>>96427735
Because a large portion of 40k fans just repeat the same dead memes over and over. They are fans of Space Marines doing cool-guy shit like yelling "for the Emperor!" and they don't really give a shit what the setting stands for.

>>96427735
They saw the other side yell "DA IMPERIUM IS PURE EBIL WITH NO GOOD QUALITIES" and took the polar opposite direction like mindless contrarian retards

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>>96427735
>Hello fellow imperial citizen

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>>96427735
This post violates the Lex.
The emperor has traced the destiny of all mankind, it is just as criminal for the wretch to envy the noble as it is for the noble to take pity on the lowly because each has his station according to the Emperors plan.
Now submit yourself to justice or be destroyed.

>>96427735
This post is literally just heresy, right?

>>96428385
>>96428411
You fucking dorks.

>>96427735
>That and the imperium perpetuates chaos, without it chaos wouldn't spread, 90% of all chaos followers are from imperial origin and their greatest princes are supersoldiers made by them
You're so close to realizing that the entire game is actually just the imperium versus chaos, with some side dishes, and even the worst, most outwardly cruel actions by the imperium aren't worth a gnats cock in comparison to what demons are getting up to.

>>96428880
Demons wouldn't get up to shit without people in shitholes and eccentric oligarchs to summon them though, that's the whole point...
Chaos wouldn't be that big of an issue without the imperium around the way it is. Ain't no one else feeding it other than the imperium's blatant incompetence
It's a objectivly bad, objectivly dysfunctional and objectivly decaying system. There's just nothing to reasonably agree on because yes, humanity could be doing better, but they keep telling themselves they couldn't

>>96427735
>mcbureocrat shecklethief, goldlord eatsalot, royalfuck richbourbon and corruptatron 9000
So, exactly the same guys that rule us IRL? At least in the Imperium, they also have giant glorious cathedrals the size of cities and towering golden statues of a badass Emperor who most people think is still alive-ish.

Compared to that, what do we have? We *know* that we're governed by the depraved High Lords, and all we have to show for it is squalid, cheaply-built suburbs, Walmarts, and masses of loathsome immigrants.

>started as a game parodying sci-fi popular in the 80s
>found a broadening fandom that had a lot of the jokes and satire fly over their heads
>writers started taking their own work just a little too seriously
>feedback loop between consumers who don't get it and devs who don't get it
>insert corporate desire to increase quarterly profit margins infinitely
>insert a bunch of dumb millennial and younger /pol/tards discovering the game from about '06 onward and using it to larp out their fantasies in space
>insert cynical corporate marketing team using cheap representation to try giving the IP broader marketability to feed the infinite expansion of profits and the backlash from both grognards over lore discrepancies and /pol/tards because they're /pol/tards

Did I about sum it up?

>>96429107
Wrong on the satire thing. But yeah, true. If anything, Priestly's vision of the Imperium was "well, the Imperium has people that want the Imperium to be better. Oh, and there's some planets that actually fine, no war, no corruption, no anything. Btw, consider the fact the Imperium might as well be the only chance at human survival."

>>96429097
Also ironically true.

>>96429059
>implying there was not ancient pre-imperium cultures that did that on a basis.
Might as well tell me filthy Kurgans don't do that either

>>96429059
>Daemons wouldn't get up to shit without people in shitholes
>Laughingfalloftheeldar.jpg

>>96429186
>"well, the Imperium has people that want the Imperium to be better. Oh, and there's some planets that actually fine, no war, no corruption, no anything. Btw, consider the fact the Imperium might as well be the only chance at human survival."

Unironic historical revisionism. RT may not have always been as grimdark as later editions but it always had satirical and cartoonish elements.

>>96429292
>Satricial elements
Like Ghazghull being satire of Margaret Thacher?

>>96427735
What the fuck do you mean, "what the setting stands for"? They're playing into the setting. That means adopting points of view from within the setting rather than a smugly detached omniscient analysis.
Besides which it's clearly established that the Emperor is as much of a god as chaos powers, with lots of direct effects in both game and narrative.
Do you also chastise chaos players chanting "Blood for the blood god!" because actually wanton violence is bad and Khorne is an evil god that only wants the worst for humanity?

>>96428545
>BLAM!

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>>96429888
>It's ok if you're like "hell yeah this sucks that's retarded and awesome" but many people seem to think it's perfectly justifiable to fight for "mankind" while some nobles live in palaces made out of solid gold.
Im just on about a very specific but very vocal LARPer and "morally grey grimdark" minority, should have cleared that out better. Im an IGfag my dudes do the same too... I will only chastise ork players if they try to speak with THE accent but fail at it horrendously.

>>96429097
The giant cathedrals you never get to see come at the cost of 21 hour manufactorum labor and you living inside a wardrobe anon, it's not much better. I grant you that if They could get away with this IRL They would do it though

>>96430480
>Im just on about a very specific but very vocal LARPer
Then why would you expect anyone here to know or give a fuck what you're on about?
Your complaint is still bizarre though. You think guardsmen should lay down and die because rich people exist?

