Every time I search for a cool "barbarian" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the half-naked dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after an university party.It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?
>>96457768Barbarians shouldn’t exist. They re just fighters.
>>96457791There is a reason why I wrote " ".
Dnd 5e, play a fighter
Cute amazon > Your LARP.
>an historical
How can 8th century mongoloids be "barbarians" when the term lost meaning by 476 AD?
>>96457768These barbarians are just warriors. The D&D barbarian isn't a Mongol or a Gaul or whatever, he's a vague cross between the 'noble savage' to 'bloodthirsty native' spectrum of stereotypes plus a bunch of Norse stuff tacked on, just like the Monk doesn't line up with actual monks but rather the Asian Mystic you see in pulp fantasy plus a bunch of kung fu movie tropes.
>>96457768The term Barbarian was originally just a slag on anyone who wasn't Roman. DnD and later works just made it a class because of Conan but even REH would refer to Conan as Cimmerian, as uncivilized certainly but a thief, a reaver a slayer etc
>>96457996>originally just a slag on anyone who wasn't Roman.Greek, but yes.
>>96458016Doesn't the word actually translate to babbler. the whole thing was basically a crack at their language.
>>96458055Yes, Greeks thought that all non-Greek languages sound like incomprehensible "bar bar" speech.
>>96457768No idea why you've picked Uigars to typify your barbarians. But just figure out what you're asking and ask about that. You want Asian Steppe People? You want Gallic people from the beginning of the Roman Empire?What the fuck do YOU mean when you say "Barbarian?" Because all that the word means is "Not Hellenized" and then later "Not Romanized."The image we have of "barbarians" mostly comes from Conan and the stuff that contributed to those stories is pretty varied and includes a lot of really ugly, early twentieth century and late nineteenth century psuedo-science and psuedo-archeology.
>>96457768>Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?This is a useless question because it depends on the setting of your game.
>>96457768>look up fantasy media>wonder why it uses fantasy terminologyYou're retarded. And as a non-fantasy term it's so vague as to be basically meaningless.
>>96457863Because the term was still being used by Romans ("Byzantines") and Arabs.
>>96458546>* "Romans" (Byzantines)
>>96458316>No idea why you've picked Uigars to typify your barbarians.Because I like would like a Middle Ages RPG, where steppe peoples were smashing out "civilized" states.And I'm tired of the greco-roman version of it.
>>96458564Is there really no Khan based game?
>>96458564That's fine, but my point is: your defining that Uigars are how "barbarians" should be presented is nonsense. You've made that up for no particular reason that has any connection to the word "barbarian."So just say you want Asian Steppe People, instead of saying you want "barbarians."
Barbarian is literally an ethnic slur for White people (and some Asians).
>>96458614Forgotten Realms has it. It's the biggest land area on the planet.
>>96458552latinoid cope
>>96458639No, it meant non-Greek-speaker in the Hellenic period, and non Latin- and/or Greek- speaker in the Roman period (Greek was still the educated/civilized language of most of the Roman Empire). It really has nothing to do with "white" people, which is a notion that wouldn't be invented until long after the Roman Empire died.
>>96457768>>96458564I don't think that I've seen a "!Cossacks" in an rpg fantasy setting outside of Kislev in Warhammer or in Rifts, so this is actually an unfilled niche. This is a very specific definition of the word "barbarian," however; Robert E. Howard really cornered the definition of barbarian with Conan.>>96458731>it meant non-Greek-speaker in the Hellenic period, and non Latin- and/or Greek- speaker in the Roman period true>Greek was still the educated/civilized language of most of the Roman Empiretrue>white" people, which is a notion that wouldn't be invented until long after the Roman Empire died.Tacitus seems to disagree with you in his "Germania." Herodotus in "Histories" and Pericles via Thuycidides in "The Peloponnesian" (and Thuycidides himself, later) also directly contradict you. See also "Europa." There has always been a concept of ethnogenesis and identity in every civilization.t. do not try to fool classics majors
>>96458951There absolutely is not, in tacitus, herodotus, thuycidides or anyone the hell else, anything that even vaguely comports with your notion of "white" people. You are making that up. Did they recognize the northern mediterranean as a particular place? Absolutely. That has fuck-all to do with your notion of "white" people.
Every time I search for a cool "ranger" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the Robin Hood wannabe dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.Is it there a good RPG with proper "ranger"?
>>96458999>Is it there a good RPG with proper "ranger"?Rangers were a concept lifted from LOTR so if you dislike Aragorn you're not gonna like rangers.IRL Rangers were basically 13th century game wardens.
