>>96450403
I reject your premise entirely.

It's more accurate to say that popular games are accessible, by the way.

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>>96450427
>I reject your premise
>offers zero counter argument

>>96450474
There's nothing missing from what I said, but I can spell it out some more for you.

I reject the premise, because it's lazy bait to say "all the most popular games have the lowest quality."

When I say "popular games are accessible," I mean just that. They are available to play. There are people who are actively playing it, so that you have people to play it with and onboard new people into playing it. Unpopular games aren't as widespread for reasons such as availability of materials, or a lack of a community around the game to help fuel interest in it. This should be extremely obvious, but sometimes it's just useful to say that "thing A is thing A."

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because the average person is a mouthbreathing retard who does nothing but drift through life while trying to do whatever is popular in attempt to be cool or trendy to their peers or people they want to be peers with
the average consumer doesn't care if a product is low quality soulless slop as long as it is popular and trendy at the moment, it's why majority of these mainstream games primarily get their players from blatant flashy corpo marketing shit like cinematic trailer videos on youtube, the game being featured in a popular tv show, and celebrities saying they play the game in interviews rather than people actually playing it and recommending it to their friends due to it being good.
remember the george carlin quote about stupid people, it has always been a truth

>>96450403
Because 1. most people have shit taste and 2. to be popular they need to be accessible to as many people as possible, including specimens mentioned in #1.

what's so bad about 5E? inb4 some retard says the crowd who plays it. that's not the game's fault. there's nothing inherently wrong with 5e.

>>96450403
>OP has only just discovered the concept of lowest common denominator

>>96450654
>asking for contrarian reverse-engineered hate in the laziest kind of basic bitch "complain about what's popular" troll thread

People can come up with bullshit reasons to hate anything. Why are you pretending you want to hear trolls tell you those reasons.

>>96450474
LMAO, DO 40k PLAYERS ACTUALLY DO THIS?

Surely wargamers would have an interest in military simulationism, and not letter-of-the-law try-hardism, right?

>>96450816
>Surely wargamers would have an interest in military simulationism
That is correct, but 40k is not a wargame. It's a tabletop hero shooter video game

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MtG is fun

>>96450654
It's a game that has utterly dominated TTRPG culture while being not only a dogshit game that has branding as its number one priority over things like "being fun" or "being playable".
It's also a horrible starting point into the hobby that makes players struggle with other systems, instills an horrible passive-aggressive play culture while insanely, overwhelmingly rules-heavy and setting-specific

>>96450827
I've been informed that it's the greatest miniatures wargame on Earth. Could... could I possibly be mistaken?

>>96450816
>non-historical wargames
>military simulationism
fucking lmao, get over yourself

>>96450654
>inb4 some retard says the crowd who plays it. that's not the game's fault.
The content cultivates the crowd.

>>96450879
>a fictional setting doesn't need to have any internal logic; it's all magic! Anything can happen, LOL!

>>96450879
Yes, sci-fi should be an exploration of how warfare is realistically conducted in the futuristic setting considered the fictional technology in effect. It should NOT be cartoon Marvel slop where anything goes "because..uhhhh..
It just does?!!"

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>>96450897
>>96450975
but it literally is all magic you retards

>>96450501
Possibly the most Reddit post I've seen all year.

>>96450403
>Why are the most popular games always the lowest quality?
According to whom?

>>96451014
careful the his-snore-ical boregamers are going to get really upset because this isn't 1-1 with real life physics!!!!

>>96450827
>40k is not a wargame. It's a tabletop hero shooter video game
It's a T-sport.

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>>96450870
Non of that is remotely true anon, this is just cope of the highest order because no one wants to play your ugandan-punk, greyhack zine

>>96451060
See, this is what a D&D fag is like. If I don't want to play your shitty system where I have to build half the fucking game by myself because by RAW there's zero rules for anything that's not combat and the players aren't even expected to remember or read the rules at all, the only possible alternative is playing fanzine diceless hacks.

