>>96553173
>Amenti Edition
What is your favorite part about Mummy: the Resurrection?

>>96553218
I like how they acknowledged South American mummies with the Teomallki. Sexy latina immortals fighting for the balance of the world is CANON in WoD.

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Wondering how would these fuckers fit in the verse, and how would the various splats react to a full-blown invasion rather than the generic infiltrate/skirmish/terrorize. Mutons and garou ducking it out? Mages and ethereals dueling each other? Chrysalids fucking everything?

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>>96553546
You know that classic WoD fanfic "Pencils down Death rays up" ?
That would happen.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10239811/1/Pencils-down-Death-rays-up

A full blown invasion would involve the Technocracy, Garou Nation and even fucking Camarilla, Sabbat and Tal'Maeh'Ra fucking things up for them.
You will see Changeling Kingdoms actually mobilize fully. You will see Wriaths taking the Labyrinth's paths to the space to counter-invade, including driving their ghost aircraft carriers to the alien mothership if needed, equipped with ghost nukes.

>>96553546
Well... Mage sort of confirms aliens are real and leaves enough "space" (pun intended) for pretty much any type of alien to be part of your chronicle.
As for the reaction... I imagine it'd be something similar to a ToJ scenario. Remember when Zapathasura awakened and kindred, kuei jin, garou and the Technocracy all fought him together, then the Union triple nuked everything and used a satellite solar beam? Pretty much something like that but on crack and steroids. I'm talking "the Etherites bring out their armies Mazinger Z and Megazords, Fallen create spaceships that fire mini-nukes from machine guns, Changelings flood enemy motherships with lava" kind of batshit.
The aftermath of a massive invasion would be interesting (assuming "Earth" wins), specially if all the splats reveal themselves by working together. Either everyone becomes openly hostile again, except now there's no "masquerade or equivalent" OR a massive, world-spanning Paradox backlash happens and the whole event gets Vargo'd, returning to a sort of status quo.

I don't understand the myriad of morality subsystems in V5 is it okay to just abstract humanity to just "do something evil you lose humanity, do something good you gain it?"

>>96553761
>>96553546
This is another thing the Void Engineers from the Technocracy tend to deal with, they fight aliens with like actual fucking space marines.

Even if you hate the Technocracy the VE are pretty based. They somehow know everything about the umbra, vampires, etc too. They should be running shit in the technocracy.

On the one hand I get that Void Engineers are the good guys tee em and I even see why and how they’re the good guys who have held onto their roots unlike the rest of the Technocracy. On the other hand I can’t help but not look kind of callously at that and them being the designed “good guys” writers person the evil faction. Cause they always have that one subsection in any splat that’s the designated good guys tee em even for vampires and demons and true fae and lions and tigers and bears oh my.

>>96553763
It’s meant to aid in roleplaying. The point is to make it less transactional.
>I killed an innocent person on the subway
>I also donated the money I took from his wallet to a local soup kitchen
>humanity score: -1, +1

To get your humanity back, your character has to feel remorseful and go through a lot of effort to make things right.

>>96553763
>I don't understand the myriad of morality subsystems in V5
It is there to prevent people from playing supernatural superheroes/villains and completely ignoring the tone and theme the game is attempting to portray.
Also, >>96554038.

>>96553546
In most cases, they do the same shit and then get a supernatural curveball.

>>96553986
It's because they deal with stuff off on Earth. The main issue with the Technocracy on Earth is that management is in the umbra (space) and has delusional ideas about what is going on there. They're in like horizon constructs with technology from 2000 years from now and have no clue. Since the VEs focus on stuff they know about they come off a lot better

>>96554038
>>96554063
But what if I want my story to be more action packed, less concerned with idividual morality? Forcing players to roleplay through obtuse mechanics is just a hassle. The whole hunger system encourages you to kill and ultimately it's up to the GM to decide what counts as true redemption to avoid the old giving a beggar tons of money you have in vidya.

I want a game to rolelplay around, not a game that forces me to roleplay a specific way. Which seems to be the issue with V5 I can't quite get past.

>>96554126
>what if I want my story to be more action packed, less concerned with idividual morality
The use chronicles tenants that match that style of play? I'm pretty sure there's at least two sets meant for that kind of game.

>>96553173
>Are your chronicles typically hopeless?
Not explicitly, I am just shit at conveying cosmic horrors as an ST.

>>96554126
You as the story teller can decide if a player’s act constitutes a violation of the setting’s morals and if the player loses humanity.

A game set in a grimy hellhole like Flint, Michigan will have different ethics than one set in Upper Manhattan.

>>96553795
The minor empire of species discovered and enslaved by the Ethereal hivemind should even be routine for them.

Do vampires have body odor?

>>96554374
No, they are the exact opposite of werewolves, who have ALL the odor.

>>96554374
They can smell bad, like grave dirt, dust, stale or rotting blood, etc.
In terms of smelling like a NYC cab driver in August? No. The bacteria that cause those odors cannot live on a corpse. The body is no longer warm enough to keep them alive, nor does the vampire sweat.

>>96553795
Not super familiar with mage but this raises a question for me. Does the knowledge of "space marines" from Warhammer make it easier to create them in the consensus? Or if you wanted to make a terminator would it work better if you made it look like Arnold?

>>96554383
IIRC this is actually mentioned in a I think Red Talons book? the lack or odour is what makes Gangrel in wolf form very obvious to werewolves

>>96554374
There are contradictory accounts on it, but I believe it makes more sense for them to sweat blood or nothing at all depending on their humanity.

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How would you do him as an antagonist?

>>96554464
Lost Boy or Cheiron Group Hunter would make the most sense to translate venom, besides that you could write him as a Slasher.

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>>96554126
Then do so? Like, guys, it feels like fuckers in reddit and some people here never actually read Storyteller's guides.
The ST is the ultimate determiner, you can play it as action packed as you want or as personal horror drama you want.
>>96554403
Yes, there is a reason why Cyborgs, HITMarks and Man in Black is popular among The Technocracy. They can function even in zones where Rationality and Science gives way to Legends and Mysticism without being vulgar. Because they are just as mystic and legendary as those who dwell there.

>>96554464
slasher for cofd and independent ghoul crime boss for wod

>>96554464
Put by Pentex in hamburgers.

>>96553763
>is it okay to just abstract humanity to just "do something evil you lose humanity, do something good you gain it?"

As long as you aren't being super cheap about it, yeah. Honestly I think that might be the best way to handle Humanity, I never like random chance getting in the way of character work. I trust my players to roleplay, I don't know why someone would play with someone who is playing an evil character but tries to scam out high humanity for mechanical benefits.

>>96554126
>Which seems to be the issue with V5 I can't quite get past.

Why are you even considering V5 if you don't like anything about it? Because I have a lot of the same issues with it that you do. My solution is to not play V5.

>>96554374
They don't have a body odor since vampires don't sweat, but it still depends on their hygiene. Most Nosferatus and Gangrels probably smell. Samedi problably have a distinct corpse smell. But others like Ventrues and Toreadors probably wash themselves each night and use perfumes.

>>96554840
Depending on how you structure your story, Humanity is a fun mechanism. Can be a fun mechanism.
It works better around younger, high-generation kindred, which is what V5 is centered around.
For that matter, if you’re playing an action heavy game or a big metaplot-y game, it’s now kind of a useless distraction. At that point, I’d be inclined to just leave everyone’s Humanity where it is and trust them to not go completely off the deep end.

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Vampirebros, don't look.

>>96554890
>For that matter, if you’re playing an action heavy game or a big metaplot-y game, it’s now kind of a useless distraction. At that point, I’d be inclined to just leave everyone’s Humanity where it is and trust them to not go completely off the deep end.
It is a distraction in every non feeding focused game.

>>96554900
I disagree. In a lot of social games, it matters a great deal. In investigation style stories, it matters.
There’s plenty of things a person can do to harm a mortal without feeding on them.
>tell me where Nutcase Joey is or I will pull the arms off your young child!
As a storyteller, if my player suggested such a thing, I’d have to make sure they were bluffing.

>>96554890
See, I think humanity is great conceptually. In fact, I do not think it should be something for the youngsters only. I think the slow, centuries long battle to maintain your humanity is a very cool concept that few games actually explore due to very few games actually doing very long timeskips. I'd go so far as to say I probably wouldn't enjoy a game where everyone's on a path and we're just playing characters that act like the platonic ideal of D&D murderhobos.

My issue is that I do not like the implementation of Humanity in practice. The hierarchy of sins are vague and reflect a broad morality more than they do anything particularly human. It's why I hate Paths so much, they're not actually inhuman at all, which only undermines Humanity as a system further. V5's chronicle tenets are an over-correction imo, as now you're just setting a subjective morality standard for the chronicle rather than using a fixed objective one. I understand it can be very hard to practically define what makes someone human, even if you can intuitively tell in practice.

That and I do have an issue with dice stepping into character work. My group often deals in auto-loss and exp-free gain, saving the rolls for the gray areas that are hard to call. If you're playing with a guy who views everything as something to minmax and abuse, you have a foundational player issue, no mechanics can fix that.

TL;DR: I like Humanity conceptually but hate it in practice. I'm not even sure if you could make Humanity mechanics that I would find satisfactory.

>>96554900
>>96554937
I think it depends on how many humans the PCs interact with over the course of the story.
I generally don’t write a lot of non-vampire NPCs because vampire populations simply aren’t that large.
The greater Boston area, where my stories are usually set, is around five million people, meaning it has about fifty vampires if you go by the 1:100,000 rule of thumb.

