I want to play the superior PF2, but all the in-person groups I can find only want to play gay ass D&D 5e. Fuck this shit hobby. Why does the far superior game have to be far less popular?
>>96498551>Why does the far superior game have to be far less popular?Welcome to /tg/. Have fun seething at popular systems. Enjoy your stay.
>>96498551>far superiorSis...
>>96498551>I want to play the superior PF2, but all the in-person groups I can find only want to play gay ass D&D 5e.
>>96498693>>96498671Seethe. I played 3.5. 5e has 0 effort put into it from top to bottom. Might as well play AD&D at that point, at least it has some semblance of flavor.>SisI was shocked a game could be more pozzed than a Paizo game, but holy shit, they did it. I don't wanna play no fucking gay ass wheelchair game.
>>96498749>SeetheSays the guy who made a thread about crying how he can't find players
One of my pet peeves is people who bitch about others not playing anything other than dnd5e, and then it becomes clear that when they say "not dnd5e" they mean>dnd4e>pathfinder 1e>pathfinder 2e>shadow of the demon bitch>draw steel>daggerheart>mythras>70 other dnd heartbreakers or dnd adjacent games
Most people in the hobby don't want a tactical skirmish game. All the "refugees" from that brief blip where people totally gave up D&D forever went right back, or drifted elsewhere once they realized PF2e is dogshit if you aren't into build autism.
>>96499227Well yeah, 5e has nothing to do with those other games. 5e isn't D&D, it's advantage rolls. Not sure what the confusion is.>>96499229>Most people in the hobby don't want a tactical skirmish game.Then why are they playing a bad one?
>>96498551You could just, you know, run the game you like.
>>96498551If you're a GM just fucking run what you like, especially if you're the only one willing to run a game. Your players have no right no force you to run what they want and if that makes the group die so be it, no game is always better than bad game. If you're a player then fucking get off your ass and run it yourself and I'm sure at least your GM will support you.
>>96498551PF2 is dogshit, though. I’m not singing the praises of 5E over here, but there’s definitely a reason you can’t find PF2 groups.
>>96499375But you don't know anything about it.
>>96499375It's better than 5e by a fair margin. >t. Running PF2e while playing in a 5e gameIf I had my way I'd just play Nechronica or whichever obscure system I happened into earlier this month for the rest of my life but if you made me pick between PF and 5e I'd pick Pathfinder any day of the week.
>>96499539Of course you enjoy pf2e more than 5e, your playing as the DM and have access to running all the monsters with cool stuff while the players have to suck you off the entire game
>>96499569That isn't even true. PF2 characters have way more agency than D&D characters. 5e barely has any rules, most things have to be negotiated with the DM too.>yourAh, it's bait, my bad.
>>96498551DnDrones will brag about how their game is the best because it lets them ignore all the rules and do whatever they want, but when presented with a different system, suddenly it's too hard because they need to read all the books and only play rules as written.I wish there was a name for this phenomenon.
>>96499636It's called being a zoomer tiktok brained little bitch.Also the other anon is right: most people don't want a tactical battle game, but then they only know D&D, so they have no idea other games that aren't D&D exist and would serve them better.
>>96499636A lot of it can be attributed to how much responsibility 5e puts on DMs and how it created this illusion that they're supposed to know literally everything every time including how to play the player characters. There's very little keywords to streamline combat and other actions and while the simplification that was done does make it a little bit easier to learn it also creates a fuckton of uncodified edge cases that frequently pop their head especially when spells are involved and since it's the DM "job" to adjudicate it the players aren't encouraged to learn much beyond the very basics, so when they interact with a system that actually treats them like a literate human being and expects some modicum of reading they break because that's not the loose and improv heavy play style they became used to. Mind you there's nothing wrong about liking to play like this but that wasn't what DnD was ever about and I doubt it was the main objective of 5e's designers but it ended up becoming heavily associated with it due to how much attention it got from Critical Role and other livestreamed actual plays.
>>96499332A player putting effort into making the game run? Are you out of your fucking mind?
>>96500042I am a DM actually. I think people really underestimate how hard it is to find players in certain countries that don't have a strong TTRPG base.
>>96500060Just play pathfinder2e with your players then. I bet half of them won't even be able to tell unless you explicitly tell them it's not DnD. And if you don't have your own group, then you see why you have to cultivate your own stable of players.Advertise your setting and story and run low commitment one-shots until you have a group of people you can ask to run a campaign with.
>>96500099Anon, I don't have an in-person group. That's the whole point.
>>96500103Then go to line 2 of my comment. You are a GM. You rise above the sea of mediocrity that is the hobbies player base to act as a shining star for others to follow. Creating your own group is a skill you must now master if you want to get the treasure at the heart of the hobby. If you say you are going to run a game online, you will find people. Most of them will be unreliable flakes but you can build a group if you're willing to suffer to see it through. Online players are willing to join a game as long as it’s clear what you're advertising to them.Provided of course, you are not doing it in some tiny language like Oromo or something.
>>96500155No, I don't think you understand. People don't search for games over here, they search for D&D. If you go online there are a couple groups for TTRPG meetups, but they are D&D groups. If you go to gaming stores (which are few and far between, and typically tiny), they play D&D. It's all D&D.Unless you're talking about online stuff? I don't want online stuff, I already have an online group.
