>uh, no, akshually, hit points are NOT meat points, and the only damage a character AKSHUALLY receives is when they reach zeroThen how do homing spells work exactly?
Who are you quoting?
>>96469116The billion posters I've ended up arguing with who have said this very specific thing, every time I try and bring up targeted attacks/called shots.
>>96469069wtf is a homing spell
>>96469152>has had this argument a "billion" times>begs /tg/ to have it againdumb thread
>>96469156Spells that automatically target/hit whatever you choose after casting. Like Magic Missile. Can't believe I have to explain this on the fucking Traditional Games board. This site has really gone down hill.
>>96469069>HP is meat points when you're fighting a monster, GM describes every hit it takes as carving chunks of flesh from its body, gradually weakening it as the fight goes on>HP is 'plot armor' for PCs that means they don't actually receive a meaningful injury, only flesh wounds, until they hit 0Why do they do it?
>>96469194it's the same mentally ill freak who acts oblivious in every non-general
It's an abstraction.
>>96469069D&D doesn't make the effort to represent the abstractions of fighting stamina and luck properly as HP (such as things that would alter fighting stamina and luck like forceful repositioning, most status conditions, blessings/curses, etc), just as it doesn't make an effort for much of anything beyond marketing, political campaigning, and online damage control.It lays out inconsistent, contradictory, and redundant terms, then tells you to just rewrite it lol.
>>96469237The abstraction isn't properly represented through the many things that would reasonably alter it.
>>96469244OR, and maybe this might be too complex for you to comprehend, it's a mixture of meat points, stamina, and luck, all in one, and it's made that way for you to...roleplay?
>>96469250OR it's just meat points.
>>96469069This is all solved by playing a system which isn't mechanically braindead.
>>96469069You can still turn homing spells aside and get hit somewhere less lethal. 0 HP is when you can't anymore.
>>96469281DnD uses abstraction to make combat more engaging and meaningful. Games that don't abstract injury systems cause PCs to simply keel over the moment they take a serious injury as wound penalties kick in and start disabling you completely from accomplishing anything. Another good example of the smart abstractions DnD uses is THAC0, or as it's currently called AC. Most games try to give players a 'reaction' ability to represent their defenses in battle, but AC makes combat way faster by abstracting it to a mostly passive level of defense and enemies simply have to roll to beat your number, simplifying and accelerating combat rounds significantly. Otherwise you run into shit like Vindicare Assassins in Dark Heresy who get Agility bonus free Dodge reactions per round, AND unnatural Agility, and are likely to have at least 60 Agility base. So shooting at a Vindicare Assassin is how you literally murder the pacing of a round in Dark Heresy
>>96469244>then tells you to just rewrite it lol.That's the basis of every single TTRPG though....Otherwise you're just playing a boardgame/wargame.
>>96469250>roleplayWhether the abstraction is properly represented or not doesn't change the fact that my characters aren't me, so roleplaying isn't the point.
>>96469069If the homing spell was an instant hit, it would be a saving throw where you go down if you fail.
>>96469338Yup, it's autism doc. Gonna have to amputate.
>>96469322>That's the basis of every single TTRPGYeah, it's just a shame that every TTRPG also either has a price tag or a "pay what you want", because there are still suckers who get taken advantage of.More people need to realize that they can just make what they want, and that's what all these books that expect money will tell their buyers to do.
>>96469250No, it can only be one thing. It must only be one thing. So choose. But choose one. ONE. ONE. ONE.
>>96469307This.People always want realism and deep simulation until someone needs to sit there grinding through their turn for like ten fucking minutes.Even in fucking D&D, which is stupid simple, people will sit their hemming and hawing for like a solid minute before ultimately stating "I attack the nearest goblin with a 17, hits, 13 damage."There's more factors at play then the simulation. It's also a fucking game, and I don't want turns to take forever when they don't need to. Sometimes it's alright for things to be a bit of a slipshod estimation if it can speed things the fuck up.It's not a video game. People need to sit there thinking, and then do the math. The less thinking and math there is, the faster shit goes. Obviously there's a balance to be struck, but--not to sound like a total consumerist--it's obvious D&D struck a really fucking good one. That's why it's so popular. Denying that just out of contrarian sour grapes is retarded.
>>96469371Why?
>>96469371>it can only be one thingI dont play d+d, but why? If MP can be a mage's mana reserve, a monk's mental fortitude, a naruto's ninja chakra, a mecha's battery, a pokemon's PP equivalent and so on, why must HP be only one thing?