>>96451014
>because this setting contains magic, it's fine for self-propelled artillery guns to park hull-to-hull, six at a time

>because a setting contains elements which do not exist in reality, it is acceptable for that setting to not conform to any sort of internal plausibility

>>96451112
>there's zero rules for anything that's not combat
NTA but you don't have to lie.

>>96451116
>no artillery vehicles cannot be close together because...
>well they don't do that in real life so NO theY CANT DO THAT!!!!

>>96450403
I’ll speak to 40k. The first and most salient issue is network effect. Outside the case of super niche historical wargaming clubs, miniature wargames require others to be willing to play them. GW is the only company to really capitalize on this, giving prospective gamers a welcoming front porch in the form of stores. This, coupled with the general super high quality of the products (not in terms of rule quality, certainly), makes it relatively easy to bring on a new player, get him up to speed, and send him off to flgs land. This, coupled with sunk cost, means you have a huge number of players who are out in the wild, hiding models behind L-shaped ruins and leafing through multiple books for that special rule and rolling dice, unwilling to branch out into other games.

40k has stumbled a bit, but it remains a hugely compelling IP with great models. I don’t play it so not shilling for it, but I can clearly understand why it outstrips everything in the hobby. All that said X-Wing nearly caught it.

>>96451118
It barely has any. The rules are "idk make something up." The rules for persuasion/seducion/every fucking social thing are "roll a die when the DM arbitrarily tells you to do this (because the DM is an unpaid game design intern who's supposed to spoonfeed you the game even though we have him zero DM tools), if you roll high you do it"

>>96451152
And this isn't a thing that's hard to overcome. Plenty of TTRPGs work out social mechanics. Fucking Thirsty Sword Lesbians has better social mechanics then D&D.

>>96451116
you know it's a space wizard game, right? with AngryRon who is angry? Iron Hand (with an iron hand) leading the Iron Hands? but no, can't offend the superb tactical intellect of General Dwight D. Idontshower by parking our tiny plastic tanks next to each other

>>96451152
>It barely has any
I accept your backpedal.
> The rules for persuasion/seducion/every fucking social thing
Lmao you roll for social stuff? Too autistic to roleplay eh retard?
>The GM has to make calls, that's hard :(
We get it, you're a flunked out dipshit who failed to wrangle a group. Sorry that the most basic game on the market is too much of a trial by fire for your retarded ass, maybe 6th edition will ship with an AI that can run your game for you.

>>96451194
>Lmao you roll for social stuff? Too autistic to roleplay eh retard?
So your social rules are just "do freeform RP until the DM decides you've done enough and you win" then?
>The GM has to make calls, that's hard :(
nigger in a well-designed game I don't have to build half the fucking infrastructure all by myself. there are literally no GM-facing mechanical levels in 5e other than enemy statblocks (which also, unlike something like Lancer or even fucking 4th Edition, come with no guidance on how to use them or how to assemble combat encounters with them). in an ACTUAL game with actual tools for the GM someone has already thought about pacing and fairness and you can work with the levers they gave you.
a 5e DM can, rules as written, say at any point "100 ogres appear and beat you to death", they always have to be navigating a series of unspoken social contracts, creating threats but never threats which can win, introducing problems and consequences at a rate that keeps stakes up but is also fundamentally winnable, make everythign feel 'fair'. and dnd players have learned to accept this all as just the table stakes of a GM role, but it doesn't have to be. because all that is game design, and in a better game, that design is taken care of.

>>96451014
>>96451132
>>96451191
Kek you guys are really illustrating why the most popular games are the lowest quality. It's the players they attract

>>96451229
>So your social rules are just "do freeform RP until the DM decides you've done enough and you win"
Anon, not all conversations are fights that you "win". Maybe you're such a fucking moron that you can't set DCs OR handle just playing a character, but that's not a problem at the tables of normal human beings.

>nigger in a well-designed game I don't have to build half the fucking infrastructure all by myself
Congrats, you don't in 5e.
>B-but making calls is too hard :(
Guess what, you're never gonna do well in any system, even the most autistic and rules-heavy GURPS campaign would require too much effort on your end.