>>96430502
>Then why would you expect anyone here to know or give a fuck what you're on about?
Because this board is where I mostly see comments like what im specifically talking about and it's kinda gay. I feel the newfag influx and constantly making the setting less grimdark and more focused on ebin badass muhrines sure helped the sentiment. Im just on about people who fight tooth and nail to defend the imperium never did anything wrong and borderline make parts of the setting their personality.
>Your complaint is still bizarre though. You think guardsmen should lay down and die because rich people exist?
No I like my guardsman being probably incapable of reading/writing and speaking in darktide tier british accents. Im just saying you know maybe the pre civil war Krieg elites had a point that their future would be better off as an indepedent system without paying taxes ya know
In universe that is, this is an out of universe conversation about 40kg tier /pol/tism

>>96427735
>You aren't fighting for the emperor, he's a corpse
Tell that to my miracle dice, heretic. Now face the wall.

>>96427735
>You aren't fighting for the emperor, he's a corpse
You mean the corpse that is capable of making ladies turn into angelic beings capable of wiping Chaos Corruption eith Faith? The corpse that literally keeps the Astronomicon running?

>>96429107
The setting went serious in literally the second edition 32 years ago. It was "Le silly satire" for 6 years and no one played it. All your understanding of 40k comes from /tg/ memes. No on in this thread played 1st ed.

>>96431386
fucking retarded newfags spouting actual bullshit. Fuck you nigger. 2nd edition was literally swimming with satire, and 3rd edition went for dark humor and black comedy. 4th edition was like a mix between the two. 5th is where GW started taking the setting seriously and also where it started reframing the Space Marines as superheroes fighting supervillains and sucking all the nuance and soul out of the setting

The emperor has guided humanity for many years my dude. He posed as a real estate agent in 1980s Arkansas, a noodle chef at a hole in the wall in Sydney, read the weather on Sri Lankan tv and was the bassist for Cream all to bring everything to this point.

>>96431546
No it wasn't you fucking moron, it was literally deathly serious. In 3rd the main event were the black templar, the literal embodiment of what this thread is saying "ruined" 40k, we had books like Crusade For Armageddon, what haha funny books were being published at this time? Ciaphas Cain maybe? Which came out around the time of your "serious" 5th Ed.
>F-fourth was a m-mix
The Eisenhorn books were already in print. Maybe you mean the hilarious 3rd ed Chaos Gate game or Eye of Terror book? All absolute hoots of satire and tongue in cheek. Or the 2nd Space Hulk and Final Libertation, all absolute comedies. Maybe read the actual rules and stuff from around that time instead of coming into the game at 7th Ed and larping as old guard.

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>>96427735
>many people seem to think it's perfectly justifiable to fight for "mankind" while some nobles live in palaces made out of solid gold.
Doesn't solid gold toilet owning noble archetype usually get transformed into lictor food / an ork football / drukhari anal beads by the end of any given story he features in?

If you lived in this setting don't know what's would feel worse, the fact that any sort of reasonable criticism would get you instantly executed
... or the more likely case that you wouldn't even come up with any reasonable criticism because you would be an illiterate moron in a literal hive.
Either way, it puts into perspective how pointless existence in 40k really is. If there's no room for individuality, and no hope for the future, why even keep things going?
Even the Eldar and the Tau have some manner of plan ahead, some goal to reach. But humanity? Its literally just "lets keep on living, even if our lives suck".

>>96431680
>No it wasn't you fucking moron, it was literally deathly serious.
You are a stupid stinky newfag nigger who never touched any of the editions you're claiming to be an expert about. Just stop.
> In 3rd the main event were the black templar, the literal embodiment of what this thread is saying "ruined" 40k
The Black Templars were peak dark comedy you retard. It's frankly embarrassing that illiterate dumbfucks like you read 3rd edition and somehow mistake it for a serious setting when it went so far out of its way to make everything as ridiculously, hilariously dark as possible. But then again, you probably never read anything 3rd edition to begin with.
>Ciaphas Cain maybe? Which came out around the time of your "serious" 5th Ed.
Ciaphas Cain's first book was published mid 4th edition, you lying little cunt.
>The Eisenhorn books were already in print.
Abnett is the only guy who was trying to take the setting seriously. The editors call his books the Abnettverse for a reason. Most of it isn't canon to anything but itself.

>>96431680
>>96431808
NTA but small correction, Caiphas Cain's first book, For The Emperor, was made in in 2003, which was around 3rd edition.

>>96431808
>Is wrong about 3rd
>Wrong about templars
>Ignores the rest of the examples
>Ciaphas Cain aren't even joke books anyway it's just memed on by /tg/
It's over, just stop posting.

>>96431900
you sure gave up quickly when confronted with facts, lmao

>>96430493
>could get away with this IRL
Some are already trying, Saudi Arabia has THE LINE aiming for a 110 mile long arcology that promises sci-fi convenience at the cost of Paranoia surveillance levels.

>>96431269
>this board is where I mostly see comments
Sounds like you're taking shitposts too seriously and getting butthurt over it. And made a thread to feed them. Good work retard.

>>96427735
Don’t you have a Tau thread to shill in? Why pollute the catalogue with your poorly formatted word salad?
>>96430480
Don’t bother with him, he’s the type of retard who wouldn’t listen to any argument no matter how reasonable it is.

>>96432888
Meant for
>>96430502

>>96427735
When I was a teenager chanting this shit it was:
>DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
>WAAAGH!!!
>ORKZ!
So the answer is always neurodivergence.