>>96500191Maybe talk with these groups? Ask if they would be interested in trying something else with you running and if they still reject your offer then it unfortunately wasn't meant to be.
>>96500191I was assuming that you were talking about online but there is also a solution to this problem too.Bamboozle them. They show up for DnD, you throw pathfinder on the table. Become that guy. Either you get a game or you don't get to play in their groups anymore - which you don't want to do anyway as they only play DnD. Or do >>96500219 if you want to be less aggressive with it.
>>96500233>pf2e players are so desperate that they’re making schemes to trick people into playing their “superior” game
>>96500219I'm trying reddit right now, maybe I can find someone there. It not I'll probably try posting something one one of those groups being like "anyone interested in trying something different?">>96500233The problem is I wanted to try an old school style dungeon crawl rather than a story about self-inserts who never die, so I want to be upfront about that. If not for that, it would probably work.
>>96500251Try convincing a 5e player to play literally anything else.
>>96500251I don't even play pathfinder, I've just had experience with people who never want to play anything but DnD and claim they will never try anything else. You have to treat them like toddlers who are refusing to eat. >>96500263Low stakes one shot. It's the best way to introduce a new system. Pre-made characters and if they all die it's funny instead of the end of their special Mary Sue.
By the rules of capital, wouldn't the superior game capture a larger audience, and thus more players?
>>96500417Why is it always you frog fuckers who post the most retarded shit?
>>96500417I bet you think that Goosebumps and Harry Potter are the world's greatest examples of literature.
>>96500417Just took your first lesson at Econ 101?
>>96498551Because it's not "far superior".It's marginally better, because the system is rarely the limiting factor in your enjoyment of the game. Every system has pain points because RPGs are basically unable to be playtested in any rigorous way, and fantasy adventure systems broadly do similar things.Your enjoyment mostly stems from the company you're playing it with, and your GM's preparation and skill.
>>96500431>>96500450>>96500525Go easy on him guys. Every thread on 4chan needs a moron.
>>96500579>because the system is rarely the limiting factor in your enjoyment of the game.Unless you're retarded. If you're not, you realize that it's important to actually give the DM tools to run a proper game.
>>96500579Player opinion detected.System is central to the game you run, it's central to what you can even do at the table. Better systems better games.
>>96499569I started learning the system as a player and decided it was better than 5e while playing it. Like the other anon said, 5e is too undefined when it comes to PC actions and turns pretty much devolve into attacking every round or mother-may-I for Advantage. Even Fighters in PF2e have varied enough options between defined tripping/grappling/disarm rules and such. The system has plenty of issues but even from the player side it's miles ahead of 5e.
>>96500629Not at all. System mostly just saves you prep time for whatever scenario or story you're trying to create. The math rocks or specifics of the sequence of play aren't that important; all the big systems have degenerate loops of anti-play. But again, nobody has the time or resources to playtest all the mechanical permutations that might lead to a game being broken wide open.You play D&D because you want generic high fantasy adventures. You play Vampire because it has a bunch of stuff out the box to play vampire urban fantasy. Coming up with all that shit on your own would be a massive time sink, compared to coasting on hundreds of hours of writing and editing that the publisher and creator invested into the books.RPG horror stories are rarely the result of problems with the game; they're almost always social problems with the people involved.
>>96500689I dare you to run a vampire chronical in 5eDnD and then fantasy dungeon crawl using 5eWoD and try to tell me that the result was functionally identical to how you would have normally played. Even with limitless prep time the end results will play drastically differently.Sure, you can run a good game with a shit or poorly fitting system if you have a great group of people. Critical roll succeeds by basically ignoring the ruleset most of the time and relying wholly on group dynamics to carry. But you could have run a brilliant game with a great group and a great system. Any semi functional group of adults can avoid ending up an RPG horror story by just having basic social skills. That not the point. A bad system can easily lead to a frustrating or boring time for the GM or the players. Good systems make the likelihood of this happening far less.
>>96498551"I hate people playing d&d, I really wish they would play d&d instead"
>>96498749>> i think that’s bait.> aha! I angered you! You’re crying right now!> consumes paste to celebrate
>>96498551PF2 might as well be the same game as 5e. All the differences are basically cosmetic. Same story with 3.5. People who claim 3.5e/3e was "the good old days" are just larping as grogs.
>>96501024The kind of people who bitch about dnd5e players refusing to switch to, for example, pathfinder2e don't understand that the there are other genres than Goblin Whackers. You tell them there's games where the climactic high point of a session is finding a taxi that's been impounded and they're like apes looking at a monolith.
>>96500785I'm going to point you to the Without Number games as an example of how one set of mechanics can cover everything from dungeoncrawling to space opera to cyberpunk competently.System does not matter as much as you think it does, or in the ways you think it does.>muh crittersHave you watched the LA by Night and NY by Night APs? You can make a very similar criticism of ignoring the mechanics for drama and vibing with the group dynamic.
>>96501070Nice projection.
