What do you guys think are the most useful skills for a player character to have? I'm largely talking about non-class based games here.Obviously it somewhat depends on the premise of the game, but for the most part there's quite a few that are going to be pretty much universally indespensible across every premise and even every historical era.>Movement>Stealth>PerceptionThese three are probably the trifecta of the most important things a player character being might be capable of, at least from my experience with the medium. It pretty much single handedly allows them to dictate the terms of engagement and cheese their way through the most difficult scenarios.But then again if you really think about it, it's not like humanity in real life is the fastest, sneakiest, or the most perceptive, and yet they're still the most powerful species on the planet. So what exactly is it that brought them to this point, and is it even relevant in the context of a TTRPG?
>>96436287Nope.
>>96436201If there is a Spot/Notice/Perception skill, that tends to end up as one of the most important, at least for one person to have, because avoiding ambushes, noticing hidden objects, and just generally being aware of your surroundings tends to be useful no matter what your goals are.I wouldn't really call it cheese either, because it ultimately just prevents you from missing out or getting screwed over.Movement and stealth are nice, but they have the problem where you can only really move at the speed of the slowest PC, and you are only as stealthy as the clumsiest.
>>96436201Really depends on the game. Some games have non-skill ways to circumvent the need for movement/stealth/perception skills. Some games break those into sufficiently small categories to make each individual skill much less relevant for the opportunity cost, even if the broad categories are still very useful.Aside from the broad issues with skills, stealth depends heavily not just on the specifics of the game, but how the game master has things set up. Sometimes a single good stealth result means your character is practically invisible for half of the session, sometimes it feels like the GM is making you roll every 10 minutes to see if you finally fuck up.To address the last point, humans benefit from a complex social structure and intelligence to pass down information on how to perform these tasks, and the ability for particular individuals to specialize in specific tasks, rather than needing the broad spectrum for every individual. When you factor in our ability to move long distances without getting horribly fatigued, and to manipulate the environment to suit us, no shit we're running the planet.
>>96436614You can just let them face the danger head on until they die and then flee safely. Let nature run its course basically.
>>96436201Athletics is probably the most commonly needed skill. Even the social butterfly or aging scholar may need to run, climb, or lift things in a crisis. You can outsource your perception, your knowledge, your combat prowess to other PCs, but when shit hits the fan you probably need to do your own running.For myself, I like to take Empathy/Insight and Investigation. I love digging into NPCs' (and PCs') psychology, since my group makes interesting characters.
>>96436201It's always the Perception skill.
Perception - Stealth (Physical Detection)Insight - Persuasion (Social Awareness)Lockpicking/Hacking (Disarm Device)First Aid & SurgeryRide/Drive/PilotSwimmingCraftingCommand/NPC recruitment
>>96437314No running or climbing?
>>96437352Very few systems have a 'run' skill and climbing can generally be handled by sending one character with the skill up and having him drop a rope down.
>>96437392>Very few systems have a 'run' skillI personally can't think of one that DOESN'T have that, often lumped into a general purpose "athletics" skill. Though strangely enough climbing being separate from athletics is not uncommon.
>>96437405>I personally can't think of one that DOESN'T have that, often lumped into a general purpose "athletics" skill.I can. >5eAthletics is specifically climbing, jumping, or swimming. I don't play 5e but as far as I can see there is no skill to run faster. I don't know what a GM is supposed to do for a chase encounter and athletics seems like it would be a reasonable houserule but RAW no run skill. >4eHas athletics but again, specifically for climbing, jumping, swimming and escaping for a grab. Compared to 5e the rules are notably clearer about how the skill can be used with all the DCs laid out - nothing for running. >3.5eClimb, swim, jump are separate skills in 3.5e but no run. >PathfinderAdds a 'fly' skill to 3.5e's climb and swim but nothing for running.>2eThere's an optional rule for running and jogging but that's an action, not a skill. There's also the optional rules for non-weapon proficiencies and if those are in play then warriors can pick up running.>Dark Heresy et alRun is an action any character can take, not a skill you take advances in.>RunequestSkills for climbing, jumping and swimming again (as well as specific skills for butchering cows, preparing corpses and sensing assassins), no run. >Call of CthuluTfw when I'm midway through a campaign and I've never opened any of the rulebooks. There's no 'run' skill on my character sheet though so I assume the skill doesn't exist. >WFRP 2eAgain, run is an action rather than a skill. This system only has skills for the important things like 'consume alcohol' or 'torture'.Shit, bro, other than Shadowrun, what systems do have a run skill? Or even an athletics skill that impacts your running speed?