What you want is a video game, go play those.

>>96451229
>a 5e DM can, rules as written, say at any point "100 ogres appear and beat you to death"
You can do this in every single game, except for VTNL.

>>96451240
>It's the players they attract
you mean any players at all, nogames? foreign concept, i'm sure

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>>96450403
To be less cynical, it's because popular things generally offer a level of quality, approachability, and ease of access. The most popular games are rarely truly bad. Like, I may think Fortnite is a blight upon the industry, but there's still something about Fortnite that people do genuinely enjoy beyond all the celebrity and pop culture crossovers. Same can be said of MtG and 40k and everything else that is bigger and more popular than the competition.

As for why other things can't supplant it by being "higher quality" the issue is actually that few things are truly objectively better in every way, and even when they are, the lack of popularity with games and hobbies that require multiple people to play is that there's fewer people to play against. So what you have is actually a few products/games/hobbies that may address a handful of the common complaints, but not all of them, on top of being smaller, less developed, and less played.

With card games and wargames, this is a huge problem. The investment to get into any of those is not small and everyone involved needs to make that investment. Unless you can get your whole group to agree ahead of time, diving in alone can be a bad move and many people get burned by it once or twice and then never again.

>>96451242
>Anon, not all conversations are fights that you "win".
Well, in D&D 5E they are, since the only social mechanic in the actual rulebook is roll a die and if you get the high number, you successfully Seduce/Persuade/Bargain/Whatever. this pretty cleanly conveys the person's beliefs as an obstacle and you Win by tearing them down; this is the same mechanical resoltuion in many games as, say, jumping over a river, or hitting an enemy through armour.
>>96451254
Not at all. In many other games the DM has actual mechanics that he can operate through and these mechanics can be employed through ways that are specified in the rulebook. they are clearly delineated and restricted, there's no self-policing. If the DM does something he's not supposed to do, you know he's not supposed to do it; but I guess D&D players don't even read their fucking rulebook either so they wouldn't know either way.

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>>96451273
With RPGs, the investment seems far worse, as it takes a lot of time to read several hundred pages of rulebooks, but in actuality, most people are just paranoid and wary of having to learn anything new because they almost always start with D&D and D&D has been a game that does a piss poor job of teaching itself to inexperienced players without a veteran around to handhold them. By contrast to war and card games, a single 40$ RPG book only really takes a few hours to learn and could keep an entire table of players entertained for months.

However, discoverability and lack of a decent reviews means that even if the perfect RPG exists for a group and their needs and is fairly cheap, most people will never learn it exists unless it's put in front of them, and they may not know they want it because they might think it's too hard to learn a new system (it isn't and never has been) and without a clear review that gives a broad overview of the mechanics and features, they will never know that the system has what they want.

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>>96451255
>heh.. it would appear I am superior to you, because I more frequently engage in an activity heavily associated with incels and manchildren
how niggas sound when they call you nogames

>>96451278
>Well, in D&D 5E they are
Please point me to the rule that explicitly says this, I'll give you five minutes.
inb4 you're just a sperg who can't understand how conversations work.

>>96451278
>Not at all
Incorrect retardo. There is nothing in any system except VTNL, uniquely terrible in how it intends for the GM to arbitrate like a robot and obey the rules as strictly as the players, that says you aren't allowed to have 100 ogres skullfuck the players instantly.

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>>96451132
>>96451191
It looks extremely stupid and breaks immersion.

>by parking our tiny plastic tanks next to each other
How did the choreograph parking like that in a combat situation? (ps, their guns' recoil would cause impacts to other vehicles throwing off aim).

Image provided for similar retardation.

>>96451316
>It looks extremely stupid
Subjective.
>breaks immersion
Sounds like a you problem.
>How did the choreograph parking like that in a combat situation?
They have radios, retard. And do you not drive? Post your license.
>ps, their guns' recoil would cause impacts to other vehicles throwing off aim
Minor detail, nobody cares for such things and at low combat ranges like this it wouldn't even matter.

