Frenopolis is an open source gamified microcosm where players seek to outmaneuver each other to control the elements which comprise the world.It is easiest to learn with any YGO/MTG experience.You can request a free physical 2-player/90 card playtesting starter set by following the instructions in description of this video:(no identifying or payment information required)https://youtu.be/oPoBUoagO_kTabletop Simulator demo implementation:(let me know if you'd like to set up a game)https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3532880446Physical Demo 1:https://youtu.be/KIGdAsFzgHIPhysical Demo 2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Q_JRqjd_YMore infos:https://t.me/FrenopolisPrevious Thread:>>96367444
>>96417964picrel is a starter playmat which has all the zones and basic rules/definition/mechanic reminders.It is 30*22inches, 2 inches longer than MTG starter playmats which serve the same function.
>>96417975here is a quick reference sheet that covers the more advanced interactions. It is 8.5*11inches (single side).Between the starter playmat, and this quick reference page, you can play at an advanced level. The basic rules/mechanics of Frenopolis are generalized and simple. The ordering of them is what determines skill.
>>96417964Can you make a version with more clear words.Change soul to deck.Banish, collect, and conceal shouldn't really be keyworded.Change meet to pay.
>>96417964You're literally the only one writing in these threads and bumping your own shit. Unless you have something new to add or are actually willing to listen to criticism (which you always ignore) I think you should just move on. This isn't gonna take of.
>>96418293>Can you make a version with more clear words.There are many reasons for the verbiage that may not be immediately apparent. You can pick it up in 1 game. If you are still having issues after that, let me know and maybe I can help you with a personalized solution.>Banish, collect, and conceal shouldn't really be keywordedWhy shouldn't they?
>>96418398> Unless you have something new to add or are actually willing to listen to criticism (which you always ignore) There have been several suggestions which have been incorporated. There has also been a lot of delusional malding and larping. If you suggest something that would actually be an improvement, i'll incorporate it as I have been.> I think you should just move on. This isn't gonna take of.If you truly believed that you wouldn't be posting about it, you'd let nature take its course and let it die in disinterest and obscurity.
>>96418293If you can learn these 4 terms you'll have no problem. If unwilling to learn a few new terms for new game, sounds more like just grasping for things to complain about
The 4 colors that make up the Frenopolis board are called "elements":Fire, Air, Water, and EarthAll the board zones and card types are assigned 1 of these 4 elements.Each card color (Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, Purple, Violet) are defined as 2-combinations of the elements which comprise the board and the card types.Defining all effects in terms of these elemental relationships allows a strict correspondence between the game board and color pie. The effect scope of each color is strictly defined and predictable.You don't need to know this to play – you can just follow the written card text, but knowledge of the underlying design allows for more advantageous play.
For example:A Purple (Psi) and Blue (Technology) deck will have a strictly predefined interaction scope:Purple [Psi] (Air/Water) have effects which involve:Memes (Air), Stories (Air), and Energies (Water)in/to/from the:Void (Air), Soul (Water), and Matrix (field)Blue [Technology] (Air/Earth) have effects which involve:Memes (Air), Stories (Air), and Structures (Earth)in/to/from the:Void (Air), Archive (Earth), and Matrix (field)Purple (Air/Water) and Blue (Air/Earth) have an elemental conjunction (overlap) in the Air element. This means that a Purple/Blue deck will have effects which involve:Memes (Air), Stories (Air), Energies (Water) and Structures (Earth)in/to/from the:Void (Air), Soul (Water), Archive (Earth), and Matrix (field)
>>96417964Why is your youtube channel filled with shit like this?
>>96417964What is a hand?
>>96418739>If you truly believed that you wouldn't be posting about it, you'd let nature take its course and let it die in disinterest and obscurity.We are, your thread has died three times. Post in the amateur game design thread.
>>96419125same as mtg, ygo, and most other tcgs
>>96419234>Post in the amateur game design thread.I was thinking about that. I'll do that also. Ty.
>>96419296But what does it represent? In MTG the hand represents current thoughts.
Some card samples. 9/10 colors. Only White (Avatars) is missing.Green, Grey, and Black (Colorless) are not part of the color pie. There are only 6 colors tied to the color pie.
