What's the problem with having a combat wheelchair in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
>>96434606can I also have a pick-up truck and an AR-15?
>>96434606Just pretend you have normal legs, it's fantasy after all
>>96434606What's the problem with having zero crippled people in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
>>96434606If you can be anything you want to be why would choose to be crippled. It's, as you said, fantasy.
>>96434606My combat wheelchair is motorized and also has tank treads and also i dont have legs im fused to the tank tread wheelchair at the waist and also im a druid
I remember when people used to put effort into their bait threads. Actually that's a lie, 90% of bait threads have always been low-effort. But my God man, you'll never catch any fish with so shoddy a tackle.
>>96434606depends on if we use raw for spellsis the DM gonna be a fag ebout everything or wut
I would be more okay with them if they didn't insist on using the contemporary wheelchair design that was invented in 1933.At least use historical wheelchair designs to make them seem less clashing.
>>96435055In theory, the idea of playing a disabled character is fine, but there's a few glaring problems with how the idea has been pursued in D&D, specifically.* D&D is a combat game. If you aren't, at minimum, operating at the expected combat efficacy the bounded accuracy calculations expect, you are a hindrance to the rest of the party and WotC has made zero considerations for what a less-than-optimal party can do about that* Despite wanting disability to be acceptable and normalized in D&D's fantasy world, they have chosen the least cohesive way to do it: an extremely modern looking wheelchair made by high level artificers that is indestructible and loaded with special enchantments and game rules that mitigate all of the complications of being paraplegic, including being able to float up stairs* Contrary to the claims of wanting representation, the advised procedures for handling wheelchairs and disabilities in games like D&D and now Daggerheart is... "Do Not Do That™" - as in, do not play to the disability. Do not knock the cripple out of the wheelchair. Do not take away the chair. Do not damage the chair. Do not ever put the chair in any situation where it would be considered a hindrance or disadvantage. Treat the character as if they were 100% able bodied and allow the Wheelchair to exist as a sort of cosmetic item.If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else. And also the Eyepatch gave them bonuses on a variety of skills. And also the eyepatch was indestructible and no one except his character can remove it. Also, as a free action, the eyepatch generates a forcefield and if he wants to he can upgrade it to shoot arrows. You'd tell that player to go fuck themselves.
>>96435820>If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else.Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
>>96435886So they can totally see fine and it's only decorative instead of something used for a handicap?
>>96435906>it's only decorative>an eyepatchYeah? You gonna make a blind wizard need a seeing eye dog in your game?
>>96435886And everything else?
>>96435921Yes.
>>96435991Fuck off
>>96434606>What's the problem with having a combat wheelchair in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.The problem isn't the wheel chair, it's the system.
>>96435063>implying the wheelchair wouldn't be able to fly
>>96434606You will complain when the evil wizard doesn't make his dungeon wheelchair accessible, and you will be insufferable about it.
>>96435933Literally only the skill bonuses and actions it grants are an issue. Unless you're the type of massive faggot that's gonna tell the alchemist they incur a 0.1m movement penalty for every potion they carry, a one-eyed marksman isnt a problem in the slightest.
>>96436130That's stupid
>>96434606Stairs, mostly. I doubt many ancient ruins or dragon's lairs are handicap accessible.
>>96434606For once, an honest answer. I'm bored enough.Aesthetically-wise, something akin to a combat wheelchair isn't absurd. I mean, having it be basically a 2025 wheelchair is as bad as the ranger having a hydration pack from a 21-century army, but I can imagine something more fantasy (I dunno, a flying carpet, a golem thing that makes you have a silver runed exoskeleton) working without much problems. Maybe could need some rulings to personalize it, possibly not for every class/character, but whatever.The problem is tonal. This is why people can't suffer the idea, not (really) muh SJWs ruining the hobby.DND is a power fantasy game. You are supposed to be a competent and badass adventurer, even starting out. This, quite honestly, means more badass than you are IRL: nerd, normal person or even gymbro*. Not Exalted-level of awesomessness, possibly not even Conan for the first levels, but yeah, pretty badass and ready to have a life of killing monsters in dungeons. Notice that this badassitude is still fantasy badassitude.Now, while you can (at least in theory) be, I don't fucking now, a warrior without an eye -more or less traditionally cool- or a crippled wizard on the aforementioned magical carpet -less traditionally badass and more similar to an IRL "common" disability. I guess-... why would you use something that signifies IRL constraints? THIS runs contrary to game assumptions, especially tonal assumptions. It's like having factory-made pills instead of magical healing. Why would you do that?*=yeah yeah, your warlock is probably less fit than an IRL athlete, but he IS badass enough in the narrative to get his feet wet with orcs' blood. Roleplay him as being fat and tired, but yeah, he is cooler that way than the people at the table.
