I'd like to buy the core rulebook for either 2e or 4e but I can't decide for the life of me. I own quite a few splatbooks for 2e and the starter set for 4e, would converting stats be a chore (from 2e to 4e and vice-versa)? I love the "vibes" of 2e but i'm afraid i wouldn't be able to convert all the books from 4e. What would you guys get?
1ehave fun with your tourist shit
>>96517756>I love the "vibes" of 2e but i'm afraid i wouldn't be able to convert all the books from 4e.Why do you need to convert stuff? From what I could skim and remember a lot of the atmosphere in 2e and 4e is quite different; especially as 2e is default set moments after Storm of Chaos ended, so half the settlements and infrastructures are ravaged and non-functioning (even major ones like Middenheim). 4e is like more generic in terms of lore. Like if you're converting adventure modules it's not gonna jive with each other, so mind as well just play 2e or 4e straight.
>>96517756I'm talking a bit out of my ass (only played 1st and 4th), but I'd go with the fourth one. The manual is 350 pages, and the system feels like a smoothed out version of 2nd ed, especially in like profession advancement and magic.The only thing I kinda dislike is the cumulative Advantage system in combat. I'd nerf that to a single point of Advantage, have a single momentum value for the whole group (players or enemies), or just forget it altogether. (There was a single advantage point in 1st ed, and most of the time people forgot it was even there and never used it). It just slows down combat with bookkeeping, having to remember who has Advantage on whom, and the numbers stack up fast.Outside of that, it's a super neat system.Don't worry about converting stuff from other games. This isn't a certain system (you know the one) that's supposed to be powergamed. Half the fun is playing some toothless peasant your career roll stuck you with, or a merchant who ignores plate armour because it makes no sense for them to be trodding around in it. It's up to the GM to make sure well roleplayed characters don't get killed unfairly. Just handwave what you need to and make calls at the table.
>>96517756C7 have an official 2e to 4e converter on their site, so it shouldn't be that hard
>>96517756The 2e setting stuff is a lot better, and, in my opinion, the 2e core book is far more complete than the 4e corebook.The 2e book is gonna be more expensive if you're looking for a physical copy, unless you luck out on eBay.
>>96517994>>96518162>>96518165>>96519200Thanks anons
>>965177564e is practically unplayable RAW. Way too many moving parts.
>>96520517So you'd stick with 2e and use 4e splatbooks as source materials? That was kinda my plan but i'm still not sure about it
>>96520532There isn't any reason to use 4e splat books if you're using 2e. The 2e setting stuff is leagues better than 4e (for the most part, there are some duds, the campaigns are kind of railroady and the companion has a lot of shit you won't need.)>>96520517 this anon is right, 4e core is kind of busted and *requires* supplements. It desperately needs a revised edition, it has rules fixes spread throughout several books, including the campaign books. 2e works out of the box, the only issue is there is some disparity in utility of certain careers, but it isn't game breaking.
>>96520532It's absolutely far from unplayable. Our group played the system for several campaigns just using the main book.4e works better out of the box than 2e. The additional material helps for sure, but it's not needed.
>>965177562e shits all over 4e and there's nothing worth trying to back convert from it.
>>96520747>4e works better out of the box than 2e.I do not understand how you could think this. What doesn't work "out of the box" in 2e?
>>96520863I do not understand how 4e is "unplayable" either.I know that many people here tend to homebrew 2e when it comes to the massive amount of whiffing, blackpowder weapons being bad, or the economy hardly making any sense.So, how is 4e "unplayable"?
>>96520874I wasn't the one who said it was unplayable, but I do find it to be a massive downgrade.The core book has fuck all for enemy stats.Advantage is pretty busted.I deeply dislike the way they changed corruption.4 different metacurrencies is clunky and stupid.Point by point leveling up is dogshit. The entire character creation is incredibly fucking bloated.Magic is pretty incomplete in core.Those were my main takeaways. 2e has a pretty robust bestiary in the back, it has a starter scenario in the back that is okay, and the default setting is far more interesting and gameable than the nostalgia wank that is 4e. You have much more of an immediate, built in reason post storm of chaos for a nobleman, a ratcatcher, an apprentice priest, and a thug to be traveling around together in the old world that doesn't exist in the 4e era.
>>96520874Oh, and as for the whiffing, it's as much of a problem starting out in 4e as it is in 2e, and people in both editions seem to forget that, outside of combat, you should usually be rolling at a +20 for most checks, if you even need to roll at all.
>>96520907In my experience talents are incredibly obnoxious as a whole, especially the part where they give SLs for very specific things. It's just such a pain in the ass to keep track of it all.