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>>96427735

>>96433980
>Bohemond
Come on, dawg. Of all people

>>96427735

... Are you new here? Everyone in the setting are the bad guys, if you haven't noticed. Its nothing new, we have known this from the 80s, so Im not sure what you are on about.

>>96427735
>You aren't fighting for the emperor, he's a corpse, .
You can tank meltas with sheer fucking faith in the Emperor
>That and the imperium perpetuates chaos, without it chaos wouldn't spread
A) Eldar degenered a chaps god into existence
B) Faith in the Emperor protects from Chaos corruption

>>96433980
You forgot the part where humanity was betrayed by the emperor.
He was so high on his own farts he didn't even inform his most trusted followers about chaos, and surprise, this left them entirely vulnerable to it.

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>>96427735
>why are people having fun with this entertainment IP
do you have retard

>opposing bad guys doesn't make you a good guy
There are real life people that are physically incapable of understanding the concept.

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>>96427735
what the fuck is even the point of this post. Do you want fans of the IP whail and cry and shit and piss themself about how mean the empire is? Are they supposed to write long progressive essays about how the imperium is facist and like [political party (you) dislike]? Are you expecting them to be annoyed about the giant fucking battle with big explosing because the IP isnt focussing on some greedy hive noble?

Listen, im here to larp as John Chapter Master being a cool action hero who butchers evil people while screaming "FOR THE EMPEROR!" and nothing will change that

>>96429059
>Demons wouldn't get up to shit without people in shitholes and eccentric oligarchs to summon them though, that's the whole point
And who tempts those eccentric oligarchs and shithole dwellers in the first place?

Where does the idea that Xenos betrayed humanity comes from? DAoT humanity wasn't friendly with Xenos going by what the lore says about the era.

>>96434807
Idk really, all I got is that half of xenos wanted to get even on mankind and the other half were not even holding a grudge, they just wanted to sack them and torture them.
The Eldar don't count on the former cuz they always hated mankind from the beginning.

>>96434807
>DAoT humanity wasn't friendly with Xenos going by what the lore says about the era
No idea which youtuber you're getting your lore from
They were allied until shit started hitting the fan, at which point xenos took advantage of the situation, betrayed their allegiances and started fucking with humanity for their own gain

>>96434861
Youtuber? What kind of a cunt are you? I am referring to lore from main rulebooks since as far as 6th ed.
There is no lore about DAot allying with Xenos and then being betrayed by them. All the lore we have is of DAoT humans exterminating aliens whenever they found them.

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>>96434942
>as far as 6th ed

>>96435194
No bait at all.
You strike me as a dumb kid who projects. 5th, 4th, and 3rd main rulebooks have next to no lore about the DAoT and Xenos relations.
So you either made up what you posted here >>96434861 or ironically got it from a Youtuber.

>>96429097
Our current government is literally genociding us with economic pressure and social engineering. Birth rates are below replacement. It is the most basic task of a government to ensure continuity of its people. Liberalism has categorically proven in nations across the planet it is incapable of doing that. I'd rather have a fascist government than be dead as a people.

>>96435517
The liberals aren't the ones who released the birth control disease.

>>96435517
Have you tried not to be russian?

>>96433980
>Xitter screencap
>retarded tourist opinion taken down by just the most banal idea of the setting
Every time...
>>96434665
Everyone in 40k would be a good by this standart...
Everyone is a absolute dipshit, it's just SMfags, Eldarfags and half Taufags have a hard time accepting this
>>96434751
They aren't fascists, no real life political ideology can be given to the Imperium
The Imperium is unbelievably unfascist in it's structure because it can't afford to be an authoritarian state, since it's an entire galaxy worth of worlds. We just perceive it as fascist because of a ton of fascist imagery and characteristics the writers put there for us to associate with fascism, so in a meta sense they are fascists but calling them fascists is wrong in universe
I just like 40k being composed of dipshits and lunatics as it has been prior to 8th edition. Badass lunatics a lot of the time but still lunatics nonetheless, not Marvel characters. Older characters were a lot rougher and less sound than what we have now, be it the galaxy breaking them or them being mad already. Calgar wasn't a Mary Sue he was a tyranid beating wreckhouse, Yarrick was the same but for orkz.
Guilliman coming back has been an absolute nightmare because now the Imperium actually has someone with good intentions running it, which beats the entire point of it all in a way. Like can we enjoy the setting for what it is as a bunch of grimy degenerates in power armor and overly pompous elaborate highly tailored suits for what's supposed to be military personnel instead of making it this fluffy "mankind's noble last stand agains't the horrors of the galaxy!!" shit that's been done for market appeal

>>96435771
>Marvel comparison
Sigh... and to think it was going on soo well.

>>96435517
>Birth rates are below replacement.
You say that like it's a bad thing, anon.

Nobody born today will ever be able to have a job, no matter how hard they work or how talented they are. Even now, AI has already surpassed the capabilities of the average entry-level worker in virtually every field. Where do you think it'll be in 18 years? Every person born today will only ever exist as a burden upon the state. Given that reality, the only rational move on the part of government is to actively suppress the birth rate to the greatest degree possible, so that when AI fully collapses the job market, the UBI payments that automated industry support can be shared among a small enough number of remaining people that the quality of life sustained thereby will suffice to avoid violent unrest.

