My group is gonna start a Shadowrun Second Edition game soon, any general advice or world knowledge that would be good to know? I was hoping to play as a Decker or Rigger but the GM said he didn't want to handle Matrix stuff so it would be more of a general thing.
>>96543884>2EGood call.Put all your points into Firearms and Etiquette (Street). Never deal with a dragon.Watch out for the Universal Brotherhood.
>>96543884Why are you coming to tg to ask about tabletop games?
>>96543884The GM not wanting to handle matrix stuff is kinda fucking lame.
If he doesn't want to deal with the matrix often then rigger objectively better since you'll get to control machines to do stuff.
>>96545371Nah, it's reasonable if they're all new to the game. Matrix shit can be a game ruiner if everyone else spends their time sitting around the table doing fuck all with their thumbs up their asses.
>>96545631It was pretty much this, he said it was essentially a second single player game and would bog things down/ be too much work
Is there really no Shadowrun general here? I thought the game was somewhat popular.
>>96546591It's the most popular rpg in Germany, but it's like #6 in America, and this is mainly an American board.
>>96546591There used to be a very active /srg/ here until 6th edition came out and killed all interest in it among the fans here.
>>96546295He's correct.
>>96546295now I have to use it just to prove a point to the fucking brick I call my GM
>>96543884Adepts are bullshit but idr if they were in 2e
>>96546612>most popular rpg in germanyit is? i've never heard anyone talk about it
>>96554766>AdeptsIn SR1 Adepts could break the damage codes easy.In SR2 an Adept is the most useless kind of character you can have unless your GM lets you play a Path of the Wheel Adept from Tir na Nog, in which case you have a lot of RP restrictions and are just a better Street Samurai, but outside of that NEVER play an Adept in SR2.In SR3 Adepts are probably at their most balanced, because they excel at doing things that cyberware can't do, but if you want to play a combat focused Phys Ad you were better off accepting some essence loss with Cyberware, taking a Geas or two to get the magic points back, etc. Also there were loads of debates 20 years ago about SotA2064 introducing the idea that an Adept doesn't need to be Jump and Punch Man.>>96555065It was insanely popular in Germany from 2nd edition until 5th edition.With 6th edition, even in Germany SR is starting to lose a lot of people.Though generally you find people who are either super into DSA or people who are super into Shadowrun, rarely do you see crossover between those groups.>>96550351The /srg/ died because of a couple of turbo-autists who replied to almost every post in the /srg/ threads with WHY ARE YOU DUMB, YOU SHOULD KNOW EVERY SINGLE SR BOOK ACROSS EVERY EDITION AND NOT SAY STUPID THINGS, any time anyone asked any question or any time someone posted about how their table did something that didn't fit RAW.6th edition just was the final nail in the coffin.
>been looking at 5E>kind of thinking about playing a Technomancer>read through the Matrix rules>read through the Technomancer specific rules>had to go back five or six times>Technomancers are either stupid good or terrible depending on how you interpret the rules>Big chunks of how the Matrix is supposed to work just make zero sense as written and intendedI was told that the Matrix didn't make any sense until 3-4E, got weird in 5E, and got terrible again in 6E. If 5E doesn't have the worst Matrix rules then I don't blame your GM for not wanting to use them.
>>96543884I watched a video the other day where someone described the backstory of Shadowrun and holy fuck is it stupid
>>96563178The best settings are the ones where you have to ignore the writers shitty metaplots. Even you could do better, after all.
>>96563155Technomancers are sad because they are just shamans but digital. Summon sprites and let them do the work, because they suck shit as actual hackers. Not exactly weak, just boring as your character is nothing but a summon spam
>>96563155>MatrixI only know 2e, 3e, 4eSR2 matrix, as others have said, is a single player game.SR3 matrix is made to be done in real time so it's still a separate thing the GM needs to keep track of, but it runs more smoothly.SR4 Matrix has a lot of problems, but was built with gameplay and real time play in mind so it works if one ignores the oversights.
>>96563325I built him as a face/hacker. He's much better at face stuff than he is at most hacking as you'd expect.>>965633615e Matrix is everything is wifi. Not even normal wifi, weird quasi-mystical wifi.
Is 12-15 dice in your primary thing really sufficient as long as you can also shoot fairly accurately in self defense?