>>96436148>That's stupidWell I happen to think one-eyed snipers are pretty fucking cool, akshually.
>>96436284I think it's cooler when the one-eyed sniper is able to make their shots even with the handicap.
>>96436338Ok. Ill put one hand over my eye while we play.
>>96436346Good
>>96434606The actually most retarded thing in RPGs, ever.I remember wanting to play a centaur as a one-off once, a long time ago, and my DM was simply, "No, it doesn't fit inside dungeons."
>>96435820>If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else
>>96434606>op picdisingenious question if you cant find the obvious answer from your provided image file.
>>96435886>Absolutely nothing wrong with this.Wrong. If you're missing an eye, you take penalties. Simple as.
>>96435820Pretty much. I've had characters play disabled characters before and it was fun because they did it as part of an actual character concept rather than just some obnoxious need for representation. As part of that they made sure the representation of the disability was appropriate to the tone of the game (no ridiculous modern wheelchair out of nowhere) and were happy to face challenges as a result of the disability.
>>96436716Do you lose 1 charisma if you're missing a testicle too?
>>96436800You'd also take strength and constitution hits due to lack of testosterone.
>>96436041that's more the problem though. Not only is the combat wheel chair in the game at all it's hilariously overpowered.
>>96434606Wheelchair lad here. It is blatant pandering and outright fetishization for a crippling disability. When I go to game I don’t want to be reminded that I’ll never be able to walk. I want to escape that shit even if for an hour.Some people may not see it that way but I do and I hate it because I don’t want to be reminded that I’ll never be able to take a single step in my life.
>>964346061: The original was an overpowered ridiculously unbalanced power fantasy/lash out by someone who wasn't even disabled long-term, and lashed out at people who criticized it from an objective standpoint. This has rightfully made it suffer a bad reputation.2: Why is a wheelchair okay, but characters who are disabled in other ways are not? Why is a mute character not acceptable? Why is a one-armed character not acceptable? Why is a deaf or blind character not acceptable? What about someone who is schizophrenic or delusional? Or albinistic, or even with allergies? There are overwhelmingly more examples of one-armed, blind, psychotic, or mute badasses in both real life and fiction.3: Why should I be expected to depict violence against the disabled in my game? If your character is not disabled that's a problem on its own since pretending to be disabled is a really shitty thing to do.4: Why do I have to include them? This is a world of dragons and magic, is the idea that there are no physically disabled people (especially in games that literally have no maiming or amputation rules other than vorpal sword decapitation) really THAT far-fetched? 5: It's performative inclusion, the worst kind of inclusion, where are the large print character sheets? Where are the large-print dice? Why are the books not formatted in clear and consistent ways with important game terms being bolded?6: >>96435820 Why is it given special protections? Why should YOUR character have special unjustified rules JUST for them? You might as well ban violence against women and minorities if we're going that route.7: Disability is not a superpower, calling a disability a superpower is one of the most offensive things you can say to disabled people, and downplays their difficulties in daily lifeAnd 8: Why is it touted as some kind of new and innovative thing when MULTIPLE systems have had similar things in them for DECADES? It's the D&D version of Disney's "First LGBT whateverthefuck"
>>96437083It's not even official D&D shit, it's someone's retarded homebrew that social media ran away with as some sort of super inclusive thing when it's not
>>96434606Because in a setting where magic can restore any injury, raise the dead, and commune with actual fucking gods, physically able the social justice warriors shoehorned a reminder of disabled people's physical limitations in their escapist fantasy. Like for real, thousands of players with actual physical disabilities hate this shit with such a fiery passion, but bleeding heart sjws pushed it because they know what's best.Personally, as a paraplegic, if I ever meet one of these fucks I will strangle them.
>>96437091The mechanics aren't, but it's in the official art.
>>96434606Because it's the most boring, least-fantastical way of playing a character whose legs don't work. The result of people who can't think of anything except modern day solutions.
>>96434606Are the chairs still overpowered to the point where you're nerfing yourself if you're not in one?
>What's the deal with combat wheelchairs?>I had a player wanted his character to be in a wheelchair, one made for fighting.>I said to him, "What kinda game you think this is you can fight in a wheelchair?">He looks straight at me and says, "It's a ROLL playing game!"