>>96451295
>>96451278
Times up. Sorry anon, you're wrong and I accept your concession.

>>96451295
Well, can go and look right now at the Player's Handbook. Shall we? Page 174, 175, "using ability scores," clearly delineate how the system works; the DM arbitrarily decides that an action has a chance of failure and a die is rolled. If the number surpasses a difficulty threshold (also arbitrarily decided by the DM) it succeeds, otherwise it fails. That's it! That's the whole fucking mechanic!
>>96451305
Wrong! Many systems have mechanics in place to control the DM's abilities. In PBTA, for one, the DM acts through GM moves, which occur when the player has a mixed success. In Masks, for one, a GM move would be "Put Innocents In Danger" which would *only* happen in response to a mixed success. The DM can't arbitrarily decide "welp rocks fall everyone dies" because it's clearly stated in the rules when he can drop the rocks and how.

>>96451384
Nah you ran out of time, and that doesn't say whatsoever that you must win or lose all conversations. Try again next thread retard.

>>96451384
>Wrong!
Wrong!
>Many systems have mechanics in place to control the DM's abilities
No, they don't.
>In PBTA, for one, the DM
Can make up anything he wants and it stays.
>The DM can't arbitrarily decide "welp rocks fall everyone dies"
Yes, he can. Sorry nogames, the DM gets to make up whatever the fuck he wants and you're stuck with it.

>>96451392
It literally does. There are no mechanics for any result other then pass/fail. If you roll to seduce, you either seduce (meaning you win) or you don't (meaning you fail). There are no rules whatsoever beyond this binary pass/fail; the chapter that describes all non-social mechanics, chapter 7, is 6 pages long!

>>96451435
>It literally does
n't.
Again, you can't quote any passage that says "All conversations must be won or lost" or any variation of that. You're just autistic and can't actually run a game. God, imagine being so bad at RPGs you get filtered by babby's first.

>>96451442
>To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the
relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC.
>If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success —the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it’s a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM.
There, you got it. Player's Handbook, page 161, chapter 7. No social mechanics whatsoever beyond "roll a die, if the number is higher you win otherwise you lose."

>>96450654
the monster manual was written expecting players would not take feats, so a third of the product is bad

>>96451467
>Newfag can't even space his posts correctly
Kek
>There, you got it.
Got what, and where? Again you autistic fucking moron, nowhere does it mention conversations at all. You can't read, you're just a dumbass who can't even run a game lmao

>>96451284
>/tg/ - Traditional Games

>>96451316
>(ps, their guns' recoil would cause impacts to other vehicles throwing off aim).
point me to a source saying that the space wizards didn't rectify this with their super mega advanced space tank designs

>>96451489
Nigger, there are no mechanics described for conversations anywhere else in the game. At most there's a section a bit later specifying when you're supposed to do charisma checks (still binary pass fail).
>but just roleplay-
So, something that's not in the book? So the book has no rules worth using for social mechanics whatsoever? Thank you for your admission.

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>>96451513
>Nigger, there are no mechanics described for conversations
Oh wow, so you mean the game doesn't tell you that all conversations are win/lose? You mean you have to just... Roleplay??? Wow... That system sounds scary :((( mom I have to talk to people I wanna go home
>So, [roleplay]'s not in the book?
Ahem, direct thine eyes to the attached image.

>>96451513
>I need rules to have a conversation
Why are you bitching? You can't even recruit a group if you're this much of an autistic loser. Is your real complaint that 5e's not a solo game?

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>>96451545
Okay, so, we have successfully established the book is a 40 dollar paperweight. Let's all play this new system, Stick Adventure!
All complaints or criticisms of it are invalid because if you don't like a rule you can just ignore it and instead roleplay with your friends :)

>>96451565
>I cannot roleplay, therefore this roleplaying game is useless to me!
Yes. And thank God for it, the hobby is better off with useless "people" like you kept as far away as possible.

