Tear Throat Edition>Previous thread:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93579002>Official Website:https://massifpress.com/lancer>Mediafire (Books and LCPs)https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0txhhkaj3y7vg/Lancer>Retrograde Minishttps://retrogrademinis.com/https://mega.nz/folder/aMslAKxI#UNjxW7xB2RMqbLZqCWqpUg>Comp/Conhttps://compcon.app/#/>Useful tools and Anon's Guide to Lancer in Foundryhttps://pastebin.com/vKnrQTJ9>Newest Releaseshttps://pigsriot.itch.io/blood-moneyhttps://7thsealgames.itch.io/bleeding-hussarshttps://belram.itch.io/the-sixth-voiceTQ: What's the craziest new build you can think of now that you can use your pilot as a weapon?
>>96440880> TQ: What's the craziest new build you can think of now that you can use your pilot as a weapon?The only thing I can imagine while picturing this is a mech literally pulling the pilot from its chest then catapulting it across the battlefield and then going splat on impact.
>>96440901There is the Eject action. not even an inviable strategy, going splat might require some help
I always thought getting rodeo'd and not being able to deal with the pilot was the most aggravating thing, so someone who constantly rodeos enemy mechs would probably piss off the GM to no end. I imagine black thumb would pair pretty well with that.
>>96440901Idea, a pilot of a Size 3 mech, who is wearing a size 1/2 mech while inside and piloting the size 3 mech.The little mech detaches from the big mech and gets launched
Had a session this weekend. Running a very personalized take on Wallflower. My PCs have loaded up Contingency White's ship (RIP crisis responders), and will be blasting off into space next session. I've wanted to run this bit for a couple years now, and finally the time has come. Got some Hiroyuki Sawano tracks to play, and I'm working on some other effects to help sell the idea of high-G maneuvers in debris-choked orbit.>>96440880>now that you can use your pilot as a weapon?Did some new talent or system get released? I assume you mean something beyond the Jockey action or using the pilot's weapons while on foot.I half expect this is a bait thread, but I'm going to post in good faith and hope for the best
>>96440880In terms of melee damage, is the level 3 Hunter talent better than the level 3 Duelist one? That's how it seems to me, but I'm a noob and our game isn't even at LL2 yet.
>>96442538>Had a session this weekend.it sounds like that must have been a lot of fun, how have you handled the... "moral choice" of the game? curious how it's being handled>Did some new talent or system get released?in the OP, it's the 2nd link under >new releasesBleeding Hussars, huge catalogue of new pilot gear and some extra rules. bunch of people have been banned from the typical lancer spaces for it online
>>96442680>spoilerOkay, I know this gonna invite the usual but what the fuck for?
>>96442700>Okay, I know this gonna invite the usual but what the fuck for?mods claim it's because they're associated with 4chan and have their own server called "SecComm"
>>96442700we frequent the board.and yes, our own discord is called that
>>96442700It's mostly bullshit excuses mixed with blatant ad-homenim, the usual when it comes to pilot.net and the subreddit. If you're familiar with them and most lancer communities this shouldn't be surprising.
>>96442680>moral choiceDo you mean the choice between Hivehome or Evergreen, natives or colonists? Especially after REGRET ? Between my rewrites ("This could be solved by a single conversation") and the PCs being the goodiest of goody-two-shoes, they just smashed through that with the power of friendship. Heroically browbeat the organic belligerents into an alliance. Which is funny, because the replacement PC and several antagonists are shocked that it worked.Admittedly, there was also some weirdness with one player having to leave and their absence throwing off some key plot and theme elements. I had hoped to delve deeper into the locals' psychology and backstory with that PC, and the others were not as interested or suited for it.Unless you meant a different moral choice.
>>96442930>Unless you meant a different moral choice.nah you got the right one. cool that it worked, nice to have a party that cares about doing the right thing is sorta rare, I feel. that might just be me and my friends, thoughcool! always curious how other groups deal with some of the weaker plot points of that book
Two related questions;How often do you find combat goes beyond the usual 6-round limit suggested by most sitreps? I'm torn, because 6 rounds simultaneously doesn't feel like enough time for a serious combat, but also most players seem like they're slow enough on their turns that even 6 rounds feels like kind of a slog.Secondarily,I've been toying on and off with implementing some kind of morale/fear system in Lancer, and possibly a manufacturer that keys off it. But given the shortness of combat, does implementing the ability to demoralize enemies and force them to retreat even make sense in context?
>>96440880This is that weird commie mecha RPG that resents mecha, innit?
>>96443817Yes. For people who set out to create a "mud and lasers mecha RPG", the creators of Lancer, and frankly most of the game's core community, are weird squeamish about actually making the game feel like it's about big violent robot fights where people get hurt and die. The core community also lives up to every negative stereotype about Discord communities, and then some. The game is pretty fun but not without flaws.
>>96443842>The game is pretty fun but not without flaws.Gotta disagree. There's not a single thing it does that another mecha TRPG doesn't do better. Hell, even Nechronica and Princess Wing offer better mech experiences than Lancer, and they're not even mecha TRPGs
>>96443903I enjoy it for what it is, it's why I made Bleeding Hussars. Are there things that could be better? sure, but I'm working on that. AGE Hack makes it feel more like Armored Core, someone else said it reminds them of Code Geass, I think it could be cool.
>>96444250>I enjoy it for what it isSo sayeth the fly snacking on a shitpile.
>>96442679Anybody? Is there a lot of hidden damage potential in free Grapples and Rams that I'm not seeing, other than knocking the other guy down which you can do with the level 2 talent anyway?
>>96444297I think it's about having a lower opportunity cost, generally. I won't say it's damage potential so much as it is the amount of debuffs you can stack on the biggest, baddest guy on the battlefield.
there's a lancer general now?Huh. that's a surprise. Whenever a lancer thread went up over here it usually turned into an open-air sewer by like, the 2nd or third post.
>>96444545The previous thread link is from 2024, and I've seen this exact thread get posted and then deleted before, so who knows.Also lancer threads die fast anyway because there's not much to talk about other than drama and the community mostly isn't here, for obvious reasons.
>>96444545>>96444582we have other places we go, anyway. someone felt compelled to make a thread, talk about some of the recent stuff.relatedly, what do we think of Blood Money? Base building, job setups, making mercenaries feel gritty in the world of Lancer, it's different tonally from anything else we've gotten so far.
