Where does the idea that the Imperial Guard are elite come from? Some of their regiments are literally recruited from Feudal Worlds where the local have never even seen a lasgun before. A good chunk of the regiments are noted for using primitive tactics including WW1 tactics, Napoleonic style warfare, and even pre-historic barbarian savagery. Their lascannons and flak armor might be good by today's standards but they're not good by the setting's standards, they're not even good by the Imperium's, and everybody else has the armor or toughness that makes the lasgun utterly inadequate. Pretty much every conflict of note ends up requiring Space Marines to pull them through, even conflicts against the fucking Tau which are like 1/1000000th the size of the Imperium.
>>96482859you missed your general bud
>>96482859The vast majority of them come from Hive worlds, and being in the imperial guard is unironically a vast, VAST upgrade to 99% of living conditions in that universe.People *compete* to get into the guard, not only because life for normal people is soul-crushing otherwise, but because the things you think are drawbacks like being in deadly conflict are actually positives to normal imperial citizens.It's not a question of>"No!!! I don't want to fight orcs, I might die, I'm a pussy!!!"It's a question of>"You're telling me I get to slaughter orcs, and I'll get paid to do it?! Hell yeah!"You're assuming they're normal people from normal, modern contexts. They're not.
>>96482903That just makes it worse. Starving, illiterate, disease ridden mutants from a hive world, even volunteers, does not an elite force make. If all you need is volunteers I can get you a squad of African child soldiers who are all volunteers, but they're hardly 'elite'.
>>96482859Those examples aren't particularly relevant when the majority of humans (something like 90%) in the Imperium live in hive cities and guard regiments from those planets are supposed to be composed of the elite of a given planets PDF.Obviously the problem is that the 40k galaxy is so lethal that even the elite of the Imperium's regular humans are barely enough to hold the line, but that's just a part of the grim dark of the setting.
>>96482917They don't take just any volunteers, they actively screen people out and take the best. I literally just finished describing to you that they compete for the honor, and why. Are you actually stupid or something? I was actually getting ready to describe it to you again, but then I realized I'd just be repeating myself because the issue at hand is that you just didn't pay attention the first time.
>>96482965>they actively screen people out and take the bestThe best...of hiveworlders.
>>96483021Yes, you fucking idiot.Look at your own fucking post! >>96482859>Where does the idea that the Imperial Guard are elite come from?I answered your retarded question.Yeah, they're the best.You're a buffoon.
>>96483047Okay so they're the best of the Imperium but they're not really 'elite' by the galaxy or modern standards then
>>96483096By modern standards the average guardsman would make our special forces guys look like pussies.This is mostly because our special forces guys are just slightly above average gang members and drug addicts though.
>>96483176Not really. By modern standards they'd be like...African tier. Maybe elite for Africa...but not by western standards.
>>96482859>Where does the idea that the Imperial Guard are elite come from?Your head and your head alone.
>>96483176>By modern standards the average guardsman would make our special forces guys look like pussies.Probably true in terms of bravery and willingness to march into all sorts of horrific bullshit with his bayonet ready and a prayer on his lips, but the special forces guy is probably a significantly better soldier. The average generic guardsman is typically depicted as a well-trained, competent, professional soldier but not really any more than a soldier from a competent real world army.>>96483243Somewhat ironically the most common place to find that kind of depiction of the Guard is in their own codex, most other media where they play an important role makes them much less retarded.
>>96483243>Not really. By modern standards they'd be likeIt's not really comparable honestly, but in terms of in-universe competency, the average Guardsman is to a US marine what a US marine is to a mall cop.
>>96483284>but the special forces guy is probably a significantly better soldierYou significantly overestimate the level of competency of SoF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Red_Wings
>>96483289If you're measuring by equipment only perhaps. A Cadian might be that elite but certainly not your average hive-worlder who would be recruiting more from the desperate that from the able, and they have to fight alongside people so primitive they've never even heard of a gun before in their lives. They'll be malnourished, diseased, illiterate, they're only the most elite of the rabble.
>>96483326>If you're measuring by equipment only perhapsWith equipment it's hard to make an adequate comparison as we just don't have anything nearly as ritzy as what Guardsmen can get outfitted with. EX do not have a comparative equivalent to say, a Plasma gun, in either rareness+quality nor effectiveness. They outclass us on a whole 'nother level there, basically.But also I refer to base level in-universe competency. Guardsmen are selected from the top 0.1% of the top 0.1% of a given world.> but certainly not your average hive-worlder who would be recruiting more from the desperate that from the ableYour average hive worlder isn't even going to come within a light year of the PDF. And the Guard recruits from the best of the PDF.