>>96450403
>lowest quality
They're aggressively mediocre because they appeal to broad audiences, but the quality is otherwise fine.

>>96451557
A normal game designed by someone with game design goals has things like "mechanics" that allow you to do things through actions in the game. Many games don't have any problem with conveying things like seduction, conversations and persuasion through actual game mechanics. Just off the top of my head I can name Monsterhearts, Shot Through The Heart, Pigsmoke, Vampire the Masquerade, it seems it's just D&D that needs you to construct them from zero and have your DM interpret an entire world's worth of NPCs by himself instead.

>>96451606
>A normal game designed by someone with game design goals has things like "mechanics"
5e has mechanics.
These mechanics are trimmed down from earlier editions where it was discovered that many of them were dead weights. Said editions were also very low performing and are generally regarded poorly, save by nostalgic grogs.
You are essentially just upset that a problem was solved because you weren't around to experience the problem and thus the solution. If you want, go play 3.5e or whatever, though if you're too stupid to figure out how to roleplay, you're never gonna find a group, so this is moot. I will no longer waste my time trying to guide your moronic ass towards games.

>>96451643
>These mechanics are trimmed down from earlier editions where it was discovered that many of them were dead weights
So that's why you have stat totals, tool proficiencies and spell levels, entirely worthless vestigial mechanics stapled onto the game because it's "what D&D feels like"? 5e is a branding exercise masquerading as a game. It's a cartoonish downgrade from 4e and 3.5e because those games had actual fucking design goals for them.
It's not even the only thing wrong with 5e. CR doesn't even work even a little. The gulf between spellcasters and martials has become downright comical. Moon Druid singlehandedly outclasses every other class put together. Classes are balanced around having seven combat encounters per day because someone was doing crack at Wizards of the Coast, and worst of all, the game has no overarching design whatsoever. OD&D through 2e are all games about being amoral mercenaries plundering dungeons, and 3E through 4E are games about being high fantasy heroes on epic quests--but 5e is first and foremost a game about being "a d&d character", whatever that means. It's entirely corporate slop.

>>96451713
Look, I don't care about this long winded cope post of yours because you got booted from the LGS for acting unbearable.
The game works for most people, and they enjoy it. If you can't, tough, because the community agreed that your ideas suck ass and showed it with their wallets.

>>96451737
Yeah, you gave Hasbro $120 to buy a book whose rules you're not going to use, by your own admission.

>>96451752
Incorrect retard, I don't play 5e so I pirated their shit. You're just a zumbass who can't game.

>>96450403
They aren't the lowest quality. They just have enough people looking at them that more of the flaws can be found and more min-maxing that exploits those can occur compared to the less explored, smaller games.

>>96451766
Cope, retard, your system is dogshit and so are you.

>>96451766
motherfucker i played that shit for like three years level 1 to level 20. the game's bad. it sucks.

>>96451793
>>96451803
>hurr durr I can't read and I'm mad I got kicked out of my group!!!
t. the shit licker that is you

>>96451643
Those mechanics are so shit and barebones I am literally better off inventing a game from first principles instead of playing it. I don't give a shit how well they work for sub90 fucktards who shouldn't be at a table.

>>96451807
Did you know that there is literally no way to tank in D&D 5e outside of your DM making all enemies retarded?

>>96451810
Nah sorry you just suck.

>>96451821
>d-d-did you kno dnd isn't like wow? th-thids very bad!!!
The windows on your street must be covered in saliva huh

>>96451828
Oh yeah, I forgot WOW invented the concept of being "the big guy who protects his friends," my mistake

>>96451836
You use MMO terms because you're an MMO tard. You refererred to Lancer and 4e too and now I see why, you're just a butthurt video gamer who can't figure out tabletop and it drives you mad lmao

>>96451828
where do you think MMOs got their classes and archetypes from lol

>>96451841
>video games = well designed tabletop games
No

>>96451842
World war 2 is where the term 'Tank' and 'Tanking' originates from, retard.