How to understand Frenopolis in the context of Chess:A chess board is composed of 2 colors (black and white) and 6 unique pieces (king, queen, rook, bishop, knight, and pawn).The identity of each piece is characterized by its unique movement on the board. For example:Pawn: Moves 1 square forwardKnight: Moves 2 then 1 perpendicularBishop: Moves diagonally on its color.Rook: Moves horizontally.King: Moves in 1 in any direction.Queen: Moves diagonally or horizontally.If you were to assign each of these movements an identifier (abstract them), you would end up with something like this:Pawn: Move 1 square forward = PKnight: Move 2 then 1 perpendicular = NBishop: Move diagonally on its color. = BRook: Move horizontally. = RKing: Move 1 in any direction. = KQueen: Move diagonally or horizontally. = QIn this way, you could define the Queen's movement (moves diagonally or horizontally) as:>Queen = Moves horizontally (Rook “R”) + Moves diagonally on its color (Bishop “B”)>Queen = Rook + BishopQueen = R + BIf you understand how a Chess piece's movement can be abstracted from the piece, you can understand how Frenopolis is constructed.
>>96419497It can represent your physical or metaphorical hand, the implements at your direct disposal. That which you project from. That from which you activity comes from (this is why it is assigned the Fire element)
>>96419633I know you have this weird obsession with surface level "computer science" talk from how you're writing stuff and previous discussions in your thread but it's clear you don't really know how a lot of computer science concepts really work or what abstraction really entails. I recommend that you step back, reassess how you present your game and realize that it's better to be clear and concise than hide everything under some pseudo-profound bullshit. You can easily trim down your rules-explanations into easier to understand and shorter sentences without losing anything.
>>96419633Frenopolis is like Chess, except the board has 4 colors instead of 2, and only 10 squares instead of 64. All of the movements between those 4 squares are abstracted (ex Pawn: Moves 1 square forward = P) and distributed onto cards. There are tables that serialize every single movement between every color. These movements are mixed and matched to create Frenopolis cards.A chess example of this:Pawn: Moves 1 square forward = PKnight: Moves 2 then 1 perpendicular = NPawn-Knight = P + NThis meta piece “Pawn-Knight” is able to do both the actions of a Pawn and a Knight, in a single piece. Sort of like how a Queen is a combination of a Rook and Bishop. The movements are abstracted and combined to form a new piece.Frenopolis cards are analogous to meta chess pieces on 4-color 10-square board. Once you learn the basic movements, it is easy to understand any card.
>>96419709>You can easily trim down your rules-explanations into easier to understand and shorter sentences without losing anything.It's been reduced from 18 pages to 2/3rds of a page.If you are able to reduce it further, without losing any necessary meaning, I will pay you.
>>96418672anon is requesting term changes so that the game is immediately more accessible to people who look into it or even have slight interest. Why? Because these types of games are more fun when it is spread and discussed with others. Maybe your goal is to gatekeep the game as much as possible but I don't see the point of not making these changes outside of being a sperg who has to have his way on things
>>96419751I’m not gonna make a Telegram to get a ruleset. Upload it online instead or setup a Neocoties/actual website instead.>>96419733This can easily just be explained with a simple “each type of cards have different movement properties that can be combined to form more powerful cards that combine several different movement properties” instead of doing the weird chess analogy and the talk about abstraction which is pure nonsense. From those two posts it’s even unclear how the movement would actually work in your game. Even your explanation of bishops in chess is confusing for someone who hasn’t played chess before and thus are unfamiliar with its rules.>Bishop: Move diagonally on its color.This is only true insofar as the bishop moves diagonally in the colour it starts the game on and that’s as a result of the fact that every diagonal in chess is of the same colour. Your description makes it sound like each bishop only move diagonally on the same colour of the piece. Anyone who is familiar with the rules of chess will know what you’re saying but someone unfamiliar with the rules will not. I think in your quest for “abstraction” you’re overthinking problems that are very simple. A bishops movement could just be explained with:>Bishop: Can move any number of unobstructed squares diagonally
>>96419853>I’m not gonna make a Telegram to get a ruleset. Upload it online instead or setup a Neocoties/actual website instead.see:>>96417975>>96417989>>96419853>This can easily just be explained with a simple “each type of cards have different movement properties that can be combined to form more powerful cards that combine several different movement properties” instead of doing the weird chess analogy and the talk about abstraction which is pure nonsense. From those two posts it’s even unclear how the movement would actually work in your game. Even your explanation of bishops in chess is confusing for someone who hasn’t played chess before and thus are unfamiliar with its rules.>>Bishop: Move diagonally on its color.>This is only true insofar as the bishop moves diagonally in the colour it starts the game on and that’s as a result of the fact that every diagonal in chess is of the same colour. Your description makes it sound like each bishop only move diagonally on the same colour of the piece. Anyone who is familiar with the rules of chess will know what you’re saying but someone unfamiliar with the rules will not. I think in your quest for “abstraction” you’re overthinking problems that are very simple. A bishops movement could just be explained with:>>Bishop: Can move any number of unobstructed squares diagonallySeems like very trifling phraseology. The point here is not to explain chess, the point is to explain how a Chess piece's movement-identity can be abstracted from itself and turned into an activated ability (in MTG terms). The same purpose (with less words) could be achieved by saying:"Bishops: Moves diagonally">>96419832check out the new play demo videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Q_JRqjd_YIts hard to take trifles about a few new words seriously that irl playtesting has shown people can easily pick up within 1-2 games if they have the interest to play. It's really not that much, most games are much worse.
