It would be magic if OP actually replies to a post in his own theead

Nonexistent.
I used real life.

1. there is a cost
2. anything that people "know" about magic only aids in the confidence of the user rather than being actual fact, ie if some grand wizard tells you the "magic words" for conjuring a fireball, you believe him because he can do it, but there isn't some code to the universe that makes a fireball, it's just that you think/will it hard enough. Basically you have to believe in yourself :)

OK, I had an idea for a magic system, where magic is some kind of force that can affect matter and interacts with human thought, but the user has to know exactly what they're doing. You can't just say some magic words to make a fireball appear, you have to know about how air molecules contain hydrogen and oxygen atoms, which can be flammable and be able to visualize the strands of magic intertwining with your nerves pulling them apart and then have some way of igniting them. Also there'd probably need to be things the caster would have to do to make themselves more receptive to the magic energy like using certain drugs and/or mental conditioning rituals to induce a heightened state of concentration. Maybe there could be shortcuts like artifacts such as paper talismans or crystals that could have certain spells pre-loaded onto them like computer programs so the yser just needs to will them to activate under the right conditions.

>>96618840
>take a shit ton of peyote
>you're tripping out so fucking hard you think you can see molecular compositions of objects, air, EVERYTHING - you just need to squint
>The player will never know how close they came to nuking half the region

Sounds pretty cool, honestly.

>>96617229
I have a magic system I been messing with that more than just one "system." You have the classic mages and arcane system. Then those who are granted power from gods, devils, fey, etc. Those who have their own "power" etc. Think a Nen like system.

>>96617229
I'm going to come back to this thread in three weeks and call you a nogames faggot.

I prefer magic to actually be supernatural or unnatural, and not just something that can get automated with machines. Something that can be used, but will never be understood beyond its surface-level traits like costs, effects and consequences.
I have designed multiple systems for multiple settings, sometimes more than one system in a setting.

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>>96617229
Not my system, it was created by a quest native for his fantastic skirmish games.
If any of this interests you, you can observe the system in action here:
>https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2024/6108817/

>>96617229
Sorcery is based in flexion of the soul, the contours of your own spirit and pulse of energy providing the final result: magical waveforms emanating from the spirit engaging in destructive and constructive interference.
The reason magic isn't systematically studied is because its a spiritual process far more than a mental one, each individual needing to learn the contours of their own spirit to achieve some end. To give a comparison, you can study health and muscle development all day long, but no degree of theory will make you spontaneously manifest a fit body; further, the individual peculiarities of each body means that the most effective health plan is tailored to the individual, not a one-size-fits-all package.

Necromancy is similar, but pulls on the invisible cords binding souls together. Necromancy is similarly deeply personal, because manipulation of another's soul requires an understanding of what ties you together, and what you can use to influence them. As such, necromancy is typically practiced to call on the spirits of family members for support and advice, and not the endless horde of the damned you see in other settings.

>>96619403
You think this thread will last three weeks?

>>96617229
Magic for mortals is entirely done through rituals which require lengthy preparations and precise hours which the rituals can be preformed. It modifies reality in some way when executed which usually persists until the laws of the universe naturally correct themselves, although the mundane effects that were a consequence of it continue to be.

Most of the rituals are wild and have effects beyond what the practitioner intends. Very small changes in the ritual, such as uttering the phrases too fast or too slowly or mispronouncing them, being half a minute off in either direction, the phases of the moon, or other changes can modify the outcome and cause different side effects. A lot of the time, rituals can be fatal for their practitioners, such as one attempting to change lead to gold instead changing flesh to water.

Typically, rituals are known by covens, which all have their own unique way of doing them discovered through trial and error and they typically don't experiment too often due to the danger involved. As such, you can find things like two different groups who know how to create a portal to link two places for a time, but the first group requires it to be done on a new moon before sunrise utilizing crushed pearls in a ring pattern on stone while the other just needs it to be night and can suffice with chalk drawings--there's probably better ways to do any of these particular rituals, but the cost of figuring it out is so great most people just stick with what they know.

>>96619854
This is a bumpfag thread, so unless one of the spammers who hate him show up and -1 it to death, it stands a decent chance of lasting that long on this sad husk of a board.