>>96451853
Apparently they are to you, which is why your faggot ass got filtered by the most basic of basic games. No wonder the idea of rule zero flew right over your tiny deformed skull lol

>>96451858
lol no, tanks were already a thing by WW1

>>96451875
Concession accepted, you lose.

>>96451874
Rule zero is not a defense of games having shitty rules or having rules that require you to make everything up.

>>96451890
Anon you're a moronic sperg who can't figure out how to roleplay without consulting a rulebook, you don't get to say what is and isn't a defense of anything.

>>96451858
Are you joking? Tanks are from WW1. The term tank comes from literal water tanks. Brits used it to throw off spies. “Oh what are they building in that new factory over there?” “Oh just some tanks I heard.”

>>96451874
if you have to ignore some of the rules for the game to be good then the game is not good

>>96451900
>Filtered by rule zero again
Kek

>>96451895
>why do you think the game is bad? don't you just design a better game when you play it?

>>96451898
Since you can't help but samefag after conceding, tanks were barely relevant in WW1 retard, they were popularized in WW2. We still had generals who thought they were a fad until WW2.

>>96451900
https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/black-and-white-thinking-in-autism/

>>96451909
>no... the game isn't just a bad fit for me...
>the game is just... LE BAD!
>it's every other person who is wrong, not me!
Kek, guess what faggot, the average 5e player is going to have more fun playing games than you ever will.

>>96451906
ignoring the rules is something you can do with any game because the rules of a game are not magically binding -- i think if you find yourself having to encourage people to do it, or to hold the ability to do so up as a response to criticism or a selling point, then i think the rules are bad. rules should make the game better when you follow them and each one that doesn't is a failure

>>96451923
The average 5E player isn't a hobbyist, they're a no standards 5E player that barely engages with anything.

>>96451923
If 5e is so fun, why are you ignoring the rules of the game instead of using them? Might as well do freeform RP at this point

>>96451926
>ignoring the rules is something you can do with any game
And?
>If you adapt rules... you're bad and the game sucks!!!
Don't care, still had fun running and will be running the same game in the same system next week, 2nd year in a row btw. Must suck knowing you'll never have a group like mine, huh?

>>96451937
>The average 5E player is
Having more fun than you. Stay seething.

>>96451938
Rule zero means you're not ignoring rules.

>>96451939
I'm on year 11 of a campaign.

>>96451939
If you've got to remove the rules for the game to be fun these rules must be pretty bad, anon. Maybe look around for another system instead of trying to brute force this one into a new shape. Would you run a superhero game with the Avatar system? Run a noir adventure with Mistborn RPG?

>>96451951
Nah, you got kicked out because you're insufferable to be around. Nobody wants to play with you, which is why you have to beg people to stop playing 5e since it triggers your autism.

>>96451913
Not the anon you were sperging on, but…
You: “the term tank comes from WW2.”
Me: “no, it comes from WW1, and here is exactly why a tank was called a tank.”
You: “well they weren’t popular [odd choice of word] until WW2, retard.”

Whether they were “popular” in WW1 or not is irrelevant. The fact remains the term “tank” comes from WW1 and was a counter-intelligence ploy that sticks with us to this day.

Please continue sperging on D&D charisma rules or whatever the fuck it is you’re talking about that no one cares about.

>>96451952
>Maybe look around for another system
Why? My table likes what we've got.
Sorry if 5e was too difficult for you, anon, but we've had no problems with using it. Maybe you should try picking up bf6 when it drops, seems like it might be up your alley.

>>96451962
Project more.

>>96451969
You don't seem to be having fun with D&D, considering by your own admission you don't use the system and just make shit up.

>>96451968
Weird how you're so wrong you had to make up quotes, samefag. Needing to pretend people said things they didn't is a surefire way to show you're not desperate and on the losing end of an argument!

>>96451975
I said no such thing. Are you about to schizo out and claim every anon on here is the exact same now that your latest argument failed?