>>96561114>Also there were loads of debates 20 years ago about SotA2064 introducing the idea that an Adept doesn't need to be Jump and Punch Man.Technically, SOTA 2064 just introduced the concept for SR. Earthdawn had established that adepts are way more than just Jump and Punch Man upon its inception in '94. SR was just catching up as magic kept branching out.
>>96563155I suspect that the correct way to play a Technomancer is Elvish Electric Batman.
>>96543884If your Storyteller doesn't want to handle matrix stuff, don't make a character that does shit with it. Make a character that you are happy with playing and that simultaneously she is happy to run for. If you try to force it you get this back and forth where either she is annoyed she has to create pigeon-holed situations a specialty she told you she didn't want to run for or you are annoyed none of these situations have room for a specialty you were, again, told not to focus on.
>>96543884There is going to be a temptation to overspecialize around a concept given the amount of options you can throw at doing one thing until you basically can't ever fail. I am going to tell you now. Do not spend everything on being the best possible niche thing, cause there are going to be plenty of times where that niche doesn't come up. I can't tell you how many times I would up playing with some dude who wanted to be the driver or the sniper or the hacker or the stealth guy or the face and then was left sitting on their thumbs anytime that thing wasn't applicable. By all means have a soft specialty, that is great, but be sure your character is 50% that and then 50% general usefulness to fall back on. Also make sure their whole personality isn't just that one specialty, cause that gets annoying too.
>>96546612>>96555065The local popularitybof the games is strange.For a period, around 2010s the second most popular game (after dnd 3.5) in italy was an italian game called Sine Requie.I never met anyone on /tg/ that knew about it
>>96566064>she
>>96568217Because the board is 60% Murricans, 20% Brits and 10% each Germans and Poles.
>>96568265It's an easy way to get my you's from people that are hypersensitive to that kind of thing and are willing to tattle on themselves.
>took money E>everyone says that a rating 4 fake SIN is necessary>would have to take a negative quality just to afford itIs it really necessary at chargen or can I wait until a run or two in to grab it?
>>96561114/srg/ died because the vast majority of Shadowrun "fans" don't know a thing about the system or the setting. Oh, and some autist confessed he had such a hateon for anime OPs that he deliberately tried to bump it off the board.>>96569906That depends on your GM but I'd say that you shouldn't get one because most GMs are unprepared to test SINs as it is and if you go without one it forces them to think.
>>96546612In America it's dead last for popularity these days. Cyberpunk has regained its relevancy.
>>96565042Earthdawn has super-evolved mystic adepts, not Shadowrun adepts.
What's the state of the metaplot these days, chummers? I haven't been around since 4A. Any recommended books on the latest?
>>96571906
>>96571906>What's the state of the metaplot these days, chummers?You'd unironically have better luck asking this question on r*ddit or a d*scord. /tg/, and most places, have stopped paying attention to 6e's metaplot except to make fun of it. >Any recommended books on the latest?All of them?Otherwise, you could try Neo-Anarchist Streetpedia, Cutting Black, then the assorted 6e books.
>>96571933Metaplot took a dive into the retard end of the pool with the introduction of immortal elves way back in 2nd or 3rd edition? I am pretty sure it hasn't gotten any better since then.
>>96571953Immortal Elves are mad underrated and if Nigel and Carl didn't kick the bucket you'd be eating your words.
>>96571953>>96571973Also, Immortal Elves are from 1e.
>>96571933Oh, what a shame. Thanks, anyway. >redditI don't even have an account.>discordWhich one? >>96571973Yeah, Harlequin was cool, even if immortal elf GMPCs got tiring after a while. Universal Brotherhood is still one of the greatest RPG supplements ever published.
>>96571983>Which one?All of them.
>>96571906My understanding from the wiki is that Seattle declared independence from the UCAS after Ares had another major bug incident.
>>96572351God, I hate that. And you just know it was because they thought it needed to be more like Cyberpunk.Do they even have any other plots besides "UCAS loses a major city" anymore?
>>96572441Seattle becoming independent was foreshadowed since its debut. Cyberpunk may have influenced when it happened but out of everything CGL's done that was forgivable. You ought to pull out its first sourcebook.
We've all forgotten about The Furry Surge, right? *gulp*RIGHT?!?
SR6 may be dead here but someone's gotta be buying all these shitty books, they're popping them out one per month, a faster pace than D&D. It's probably dumb euros.
