>>96586648
Depends on what system. Which is?

>>96586791
DnD 5E and Pathfinder 2E

>>96586812
>DnD 5E and Pathfinder 2E
In that case he's more like a 3rd level fighter. At least 5E, don't know PF.

>>96586791
Maple Story Classic

>>96586791
Guts Fighting System: the RPG for the representation of Guts as a tabletop RPG character

>>96587135
post pdf

>>96586648
Guts is likely a custom class, but at minimum he has some levels of Barbarian alongside his Fighter levels.

>>96586648
Aside from their ability to endure ludicrous amounts of punishment, fighters in D&D are fucking pathetic compared to anyone in real life. In terms of raw durability, including the Berserker armor, Guts is 10th-level tops. In terms of actual fighting ability, he completely breaks the scale (although that's not very difficult to begin with).

>>96586648
Nobody here can decide what a level 20 Fighter is. I have seen the range from Captain America to Kratos

>>96587242
Fighters in D&D are actually pretty insane. A 15th level fighter, properly equipped, can easily defeat something like a 40k Space Marine.

It's important to remember that each "attack" is not just a single swing of a sword, but often a whole series of complex actions that take up the majority of a six-second round for a low-level character. Fighters (and most classes, for that matter) become essentially supernatural as they level up in more ways than just raw durability, with their speed, ability to anticipate and react, and just generally be better/faster/stronger also exceeding ordinary human limits as early as level 1 in some cases/editions, and by 10 we're talking about people who can casually kill an elephant, in some cases in under six seconds.

By 15, a D&D fighter makes Plot-armor-covered characters like John Wick or Batman look almost quaint, and by 20 they're literally borderline demigods, as in when they hit 21 they can actually begin to qualify for ranks of divinity.

>>96586648
In terms of the HP that a level 20 Fighter would have, sure. Guts survives things that would kill anyone else a dozen times over. But level 20 fighters are nowhere near as crafty, clever, and skilled as Guts is. For instance, a level 20 fighter would not know how to maintain and wield an arm-cannon or a repeating crossbow. A level 20 Fighter would not know how to throw knives. These require exotic proficiency feats, and there's no way in hell a level 20 fighter would waste precious feats on this stuff. Guts is also extremely high Dexterity, unusual for a Fighter in DnD. Guts is in my opinion half Rogue, half Fighter, wherein he primarily focuses on landing critical hits and sneak attacks against flat-footed monsters to make up the gap in raw strength. He uses ambushes and unexpected weaponry like his concealed arm cannon to render his foes flat-footed for that juicy sneak attack crit damage. He also uses unusual weapons that, again, a Fighter would never invest in because Fighters have to invest all their feats into the Cleave and Power Attack feat trees just to be somewhat effective at their jobs. Guts definitely has both Cleave and Power Attack, though. Like with almost all characters from popular media, it's impossible to simply fit Guts into just one class because he shows aspects from multiple classes.

>>96587267
Nobody ere can decide what Captain America is either. He goes from "Kinda strong/smart/fast guy" to "Can calculate and throw a shield to hit 10 guys in a room."

Even just hitting two guys with one throw is pretty insane.

>>96587329
>These require exotic proficiency feats
You don't know the system you're talking about.
>knives are exotic weapons
For fuck's sake.

>>96587351
You think arm cannons don't require exotic proficiency? Dumbfuck. Get off of /tg/.

>>96587351
>half Rogue, half Fighter
No Barb?

>>96587371
Repeating crossbows and knives don't, and Guts is very likely just taking the attack penalty with the Arm Cannon because it's only -4 without the proficiency and he clearly does not know how to use it as anything other than as a last resort and typically at point-blank range.

So, shut the fuck up, you retard.

>>96587391
>Repeating crossbows and knives don't
That's not what I said in my post, idiot.
>Guts is very likely just taking the attack penalty with the Arm Cannon because it's only -4 without the proficiency
He's an eagle-eye shot with the thing, he's not using it without proficiency. He also can reload it surprisingly quickly despite the number of steps involved.
>he clearly does not know how to use it as anything other than as a last resort and typically at point-blank range.
He has sniped Griffith from long range with it, you stupid fucking faggot. You don't know shit about Berserk and you don't know shit about DnD.
>So, shut the fuck up, you retard.
Get out.

