3 and 4 at this point?
Can you take a dedicated transport by itself as a troop/fast attack or whatever force org slot its normally listed in? Like for example could I run 6 empty devilfish as my troops choices?
>>96429362In general, yes. Land Raiders are heavy support or can be taken as a dedicated transport for example.Devilfish being listed as "Transport: Devilfish" would imply they are still supposed to be only used as dedicated transports and that not boxing them out separately from the troops section was a formatting mistake.Either way Fire Warriors are a 1+ choice.
>>96429905>would imply they are still supposed to be only used as dedicated transportsBut I cant find anything saying this. I have always played under the assumption of good conscience and so its never really come up. Like its *feels* like you arnt supposed to just spam transports but I cant actually find the rule saying you cant. In fact the devilfish is clearly carrying the troop choice indicator, same thing with the ork trukk, but not the waveserpent as a counter example of a transport that is ambiguous.Basically I was flipping through the ork codex and noticed that burna boys and tankbustas dont have trukks listed as dedicated transports. So how do I get a trukk for them?
>>96430007>burna boys and tankbustas dont have trukks listed as dedicated transports. So how do I get a trukk for them?You don't, but you can put them in a battlewagon or looted rhino/chimera/land raider.
>>96430007If you want an all-mounted ork list, try the speed freeks.
>>96404627Should I attempt at humor or stay formal for the hobbyist edition?
Is this lore accurateCan I use this
>>96434328Yes and yes
>>96372044>No Rapier Laser DestroyerCitadel Journal 43 (3rd Edition; just an issue or so after the GSC ones)>No TarantulaImperial Armour - Update 2002 (3rd Edition)>No Thudd GunSiege of Vraks - Part I (4th Edition)
>>96434705>listen here you little shit!Nah, but why the fuck would the chimera be missing, but have a random Space Marine Predator Tank. You can't tell me the cult is having an easier time getting their hands on space marine stuff than gear that the local PDF would have. From a thematic point of view is just odd.
>>96434875Chimera was added in Part 2 of the GSC army list (Citadel Jorunal 41)
>>9643432810/10 would throw off my concentration and make me laugh.
>>96434705Are any of those things in the Journal GSC Army list?Because I sure didn't see them, and the creator of the list made clear he didn't want anything else added to the list.Now you are right rules for some of those things did pop up later or wouldn't be too hard to create, but that would come under the initial discussion of making a new GSC list with the actual stuff that it should have.
>>96435344Okay you're right the chimera was added, unfortunately it was added as a Heavy Support choice rendering it still shite.
>>96437320IMO: If it is in the 2nd Edition list and hasnt be retconned (Imperial Guard Speeder) and makes thematic sense (not all kinds of Imperial Armour tank variants, as the armylist author didnt want, but PDF-issue guns like Rapier and Thudd Gun), why not include them with edition-appropriate rules? :3
>>96435344>>96437904Yep as a heavy support along with the rhino. If they where I do not know fast? And also came with some troops inside them then we are talking.But an empty chimera or empty rhino in the heavy support slot is not fun or fluffy. That has been my gripe with the journal rules for GSCThey are simply not fun to use, specially when you compared it to Lost and the damned or Witch Hunters. Which are also rather meme armies of the edition.
>>96401966>still hasn't uploaded templateShould I just go ahead and make a PDF of the acrylic ink washes over a transparent background then?
Anyone have the Wargear book on hand?
>>96442450check one of the mega links
Was ForgeWorld making rulebooks for fourth edition? Have those books been taken into account?
>>96445930Yes. Not all of them, but the ones missing will be added.
>>96445930Yes and Yes.
I did Feral Orks, Genestealer Cults and Movie Marines. I Put in a few notes in a README.https://gofile<DOT>io/d/rZQaJN
>>96439613You can still embark models in it.
>>96447020Thank you for your cervix.