Is the hex grid obligatory to play this game? I have a bunch of friends into wargames and I feel like Lancer could make for a good bridge to ease them into ttrpgs. We have models and scenery to spare, but can you just use inches or centimetres to play the game?
Been making my own setting for a campaign I wanted to run but I've been on and off fleshing it out and adding details. Anyone interested in hearing the details?> Captcha: GXS0Y
>>96444617Lancer is one of the few TTRPGs where maps and hexes are mandatory. In fact it's arguable that a VTT is mandatory since it has so many rules and interpretation that needs to get sped way up with automation, but in person with a hex map works alright.
>>96444640Darn, I was hoping we'd be able to just use our usual 40k tables, but whatever, I guess I'll get the mat
>>96444617inches works just fine, anon
>>96443817Yeah. You fight for the big lgbtq good guy communist empire that's expanding and pushing into the Periphery to tackle the evil chud cis white nations and bring them to heel for the crimes of..... "wanting to be left alone and not bending over and sucking her brown penis".Don't worry about failure, it retroactively never happens because the lgbtq empires magic queefbot ai was actually running that session as a simulation works to correct the outcome so you get to go again till you succeed.Don't forget that any setback the empire suffers is retroactively undone.And don't worry about losing your mechs, or taking damage, you can always print more.>the kickerThe mechs are just showing pieces for propaganda, the real fighting is done by fleets firing paracausial weapons from galaxies away with pinpoint precision.It makes more sense when you realise the writers have complete disdain for any mecha media.
>>96445221>anons were given a setting where you can roleplay literally any mecha fantasy ever while feeling like a big damn hero>still whines that setting doesnt assume that player can be a fascist pos and murderrape his way through the gamethis is why we cant have nice things
>>96444640>you SNEED hexes and VTT integration!!!!At that point why wouldn't I just play Btech?
>>96445221>The mechs are just showing pieces for propaganda, the real fighting is done by fleets firing paracausial weapons from galaxies away with pinpoint precision.ok hold up dumbass, this isn't completely true and you know it.To anyone not aware, while this isn't completely wrong, it ain't completely true either. In part because those big, fancy, EXPENSIVE warships have this nasty tendency to fucking obliterate each other in combat resulting in mutual kills. This results in commanders instead using a bunch of smaller ships instead, which also has a tendency of being just as fucking expensive. That's why things like the Caliban exist, for boarding operations on those big honking warships.
>>96444545A while ago some anon made a discord then the entire lancer general migrated to that discord. Now the thread only pops up from time to time, like the flying dutchman emerging from the sea to collect more lost souls.
>>96444582We could talk about the games we have been in. Even if most of the community is elsewhere, Lancer still gets more play than most mecha games on /tg/, save for Battletech and possibly Heavy Gear. God knows I've had more Lancer runs in the past 5 years than all other mecha in the previous 15.>>96444604I kind of stopped following 3rd-party after Suldan, but you're making Blood Money sound cool. What would you say are the better supplements that have come out?
>>96443903There are countless things other systems excel at over lancer, but lancer has them beat in 2 factors. 1 - accessibility, COMP/CON and the ease of using first, second, and third party content, build crafting, etc.2 - general use, lancer is a kitchen sink system that gives you an okay feel at just about every kind of mech or mecha experience you could want. A more focused game would be vastly superior at any one of those experiences, or two possibly, but lancer's ability to give you everything in a just kinda okay to decent manner is its biggest strength. A jack of all trades is a master of none, but is often still better than master of one.
>>96441271That's why in my groups game we house ruled it so that pilots take double damage from mech weaponry.
>>96444250>why I made Bleeding HussarThanks for that anon. That was something Lancer needed.
>>96440901>that episode where the captain told achilles he had to call it a 'rootin tootin rodeo' every time he shot himself out of the chest canon
>>96443680morale and fear could work as gauges on players but I would caution against making it a core part of a new LCP beacuse that will make either the catalog or the new mechanic feel parasitic>>96445221I was a space pirate that fought the union
>>96447028>I kind of stopped following 3rd-party after Suldan, but you're making Blood Money sound cool. What would you say are the better supplements that have come out?as a biased actor and the creator of Bleeding Hussars, I'd say the latter is also quite good. I went in with a "why does a pilot shooting another pilot with a rifle only do 3 damage?" and made rules to make it feel bit better. now it's a potential 4 to 9 damage, which will pulp any unarmored chump you come across. Much more real feeling, then we added equipment to match. plays like titanfall on the table, or maybe HALO.>>96447275>Thanks for that anon. That was something Lancer needed.'preciate that, anon. I plan to keep working on it, even though we've been deplatformed officially everywhere else.>>96446992>Now the thread only pops up from time to time, like the flying dutchman emerging from the sea to collect more lost souls.it was like a lantern in the fog before, people who knew where to look always found us. now the way is blocked. we'll find a new one.>captcha: YNYYY
>>96446300Because Battletech is a very different style of game. It doesn't play the same. Also, as already mentioned, you don't actually need hexes or VTT for Lancer, it just makes life easier. I've run it purely analog before.>>96447075Yes. And those factors mean that more people are willing to run a game. More people will commit to being players. I've had tons of people bounce off Battletech, be confused by Armour Astir, or shy away from statting up their ideas in Mekton. But I've been able to get a dozen people into Lancer so far.>>96447264Lol, meanwhile I make pilots Difficult to hit (in addition to cover) when they are jockeying, so they aren't quite so squishy.
>>96447075>1 - accessibility>COPE/CONfucking lmaoRequiring a proprietary VTT just to play the fucking game is the opposite of accessible.>2 - general use>lancer is a kitchen sink systemIt's really, really, REALLY not. It can't handle weirder mechs like Dunbine, Eureka 7, or even just Macross. Hell, it can't even handle Gundam or Titanfall all that well.
>>96442236Much as I would love to see a Goblin get hit with the fastball special I don't think it'll have the Hull to survive impact.
>>96447851>Requiring a proprietary VTT just to play the fucking game is the opposite of accessibleIt is when its free, (relatively) easy to use, and the majority of players use laptops anyway.>Hell, it can't even handle Gundam or Titanfall all that well.You're hung up on specific series. It's mech genres we're talking about. You can play big stompy robot, you can play fast agile robot, you can play all metal and gears, or you can play magical girl nonsense. Just because its mechanics don't 1-to-1 track with the specific mecha design of your favorite mecha anime doesn't mean it can't ape that genre.