>>96451970
>P-project m-more
>Said the nogames as he cried because I talked about my 5e game
Lmao

>>96451985
You clearly said you don't use the rules for social mechanics outlined in the game and simply roleplay. So yeah, you're just playing pretend with your friends and calling that "D&D 5E"

>>96451992
>You clearly said
Nah.
>the rules for social mechanics outlined in the game
You sperged out and said there were none. So am I "not using them" or are there none? You have to pick one and only one, retard.

>>96450403
If you think any of those games are anywhere near the "lowest quality" then you're a retard and you haven't played any other games.

>>96451996
"roll a die when the DM says so, and if you roll a number higher then the number he told you, you win" is D&D's sole mechanic for all noncombat, non-magical problem solving; including social mechanics. Indeed, there are no mechanics for socialization, persuasion, seduction and similar; there is one mechanic used for literally everything beyond combat and magic.

>>96452012
Not an answer. Am I not using them, or are there none? Pick one and only one, you'll admit you were wrong eitherway since you contradicted yourself, as is typical for autists.

>>96452019
You aren't using the mechanics, you're just doing whatever and roleplaying, and there aren't any mechanics "for social combat" but there are still mechanics involved, which you're ignoring.

>>96452040
>You aren't using the mechanics
Okay! So you were completely wrong about your initial claim and concede that you're an idiot who didn't even look at the rules, congratulations.
Now on to your point: Incorrect, we're using Rule Zero to ensure the game remains fun. Don't like it? Too bad, my table does.

Okay wise guy what's a superior wargame I can play with all my Orks that I've spent so much time and money putting together? And where do I find people to play it with (locals at my lgs don't even want to play 40k with mission twists because that's not tournament standard)?

>>96452133
Age of Sigmar.

>>96452152
He said superior

>>96452162
And?

>>96452164
Clearly he should be playing Kill Team.

>>96452182
>40k lite
Ew.
Beside he said "all" of his orks

>>96452194
He could run, uh, a lot of simultaneous games of Kill Team at once.

>>96452133
>Okay wise guy what's a superior wargame I can play with all my Orks that I've spent so much time and money putting together?
Ah, the sunken cost fallacy. A classic

>where do I find people to play it with
It's called "friends," anon. I know it's a rare concept to 40kiddies, but most people have them.

>>96452219
my friends are individuals with desires of their own who might simply not want to drop the game they enjoy?

>>96452244
Thanks for admitting youdon't have friends

>>96452290
ok npc

>>96451316
We would park large vehicles like that in the military, rail head is where you pack those things on a train car.

>>96452333
I've loaded like a hundred Bradley's on a train and never over did we park then in a circle up in a helipad

>>96452387
I'm sure you did lol

>>96450403
The most popular aren't the worst (or else the most popular rpg would be fatal).
They are just massively popular and therefore set a minimum standard. This ensures nothing worse than them can successfully propagate itself.

For example I would never play a rpg that is worse then 5e.
Why don't people instead player better games is irrelevant to this because if a different game became standard people would not play anything worse.

>>96450403
>/tg/ DnD
>/vst/ Paradox games
>/tv/ Marvel
i think there's something more general going on. one thing that seems apparent is that these products build up a kind of permanent unsatisfiability in the consumer. there's always a need for more, a promise of something new, and almost a fear of missing out.

if you skip a summer blockbuster, you won't know the current lore for characters you're invested in. that dlc everyone says the game "needed from the start", which makes your current product feel incomplete, etc. it's like a virus.

i'm not sure how much of this is done on purpose by publishers (and should be called out), and how much of it just satisfies a natural need (and should be respected)

it's something i've been thinking about a lot, and i'm genuinely curious. from my perspective, seeing something like d20 Call of Cthulhu, with stuff like "7th level Librarian" and professions locked behind modules - things you'd normally just imagine while playing with friends, with nothing but dice, pencils, and paper being paywalled by corporations, and people NOT cringing and noping 360 degree out?

i don't get it. it seems self evidently, axiomatically bad. why isn't it filtered out? why does it draw people in? sorry for the inflammatory tone.