>>96620164
I'm not denying that trash threads get made, but what's the reasoning behind it? Do they really choke out organic ones?

>>96618840
I've never seen physics knowledge required for magic but in Gate it can make the magic you already have a lot stronger

>>96620164
>-1 it to death
That doesn't work too well, given that he usually shits out another thread immediately after one of his dies.

>>96619796
so what does tis mean practically speaking?
what are 'qualities and values' exactly?
how does this all work mechanically?
is there some formula that tells you how much fire/earth/whatever you can move per action?
how can spell casting be limited to what you can sense, but also be moving around abstract concepts like hate?

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>>96620436
>so what does tis mean practically speaking?
Sorry, I don't really understand the question.
Its a player-side primer designed to give players a general sense for how the magic system works.

> what are 'qualities and values' exactly?
The values being mentioned there are qualities or characteristics of a target object/entity (otherwise referred to as a Source) which can be quantified numerically.
To my understanding, almost everything in the gamespace breaks down into points of stuff.
So a campfire might consist of 12 points of heat and 8 points of light.
A player who stepped into said campfire might gain 3 points of pain and shock for their inattention.
Somebody standing nearby who got smacked in the face by the burning player's warhammer while they were flailing about, might take 1 point of wounds and 5 points of bruising.
All of these values can be pushed and pulled around through Icontheurgical Animancy.

>how does this all work mechanically?
Only the GM knows the nitty-gritty of everything.
If you're more specific I might be able to answer though.

>is there some formula that tells you how much fire/earth/whatever you can move per action?
Yeah! Pretty much.
I believe it is based off of margin of success. Roll-under system.
So you state the intention of your action, roll 3d6, and however much you go under the target number (ThresholdStat+IconotheurgySkill-ComplicatingFactors) is how much stuff your action influences.

>how can spell casting be limited to what you can sense, but also be moving around abstract concepts like hate?
I believe the key there is in the word 'sense'.
In essence, the criteria for using magic is that you are aware of the target value and comprehend it.
Most people can pick up on somebody's hatred and can intuit it, so they'd be able to magically interface with it.
Though manipulating abstracts is easier to do in yourself than others, since you are personally experiencing them and presumably aren't resisting.

Magic as a brand, or a trademark, that comes across something even more bizarre and fantastical, and the shareholders and labellers are freaking out. “Our shit isn’t as magical as the other shit! Noooo!”.

>>96617229
Omnipotent "magic" ( if you define magic as anything not possible irl) is fine with me, as long as the subdivisions of magic are defined in what they can/can't do, under what conditions, and the general sphere of influence.
Magic in most anime in garbage.
Magic in MtG is cool.
4e's power source is cool.

I like weaving as a style. Seemed fun, though easy to break so I'd never play a game with it.
My setting uses two kinds, the one being just straight gifts from gods. Those are fairly self explanatory. The other is ancient technology powered by magic batteries. Lots of golems, guns, grenades, etc. and permanent buffs from god tattoos. Most of it is fairly specific application, but has roleplay opportunities.

>>96617229
Narrative weight.
Most wizards believe that the worlds is filled with spirits and people who manage to entertain them have more weight and power when it comes to magic. Thus a wizard can easily burn a tree, a person, or even a stone house if they aren't really relevant to any current stories unfolding within the world. But if said wizard tries to burn the Dark Lord leading an Army of the Night? Fireball will just break on his armor into harmless embers.

The more important the person the better is their magic resistance and also their ability to enact magic if they have the knowledge to do so. Doing magic actually saps your power until you do something else noteworthy either without magic or with minimal applications of it. Thus most experienced wizards use magic either when it is absolutely needed or indirectly by affecting things that do not have much weight of their own - creating and camouflaging a spiked pit in advance is way easier that trying to create it directly under a marching army for example.

why would there be a system specifically for magic?

>>96623738
utterly retarded lol

>>96623738
You can avoid the internal inconsistencies with this system by using the original Polynesian concept of Mana. It's basically a combination of plot armor + power level that is gained by succeeding in important/influential things and lost by losing in important/influential things.
If you want to make it more gamey, I'd make it an in-universe resource that can be actively spent to do magic/miracles/feats as well.