>>96445925There's better games than your shitty 4e clone, games that actually feel like mecha games and are not written by plant milk latte slurping political ideologues.>>96446880>"it's not true">"except it is"Iirc those "boarding craft" are shat out under their own power to try and get into position to intercept a massive hunk of metal going at a semi decent fraction of the speed of light. They pretty much just disintegrate on impact or miss and then sit about waiting for recovery >>96446992It suffered from anyone not toeing the line being banned - said you like one of the no-no factions? That's a ban. Pointed out the uncomfortable elements in the diversity empire? That's a ban. Unsurprisingly people stopped going.
>>96447954>It's mech genres we're talking about.I named a handful of titles that represent a different spread of genres and aesthetics. You should know this.>Just because its mechanics don't 1-to-1 track with the specific mecha design of your favorite mecha anime doesn't mean it can't ape that genre.Right, and DnD is the perfect system for a cyberpunk game.
>>96447954You know its bad when the zombie loli game does mecha better than the supposedly purpose built (totally not a dnd hack we swear guyz) mecha combat game.
>>96447954You shouldn't need a Laptop to play a TTRPG.
>>96448019>It suffered from anyone not toeing the line being banned - said you like one of the no-no factions? That's a ban. Pointed out the uncomfortable elements in the diversity empire? That's a ban. Unsurprisingly people stopped going.That's the official discord server. AFAIK the SecComm discord is still kicking.
>>96448058>the SecComm discord is still kicking.always will be.
>>96448048>You shouldn't need a Laptop to play a TTRPG.Nobody NEEDS it, but it helps. Battletech has tons of these tools, saying you shouldn't need one as if your own preferred systems don't have their own is just hypocritical.
>>96448041>Right, and DnD is the perfect system for a cyberpunk game.You're missing the entire point. Lancer isn't the perfect system for capturing all mech stuff, but it imperfectly captures most of it, and its penetrable to normies due to the its VTT, online tools, and free support. Lancer IS the D&D of mech games, and that's the point.
>>96448532>but it imperfectly captures most of it,It really, really doesn't.>its penetrable to normies due to the its VTTEveryone who has ever told me that has been the most terminally online freak, so forgive me for not believing you. >Lancer IS the D&D of mech gamesIt's really not. Battletech has more of a claim to that title than Lancer.
>>96448545>Battletech has more of a claim to that title than Lancer.it fucking sucks for something like Macross or Code Geass mecha, it has none of the speed or volume of affects that feels appropriate for either concept.
>>96448561>it fucking sucks for something like Macross or Code Geass mechaOh but anon, it has a freely accessible VTT and online tools! Just because its mechanics don't 1-to-1 track with the specific mecha design of your favorite mecha anime doesn't mean it can't ape that genre!
>>96448561Battletech would unironically be way better for Macross than fucking Lancer. You'd have to crank out some homebrew to represent the different configurations of a Valkyrie, but the fact that BT actually HAS rules that meaningfully differentiate the movement of a jet fighter vs that of a mech already puts it leagues ahead of Lancer.
>>96440880So, I actually like the D&D 4e kind of "this game is a GAME" kind of design, I just think it's not balanced very well. Their principles are spot on, but the two main problems with Lancer are 1. That the balance is just amateurish, and 2. That the lore is at odds with the supposed gameplay concept.I keep hearing "Mud & Lasers" this, "Lasers & Mud" that, but where the fuck is that in the core book? Fucking nowhere.It's just an endless diatribe about communist space politics that reads more like fucking Hc Svnt Dracones than anything else (Except gayer, somehow), and then, suddenly, you're in character creation selecting a mech even though the mechs have like no lore presence.The world-building isn't COMPLETELY shit, it just needs a rework from the ground up, and it needs to be written from the perspective that this is a mech game, not a political bureaucracy simulator.Also, there for sure needs to be a total mechanical rework to the skills and their interplay with the mechs. Honestly, the skills should likely just be axed completely and rolled directly into the mechs, because most mechs require certain skills anyway. May as well not make it optional if it fucking isn't.
>>96448648This is honestly what I'm hoping to achieve with the AGE Hack. A lot of the game has just been reconfiguring all of the existing balance points, although not with any consideration to what is BALANCED rather than fun to play. The existing mech-building elements are already fine, so it's just fiddling with numbers until you get something that feels like it'd exist in the world. the political part is a more complex problem to solve, but I mean... well, we're working on that, too.
>>96448679Honestly, I think you're wasting your time.So much effort would be required that you may as well be making your own game for scratch. No reason to slave away for the benefit of an IP owned by people who'd hate you and played by people who'd hate you.It's just too thankless and stupid of a chore to go through.
>>96448704but anon, we're not doing it for them.
>watch some YTslop on dagger heart vs whatever coville's game is>both games are just lancerlmao
>>96446992Oh shit really? Anyone got the link to it then? I mean, if I gotta go through those older threads for a link, but if I don’t gotta then I’ll take the quicker route.
>>96448929The siren signal beckons a lonely vessel...https://discord.gg/pnjYhrSVsV
>>96448615It sounds like lancer might just not be for you. That's okay though, there are plenty of other systems, and you don't have to be here shitting up this thread. Have you tried >>>96442171?
>>96448019>better gamesLike what?
>>96449347No. You lancerfags, of all people, have ZERO right to complain about people talking about other games in your thread.
>>96449359You can start with this anons post >>96443903, Nech and Princess Wing are both better able to do a mecha game than Lancer.After that? Embryo Machine, Mekton Zeta, Mechwarrior, and the dozen other Japanese mech rpg's come to mind, and thats not with me thinking deep into it. Head over to the Mecha Monday thread.>>96449347>"Dont come to our thread and talk about none-Lancer games"Kek. No. You fucks happily shit up other threads with your dnd hack slop, you do not get to cry when people do the same to you.>>96448648Dont forget how theres no actual cost to your mech or components, it just gets lmao shitted out of a 3d printer, courtesy of queefbot, because the space brownoloid empire is post scarcity or something, so there is literally no reason to fight other than to be on your ideological crusade against the chuds.
I mostly play Battle Century G, and while I am not particularly looking to switch systems, I am curious as to how these system differ. (To my knowledge, both BCG and Lancer are the two mecha systems to rely on grids the most)I should clarify that I am asking more on gameplay mechanics than anything lore related, as I just make my own settings anyway. And while I've heard it compared to 4th Editions of Dungeons and dragons, that doesn't really mean much to me as I don't really play any addition of DnD.