>>96457768It's not a real historical warrior class that can be rigidly categorized, just a catch-all term for foreigners
Every time I search for a cool "Paladin" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the Deus Vult wannabe dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.Is it there a good RPG with proper "Paladin"?
>>96458968I'm nobody's classic major, but from what I can find the general thrust of Greek thought on skin color was it mostly was used in regards to aesthetics. That is, a good looking Man would have swarthy dark skin whereas a good looking Woman would be pale. Though some of Aristotle's takes were pretty spicy."There are some other lines which use "white" to describe greeks, but the only two I can find are of a 2nd century sophist and a Jew. I won't try to use a Jewish person as a factual source on 4chan and a Sophist was basically someone you paid to shout logical fallacies in court so I can't call that very useful.
>>96459129>has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.Cmon anon, atleast change it to Dragon Quest. Now that just looks lazy of a shitpost
>>96459257I was just following what >>96458999 did. Also, I like Dragon Quest a lot so I rather use Disney for the jab.
>>96459310But anon, I like Dragon Quest and the Disney Robinhood movie.
>>96457768because conan was so special it needed to have a class dedicated to feeling like conan
>>96459029>IRL Rangers were basically 13th century game wardens.They evolved into something like early special forces in the colonial era, which in some ways is closer to the fantasy archetype.
So what does he have to do with Barbarians in the first place?
>>96458951There are Cossacks in Conan RPG. Just google "Entertainer & Kozak (Conan the Brigand)".
>>96459517I hate this little piece of shit so goddamn much
>>96459567It's common to be jealous of people who are smarter than you.
>>96459517ENOUGH TALK!
>>96457768I hate barbarians but love berserkers and idk why.
>>96457768Because the meaning of terms changes depending on the circumstance and context. In TTRPG context, and broader pop-culture, barbarian means a shirtless warrior surging into combat; not merely a foreign individual as identified by Romans.Of course, the issue is that 'funny term Romans used for foreigners' isn't very useful to describe things if this is a fantasy, science fiction, or any other setting where the Roman Empire isn't a meaningful factor in current events or never existed in the first place. If you just want ancient Germanic tribes in a setting, you should ask for that instead of bitching about shirtless berserkers.
>>96457863What is a pagan?
>>96460792Is your love like a truck?
>>96460913Nothing what's a pagan with you?
>>96459397>They evolved into something like early special forces in the colonial era, which in some ways is closer to the fantasy archetype.Special forces aren't supposed to be weak shitters though. Ranger is consistently useless. Designers hate them more than monks.
>>96457768Kill yourself ESL
>>96457768Barbarian is just non-greek people. If you wanna use the "IRL barbarian" definition everyone is one.Barbarian, to anyone who isn't a pretentious obnoxious retard, means shirtless guy with battle rage.
>>96459129OP here, you make me kek, thanks anon.I know that you're shitspoting, but I agree, with it unironically. Despite all the history and different civilizations that Mankind has, most rpg-makers (therefore mainstream) can't look beyond Tolkien and Middle Ages for their influences.
>>96461359>Despite all the history and different civilizations that Mankind has, most rpg-makers (therefore mainstream) can't look beyond Tolkien and Middle Ages for their influences.They look to Three Hearts and Three Lions, D&D, and Wizardry, far more.
>>96458951>Tacitus seems to disagree with you in his "Germania." Herodotus in "Histories" and Pericles via Thuycidides in "The Peloponnesian" (and Thuycidides himself, later) also directly contradict you. See also "Europa." There has always been a concept of ethnogenesis and identity in every civilization.>t. do not try to fool classics majorsHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>96461365Those all were influenced by Tolkien. Perhaps is too mucj to say, but Tolkien could be the "Jesus Christ of Fantasy", you have Pre-Tolkien Fantasy, Tolkien/Tolkien-like Fantasy and Post-Tolkien Fantasy.
>>96457768I think the real question is "why do you hate Conan?"The "heestoreecalee ackyurate" barbarians you want are just flavored warriors, no mainstrea system hates them or is stopping you from playing one... the classic barbarian class is there to justify running around semi-naked because people love Conan.If you want actual historical accuracy then who would call themselves a barbarian? It's like some non-japanese going around saying "I'm a gaijin", makes no sense for anyone who can lift and thrive in physical labor.
