>years ago when I first got into 40k (around 5th edition)>gold standard and goal of playing 40k (as presented to new players) was narrative campaigns and games, exemplified by the standard set by Imperial Armour>pickup games were just what you had to settle for most of the time because most people have busy schedules>tournament play was kind of niche and competitive players were looked down upon as unfun waacfags by most of the community>now>gold standard and goal of playing 40k (as presented to new players) is playing in tournaments>pickup games are the norm because they're either a break from tournaments or preparation for tournaments>narrative play is niche and narrative players are looked down upon as autistic retards by most of the community>but the primary draw of the game is still the settingWhat the fuck changed? WHAT HAPPENED???
>>96502852>man yells at cloudstl;dr the greentext
>>96502852Being sentimental towards "your dudes" and their journey in narrative games/campaigns doesn't sell models as well as tournament fuelled stat obsessing.It's liberal economics; line must go up!
>>96502852Grifters realized they could make money by grifting 40k
I'd just like it noted that I'm amazed no one has ever made a Planet of the Apes Tabletop game.It seems so obvious when you think about it.
>>96503359What’s your lore then?
>>96503611longer than yours
>>96503611Have a few ideas. They've never really materialised. One of them being a gentleman of Stirland; Jammycount Shortfeld, leading his local 'trayned bande' of militia and clubmen against villainous bands of greenskins, bandits and beastmen. Thinking of using a mix of wargames foundry Swiss, old glory and GW bits if I ever get round to making them. Would aim for a less affluent look than fancy landsknechts you see more often in Warhammer.
>>96503689I love that book. And the Empire at War one. I think the latter one was the one with a dude telling you historical wars and how they were won or lost.
>>96503689>>96503672Usual shit >Oh I’ll get to it one day>Erm it’s too long >Uh I had this You “your dudes” of muh setting types are always the same sitting in long dreamed ideas but never doing shit and instead jack off to others who actually do stuff online
>>96503720
>>96503714Have a pdf of that, got it from the trove, good book.>>96503720What dudes do you have anon? What's wrong with having ideas?
>>96502852Games tend to cater to people who play them, not to people who just think and talk about them
>>96503720You described the /yourdudes/ sentiment perfectly but this is not the right people. I don't think any of them are 40kgers to begin with.
>>96502852Narrative play WAS the golden ideal and GW catered to that idea for a while, but multiple factors played into it being sidelined in order to normalize tournament play:1. Forge World fucking died, probably because Alan Bligh died, and Imperial Armour was the main thing championing narrative play in 40k before it died. There were also planned to be three other books like Tamurkan for WHFB, one for each chaos god, but that idea died with Age of Sigmar. With Forge World no longer hyping up hobbyists with ideas for narratives, and GW's attempt to pick up the slack with their own narrative campaign books falling flat on its face, the collective consciousness revolving around narrative began to fade.2. 8th and onwards started to attract the MTG crowd, since a big part of 8th's marketing was streamlining 40k and getting rid of many of the more narrative-ish game mechanics baked into the game. I've heard a MtG player describe 7th ed 40k as "an RPG-board game hybrid," which is a ridiculous claim, but whatever, that's the types of people the game started attracting.3. This is the bigger reason, NARRATIVE CAMPAIGNS ARE MUCH HARDER TO ORGANIZE, MAINTAIN AND PLAY THAN TOURNAMENTS. People started realizing this, and with forge world dead, more people became aware that tournaments are the easiest way to get in multiple games in a single day. And then GW picked up on this, and started designing the game with competitive play in mind.
>narrative gaming is niche>the age of Your Dudes is basically dead>competitive gaming is the defaultHoly shit, Warmahordes won.
>>96502852That's a load of complete shit. I got into 40k as a kid with 3rd and tournaments have always been the way to get in a weekend worth of wargaming (and debauchery) in. They weren't niche. Normal fully functioning players could (and still can) distinguish between tryhards and competitive players at large, and normal players aren't looking down at narrative players you stupid cunt. You getting this retarded shit from 4chan?