It's been 5 fucking years since this piece of shit homebrew came outmoveon
>>96434606For HIGH fantasy/steampunk games where everyone and their cat has access to godlike magics and tech, sure, no problem. In LOW fantasy medieval settings though, pic below is more appropiate, if you want to avoid being accused of being a witch and you and your infernal wheelchair burnt by the inquisition.
Hmm, so an indestructable weaponized wheelchair that can fly and is available to everyone? Are you a Dr Who fan?
>>96434606>he fantasizes about being a wheelchairSomeone introduce this anon's kneecaps to a shotgun.
>>96437514The people who needed it in haven't moved on from ruining printed media and discourse around the hobby.
>>96438006>the party is a witches coven in a low magic setting>they are part of the few people with healing spells but are persecuted by the local religion>since the party doesn't have any high STR or CON members they have to sneak around at night or blend in during the day to try to help patients>if they get lucky one can infiltrate a church as a novice sister and work their way up to give other players a heads up when inquisitors will appear
>>96436284>>96436338The most badass snipers would poke out their weaker eye by themselves to improve their aim
>>96434606Make it cool and then we'll talk. The default wheelchair brought up in these discussions is boring dogshit and I won't have that at my table.
>>96434606Reminder that conjuring magic force limbs or building cyberpunk-tier construct limbs are both infinitely cooler than these gay wheely shits
>>96434606I don't play D&D and the system my table uses balances magic items. If your character turns into a cripple, you can make a new one. If you ask nicely the GM might introduce it as an NPC when he needs a beggar, though.
>>96434606On top of everything else said ITT, the combat wheelchair, going by 'official' stats, is also poorly designed and overpowered as shit.>You would expect a wheelchair to inform on a character's capacities, nature and activities.Except the combat wheelchair doesn't restrict the user in any way, shape or form.Do you need to sacrifice your hands to push the rims? Nope, because it's powered by your mind, and magic.Do you struggle with obstacles like rocks, fallen masonry or fucking stairs? No, because the chair has built-in levitation magic, so you can also fly. And if needed, it can become a raft.Struggle to keep up with others? No, you can keep a 30ft movement speed with your mind, and actually bump it up to 60ft if you're going on any kind of downhill because wheels. Who decides how fast you go? You do of course.Maybe you're vulnerable to being grappled or knocked over? Acktually the fifth wheel in your wheelchair makes you super stable.Maybe it makes you easier to hit? Nope, +2AC and resistance to certain damage types. Or, you can give yourself permanent half or 3/4 cover.Or maybe you can't swing a sword as hard, being paralysed? Nah, you get extra damage, and the ability to knock up to 4 people prone. Also, by rolling up to someone and skidding into them, your wheel can do the same damage as a longsword. If you down them and roll over them in your movement, you do the same damage as a warhammer. And also, your attacks can impose disadvantage. Compare all that to a solid punch from your average, non-paralyzed fighting man.Makes you less subtle, perhaps, given all of the above? Actually, it can give you advantage on dex saves, acrobatics checks and stealth checks.All that for 200 gold, plus some 15 gold upgrades around the place.
>>96434606I like my fantasy games to not also be retarded and stupid.
The cult leader cackles madly as her foul magic gives new strength to your legs, and to your horror, you begin to move them again. "Now you will have to walk like the rest of us. Your identity is no more."
>>96434606Specifically, it's a fantasy where magic capable of fixing such disabilities is available in every town with a population larger than about ten thousand people.The only valid excuse for a combat wheelchair in an adventuring party is that the occupant is literally adventuring specifically for the purpose of gathering the gold to buy a casting of the spell which would restore the use of their legs.And even that has a HUGE glaring problem: how would such a character convince their adventuring party to carry them through a dungeon? Dead weight like that is dangerous. Being a literal burden on your adventuring party means you get a smaller share of the loot... if any at all. Disabled characters are NPCs left at home. They are the sibling you're fighting for. Not fighting alongside.And for the disabled who believe their wheelchair is such a foundational premise of their self-identity... That's dangerous bullshit and delusion. You are not your disability, and your emotional coping mechanism is not making you less disabled. It doesn't matter how happy you are, you still can't fucking walk. You will never play water polo. And you will never be in the NBA even if you learn to bounce a ball around. You're not gonna play soccer. No. Stop it.For the GMs who allow this toxic shit? You suck. You fucking suck and you're abusing your player(s). You're also failing your players if your game is so trivial and full of bullshit that adventurers can be disabled. That's not a game. That's kindergarten story time.