Of those fifty vampires, four of them are my PCs, and the remaining forty-six don’t want anything to do with them. They have their own things going and there better be a very good reason that these four retards need to talk to an older, lower gen kindred.

>>96555019
> I like Humanity conceptually but hate it in practice. I'm not even sure if you could make Humanity mechanics that I would find satisfactory.
Same. The effects of low versus high Humanity are fine. I do kind of like the Stains system. You really have to know your players and their characters extremely well to make it work in a game.

But then, this has kind of been a problem for 30 years and the “solution” has always been “figure something out with your ST.”

>>96554846
It's the newest edition with the most VTT support. Running V20 seems like a bit of a hassle when V5 has Roll 20 support.

>>96555019
>I understand it can be very hard to practically define what makes someone human, even if you can intuitively tell in practice.
Maybe I’ve always read it wrong, but I’ve always thought about it as giving in to the Beast.
If you do something that is immoral, but is well-reasoned based on the circumstances, that’s not going to cost you Humanity.
If you give in to the Beast and act on its drives to feed, destroy and dominate, that’s pulls you further from your Humanity.

I don’t know of a real way to formalizethat system, though, it would have to be roleplayed.

>>96555069
Gonna be honest anon that just comes off as lazy to me. Ask yourself which you care more about. Playing a game you don't hate mechanically, or taking the path of least resistance.

>>96555058
>But then, this has kind of been a problem for 30 years and the “solution” has always been “figure something out with your ST.”
Amen.

>>96555094
In theory, yeah that's a decent metric to use.
>I don’t know of a real way to formalizethat system, though, it would have to be roleplayed.
Yeah, and that's the annoying thing. You can pull it off if you know what you're doing, have a good ST, and the group is all on the same page. But codifying it mechanically? Very difficult.

>>96555096
I've been reading both V20 and V5 books. Both have pros and cons. If one is easier to run for my group I'm gonna choose that, even if I dislike some of it's mechanics.

Nigger I'm not setting up some custom foundry module so I can play a 14 year old game when I haven't even tried the more accessible newer system.

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Stat them.

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>>96550883
>>96550912
>“actually science is magic too”,

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>>96555591
Add that to the list of Technocracy fairytales.

>>96555591
Anon is only halfway there. The next step is to realize that just as those other guys didn't need to make up shit to have self worth, anon didn't need to learn about his family to feel self worth. You don't need to have awesome ancestry and you don't need to make one up either.

>>96555872
Okay, so what should he look up to for inspiration to drive himself to improve his life or keep going in spite of being in a terrible situation?

>>96555907
Look to any other human who he admires, the ancestry doesn't matter in the slightest. Why does that person need to be like you in order for your to believe you can accomplish similar things?
Then one more step after that is understanding you only need to look at yourself. Everything else is external actors and events outside of your control. You cannot control what happens to you, or what other people do. But you can control your decisions and actions, and those will influence what happens to you and what other people do.
If you want to go full buddhist there's another step of ego death after that, but I don't fully agree with that one.

>>96556011
>ancestry doesn't matter in the slightest
Hairy brown hands typed this post.

>>96556048
hairy brown people are often the ones who care about ancestry the most

>>96555628
>>96555591
Modern science is canonically equivalent to hedge magic and sorcery. You used to be able to do "magic" even if you weren't awakened because the consensus was more mystical. The Technocracy controls the current consensus and slowly rolls out various forms of scientific advancements to the masses according to their Timetable, adding them to the consensus over time. So when you use a smartphone you are basically doing the equivalent of older non-awakened magic users using a crystal ball.

Their control of the consensus isn't perfect though, sometimes things slip through. The Society of Ether wants to exploit them allowing the uncertainty principle in to reintroduce ether or something equivalent to it

>>96554409
I think the most obvious thing to notice missing would be that kindred wouldn't even have a smell of salt to their skin. If you were paying attention, that must be as uncanny in one second as anything a Terminator or Indrid Cold ever did.

>>96556078
Perhaps. The most ethnocentric people in the world rule it with an iron fist, they rule it to the point you can't even mention them out loud without getting shot through the throat in broad daylight with thousands of witnesses.

>>96556147
The problem with a lot of the Etherites is how what they want has been buried far too long to be a viable salvage within the Technocratic adjacent consensus.
Ether being the biggest example because to adapt it to a modern setting it would be so different from the initial concept it would have none of the desired traits.

>>96556224
Kek if only that was the case.

>>96555058
>But then, this has kind of been a problem for 30 years and the “solution” has always been “figure something out with your ST.”
Yeah, for the most part the base rules are not doing what they are supposed to. If the mechanics are dogshit enough, people should ask the point of them being there in the first place.

>>96555069
What the fuck do you need a VTT for a world of darkness game anyway? Majority of the games are players having conversations about in-universe politics. Good to know your character is standing to the left in this convo?

>>96556337
>What the fuck do you need a VTT for a world of darkness game anyway?
Automating dice rolls because lazy.

Speaking of amenti, what are the best mummy spells?

>>96556357
You could just use the discord WOD dicebot.

>>96556422
Yes.

>>96556412
you either go stacking amulets and alchemy or you play a supernatural stalker trying to get everyone's true names without being caught

celestial sounds impressive but the super high aoe is most often not worth it. like what's the point of making it rain globally or destroying a city at the cost of your immortal life? burning vampires with sunlight is however nice if you have to fight the followers of set a lot

effige could be nice, but only if you have a node for sehkem otherwise they are too much of a mana sink

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>>96556224
Whoa there Mr. Grayzone, cool it with the anti-accountant remarks.

>>96553986
>Void Engineers
>good guys
never ask a void engineer what they were doing between the 15th and 20th century

>>96556593
Justifiable all the way up to gaping the Avatar Storm to use as a defensive wall.

>>96553986
Cult of Ecstasy are the good guys except for some assholes.

>>96556632
They want a good time, not a long time.

>>96556678
both
they invented a bed that allows them to have sex for hours in the span of seconds in real time

>>96556737
>in real time
“Real” time is just, like, an illusion, dude. *Drops another acid blotter*

>>96556678
Time is literally their specialty.

>>96556632
>Cult of Ecstasy are the good guys except for some assholes.
Sure, just don't ask them what those funny candies they take to nightclubs and college sororities are.

>>96556791
What's the high ass drug druid gonna do if I pop a Za Warudo on his ass? Smoke some weed? In stopped time? Activate a parallel universe where he popped 50 benzos and a menthol cig that makes him immune to time stops? In those nine seconds of stopped time that methead is my BITCH. Real time may be an illusion but MY time sure isn't.

The Technocracy isn't really one thing, that's more of a Tradition way of viewing it. It's just as divided as the clans in the Carmilla or the traditions themselves. In The Guide To the Technocracy it talks about this a lot, basically suggesting that one of the ways to run a Technocracy chronicle is your characters trying to deal with some of the problems in the organization, like how Special Projects was infiltrated by nephandi and agents of the Wyrm.

1/3 naive do gooders
1/3 checked out archmages and middle managers who don't give a fuck
1/3 more....problematic elements of various kinds

>>96556891
They can just use the adrenaline of battle to literally undo all damage done to them. They also already knew the encounter was going to happen and don't show up. Or they swap their place in time with a napalm bomb that ends up where they would've been.

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reminder the Syndicate is pro-sexual harassment

>>96557241
how does that work? do they organise conference on rape?

>>96557257
the official stance is that they work so hard and do so much for humanity that they deserve to grope their workers

>>96554744
Speaking of, did drawfag finish his O'Tooley's piece?

>>96557400
I see, they slap asses instead of handshakes

>>96557062
Obviously, any bureaucracy should be viewed as a kind of demon that has perversely incentivized itself away from original objectives and focused on securing its own existence. Arguments are just about who had the best intentions.

>>96557257
>how does that work?
It probably goes something along the lines of
>Girl goes to Syndicate HR
>Explains the she was raped by another Technocrat
>Gets mind wiped for the sake of department morale
>The guy who raped her does it again because there's no accountability or punishment

>>96557475
>Control notices that the gender imbalance on a horizon construct is leading to a 20% loss of efficiency
>Tom gets brainwashed into thinking he is trans and is made into Tiffany using hyperscience, then conditioned to believe she wants to dress like a tramp
>efficiency rises

>>96557517
That's what happens when the manager has a MtF bimbofication fetish.

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>>96557517
If the Technocracy wants, they could give every Technocrat a clone girlfriend and it probably wouldn't even make a difference in the budget.
Hell, if Consructs can pool up money to get Cybertooth Tigers, they should also do it for sexy clones.

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Glad the Ascension War ended before it reached this level of buffoonery. Thanks Technocracy!

>>96557602
That was just the average skirmish in Asia prior to the Technocracy.

>>96557475
really putting the D in WoD

>>96557475
He would probably get mind wiped too.

>>96557602
How is nowadays any different? Have you not seen any Gaza or Ukraine videos?

>>96557802
He would get promoted for rooting out members who couldn't handle the hustle.

>>96557475
>fund Nephandi
>rape women
>teach people that greed is good
>invent new ways to turn wageslavery into a humiliation ritual and extract more quintessence from wagecucks
It's possible they are evil.

>unironic Technocracy stans are in the thread right now
fucking hell

>>96558127
Couldn't be me. I think linear time isn't compatible with living beings and I'm also a big boobie Toreador's sex slave.