>>96449838from my cursory knowledge of BCG, Lancer has a lot more swing. You can go from losing badly to winning overwhelmingly really quickly, since the curves in your dice are really really flat. Even with the Accuracy/Difficulty system, the curve is really minimal, so there's a lot of variation in your performance. There's also just very minimal pilot influence over mech performance, which I've heard BCG is sort of prized for. Can't speak much more on it past this point, though, I'm not familiar enough with that system to make any big judgement calls.
>>96449838Lancer is just DnD larping as a mecha game because the creators despise the entire mecha genre.
>>96449838Be prepared for disappointment. A Lancer "mech" is literally just a fantasy character pretending to be a mech. no component damage, no system loss. Just a stack of meat points that auto-heal in a "long rest".
>>96449895>You can go from losing badly to winning overwhelmingly really quickly, since the curves in your dice are really really flat.That makes sense. In BCG components of a mech can be maimed into being nonfunctional. So generally the winning mech has an advantage outside of a certain build that loves getting maimed. But it's not all a snowball. Losing a threshold lauer the first time in a session gives a genre point to players. And the existence of the tension system (the damage everyone deals increases by 1 after each round passes) means a losing mech can still turn things around. Or you know, die faster so the gane can progress.>There's also just very minimal pilot influence over mech performance, which I've heard BCG is sort of prized for.There isn't terribly much any overlap between pilots and mechs. The most is your pilot's genre powers, which is what the system's metacurrency is spent on. But even then what you choose for your pilot's genre powers is more or less tailored to whatever mech you built.>>96449927Anon the amount of times I have played DnD can be counted on one deformed hand. I've never even ran it before. I have experience with Savage Worlds and variation of Cairn than I do DnD.
>>96447576Have you tried not being deplatformed? Seems remarkably easy, considering.
>>96446300People like playing Btech?
>>96449813Your posting would be interesting if it had merit or use, you don't even argue well it's all copeposting or cringe posting. You can't format arguments based in any sort of critique that's useful or use basic comparisons to cite your unstated and unsatisfactory concept of a theory. Other than shitposting, what's the point? Being overtly hostile doesn't convince anyone of anything except that you're a moron.
>>96450260People like playing Lancer?
>>96448648>where is that the core rulebook>mechs have no lore presenceSo how often do people do this thing where they don't open the book or read it here?
>>96450293I've convinced several tables to give a shot, who would not under any circumstances ever try btech. As someone who loves giant robots since he watched gundam wing when he was 9, I think btech and other simulation / wargame mecha games do a terrible job at pitching giant robots as anything other than tedium.
>>96450310Go ahead and post a screenshot of how the lore section of the core book gets into the mech lore.It literally mentions that mechs are used during the Hercynian crisis. What's the Hercynian crisis? Doesn't care to tell!Everything that has to do with mechs is literally contained within the descriptions in the equipment. It's blisteringly retarded.Go on, try and prove me wrong. Doofus.
>>96450462Well, you see the Hercynian crisis wouldn't be mech lore, that'd be like an event. I dunno why you're trying to play a gotcha, but at least address the thing you're talking about. In fact you then hand wave literal mech lore, like about their gear, their purpose, how people use or like them just because its... in the equipment section?
>>96450516There's a fucking long, long description of the game's lore. In the core book. That you're accusing me of not reading.Fucking GO IN THERE and POST some mech lore. Dipshit.You want to be so goddamn smug about how I 'didn't read it,' then prove me wrong. Pussy. You know you can't. So, shut the fuck up then.
>>96450325>I've convinced several tables to give a shotProbably because it's basically just playing DnD. Not hard to convince people to play the game they're already playing. But if you're going to do all sorts of gay VTT integration that automates the fiddly maths you may as well play a game that ISN'T dull as dishwater.If I'm going to bother to convince people to download compcon or whatever, I'd rather just turn them on to megamek instead so we can play a real mecha game.>I think btech and other simulation / wargame mecha games do a terrible job at pitching giant robots as anything other than tedium.Good thing there exists plenty of actual mecha TRPGs that are less crunchy but still feel like a mecha game. Embryo Machine, for example, mogs the shit out of Lancer in every single field.Better mechanicsMore interesting settingBetter customizationBetter chargenHell, even just the fact that your gender can actually impact the game mechanically due to the mechanics of how the mechs work is leagues more flavorful than anything Lancer has to offer.
>>96450536See, this is just classic deflection combined with having a meltdown. What is "mech lore", exactly to you man. It's not even smugness, it's just factual that you are wrong to suggest "but where the fuck is that in the core book? Fucking nowhere."
>>96450616>this is just classic deflectionNTA but you're deflecting just as much as him. If mechs are so prevalent in the lore they're not, 90% of the lore pages are about what color onesies the globohomos wear or how nothing you do actually matters because any meaningful change to the setting is just the fever dream of a half-retarded communist gangster computer god you'd be able to BTFO him with an excerpt. But you can't.
>>96450608Classic btech guy who says a bunch of platitudes, then ends it with crossing his arms and saying something utterly stupid. Do you people even read the stuff you write? I love how you even start your comment with an assumption, just awesome argument.
>>96450642I'm literally not deflecting, he's wrong about his statement that there isn't any lore about the mechs in the core book. It's just wrong. It also doesn't mean he gets to whine and cry and move the goalpost to why isn't there any lore about the mechs in the section that starts by saying "The following section briefly explores the history of Union from its foundation to the present day, and from Union's own point of view. It is a setting guide intended to be used by players and GMs.... For players use this section as a text from which to draw character inspiration. Whether that means working within canon, against canon, or in the margins of what is established by the canon is up to you.For GMs if like your players you wish to work within, against, or beyond canon this is where to look when you need to find out how things work in the Lancer Setting."