>>96461415>It's like some non-japanese going around saying "I'm a gaijin>He's not taking it back
>>96457768The "problem" you've found here is that Barbarian is much, much wider archetype than it appears at first glace. The progenitor is Conan and if you read the classic stories the only things barbaric about him are his origins. Otherwise Conan is a remarkably well-spoken, fair-minded and even-handed man who looks down on "overly civilized" folks because to him they appear helpless, weak and cruel. Conan doesn't have a berserker rage like we think of it today, he has a survival instinct and no special powers. So when he encounters a giant spider or a gorilla-mummy-demon, he panicks and he goes all out. It's got elements of horror to it. And when he fights against men his superior body isn't what sets him apart (it helps a lot against nameless soldiers but he fights other individually powerful fighting men as well) it's often his martial skill, which is mental. He's also an accomplished burglar as well as statesman, famously taking the corrupt aristrocracy to task for extorting the smallfolk with huge taxes. Barbarian barely touches base with it's roots anymore. It's evolved as a category to include berserkers as well as mystical nature powers. Barbarians now are essentially classified as nature fighters in the same vein of paladins being holy fighters. Which is fine, but something is definitely lost in translation here. Conan is a scrappy warrior unburdened by civilization's specialization. The Fighter compared to his brand of Barbarian is essentially a soldier, someone who can *only* really fight because that's their job. Conan doesn't have a job, he has many survival skills that give him freedom.The best fix I see imho is to rebrand Ranger as Barbarian, and give the current Barbarian bag of tricks to Druids. These are cultural discursive categories though so it's not actionable. If you want a "lore accurate" Barbarian however he needs to be a jack of all trades (explicitly besides magic) and yet forced to do odd jobs due to being an unspecialized yokel.
>>96461497It always makes me smile to look back and remember the first Conan story ever has him already king and he's drawing maps.
>>96461876Yes! Exactly! He's a competent monarch because monarchs are de facto outside of society by being above it. Conan has a deep bag of tricks born out of his rugged outdoorsmanship and many travels. He will never make a good farmer and he doesn't have what it takes to be a brewer or miller. A Barbarian doesn't have those ties to civility like a Fighter might. But you need someone as a sellsword, sea reaver, burglar, bodyguard, assassin, monarch, hunter, horseman or dungeoneer then you would be wise to call on Conan in every case. That's the Barbarian bag and origin. All the magic powers, totemic spirits & berserker rage stuff is best left to Druids. High level Barbarians should be frightening because they could spring almost anything on you and they're accustomed to fighting with fear, rage & hunger in their hearts all at once. The Barbarian is cool under pressure and comfortable being threatened by primal sources, he does not command nature, he is a survivor that is part of it. When you feel the fear you start sweating, when the Barbarian feels the fear he starts thinking.
>>96457768Its like this because early D&D players wanted play a Conan type figure and Gygax when codifying classes saw the range of Conan as described accurately by >>96461497 and thought it was to overpowered conceptually.So he made the concept into a dumbass as a "balancing" call.And because D&D is D&D, it went from there.
>>96457768Barbarian in rpgs = cavemanBarbarian irl = foreign fighter/warrior
>>96462088Barbarian irl = the huns*
>>96457768Because 'Barbarian' isn't a historical Barbarian, it's Conan the Barbarian. That's literally the whole class. Conan.It's not hard to understand.
>>96461980Well keeping in that vein I suppose I'm saying we should have gone the *opposite* direction. Barbarians are cunning warriors and survivors, they don't have the luxury of falling back on civilization or magic so they're pure skill. Barbarians are about CON, INT, STR & WIS they're not magic users or priests. They're not otherworldly warriors, a Druidic warrior tapping into the primal archetype of the bear can afford to be a mindless idiot. As can his friend the ironclad, horse-riding, squire-attended, well-heeled Fighter with the latest in military weaponry. Barbarians, like Conan, should have been defined by being very skilled in everything laying outside of things like cities, holy grounds & arcane study.
>>96462240"NuH uH!! BuRbaRionz ArE BouT cHArIsmA sO ThEy CaN IntImiDaTE"
>>96458055In Greek, it's an onomatopoeia because of the babbling they did when trying to speak Greek (bar bar). In Latin, it instead became because of the beards (from the word "barba, ae")
>>96457768Work on your english and you might improve your media literacy.
>>96458729kek, I appreciate the classically informed humour.
>>96458652>It's the biggest land area on the planet.Having looked at world maps of Abeir-Toril, at first glance it doesn't look obviously bigger than Faerun or Kara-Tur and I don't remember fluff saying it is. While it might be the biggest, it's not like it's the biggest by a huge margin.