>>96557241
>>96557257
>The Syndicate when rape and sexual harassment is up 12.7% this quarter
https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-y1N29vH2Y
This corporate front construct has definitely not been infiltrated by Pentex

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Modern mummies don't even attempt to have a Masquerade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum#Mummification

Reality deviants are children who believe they have the RIGHT to control reality to become a pony who isn't subject to linear time even if it means billions of other people will lead lives of horror and suffering

That is why they have to be....adjusted

Oh my f***ing Ra! The cults in Mummy: the Cursed are f***ing PYRAMID schemes! I bet the writers smirked smugly when they thought of that.

>>96558422
Time is for fags. It should be based on vibes. If everyone else stops imposing retard time on us then people will be fine. You can get the amount of sleep you need. Your orgasm lasts as long as you need it to. You can relive moments. Sounds way more awesome than the wagecage.

>>96558441
you can even force the Antediluvians back to bed
>Nope, back in the coffin you old fart, the stars aren't right yet. No, I don't care that you can feel your bloodline dying in droves and signaling you to awaken. Look at the clock dumbass, go back to bed

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>>96558441 >>96558449
Agreed.

There any books cofd or owod that have stats for mechs?

>>96553173
>>96558346
>>96558471
Be honest bros, which tem-akh would seek you out to be saved?
>Kher-minu bond to people who were self-destructive or cared little for their own safety in their first life
>Khri-Habi bond to people who in life were ruled by instinct, habit or dogma rather than thinking for themselves
>Mesektet bond to people who lied, cheated, screwed people over for their own gain in their first life
>Sakhmu bond to people who didn’t appreciate art or the beauty life had to offer while in their first life (Autumn people, NPC, etc.)
>Sefekhi bond to people who were timid, unassertive, restrained, or lacked drive in their first

>>96558822
Nockers have stats for them

>>96558907
>>Mesektet bond to people who lied, cheated, screwed people over for their own gain in their first life
This one because the world is a terrible place that must be fixed.

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The Technocracy are the good guys btw. Law=good, chaos=Bad

>>96558471
Why again did they have to issue unc a passport?

>>96559023
Typical Fr*nch behavior.
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/03/the-passport-of-ramesses-ii/126812

>>96559044
I'm glad they're gone now

>>96558907
I always liked the Sakhmu.
Artist splat but without the usual pretension. Functional proficiencies handled by the pre-ressurrection background. Suddenly gains social skills, talent, and a rockstar aura. Gets a built-in weirdness magnet. Can make a bunch of Effigy guardians. I forget what their innate was but it was probably neat.

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>>96559044
>especially about pigmentation: Ramses II was a ginger-haired ‘cymnotriche leucoderma'” (meaning he was a fair-skinned person with wavy ginger hair).

>>96553173
Has anyone uploaded Deviant: The Renegades?
I cant find it in the mediafire.

>>96558907
Sefekhi, definitely. I’ve always had a terminal lack of drive and ambition, money can’t rouse any fire within me and I don’t have any particular dreams. Although from what I recall Segekhi mummies get kinda fucked over, but that would be my luck

>>96559555
They get mutilated as part of the process. Not sure if it's full castration but basically sex was off the table.
There's the Udja-sen as the unaligned splat where the mummy soul gets stretched over two flaws. Maybe if the Shadow gets stretched they don't have to do the other nasty stuff.

>>96559750
>Not sure if it's full castration but basically sex was off the table.
Net Neutral, then.

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>>96553173
Are W5 werewolves still hungry for willpower if you want to do anything in Crinos from?

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>>96559001
>The Technocracy are the good guys btw. Law=good, chaos=Bad
cute, anon. cute.

>>96560338
>yes, we make pacts with demons but you see we're only PRETENDING, and we're actually the ones in charge

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>>96558113
Bro, without them NWO would turn us into actual slaves. They are the ones balancing the Technocracy's political compass against NWO.

>>96560364
>NWO wants to enslave everyone
>Iteration X wants to turn everyone into hyperefficent drones
>Progenitors wants to turn everyone into perfect clones
>Syndicate wants to turn everyone into wageslaves
>Void Engineers don't care what happens to normies at all

I am starting to think the Technocracy might not necessarily be the good guys

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>>96560400
I am starting to think the Technocracy might be the good guys.

>>96560336
W5 werewolves are still hungry for willpower if they want to do anything at all, including Crinos form.

>Mages like to brag about how powerful they are
>You can defeat them by calling them gay retards and telling them to stop chatting shit

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>>96560400
>tf you spend all day fighting eldritch abominations only to have some Tradition hippie say you don’t care about normies

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Akshually science is magic angle of Technocracy is retarded and Virtual Adepts do the technomage thing better

>>96560727
And if they weren't so busy kneecapping the world's magic and keeping it all to themselves it would be a lot easier to fight those eldritch horrors, but we all know which one is more important to them.

>>96560778
>Technocrats
Reality is fundamentally malleable and some entities can warp this beyond recognition. Paradox is a very real fundamental force which endangers everyone when reality is so thoroughly abused. By discovering how this works we can move it from simple and vulgar “magic” which endangers everyone to tried and true tested Science everyone can use and benefit from.


>Virtual Adepts
Reality isn’t real so you can actually do whatever. We live in the matrix. Also my dad sucks he was a jerk and made me do my useless homework that didn’t teach me anything. I’m going to build a false reality inside this false reality to escape this false reality.

>>96560835
>technocracy: when are you going to get a job and move out
>virtual adepts: I can’t believe they censored Brazilian Miku’s breasts, I just wanted to play video games, billions must die

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I forgot what a silly ass cover Void Engineers got. Easily the best Technocracy has to offer.

>>96557906
With that kind of war the way you die is a lot more standard.

Besides chains what are other symbols of slavery that would make for a recognizable tattoo?

>>96561163
Ships, scars and price tags?

>>96558822
I swear I remember seeing a question like this a month or two ago and somebody gave an answer but now I feel like I'm going crazy because I spent an hour looking for it in the archives and didn't find it

>>96558822
book of weaver for mechs, iteration X for power armor

>The Virtual Adept babe has a QR tattoo that leads to her OnlyFans

>>96553715
>Aliens known to be from Mars
>Garou go to Nerigal's Aetherial domain the day of
>Are already there to start kicking over Cydonia

Mage does something similar, but who knows if anyone is going to the right Mars...

Has there been any official or unofficially-written powers (whether in Masquerade or Requiem) to disguise diablerie from Auspex?

>>96561459
there's a merit for that in VtM

>>96553546
WoD Earth might be the most fucked up place to try to invade in fiction. You can't even comprehend the things that would come out to stop you before the invasion begins. The Camarilla, Anarchs, Sabbat, Garou Nation, Traditions, Technocracy, Marauders, Hunters, Fae, Demons, countless Spirits and more all being united to fight you means you do not exist yesterday. Earth is being attacked by planet-busting things every day but nothing happens because of Consensus. It's literally preventing Eldritch space gods from entering.

>>96560400
Correct. Traditions need to win so we can live in a sci-fantasy fuckfest where you can just walk to a place with better laws of physics. And Toreadors being free to have sex with Ecstatics.

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>>96561391
Mars has the Diosstep, basically the biggest chantry of the Tradition. Though the actual battlegrounds are in Jupiter and Saturn for the Traditions and the Technocracy.
>>96561459
Tons of them, most based on Obfuscate.

Humans are actually the scariest monsters in World of Darkness. The consensus doesn't shape everything in reality, some things exist outside of it, but it can curbstomp everything else. We are like the Orks in 40k if the WAAUGGH could warp reality with godlike strength.

>>96561659
This is why they shouldn't have dropped the Exalted connection. My head canon is that humans are basically all exalted now, the exaltation manifesting as an avatar. Exaltations have continued to grow in strength over time and are now the most powerful thing that exists. Humans have basically completely defeated the wyld but have no idea what they did.

How would you react if you woke up one day and realized that you've been embraced and you're a gen 6 vamp now, except you are a Baali?

>>96561989
fuck

>>96561989
Maybe I can still go to Heaven for removing a 5th generation Baali.

>>96561381
>Virutal Adept degen uses the Digital Web/digital-magic to finally fuck his waifu

>one week left for my MtAw1e game
Gosh I'm so nervous. I hope everything goes well. This week me and players are finishing the Sanctum map. This excites me a lot and I hope they enjoy the puzzles and rewards I created for them when exploring the abandoned mansion.

>>96560847
I love this cover so fucking much. My headcanon is that this big ass flying laser death cannon is the one used for striking [Ravnos] e this girl was the one to push the button.

>>96555628
Honestly that sounds more like Pentex bs, you just need to add a “kick every magical critter you see” to make it obvious

>>96559523
r3br@nd
CoD_Trove

>>96562269
Have fun running your game, anon

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>be an elder Garou
>visit another sept to see how things are going there
>see this
wat do

>>96562346
Gaians are the worst

>>96562346
Red Talons were right.

>>96562346
We need to burn down bazaars and fair markets so bone gnawers can stop buying clothes.

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>>96562346
The only Sims game that had scary werewolves was the first one, where it's purely cosmetic
In all the rest they're much more cartoonish but that's the way whole franchise took

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>>96562482
>bone gnawers
>buying things

>>96560727
anon the Technocracy doesn't fight shit anymore. They waste all their time infighting over how to rule over the easily controlled masses. That's why every splat in the OWoD has its own special nightmare monster species they have to hunt and terminate, because the Technocracy is fucking useless at the goal they claim is their mission

Authentic Nictuku are turned as children, selecting themselves from the funny-looking kids who snuck out after dark to torture animals throughout history. All others are Nosferatu diablerists affecting airs.