>>96450616I'm going to break this down for you, and I'm even going to try and not me angry and insulting about it, even though you're pissing me off.The core book has a lot of stuff in it. It has character creation rules. It has equipment. It also has lore, for the GMs. The history of the Union, the history of the setting. Other than the descriptions of the mechs, the mechs literally only get mentioned, practically off-handedly, one time.Now, okay, maybe you can say that the mechs have descriptions, therefore, that counts. I don't think so.The mechs are presented as almost an irrelevant afterthought to the wider universe. Sure, they exist. But they're not worth mentioning when it's describing the wider universe. Isn't that bizarrely fucked up? It's like if magic wasn't part of a fatasy universe except in the spell descriptions. It's obviously an indicator that the priorities of the writers were completely backwards.It's a game about mech combat, meanwhile, when it's describing the history of the universe, the worldbuilding, the political tensions, etc, they mention political bureaucracy and space battles. No mechs. What even is a lancer? "The best mech pilots, famous!"Okay!What conflicts?!Hercynia, which is described in like one or two sections.What else?Well, there isn't anything else. Not a single motherfucking fact about where mech pilots actually fit in. Fuck, even in the descriptions of the mechs themselves, it's frustratingly vague.It's totally ridiculous. It's an obvious mistake.The fact that you have to pretend to be fucking STUPID and you don't have the nuts to go verify that what I'm telling you is true, is fucking insane.The devs themselves literally acknowledged it as a problem, in their OWN FUCKING WORDS, because this was a known issue with the core book. That's why the KTB book addresses it and actually makes mechs part of the culture of that polity, instead of just an afterthought.I KNOW you're full of shit. Idiot.
>>96450646Nice deflection, I'll accept this concession and since I am overflowing in beneficence I'll even address all your cope-fueled deflections. >>96450646>who says a bunch of platitudesLancerfags offer nothing BUT empty platitudes. Y'all say the dumbest shit like "Lancer is the DnD of mecha" and then admit to knowing neither DnD nor mecha TRPGs. >I love how you even start your comment with an assumptionIronic, considering you assume I'm a "btech guy". I've only played a handful of btech battles through megamek, but it was enough to convince me btech is way better than Lancer. It wouldn't be my go-to for mecha though, a little bit too fiddly for my tastes. Hence why I focused on Embryo Machine, which you oh so conveniently avoided addressing because you're too ignorant and low IQ to have anything to say on the matter.To address the complaint you passive-aggressively dropped like some sort of bitchy troon, literally half this thread is just glazing copecon and saying it's solely responsible for "expanding mecha to da normies", which is why I brought up megamek. Megamek offers everything and more than compcon offers, and for a much more interesting game system besides.
>>96450684It's like, if in a game where you play as a Navy Seal, you go to read the worldbuilding section that describes the universe, and it just rants about the civil war and the modern neoliberal economy, then, once time it offhandedly mentions "BTW, Navy Seals killed Bin Laden." and moves on.It's fucking stupid.If you're playing as a Navy Seal, you'd expect that you could find info about them in places other than the equipment section. Why the fuck am I playing as a character who is evidently a tertiary aspect of this universe? Why the fuck is a game about being a """Mud & Lasers""" mech game so fucking shy about describing where they fit in in Union and Cradle? Where the fuck do Lancers even COME FROM?You're not expected to know, you're not expected to give a fuck.The game's priorities are just fucked up.
>>96450684So you admit that a vast swath of the setting doc has fuckall to do with mechs, or even with where you're expected to spend the majority of your gameplay since the Union is far and away from the mudfarmers that you're oppressing.Thanks for agreeing with me, lil bro.
>Run No Room for a Wallflower>get about halfway through it>realize it's terribleGod. Who designed this? It's so bad. Why are the PC's even here? Literally nothing they do makes any difference at all.
>>96450719A double post and still no genuine argument. No citations from the book, not even an attempt at defining what "better chargen" even is, for example. Mixed in with some hackneyed insults for good measure. Then you sidetrack, put up another game for deflection and then double down. At least give me a reason to be like "y'know I really like running the game because of the tight kits and synergy the NPC classes have with each other" maybe even include an example or two of sessions. But you've got fuck all, really.>>96450723You have a mental illness, you just asked the equivalent of "where do delta green agents come from" or "where do fighters come from"
>>96450786You show up to be ferried around.You're supposed to stand there going "WHOA! This setpiece is cool!" without actually effecting anything. You literally play as a mute killer who just does what they're told, and that's it. Your role in the story could be filled by any random soldier. Hell, the Hercynian Rangers could have done your job for you. They're cooler, and they actually have motives, too.Unlike the players, who are expected to just randomly show up and start taking orders immediately.
>>96450808>A double post I used 4chanX because I was too lazy to copypaste and forgot to delete one of the reply backlinks, sue me. >and still no genuine argumentGoddamn you're deflecting hard now. If all you have to offer is empty platitudes then I guess we're done here.I also find it real fucking funny how you're using the common lefty tactic of tone policing instead of addressing the actual topic at hand. DEFINITELY not beating the allegations on this one.
>>96450830I'm asking you to provide an argument beyond stating "well, it objectively has better x or y" and you're just... not doing it? Yeah you're done here because you aren't even engaging with the basics!>>96450786>>96450812"If the players choose to mount a second assault and fail, or if they leave the zone alone, the zone continues to grow. Over the course of the next month, the zone spreads out across hundreds of kilometers of Solo Terra. At this point, it disappears, shearing reality and taking a huge chunk of the continent with it. Anyone not killed by the zone’s expansion suffers the result of this excision, and Hercynia is thrown into a deep ice age following a period of cataclysmic global fires."?
>>96448706Well, you know what, I hope you have your fun.I'm not telling you to do something else as an insult. I just genuinely think it'd be more rewarding to do something that will be, you know... Rewarding?Nobody who actually manages to like Lancer despite its flaws is going to like you trying to fix things. They're going to take it as an insult, and spit in your face. So, I just actually feel bad for you and think you deserve better than that. For real.That said, do what you want. I can't stop you.
>>96450852>Your success or failure finally makes a difference in literally the last fight.Oh, okay. Lit.
>>96450857I appreciate the concern, but I spend so much time in other less hopeful settings that tinkering with something that has a glimmer of something going right eventually helps stave off the dread. I like tinkering with a Hollow Knight adaptation for Genesys, for example. I also just really like the conceptual core of the setting and I feel it'd be rude to essentially rip the existing idea without plagiarizing large swathes of what's there. womp womp.
>>96448704By that argument, the folks who made Snoot Game were wasting their time.
>>96450852>well, it objectively has better x or yIf you want me to go into more detail you could've just asked instead of being tsundere for better games than Lancer. I'm not gonna waste my time writing a whole essay on why Embryo Machine is better when you've already revealed how disingenuous and slimy you are, especially when I already gave a brief overview and a direction on where to look for better games to any third parties watching us argue since I know you're a lost cause. If you want to be spoonfed a little more since you refuse to look at anything mecha that isn't abbybabby approved the Momentum System in Embryo Machine is a stroke of genius that it puts it so far above anything Lancer has to offer it's not even funny. I'll leave the rest to you to discover if you actually care, but seeing as you're a politically captured freak I doubt you'll due the legwork I paved the way for.