>>96575915With how often people talked about krautrun here they overlooked frogrun. Can't speak for anyone else obviously, but I've found that while SR is dead as a doorknob in its homeland it's still trucking along elsewhere. Makes it all the more painful for me.
>>96576038>overlooked frogrunDid anything good every come out of Frogrun? Like homebrew or excellent local language supplements? Krautrun got its reputation not just with popularity of sales but also because the German SR community developed a lot of good shit for it.
>>96576057Much of the so-called "kraut fixes" were actually proposed by the franks first. They put out Neo-Revolution and recently have been working on Anarchy 2.0. It started with them. I'm getting the feeling your only exposure to krautrun was through word of mouth here.
>>96575887The problem with the SURGE imo was that it produced a very limited set of Changelings was that you were basically stuck playing a furry based on the range of options offered with relatively little outside of that.
Why is it so hard to get players for this system? A few months ago I posted a public ad for a game. Nobody showed up except for a single rando that bitched out when I threw in a single complication. I thought this was supposed to be a popular choice, but it seems if you don't already have a group long established for it you're screwed.
>Considered making a Drake>Worried it would be too snowfalkey>Check the rules>There's a lot of downsides and the upsides aren't greatHuh.
>>96577190I think Cyberpunk having a renaissance kind of took the wind out of Shadowrun's sails.
>>96577709That's a major understatement. It blackpilled me so hard I'm not sure I'll ever try to GM again.
>>96577730>>96577190Every edition since SR4 has further fractured the base thanks to bad management and wild changes to the setting/system.Combine that with Cyberpunk now being the popular one and you've got a mess for anyone who likes Shadowrun.>>96577289Drakes are basically the "I am paying loads of points/karma/whatever to force the GM to run shit around the existence of my character" race.Its benefits, as you noticed, are lackluster for the many many downsides it has, but it is designed so whenever the GM wants he can just fuck with you or the team.
>>96578852CGL's catastrophic mismanagement should be looked at in more detail for how much it got fucked over. Everyone knows about the embezzlement scandal but that was over a decade ago now. It wouldn't explain the utter balkanization of Shadowrun.You basically can't find players or GMs for this nowadays outside of some LCs once in a blue moon. >Combine that with Cyberpunk now being the popular one and you've got a mess for anyone who likes ShadowrunI spent way too much time babysitting an awful group solely because despite their bad qualities they were at least willing to play Shadowrun. You wouldn't know how low I had to scrape the barrel to get something out of it. There were people who kept assuming Seattle had the same climate as Night City, continually acting like their character was from a Cyberpunk game, and more that made me feel totally isolated. It's not a good time to be a Shadowrun fan.
I’m writing my own game right now and learned halfway through that I inadvertently made a game that’s very mechanically similar to Shadowrun.I’ve unfortunately never met anyone who plays it, so I might have to try running it myself sometime. I liked the SNES and Genesis games based on it.
>>96578852I'm trying to work out if there's anything that's actually exploitable. Hardened Armor is cool, but two points is not. Mystic Hardened Armor is really neat if it's useful in more than just Astral Combat, and it feels like it's intended to be but it's hard to pin down where.>pay to give the GM a big button that they can push to screw with usIt's not even snowflakey for the reason that I was thinking that it was.
>>96581476There is one very obvious "exploit" you can do with a drake that isn't immediately obvious with its description in 5e: You are 100% immune to HMHVV so you can do things others are unable to, but that's doable with latent dracomorphosis. No plot baggage, no karma debt, only a nice gimmick.Besides that the real value of the drake quality is meta for understanding what your GM will let you get away with. Generally I've found that drakes are most at home in high power games where infected, bug spirits, and AI in anthrodrones are also on the table. The fact that none of those GMs understood what they were playing with and quickly burnt out may be important.
>>96571983>>96571953>>96571906>>96571913Did they ever canonically say who killed dankalzhan?
>>96581360I feel sorry for your player situation, but it's not a SR issue. I ran FL's Blade Runner and I had explain whan a replicant was over and over again, the players kept assuming they were bip boop 50's robots. Some players sit down with a preconception and you'll never get them to play something that fits a shared experience.
>>96582097Yes, way back in the Dragonheart trilogy. Shadowrun was big on novel tie-ins during the FASA era.