>>96562863
sounds more interesting than the "super pretty people who are mad that they are slowly turning fugly" from the dav20 books

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>>96562809
Uhuh, I am sure they are useless

>>96563194
>all that firepower, deployed against other Technocrats and to destroy Mages that don't conform

The Technocracy in umbra/space: the coolest shit you've ever heard of

The Technocracy on Earth: middle mangers that send you to reality jail for having sex

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Wait until you learn about what Threat Null is (the Void Engineers are actually hiding this from the other conventions)

>The truth behind the matter is that the entities that comprise Threat Null claim to be part of the Technocratic Union. To the horror of the first Voidships that had managed to breach the storm, the higher ranks of the Union that had been in personal Horizon Realms when the Dimensional Anomaly began had been twisted and perverted by Void Adaptation, turning them into half-spiritual creatures themselves. They now seek to inflict their particular ideals of "perfection" upon the Consensus, in a horrible mockery of the Union's original goal. Threat Null is still capable of activating and harnessing the Social Conditioning that every Technocrat undergoes when they join the Union. For this reason, the Void Engineers that fight Threat Null have found a way to un-condition themselves, but fear what harm even one Threat Null member might cause when they reach Earth. Threat Null seemingly operates under orders from Control, or an entity posing as Control, that classifies those left on Earth as "rogue agents".

>To date, the Void Engineers have found four groups that corresponded to four Conventions:

>Autopolitans, a mockery of Iteration X, the Autopolitans act as servants for the Computer on Autochthonia, their physical forms transformed into a perfect blend of organic and artificial natures.

>Agents, an aberrant of the N.W.O, the Agents infiltrate any organization or hierarchy and bring it down from within, serving what they refer to as the "Agency".

>Transhumanity, parodies of the Progenitors, Transhumanity offers biological perfection in exchange for becoming part of a singular Hive-mind.

>Residents, corruptions of the Syndicate, that insert themselves into spiritual courts and lead them into "bush wars" against each other.

>>96563287
>hey guys there's a group of mysterious entities that are super evil and have perverted our ideals as the good guy technocracy
>their goals? literally the same as our goals

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>>96559044
>>96559514
>Also that “in ancient Egypt people with red hair were associated with the deity Set, the slayer of Osiris, and the name of Ramesses II’s father, Seti I, means “follower of Seth” said Cecald

OSIRISFAGS BTFO, IM GLAD YOU GOT WRITTEN OFF THE SETTING YOU BALD FUCKS

>>96561654
>The Mars with the Mage chantry

That can't be the right one. It's in some kind of different Umbral Realm that doesn't touch physical space like the Aetherial Realm does.

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>>96563660
Nah, even outside of Doisstep, they have terraformed colonies on Mars's Penumbra.

I have a mechanical question about VtR, specifically 2e. Wanna make sure I understand how a power works.

So the first dot of Majesty, Awe, is not rolled for nor against. However, specifically vampires can defend against it with their predatory aura. The power states that if the vampire trying to fortify themselves succeeds, they are quote "Unaffected by Awe".

However, almost every other dot of the Majesty discipline required the victim to be Awed to work. Dot 2 requires Awe, Dot 4 requires Dot 2. Am I correct in assuming that if someone is "unaffected by awe", you can't attempt any Majesty power that uses Awe as a prerequisite against them? Because if so, that seems like a very easy way to shut down an entire discipline.

>>96560400
Void Engineers do care, they're the only ones with a functioning moral compass and they're too busy dealing with space monsters and dimensional anomalies to rein in the power-mad evil lunatics on earth

>>96563981
>Am I correct in assuming that if someone is "unaffected by awe", you can't attempt any Majesty power that uses Awe as a prerequisite against them?
That's correct. Pretty much all social Disciplines give other vamps a way or a roll to resist it because being able to socially steamroll your way through clan politics kind of ruins the whole game. You can still attempt it, but they have ways to resist. On the bright side, you don't have to waste Vitae on activating higher dot powers of the Discipline if the Awe attempt fails.

>>96564281
I see, thanks for the confirmation. Though I don't believe Dominate has an equivalent failure point. (since Awe is 2 part dice pool vs. 2 part dice pool compared to everything else's 3 part vs. 2 part). There isn't any situational immunity ala VtM's generation clause.

>>96562269
Why the ever loving fuck would you play awakening 1e over 2e?

Oh hey Bloodlines 2 undid the stupid DLC clan bullshit. All base game now from the most recent trailer.

>>96564521
It still won't be good shill anon

>>96564341
Because I own the first edition and I'm too cheap to get the second.

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Can love bloom on the battlefield?

>>96564546
So?

>>96564606
That would be a lot of hatefucking

>>96564721
What they have is beautiful. The only hate is everyone else around them seething.

>>96564341
>>96564560
To be honest, except some parts of the mechanical updates, like rituals no longer allowing you to accumulate excessive amount of successes and parts of the yantra system, there's actually very little of worth in 2e Awakening over 1e.

Besides every book after the core gets worse and worse in 2e, culminating in the garbage that is Tome of the Pentacle.

Tl,dr:
If you wanna buy anything from 2e, just get the corebook for the updated post-GMC mechanics, and then just adapt the 1e materials. Nameless and Accursed is a maybe useful.

>>96563426
What is osiris even about? I read their entry in the v20 book but I still don't quite get them and how they fit into vampire as a whole besides being a way out of the curse of cain I guess?

>>96564843
They're a weird atavism. Technically they were the first stab at "good boy vampires" from way back in Hunters Hunted, the old ass first book on Hunters. They were made somewhat redundant by the Salubri and also, being Egyptian, they were joined at the hip to the Followers of Set. "They're all supposed to be long dead but here's stats if you wanna ignore that" is the line V20 went with, they did the same for other dead bloodlines like Lamia and Lhiannan.

>>96564843
What this anon said >>96565243 , and also Mummy was like the second or third splat ever made and was also a Vampire supplement, so naturally Osiris was also embraced.

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Homage to you, Osiris, Lord of eternity, King of the gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, you being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy.

what does the prime sphere do, or what can you do with it? it seems kind of vague

>>96565713
Main thing you can do with it is conjure things. In order to create something from nothing, you need Prime. Without it, all you can do is move or change things. It's also the metamagic sphere, so manipulating anything directly related to magic itself like quintessence, avatars, patterns, paradox, etc. will probably use Prime. It can also make damage aggravated, for a more mechanical one. Usually it's not a main focus, more of a support sphere that makes all your other stuff better.

>>96562290
Maybe I am retarded but i cant get it still

>>96566106
Nta, you might be, but I will spoon feed you.
https://limewire.com/d/YsndO#xXGHYMm4O8

>>96564824
Reach by itself makes 2e a billion times better than 1e let alone the changes to vulgar and subtle

>>96566318
i dont trust limewire links desu. But its ok I found a copy of it.
For some reason on the original link. Adding the dot between r3br@nd
and Trove didnt make the link word. idk what I did wrong when it worked for others.

>>96566620
It's a .ly domain

I miss those old "living world" WoD games from like 20 years ago. Remember the "Moderated Chats" that ran on fucking DigiChat?

>>96567305
Just join a Discord PbP, same deal, basically.

>>96567344
Where can you even find these?

Chronicles of Fagness

>>96567445
it's incredible how the quality of the game line collapsed into a black hole of dogshit the moment the original designers and writers moved on

>>96567420
Just go on any popular/official WoD/CofD Discord server and look in the LFG channels. Just be prepared for all of your typical verbose attention-seeking clique-loving free-form roleplayer behaviour.

>>96567420
They infest the looking for group/players channels of Discord servers for WoD.

50% of them are outright shit, just there to RP all the time without actually doing shit. Imagine SchreckNet thread but way worse.

30% you will be fourth wheel. STs will have their favorite coterie/cabal/pack, some third-wheel longterm players who get lucky and some like you who are there and only actually matter once a year.

The last 20% is decent but usually full of overworked STs that try to give everyone their time to shine.

>>96567489
Phil Brucato and DaveB stayed, and look where it's gotten us.

>>96567606
My experience with WoD "living world" games is that 80% of the "players" hang out in the foyer/OOC channels, rarely play the game even with their clique, and basically never play the game outside of it, and most of their time is being snide to new players and trying to get them banned for objecting to it.

>>96567636
t. not a good enough writer to draw attention and get invited to the cliques

>>96567514
>Just be prepared for all of your typical verbose attention-seeking clique-loving free-form roleplayer behaviour.
Why else would I play the World of Darkness?

>>96567629
The thing with either of them is that as long as they aren't given the reigns as line-devs and there is someone else running things to keep them in-line they can write ok or even good stuff.
When left on their own to run the show you get Mage20, Changing Breeds, the Tremere crap of 2e Awakening and Tome of the Pentacle.

>Sex
>Drugs
>Music
>Dance
>Exercise
>Self-mutilation
>Tantric meditation
>Art
Why wouldn’t anyone want to be an Ecstatic with these as your foci?

>>96568433
Can anyone actually cite a writer that they like? All I ever hear about is Brucato's neopagan magical realm, Brookshaw's mage supremacy power tripping and Achilli's street-level misery porn.

