What was worse for warhammer 40k?Marvelization or MTGization?Personally I stand with the latter being worse simply because normies can like marvel but the lows of mtg players are far lower
Let me know if I got it right:Marvelization only >the setting is insufferably lameMtG-ization>the gameplay is impossible to enjoy
the setting was always dogshit. Its the players that have become worse
>>96579090>the setting was always dogshit.- nucrons- everything related to Primaris- Primarchs returning- wammen - more marine-wank than ever- Leagues of Votann- storyshitting, instead of a mostly static soap-box settingEven if we grant that you're correct, it has gotten shittier.
>>96579110None of those elements are what make the setting shit.
>>96579121>Even if we grant that you're correct, it has gotten shittier.
>>96579110>- nucronsAren't "nu"crons literally from 2011?
>>96579135Yes. And XX chromosomes are older than 40k too
>>96579084ye
>>96579141>WE DEMAND INCLUSION IN EVERYTHINGYou aren't represented by women, anon.
>>96579141What
>>96579163The transformer-people are reflexively supportive of any changes to the setting. Not because they necessarily like the changes, but because they are reflexively opposed to anything established; anything "old guard." I know, it's bizarre.
>>96579110>Primarchs returninghaving a real timeline is good shut up
>>96579163Look two posts up.
>>96579520This one? >>96579150
>>96579047The worst thing for 40k was GW going public. If they didn't have the faggot endless profit increase motive they might have still remained a hobbyist-centric company and writers. Both the marvelization and MTGization are caused by the company chasing profit growth
>>96579536ye
>>9657904740k gameplay was shit since like 6e bro.Like it was always a worse version of whfb gameplay wise and its setting is all that keeps it afloat
>>96579110Dan Abnett (marvel writer for Death's Head and Guardians of the Galaxy) wrote for Warhammer before all of that.
>>96579047Ruining the lore is worse than the gameplay, in my view, simply because there was more to ruin. 40k has always had weird bits of lore, but prior to 8th was generally interesting enough to make me bother playing it, despite the gameplay being objectively pretty poor. Post-8th, the gameplay got a lot worse, but the setting also took such a nosedive that I have no further interest in it. Even worse, that bad setting follows over into secondary media, so despite this being an era with a lot of really good looking secondary media for 40k most of it is ruined by nulore.40k is defined by lore more than ruleset. So ruining the lore is worse.
>>96579781Having a former marvel writer isn't what people mean by marvelizationIts more media aping the MCU's tone and style than anything
>>96579047MTGization was infinitely worse. to be honest, i don't really care what they do in the nu-lore; you can just choose to ignore it, and the aesthetic is most of the setting's charm anyways, not the specific happenings within it.but the MTGization of the gameplay with stratagems, restricted loadouts, fixed points costs, and other such e-sporty compfaggotry makes actually playing the game miserable, unless you're one of the rare few people that has friends who can be coerced into playing older editions.or you can just play heresy, but who knows how long it'll be before that gets Shrimplified too.
>>96579537Capitalism...
>>96579913I think there was more at play than an economic theory
>>96579047>Marvelization or MTGization?What's the difference?
>>96579978So you've posted a side product specifically designed and marketed to extract money from a very particular group of people, and you're saying that that's not capitalism?
>>96580222The former is how the lore has been inspired by marvel: Quipy shit, the primarchs being like the avengers, less weird stupid shit that would scare normiesThe latter is how the game is now more about netdecks and listbuilding rather than positioning and the like
>>96579135>2011AND IT'S IN THE BOOKGRUDGING>>96579781Dan wasn't making it marvelHe wrote Gaunt's ghosts and Malus darkblade, usually warstories and the likethe only thing i think is marvel in his catalogue would be the inquisitor stories but that's kinda a stretch
>>96579047MTGization would imply endless nonsense crossovers, which we haven't had yet.
>>96584828Crossovers took M:tG two-and-a-half decades... be patient.
>>96584620>dorfredditorPost disregarded
>>96579514Having a real timeline is missing the point.