>>96582216It's not like it doesn't happen anywhere else but at least you can solve your issue by having a Bladerunner movie night. I'm up against a video game and anime and having to explain to these people repeatedly that things don't even look the same as they do in Cyberpunk.
>>96563155Some of the main benefits to Technomancers in 5E is that they don't need MARKs to do stuff, and are pretty much immune to Overwatch Score, so they can skip several steps in hacking and stay indefinitely in the Matrix without leaving any trace if played right. But like Awakened characters, they have little use for cash and are very Karma hungry. They're also very vulnerable to damage, taking Matrix damage as Stun damage, in addition to Biofeedback.The other main benefit is Sprites. Unlike Agent programs, they have a separate Condition Monitor and separate MARKs. So you want to use Sprites to do most of your work for you, tanking any cyber attacks that might come their way, and only hack stuff yourself if you're built for it and it's very important. Even outside of hacking, Machine Sprites are really useful, because they can give you a bonus to use pretty much any piece of gear that's connected to the Matrix, including shooting smartguns in combat.
>>96581476Drakes can use their own scales as reagents.
>>96582279We watched at least a couple clips, it didn't matter. You see a lot of that in D&D. They set up an idea in their heads and noone can't move them away from that, including themselves.I would had assumed that SR being so particular would skip preconceptions, starting with the magic and politics while leaving the tech for the very end. But you can't beat those people, it's just how they are.
>>96582357My understanding is that for a Decker to do something like swipe a file on someone's device they'd have to:-Mark the Icon (Brute Force or Hack on the Fly)-Crack File (Attack action)-Edit File (Create a copy)Whereas a Technomancer can either have a sprite do everything above except Edit File for them, or:-Puppeteer the persona that owns the file and have them create an unprotected copy-Editor the unprotected copy to make his own copy and delete the extra copyThe Technomancer version happens to involve soaking a face full of drain but also lets you steal a file with the target none the wiser. My understanding is you can't puppeteer hosts though, and hosts seem like one of the sticking points for a Technomancer vs a Decker.
>>96582542A couple clips isn't enough for the whole movie to sink in. But the problem with Shadowrun is worse in some ways because it requires an adjustment in perspective. Some things that appear similar have their differences in the details and brushing over those makes the experience worse. Chummer, not choom, and so forth. >you can't beat those people Can't argue with that. But I will stand by the fact Shadowrun is a different degree compared to a tabletop inspired by a movie. These days the likelihood you'll get a single player, let alone multiple, who will be able to understand the idea of augmented reality spam is nill. >starting with the magicSo you'd think, but for many of these people all that means is an elf or ork with a gun that didn't have to pay for surgery like they'd have to in Cyberpunk.
>>96582357>Some of the main benefits to Technomancers in 5E is that they don't need MARKs to do stuffCome on anon, do you really need to say such blatantly wrong things these days? Technos still need marks to do most matrix actions. Some specific resonance voodoo doesn't require marks but that won't help you when it comes to the actions that require them. For example, getting onto a Host. >>96582774>Puppeteer the personaYour understanding is way off. Maybe you ought to reread the puppeteer text and note what it actually applies to? Fucking hell, who wouldn't get fed up seeing brainlet takes like these 24/7...
>>96582837>Puppeteer targets a device and forces it to take a Matrix action>A commlink is both a device and a persona when in use>Edit File action is a complex action that only someone with a Mark or the owner (persona) can useMaybe you should go read the fucking book dumbass.
>>96577190>>96561114I'd say that /srg/ was in agonal state since April 30, 2021 (I hope you recognise that date, chummers) and >>96575887>>96571933autists screeching about r*ddit or a d*scord or 4rries and their build-to-order SURGEs.
>>96581476They're the only type of playable character that can learn Draconic Magic. Draconic Magic as a tradition is good, and it gets better if your GM is enforcing nitty gritty rules about lodges, spirit tasks, and other such things.
>>96582542>They set up an idea in their heads and noone can't move them away from that, including themselves.Our GM--whom I like as a person and is a good GM--is under the perpetual impression that the area outside of Seattle is a desert due to environmental damage. One might assume he's getting it confused with Night City in Cyberpunk, but I don't think he's even played that so I have no idea where he gets it from. Otherwise he gets the broad strokes of the setting right and we've never really interacted with the metaplot or gone outside of Seattle anyway so it's not really a big deal, but it is damn weird.