>Make funny candy man guide for new Mage players
>Players were about to be killed game one after picking a fight with a Lasombra
>Fuck me, shouldn't have put her in so early
>Oh right I have a Mage nearby to hand wave it away
>Pulled something out of my ass about him kissing the vamp, blowing bubble gum into her mouth, then her stomach pops
>Players were smart enough to get the hint and fucked off
Now I am working on a full set if candy based magic

>>96568748
They're canonically the most popular tradition among younger mages. Also worth noting that Aleister Crowley and Rasputin (maybe, it's complicated) two of the most famous "real" mages were ecstatics.

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>>96568758
>him kissing the vamp, blowing bubble gum into her mouth, then her stomach pops

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>son of dob

>>96568755
I really like the mood of the early VtM stuff when Rein-Hagen was still an active participant and not just a name that was put on the book for being the guy with the original idea. There's an edge to it, a good edge. It's not overstating the pain of being a vampire, in fact it will acknowledge the upswings, the allure, the stuff that makes it seem so seductive at the onset. Only to hit you with the price, a price so subtle you don't realize it's been paid a long time ago. The early stuff has ancients actively playing parts in the Jyhad, and they're more human than you might think, in fact the VtM 1e core goes out of its way to humanize this Methuselah, showing you her entire unlife, only for her to later ruin some guy's life because he looks like her boyfriend from the bronze age. An action that later leads to her Final Death.

It's moody, it's dark, it's intensely focused on the character and the nature of unlife, but it still has fun with it. There's a grandeur to it that the later attempts at something similar lack, which is why that stuff is often called "misery porn".

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>>96568755
Brucato

>>96568755
If a WoD/CofD book has Ethan Skemp, John Snead, Bill Bridges or Kenneth Hite in the credits than I can trust it to have at least one chapter/section that I will like and actually try to use in my games.

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>>96569099
I really liked John Snead's work in the VtR: Seed n' Feed book.

>>96568835
>>96569099
Book recommendations to get all the good bits?
-t. newfag who got started with v20 and Dark ages.

so the dtf guide mentions that fallen and kindred have never (yet) managed to live together in a city in peace and that the two courts have always so far gone to war on sight

so how do you guys think vampire vs demon warfare would look like? with either sabbat or camarilla vs a newly emerging fallen court

>>96569293
As with most Garou vs. other splat combats, it's likely to be Garou curbstomping the weaklings among the Fallen only to then be curbstomped by the top end Fallen leaders and Earthbound. After the very costly initial bloodbaths in the early battles of such a street war, both sides start to understand what they're dealing with. The Fallen would not want to fight Garou head-on whenever possible once they realize just how dangerous even the weakest Garou is. The Fallen would primarily seek to win via superior tactics since they have a shortage of powerful demons they can deploy into battle, so they would likely seek to use weapons and weaknesses against the Garou the same way Hunters do. In fact, there's a very real chance the Fallen end up recruiting Hunters to their cults to teach them how to fight Garou and as frontline soldiers. The Fallen are all about manipulating people to do this kind of thing for them, if they can. The Garou, meanwhile, will probably circle the wagons and emphasize never being caught unawares or alone; instead they'll try to hunt the Fallen and interrogate their footsoldiers for key intel on their places of power. If the Garou can find out where the Earthbound are hiding, and can force a confrontation of attrition by assaulting that headquarters directly, they have good odds of prevailing over the Fallen in such a city.

>>96569350
>Garou

Nobody mentioned them.

>>96569388
sorry, I apparently have brain prions because I somehow misread vampires as werewolves

>>96569293
>so how do you guys think vampire vs demon warfare would look like?
Largely just stuff like the Camarilla trying to keep their favored Ghoul in office while the demons try to put a favored thrall there instead. Vampires certainly have the advantage of already being deeply embedded into institutions.
For outright warfare? Demons are generally more powerful right out of character creation than Vampires, especially with Lore of Flame Devils exploiting their weakness to fire, or celestials with that one ritual which turns the sun on at night, but Vampires could mass embrace Brujah and just drown demons in numbers. And elders of particular clans can be more physically formidable than all but the most combat minmaxed fallen. One thing that really hurts vampires in this match ups is the demonic immunity to mental tricks, leaving clans like Ventrue effectively useless against them and disciplines like Obfuscate either not working at all or being easily seen through depending on if you count it as mental affecting or illusion.
Neither side really wants that sort of all out conflict, though. It's loud, catching attention from kine and Earthbound, so it's more likely they stay out of each other's lane, occasionally manipulating hunter cells against each other and making other kinds of power plays instead of actively warring the streets.

>>96569287
My short reading list for noobs is usually
>VtM 1e core, entirely just for the vibes and the novelty of seeing how different it was when it first released.
>At least one of the early premade adventures like Alien Hunger or Diablerie: Mexico.
Those are if you want the early VtM vibe stuff.

Midnight Siege is a good book from a more practical, game running stuff, it's a Revised Era book but has a lot of good ideas on how to handle larger scale vampire conflict. I've also heard the Damnation City in VtR is excellent at having pointers at building a city that feels alive, to the point it's worth reading even if you're running VtM.

>>96569293
>so the dtf guide mentions that fallen and kindred have never (yet) managed to live together in a city in peace and that the two courts have always so far gone to war on sight

It's funny when some other splat says shit like this and then you look at the average Vampire book where it's just "A demon? Oh shit you mean the things Infernalists worship? Damn that's some heavy shit. Anyway..." There ain't some sort of long-standing Vampire and Demon war.

>>96569455
because DtF was written after VtM and VtM didn't have to explain how vampires interact with demons escaping from hell, possessing random people, and forming into cults that want to accelerate the biblical apocalypse
oWoD has secret societies in its secret societies in its secret societies, it's both absurd and hilarious

>>96569455
to be fair that's a issue dtf and htr have with all other splats not just vampires and i would argue it's even worse with the later because hunter is mostly about interacting with the other splats

>>96569398
>disciplines like Obfuscate either not working at all or being easily seen through depending on if you count it as mental affecting or illusion.
the st guide covers this vampire "invisibility" is a illusion, but demons need to do a awarness roll with difficulty 7 to 10 depending on the vampire strenght (7 being fledgeline 10 being elder so methuselah might be too powerful to be seen) again the vampire's stealth roll to see through it

so not great for stealth vampire but not very terrible because depending on the build the math might favor even a neonate and certainly favors everything above
dominate and presence are useless against demons and some thralls through, but they can be ghouled and the blood bond overwrites the loyalty to the demon

>Neither side really wants that sort of all out conflict
>so it's more likely they stay out of each other's lane
acording to the same book the demons actually do because the fallen want that same lane! as a infernal court wants all the ressources the undead have because the fallen want nothing short of "Humanity and all it has to offer" so they don't want to play well with other kids

so lucky for them they don't even seem to have found about the technocracy yet

>>96569493
>because DtF was written after VtM
Well yeah, but when DtF (or other splats really) just boldly asserts a dynamic that just doesn't exist in the other splat, it's just absurd. Even though Werewolf adds a bunch of bullshit, it at least sticks to the basic outline of "they're mostly in the countryside, and we usually kill each other on sight" that was laid out in previous books.

The existence of over a dozen secret societies that simultaneously know about and don't know about each other depending on who's writing, and don't interact outside of a handful of designated scenarios is one of the two main reasons I can't take a combined oWoD seriously.

>>96569641
>Well yeah, but when DtF (or other splats really) just boldly asserts a dynamic that just doesn't exist in the other splat, it's just absurd.
DtF is also set chronologically after the time in the OWoD setting that VtM is set in. The vast majority of the Fallen only started escaping Hell very recently, as in the last couple of years, and VtM is a snapshot of the OWoD world prior to the great escape

>>96569641
But that's the point. There's so many different interpretations and unreliable narrators and versions of the truth that you can choose multiple contradictory directions for your chronicle and make the confusion a part of the experience. By the end of every chronicle, the players should always feel like they're schizophrenic and every NPC should be treating the characters like they are.

>>96568748
Because they are stupid or they merely want to play with an inferior paradigm for fun. The one and only downside of being an Ecstatic is a Toreador will glomp you and she won't be able to stop sucking.

>>96569706
I find the unreliable narrator justification rather weak. Mostly because it acts as if this was a masterfully planned thing designed to create confusion and not a potential silver lining to the lack of foresight put into cross-splat. I do not believe that was "the point", and if customization was the goal then the statement "by the end of every chronicle, players should" is not a sentence that should be involved at all.

There's layers of conspiracies and contradictory statements, and then there's what a combined oWoD has going on. Which just blows my suspension of disbelief out of the water. Thanks, but no thanks.

>>96569641
Because these secret societies have their own niches and their own struggles that they stay away from each other. Traditions can fight the Camarilla, but they're more concerned with Mage enemies and don't want to unnecessarily spread themselves thin. The Camarilla is busy with the Sabbat. There isn't enough time in the world to know everything that's happening around you and it's not feasible to get involved in everything. Playing Vampire where Mages are also present is basically the principle of "There is a wizard outside of town." or "There are government black sites with technology decades ahead of the rest of society." and that's that. Combined oWoD is the most entertaining setting I've been a part of. It's a nonstop party that the mundies too busy wagecucking and gooning to be aware of.

I be honest, the whole Combined vs not Combined, contradictions, etc. discussion seems to only matter outside of games with lorefags at best.
I played since, shit, 99? and it never once mattered. Not as a player nor when I was a ST.
Because when WoD as a whole is brought up during a chronicle, ST already does whatever he wants with it, if it gets brought up.

So I don't get why it is so hotly debated topic. Every fucking long living franchise, especially ones that might have different authors, themes and developers for certains parts of the franchise, has this problem. From Marvel to Pathfinder to 40k to Dresden Files to Shadowrun to Harry Potter.