>>96520917I respectfully disagree with most of the points, aside from Advantage, it needs to be limited (for which there are options in the main book).Starting characters whiffing in combat a lot works for the game, you are just bumbling retards smacking swords at each other with hardly any skill. Lots of players and GMs like to speed things up here and give more EXP on character creation, so that PCs don't constantly hurt themselves. Don't think this was really ever different in 2e, unless you had a spiteful GM that loved to run it as misery-simulator.
>>96520930And fuck me, I forgot the main point: Combat past the first career is much more enjoyable in 4e. Basically, almost always something happens, talents can be very strong and decisive, strong characters can feel like Conan killing dumb skaven shit left and right and engaging dangerous foes can be a tactical treat. Characters in general feel way more competent.Maybe that's too heroic for some. But what's Warhammer without some heroism?
>>965177564e and 2e are cross convertible with some work. 2e is the one I prefer.
>>96521040Thanks. Which books do you have?
>>96517756>core rulebook for either 2e or 4eThe gurps version
Wfrp's combat literally does not work if you don't use a mat/grid/battlemap. The combat system is all about disengaging and charging back in, flanking, that sort of thing. As long as you keep this in mind, any edition is fine.
>>96517829False Wargrog Faggot doesn't know shit.
>>96521521I'd say it's more that the system reaches its full potential with a grid and minis, not that it's unplayable without them>miniatures encounter on a mat: it's late, everyone's tired, not much plot left, and you just wanna chill out rolling dice and moving counters>fast-paced narrative combat: there's still a lot of story to get through and you want to push further, ignoring the granular advantages, flanking, charges, zones of control, to keep things moving>1v1 cinematic duel: for that high-stakes showdown with the villain, going all-in on the advantage rules and describing every parry and riposteIt's super versatile.
>>96520949The exact same thing can be said about 2e. You get better. You get better pretty quickly.
>>96520930>>96520949Everything you are describing applies to 2e as well. You can start with more exp/grant more exp per session, your characters get more heroic as they advance. So, all of the things that you like about 4e are in 2e, without the bloated, dogshit character creation, the absolutely tedious character advancement, and a more complete core rule book.Oh, and they got rid of righteous fury in 4e because of how damage works. In 2e, you pretty much always roll a d10 for damage, and if you roll a d10, you roll damage again. This was super useful because a certain talent had you roll 2d10 and keep the highest, so combat characters could start fucking people pretty quickly between that and multiple attacks, and even a low exp character had a chance to get a lucky hit in.
>>96521107In pdf form only, damn neat all of them. I might not have bothered grabbing a couple adventure books. If I had to name three must haves besides core? Old World Bestiary, Tome of Salvation, Tome of Corruption. Night's Dark Masters also ranks. The skaven book is good but the editing was terrible and you will have to fix shit that survived its rushed publication. The Bretonnia and Kislev splats are both worth having if you want games set there or to heavily feature characters from either.
>>96522434>The Bretonnia and Kislev splats are both worth having if you want games set there or to heavily feature characters from either.They are also just fun books with good lore.
>>96522441That's also true, though like the skaven book they came out of the oven a little too early and you may need to make judgment calls. But I recommend them.
>>96522403>Oh, and they got rid of righteous fury in 4e because of how damage workand added crits that are valid & cute, instead of just making an HP bar shorter. it's way more fun to actually maim things.
>>965224034e uses opposed rolls, though, for combat and thanks to the advantage system, it never really feels like two dudes whiffing at each other. One always gains some kind of advantage.
>>96522653Ah, you've reminded me of another downside of 4e: every fucking roll in combat is opposed, slowing down combat into a massive fucking slog because you've doubled the amount of rolls that have to be made at any point.Thank you for reminding me, it's been awhile since I ran 4e.
>>965226512e still had critical damage tables.
>>96522669I take both opponents skills actually mattering.
>>96522680when you're 0 HP, it's not the same as during combat
>>96522680He's talking about the crits you deal when you roll doubles in combat.It would help if you were familiar with the system you're railing against.All I can say is that I've run both 2e and 4e extensively and my players unanimously prefer 4e.I think it's kinda janky but holds together much longer than 2e. And the SL system on its own is worth the change.
>>96522669people don't roll parries or dodges, when attacked in 2nd ed?
>>96522895Sorry, it's been a while since I've ran 4e because I didn't like it. I much prefer the older Crit tables to the damage system in 4e. Just like everything else in 4e, I found it to be unnecessarily clunky.