>>96447020>README file about GSC>rest of the threadIt seems like anyone that has actually read and used the army on the table came to the same conclusion.It needs a fix or at least be a lot more flexible to homebrew
>>96447455<3
>>96366222Cool conversion and paintjob anon
>>963678655th is a broken mess. 3rd is just 4th without some updates and clarifications.
>>96352023Is this really for 3.5 or for the 4th ed codex? The article looks more modern than the 3rd ed magazines.
>>96446113>>96446118>https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Armour_Update_2004According to the bottom links of that page, the following Imperial Armour books are:Update 2005 • The Taros Campaign • Update 2006 • The Anphelion Project • The Siege of Vraks - Part 1 • Apocalypse INot sure if the Lexicanum missed any.
>>96366222I love these, the glowing eyes in particular are great.
>>96453205>5th is a broken mess.elaborate
>>96447567I'd vouch that just being able to take the regular guard vehicles and removing the space marines ones would do wonders for it.
>>96456617Nta but the quick and dirty rundown is that there was a change of hands where the old guard (the original designers like Andy chambers) were phased out and replaced with the new guys (Matt ward and the Crudmeister). 5th edition is the first edition written by the new guys and so it’s when the game started to get worse. I would say about 70% of the changes go in favor of 4th ed. so in general 5th Ed is a little less of a cohesive and put together system. An example of where 4th is better is combat resolution. An example of where 5th is better is defensive weapons at strength 4 and running Calling 5th Ed a broken mess is blowing it out of proportion though. It’s still mostly intact because the new designers hadn’t had enough time and confidence to chance (break) enough things yet.
>>96445930Tbh you can play probably everything up to IA 11? None of the army lists that I can think of are cracked. After that they started making 2nd edition versions for 6th Ed. IA 12 was 6th Ed by default. I know Elysian got a list remake in IA 8 and that one might be meant to be used with the 5th Ed guard order system I’m not sure, but I’m pretty sure that the siege of vraks books all (maybe not the last one) are meant to be used with the 3.5 guard book. IA 11 has eldar corsairs in it which are cool.
>>96355500>>96349345How's progress going on Codex: Armageddon?
>>96453308It looks like somewhere around 4e to me.
>>96458785second vraks book was released during 5th but before 5th guard codex while the third part was released after 1 or 2 months of the codex release. I don't remember if they added the order rules in the original print of the third book.
>>96454730Someone is covering or has covered these books, right?
I discover and issue when playing 4th with 10th tables. Ordnance weapons domante.The lack of things such as forest and creaters make those weapons very oppressive as a result our list have started to take way more vehicles and transport just to have a chance to survive the open field.At least till we finish making some creaters and trees.
>>96463632I would suggest drawing some shapes on paper and cutting those out, and just label it as [terrain piece] in the interim. Yeah it's not pretty, but mechanically it works.
>>964636324th was designed to be played with thought-out tables that look like battlefields in the 41st Millennium instead of the tabletop equivalent of TF2 Orange maps.
>>96458347I think in addition to the actual problems with the core rules, dislike for 5th gets - justifiably IMO - amplified in groggy circles because it's also the edition that began GW's modern embrace of named characters. They had tried mostly dropping the "opponent's permission" prohibition on specials already, but the community largely continued to enforce it themselves, and 5th was GW saying>Oh you won't get on board of your own accord? Fine you ungrateful fucks, now all your subfactions fun flavour rules are tied to a specific dude, howdya like dem apples piggies?
>>96463665>>96463763Yep we knew modern terrain rules where ass, but this level suck assery was not expected. The few times we played at my place I live rather far away so the carless folks have a hard time getting here there is very noticeable difference to how games are played. Than when we played at the local store that has the shit ass 10th terrain.The random sandbags and bushes change a lot how the game plays
Alright, i've been struggling with stuff outside the thread for a bit so i have to drop working on the daemonhunters book. Who wants to pick up that one and transcribe it? preferably someone who actually played them back then.