>>96452393
Yep going to and from NTC baby

>>96452874
Took you over an hour to come up with that huh?

>>96452868
your post is a real phenomenon but i really dont see how it applies to DnD. only a tiny minority of DnD players actually buys DnD books

>>96450427
FPBP

>>96450403
>What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without consequence.
The burden of proof is on you, faggot. DnD isn't worse than Fatal. MtG isn't worse than Pokémon.

>>96452878
This may come as a shock to you, but most people didn't spend their entire evening refreshing 4chan

>>96452943
And yet here you are.

>>96452947
>this looks stupid
>no it doesn't, Ive loaded trains IRL
>so have I
>n-...n-no you didn't...
What exactly are you going on about?

>>96452960
>Everyone on 4chan is the same person
Kek

>>96452868
>seeing something like d20 Call of Cthulhu, with stuff like "7th level Librarian" and professions locked behind modules
I'm not entirely sure if you're referring to a real product I could buy this instant on Amazon but you might be. In this example it's probably the combination of d20 which just translates to "I don't have to learn new rules" for normies and CoC i. e. "thing I have a passing familiarity with through cultural osmosis that's also horror that's also popular in Japan". I'm not saying that hypothetical book is good or bad in itself but it absolutely has a built-in audience which is also a bit niche (read under-served in the market). What else are these people gonna buy?

MCU is somewhat like that but to a lesser extend. They deliver (or at least used to deliver) popcorn cinema of good (not great quality). With costs of a single ticket for the last decade or so I think most people valued the consistency higher than whatever DC tried to do.

Paradox offers somewhat comfy, laid back games AFAIK. Not a huge digital gamer so don't know how that market looks.

tl;dr these brands do this because they can afford to

>>96450403
They aren't the lowest quality by any means but these companies get away with a lot with their flagship products because of the sheer volume of players. Look around at /tg/ or your local store for how degenerated some players can be and still get a game of normshit, then there's all the others that are simply sacrificing quality for the convenience of being able to get a game with the minimum possible effort. That willingness to put up with garbage for convenience is not the case with the indies that GW refugees flock to when GW is being particularly incompetent.

>>96452182
I already play kill team, for which only a small portion of my Orks are playable

>>96452219
>Sunken cost
Yeah, I like my orks and I wanna play with them
>Friends
My friends are already resistant to the minor changes I suggest for our 40k games, how do I convince them to drop it entirely for a new system?
Still waiting for an answer to my original question.

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>>96453824
d20 CoC happened. contrived, rigid thing compared to the original.

one possible explanation i have is that dominant franchises train audiences into a certain grammar for that medium. once internalized, alternatives feel l"off". like with d&d people crave complex decision trees, so anything that goes against those expectations will seem shallow and get discarded

also, releasing "faulty" products almost seems like part of the design. fans grumble about marvel fatigue, which ironically keeps the community engaged and banded together. complaining about every new release becomes a kind of ritual. the shortcomings aren't really hidden, more like prearranged, so people can acknowledge them, feel savvy for noticing, and keep participating - already setting up expectations for the next product that's _definitely_ going to fix it, this time.

like merit or branding, sure, to some point, but those products absolutely dominate, and same thing happens across multiple niches .

>>96454206
Myself and some friends decided to get back in to 40k and just picked up 5th edition, because the grey knights player wants to run Draigo.
It was a toss between 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Any modern unit is going to be adapted to the older rules if needed (I've got 2 Paragon Warsuits)
All in all its far more fun, armies are a sensible size, and we can relive our youth whilst playing fun and thematic games on tables with interesting terrain.
If you don't play at a gw store, you don't have to stick to the soulless modern slop.

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>>96450403

If something is making money, the normies/suits will notice and rush in to ruin it(trying to make it appeal to a bigger audience, cutting corners to save money, incorporating subscription elements, etc).

>>96454405
Neat I'll look into it. How did you rewrite paragons into 5th edition?