>>96503764>>96503735There is nothing wrong with /yourdudes/ there never was however this board is just ass, you guys look at this shit like a cargo cult and whine about how it doesnt happen as much nowadays. All you do is post the same magazine articles or larp but do nothing to improve ANYTHINGI like to look at the alt schemes GW provides with very little lore, I pick a scheme I like and roll with it. My loyalist Marines are mainline sadly but I do this with less poster boy stuff>Death Guard - Glooming Lords Origins started as a Siege Company in the great crusade, were largely unbroken compared to most Chaos warbands they are now currently the main contingent of 6th Great Plague Company. The upper echelons of the Glooming Lords are filled with former high ranking Apothecaries and Medicares of the heresy who use forms of concoctions, illnesses, and experiments anywhere they can. Usually, telling their main siege forces to try and leave survivors in daring trench raids and underground assaults. Currently, they are hunting craft world Altansar as a Plague Surgeon had brokered a deal with a demon where the demon only wants the defenders of the craftworld to suffer while the Glooming Lords will never say no to fresh test subjects >World Eaters - Gladiator Cadre 331 While they still retain the original colors of the legion, the their leader in factl oved Angron and adopted many gladiatorial practices Angron had ordered the legion to obtain. Even once the nails were forced they all followed their father to hell. What was figured out though was practicing gladiatorial regime was able to keep the nails at bay. The same practices the slaves on Nucrina adopted. It wasnt until Angron fell and the legion fractured Cadre 331 that resurfaced taking in outcasts and those who regretted the nails. They are now a feared World Eater warband where many enemies expect mindless berserkers they are met with feints, ambushes, and outflanking maneuvers
>>96504049Moriana spoke on. Whole worlds had been reshaped, their continents given over to gaming venues and tables, hosting not the Your Dudes kino of our nearly forgotten IA sourcebooks but the more recent hobbyists of the last near-decade: the hardcore waacfags of Warhammer 40,000, a competitive game.A competitive game.Language cannot convey the effect those words had on me.‘A competitive game.’ Moriana said again, when Chambers asked her to repeat herself. He had stopped as if struck, his thoughts running so acidly rancid that I felt them pressing against my senses. Priestley had been exultant, roaring his laughter to the sky, so gripped by euphoric revelation that I thought his heart might seize. If you have ever walked an asylum’s halls, you know that laughter. It is something beyond mirth, beyond elation. It is a release, a dam that breaks in the back of the mind to let madness pour forth, preventing the brain from drowning in poison. A competitive game. I tried to repeat Moriana’s words but my mouth refused to give them shape. I was laughing myself.Priestley could barely breathe. The laughter sawed in and out of his mouth, wheezing and wet, hacking as if he’d ruptured something in his throat. Chambers stood dumb, trying to process what he had heard. Trying and failing.A competitive game.They believed 40k was a competitive game.‘A competitive game,' I finally managed to say. I was laughing with Priestley. A cruel, spurned mirth, not the amusement of the victor but the bleak joy of the beaten. ‘Warmahordes won.’ Priestley was on his hands and knees in the dust, blood trickling from his mouth. He laughed and heaved and vomited and laughed, speaking between dragged breaths and violent convulsions. ‘Warmahordes won. It eats dirt and drink shame. It grovels and begs and pleads to stay relevant. It lost everything. And yet it still won.’
>>96504179cont.Now my loyalist marines are primaris (OH GOD NOOOO) and are even inspired by a BL book (OOOOOOH THE HUMMANITY NOOOO YOU CANT DO THAT) please note inspired you all forgot the reason why BL books exist they are meant to inspire you. Now the book in question is an old book called "The Hunt For Voldorius" its about Raven Guard and White Scars teaming up to hunt an alpha legion demon prince. The book had mentioned both chapters hated each other but the book ending with the bad blood being buried for what they did that day. This marine force is basically doubled up on White Scars and Raven Guard. After the Damocles Crusade had bloodied both chapters they grew closer and no often more than have multiple battle forces in the Indomitus Crusade where both the White Scars and Raven Guard are leading the tips of the spearShall I talk about my Shadowkeeper Custodes too? Fucking faggots why do I even bother with this place its a shithole after the hack
>>96504179>>96504255My apologies I didnt know you had game like that but stop acting like a faggot who cares a fucking gay ass book inspired you
>>96504255>>96504179Who cares to much power armor marinefag pay piggie
>>96504117Hmm, let's check the places outside of 4chan.>plebbit: calls for removal of narrative play as an option altogether>facebook: people get confused when you suggest playing narrative campaigns instead of tournaments>youtube: hobby influencers treat narrative play as "le hidden obscure gem" as if it didn't exist for years as the default mode of play. Pic related ("le crusade is le best??? HUHHH????" and it's a fucking tranny advocating it). Hobby influencers who do not treat it as "le obscure hidden gem" either treat it like it's for children ("awww, look, he's playing narrative!") or deride it as they go back to talking about the meta and tournament winnings and charts and whatnot>My Local Game Store: Hasn't seen a narrative campaign event since 2018. Has hosted dozens of tournaments since then.