>>96436041... why does a flying wheelchair have... wheels...?
>>96438835>You are not your disabilityWrong.The wheelchair must be attached to you, always, at all times, even when you wildshape, you'll never be free of it, it doesn't transform because it's not your body: the wheelchair is your soul.This is the moral lesson that you'll never walk again, even in a setting where moderately powerful magic would let you, instantly and with no downsides.This why roleplaying games were created.
>>96438860>picrelLike I said earlier, remove the legs and replace wood wheels with tank treads and this instantly goes from unfathomably gay to unfathomably based.
>>96438887mecha t-rex tank
>>96434606The problem is that it's not done to be cool, it's done to be a fucking asshole by introducing a meaningless wedge issue where there doesn't need to be one.
>>96438860this is the most idiotic appeal to woke i've seen, and absolutely insulting to real disabled people. these people think someone like Ricky Berwick wouldn't instantly choose to change from a misshapen goblinoid to a normal human just because he's making the most of it in his current form. people don't want to be in a wheelchair, or enjoy rolling in one, its just a better alternative to dragging themselves around.
>>96434606the green areas are everything the stubborn, wheelchair-bound tiefling rogue who won't pay for healing can access. it is unclear how he got onto the ship in the first place.
>>96434606Nothing. There is no badwrongfun. Fuck off with your bait. Go play any game you want to.
>>96434606
>>96440236It's more impressive he's not sliding around on the deck and falling out of said chair, frankly, with how that ship is tilting
>>96434606Nothing, Its just the kind of person who would insist upon it.
>>96438796>All that for 200 gold, plus some 15 gold upgrades around the place.That's actually the most insulting thing about it. By their own rules, a character can just declare they have one "as part of their backstory" at no cost, whatsoever. Humorously, this also means that if someone is playing with the combat wheelchair splat, RAW, every player can just declare they have one "as part of their backstory" even if they aren't crippled.
Why does tg go for the same boring bait thread over and over again? Is this board just this low iq?
>>96444072Because it's fun to point out the retarded shit that the biggest game manufacturers churn out and expect to appeal to their customers? It's the forum equivelent of a normal human jousting with dragons.
>>96444072Because there's nothing else to do on this board in its current state
>>96436235I just find the whole thing galling. I've played with people with a few different disabilities. These were good games. Good players. But never once did they ever even consider playing someone with their own disability. They wanted to be warriors. thieves rogues etc. Because in their mind and their imagination they're not cripples. The whole point of the game is to be more than what we are. This isn't being more inclusive, this is saying to someone that they must always be defined by their handicap. When my friend Steve came to play he was a half elf archer and in those moments he could forget his physical limitations because they didn't matter anymore. If you honestly give this any thought at all it's obvious how insulting it is. How egotistical it is. How it exists purely for the benefit of the person who included it to let them think they made a difference to let them stroke their own sense of self superiority. Can you honestly imagine, explaining the game to some child for the first time, explaining how the world is limited only by his own imagination, how he can be anything he wants to be, and as you watch his eyes light up and his imagination begin to race, you look down to him and say "Oh yes and also there's a wheel chair so you can play too." Disgusting. They should be ASHAMED.
>>96434606What's the problem with having a knight driving a ford mustang in your d&d games ? It's fantasy after all.
>>96440919Just strap armor onto it and make it into a steampunk tankette
There's a difference between playing a crippled character and fetishizing disabilities. Combat wheelchairs unironically fall in the same category as furries, vore and stuff like that, they are just a bit more sneaky about it. It's a disability-without-drawbacks just for the sake of fulfilling someones fetish.
>>96445556>What's the problem with having a knight driving a ford mustangNothing. Go play a game.
>>96434606Just zoom and boom. That's what combat wheelchairs are for.
>>96434606If I found a lamp with a genie in it, I would wish for you to die horribly three times over.
>>96434606Serious question, does anybody outside of shitposters on /tg/ even remember that the combat wheelchair exists at this point?
>>96447052Not even shitposters on /tg/ get it right. They're not even published D&D material--just homebrew. Complaining about them is like complaining that "Weresnails" were a thing for WtA in the 90s, because a mildly prominent forum for it had rules posted for them.
>>96436029Generic systems tend to be much better at representation.
