I do not like the traditional grid-based tactical RPG method of handling flight, which is to say, keeping track of enemies' three-dimensional movement and positioning in midair. D&D 4e, Path/Starfinder 2e, and Draw Steel all do this, and I dislike it. As I see it, this incurs several problems:• It is all-or-nothing based on environment. If combat is taking place in a dungeon room with a 10-12-foot-high ceiling, then flight is only a marginal benefit, but if the battle is beneath an open sky, then it flight is a major advantage.• If diagonals are tracked, like in Path/Starfinder 2e, calculating three-dimensional movement and distances is a real bother, to say nothing of three-dimensional AoE.• Tracking altitude is an inconvenience, even on a virtual tabletop.• There are scenarios wherein creatures are directly vertically above or below one another, which is also a hassle even on a virtual tabletop.• Flight significantly undermines the importance of terrain.• Flight degrades the value of melee characters, who often have a hard time attacking an airborne enemy.• Ranged enemies with flight capacities encourage the GM to cheese the PCs by skirmishing above and around them. This is a scenario I have been in multiple times as a player. Just as a few examples, I have fought tridrone watchers in D&D 4e, shulsagas in Pathfinder 2e, and, just hours ago, a time raider tyrannis in Draw Steel, all at low levels; all of these were annoyingly hard-to-hit skirmishers, in an unfun way.Grid-based tactical games like Strike!, Tailfeathers/Kazzam, level2janitor's Tactiquest, and Tom Abbadon's ICON all abstract flight by making it more of a positive status effect and special movement type. Some of these games prevent flyers from being attacked in melee, while ICON explicitly says:>Even flying characters are always treated as reachable by melee characters - we just don't track vertical space.I much prefer it this way. Do you know other grid-based games like this?
>Just as a few examples, I have fought tridrone watchers in D&D 4e, shulsagas in Pathfinder 2e, and, just hours ago, a time raider tyrannis in Draw Steel, all at low levels; all of these were annoyingly hard-to-hit skirmishers, in an unfun way.The statistics blocks in question, for reference:https://iws.mx/dnd/?view=monster6405https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1147https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Bestiary/Monsters/Monsters/Time%20Raiders/Statblocks/Time%20Raider%20Tyrannis/
>>96457144It's lame as hell to not have flight matter at all, but really you only need a few layers.>Low-Flying>Flying>High-FlyingLow-Flying is anything sticking to the ground, whether because they're forced to within a dungeon or they're trying to stick close. Still within the reach of melee attacks and most things, but avoiding any ground-based hazardsFlying is more typical altitudes of flight in combat. Outside of the reach of melee weapons, though still able to be shot with bows and such.High-flying is beyond even that, where a creature is arguably far enough away to be out of the fight, but could still be reached by a Flying character with a bow, and there could be some weapons and spells that can hit someone from those extreme ranges. So whenever a creature is flying in battle, all you have to do is track which layer they're in. 90% of the time that's going to be in either Low-Flying or standard Flying. Make it so you can only swap layers once per turn, so you don't have creatures zipping between them too frequently. And then you can also do things like place limits on the altitudes a creature can safely fly at. A vampire's bat form might not be capable of High-Flying, while a massive dragon can't do Low-Flying because they're not nimble enough, especially within a dungeon.tl;dr, treat Flight like a Range Band system layered vertically on top of the standard Grid.
>>96457277Level2janitor's Tactiquest is a game I have been following the development of and offering feedback on. Earlier versions had, for combat purposes, "low flight" and "high flight," with the latter being out of reach for melee.Later versions removed the distinction, so it is all just "flight.">Flight>Flying enemies can reach any elevation during their movement, and remain there between turns, though while airborne they're only considered a short height above creatures below them. Melee attacks can only hit them mid-jump. Flying creatures fall from the sky if knocked Prone, taking Fall damage.The change log explains:>There's no longer a distinction between low flight and high flight. All flight uses the rules previously used for low flight. The reasoning for this is high-flying was such a strong trait it was almost never used, and was deemed unnecessary.
>>96457370Yeah, and like I said initially, that's lame as hell. It might be a powerful trait for a dragon to be able to circle 100 feet above the party's heads and be out of reach of swords, but that's what a dragon is.And there's ways to address this within monster design. If the dragon can only move one vertical range band per round, and it lacks the ability to continuously attack from higher altitudes, then it will eventually need to dive down and get into the thick of things. Bonus points if a dragon can't easily do Low-Flying as mentioned and would instead need to actually land, and then would need to spend even more time on the ground before taking off again. There's ways to design around this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/1n6q2bn/gridbased_tactical_rpgs_wherein_flight_is/
>>96457696Welcome, newfag>>96457144Probably not helpful but Princess Wing just says fuck it and has everyone flying. It's still played on a 2d grid but there's no difference between flying and not flying.
