Dungeon walls feel like cardboard in Draw Steel. I have talked about the sheer power of forced movement more generally: >>96419270But now, I would like to focus on the object destruction side of such mechanics.Draw Steel has fairly generous rules for object destruction: https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Chapters/Combat/#slamming-into-objectsIt is 3 damage or 3 remaining squares of forced movement to destroy a 5-by-5-by-5-foot cube of wood. It is 6 for stone, or 9 for metal.I have noticed that this results in dungeon walls often feeling like cardboard. For example, a level 1 PC with the Rapid-Fire kit can use Two Shot to, on a tier 2+ result, destroy two 5-by-5-by-5-foot cubes of stone dungeon wall. A level 1 NPC human scoundrel has a 100% chance of using their Rapier and Dagger action to destroy a 5-by-5-by-5-foot cube of stone, and so does a level 1 NPC human trickshot with their Trick Crossbow action.https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Kits/Rapid%20Fire/https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Bestiary/Monsters/Monsters/Humans/Statblocks/Human%20Scoundrel/https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Bestiary/Monsters/Monsters/Humans/Statblocks/Human%20Trickshot/Then there is forced movement. A level 1 hakaan fury (berserker or reaver) or null (metakinetic) availing of their 2-ferocity or 2-discipline benefit can push or slide a size 1M creature (e.g. a human) 6 squares with a tier 2 result on a Knockback maneuver, which is not even a main action. If the target is next to a stone wall, that stone wall is getting burst right open. NPCs have their own forced movement too, of course.How do you adapt to dungeon walls being so fragile for both PCs and NPCs?
>>96446388And?
>>96446388>For example, a level 1 PC with the Rapid-Fire kit can use Two Shot to, on a tier 2+ result, destroy two 5-by-5-by-5-foot cubes of stone dungeon wall. A level 1 NPC human scoundrel has a 100% chance of using their Rapier and Dagger action to destroy a 5-by-5-by-5-foot cube of stone, and so does a level 1 NPC human trickshot with their Trick Crossbow action.Don't these rules only cover collision and not damage? It doesn't say dealing 6 damage to a stone block would destroy it, only that if the stone block suffered 6 damage from being force moved itself, it would break.
>>96446388>How do you adapt to dungeon walls being so fragile for both PCs and NPCs?OK, you're a superhuman who can demolish walls with your basic attacks. Have you considered how many walls can you fell before you bring down everything on top on your heads? :^)
>>96446434Apologies. Here are the more comprehensive rules on object destruction:https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Chapters/Combat/#object-stamina>Mundane objects in the game have Stamina based on the material they're made of. When an object's Stamina is reduced to 0, the object is destroyed. Objects have poison immunity all and psychic immunity all, though the Director can remove one or both of these immunities in the case of living objects, such as plants. A size 1 object or 1 square of a larger object made of common materials has Stamina as follows:>Glass: 1 Stamina>Wood: 3 Stamina>Stone: 6 Stamina>Metal: 9 Stamina>The Director can decide that a well-made or poorly made object has more or less Stamina. Destroying a supernatural object often (but not always) requires a specific quest, such as throwing a magic ring back into the volcano where it was forged.
>>96446388
>>96446501>Mundane objects in the game have Stamina based on the material they're made of.Oh I see why people call this a 4e clone.Also holy shit how are they fucking up something even 3.5e had figured out 20 years ago?
>>96446388What's behind the walls?
>>96446388>How do you adapt to dungeon walls being so fragile for both PCs and NPCs?By not playing shitty systems run on Saturday morning cartoon physics.
>>96446388This is just a problem with forced movement in general. It's a very uninteresting part of the system that amounts to trying to exploit collision damage to maximize DPR.And if Fatt ever "fixes" it so it doesn't do bonkers damage, it'll be useless and forgettable instead.
>>96446442>you're a superhumandumbass didn't even read the thing he quoted. a basic ass bandit can obliterate a 5 foot cube of solid stone.
>>96446852Those are elite superhuman bandits like in wuxia.
>>96446522Fuck off, he's talking about games.A shitty game I'll never play, but a game, nonetheless.
>>96447048but theyre not, theyre level 1.