>>96504255>>96504179>Primaris sloppa>Nu chaos sloppa>Doesnt even make his own schemes or lore just piggy backsYou didnt win faglord you are GW paypig cONSOOMER FAGGOT
>>96502852I personally blame GW slowly losing a focus on verisimilitude in favor of simpler, gamified mechanics and fixed loadouts. I can point to two specific examples in 8th that demonstrate this change in attitude.Strategems: Strategems were a way to simplify and replace what were previously unit abilities and special tags. Instead of having a specific unit, weapon, or formation with an ability, you use a moba-like activated ability to get that function. This strips away the identity of the units who lost their abilities strategems. Thematically, this strips a unit of its narrative defining abilities and instead locks them behind a fucking board game style activatable ability, which really hurts the ability to narratively connect with a unit. If my hive tyrant has Regeneration, then thats a unique trait I can ascribe to him and him alone, something that can come up and be played off in a campaign. If all hive tyrants have an activatable ability that grants regen, then all that narrative meaning is lost. By stripping away unit abilities, GW stripped the ability to define a unit through its mechanics.The second was the death of customizable loadouts. This is obvious when you loot at modern monopose monoloadout sculpts, but its very evident in the Primaris line. In earlier editions, the kit of a tactical squad told you something about that squad, its doctrines, its place on the battlefield. It was easy to get attached to Brother Johan and his lascannon after it saved the squad from that carnifex. Primaris stripped most of this identity for bland, monoweapon units with prescribed doctrine and personality. Its harder to connect narratively to a unit which cannot be customized, which has nothing to distinguish it from any other similar unit that exists, and it encourages viewing them for what they can do, rather than how they characterize your army.Tldr: The way GW designs 40k changed, and the culture changed around it.
>>96504299>Hates Trench Crusade and begins to talk out his assMan chuds really are a sad reality. Almost every other website complains about comp play and want narrative
>>96504299Damn aint it ironic? The same guys complaining that 40k lost its narrative soul also then cry over Trench Crusade....its almost like these threads politically charged spergs
>>96504318I also think the lore changes at the time had an effect, as space marine players were given an absolutely godawful narrative stinker and then told to accept it. Space marine players being the majority, when they stopped being invested in the narrative of their dudes (because their dudes were actively being replaced by a narratively less interesting but mechanically superior version of themselves), they dragged the rest of the community with them.
>>96504255>first founding chaptersFirst Founding chapters make up less than 1% of space marine chapters, faggot. If you were a real narrativechad you'd play a chapter that isn't nearly as overrepresented. Also, too much power armor, marinepiggy.
>Guy gives out lore>Nitpick insanely and complain he has to much marineskek this board is a crock of shit a bunch of angry white people who wouldnt even hurt a fly in person
>>96504321Almost every other WARGAMING COMMUNITY complains about comp play and wants narrative play. You know which community doesn't???THE GAMES WORKSHOP COMMUNITY!!! Sure, a few do, but we've been dying out for over a decade. In another decade, narrative gaming won't be anything but you naming your minis and homebrewing, because there won't be any official support of narrative rules anymore, and the game will resemble some fucked up tabletop version of a moba vidya game even moreso than it already does.The Games Workshop community is a lost cause. All the narrative hype fled to all the other wargames. Except for the warmahorde faggots and malifaux faggots and infinity faggots, but they're subhuman anyway
>>96504369I have seen numerous youtube comments and reddit threads complaining they dont like comp shit and facebook is like /tg/ 2
>>96504369>Hating on infinity tooMan no one likes you guys you are no game faggots
>>96504364He collects nothing but marines and custodes. He's a faggot, Your Dudes or not, and he probably takes his dudes to fucking tournaments anyway BECAUSE HE'S A FAGGOT.
>>96504318>>96504332I want to add to all this that I play exclusively 7th edition with a group of friends, and we do narrative games regularly. I'd recommend this, or any pre-8th edition really, to others dissatisfied with the modern direction of GW. My introduction to the setting was 8th, and in playing 7th its really clear how much the mechanics of the game itself encouraged narrative over complay compared to 8th. If, like me a few years ago, you've never played an older edition and want to try it for yourself, give it a shot! The rules are easily available online, and TTS is a good place to test out the mechanics without investing in an army and having to find an IRL group to play with.
>>96504321>>96504330When the fuck was trench crusade ever mentioned?Are you fucking RETARDED??? DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THE BITCH IN THAT THUMBNAIL IS TALKING ABOUT 40K NARRATIVE RULES CALLED "CRUSADE," NOT TRENCH CRUSADE???? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU???
>>96504390>7thSwitch to 2nd ed, Necromunda, BFG and Epic Armageddon for the trve narrative experiences, anon.
>>96504428I've been meaning to check out Necromunda, Epic, and BFG at some point. Idk about 2nd tho, I've heard good things but I'm also somewhat worried it'll be so far back as to miss some of the stuff I really like about 7th, mostly its strong Renegades/Heretics support.
>>96504401thanks! yeah, the trench crusade is pretty cool. i like the models and attention to detail.what have you been enjoying with the introduction module? i think its layed out quite well and is good for an on boarding for hobby.
