Clerics can no longer cast spells while using a shield apparently. This is from the new starter set. WotC REALLY wants to destroy that class fantasy for some reason.
What if a shield is my holy symbol?
>>96465669>equipment cardThis is daggerheart isn’t it?
Based. Clerics are too strong and needed this.
>>96465811No, it's the 2025 starter set that is more of a board game than an RPG. It apes the cards from Daggerheart. The ability to cast with a shield is based on your domain now.
>>96465823That seems very odd. If they just wanted to limit shield usage by domain, they could have just written that within each domain. It just seems like a trap option to tell a new player that they can use a shield, but can't cast spells while wearing it. That'll just make people think that a Cleric forgoing spells or only using non-combat and utility spells is a valid option.And if the Starter set is an effort to simplify, why even include multiple domains that function so differently?
Good thing I don't play dungeons and dog shit
>>96465669>This is from the new starter set.So, completely irrelevant to me. I don't see the problem.
>>96466202>>96466234>Um, why did you make a thread about something I'm not involved in?
>why are random people replying to a public thread on a public forum? where's the downvote button?
>>96466294Maybe he's not involved in it because they do stuff like this.It's the oldest, most popular RPG in the world and yet has some of the most bad and confusing design decisions you could ever imagine seeing.
>>96467039The main bad design decision relating to clerics in D&D has always been the fact that they're too damn powerful. Yes, even back in the first edition they were too strong.
>>96465669It's a simplification of the actual rules because it's a fucking starter set. The actual rule is that you need your fucking hand free to perform material component, which as an exception can be substituted with a spell focus, of which holy symbols as an exception can be borne on a shield or fabric.
>>96467285except for the fact that they can't use swords and the best magic items in adnd are swords. not to mention a myriad of restrictions. nice try tho
>>96465794>My religion uses shields as holy symbols!>Says Lathander on your sheet, mateI see no reason why a custom god couldn't have a custom holy symbol, but would someone allow that when it is clearly a metagaming request? Might as well skip the middleman and ask if you can cast without a holy symbol, same shit.
>>96465669I don't play d&d though???
>>96467656Then keep scrolling??
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>>96467625The shield as a holy symbol or a holy symbol on a shield has always been a meta game move. I've always hated it. I've always made clerics at my table have to use their holy symbol to cast spells OR take a few minutes of intense prayer to cast the spell if out of combat and without holy symbol.
>>96465669Play a paladin then.>Nuh uh I want to have heavy armor and use martial weapons and use shields and heal and buff and nuke and I can't fall!D&Dogshit and its sacred cows were a mistake
>>96465669>Clerics can no longerHah, I'll stick to my 3.5e
>>96471442true meta move is making holy symbol a tattoo, so that cleric can cast by touching her abdomen
>>96467492And they couldn't just say "you need a free hand to cast your spells" instead of implementing a weird misleading rule?
>>96467656You don't play, period.
>>96465669That's nice. I'm not gonna play this shit so not my problem.
>>96465823>more of a board game than an RPGI don't think there's anything inherently wrong with adding board game elements to RPGs.
>>96471488Yes, but it would be out of place in the equipment section of the character sheet. Or character cardboard, I guess.
>>96471671Wouldn't be any more out of place than the current text.
Casting with 2-handed big bonk is a go?
>>96471504>"HEY EVERYONE GET MAD ABOUT THING!!!">"We don't care, we don't play that game.">"REEEE YOU DONT PLAY ANYTHING THEN!!!"
>>96471442I respect and support this decision
>>96466294Threads outside containment are fair game for criticism.
>>96474730D&D and Warhammer board. Fuck off, tourist.
My legitimate guess is that they don't want the white male iconic cleric to look good in art and giving him a shield and protecting people would go entirely against that. Instead he has to be cowering or fumbling for his spell components and holy symbol in every picture.As more and more art comes out for this starter set and the products after it you'll see I'm more and more right. They probably had a dozen focus groups about this.
>>96467285>even back in the first edition>when they couldn't even cast spells until 2nd level and were just worse fightersMhmm
>>96475600Based on the box art, it doesn't even seem like that. They've got a Cleric who is just holding a Holy Symbol and has nothing else. No shield, no weapon. Seems more like they're catering to the people who think Clerics are just robed healbots. Except the only mechanical weight they give to that idea is if the DM asks why a Cleric player isn't using a shield, they can point to how the rules are basically telling them not to use one.
>>96475954This seems kind of familiar. Wonder if it's based on an older book cover.Because if it isn't, I am shocked that it's not some freakshit party.
>>96475976I think it might be. Pic related on the left is from some starter-set tie in pack, and seems to be calling back to Keep on the Borderlands pretty directly.So the box itself being another reference isn't farfetched.
>>96465823The starter set for D&D? They really chose to nerf the class this hard? Haven't other classes been getting new stuff lately? Why hurt clerics?
So OP is a lying nogames faggot, and anyone who buys into his bullshit are nogames faggot retards. The 2024 PHB reads as follows in the entry for Holy Symbols:>A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.RAW, not only can it be used as a spellcasting focus if it's on your shield, but by "wear it visibly" that could also imply that the holy symbol is etched into/painted all over your armor, so you don't even need to hold it in your hand to use it for casting, though I'd imagine without War Caster you still need a free hand to use Somatic components for your spells that have them RAI.I swear to god you dumb fucks will just believe anything some nogames dipshit tells you these days. Read the book, man of dark complexion.
>>96476322Except OP stated it was from the starter set, as opposed to the PHB.
>>96476322I couldn't have made it clearer I wasn't talking about the PHB you shit eating baboon.
>>96476402>>96476483i await the Pathfinder Quest board game to drop so I can call pf2e dogshit because of the choices they made for their board game.Good thing that heroquest is so good, else i'd have to call all of warhammer fantasy dogshit
>>96476575So we're not allowed to talk about weird choices made in a starter set because other people can't read what the thread is about?
My last cleric had a lantern as a holy symbol and so never used a shield because he always had that lantern in his off hand.
>>96476673What about his other hand?
>>96476575All I'm saying at the end of the day is that it's a very strange decision in a very worthwhile product. If this sells right, millions of people are probably going to be learning D&D 5.5 through this product so I hope they made a healthy decision.
>>96476718A sword picked up from a heroic and very dead ally.
>>96476575I'm pretty sure that isn't supposed to be an intro to the actual rpg.
>>96476402>>96476483The PHB takes precedence over some dumb gimmick set made for retards like (you) to learn to play D&D.If you took the layman and told him that yes, he could cast spells with a shield on as a Cleric, but no, he can't cast them if he doesn't have a free hand to perform Somatic Components, he would look at you as if you'd grown a second head.Also, as has been noted, it's more of a board game than it is an actual RPG. Ergo, it is not reflective of D&D 2024 or its ruleset, and you, OP, are still a lying faggot.
>>96477507>"Oh hey, remember you can't cast spells unless your character has at least one hand free.""Oh, okay."Truly incomprehensible to the layman. Much easier to lie to them about how the rules actually work in the real game and teach them wrong, as a joke.
>>96471485Or if male, their dick.
>>96465669Let them destroy it.The people who have the agency to make the kinds of games they like will continue to not be bothered by it.
>>96465669Makes sense. You shouldn't be able to cast spells with somatic component while holding a shield in the first place.