Why isn't Superman there for Batman during the games? It doesn't fucking matter. Maybe there is an intergalactic war and he needs to be in space or maybe he is in the shitter for the duration of Batman's storyline.

>>96570106
Because it's awesome when a group knows the lore and how to implement them. And it makes the world fill more alive. I played in a persistent setting with 50 other people, it was fantastic. You're always kept guessing. I was baffled when I ran into a mummy for the first time. My mage cabal encountered a Marauder who was a Pentex executive's spoiled crazy son. And no one can blow up the world because the combined oWoD setting is amazing at maintaining the status quo and stomping threats.

High effort, high reward.

>>96570191
That's the thing, that is perfectly fine.
What I am saying is, contradictions don't matter, "vagueness" doesn't matter.
Because when it comes to play, ST will be there to decide. Take for example Pentex.

How is the relationship between Pentex and the Technocracy?
A)Similar to Revised, some very high level Syndicate personnel are hiding them from the wider Syndicate and the Technocracy because they don't want to show them they shit the bed.
B)Syndicate has fallen and the Technocracy is soon to follow.
C)The Technocracy is aware of the problem and the Syndicate is currently going through a...reconstruction.
D)Pentex and/or The Technocracy doesn't exist.
E)It doesn't matter for your character at this point and/or he doesn't have any clue.

So there is no need to debate on it too hard. Like all those Zelda timelines. In the end, one of them will be true in your chronicle, determined by your ST.

I don't know what they're trying to tell me about this game other than there are big titty goth girls in it
https://youtu.be/J4DZ0mQFFBU

>>96570439
...I might try it.

>>96570106
>Because when WoD as a whole is brought up during a chronicle, ST already does whatever he wants with it, if it gets brought up.

I actually agree but nobody likes to talk about actual games.

>>96570494
Going off personal experience, nothing that happened in my games were interesting and worth sharing.

>>96570501
I used to post about my games a lot but kept getting fewer and fewer responses so I stopped.

>>96570505
tell me about your latest session chad

>>96562346
Grim.
At least the kindred don't have this kind of problem.
Right?

Has anyone ever set their game in Chicago before?

>>96570596
Sure. We're getting towards the end of a reasonably long historical HtV game, set in 1816, Louisville Kentucky.

The session began with our Lucifuge having to rescue his NPC buddy from being drowned in a bathtub by a demon wearing the skin of a freakishly tall preacher and a non-Lucifuge demon-blooded guy who is in a pact with our primary antagonist, a powerful Inferno Demon known as The Blind Shadow.

After he did with only about... 4L damage on him total, we went around investigating while he was getting medical attention. Learned that the two assailants were looking into the local Asylum. As night fell we went to investigate, one member of the cell knew a person in the Asylum, only to find that the Demon Preacher had let the madmen out and was using a supernatural power to inspire them into a violent, irrational mob. We tried to spare as many as we could but they had already killed at least one orderly. We ended up killing about a dozen when all was said and done, and about a half dozen escaped the Asylum. We destroyed the Demon Preacher, but his master was nowhere to be found, having already absconded with the head doctor of the asylum, most likely to sacrifice him on the coming new moon, tomorrow night.

Next session we'll be in a race to find and kill him and rescue the doctor.

>>96570743
Yeah whenever I run DtF I always have the first session start off in a dream sequence of the PCs in Hell and escaping to the human world.

>>96570752
It's been a very long time since I read HtV, so a lot of the terminology in your post is lost on me. But I like the sound of a Hunter game set in the early 19th century. In some ways that must make fighting monsters easier, since it's not too uncommon in this time period that people actually believe that things like demons exist. But this Demon seems to have powers that let him manipulate people, so I guess you can't really rely on raising an armed posse to deal with big uglies like that, either. A shame. That'd be a great use for a character with good social skills and merits.
On the bright side, I expect it won't be too difficult to track down this antagonist quickly, since if he plans to invoke a powerful ritual sacrifice, rumors spread quickly in American towns of this era and nosy neighbors will almost certainly notice a guy buying up all the usual required materials for such rituals. Maybe he exhausts the local supply of wax candles or lamp oil, or he goes to the local butchers and buys an exhorbitant amount of jugs of fresh animal blood. Stuff like that. There'd also already be plenty of folk tales about 'cursed' locations near such towns, optimal areas for the bad guy to perform such a sacrifice. Unless he means to do it in the middle of town, and use the population as extra fuel by brainwashing them? Can't say for sure, but if that's the case finding the ritual will be the easy part, the hard part will be trying to stop it with the whole town possessed and serving him.
Just musing a bit on this stuff, don't mind me.

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So I've been using this module in FoundryVTT that lets you actually edit polygons after drawing them and it's been a boon. I can adjust these mid-game for my Werewolf game set in Philly every time someone captures territory in a fight.

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>>96571145
>axis mundi territory
Based pack

>>96568789
Isn't the point that they get inflated but don't pop into gore

>>96571198
Incidentally they're allied with the PCs, which were dubbed the Allegheny Three when they sacked Kensington Ave & Allegheny Ave in the first session. They're called "Axis Mundi" because the spirits they themselves ally with are part of the "Streetweb" choir, which mixes business with bureaucracy. Think city hall + corpos. Most of the spirit names take on these Latinesque names.

Fairhill Fury are Hispanics and the main rivals of the PCs. Them and Tranq Phantoms work with spirits of crime, poverty, drug addiction, etc. Nasty stuff, but they're still Forsaken.

Allegheny Three are aligning themselves with the choir of Old Friends, which is like an anthro choir; mammals and birds, broadly. The worst they have to play ball with spirit-side are city rats who insist on carte blanche to scavenge the waste humans produce, i.e., their trash.

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>>96571229
No pack allied with spirits of knowledge and similar shit?

>>96571145
>>96571229
Can't wait for the inevitable good ol' fashioned border gore. Keep us posted anon.

Does oWoD Werewolf have this weird Pure shit in it like NWoD Werewolf does? Seems weird that WtF focuses so much on the supernatural equivalent of skinheads when the game splat is seemingly more about the Forsaken playing spirit cops.

>>96571683
Classic Apocalypse has backgrounds for racial purity and enclave harems in core.

>>96571683
Because skinheads are famously known for not causing cops any problems?

>>96571683
WtF partially flipped the WtA tribes to be the antagonists. So the Pure have a bunch of existing lore from Apocalypse and vaster territories and hardcore totem integration whereas the Forsaken are small territory nobodies who have Luna backing them up and whatever weakling spirit they can strong arm for pack blessings.

>>96571783
So it's more like a character-by-character thing than an entire nation of skinheads who somehow get along better than the Forsaken despite being driven entirely by irrational hatred?
>>96571791
Sure, but the Forsaken already have plenty of reasons for packs to fight each other. Specifically setting the Pure tribes apart from the Forsaken as completely irredeemable antagonists feels unnecessary when the Forsaken tribes already despise each other for regular reasons and do all the same horrible shit as the Pure, just less frequently
>>96571792
Damn, really? That's a weird move. WtF must have pissed off some WtA players to see their favorite tribes turned into one-dimensional villains

>>96571871
I guess maybe less skinhead-specific theming, and many more hereditary, militant secret societies in general?

>>96571871
But Forsaken tribes both routinely work together, and have the same basic goal. The Pure don't.

>>96570898
On the terminology, Lucifuge is a conspiracy of Hunters who are descended in part from demons, the party line is it's all Lucifer all the way down but that isn't entirely true. They try to press-gang everyone into the conspiracy or kill them, but some slip through the cracks, like our current immediate threat. The Preacher was a minor demon in service to the demon-blooded guy, who has only called himself "Pride" to us, and "Pride" in turn serves the Blind Shadow, a very powerful demon who has been the overarching antagonist of the entire game. We've fought many of his worshipers already.

The period part of the game has been fun, 1816 was specifically chosen as it was the "Year Without A Summer", where America and more severely Europe got hit with the negative weather effects of a volcano eruption halfway across the world. My character is the face, and our cell is a lot bigger than just the PCs, he's been on a recruitment drive all game. So we should have a wide enough drag net to find "Pride" and more importantly, actually stand a good chance at destroying The Blind Shadow afterwards.

>>96571871
Between powergamers (nerfing Crinos), furries (no sex between werewolves or a ghost abortion will kill you), radical rightwingers, and anime fans (restricting sidestepping to keep from turning everything into Ghibli), I guess there were some portions of the fanbase that the dev was just getting tired of. They wanted monstrous werewolves in a street level Silent Hill aesthetic with minimal pvp or fights with other werewolves.

What's the best way to make a Hunter: The Vigil video game? Action RPG where it's all about killing monsters or like the first half of VTMB where you can have different methods in finishing a quest.

>>96572273
>or like the first half of VTMB where you can have different methods in finishing a quest.
This.
Plus fan service and romance options.

>>96572273
Personally I'd go tactics-RPG for the teamwork elements and defeating more powerful foes with guile.

>>96571683
>>96571871
>WtF partially flipped the WtA tribes to be the antagonists.
What this guy said.

Predator Kings = Red Talons
Ivory Claws = Silver Fangs (duh) + Get of Fenris
Fire-Touched = I'm not sure. Stargazers?

But more broadly the Pure are Apocalypse's Garou Nation, with all of their boneheaded decisions and retardedly self-destructive animosity. Meanwhile the Forsaken are an adaptation of the saner groups within the Garou Nation. I suppose the best way to put it is that the werewolves are still embroiled in a species-wide civil war, they just have more defined battle lines.