>>96587413
>He's an eagle-eye shot with the thing,
He barely uses it for anything more than twenty feet away, when most canons have ranges in hundreds of feet.
And, proficiancy doesn't do anything regarding reload speed. The only thing it affects is removing the -4 attack penalty, and Guts has high enough base attack to cover for that easily.

Also, quit it with the "LOOK AT HOW AGGRESSIVE OF A RETARD I AM" shit. Little dick energy is radiating from you.

>>96587429
Why are you even arguing about feats? Fighters can spare feats,

>>96587429
>He barely uses it for anything more than twenty feet away, when most canons have ranges in hundreds of feet.
Except he does use it for sniping, like in the example I just mentioned.
>And, proficiancy doesn't do anything regarding reload speed.
Proficiency is described in the 3.5 Player's Handbook as the general understanding of the proper usage of a weapon, including the function of the weapon's individual parts. You are functionally retarded if you think Guts, who has shown he knows exactly how to use it and maintain it, does not have proficiency. Frankly, you don't belong here.
> The only thing it affects is removing the -4 attack penalty, and Guts has high enough base attack to cover for that easily.
Not against Apostles. You assume incorrectly that they're going to have low AC just because AC values were flattened in 5e (the worst edition ever). In 3.5, high CR monsters like Apostles will have ACs of over 30, since we see skilled soldiers and warriors that aren't Guts struggling to even scratch their natural hide and armor.

>>96587438
>Fighters can spare feats
This is how I know you've never played a 3.5 Fighter. Fighter feats are a flowchart in 3.5 that leaves pretty much zero room for creativity and variety. You have maybe one or two feats that aren't automatically spent into the Power Attack and Cleave trees, which are most likely going into Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, combat maneuver feats, etc. The central premise of the class is "lots of bonus feats" but you always end up taking the same ones because they're so vital to a Fighter build you're wasting your build if you don't, and quickly fall behind other martial classes that get class abilities to provide bonuses on par with or better than what you get from all your feats.

I'm gonna be honest, everyone, I have no idea what a level 15 Fighter looks like let alone a level 20.

>>96587492
You don't understand how characters, classes, or stats work, at a fundamental level.

And you're mostly just a dumb bitch who wants to run his mouth. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, cut that shit out, you type like a retard.

Let's look at a character like Elminster or Drizzt, ones we have official stats for.

YOU have made the assumption a character must be made like some sort of retarded ultra-optimized shit, mostly just so you can explain how little you actually know about optimized 3.5 fighters.

But, that's not how character stats work. Elminster/Drizzt (and Guts) don't need to be optimized, they don't need to fall under a certain level. If Drizzt wastes half his levels on flavor business, and at 18th level is only equivalent to perhaps a 14th level optimized fighter, that's fine. If Guts need 20 levels instead of 14 to represent him, that's fine too. If someone decides Drizzt should in fact be equivalent to a 15th level optimized fighter, they can just tack on some extra levels.

Do you understand this? Also, please don't bother replying, no one actually wants to read any of your posts.

>>96587325
Even not properly equipped, sticking a D&D Fighter into a 40k wargame would still have good odds against a space marine, since even with a sharp stick and primitive armor, you have something with a similar number of wounds to a tank along with 3+ attacks.
Easily soaks up bolter fire and gets past power armor saves via sheer volume.

But that's ultimately just saying that 20 chaos cultists can defeat a lone space marine via melee.

As soon as you assume that the Fighter might have better gear, like magical armor to protect against bullets or a magic sword to help get through power armor, then it also starts to fall apart since the marine could also have better gear. Stuff like a missile launcher to just blast the fighter from 48" before he can close the gap, or a meltagun which can one-shot tanks, and therefore puts the fighter in actual danger.

A fighter can take a ridiculous amount of punishment and puts out damage on par with a squad of ordinary soldiers, but that's still relatively limited. Certainly not demigod level in terms of anything other than the amount of punishment they can take.

>>96588043
>since the marine could also have better gear.
it's not gonna match up against what the fighter can have. A missile launcher is cute compared to the kind of magic gear a high level fighter could have access to.