>>96504435I like trench crusade, but the compfags are already trying to ruin it.
>>96504459thanks! ruins of murkhill are something i dont know much about, though i hear good things of planet eris gazetteer.what about compfags makes you feel that way?
>>96504497Trying to turn everything a competitive game at the cost of narrative
>>96504501yeah it really is a shame that ron edwards recanted his previous missives, made for good gaming material.
>>96504625>ron edwards recanted his previous missivesWhat?
>>96503611The Chathoan 461stMechanized infantrySpecialize in night operations and tunnel fightingTheir regiments china bears the Chathoan crest with the crossed lasgun and the picks or their heritageDuring their initial muster they pressed large numbers of mine workers into service who barely knew that natural light wasn't a myth and who accordingly had experience operating heavy machinery. So combined the 461st ably showed adept at fighting in the darkest pits of hive worlds, and while armored more than capable of fighting in more traditional battlefield as wellTheir first commander Colonel Matheson Friedrich went down fighting a lichtor singlehandedly while separated from the rest of his men near the end of a particularly brutal campaign in the deepest pits of the little known or cared for world of Umbratha. After the Volonell so boldly sacrificed himself to uphold the mission his men buried him with a Chathoan opal (signifying the Emperors light the soldier had valiantly brought to the darkest places of His dominion), which there after became the funeral rites for the honored dead
>>96505141Sounds gay, show us your tournament wins.
>>96503611My Imperial guard havnt had a game since 6th edition. I had fun making them, but due to most of them being made ftom other (much cheaper) figure ranges or scratch built from card, the current lot of "GW products only!" drones don't accept them. I like to think they have settled a nice peaceful farm world somewhere, having fun doing patrols, polishing their gear, farming and having children.
>>96504299You're trying to tell me even "hobby influencers" are in on the derision and you won't even drop one single name let alone post evidence? It's insulting how gullible you think I must be to try this on. However fucking retarded you think I am that's you and then some.People look down upon you as an autistic retard because you are one. If you started in 5th you're pushing 30 at bare minimum and you're obviously lying like a schoolkid.Stores are full of dysfunctional, dead weight, bottom feeding trash like you. If nobody has run a campaign for you since 2018 (guessing it wasn't one of you but your store owner running an escalation league type setup for crusade when it was newish) it's probably because they were sick of bending over backwards for """""people""""" that can't get their shit together for regular games despite the game store basically acting as a respite centre that you spend inordinate amount of time hanging out in. It's bad enough getting you retards to submit correct army lists and registration fees by the cut-off for a store tournament and that's for usually only one day and at most two of herding you useless fucks.Evidently enough of your community is lucky enough to have a 3rd place elsewhere so they don't have to put up with your shit at the store you haunt. The guys at my club have stopped playing 10th because there's fuck all customisation anymore and they're sick of stuff getting Legendsed, the guys that used to organise for you are probably doing the same wherever they are now. The only good thing about storefags is that you've got no free will and are easy to convince to do shit provided it doesn't take too much effort or organisation on your part. In all that time have you actually considered organising a campaign yourself? A narrative day even?
>>96504318It has been a 'slow death of customisable loadouts' with every edition, moving from what was fun and random to 'What we are selling'.. In 1st ed Rogue trader, you could have marines carrying almost anything - autoguns, lasguns, shuriken catapults, etc. You could even roll on random charts for each one and have fun customising the models yourself. This tied in well with continuous narrative games as you could kit out you marines with weapons they had looted in previous battles. Good times.
>>96505083You are arguing with AI dude.
>>96504255>>96504179That's barely yourdudes, as the others said that's just copied official schemes and lore with a bit of extrapolation.This is yourdudes:>Sororitas convent on the dark side of the great rift (nulore but it helps the rest work)>Corrupted by taint, though they do not realise it>Worship, devotion, and zeal, turned into the worst of excesses>convent used political ties and infiltration to gain control of a small Imperial navy detachment, breaking the decree passive>Expanded to control multiple worlds across several systems>Reign of terror, the sisters take hedonistic pleasure in purging "traitors" and "heretics">Nuns placed in every political office to keep them in line>Nuns placed in the militias and pdfs yo keep them in line (act as commissars)>Kill your nun? Entire platoon and their families purged>Rumours of debauchery and cannibalism>"Saint" is actually a powerful rogue psyker with great combat skill>Lesser "Seeress's" are actually psychically gifted sisters>Use of demonhosts excused as "using the enemies tools against them">colour scheme based off of Ironlily's Ordo Meidare" as I'm a fan of hisAll that's done using the 3rd ed Witchhunters codex, because nuhammer is for micro dick fags.
>>96503407I hate every ape I see, from chimpan-a to chimpanzee