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>>96435891
>Nobody born today will ever be able to have a job
Translation: Jobs are a commodity. You need to have a job. To work is your highest and most important purpose. Without one you might as well not exist.
>Every person born today will only ever exist as a burden upon the state.
Translation: You are worth only what your labor power provides. Provide nothing, and you are just a waste.
>UBI payments that automated industry support can be shared among a small enough number of remaining people
Translation: A better, more productive slave will be invented. You will be useless. Therefore, your masters should discard you, as to not waste resources sustaining your soon to be worthless lives.


The protestant reformation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>96434751
Is this a fan chapter or do the !Greek dudes come from an actual chapter?

>>96436007
The point is that we're in the process of transitioning out of the traditional system where people's lives are defined by work, but the reality is that capitalism created a wildly inflated population of billions of people who basically have no purpose but to do menial tasks. In a future where machines are doing that work instead, all that a large population achieves is dividing the resource "pie" into more slices, making everyone's slice smaller. In a post-work future, the quality of life is directly inverse to the population, so an intergenerational campaign to reduce the population is the best course of action until the population drops to a point where post-scarcity is achieved and thus further reduction would no longer improve quality of life.

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Leftoid media always makes us look cool when trying to mock us. The writers built The Imperium of Man to mock us rightchads but as is typical with liberal attempts to mock their superiors, their feelings of inferiority (the root cause of all leftist thought) meant that they couldn't help but aknowledge our self-evident superiority over them. The Imperium of Man is the sole government responsible for human existence, controls the whole galaxy and exists in a world where liberalism causes demons to claw into reality and (sometimes literally) rape everything they get ahold of.

However, the generation that created the setting is gone and the shitlibs that came after and inflitrated their way in did not get the history of it being a Woke setting passed onto them. They are only able to see that it's protagonist society is something us Rightchads admire for its basedness. Since the tolerant left cannot tolerate basedness, they now seek to pozz that society, despite that society ironically being made to mock the superiors they so despise.

P.S: The nature of The Imperium of Man is why I'm often able to enjoy works made by shitlibs even though I know they are made to mock people like me. That being said, the creators of those works never receive a cent from me as I exclusively pirate such works.

>>96431910
I accept your concession, next time address all the points.

>>96435891
>AI has replaced entry level workers
It's incredible that AI fags believe this, when every single time they've tried it led to collapse of the company that did it.
It's worse than hiring indians.

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>>96436039
probably art of someones OC chapter. The artist does a lot of OC commissions.

>>96438222
>AI fags
>It's worse than hiring indians.
>implying they're not one and the same

>>96435841
No-no, he's right. Nu40k is exactly Marvel, and that's why it's so unbelievably dogshit.

Also, the scum writers who write BL novels also work on the same comics as well. Like Abnett. That explains a lot isn't it?

>>96436039
There is actually !Greek chapter - Iron Snakes. Though they aren't visually greek because they were created before the age of clown.

>>96436039
Oh, also Minotaurs, of course. But they are complete assholes.

>>96435771
The Imperium is something between feudalism in more granular ways (planetary governors may as well be kings) loosely bound together in a theocratic confederation at the macro scale since governors ultimately pay tithe (and ruled nominally by the God-Emperor, but with business devolved/delegated to High Lords).

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>>96438481
This only explains that you are a retarded fake grog full of bullshit.
40k has a strong herohammer* trait since 2nd ed. 3rd already got soap opera fights between named characters like pic related.
Abnett was already writing for BL in the late 90s and inspiring the Eye of Terror campaign that was redone for 7th as the Fall of Cadia.


*"herohammer" being the term a real 40k grog would use instead of "marvel" like a moronic late 2010s election tourist like you

>>96427866
This. "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!"

>>96429059
>Demons wouldn't get up to shit without people in shitholes and eccentric oligarchs to summon them though, that's the whole point...
Ah. Yes. Quite famously, it was mankind that made Slaanesh, along with the other gods of Chaos, and if mankind simply stopped having opinions of any sort, and any sort of power structures, and any sort of systems, and in general died out,t here'd be no chaos to feast on them. Very poignant, retard.

>>96427735
>many people seem to think it's perfectly justifiable to fight for "mankind" while some nobles live in palaces made out of solid gold.

Should countries stop fighting against imperialism because they have a corrupt government? Should Tibetans have laid down arms and allowed China to walk in to their homeland unopposed because they lived in a theocracy? The future existence of your people and freedom from external control is the first priority, you can guillotine rich people later.