>>96579047>MarvelizationNo such thing in 40k. Only terminally online edgelords say that. It's the product of reading reddit and shallow GW marketing, but not what actually happens in 40k stories and lore.>muh infinite and the DivineThe main characters are eccentric and inmortal, but their hijinks end up in pretty grimdark outcomes. Other necron books are nothing like that.>MTGizationHalf true. After the early 8th indexes the game has degenerated in a gotcha stratagem/combo game. But the real rot began much earlier with trying to appease tourneyfags
>>96579110I think the story moving forward is the best way to get a new setting. Things will keep going until they reach a critical point and we're left in the aftermath of however the balance shifts. Say we end up with the Astronomicon going out as the Emperor begins his rebirth, but that's going to take like another 10k years. Now Warp travel is all but impossible and with everyone cut off from each other, the different Guard, Marine, Sister, and Ordo cultures are allowed to develope without as much oversight. Different branches of the Imperial truth come about. Some Chapters turn renegade as hope fades, Guard Regiments are forced to incorporate combined arms instead of the regimental structure, Sisters either fall to Chaos or go even further bat shit. Now the setting allows for all of these groups to fight eachother on a larger scale than one offs. Try to look on the brighter side.
>>96580285He said MORE. Fuck's sake, what is this 3rd cabal of people who recognize the issue of gay shit being forced down everyone's throats, but act like corporations aren't also being driven by ideological motives? Are you some type of retard faggot communists who are trying to convince people that if we got rid of capitalism all the gay shit would go away? You act like it can't be BOTH. And even though capitalism is PARTLY the issue, the bigger one is obviously the gay shit. It's one thing if a company is putting out garbage to try and stretch profits, it's another thing when they're actively destroying cultural cornerstones at the behest of rabid ideologs who just wanna see the old world burn. The former is handled by just not buying the shit, the latter keeps spreading and entrenching itself, oh, and everything is now gay as shit on top of being half baked, and even the stuff that isn't being half assed is being infected.
It's the Disney Sterilization that happens to all corporate properties, where we have "A GRIMDARK FUTURE FULL OF WAR AND SUFFERING AND BRUTALITY AND--IS THAT A TITTYYYYYYYYYYY!?!?!? RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE GET RID OF IT!!!">emperor's children? drugs and rock n roll lol! don't talk about the other thing!>dark eldar? torture and decadence lol! don't talk about the other thing!>genestealer cults? FAMBLY FAMBLY FAMBLY! don't talk about the other thing!!>get rid of the slaaneshi daemonettes and just never talk about them again!>from now on all female characters get laugh lines as deep as my ass crack!GW running and hiding from everything even remotely sexual is just one of the many symptoms of a setting becoming too popular, but that's fine, because 40k, more than any other pop culture property, is defined by the people who experience and play it.Headcanon > > > Canon in 40k, it always has been.
>>96579537GW became a public corpo in 1990, child>>96586845See above.The sex stuff has always been avoided or only mentioned in media where it was actually relevant to the plot and could not easily arrive into Timmy's mom hands (like the Fulgrim novel).
>>96586810>gay shit being forced downfriendless and terminally online goons like you don't know it, but in the real world, post 2000s creatives in western countries are almost all supportive of the "gay shit".Nobody needs to tell them to insert that into the media they work on. In fact, they're usually restrained by the people in charge out of caution.Source: I work with entertaiment companies and I see it every day
>>96586954this, it's been a consistent form of entertainment to see gay shit teased early on in a show, only for these braindead simpletons to all cry out>TURN OFF YOUR SHIPPING GOGGLES YOU FREAKSand then at the end of the show when it all goes as planned they throw a collective fit.>THERE WAS NO BUILDUP IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE THIS IS AWFUL AND I HATE ITlike bro, it wasn't even subtext, it was just text.
>>96586954>post 2000s creatives are all supportive of gay shitWow, almost like they're the gay shit ideologs I was just talking about. Normal people don't support their favorite things being remade to be gay and trans. Yeah, post 2000s creatives are deeply indoctrinated, that's the problem. What do you get out of acting like this isn't the case or that normal people are alright with it? Like, who do you think you're fooling?