>>96447020Awesome. Question has someone made the Witch Hunter and/or Imperial Guard? I'm not seeing them anywhere in the thread
>>96463940That’s a good point. While I don’t mind the mini heroes like the totally not Rambo characters, I don’t wanna see Calgar in every game. I’m not super well versed in 3rd ed but I do know that in the core rules it mandated that you ask about special characters. They took that out in 4th Ed and it’s one of the only changes I can think of that is for the worse.
>>96465137The Imperial guard are in the mega link here. The gofile no longer works.>>96344809The witch hunters are a work in progress.
>>96467610If witch hunters does not show up next week. Think I could do it, should have a some free time away from my models so might was well give it a shot. Guess I could use one of the random word files as a template. Wonder how the fuck I'm going to fit the henchmen section
>>96467689No offence anon, but someone who speaks better English should do it.
>>96467935Noted, happens when my mother tongue is Spanglish and not Spanish or English. As a result my sisters and I mix the language a lot and we do not even notice, it does not help that we study in a school that reinforced this stupid crap.
>>96459395I am working on it, albiet more slowly than I wished. I'll include all the Steel Legion sections, although I believe the regular and mechanized Legions can be better represented using the Doctrine rules. There is no a corollary for the Hive Gang Militia though.>>96458785Again its getting too into homebrew territory for right now but I always did love the Ork Dread Mob list from IA 8. A '3rd' version of that would be neat with an alternate Mob Up (like how the Speed Freekz are different) where Mobs might flee until a Dread is between them and the enemy.
Played any games yet? This is my list for my game against lost and the damed.The scenario is about capturing and securing some witches that move 6" randomly each turn unless secured. Each time someone secures them they pop a large blast S4 AP- attack. (To represent the struggle till either side subdues them with some technobabble of their choice)
>>96471999That’s a really cool sounding mission actually, did you make that up? Just this weekend my friends and I played a 2v2, 1300 per side. We did team space marine vs necrons and tyranids playing a mission I made called spearhead: capture the enemy base of operations and you win. So you have to balance protecting your point and attacking theirs. Are there any actually good missions worth looking at hidden away in any of the older books? The standard 40k missions have historically sucked total butt, 4th and 5th especially. They are all some lame slight variation of try to be the one capturing objectives or table quadrants at the end of the game.
>>96473803Yeah, I usually make up scenarios and/or use scenarios from other games.Had a game with my GSC where the enemy had to kill some Biovores before they could kill my Super Patriarch as they where seeding the air with protective spores. While the Biovores could shoot their spore mines each turn.Got the idea from the Gears of War Seeders and Krill.
>>96473971So kinda like a vip type mission? I like to play a halo 2 style king of the hill where it moves around after a short bit. And I also have one my brother came up with about escaping a tesseract labyrinth.
>>96471999what did you use to build your last like that
>>96474166New recruit and the pretty scribe export option.
>>96374207>I don't think that's much of a problem to be honest, but I do see how it lets you preserve your best unitsAnon didn’t explain it very well. Without getting into the exact rules, both 4th and 5th edition allowed the owning player to preserve the most valuable models in a unit. For example, if you had a sergeant with a power weapon in 4th edition, you could just avoid allocating wounds to him until absolutely necessary.At the same time, there were mechanics meant to pressure players into removing multi-wound models sooner rather than later. 5th edition worked much the same way. If you didn’t want a model to die, you simply didn’t assign wounds to it.However, due to how the rules were written in 5th, this opened the door for rules lawyers to exploit the system. By following the letter of the law rather than the spirit, they could make units far more durable than intended. It was never meant to work that way, but some players couldn’t resist bending the rules to gain an advantage. It made things really obnoxious and unfun.
>>96463632Scatter terrain like barricades help a lot.
Inkwashanon here.Didn’t see or the template wasn’t posted.I’ll get to work on one. And take some hopefully serviceable pictures of the ink wash affects. Hopefully I won’t have to modify the washes.Any questions I should answer in the pdf I will make?