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>>96438810
>>96429220
Name me a single eldar demon prince. The bulk of Slaneesh's as any chaos God's actual physical forces and worshippers are within the imperium. Even if you count the cock sword as xenos treachery it was still Fulgrim's choice to pick it up. You don't see any farseers going around to sacrifice 30000 souls to summon a keeper of secrets into the material realm and even the dark eldar try to keep themselves away from that stuff, though they do dabble in it from time to time. Ultimately Slaneesh would eventually run out of eldar souls to feast because most of them plainly don't worship her or go around chanting her battle cries in overcharged speaker systems
However Slaneesh does seem weirdly popular within xenos in a way the other chaos gods aren't which is interesting or might just be a coincidence

>>96439054
>Name me a single eldar demon prince
Croneworld Eldar no doubt have a few of those, but they're basically not canon, and the current chaos-worshipping eldar result is 'a corpse'.
>The bulk of Slaneesh's as any chaos God's actual physical forces and worshippers are within the imperium
Because they're the most notable and populous species of the galaxy, possibly discounting Orks who almost always are in thrall to their own two gods, and Nids who literally cannot fall to chaos. And because humans are the POV species. I sure do wonder why in a game where half the players play Space Marines, and the setting thanks to Horus Heresy is Space Marines versus Space Marines with everybody else second fiddle, there aren't a lot of stories focusing on races that have absolutely zero galactic relevance whatsoever, who still would be suffering from Chaos influence, psykers and so on.
>even the dark eldar try to keep themselves away from that stuff, though they do dabble in it from time to time
They get fucking EATEN if they dabble with Chaos. They still managed to create a Chaos god, which makes them responsible for every cult that ever summons a succubus, in an indirect way.

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>>96439054
>eldar dindu nuffin
Literally all the problems in 40k are the fault of the Eldar.
The only reason Chaos, Necrons and orks are an issue in 40k is because the Eldar did nothing about fixing that for 60 million years, and in the end they made it all worse by creating the Eye of Terror after 5000 years of final degeneracy, while generating the the warp storms that destroyed the DAoT human civilization.

And they still have the audacity of playing victim and larp as snobs tolerating the minor races, ffs. They all deserve genocide for what they did, specially the Dark Eldar.

>>96439313
I approve this message. And my favorite race is still the Eldar. Going to buy me a pirate printed Wraithknight this winter.

>>96439333
Well, good luck to you eldarbro. I actually like the faction, but I can't stand most eldarfags in this site bahaving like japs after WW2.

>>96429097
>We *know* that we're governed by the depraved High Lords, and all we have to show for it is squalid, cheaply-built suburbs, Walmarts, and masses of loathsome immigrants.
^
This man has Gnosis.

>>96439372
It's honestly sad.
>Eldar fans are cursed with the whiny bitches
>Imperium fans are cursed with the hurrr purge purge heresy imbeciles
>Chaos fans are cursed with the Look Mom I'm On My First Ever Rebellious Streak And I Think Anarchism Totally Works goblins who don't get that their faction IS the evil one, and they should be having fun with that instead fo trying to find ethical ways to wear human skin
>Ork fans are stuck existing with an endless flow of 'heehoo they're just silly green goobers'
>Tau fans
>Tyranid fans are also cursed with whiners confused why their generic chaff antagonist faction is generic chaff antagonists with no personality
>Squat fans do not exist
A tormented setting

>>96439391
>all players are idiots
I wonder why.

>>96427735
>when it's completely contradictory
because thats the entire point you stupid cunt

>>96427735
Why do people like you take this shit so damn personally?
It's not real. It's for fun.
It's like finding out someone likes Spiderman and then getting butthurt because "SPIDERMAN ISN'T REAL AND IF HE WERE HE'D BE A VIGILANTE WHO BELONGS IN JAIL."
At the end of the day, whenever people like you spaz the fuck out about it, I just assume it's because some twitter fad has you incensed about politics or some bullshit, and you're so constantly full of impotent rage that you endlessly look for shit to bitch and whine about.
Yeah, no shit the Imperium is bad. It's also not real, you retard. Any interaction with it is for fun, and is generally ironic.
You're seriously angry because you think liking 40k is a legitimate political standpoint, which is so blisteringly retarded I don't even know where to begin with it.

>>96438778
I'm aware of all this, including the term.
And that still doesn't make nuhammer any less of the shit worse than it ever was fluff-wise. See, I know the term "fluff", that means I'm da real grog like you, idiot.

>>96439054
>Ultimately Slaneesh would eventually run out of eldar souls to feast because most of them plainly don't worship her
Actually, Dark Eldar do. Yeah, they say they don't, but everything they ever do is the most devoted form of worshipping Slaanesh that has ever been tried.
More than a few Slaaneshi marines also learned from them, Bile being the most obvious.

Croneworld Eldar don't exist though, and they shouldn't, Dark Eldar are how eldar "worship".
They don't even worship their own gods, why would they do anything to Slaanesh? They only do what feels right to them, and that's the proper way.

>>96427735
I don't get what you're not getting about this.

>>96439776
>Croneworld Eldar don't exist though
Yes they do. Shriekers, for instance.

>>96427735
>muh media literacy!
Really?

>>96439844
They don't.
>bu-
Nulore, for instance.

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>>96439881
>nulore
And old lore did not have chaos eldar?

>>96439939
Old lore also had squats, zoats, and Illiyan Nastase. Where are they?
Choose.

>>96439958
>oldlore is squatted
>nulore is bad
We are not having any lore in this house, I suppose.

>>96439959
If you say so. But I'll take chaos eldar over shriekers, at least.

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>>96439958
>squats, zoats, and Illiyan Nastase. Where are they?
All 3 are alive and well in the current 40k setting.
But like most whiners, you really don't know anything about it.

>>96439982
Neither the squats, or Illiyan are the same as they were though.