>>96579913Capitalism is why 40k exists in the first place. You can say that GW's early success is an example of healthy capitalism. A product was created and found a market. Going public, however, is a very special kind of crony capitalism that literally sells the company to the public bidder, and then the public bidder gets to dictate what you do with your company. It's like a sickening, incestuous fusion of usury and gambling; you're accepting a loan from the public in exchange for the promise that your gamble (to make greater profits using their investment money as capital) will pay off, but the nature of this loan is equivalent to a joint mortgage and shareholders effectively own your corporation rather than simply investing in it. The worst possible collateral you could put up against a loan is ownership of something, because it restricts what the company itself can do when it has to deal with the demands of ignorant rich investors who don't care what the hobby is supposed to be like, they just want it to print money for them. In short, the stock market is the root of all evil.
>>96587232>normal peopleyou're delusional. These ARE normies, they're just in a different cultural context that mental third worlders like you. Calling them "indoctrinated" is just cope. You're waaay more actually indoctrinated by online bs than them.And I don't even care for the "gay shit", btw>What do you get out of acting like this isn't the casethe warm fuzzy feeling of putting in their place actually gay and retarded offtopic shitposters like you that can't ever shut up about politics. You're as bad as the troon discord raiders. You all deserve 9mm pills>>96587365lol, more delusions. The stock market is THE "capitalism" that gives it the name, and usury and gambling are baked in since the Dutch invented its modern form. Your mom and pop business fairy tales are for children and ignorant normies.tl;dr: you don't know anything about 40k or the entertainment business. You're just worthless shitposters
>>96587468>lol, more delusions. The stock market is THE "capitalism" that gives it the nameThe stock market didn't exist until 1602, and capitalism had already been the de facto economic system of the West for thousands of years. >Your mom and pop business fairy tales are for children and ignorant normies.It's amazing the level of projection that commies use. Communism is a Jewish fairy tale that has consistently delivered nothing but nightmares and failed governments since its inception. >tl;dr: you don't know anything about 40k or the entertainment business. You're just worthless shitpostersLol, rich words from a commie cockroach
>>96587513>capitalism had already been the de facto economic system of the West for thousands of years.Imagine writing this and pretending to be taken seriously, lmaoNot to mention not understanding the criticism, as if any previous iterations of "capitalism" had been free of usury and gambling at any point of recorded history>muh commiemore retardation from an inverse tankie subhuman with no idea about how things work outside of your simpleton dualistic worldview>Communism is a Jewish fairy taleCommunism is 100% the product of magical thinking autistic germans (Hegel et al ), and you retards call "jewish" everything under the sun you don't like except actual jewish things (like the fucking Bible)
>>96579135Wait a second, so 3rd ed oldcron codex (the only oldcron codex, I suppose) was released in like 2000-2001, and nucron 5th ed codex was released fall of 2011, so that means nucrons now have been around longer than oldcrons, 14 years versus 10? Holy shit. It seems like 40k's golden age was really short.
>>96587809real necron players and collectors do not give a shit about muh oldcrons. 5th+ is when the faction actually became more than mindless NPC with The Fall of Damnos or The Fall of Orpheus. All the stuff added afterwards until the new necron novels and the ongoing post Indomitus range refresh has been golden."Muh oldcrons" is a retarded middlehammer hipster meme. "Golden age" my ass.
>>96587809Necrons were Chaos Androids or a mail order oddity for most of 40k's actual golden age>>96587876If you enjoyed "the Infinite and the Reddit" you are a lost hope.
>>96587907Necrons came in late 2e after Chaos androids but they weren't the same thing, you fake grogThey were designed at the same time as WHFB tomb kings>muh InfiniteI love how that book is useful to out redditors like you that have not actually read it, or any other necron books
>>96587876>>96587907>40k's actual golden ageWell, to each his own. It's my personal perceived 40k's golden age then, because RT-2nd ed had shittier, goofier art, shittier, goofier miniatures etc. Even 3rd edition was still developing. Actual golden age to me was the end of 3rd when the Chapter Approved books came out and 4th, early 5th until Blood Angels codex came out. Then the slide back to shit began. Grey Knights codex, etc. Actually, nucrons were fine compared with GK bullshit.
>>96586945>GW became a public corpo in 1990And it's been a long decline ever since.
>>96587907>>96587907I own two units of these, and frankly they're shit. The newer 'terminator' like crons are much much better.I kindof want a copy of Assholetep to paint up, but more for the meme lols than to seriously rock the model in game even as a proxy.The latest iteration of warriors is the same terminators with some weathering, cracks and breakage. Still greatly cooler than any "old cron" models.