>>96522651Sure, a critter rolls a crit, the other rolls a parry with 5 SL, oh well stillt ake 1 wound and a crit!Oh well 'guess you got 4 bleeding conditoons on your arm now, sucks!Horrible way of doing things.As many said before, 4th is horrible, the Talents are dependent on the advantage mechanics, which make combat either too easy as it moves along or TPK pretty quick.Also, the book itself is badly edited; the fact that careers are sub-divided by Class make searching the careers a damn chore, why not just list them all alphabetically right off the bat?The info is also scattered all over the place, a shit trick to force you to buy every damn book for 1-2 careers, 1-2 talents, 1-2 new foes or cults.game wise the universe is also quite boring in 4th, almost generic fantasy, much so with the added diversity and women all over the place, the social order being an in-game mechanic now, oh you just found a little fortune? Well you HAVE to spend it all or hide it/put it in a bank, which you still got 10% chance of loosing it all for some reason. Because hey, you can live your life as a rat catcher forever now, dumb poeple who do not wish to grow over their station yet despise everyone above him, and how about those characters, straight out of damn NOVELS of all places, added into the lore as to give them legitimacy.
>>96522903The opponent needs to hit first, then you get to roll one parry and one dodge per round.
>>96525951I once saw someone get decapitated by getting parried. It's clown shit.
>>96525970I had a Goblin roll a 33 (out of 33WS) and the PC (Inquisitor General) rolled 5 SLs with his parry, yet ended up with a cut artery in the arm and 4 bleeding conditons, wearing mail and leather armour and moving about too.At least a crit when aprrying, you can put it as a counter-strike, but parrying like a pro then you get stabbed, fucking ridiculous.Also, the Magic miscast tables are so fucking weak! The worst you can get is a magical shockwave for 1d10 damage,compared to 2nd ed, where you get sucked into the Realm of chaos and a deamon takes your place.Removal of insanity points and mental disorder as well YOU CAN'T ROLEPLAY MENTAL DISORDER, IT IS NOT RESPECTFUL, THINK OF THE CRAZY PEOPLE (who don't play) AND HOW THEY WILL FEEL WHEN THEY SEE YOU GOT TO ROLPEPLAY A MENTAL DISORDER!Corrpution is basly done as well, they should have gone the way fo Dark Heresy. Insanity for horrible sights, corruption for direct warp 'infection'
>>96525998>Also, the Magic miscast tables are so fucking weakThere is a minor miscast that gives you 5 bleeding stacks which is absurdly deadly.
>>96526007Well, conditons are another thing, a bit too much like D&D to me, not to mention poison's pretty meh as well, no more poison like mandicore spoor fail a couple of tests and you die.The +20/+40/+60 vs the -10/-20/-30 makes thing swa y too easy at first and near impossible ot fail after a couple of careers +assitance+good gear/item/knowledge.
>>96525998>>96525951Seems like D&D and other heroic fantasy games where your characters are super heroes that can never fail or have bad luck is more suited for your tastes.Just wear armor or spend points. There are so many ways to negate crits like this
>>96526953Which makes everything not as grim and perilous when you have 3 saves with mail.
>>96526964Yeah, the deadliness of the system is vastly overstated. At least past a certain level of playing the game.Although, I feel it's on the GM to put enough challenges out there. But PC can become reasonably tanky after a while.In any case, random crits happened fits the game, combat is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, and sometimes just bad luck fucks over your character regardless of skill and preparations. The gods are cruel.
>>96526978Thing is running EW, the combat encounters are just too weak for players angled on combat, and having goblins with stats in the 60s or 70s make things pretty suspicious and a bit 'gamey' like it's the Elder Scrolls, where the NPCs level with you.In my case, even socially they're good, they're also pretty investigative due to their careers. Frankly I'm just using their past actions (and those who survive) as motivator for now, while the main plot moves a bit back in town.But again, level 4 PCs are simply too powerful. The horrid career system also makes it that you can begin as someone 'strong' as in having weight; Witch Hunter for exmaple, it should not be a starting career you can get while spending your starting XP- which is another silly thing, roll and be some race with some career you don'r care, but get 'free' XP, or choose and begin with nothing, a level 1 bum instead of a level 2 somebody.2nd required a few careers before getting to Witch Hunter.
OP here. I ended up buying the 2e rulebook and Sea of Claws (converting stats from it and the Starter Set shouldn't be too hard), thanks to whoever replied to this thread.I guess this is a WFRP general now?
>>96532893Nice, how much did you end up having to spend?
>>9653310865€, not exactly cheap but i'm quite happy