>>96436968
I don't see the Imperium as especially fascist. They are more a play on totalitarian regimes throughout history but it's inaccurate to call them fascist because they prefer stability to progress and are not future oriented or progressive. Maybe the 30k Imperium is fascist. 40k Imperium is way too mystical, the racial heirarchy is broader humanity vs degenerated abhumans...

It's wrong to call it conservative because any number of traditional values are discarded for the sake of pragmatism, it is only really concerned with stability and tithes, not reform or tradition. Local systems woukd be any and every variation that can meet quotas, but above all: slavery. Slavery is a constant in 40k amongst almost every faction.

>>96440012
please stop being americanized and stupid about taking at face value the ramblings of fascists and mental gymnastics about the meaning of the term.

The imperium is 100% fascist, even if they're almost the least bad option (hence the existential horror of the setting):
> https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

>>96440053
Eco's list of fascism is bullshit though, since majority of the modern countries fit the bill lmao.

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>>96440012

>>96440090
The 3rd world ones?

>>96440107
The 1st world ones specifically.

>>96440120
The only one I'm seeing that from is the USA, and it explicitly rejects the liberalism of the rest of the west in order to orient itself with dictatorships like Russia.

>>96440012
>but it's inaccurate to call them fascist because they prefer stability to progress and are not future oriented or progressive.
Fascism explicitly reject future orientation or progressivism. It explicitly is past oriented with the focus being a return to a so-called golden age.
>the racial heirarchy is broader humanity vs degenerated abhumans
So you admit that the fear of difference is an extremely prominent part of the Imperium.
>It's wrong to call it conservative because any number of traditional values are discarded for the sake of pragmatism
>it is only really concerned with stability and tithes, not reform or tradition
Which ones? Several of The Imperium's ideological quotes indicate preference for tradition over all pragmatism. "Reform is the first step towards Revolution".

>>96439574
>You're seriously angry because you think liking 40k is a legitimate political standpoint, which is so blisteringly retarded I don't even know where to begin with it.
Not really im talking about people who make that discussion to begin with when the setting is obviously filled with dipshits. There shouldn't be moral greyness or stereotypical brave stoic heroism involved in it. The whole appeal of 40k is that everyone is straight the fuck up evil and mental so having people defend and larp for the imperium as some "justified evil" when most of it's actions obviously aren't aligned with that perspective is just baffling. The worst part is that GW would rather appeal to these types of faggots over a slimier setting.
>>96439391
>Chaos fans
The worst part about chaos fans is their tendency constantly playing the victim of circunstance card with every single one of their characters. Yes almost all of then were victims of something be it the imperial bureocracy or the emperor himself or poverty or whatnot but there's a line where that card no longer applies, specifically the one where you start skinning people alive. Angron and Kurze (imo the worst offenders of this) were given countless opportunities to redeem themselves and didn't, because they were assholes, it's that simple. It's why the Emperor's Children can be good because they are just assholes, not everyone in real life is some trauma ridden misery baby.

>>96440130
>1. The cult of tradition
Is omnipresent in every "western" state under the name of democracy and liberalism.
None whatsoever have proper democracy, and instead the cults of democracy. With politicians being the priests who readily band together against the threat to their power.
America hasn't rejected anything, if anything, their people are still among the most "free" comparative to the rest of the world.
>2 The rejection of modernism. X
That's a tough one, though even here I can simply substitute progressivism with upholding the status quo, which is what they're actually doing. Reforms to improve things are met with hostility, because coincidentally, those are all working methods of the past.
>3 The cult of action for action’s sake.
Don't think, do the jab, accept refugees, vote for X, support Y or else Z will kill us all.
>4 Disagreement is treason.
Self-explanatory. Dissident opinions are violently repressed on the internet level now.
>5 Fear of difference.
Aka fear of being racist for them.
>6 Appeal to social frustration. X
Also tricky, but everyone keep using "popular demand" as an excuse for everything.
>7 The obsession with a plot.
Globalism is the new plot.
>8 The enemy is both strong and weak.
Russia, nationalism, terrorism, etc.
I could go on.

>>96440053
The imperium can't be fascist because they aren't totalitarian at all. They CAN'T be fascists in practice because of how many planets there are, regulation is so bad that entire systems can get lost due to paperwork. Terra probably might be a little fascist but at large im pretty sure as long as you're paying taxes and aren't being a heretic the imperial higher ups are ok with your place being a feudal shitjole, a communist planet, a buncha ooga booga tribes or even a democracy.

>>96440246
>The imperium can't be fascist because they aren't totalitarian at all.
The fuck you going on about? Inquisitors quite literally say that "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time", Commissars are given license to execute anyone in the units they are attached to without trial.
>They CAN'T be fascists in practice because of how many planets there are, regulation is so bad that entire systems can get lost due to paperwork.
So like the fascist states which were terrible at functioning bureaucracies due to a combination of a belief of action for action's sake and purposefully setting up internal conflict in the belief this would create strength.
>Terra probably might be a little fascist but at large im pretty sure as long as you're paying taxes and aren't being a heretic the imperial higher ups are ok with your place being a feudal shitjole, a communist planet, a buncha ooga booga tribes or even a democracy.
The oppressiveness of individual planet's in The Imperium is directly correlated with how much control The Imperium has over the area. The democracies are the places where the Imperium's grasp is weakest, the dictatorships are where its grasp is the strongest (Hive Worlds and Forge Worlds for example).