>>96572193
>spites powergamers, furfags, /pol/tards, and weebs

Besides the street level meme word, sounds like heaven to me.

>>96572273
Xcom, but in 1992 and the base you build out is office space for an occult newspaper that hunts witches on the downlow.

Speaking of hunter, and other cofd splats too, do you guys use the organizations/compacts/orders/whatevers in the books or do you make your own?

>>96572470
You could probably make a mod for OpenXCOM for that but I doubt it'd be popular, OpenXCOM itself really isn't

>>96572536
I'm often a big advocate for homebrew but between the official compacts/conspiracies and backporting a few oWoD hunter groups, pretty much all of my bases are covered as far as organized Hunters are concerned. It's not that I'm against making your own shit up, it's just that so far I haven't had an idea for a group of Hunters that I couldn't do with an official compact/conspiracy. I may play a bit with stuff inside said conspiracy but hey, CofD isn't inundated with a ton of official characters, events and lore that create speedbumps to modifying what already exists.

Although if I do have one complaint, it's that many compacts and conspiracies don't exist before the 1800s, so if I were ever to run Hunter before then, I'd probably have to start making more up since Dark Eras barely has any.

For other CofD lines... if I ever ran CtL I might make up some more eldritch orders.

>>96571871
>>96572393
>>96572356
Put altogether, isn't WtF just W5 with less drama? It hates the same playerbase, was made to "wipe the slate clean" setting-wise, and its devs went to all lengths to enforce their "street level play" fantasy by any means necessary.

>>96573035
Bait used to believable

>>96573035
Yeah, that's part of the problem with WoD5 in general: they try to staple nWoD onto oWoD and its actively at war with itself as a result.

>>96573035
>its devs went to all lengths to enforce their "street level play" fantasy by any means necessary.
>has a book about a world spanning war where you teleport around the place
What did he mean by this?

>>96573035
In a way. While WtF expunged a lot of the WtA stuff that the writers didn't, the writers also made sure to recontextualise things to make sure that the game worked without the removed stuff. They also added a lot of brand new stuff to fill those holes. So while WtF was built using a gutted WtA as a foundation, W5 is simply gutted WtA without anything to fill the gaping wounds left in the setting, except for some uninteresting special snowflake NPCs.

>>96570752
Sounds like you had a trip to discount Arkham Asylum, nice session.
>>96571683
Honestly, WTA is better at that point.
Sure, there are Tribes that put into specific "purities", like Red Talons barely tolerating humid Garou, let alone normal humans, and Silverfangs and Lineage but overall Garou Nation doesn't really give a shit outside of Metis.

And Metis only happens when two Garou bang, which stops really any true "purity" movements.

>>96572356
If you have to make comparisons, the Fire-Touched are the Children of Gaia interpreted in the most negative light possible. A homogenous cult that accepts anyone, only to strip them of any culture or identity that they once had to just make them a part of the collective, with a preference for "pacifistic" and non-lethal conflict resolution, in the form of converting their foes to think like they do.
>>96571871
>completely irredeemable antagonists
That's the Bale Hounds. Unless they went out of their way to make the Pure completely two-dimensional and evil with 2e, they can be willing the cooperate with the Forsaken against the numerous greater threats that plague WtF such as the Maeljin, Idigam and Geryo.
>>96571683
WtF has always given far more love to its enemies than the Forsaken themselves and honestly, the Pure are more interesting than the Forsaken because of it. The Forsaken are just avatars for the players to inhabit so they can beat up this rogues' gallery.

Anyone know what happened to he guy that was working on a magical girl thing in werewolf?

>>96573190
NTA, but probably rape.

>>96573190
If you Princess the Hopeful, the only crossover splat I know they have is with HtV.

>>96573224
Nah it was something else. He was using werewolf as the base. He kept posting updates back in the spring then stopped

>>96573190
Got the doc? I am making a fansplat as well and need as much help as I can get on how to do these things

>>96573266
If I did I wouldn’t be asking here

>>96571792
I remember in Forsaken 1e they had these spirits called the Unihar that were the product of two Werewolves mating. Same-sex Werewolves created these spirits, too. They were extremely formidable spirits of hatred/pain/etc and they existed solely to kill their parents. They were also immune to Rites/Gifts outright.

I'm pretty sure they were written in specifically to discourage furries from playing the game. Incidentally, they removed the Unihar in Forsaken 2e, as being a furry was less taboo at the time of its release.

>>96573582
I'm pretty sure they were written to because they thought they needed a metis analogue and were retconned away when they realised that was stupid as shit.

One thing I find funny about WtF/WtA transition is that Spirits went neutral-to-positive outside those that directly served malevolent entities to being de-facto evil to go along with the Pure being Garou-but-antagonists. It's almost a metaphor for the environmentalism kick the writers were on wearing off.

>>96573599
Hard to say without talking to the authors, or digging up their old posts, but I remember in the mid-2000s Werewolf players were basically rednecks IRL and were very defensive about furry accusations. Now not so much on either count of being rednecks or defensiveness about furry accusations. So my guess on the motivation is informed by that anecdotal experience.

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I am going to say the truth that can no longer be contained.
CtD was the WoD gameline with the most potential, but they squandered a lot of things about it's release and implementation.
Being a creature of living magic walking around trying to spark a light of change and hope in a world of darkness otherwise you'll die is an amazing concept. And reading C20 show how amazing the character options actually are, the Kithain are cool, but the Thallain are well and truly show stoppers, such cool concepts for villains, you can try to play some of them as morally gray, but how long can you last? They need to do horrible things to live, and eventually you'll run out of bad guys to visit horrors upon. Thallain might honestly be my favourite WoD villains. And that's before I even mention the Inanimae, which should have been a core part of the game.

The real tragedies were making the chimerical reality impossible to implement in a practical way, making the whole thing seem pointless, making so many of their innate abilities chimerical, so again, it feels like you're not actually doing anything, and going out of their way to make pre-C20 Changelings purposefully weak, 1e even talks about how they wouldn't stand a chance against most other supernaturals, while C20 hits a fantastic power spot, able to do archamage tier things, but either in short bursts or conditionally.

I feel like if you run chimerical creatures almost like spirits and banes the whole thing gets better, and with a couple of other tweaks, the game is genuinely amazing. You're magical creature in a modern setting with a compulsion that you absolutely need to fulfill and spread, violence for a Redcap for instance, or you are undone. It's an amazing idea.

>>96573612
Spirits aren't evil per se in CofD. The major sticking point is that lesser spirits are basically feral and incapable of thinking anything more complex than "makes my domain grow/doesn't make my domain grow" while mightier spirits usually achieve sapience and can be negotiated with. The flipside of this is that they can be real bastards if they're in no mood to negotiate. Also re: Pure being the Garou Nation reinterpreted keep in mind that the Forsaken are less than a third of the werewolf population, one big reason they weren't wiped out is that they can more or less work together while the Pure are constantly beset with civil wars for the pettiest and most moronic of reasons.

Any tips on how to powergame in V5?

>>96573612
>>96573896
Yeah, a really big deal in WtF is it's still fundamentally rooted in environmentalism. It's just not doing the same sort of thing WtA is where its major parallels are climate change, pollution, and corporate greed. It's more broadly about ecologies and the stability of ecosystems when outside pressures are applied. WtA has the Wyrm as a black and white antagonist and all the Wyrm's servants are bastards. WtF has some direct comparisons to that in the form of its Maeljin and Wounds but those are just a rare bad thing, not the main problem. The main problem here is the balance between the Flesh and Shadow because imbalance can be catastrophic. The material world's state creates spirits to reflect it, and those spirits push on the material world to strengthen those aspects, and if either side of that exerts too much pressure it can cause huge amounts of damage.

A serial killer in the Flesh causes all sorts of negative emotions in the community they terrorise, which creates more of that spirits in the Shadow, and those spirits reinforce those feelings in the Flesh, people are then more likely to act upon those feelings which creates more for the spirits in the Shadow to feed upon, then those spirits dominate their environment and out compete other spirits, which furthers the problem in the Flesh, and on and on and on. You can get these horrible feedback loops where they compound upon each other until the ecosystem barely resembles what it was. Or there is a conflict in the Shadow between two factions and a huge swath of spirits is wiped out and now there are too few water spirits about or whatever and now you've got a major drought in the Flesh, which then changes how things work in the Shadow, and it all spins out from there.

Which is what the Forsaken are for. It's not like the Garou Nation and trying to defeat a singular evil, and they're not about laying down the law, they're trying to cultivate an ecological balance so things don't collapse.

>>96574073
>Which is what the Forsaken are for. It's not like the Garou Nation and trying to defeat a singular evil, and they're not about laying down the law, they're trying to cultivate an ecological balance so things don't collapse.
Funnily enough it's a more mature take on environmentalism, even if Pentex-tier evildoers do exist IRL and are just as grotesquely evil as their tabletop game counterparts.

>>96573887
I don’t like changeling as a system but I love it as an idea. I think it’s more fun to have all that at your fingertips as an ST than to try to actually run Changeling.

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>>96573887
>I feel like if you run chimerical creatures almost like spirits and banes the whole thing gets better
Chimera don't even have to be uniformly unable to do anything to normal people. It's a pretty cheap Rede for them to actually affect non-Fae, the only conditions are that they can't do lasting harm and are quickly forgotten (but low banality mortals recall what happened better). They could, theoretically, still do things like swipe babies out of peoples' arms.