>>96445366I was watching something about the Yakuza games and the guy put his entire video essay script on hold for a portion of the video to talk about how the lead writer has "problematic tendencies" towards disabled people. Namely that the villain of 7 is a guy who cured his unnamed condition that put him in a wheelchair since childhood with experimental drugs, and also that a kid in the pirate game wanted to cure his asthma. This became a side tangent about the pernicious habit of writers to make disabled characters that want to be "cured" with emphasis and implication that we, the audience listening to him, should understand that disabilities aren't things to be cured and fixed and that it's ableist to believe that disabled people want to be able to see and walk and live without chronic pain and severe hindrance to their ability to do things.While that is all obviously fucking retarded, it was a little eye-opening when it comes to the blatant disability fetishism we see displayed by the diversity and representation crowd. They have somehow twisted themselves into such complex ideological pretzels that they have begun to believe that disabilities are not disabilities. They want everyone to think of "wheelchair" as if it were a race or gender. Like it's an identity on the same level as any other innate biological quality a person can have, and thus does not need to be changed, fixed, or cured. Blind people don't need to see. Deaf people don't need to hear. Paraplegics don't need to walk. You're supposed to think they are perfect the way they are, and also that they are just as equal and capable and not at all hindered by their obvious inability to do many things that able-bodied people do naturally. And then, once you accept that insanity, you are supposed to think that it's just natural for heroes in a fantasy adventure game to be wheelchair-bound.
>>96448095No I don't think anything that you just said is true.People with disabilities criticize media for representing disabilities as something to be cured, rather than dealing with what living with disabilities looks like. Not "because it's ablist to want to be cured."I think you made up the parts you didn't understand.
>>96448111The person dictating these beliefs was not disabled, if that clears things up. But he was doing the typical>ermmm yikes? that's kinda heccin problematic that your villain didn't want to live in a wheelchair all his lifeKind of sanctimonious pearl-clutching that the activist and ally crowd loves to do on behalf of a group they aren't part of for virtue signaling points.
>>96448125The point of the ablist "criticism" is that it's shitty to use disabilties to earn empathy from viewers/readers if, instead of honestly portraying what having disabilities looks like, you take the empathy and then handwave it away, later.So no: I don't for a moment believe your misunderstanding.
>>96448146Who said anything about empathy? Did you actually read the post? Because it was very much not about portraying disabilities realistically and that wasn't even a point that was brought up.
>>96448162I read it, and you misunderstood whatever you watched.
>>96448166Do you even know what I watched?
>>96448181Nope! But I know what you said and it's clear you misunderstood it. Incidentally, if you'd like to find out why the overwhelming majority of advocates for the disabled aren't? Take care of someone you love who is.
>>96448222So you're literally making up an argument on behalf of something you don't know about to make a point about disability advocacy. Do you think you're being witty or are you just bored and desperate for attention?
>>96437497>>He looks straight at me and says, "It's a ROLL playing game!"Damn it Carlos, I chuckled...>>96438462>Reminder that conjuring magic force limbs or building cyberpunk-tier construct limbs are both infinitely cooler than these gay wheely shitsYou could at least make an Animated walking chair!
>>96436029>rules support since 1986GURPS really does have everything.
>>96434606My character is a vegetable and no one complains. Last session he won a participation award at the local lord's fancy ball, and a nice lady praised his pirouetting.
>>96438860Whenever I see the image of the disabled wolf I'm taken back to every druid ever who at one point will have said "I'll transform in to a dog/cat so I can wander through town without suspicion" and how that idea is instantly crushed by still being the dog-cripple on wheels from Babe 2, or Herbert's dog from Family Guy.What if you transform in to something with no legs, do you get any wheels? Many legs = many wheels? If you're two legged do you still get a chair, like a t-rex in a wheelchair? Or if you're an octopus, does it transform in to something water apprioriate, but more wheels? What about a giant spider? I mean, they don't have spines right, so how can the spinal cord be severed in that case meaning you need a wheelchair?
>>96446004This is not a ford mustang. Pic related is. If wheelchairfags don't want this in their game, they're hypocrites.
>>96445366I dunno man. It's thinkable, I guess, but I get your point. But I mean, I'm clinically depressed and wouldn't do a character like that in DND (or, fuck, in Broken Compass for that matter). If you want to, tough, maybe consider a tiny bit of tone in the game? One thing is a character doing the usual lone wolf drowing his sorrows in alchool*, another would be your thief getting industrial pills fto be functional.*=which is actually a terrible stereotype, but I mean, Elric doing drugs is or at least was a thing, so tonally would more or less make sense