>>96419984>The same purpose (with less words) could be achieved by saying:"Bishops: Moves diagonally"But that also ignores the fact that the bishop cannot move past unobstructed squares. This is an important distinction to make because the knight has the unique ability to jump over pieces. By explaining that the bishop can move diagonally any number of unobstructed squares we leave no ambiguity about its movement. By simply saying that it “moves diagonally” we are leaving ambiguities, “how far diagonally can it move”, “can it jump over pieces” etc. I think you’re caught up in your faux-computer science jargon too much to not realise that the ideal way of describing anything, be it concepts within computer science itself or rules for games is to explain them in simple, matter to fact ways that leave little room for ambiguity. >It’s hard to take trifles about a few new words seriously that irl playtesting has shown people can easily pick up within 1-2 games if they have the interest to play. It's really not that much, most games are much worse.It is also much easier to explain a game to someone while playing with them in real life, especially if the one explaining the game has mastered the rules (or in this case is the creator). It’s a very different thing to try and convey that information through a rule book to an audience that’s expected to lack any form of experience with the game. >>96417975>>96417989These don’t do a good job at actually explaining the rules for the game itself. One of the first things we read is “non-composite cards” when you explain how to tap cards. You’re already throwing jargon at a player without explaining what the jargon means. Remember that keywords in Magic are there to avoid having to print large amounts of text. It’s a shorthand to explain a recurring mechanic so that a player will be able to quickly pick up in it without having to read a complicated description of said ability.
>>96419853>>96420129im having second thoughts about you reducing word count or simplifying things
>>96420240Im saying that your posts about the games rules are too verbose and filled with stuff that doesn’t need to be there. You don’t need to go on a nonsensical talk about chess moves to explain how the movement in your game works, you just need to explain that it’s split into different movement attributes, what these attributes actually entails in your game and that cards can have multiple movement attributes. The chess analogy isn’t needed, it’s just needless verbose and confusing for a concept that seems relatively simple.
>>96419633A great example of what I’m talking about when it comes to simplification is this, you only need to establish that each piece has its own unique rule for movement, that the queen is unique in that it combines the movement properties of both a bishop and a rook and that this “meta chess” concept (which doesn’t need to be there, it’s nonsensical jargon and not what meta means) involves creating new pieces combining the movement properties of other pieces.
>>96419633>>96419733We could then explain this as:Each piece in chess has its own distinct rule for movement.Pawn: Moves one square forward. Knight: Moves in an L-shape (two squares forward, one to the side) and can jump over other pieces. Bishop: Moves diagonally.Rook: Moves horizontally.King: Moves in one square in any direction.The Queen is a unique piece in the sense that it can move both diagonally and horizontally, which means that it can move just like a Bishop and a Knight. By taking the different rules for movement that the five other pieces have we can combine them, just like how the Queen is a combination of the Bishop and Rook, to create new and powerful pieces. We can use shorthand to quickly establish which types of movement a piece can use, P for pawn, K for Knight, R for rook, B for Bishop and Ki for king and use this to define new pieces.Example: The Squire K, Ki. The Squire thus have the properties of the Knight and the King and can move in an L-shape (and jump over other pieces) or one square in any direction.It’s a much more concise and easy to understand way of explaining your concept with an example.
>>96420443Just caught an error there where I used knight instead of rook at one point but I think you get the idea.
>>96420443seems sort of superfluous to me, but if I find that other players prefer your explanation, then i'll give you $5.