>>96501070Yeah. Fundamentally, the setting is the same, the stuff you do in the game is the same, combat takes up roughly the same amount of any given session, and the out of combat mechanics are basically identical.
>>96501024>>96501070>>96501164But you don't even know the game.
>>96501118And I'm going to tell I don't like the without number games or godbound as they are too mechanically tied to OSR and dungeon crawling, often to the detriment of what the settings are trying to do. I've had 2 groups bounce off hard from godbound and stars without number. The systems did not fit well with what we wanted out of them.All the popular APs fall into drama over mechanics, as it makes for watchable TV to many people. Yes TV. They aren't trying to do what a lot of people are trying with their games and it shows. You can ignore mechanics and go for drama if you want, that's a valid table style. But it certainly is not the only table style or the one that everyone wants to play. And different table styles require different approaches, different approaches need systems which fit them aptly. You put a tactical ttrpg player in a critical role game or LA by night and they would be bored stiff desperately wanting all the shit to end so they can put tokens on a grid. DnD and pathfinder are both ostensibly tactical fantasy ttrpgs and are meant to appeal to that. To different levels of success.Systems do matter for the kind of game you are playing, they do matter for what you can do at the table and how the entire thing is approached by both players and GM. Some systems don't even have that distinction between player and GM.
>>96500666Play a board game if you don’t want the DM to make rulings.Pf2e had plenty of dm rulings just like 5e. It’s cope that it’s different at all
>>96501693I make plenty of DM rulings as it stands. I don't have a problem with making them or asking for them, but 5e puts so much onus on the GM to just figure it out that it's a pain in the ass from either direction. If I want to try and disarm an opponent in 5e I have to figure out how the GM wants it rolled. If I want to disarm in PF2e then that's just a predefined Athletics manuever rolled against the target's Reflex DC; there's no extra bandwidth being taken up by coming up with something on the spot, and that bandwidth can go to actually important rulings like last Saturday when my party was trying to figure out if they could burrow thorough the paved top of a road to sneak up on a pair of snipers that had them pinned (the answer was no, but there was a spot nearby the building where the pavement had degraded enough to count as loose rock that put them in a slightly more precarious position while still getting them close).
>>96501693Even people who play 5e know you're full of shit.
>>96501932>gives an example in which both games has a rule written to resolve it.
>>96499227Dnd 5e is fucking awful to DM, I dont have that problem with PF2e and Daggerheart.
>>96502144>Dnd 5e is fucking awful to DMWe switched to PF2E after the ogl shit. Fuck me it's sooo easy to DM, especially when it comes to treasure and magic items.
>>96499227None of those other games are 5E. Your pet peeve is retarded.
Can any 3.5e/PF1e oldfags (can't believe that's an oldfag thing now) tell me how hard PF2e is to actually get into? I know about the different levels of proficiency, the 3 action system, the variable action spells, etc etc. I made most of a character at one point. Is the combat actually better than 1e and more in-depth and fun? Is it better than 5e D&D? I actually like 5e a lot just for the fact that I can make homebrew monsters real easy and experiment with new abilities, and the math is fairly well-balanced. And multiclassing random archetypes together is kinda fun. But obviously there's not much material in it. Pathfinder 1e I can make almost any build work, but it sucks usually. I miss 3.5e where I could make a hobgoblin warlock/hexblade with a double-ended warhammer and use him as an enemy and it was still pretty fun. hard to do in 5e or even Pathfinder 1e cause multiclassing gets nerfed so hard.
>>96502851Get the basic set and play around. You can find it online, and its simple to set up. It should be pretty easy for a fellow 3.5 chad.I'm just starting with it, but so far seems pretty easy to get into. It's also a fundamentally different game than 5e, it's a combat game, 5e is not, or at least not in the same vein as 3.5e. I can tell you there are no multiclasses, instead each class has subclasses. Both player cores are 90% build autism.For combat I really enjoy the fact that it's usually really clear what your character can do in combat (great for GMs too because its easier to teach), and so far I'm enjoying the 3 action round. It simplifies the combat in a good way, it's a kind of simplification that actually gives you more tools because everything you do have is viable, and because the devs can tailor each action to the class, if that makes sense. It can feel gamey, yes, but it's a game, so for me personally it's a positive. There are very few arbitrary restrictions to what you can do too, which is another thing that takes a lot of cognitive load off your shoulders. Want to spend 3 actions attacking? Go for it. Want to cast 3 spells? As long as you have the actions for it, you can.I don't have experience with higher levels but people also say PF also holds up a lot better for levels above 10, and is just more balanced and easy to homebrew. I've also heard other people say the tags can get out of hand, but I'm not sure.Other bonuses are their business practices aren't complete dogshit, there's no D&D beyond style trash and they actually sell proper PDFs. That's what ultimately pushed me to try it, and I'm really glad I did.
>>96498551You think you'd want to play with the same people if only they played a different system?
>>96503140I'll check it out. Almost got to try it since my gf's brother was gonna run it but then we broke up and the campaign never happened.
>>96503140>and they actually sell proper PDFsI still can't believe there isn't a single 5e pdf in 11 years.
>>96498551Every one of these threads is resolved by hosting your own game.