>>96461450>taking it backIf that's the angle I'd rather take a word that doesn't make sense for me to take because it means someone respected and important that I, as a foreigner, would never actually be. Why take gaijin when I can call myself Shogun, pissing off everyone in the proccess and titling myself the supreme military commander that usurped the emperor at the same time.
>>96459129Shitpost aside, I'd play a game about being a knight in Charlemagne's court.
>>96457768Why the OP hate so much the "English language"?
>>96459129Project Moon is for insufferable trannies and lib arts faggots (i.e. even more insufferable trannies)
>>96459517Isn't that the little Argentinian nazi boy from Cyber Six?
>>96461497OP here, don't get me wrong, I don't hate Conan, I actually like it for the reasons you have mentionated.My problem with the "barbarian" class is that he's just the caveman meme but in Fantasy's Medieval Europe. When the "barbarians" of real life Medieval Europe were people with refined costumes (also pants), weaponry, artifacts, etc.
>>96457768in modern fantasy, there isnt really a hard definition of what a barbarian is. Its some vague mix of caveman, germanic berserker, viking dude, mostly shirtless, maybe some tribal paintings and with lots of fur on the armor, swinging axe. Not too civilized, either noble or just straight savage. But there isnt really anything hard to pinpoint about how their culture and society should actually be like. What their exact vibe and scenes are. Ask 5 people and you will get 5 different answers
>le shirtless barbarian is a mythHistorylet pseud detected who gets his historical "knowledge" from shitty youtubersThe shirtless barbarian is in no way a myth. It existed historically-and howard's conan stories are in no way responsible for it, seeing as conan wears medieval plate armor in more stories than he goes shirtless in.Trajan's Column literally shows ancient germanic mercenaries fighting in dacia going without tunics or armor to battle. Roman writings confirm that ancient germanic tribes generally went shirtless into battle. Other peoples like the gaelic irish famously disdained armor and wore it little
>>96457768>Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?No, since barbarian is just code name for movie Conan aesthetics and not what hellenics called barbarians, (you).
>>96463086
>>96463097
>>96463086>>96463097all the historical barbarians who went so unarmored also carried big shields to protect their vulnerable meat
>>96463099>disprove your retarded point that barbarians never wore armor>ACTUALLY THEY CARRIED SHIELDSSomething which nobody denied. And there were other historical barbarians who did not carry shields. Polynesians often carried two handed war clubs which negated the use of shields.
>>96457768Realistic barbarians are just fighters from other cultures
>>96463086>>96463097being depicted by artist as shirtless to be more heroic doesnt mean they actually fought shirtless, you big dummy
>>96463115The myraid of sources by the romans that point to germanic peoples fighting shirtless proves that it wasn't just artistic exaggerationTrajan's column is noted for it's artistic accuracy. Why would the romans feel the need to make the Germanic mercenaries fighting for their own side look more heroic? It's not like they were fighting them.Archeological records from Germania show that the iron age germanics were incredibly poor when it came to armor and weaponry. Bone and flint arrowheads were not uncommon, the germanics had practically no domestic armor industry, with most armour in iron age germania being looted or traded from their gallic and roman neighbors.
>>96458055So what Poles call Germans to this day fittingly
>>96463086>seeing as conan wears medieval plate armor in more stories than he goes shirtless inAbsolutely false. Conan wears armor in a handful of stories and ends up shirtless in every single one of them (maybe except for Black River, I'd have to check).
>>96463153Ok, in Frost-Giant's daughter he's armored for the entire time. But otherwise he either undresses or gets undressed or his outfit is torn to rags more consistently than his armor use.
>>96463153Conan is not shirtless in the phoenix on the sword. The fact that he buckles some of his armor on is what saves his life>They stopped short. Conan faced them, not a naked man roused mazed and unarmed out of deep sleep to be butchered like a sheep, but a barbarian wide- awake and at bay, partly armored, and with his long sword in his hand.>"In, rogues!" yelled the outlaw. "He is one to twenty and he has no helmet!">True; there had been lack of time to don the heavy plumed casque, or to lace in place the side-plates of the cuirass, nor was there now time to snatch the great shield from the wall. Still, Conan was better protected than any of his foes except Volmana and Gromel, who were in full armor.Do you actually read the stories or go off pop culture frazetta art?