>>96420443this description also misses the board colors/numbers comparison which is essential for understanding how the card effects correspond to chess piece movements.For example,"Archive a Manifest Entity" =Move an Entity (Fire zone) on the board to the Archive (Earth zone)Fire -> EarthRed to Yellow
>>96420647None of this is explained in your post using the chess analogy either (and I don’t think bringing in the chess analogy in the first place is really helping in explaining how to play your game). My point with the post is to show that you can be more concise with your explanations and make them simpler without losing the substance. An example is this from >>96419633>The identity of each piece is characterized by its unique movement on the board. For example:>Pawn: Moves 1 square forward>Knight: Moves 2 then 1 perpendicular>Bishop: Moves diagonally on its color.>Rook: Moves horizontally.>King: Moves in 1 in any direction.>Queen: Moves diagonally or horizontally.Which you then follow up with:>If you were to assign each of these movements an identifier (abstract them), you would end up with something like this:>Pawn: Move 1 square forward = P>Knight: Move 2 then 1 perpendicular = N>Bishop: Move diagonally on its color. = B>Rook: Move horizontally. = R>King: Move 1 in any direction. = K>Queen: Move diagonally or horizontally. = QYou don’t need to establish the rules for each piece again because you’ve already written this earlier, you just need to explain that we can break down each type of piece movement into five different types (pawn, rook, bishop, knight, king) and that the queen is a combination of two of these (rook and bishop) thus we can establish new pieces by combining these five more basic pieces and thus use the shorthand to quickly establish the movement rules of a piece without writing down a long explanation for it, like in my example in >>96420443>The Squire K, KiNow we have a new piece called Squire and we already know how it can move because of the shorthand. Thus we can establish new pieces by just tagging a name on them and putting the shorthand beside it. Your explanations are needlessly verbose, filled with too much jargon and not particularly elegant even when your problems aren’t that difficult.
>>96420647And again, the chess analogy probably isn’t needed because you bring up how the chess board have two colours but your playing field has four. It seems like in your game these colours actually matter, in chess the colours are only there to aid in setting up the game and make it easy to identify board positions, they have no real mechanical effect on the game. Your playing field doesn’t even seem to have grids like a chess board, when you use that analogy it makes it seem like we can play cards on a chess-like board and move them like in a game of chess, but your playing field just looks like a normal card game field. Why is the chess analogy there? What purpose does it actually fill?
>>96420848>Why is the chess analogy there? What purpose does it actually fill?Because the color pie is defined through a mapping to the board elements/colors.>>96418825>>96418835For example, if you see the other player with a Red card, you know Red ONLY has effects which have to do with Fire/Earth elements (Entity, Structure, Hand, Avatar). This is analogous to knowing that if a player plays a Red card, you know their effects will only be limited to Knight, Pawn, and Rook movements, for example.It is because of the strict relationship between the color pie, written card effects, and board.
>>96420903You don’t need a chess analogy to explain this, it’s just making it even more confusing than it already is and this doesn’t really translate to how you approach and play chess. If each colour only has a set of effects it can utilise then you just need to explain it as is with the rules of the game. If anything it sounds like a better analogy is Magic’s colours and how they tend to adhere to a specific playstyle, just in a stricter sense.
>>96421318Not everyone shares your perspective. I'm gonna with go with irl playtesters feedback on this. Thanks for your thoughts though.
>>96421340It’s easier to teach people hands on than through a text. Presumably you already know the people you’re playtesting with, they can ask questions in real time and get answers and they’re probably more willing to put up with nonsense talk because they’re having a good time hanging out with a friend and playing a game. I’m not the only one here who find your explanations confusing and your rules and analogies nonsensical. You’ve been doing these threads for a while now and the last few have just been you bumping them over and over again with little interaction, when someone do explain that they’re confused (you’re using way too many keywords and aren’t doing enough to actually clarify them, something that people have brought up before) you just either dismiss it and come up with some exusce. I think you’re too much in love with the abstract idea of what this game is, and I’m gonna be serious here, I don’t think there’s much interest in a game about memes that already started getting stale and played out a decade ago, and instead of budging on some of your more esoteric ideas (why are all these keywords so important when they can just be replaced with something more easily understandable?) to make a game that people could enjoy you just double down on them. Like I’m genuinely trying to help you here, just spamming rules snippets that you haven’t really thought through properly over and over until the thread dies isn’t gonna make people interested in your game. Write a clear and easy to understand rulebook free of jargon and make a comprehensive OP and you’re gonna get a more positive reception. Initially I just found your game cringe but I’m starting to feel pity on you man.