>>96436201Depends on genre, dude.
>>96438877DH et al. and WHRP derive movement distances from agility. So you just purchase Ag advances instead.Also there is a Sprint talent that doubles your movement when running. Having that and a decent Ag makes your run speed so hilariously fast that it's pointless to go higher though. Literally las char I played in OW ran 72 m on a turn.
>>96438934>DH et al. and WHRP derive movement distances from agilitySure, but it's not a skill. Compare, say, charm, it's based on fellowship but it's still it's own thing.
>>96438877L5R 4e, EoTE, Exalted, WoD, Shadowrun, Song of Swords, WFRP 4e...
>>96438877GURPS!For dungeon crawl games, it works like this>When Running Away! (Exploits, p. 22), roll against the higher of HT or Running to avert fatigue, and the better of DX or DX-based Running to avoid obstacles. Use the higher of Will or Will-based Running for Extra Effort (Exploits, p. 20) to increase running speed.
>>96438877>Or even an athletics skill that impacts your running speed?Anima Beyond Fantasy with core exxet
>>96436201>It pretty much single handedly allows them to dictate the terms of engagement and cheese their way through the most difficult scenarios.So does Diplomacy/Persuasion/Fast-Talking if the GM is running the game properly.
>>96439571How are you going to talk to an enemy if you failed your perception check to notice them?
>>96439571How are you going to talk to an enemy that doesn't speak your or any language?
>>96439571>anon never heard from again after he tries rolling for diplomacy against mindless zombies
And just how do you expect to run away from a faster creature?
>>96441284>perception so you see the creature first>stealth so you can hideplus in 90% of games the surprise round is absolutely busted, so that's reason enough to try to get it as much as possible>athletics/running when all else failsof course this relies you to be playing a game that does have a way to run away.Also in decent systems movement types do matter so even if the creature is faster, maybe it's not good at climbing or jumping over obstacles.>what if it's stronger, faster, smarter, can jump better, doesn't want to talk, and has bigger numbersthen you die. There's a reason OP said "most" scenarios, not all.
>>96441551>what if it's stronger, faster, smarter, can jump better, doesn't want to talk, and has bigger numbersthat's a lot of the animal kingdom, and yet they're still all our bitches
>>96441736>animal kingdom>smarterI added smarter there for a reason.
This very issue has given me fits for as long as I have been into TTRPGs.Do you know how many mundane skills an 'adventurer' would need at their most basic? Able to walk very long distances without rest. Able to scrabble under, over, and through shit in a pinch. Always aware of their surroundings (great at preventing instant death). Then there's the host of skills needed for camping and wilderness survival. You're going to hit a river or body of water at some point, and your boy doesn't have the most basic swimming lessons? We haven't even gotten to things useful for surviving combat yet, and we're already way past what most games even give you to invest in a character. Even if we offload as much as we can on to a hired NPC wilderness guide (adult daycare style with sherpas who haul rich people up mountains and their corpses back down), that still puts the typical starter PC way over budget. And most systems are pretty tight assed about attribute allocation that 'basic fitness' is one of the first things to go in optimizing a build (as not optimizing puts you below threshold for default encounters). What do you even do about th- Hahaha just kidding. I can't remember the last time a DM put such challenges in front of players. Probably because no one ever has them.
Well at least we can all agree that combat skills are for cucks.
>>96442393
>>96436201At least one weapon.