>>96440222
>Self-explanatory. Dissident opinions are violently repressed on the internet level now.
He said, on 4chan.

>>96440289
>Commissars are given license to execute anyone in the units they are attached to without trial.
Cain literally explains doing this is bad because you have to write paperwork just to explain why you did an execution. Which is why he avoids executing people in the first place.
Besides, Commissars are communistic

>>96440693
>Cain literally explains doing this is bad because you have to write paperwork just to explain why you did an execution.
That's not a trial.
>Besides, Commissars are communistic
The Soviet Union didn't patent the idea. The Nazis created their own, independently.

>>96440289
>Inquisitors quite literally say that "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time", Commissars are given license to execute anyone in the units they are attached to without trial.
arbitrary punishments aren't the same thing as totalitarianism
totalitarianism requires the government/institutions regulating and actively exerting control regulating all or most aspects of the regular citizen life

>>96439313
You are wrong. It's humanity's fault. Are we going to ignore that the Siege of Terra is the event that actually created the Chaos Gods?

>>96440289
>The fuck you going on about? Inquisitors quite literally say that "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time", Commissars are given license to execute anyone in the units they are attached to without trial.
They can. Doesn't mean they do. Monodominant faction isn't the majority. Smart commissars also know it's not great for morale.
>So like the fascist states which were terrible at functioning bureaucracies due to a combination of a belief of action for action's sake and purposefully setting up internal conflict in the belief this would create strength.
You clown. Look at 1st world bureaucracies and enforced internal struggle between classes and races and say it again with a straight face.
Besides, that is not true for the Imperium, since they are very fundamentalist and try to keep things stable and suppress dissent, instead of dividing imperial people.
>The oppressiveness of individual planet's in The Imperium is directly correlated with how much control The Imperium has over the area. The democracies are the places where the Imperium's grasp is weakest, the dictatorships are where its grasp is the strongest (Hive Worlds and Forge Worlds for example).
Citation needed.
Besides, every planet is functional dictatorship, since each has a planetary governor. And dictatorship isn't inherently oppressive.

>>96440777
I believe we can safely ignore things that ?

>>96440289
The Imperium can't be fascist because fascism requires centralization of power and decision making and requires that all faction and entities in the state to follow the commands and directions of whoever is in power
The Imperium can barely be described as a state, much less as an highly centralized one
You have Inquisitor acting independently and without state overhead or control, you have SP chapters ruling over multiple systems , you have the Mechanicus being it's own thing outside the bounds of Imperium institutions and you have most planets being self rulling having their own laws and institutions with the only thing tying them to the Imperium is paying a tithe
The Imperium is much more of a feudalist theocracy than a fascist state, your problem is that you can understand that fascism and authoritarianism are not the same thing

>>96440868
Matt Ward said it was fascist.
Who do we believe? You or him?

>>96440910
That's an argument against fascist Imperium, anon...

>>96440718
>that's not a trial.
Paperwork is a trial in 40k, Kryptman almost got killed for not filing up his permit for exterminatus. Plus we got a Commissar trialed for literally flogging two men to death in Ibram Gaunt's series. Andd there's cases of Commissars being sent to penal legions for anything, be it disagreeing with a suicidal mission to wanting to execute Guardsmen for banal reasons. Even Commissars have sent to trial for sabotaging other Commissars, also Cain's case.
>The Soviet Union didn't patent the idea. The Nazis created their own, independently.
That doesn't change anything. Commissars are a Russian term

>>96440957
BL novels are bad examples for lore, especially the Cain novels.
If you want examples of how Commissars function and how they let them get away with anything, then read the 7th ED Scions codex.

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>>96440983
>"BL novels is le bad example-"
Don't give a shit. The Imperium is too culturally diverse to be fascist regardless

>>96441019
Not according to the guys who work/worked for GW....

>>96438778
>Abaddon Throwing hands with Eldrad
Man, I wish I was born in the early 80s. Shame I was born in late 90s

>>96441084
My guy. This is from the early 2000s.

>>96441100
>Early 2000s
Still shame cuz I was born right around the year 3rd Edition got released.

>>96427735
Are you asking how people roleplay?

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>>96441083
Not all of them, really.

>>96440777
that's bullshit fanon, at no point that happens in TEATD

>>96440868
>nothing is fascism :)))
you play semantics and word games with stupid american schizo definitions that nobody cares about or have even been real. By your stupid made up definitions no country ever was fascist, not even fucking Mussolini's Italy. You're like one of those commies talking about "real communism" never having been a thing.

The 40k Imperium is fascist as fuck on purpose, period. It being a mess doesn't change that.

>>96441345
>By your stupid made up definitions no country ever was fascist, not even fucking Mussolini's Italy
how retard?
that definition is based on how fascist governments operated and how the OG fascist described their system while they where in power
Everything was centralized and ultimately followed the directions issued by the party or the party leader/duce/fuher
Your problem is that you can't understand the difference between authoritarianism and fascism because you only know those things from entertainment pieces and fags that call anything they don't like fascism

>>96441019
- Based on a *actual* understanding of the word "Fascist" (not just a shorthand for "authoritarianism that I don't like") the Imperium isn't fascist.
>The Imperium is too culturally diverse to be fascist regardless
This would not be relevant in assessing whether a state is fascist or not.