>>96463153>>96463161He goes shirtless because he is either deprived of his armor or because he is sneaking around and swimming. He wears armor in all other situations besides that.Conan in the hour of the dragon goes from wearing late medieval/renaissance plate armor to wandering around as a mercenary, again dressed in armor. Not exactly going into battle in a loincloth>Conan rode a great black stallion, the gift of Trocero. He no longer wore the armor of Aquilonia. His harness proclaimed him a veteran of the Free Companies, who were of all races. His headpiece was a plain morion, dented and battered. The leather and mail-mesh of his hauberk were worn and shiny as if by many campaigns, and the scarlet cloak flowing carelessly from his mailed shoulders was tattered and stained. He looked the part of the hired fighting-man, who had known all vicissitudes of fortune, plunder and wealth one day, an empty purse and a close-drawn belt the next.
>>96463168You cited ONE story.Meanwhile >Tower of the Elephant>Scarlet Citadel>Hour of the Dragon, from full plate to loincloth and sandals, multiple times>every single Conan as pirate story, with he exception of Queen of Black Coast>A Witch Shall Be Born>Man-Eaters of Zamboula, actually runs around with a stark naked woman in this oneYou're the one repeating memes while not actually reading.I swear I will make a Conan shirt vs armor status excel one day.
>>96463153Conan is a jobber who keeps getting caught and disarmed constantly and has to bailed out by someoneAlso sucks as a thief, every heist of his failed
>>96463189I never once stated that he does not go shirtless in his stories.As i have stated multiple times he only goes without armor because he is deprived of it or because he is sneaking/swimming/ climbing something.He wears armor in any situation he think's he'll go into battle.And it's not like he lounges around in a loincloth either. He wears medieval clothing as the king of aquilonia.>It was uncanny, but those watching knew it was no more than the reflected image of Orastes' thought, embodied in that mirror as a wizard's thoughts are embodied in a magic crystal. It floated hazily, then leaped into startling clarity—a tall man, mightily shouldered and deep of chest, with a massive corded neck and heavily muscled limbs. He was clad in silk and velvet, with the royal lions of Aquilonia worked in gold upon his rich jupon, and the crown of Aquilonia shone on his square-cut black mane; but the great sword at his side seemed more natural to him than the regal accouterments.
>>96463220Conan rarely "goes into battle". Most of his stories are sneaking/swimming/climbing/sailing. And they usually include fighting without armor as well.In one of the pirate stories he starts off wearing nothing but orange trunks and the story never specifies of he puts on anything else for the duration. So he may as well be running around in those orange trunks and nothing else the entire time. There's also multilevel times where he's hurting badly and going on due to his barbaric resilience, which fits into Con bonus to armor class from 5e.
>>96463262>Conan rarely "goes into battle".He does, from the top of my head, in the hour of the dragon, black colossus, the scarlet citadel, a witch shall be born and the people of the black circle. This ignores the melees and skirmishes which he engages in IE in beyond the black river and queen of the black coast, in all of which he wears armor.>Most of his stories are sneaking/swimming/climbing/sailing. And they usually include fighting without armor as well.Failing a heist and getting into a fight does not mean conan intended to fight without armor. Conan is in a loincloth in iron shadows in the moonlight because he's been hiding in the swamps for days. Not because he intended to fight without armor. He wears a loincloth in the tower of the elephant because he's climbing a tower, not because he expects to get into physical combat. >In one of the pirate stories he starts off wearing nothing but orange trunks and the story never specifies of he puts on anything else for the duration.Because the conan stories are just historical fiction set in a fantasy world and howard was writing a pirate story. Golden age pirates did not wear armor historically you absolute retard. And even then some of the pirates depicted in conan's stories wear armor.Conan wears armor when he knows he is going to fight. he does not willingly go shirtless into battle. You'd know this if you actually read the conan stories instead of reading the shitty comics.
>>96463139We call them "mute" which I guess fits too, not a very talkative bunch.
>>96457791>>96461497>And when he fights against men his superior body isn't what sets him apart>it's often his martial skill, which is mentalVery much the opposite.See pic related how Howard describes Conan fighting a skilled human opponent, like this veteran pirate captain in Pool of the Black one.
>>96461305agreed. so here's how you play a ranger>step one: don't pick ranger class>step two: pick Rogue, Thief, Scout or Arcane Trickster>step three: multiclass into fighter>step four: ???>step five: profit
>>96463327based Con'Anon
>>96463086Anon, while is true a number of tribes wore no armor and even little to no clothes, all the Roman art is propaganda. They obviously chose to depict stuff in a way to make their accomplishments more heroic and epic.
>>96458618Barbarians are = anyone not Main™ nation. Which is almost universally is a version of the medieval Europe, or sometimes not!Roman Empire.Against that, every other primitive civilizations are barbarians, from celts to arabs to finns to gooks.They're all less refined, speak nonsense and act retarded.That's the gist.