There's shields and armors that make you outright immune to various forms of damage, slaying arrows, speed enhancements, all sorts of fun stuff.

>>96586648
Not in any D&D system that caps at 20th, no.

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>>96587602
> what a level 15 Fighter looks like let alone a level 20

-Single-handedly wins battles
-His mere presence is enough to buff the moral of an entire army
-Virtually unkillable
-Not a single adversary can stand against him in hand-to-hand combat
-Doesn’t even struggle to fight

>>96588283
No D&D system caps at 20.

>is a [character from a non-interactive medium, whose behaviors, abilities, and equipment have been determined by an author to facilitate a story] a good representation of a [template for an interactive medium written under the pretense that it would be consistent in performance regardless of individual campaign, under the pretense that it would be used by a player to meet challenges of a supposed game]?
No.

>>96587639
nta, but isnt that compairing apples to oranges?
cause i thought Elmisnter is a wizard and Drizzt is a ranger

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>>96588287
I fuckin love Troy

>>96586648
D&D barely works for D&D. It doesn't model any other kind of fantasy remotely correctly.

>>96586791
Janny Simulator 5.5e

>>96588287
Is that a level 15 or 20?

>>96586967
>a 3rd level fighter can solo 100 men

>>96587329
A level 20 fighter in 5e has the most ability score increases and feats of any class, the most likely candidate to have high stats in all physical stats ad well as numerous odd proficiencies (though daggers and crossbows come with the default fighter proficiency set)

>>96587413
>>96587429
Yes I love when nerds get overly passionate about their hobbies and fight over semantics with temerity in their hearts! Fuck it's my very specific fetish I'm cumming ahhhhhh~!!

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>>96589281
Achilles is a legendary warrior, the kind of hero bards sing about, so probably a level 20.
In a campaign, he’d be the final boss or a divine champion, the type of figure that reshapes the story around him.

>>96587329
Nigger youve never played DND in your life
>Level 20 fighters can't throw daggers
LOL

>>96586648
He's more like an 8th level fighter early on and a 12-15th level fighter later.

A Space Marine is a 5th level fighter with some expensive gear.

>>96589281
Level 8. Compare what he actually does instead of assuming high reputation = high stats.

The d20 system is more realistically scaled than you think when you realize someone exists IRL they're capped around level 5. A knight is level 2. A trained professional soldier is level 1. That one guy who was shot 30 times and still killed an enemy squad in Vietnam is level 4.

>>96588254
A fighter is going to take some effort to take down with heavy munitions, but even then the shell will win since the amount of resources it takes to bring a fighter to level 20 compared to the amount of resources it takes to assemble an artillery battery and its crew with a reasonable probablilty of beating him favors the artillery every time, at least if we're going by official-ish modules like Rasputin Must Die!
Still, in situations where overwhelming force can't be brought to bear like ye old dungeon cooridors, nothing beats a honed fighter in his prime.

>>96588305
This

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>>96586648
I hate the 1-20 level system because it makes no sense to lock me out of my class abilities.

Regardless, Captain America would be what I consider the high end fighter and stuff like pic related along with Guts should be the mid tier fighters.

>>96590834
>no blood

Is this censored?
Son't tell me the original manga is like this.

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>>96590908
Of course there is blood. he just hit them really hard and really fast.

>>96588254
Damage immunity relies on a lot of assumptions or what sort of damage a Krak missile deals. And a Lascannon is also of similar threat. Shaving off d6 of a Fighter's dozen wounds is gonna sting all the same.
Slaying arrows don't really affect anything at all, because I was already operating on the assumption that we're talking about a standard 1 wound marine infantry. The Fighter is already assumed to get the kill if he's able to get past a 3+ armor save. It's getting into range that's the main hurdle.

Speed enhancements probably help more than anything else, since even just doubling movement is enough to decrease the 3-4 rounds of heavy weapons fire down to a mere 2 at best. And outside of some very good rolls that's not going to cut it.
Again though, I already agreed that a Fighter had good odds even if both of them had the most basic toolkits available, with just mundane weapons and a standard bolter marine. Bringing up heavier weapons was mostly to illustrate that the Fighter class by itself, while good at taking punishment, isn't some sort of unstoppable force.