>>96450894>lancerfags are animal rapistsDEFINITELY not beating the allegations, lmao
>>96450904>why Embryo Machine is betterit's a card game. it offers a completely different experience than Lancer does. I will give it one thing, though, it's quick to play... although you don't really control what game you're playing, as much.
>>96451012>it's a card game.Holy shit, this disingenuity on display is obscene. Next you'll claim Tokyo NOVA or Princess Wing is a "card game" despite both being more mechanically intriguing than Cancer
>>96451038unless I'm thinking of something else, you draw your actions from a pre-generated deck. your 2 moves of the turn is determined by the hand you draw and how many your opponents shoot out of it. I spent more time trying to mill for a move card than I spent doing any real damage, more than once. making your own deck is way better, but play-as-intended can be really teeth-grinding.
>>96450904NTA, I'm getting annoyed on your behalf.Even from just a historical kind of lens, saying that Lancer is basically D&D is on the money. It's a D20 system, after all. You're not the first person to compare it directly to 4e. It's accurate. It's also accurate to say that, if a game requires a VTT to play and a character builder to create a sheet, then it should've just been a video game.Personally, I don't mind if a game gets so complicated it requires aids to play, but if a game is that complicated, it should be that complicated because there's a significant amount of crunch, not because the developers were just inelegant, sloppy, and lazy at their 4e clonejob.
>>96451086the online tools for lancer only really help you look through your existing options faster, you can make all of your builds and stuff with paper and pencil like anything else. it's not even complicated, the arithmetic burden isn't as high as people might be implying.
>>96451052>unless I'm thinking of something else, you draw your actions from a pre-generated deck.So yes, you're just completely ignorant and talking out your ass. Congratulations, you've actually managed to tilt me a bit by the sheer retardation on display. I'm not going to handhold you through how wrong you are, but I will tell you you've somehow completely misinterpreted how Embryo Machine actually plays. I'm going to assume this is misinformation that the Lancer discord told you because I can't conceive how you'd end up with such a completely wrong interpretation of the game if you'd actually read it for yourself.>>96451086Yeah, it's honestly annoying as fuck. I can't imagine saying a game that's just a modified 4e NEEDS a VTT and not just going for a more mechanically dense system with a better VTT instead. And while I must stress once again that Btech isn't my go-to system lest Lancerfags try to claim I'm a "btech bro", Megamek is great for how much it automates the fiddly bullshit out of btech and lets you play a more complex system without needing to consult multiple tables and roll buckets of dice. Once again, Lancer has basically nothing to offer that other mecha games don't do better.
>>96450904Yeah man, the skirmish board game that uses a kingdom death style hp pool is really breaking the mold on a literal mech rpg. I even read through the rpg to make sure you really weren't just trying to fuck with me but even the EM RPG just eschews basic skills of pilots into a generic pool for basic roleplay then does a grid style combat where you resolve things. At this point I think you people would praise lancer if it just had hit locational damage or something. What am I supposed to see as innovative here, exactly? The -2 if you're in a different elevation? Am I supposed to be excited about using relatively interchangeable gear? Are the generic frames that you bolt on your chosen gear then "name" the type of mech it is supposed to fill me with awe? Is it round organization between shooting and melee? I'll give it this, it seems cute but you could just as easily strip the lore out of this and bolt it into any mecha game you wanted.>>96451086The VTT and Compcon are just helpful book keeping, especially for online play. If I could play in person I wouldn't even bother I could just use existing grid maps
>>96451186>somehow completely misinterpreted how Embryo Machine actually plays.That was my experience playing it, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I just had shit games, but each Embryo Machine has its own deck of Stuff and you play using that deck for the EM.>P00V0
>>96451186>I can't conceive how you'd end up with such a completely wrong interpretation of the gameI dug around a bit. I never knew there was an RPG for this, I only ever was introduced to the idea through the skirmish game they had made. it looks cool.
>>96450786Why are the PC's even here?This is why when I played it, I generated a PC from the colony. Specifically one of the Graytowns, because those were the folks that had the most skin in the game and the most to lose.Plus, it was fun to work with my GM and help fill out the gaps in the lore involving the colonials. Like, part of the reason the colony is overcrowded is because of the attacks by the natives. The colony has had to shift printer production over to war materials instead of hab-block construction. This in turn allowed us to give flavor to the colonial milita who used a hodgepodge of kitbashed equipment. For instance, mechs with tread legs al a Armored Core because it was easier to mount a mech torso to a working tank chassis rather than print a new set of legs. We also had the milita use more vehicles that were cheaper to produce like Stugs and other self propelled guns for their armor. We also ruled (using rule of cool) that they used stuff equivalent to Bradleys, BMPs, and BTRs because we felt that if there were any open source armored vehicles that could be printed it would be similar to cold war era to present day stuff.
>>96450904what is momentum in fetus apparatus?
>>96451227Lancer innovated with having an original action economy , heat economy ( which works well for players but I think attacking heat is not very well implemented) and notably the generic action list. Other people are keeping the cordellion action economy of 3.5 and 4e but borrowing lancer's target numbers and generic actions.
>>96451420Lancer innovated none of those things.
>>96451523where did lancer steal its 2+1 action economy from? What other setting has heat magic?
>>96448532>Lancer IS the D&D of mech games, and that's the point.I'd also say this, but in the most derisive way possible.>>96448633If you just rename heat to something like "pilot strain" or something else more vague, and give everyone improved jumpjets or partial wings it gets pretty close. Everyone thinks battletech is a game optimized for battleships but it's 100% workable for extremely fast dodge-focused mechs as well.Anyway lancer is a mess. It's a destiny fanfiction that has to be continuously corrected back to mentioning mechs like they're embarrassed to be writing them. Almost as embarrassed as they are for being white. It's not even really much of an RPG either. It's hyper-optimized DnD character building and nothing else.
>>96451420I wasn't really commenting on Lancer, which I find fun and run. I was criticizing how Embyro doesn't really spin anything new, it packages it in cute ways but the most "new" thing about it is the lore.
>>96451420>Lancer innovated with having an original action economylol
>>96451869how is this statement untrue?