>>96574558
I swear this game has so much potential, if only they had presented chimeras as being an actual real threat from the start. Changeling could have been so much bigger than what it was. Such a shame it feels like they were trying to make it have small foot print on the setting. A bunch of Redcaps spreading violence and brutality country wide because to them it's a necessity is so simple but so impactful.

>>96573060
War Against the Pure involves larger scale play in Forsaken. It might still not whet the appetite of an Apocalypse fan, but it has examples of werewolves getting involved with major battles that spill over into human conflicts, Lunar Crusades, and other genuine clashes with the Pure, and even other shapeshifters (the system for making them first appears here; it was then rather poorly copied for WoD/CofD: Shapeshifters).

>>96574789
I know. That's why I said it has a book that does that.

>>96574229
Nta, while I'm not big into Apocalypse, Pentex and the Wyrm were never my problem with it. I actually think they're good antagonists, just overly focused on at the expense of much else.

>>96574862
>Pentex and the Wyrm were never my problem with it.
Never said otherwise but no problem. I do agree.

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I still on-again, off-again work on Clanbook:Caitiff. Of the ten sample characters I made for it I was never really satisfied with one of them, the False Prophet.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96048842/#96050411

It felt performative. I'm writing a book about Caitiff, so I should have a seer character, right? But it never really "clicked".

Anyway, recently went back to the drawing board and made the Apostate Scholar to replace the False Prophet. Gives the book another Pander to compliment the Graduated Shovelhead, but this one is from the more philosophical side of the Sabbat that does exist, just rarely gets focused on. This one clicked.

(Humanity 6 is definitely high for a Sabbat character, but I'm limited by the technology of my time: V20 character creation means that minimum starting Humanity is 5, and that's only if you tank one of Conscience or Self-Control. Presumably the Humanity will start plummeting once the Chronicle actually starts)

Oh, this character was made with the rule variant for Sabbat characters that exchanges the 5 Background dots at character creation for an extra Discipline dot. All Backgrounds were purchased with Freebie points.

>>96573111
Thanks, it was refreshing to have a fight against a horde of just crazy people, especially when all of our guns are muzzle-loaders. Having guns that are shorter range and a bitch to reload but just as if not more powerful than modern ones has been an interesting experience and it radically changes how combat plays out.

>>96575024
nice work anon
also couldn't you give her a meme sabbat path or something if humanity is such a problem? You don't have to 100% adhere to the character creation specs. Owod writers themselves didn't a few times.

>>96572273
Collecting game and dating sim. Defeat then redeem women from every splat throught the power of hunter dick.

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>>96572536
When I play Awakening I erase the Free Council as an Order and make it more of political position among the moderate/progressives subfactions of the Diamond Orders.
I also use Division Six, but instead of being a poor attempt at a Technocracy joke in Hunter I make make them still Seer-controlled, but remade as SD-6 from the Alias tv show, secret base in a bank caveau in LA included.

I also often include smaller Nameless Orders alongside the Diamond and the Seers, although which ones specifically depends on the campaign and the setting. I once had one allied with the Mysterium that was basically the Sanctuary from that one TV show no one else remembers.

>>96575446
>When I play Awakening I erase the Free Council as an Order and make it more of political position among the moderate/progressives subfactions of the Diamond Orders.
Why?

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Euthanatos damage control lol

>>96575296
The character concepts at the back of the Clanbooks always did, however, and that’s what this is meant to be, a plug-and-play character concept.

As for following a Path, maybe, but Path followers are supposed to be exceptionally rare, and I can’t see the Sabbat inducting a Caitiff into one of them.

Like I said, it’s self-correcting in an actual Chronicle.

>>96575520
I love how almost a quarter of Revised's word count is dedicated to sidebars that say "here's how you assholes reading this misconstrue the shit that we write, now stop doing this shit and do it right for once you fucking neanderthals"

>>96575520
So they're murder crazy necromancers that want to avoid their own fate but hasten others got it

>>96575598
2nd edition was the Goldilocks zone for mage
1st edition was jank as all hell and basically just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks, but it had soul
Revised has some interesting stuff in it, but it's no fun allowed
M20 is Brucato's Magical Realm(tm), personal blog and nerf emporium

>>96564325
Not immunity no, but higher Blood Potency gives you a much stronger chance. Plus most of the 1 dot Discipline effects are short lasting, so it's not as though one lucky success on Awe is going to leverage any major doors open in the Danse without any consequence.

Generally speaking, your "social" disciplines are a lot more effective against Kine than Kindred, and a lot of the books will highlight how it's kind of a faux pas to use your disciplines as a crutch.

What does "nephandi" actually mean?

>>96575664
I understand that discipline use has narrative consequence, and how blood potency gives bonus dice to resist. It's more that, from a game design perspective, Majesty has an early hard failure point for Awe in a 2 part vs. 2 part dice pool (predatory aura is Power Attribute + BP vs. Power Attribute + BP), and later powers are still often 3 part vs. 2 part dice pools (Presence + Empathy + Majesty vs. Resolve + BP for Confidant). But Dominate's building block power, Mesmerize, is 3 part vs. 2 part (Int + Expression + Dominate vs Resolve + BP). So it has fewer failure points and its big potential failure point, just not being able to mesmerize someone, is less likely to fail when compared to Awe.

>>96575764
Nefandus is a Latin word for heinous, abominable, etc.
Make it a little more fantastical by replacing the 'f' with a 'ph.' From Nefandus into Nephandus.
If Nephandus is the singular, what is the plural? Going by Latin convention, if the singular form ends with -us, then the plural form ends with -i. So, Nephandi is the plural form of Nephandus.

>>96575832
>"Baddies" with a Harry Potter filter

>>96575832
OK, but why are Nephandi the way they are?

>>96575924
They willingly went through an evil unbirthing process that twists their avatar to make it forever evil.
You can kill one and he'll just reincarnate into a sociopathic child that will sooner or later awaken and continue being an evil cunt.
You can try to destroy their avatar to end it all but your own avatar doesn't like that, so maybe there is an even bigger cosmic solution but nobody knows for sure. Maybe some super Archmage or some Oracle may have an alternative but they're too detached from even normal mage struggles to do anything about it.

>>96575998
>noooo if you kill the horrible irredeemable villain, you'll become just as evil!
I hate this trope soooo much

>>96576066
In this instance I think it might be more like avatars are all the same body and it winces when its tumors are cut

>>96576066
It has nothing to do with morality.
It's just that we don't fully understand the nature of Avatars. They all might be interconnected, so destroying one might technically be hurting them all.
It really is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" case where you have to pick between destroying an avatar and potentially pissing off yours (and pissing off a lot of other mages because anyone who knows how to do it is considered a massive threat) or killing a monster that will inevitably reincarnate and become a monster again, but then he will be somebody else's problem. Unless you're a very dedicated Euthanatos with the right spheres and you're willing to dedicate your life to killing newborn babies.

>>96576350
GILGUL THEM ALL

>>96576350
It doesn't feel like a true game of Mage unless the Technocracy comes in and says "oh no problem, we have a solution for that. We're adjusting the Consensus to no longer believe in reproduction. No more babies, problem solved."

>>96576448
literally Voormas's end game

>>96576448
So THAT'S why the Technocrats distributed those sterilizing injections in the early 20s.

What is the most powerful splat in oWod? Is it Demon the Fallen? Same question for CofD. I assume its Mage in that one.

>>96576815
>What is the most powerful splat in oWod?
Me.

>>96576815
>What is the most powerful splat in oWod? Is it Demon the Fallen?
Do you mean gameplay or lore? Cause lorewise Vampire edges out the other oWoD splats via the Antediluvians/Caine/Lilith. Gameplay wise, all the oWoD splats can do disgusting exploitative combat builds, but in a 'normal' sense Werewolf is the most powerful at the least xp investment though. And Changeling prior to 20th anniversary is hands down the weakest in gameplay because all of your special Glamour abilities only apply to those who are aware of it. 20th anniversary changed the rules and now Chimeras and Cantrips can directly affect the material world, so it's more in line with the other splats.
>Same question for CofD. I assume its Mage in that one.
Gameplay wise, yeah, not much competition. Lorewise I think the hypothetical arch-qashmals of Promethean might be at the actual top of NWoD powerlevels, if not the Gentry. One of the two.

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>>96576864
Dont be an ass
>>96576815
WoD is vampire because of antideluvians. Archmasters are memes. In Cofd its demon unless you play imperial mysteries

Vampires are strong because their grandparents are coming to fuck their dead butts?

>>96576972
This. Vampire cope is delicious. Vampires is pretty midtier all things considered. Antideluvians aren't playable and never will be playable and shouldnt be included for Vampire powerlevels

>>96576815
Mummy or Mage, if I recall

>>96576972
>>96576992
>-t. seething archNEETs who spend all day inside their magical realm gooncaves and will literally die if they set a toe into the real world

>>96576992
>>96576972
>t. illiterate faggot magetrannies who don't even read my post but want to complain anyways because you got your pussy-ass bitch splat sensibilities offended like the little cunts you are

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>>96577016
>>96577027
>t. Got turned into a lawnchair

>>96577041
Magic is gay and also not real.
>*watches you explode*

>>96577046
>*vamps dont trigger consensus*
Sorry cant hear you over the sound of your flesh roasting in the day light I created

>>96577062
That's cool, I used Presence and summoned a hundred normal humans to look at you while you perform those faggy wizard gestures and chant in broken Latin.
>*watches you shit blood and die*

>>96576815
my god you niggas really fell for this one?