>>96441394
there's no fascism without authoritarianism , and your retarded made up bs that not even historical fascists practiced is irrelevant.
Imagine larping as an intellectual and dismissing fucking Umberto Eco, lmao what a pseud retard

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>>96434626
The only good post in this entire thread.
The setting was conceived as nothing more than a cool setting for cool guys to fight other cool guys, not unlike what you and your childhood friend would imagine when playing with action figures on a saturday morning.
All the "people" trying to insert political commentary, in or out of GW, are retards suffering from terminal faggotry that should all set themselves on fire.

>>96441506
Yes, fascism is a type of authoritarian system, but not all authoritarian systems are fascists you retard

> fucking Umberto Eco
nevermind, you are just a larper

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>>96441579
Never trust people that use Umberto Eco for their checkmarks cuz they'll somehow infer Khorne is somewhat fascistic

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>>96441804
taufags and sigmarxism redditors being retarded and delusional does not make Eco's classic rules less right.

Btw read the Name of the Rose and The Pendulum of Foucault, you may learn something useful instead of terminally online poltard hot takes

>>96429220
Exactly! It took who knows how long for this galaxy spanning empire to create and fuel that thing.
And before that chaos was pretty much a nonfactor since humans spent like 30000 years in space ignoring it.
You think Nurgle could do shit and manifest in the galaxy if all the underhives were getting regular supplies of soap?

The Imperium as it is in 40k is a factory farm for Chaos.

>>96441804
He is.
Khorne worship among the Orks translates into authoritarianism and rigid discipline. They also wear Nazi like uniforms.

Well I have mostly liberal values and think human rights are sacred and think everyone should be treated with love and respect
except for people who play with unpainted minis, we need deadly extermination camps for those, and we should also teach school children to hate them and blame all of society's problems on these "people"

>>96441864
>"[Insert group] using it doesn't dismiss it-"
Doesn't matter the group, one can still dismiss it by how these points can be applied to any non-fascistic groups to make them look fascistic.

>mentions /pol/tard out of nowhere
Nice way to out yourself you come from there. What next? Reccomend me the Verhoeven adaption of Starship Troopers?

>>96427735
>You aren't fighting for the emperor, he's a corpse
Without Astronomican xenos eradicate humanity with little to no effort and/or chaos devours reality as we know it, so even if the Imperium is a bloated nightmarish dystopia, its final, complete collapse would be much, much worse than its persistence. Big Blueberry pretty much states this openly, so dunno how you missed that.

>>96441804
Skaven are stirnerites and possibly a little israeli

>>96431740

No. They generally are the ones who profit while the guardsman who actually has a sense of duty has all those things happen to him.

>>96436968
>The writers built The Imperium of Man to mock us rightchads

The current people running GW are anti-union right-wingers, and have been since the late 90's.

>>96442060
>"Me is Master Mutator, yes-yes, from Skavenblight! This is mine, mine Rat Ogre-thing!"

>>96442054

No they don't. The Imperium will fall, but the emperor's "humanité c'est moi" attitude is part of the problem, and the Imperium has to fall for that to go away. There are ways to get around the galaxy without the Astronomicon.

>>96443052
Those "ways" to get around the galaxy(which in reality it won't be going around the galaxy since it's cut in half) aren't that available to humans, at best rare. And I wonder what happens if the Astronomicon falls?
Oh that's right, Mankind goes back to Age of Strife 2.0, except this time it's gonna be worst, if we go by Imperium Nihilus.

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>>96427735
>VERY smart "media literate" anon on the roleplaying board is confused by the concept of having fun roleplaying

>>96427735
>chatgpt copypasta
>can't even put spaces between the paragraphs

It's only been 4 years since it went mainstream and AIfags are already such a fucking blight on everything.

>>96435891
And yet now countries are so desperate for bodies they're willing to import millions of foreigners just to get the birth rates up because it doesn't matter how many drone soldiers you have or AI Walmarts you're running, turns out in order to actually have an economy you need people with money to sell things to and the future belongs to those who show up.

Western oligarchs are retarded techbros who bought the merge lie and genuinely believe that they will somehow upload themselves into shiny immortal robot bodies that will rule over their empty land and somehow keep generating wealth even though there's no one left buying anything. Eastern oligarchs meanwhile recognize that even with AI you still need meat units doing shit to continue functioning as a country.

>>96444786
All oligarchs seem fucking retarded to me because not a one of them is spending even like 10% of their fortune on life elongation procedures, and they all seem to have no end goal besides "MORE MONEY"

Like, money exists to DO something with. Go build a supermine. Go make space infrastructure. Go make an ocean in the shape of your face. Why are you doing NOTHING?

>>96444743
turns out the easiest people to replace with AIs were the shitposters.

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>>96442182
you are a faggot. kys.

>>96440777
Based schizo spitting trips of forbidden knowledge

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>>96441506
>>96441864
>Umberto "THERE'S FASCISTS UNDER MY BED!!!!" Eco

>>96444743
>reddit spacing
Anon...