Ah, lancer, you never fail to bring out the bitchiest on this board. Both sides. >>96440880Thanks for the links tho. I’ll flip thru bleeding hussars throughout the work day.
>>96451420>heat economyHol' up my lil' nigga, whatchu runnin away wit there?Heat economy in mech games originates in Battletech which predates lancer slop by roughly 35 years. It's been copied by other mech rpgs as well, most of which predate lancer.The action system and "generic actions" is nearly part for part lifted from dnd.>>96451552Unironically dnd. 2 actions (move and combat) plus one free action.>>96451236You played the board game, not the rpg. An easy mistake to make, rectified by 2 seconds of googling.>>96448532>comparing lancer to dndThat's nothing to be proud of.
After reviewing the arguments on both sides, I have declared “mecha RPG” a failed genre and point to the anger in this thread as a reason. Mecha RPGs should be about having fun with your bros, not trying to be some sort of weird flag raised in honor of a shared memory or some old guy’s legacy. That new Starfinder mecha game will be our best bet. I wish you all a happy Tuesday and goodbye.
>>96454256>comparing lancer to dndIt's not something to be proud of or ashamed of really. Just something that is, which helps articulate why Lancer has the fanbase it does. Would I rather play Nechronica, sure. But could I get my normie friends to play Nechronica with me? It'd be a lot harder to convince them to play the zombie loli game.
>>96454627Nah, we got wares blade now. We're set.>>96455914The last refuge of defending any group activity is saying it's the only thing your friends are willing to do, which is pretty sad. I feel like a lot of people would shit in their hands and clap if it was the only thing the knuckle draggers they hang out with were willing to meet up for.
>>96456468Sad but true. But there is only so much you can do when it comes to what normies are interested in. I ran a Dark Heresy demo oneshot not too long ago for a public ttrpg event, and I got maybe 4 people. We had a blast, but compared to the around 20-30 people who showed up for various D&D games, it was pretty sad showing. Especially since I had fully painted terrain and miniatures set up in a big display table, while one of the D&D GMs the next table over was running a module he was literally reading straight from the book for, while he had a ChatGPT tab open in his browser. Yet his table had 7 people and mine had 4.
>>96454256disregarding this post for thinking that cordellion action economy and lancer's double/triple standard action system are the same. Also, why are you talking like a donkey kong?Ironically I dont think healers work in ICON beacuse of the lancer action economy not having swift actions like 4e
from what I've seen this just makes me want to write my own mech game
>>96442947>always curious how other groups deal with some of the weaker plot points of that bookWell, since the thread has devolved I don't mind going into some spoilers. As a general rule, I avoid modules, because they never seem to meet my needs as a GM. But I got into Lancer during the beta, when Wallflower had a lot of neat ideas that were still being nailed down. The finished product (or half of it, ha ha ha) wasn't great, but by the time it came out I'd already decided to use the book as a rough guideline and take advantage of all the fan-made assets like maps. I made further plot adjustments as I recruited my players and determined what they were interested in doing with their characters.First, I de-emphasized the conflict between the Hercynians and Evergreen. They speak mutually intelligible languages, so the misunderstandings can only go so far. "Why did you send a robot army to kill us?" "There's a robot army out there?!" In its place, I had one of the NHPs (Mendicant-2) trying to false-flag both sides into war. The PCs figured this out during the hunt for Venom, clashing with a Hercynian patrol that was also hunting the sniper. My PCs wanted prisoners to question, which meant that they didn't kill any of the locals, and that paved the way for an accelerated diplomatic solution.>nice to have a party that cares about doing the right thingOur initial PCs were a skinny spacer kid that was a budding Empath (designed/piloted pic related, though token made by another player), a geologist (and eventually human-egregorian hybrid) from Evergreen, and a badass pirate-hunter whose family had just joined the colony before the fighting started. The kid got up to some Gundam-tier melodramatic "We're not your enemy!" shit, which was a big help to bringing peace between the colonists and natives. The other PCs, once they realized the misunderstanding, backed the kid up.
>>96444250Hello, anon. I'm the guy who maintains the Mecha Monday pastebin. Do you mind if I add your link in there?
>>96461076that would be excellent! please feel free.
>>96449813Do any of those systems have Parakekual bullshit though? Because the Pegasus hack license build still makes my dick HARD, anon
>Join the Discord>It's still full of turbogay queer-first personalitiesBoy you almost had me convinced Lancer wasn't fucking doomed
>>96461941You didn't even pass verification to get into the server. I don't know how you could make that judgement without even interacting with a single person here.
>>96461972Too many visible pronoun profiles already
>>96461989ok, dude.
>>96461995I've got autogynephile ptsd, please respect my triggers
>>96451137>>96451086Anyone who actually needs COMP//CON to handle their rolls and bookkeeping for them should've just played a videogame instead of a TTRPG in the first placeIt's a really pretty and nicely organized bit of software but I was all but done with building my character and mapping out my first 3 LLs (complex powergamey per-level talent/license swaps included) before I cracked it open in my first ever campagin
>>96444624If you're still around I am interested. Missed your post the first time around
>>96461941I dunno why people freak out over the discord like they don't have an entire page in the book ranting about how playing the game itself is inherently antifacist action, it's designed from the bottom-up to promote gay communism, and that they apologize for being unfortunately white, straight, and not retarded.They say outright, the game was made to "help people fight back". Not to be fun or anything silly like that lol"in solidarity" fucking christ. This isn't even a game, it's a communist daycare center with gay robots.
>>96462094It's set in the diaspora, predominantly in a colony I named Sterling, as you can see on the hex map overview I created here >>96444624The basic summary is: After Seccom collapsed, there were a bunch of holdover revolutionaries and random nobodies looking for work that IPS-N were keeping track of, as well as leftover colonists from a failed settlement they still had tabs on. Northstar decided to hedge their bets and think long term - they rounded them all up together and gave them an opportunity to colonize a valuable new earth-like planet they found far out there, sent a colony package with them and basically told them "Alright, you'll be on your own and in exchange for your own independent colony we get dibs on economic development in the system you'l be living in. We'll come back in a century or two, hope to see you making good development progress. Good luck!" While the corporate was handling internal affairs in the upheaval aftermath of Seccom.It's been a couple decades since then and they've established themselves, but the planet turned out to be really harsh: If it's name "Tempest" didn't give it away it's got quite the active weather systems, and even without that the wildlife is quite nasty and belligerent on average too. Thus, it's been slow going in terms of development, but progress is still happening, albeit slowly.Unfortunately, there's numerous other problems besides tempest herself: there's rumors of pirates lurking in the system, as well as a growing disgruntling in the colony. See, the two distinct factions: union revolutionaries and the original colonists don't exactly see eye to eye when it comes to independence, governance, community and whatnot, and a hefty amount of unrest is brewing. It's not gotten hot just yet, but a spark might cause things to start igniting.That about does it, anything you want me to elaborate on or give feedback for?