>>96421442You are right about explaining it in person vs via internet is very different. Though I am offering free 1 on 1 via tabletop sim.It's also much easier if you use the starter playmat. You can basically apply MTG or YGO habits directly to this game, though you will lose to people who understand the nuances better.I've playtested this with a somewhat hardcore MTG group, the main playtester is both a MTG judge and former LGS owner. Some of the things you consider flaws he considers design superior to MTG (which is an impossibly good compliment to get from an MTG devotee).The terminology is necessary for many reasons, some of them not yet explained. Also it's really not that complicated (MUCH less than other games). The name changes were not due to IP concerns, but as solutions to multiple levels of design.Because the game is free both physically and digitally, the weight of the criticism of those unwilling to even try it is significantly lower. I've got some really good feedback from people who've played it, even just 1 game.I can tell from your criticisms that they are from an outside perspective, because you'd see reasons for certain things and how they interact. You would be asking questions instead of telling me how it should be. If you put the time you've already put into these threads into playing a game (even alone) you'd be able to to offer much weightier feedback, and also have some cards.Still working on developing onramps. I'm in no rush to push this game. I'm not seeking approval or to cater to anyone. I have no financial motivation. I've spent a lot of time and money developing this. If you don't like it after playing it or not playing it, that's fine, doesn't have to please everyone. If good idea for improvement comes along, i'll implement it.
picrel is a box of starter/playtesting sets.They each contain 6 packs of 15 cards each.Each pack contains:11 of a single color (all 6 packs are the same mono color)2 Frens (green)1 Story (grey)0-1 Colorless (black)0-1 Avatars (white)Each of these kits contain 90 cards, and exactly 1/2 of a full color. There are 6 basic colors, so 12 sets total. There is no randomization or repeats. If you were to get all 12 kits, you'd have a complete 1080 card set.To play with these starter sets, all you need to do is remove the white cards (avatars), then shuffle the cards together, and split the pile in half.Then you need to select 1 of the removed avatars for each of the 2 players.After that you can begin playing.
There are 7 card types in Frenopolis. A card's type is indicated by the symbol on the bottom of the card which contains its stat. There are no subtypes.They are:1.) Entity (like creatures or monsters)2.) Structure (like artifact-sorcery-walls or perma defense mode monsters)3.) Meme (like instant sorceries or trap cards)4.) Story (like a field spell)Entities, Structures, Memes, and Stories only differ in their Type designation and how they conduct combat.For example:Structures do not conduct combat at all.Stories +1 cards.Memes -1 cards.Entities subtract their stat from their target.5.) Energy (like mana)6.) Avatar (like a commander)7.) Fren (like a xyz monster)These comparisons are rough and simplified, and I will explain them each in more detail below.
Entities:Entities are the primary damage dealer in the game. In MTG terms, they have Haste, Trample, and Vigilance by default.Entities are vulnerable to other Entities because the other Entity only need to have 1 stat higher to remove it through combat.Entity's effects are usually tap effects. Tap in Frenopolis means "reduce stat by 1" (it also has a 90 degree rotation, but it can be repeated 4 times before returning to its original position because the cards have 4 stat). This means that to use an Entity effect, you have to make it weaker, and it makes it especially vulnerable to other Entities which all have a base stat of 4. In this way Entity effects are expensive and high risk.The combat operation for Entity vs Entity is:Reduce each Entity's Will from the other until the end of the combat phase, and subtract any difference from the player who controls the lower stat card.Entities also have a more difficult time against Structures. The combat equation for Entity (Will) vs Structure (Equilibrium) is:(Will - Equilibrium) +1Because all the basic card types have 4 stat, this means it would take an Entity (with 4 stat) 3 turns to get through a single Structure (with 4 stat).Example:On the first attack the Entity would do 1 damage: (4 Will - 4 Equilibrium) + 1 = 1 damage, resulting in a 3 stat Structure.On the second attack the Entity would do 2 damage (4 Will - 3 Equilibrium) + 1 = 2 damage, resulting in a 1 stat Structure.On the third attack the Entity would do 4 damage (4 Will - 1 Equilibrium) + 1 = 4 damage,resulting in a -3 stat Structure. Cards are removed when they reach 0 stat.Entities cannot attack other player's Entities if they control any Structures. The Structures must be removed first.Entities cannot conduct combat against Memes.You choose the targets for all attacks, like YGO.
Structures:Structures are your primary defense and cheap/reliable effect output.Structures cannot conduct combat, but they prevent the other player from attacking your Entities or your Avatar directly. They are like a defensive wall.Structure's effects are usually once-per-your-turn (no tap), meaning they can be used for free during your turn. This makes them very reliable low risk effect output.