>>96483326>Malnourished, diseased, illiterateAside from malnourished this describes our soldiers to a T kek. They have the reverse problem of being malnourished, in that they're all fucking fat.>Nearly 70% of active service members are overweight, report findshttps://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/10/13/nearly-70-of-active-service-members-are-overweight-report-finds/
>>96482859Its because many guard regiments recruit from PDF militias. They're more elite than the entry level unit
Elite Guard Regiments:>Cadians>Catachans>Armageddon troops>Harkoni Warhawks>Tanith First and Only>Elysian Drop Troops>Phantine Skyborne>Lucifer Blacks>Dieprian Mountain MenRetarded slop Guard Regiments:>Drookian Fen Guard>Brontian Longknives>Athonian Tunnel Rats>Savlar Chem Dogs>Royal Volpone>Mordian Iron Guard>Kanak Skull Takers>Last Chancers>Maccabian Janissaries>Necromundan Spiders>Attilan Rough Riders>Death Korp of Krieg>Mordant Acid Dogs>Scintillan Fusiliers>Roane Deepers>Praetorian Guard>Terrax Guard>Gilead Gravediggers
>>96483369>Your average hive worlder isn't even going to come within a light year of the PDF.Do the Hive Worlds get a lot of their PDFs from the nobility or is there some strong middle class that never gets discussed?
>>96483369PDF troopers are generally depicted as being "enthusiastic amateur"-tier soldiers who are basically just an extremely heavily armed police force most of the time, and scraping together the best of that bunch nets you a regiment of unexceptional professionals. There are also plenty of examples of planets completely skipping the PDF step and raising new regiments directly from volunteers or conscripts.
>>96483454It's more accurate to describe the PDF as the middle class.
>>96483465>PDF troopers are generally depicted as being "enthusiastic amateur"-tier soldiers who are basically just an extremely heavily armed police force most of the timeYeah, comparable to modern militaries, though they're often much more selective since they can universally select from an entire planet's worth of people for the most competent, and force them to join. Unless you think they do actual policing because no, they typically don't. >There are also plenty of examples of planets completely skipping the PDF step and raising new regiments directly from volunteersName ten.
>>96483494The Imperium probably expects the planets to send them their best but let's be frank, there's no way the Administratum can make sure that actually happens with any degree of remote accuracy.
>>96483520Doesn't matter because we are directly told they're the best of the best.
>>96482859The Imperial Guard isn't elite, the Tempestus Scions are. And even then they're pretty lackluster compared to the infantry of the other factions.
>>9648352040k also doesn't work on real life logic, in theory a planet with tens of billions of people on it that exists within a highly militarised empire where being attacked by all sorts of nasty things is a very real (though quite remote in most cases) possibility should produce an excellent army for its defence, but in practice the PDF are pretty much always depicted as being poor quality troops incapable of doing much more than temporarily holding the line until the real soldiers arrive because that's the common trope within the fiction.
>>96483572>the PDF are pretty much always depicted as being poor quality troopsCompared to the guard, yeah.Compared to real life? An average American Rifleman has to spend thousands of rounds of ammo to kill one enemy combatant.A PDF trooper takes 9 rounds to hit and kill another human in flak armor.
>>96483596If you're going to be using boardgame statistics then by that logic the lasgun only has a range of 25 feet.
>>96483645>If you're going to be using boardgame statisticsIt's not a boardgame, and these are objective measurements of how often they need to fire to hit and kill something.>the lasgun only has a range of 25 feetAlso hilariously wrong even if you tried to use direct conversions. We don't need to anyways because the ranges of lasguns are provided in-lore.
>>96483719Where in lore does it say a PDF trooper hits one in nine times?
>>96483728Imperial Guard Codex, any edition.Incoming cope post!
>>96483733Can you post the quote?
>>96483733Screenshot the page.
>>96483757>>96483769Chill anon, no need to samefag because you got called out. I'm busy eating din dins atm but you can just look up the ballistics skill of a guardsman and a lasgun's strength.
>>96483785>ballistics skill of a guardsmanWe were discussing lore, not the tabletop.
>>96483789Relax anon, the codices are lore books and tabletop rules, they do both things yanno. First time hearing abt 40k?
>>96483805Post the screenshot then.
>>96483817Nah I'm still eating dinner. Like I said you can just look it up, infact I'm p sure they have it on wahapedia too if you're too poor to get a codex.