>>96462232I spent an entire childhood reading alt-sci-fi from 50+ years of literature where even having a functioning body or mind wasn't a necessary prerequisite to inclusion, I guess. Where utopia was taken for granted (or not) and entire several hundred page novels would be dedicated to exploring how someone might transcend the limits of the human form to more fully express themselves, cast off- Not "fight back" the eternal fucking FIGHT in these people -cast off gender norms or disability or human limits. Autist savants and multi-minds and full-body cripples and extreme PTSD survivors. Exploring new stars, fighting the good fight here in our own solar system, dealing with the complex calculus of possibly being the last possible living human colony and sharing a planet with giant moths whose lifecycle includes an existence as an omnivorous horde of unstoppable brainless truck sized murder slugs. I grew up fully ready to accept any damn fucking configuration of race, color, creed, capability, ability and preference imaginable.Those fucking FAGGOT GHOULS are wearing the skin of my fucking revolutionary scifi fantasy childhood with their militant (in)tolerance, clique bullshit, special snowflake cold war intersectionality victim contest- Every player I interacted with in a semi-private setting on that server turned out to be some kind of sex pest flayed one trans-enby nerd.So forgive me, if you would. I thought that page meant we should be empathetic and thoughtful and strive for a brighter future.Not compete in the queer-lympics to see who can be more marginal and get more attention and sympathy.The told me the world was a cold and cruel place, and I thought I was ready to be the shining light in that darkness- I never knew the world was gonna be this fake and gay, too
>>96462392You need to realize, Anon, that you are on their side and always have been. Just because you don't like the queerness doesn't mean you aren't trying to rebel into the new rather than accepting the established. To you, these people you don't like aren't revolutionary enough. If you had your way you'd go further than even they would.The real mature thing to do however is learn that this path you're on isn't a good one and never was. It's full of lies and broken promises and people who will take advantage of your idealism. You need to accept this and actually think about what it is you really want, because the nebulous ideals of "a brighter tomorrow" are a trap for creative minds to languish in self-righteous circlejerking.
>>96462501You're not gonna blackpill me just by pointing at the most vile echochamber cesspit of autofellating queer-for-clout hugboxing to ever exist, man.I still think it's chill if you're a homo. Half my friends are homos. It's just not a fuckin competition. "Technology should lead to more personal freedom and greater quality of life for all" doesn't have shit to do with "militant queerness" and you know it, gayboi
>>96462532> Technology should lead to more personal freedom and greater quality of life for allHey wow what do you know, exactly the lies I told you about. It's like you don't have any reading comprehension at all.
>>96462543The fact that you think it's some sort of gotcha to pretend I mean that as an inexplicably unproven fundamental logical fact instead of a personal preference I believe to be morally good in spite of current apparent outcomes is evidence enough you're not equipped to be preaching to anyone
>>96462392>>96462532>>96462675Hey look, a Star Trek nigger dimly realizing that diversity doesn't actually have any stopping point but failing to see how point A led to point B.>No you don't understand, it was fine when it was just letting black women answer phones!And it didn't stop there, did it? It never does, because it's a cult.Don't call it a tomb, it's the future you chose.
>>96462232Man am i glad that i just use the mechanics and run my game in my own universe where it is explicitly the ayys fault humanity's empire fell. I'll start writing it again and have the players go up against more cruel alien minds and their unjust crimes against us.
>>96462392You're a little incoherent, but I'm with you.I genuinely believe in broad humanist values, so I like the idea of equality and inclusion. I think all people ought to be treated with dignity and respect, in an ideal world. And in science fiction I also like the idea of moving on from human prejudices. I don't see any reason I shouldn't treat aliens and robots with respect too. Hell, I'm even soft towards animals. I hate the mistreatment of animals, and think they deserve dignity and respect too.And yet I hate nasty trannies and leftist queer garbage. I've realize it's less about *what* they are, it's about *how* they are. I don't hate trannies merely for being trans, for example, but for the fact that being trans is almost always a secondary symptom of being a perverted sex ghoul with hysterical BPD. And I just hate the general special Olympics victim cult that they run.And speaking of Lancer, I've been to pilot net, and they're all fucking hysterical leftists and weirdo creeps. You can and will get screamed at and banned for wrongthink, even if it's accidental, because like most leftist enclaves everyone is a wannabe inquisitor in the midst of a purity doom spiral. I haven't poked my head in in over a year, but I imagine it's even worse since the election since I imagine Trump Derangement Syndrome is at a total fever pitch now too. If it was bad during Biden it's probably total fucking chaos.Someone should go in as a probe and come back with some screenshots.
>tfw transhumanist absolute sexual degenerate>absolutely 100% on board with people wanting to turn themselves into cocktopusses with dicks for eyes>ideal future is utopian shapeshifting living flesh planet collective hive mind designed explicitly for pleasure>absolutely fucking despise everything about identity politics and the victim olympics>seeing modern society disintegrate before my eyes under liberal policies has given me a borderline fascist worldview>camouflage myself like a goddamn chameleon as I moonlight in both far-right and far-left communities I am full of so much cognitive dissonance it's insane. People like me should probably be exterminated.
>>96464895Anon, you're allowed to be conflicted.
>>96464895May I recommend Jesus instead.
>>96465264I've tried. There's not an ounce of faith in my body.
>>96462232>"hard-core blood and lasers sci-fi mech game">"we are so sorry we touch upon these bad things, please forgive us. Here's a safety system to use incase the aspects of war make you feel bad vibes"God's, that's pathetic.
>>96465641True, if an "ugh, can we fucking not, please?" doesn't fix the problem then you're either at the wrong table or you're at the wrong table and either way you oughta fuckin leave- Either you're a fuckin pussy or the other players/DM are faggotsUnfortunately, if you pick up a game from Pilot.net, you've already forked over $25 a week two months in advance before you find out this is a transbian dilation campaign.
>>96465854Why would I even bother playing a game that's pussified slop from setting to mechanics?