>>96469389D&D didn't strike a good one because it's had arguments about how badly it handles itself for 5 decades.
>>96469402>Denying that just out of contrarian sour grapes is retarded.
>>96469402People have been complaining about D&D for 5 decades, and yet it's still around.
>>96469413So is communism. Your point?
>>96469391Go fuck yourself>>96469396Kill yourself, you disingenious faggot.>Oh it's... le many things!It's not. There's no use in making this more than one thing because then it becomes ambiguous and ambiguity is the worst thing that could happen to your group and your game. GM and players could game the system by describing HP loss as "oh it nearly missed" "oh it nearly missed" thus invalidating visceral and realistic feeling of the game.I shouldn't have to lay it down for literal neandethals but here we fucking are.
>>96469427False equivalence, not an argument.
>>96469217because pcs getting grievously injured logically comes with mechanical detriments (hobbled leg, losing your grip on your sword, etc) whereas the same being done to a monster can be more easily ignored
>>96469069Like being punched in the gut. How much HP you have is how well you can handle it. How much damage the spell does is how hard it hits. Think of it like boxing.
>>96469431>ambiguity is the worst thing that could happen to your group and your gameThe other way around, its one of the best things it could be. It gives people more freedom to be w/e they want it to be at any given point. Pick w/e it is that makes more sense or will be *gasps* more fun and run with it.
>>96469489>>96469427Alright then. Microsoft. Apple.
>>96469069They home in on your luck.
>>96469564How so you explain beefier PCs tanking frienddy fireballs then?
>>96469431>GM and players could game the system by describing HP loss as "oh it nearly missed" "oh it nearly missed" thus invalidating visceral and realistic feeling of the game.First, how is that "gaming the system"? The HP is still lost. Second, if you don't want to describe everything as a near miss, then don't do that. Nobody is stopping you from describing things however the fuck your group enjoys it.
>>96469194>assumes everyone on tg has played D&D>claims everyone else is the problem
>>96469069>bathing in acid drains your luck
>>96470297NTA but someone not having at least the vaguest idea of the concept of an unerring homing attack across the entire medium of tabletop wargames, pen and paper RPGs and general nerd shit is a bit odd.
>>96469389>t's not a video game.Kinda funny you say that when video games have abstracted damage to the absolute extreme. A boss can kill someone across the room by stomping the ground or roaring at them. Dudes will take a turn to teleport their enemy to the shadow realm and literally slash them 1000 times in a single move with a sword made to cut the universe and the enemy... dodges by sisdestepping.
>>96469281>a system which isn't mechanically braindead.for instance?
It's a game. You niggas are autistic as fuck.
>>96469069>Then how do homing spells work exactly?Like they always have.
What would you prefer? Keeping track of meat/luck/stamina/resolve independently? How would that improve gameplay?Anyway, this thread is based on a false premise as HP loss can represent physical harm as much as anything else.
>>96469069>>96469217>AKSHUALLYIt's a concept that people like to parrot because it sounds cool and clever, but in actuality it's unsatisfying as fuck to not land a real blow until the final hit. Not taking chunky hits yourself until you're down to low hp feels more acceptable as a player which is why it's abstracted more in that way.
>>96469307Wait, you can play as Temple assassins in dark heresy? They must be nerfed to fuck then compared to how they are in lore if they're rolling side by side with some basic ass human acolyte, no?
>>96469194so hat the fuck do homing spells have with HP being meat points or not
>>96470724If HP is plot armor points, then homing spells arent actually hitting the PCs, and thus aren't actually homing.At least i think thats the thought process
>>96469069Hit points was a term coined by the US millitary to estimate the amount of direct artillery hits a combat vehicle could take and still remain largerly operational.Every character you've made has the hitpoints of ONE because thats how many artillery hits it would take to kill them.What you THINK you mean are the health points.
I always describe hits as buckling armour and carving chunks of characters, and PCs as gritting through the pain as they bleed gallons of blood. Meat points are the one true way.
>>96470729Cure Wounds spells would have been a better example, if HP going down doesn't mean the character is wounded, the spell is curing something other than wounds.
>>96470714You use them in Ascension games, and at this point you aren't rolling side by side with basic ass human acolytes, you're rolling side by side with interrogators and high level death cultists.
>>96469194Name three more homing spells. Or did you literally just mean magic missile? Fuckwit
>>96470735>his characters can't tank artillery hits
>>96469069Do you get It is an abstraction? And what about the fact that It is a game?
>>96470669Where do you think we are?