You're talking about results that could, again, be achieved by 20 chaos cultists on a good day. Adding magical gear into the mix and it's more akin to a squad of Howling Banshees.
Which to be clear, is still very good. But it's not so good that a Fighter would want to run across an open field into multiple enemies with heavy weapons. Nor would he really want to fight any army single-handedly, because attrition would still get him.
Keep in mind 40k is a wargame where there are stats for Daemon Primarchs, which are absolutely as close to demigods as you can get within the tabletop, and even they can get taken out by sufficient volumes of fire.

>>96589304
Easily.

>>96587329
>For instance, a level 20 fighter would not know how to maintain and wield an arm-cannon or a repeating crossbow. A level 20 Fighter would not know how to throw knives.
I don't think I'd want to play a game where a level 20 fighter can't do something that I could reasonably do in real life with 20 levels worth of practice. Yeesh. This is bait, right?

>>96590992
What was that meme about the weapon cord where dude tried it with a mouse, deemed it impossible, and removed it?

>>96588294
3, 4, and 5 do you fuckwit.

>>96590992
>This is bait, right?
Do you have any idea how few skill points Fighters get?

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>>96586648
>Is Guts a good representation of a level 20 Fighter?

No.
Guts is somewhere between 7th or 10th level. Secondly, Guts is clearly a Berserker/Barbarian, it's literally in the title of the series. Guts' weapon proficiency, leadership abilities, and his roaming self-sufficiency skills, however, are more in-line with a Warrior/Fighter though, I'll give you that.

>>96587602
>I'm gonna be honest, everyone, I have no idea what a level 15 Fighter looks like let alone a level 20.

Did you happen to watch that Noah film from 2014? The one with Russel Crowe?
There's a scene where Methuselah unsheaths his flaming sword, stabs it into the ground, and kills hundreds of thousands of guys. A 20th level Warrior should be capable of something like that.

>>96590641
>>96588287

Achilles, as depicted in the movie, is probably 5th level. Max.

>>96590983
D&D is solved math, show your work.

>>96591160
4E's level cap is 30.

>>96586648
Guts is not even level 20 in his own world he couldn't do shit to Femto

I have Guts for Savage Worlds as a rank 10 character.
Guts
Attributes: Agility d10, Smarts d6, Spirit d4, Strength d10, Vigor d8
Skills: Athletics d6, Battle d4, Common Knowledge d4, Fighting d10, Intimidation d4, Language (Native) d8, Notice d6+2, Occult d4, Persuasion d4, Riding d4, Shooting d8, Stealth d6, Taunt d6
Pace: 6; Parry: 9; Toughness: 11 (4); Size: Normal (1)
Hindrances: Cursed (custom, major), Death Wish, Stubborn
Edges: Alertness, Berserk, Brawny, Improved Frenzy (custom), Improved Trademark Weapon (Sword, Great), Trademark Weapon (Sword, Great)
Armor: Plate Arms (Armor 4), Plate Corselet (Armor 4), Plate Leggings (Armor 4)
Weapons: Unarmed (Range Melee, Damage Str), Sword, Great (Range Melee, Damage Str+d10, +2 to Hit, +2 Parry)
Language: Native (native, d8)
Current Wealth: $500
Special Abilities
Languages Known: Native (native, d8)
Advances
Novice Advances
Raise Attribute: Agility
Raise Skills: Fighting/Occult
Edge: Alertness
Seasoned Advances
Raise Attribute: Vigor
Edge: Frenzy (custom)
Edge: Berserk
Raise Skills: Riding/Shooting
Veteran Advances
Raise Attribute: Strength
Edge: Improved Trademark Weapon (Sword, Great)
Edge: Improved Frenzy (custom)

>>96591160
1 and 2e soft cap at 20, but really hardcap based on your race if you're not human. They have rules to extend out to 36.
Basic is like 1/2e but soft caps at 14.
3.x and 5e soft cap at 20 but has no actual upper limit due to Epic progression rules.
4e hard caps at 30.

>>96586648
>nu anime for nu males

Gross