>>96447048How does anything actually get built in Wuxia when even bandits have inner disciple-tier prostate mangler techniques and the authorities are by definition complete assholes who don't care about anything but their own cultivation and pleasure?
>>96447346Level 1 is still superhero in this game.
>>96446388It sounds like you have a lot of complaints with this system, even though I see you talking about it constantly. You might be the only guy on /tg/ who has actually read and played it, also.
I'm actually proud of you Edna. You're finally discussing game mechanics instead of obtuse lore or storytelling questions.
>>96447516
>>96446388>>96446501I think the question is, does a wall count (nearly wrote cunt, whoops) as an object? I would personally class it as part of the environment. Does the system ever define what it means by an object anywhere?
>>96448733It uses walls in an example for hurling people through objects, so yes it considers them as objects.
It sounds broken, so run every combat as The Defenestration Squad until it gets boring. Throw them through walls, out windows and into sideways until the very idea seems boring. Or, I dunno, talk to your group if it's a problem and play something else, or even houserule the rules you consider broken.
>>96449185This. Touhou is a fucking retard and has made multiple threads bitching about problems that would stop mattering if he understood how houserules worked. We'd be better off without dumb sperg like him who think the rulebook is absolute instead of a guideline
>>96448733Walls need to be mechanically considered objects, or else the slamming into objects rule fails to function on walls:https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Chapters/Combat/#slamming-into-objectsSimilarly, walls are cited as an example of an object here:https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Chapters/Combat/#cover
>>96446388What exactly do you think the problem is with this? If you're throwing someone 15 feet backwards, yeah they should be able to destroy a wooden wall.
>>96448776Ah>>96449216On the other hand they could just... Balance the game a little better.
>>96449990It's balanced just fine, never was a problem in playtesting. It's a problem specific to edna's autistic ass and whatever table he's parasitized. And if he wasn't insufferable, he would just be fine with house ruling it.
>>96448598That was the intent with the game, you start play already as a ridiculously powerful hero and only get more over the top from there.
Also, it is possible for abilities like Kinetic Grip to pick up an object and apply forced movement onto it.https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Classes/Talent/#kinetic-gripKinetic Grip and similar abilities have some strong potential outside of combat, too. For example, right from level 1, Kinetic Grip can pick up a watchtower, even one made of stone or iron, and transport it around. What is the limit to the kind of objects and structures that Kinetic Grip can pick up and lift around, and other abilities like it, can pick up and lift around?https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Bestiary/Monsters/Dynamic%20Terrain/Siege%20Engines/Watchtower/
>>96450006Why are you against RPG writers making not-broken games?
>>96450185NTA is it supposed to be like Godbound? I don't even know this system, I just find 2hu's autistic rantings hilarious.
>>96452736Not necessarily. This is how level 1 to 3 heroes are described, for example:https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Chapters/The%20Basics/#1st-echelon-1st-to-3rd-level>1st Echelon (1st to 3rd Level)>The 1st echelon of play details the stories of characters of 1st to 3rd level. At this echelon, the characters are local heroes. They save lost caravans, besieged villages, and overlooked neighborhoods within cities. Characters battle bands of mortal humanoids—dwarves, elves, goblins, humans, kobolds, orcs, and more. They can also face off against the occasional larger monstrous threat, such as a bredbeddle, ogre, or chimera. Such creatures can threaten a small community but rarely have plans for world domination or the destruction of the timescape. However, any of these adversaries might work for or be manipulated by stronger threats as a foreshadowing of what awaits the heroes at higher echelons.At this echelon, a level 1 NPC human scoundrel has a 100% chance of using their Rapier and Dagger action to destroy a 5-by-5-by-5-foot cube of stone, and so does a level 1 NPC human trickshot with their Trick Crossbow action.
>>96452765Have you done the math on how long it takes for a highest echelon character to destroy a medium sized city?
>>96446388why not just double or triple the hp value of wood, stone, and metal? or maybe putting restrictions like this object can only be damaged once per turn.>>96446530what did they do back then?
Sounds like it would be better suited to an X-Crawl style dungeon sports game honestly. Like Gladiators but with adventurers.
>>96447351Slaves mostly.