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Honestly, I just really like D&Ds (and more specifically Pathfinder's version) Vancian style spells and slots (and rituals). It just works and feels good.

Fail at casting a spell? It's just nothing. No warp silliness, no blood cost, no problems, just a fizzling nothing.
Want to cast all day? You're stuck with the weakest spells possible, little blasts of elemental power or little more than tricks.
Want big magic? Rituals! The community blessing crops every year to increase growth and counter blight? A giant Plant Growth ritual.

Its works really well to give the world magic, and you can throw little nuggets of fun at players without needing to worry about unintended effects from overcomplicated rules.

People always want to overcomplicate it, write lots of rules and weird lore for magic but at the end of the day most of them are shit, overcomplicated nonsense, and often turn out more fun to read than to actually play (and arent all that fun to read in the first place).

>>96617229
I like to have different kinds of magic, and characters have backgrounds in them, so they can argue about the nuances and lifestyles they have. It encourages roleplaying.

>>96625578
trash

>>96625593
it definitely doesn't work and doesn't feel good.

>B/X hack
>roll save vs spells to keep spell
>spells are slave spirits that want to escape service
>spells are songs 6 seconds long per level
>1 minute round, 6 second segments AD&D 1e
>the spirit is coerced to act according to song lyrics, magic words essentially
>magic user spell-casting song can be interrupted

>>96619796
Shit man, this looks kind of sick.
Is it open for anyone to join, or is it pay-to-play?

>>96628038
>Spells are demons bound so you have to trap them.
Really nice.

>>96626176
It works, that's why it's been held onto for half a century. It feeling good is case by case thing.

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>>96628395
> Is it open for anyone to join, or is it pay-to-play?
Uh, no. There's no buy-in or weird pesudo-job interview required to join up.
These skirmishes are open to the public, and anybody is welcome to partake.
The only catch is that GM leads a rather busy life - which results in these games only popping up every once in a blue moon.

>>96617229
Magic comes from the Aether, a sort of higher dimentional energy plane. Sorcerers are people who can perceive & direct the Aetheric energies. When doing so, the human mind & body acts as a filter. Spells give the energy shape. No super fantastical powers, mostly it's just energy manipulation or telemetrics. Fireballs, lightning bolts, illusions, etc. There are also creatures which live in the Aether. People call them spirits & they are rarely friendly or benign.

>>96634121
What’s the best way to be ready for them?

>>96620203
>Do they really choke out organic ones?
Yes, never bump garbage like this. Notice the random incomplete thoughts and lack of real discussion? That means this thread is fake and ghey.

>>96639791
The best way would probably be to join the skirmish discord channel.
> https://discord.gg/m4Hemqu6
Its usually pretty dead unless somebody is running something or workshopping something they plan to run.

If you don't want to get involved with discord, then occasionally checking /qst/ should do the trick.
Games tend to last between 2 weeks to a month, so it isn't likely that you'd miss one while actively monitoring for them.

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Magic must be backed by a 'way' in order to be effective and the strength of the magic is determined by the conviction of the user and how close that 'way' is to the Truth.
For example, if you want to create a protective spell, you should care about what it is you're protecting and the spell's power will be proportional to your love and how much that love matters in reality. If you're focused solely on denying an enemies attack, then the spell will be less effective and might actually empower the opponent because you're giving more reality to their 'way' which is attacking you.

This gives a lot more substance to things like Vampires who have a 'way' of being enigmatic monsters who suck the life of the world and can only be killed under very specific means. Ultimately the reason they're defeated isn't because they opened themselves with explicit weaknesses, but because their desire is purely selfish and degenerate, whereas someone with a heroic heart ignores those desires and believes in principles beyond their own gratification. Thus, the heroes magic is stronger because it's very existence rejects the vampire's being outright.

I used to be really about systematic and rules based magic, but as I've grown older, I've come to realize how much of our thinking is abstract, built on analogy, and how much of a role faith actually plays. Ironically, Faith might actually be the most principled thing in existence, because post-enlightenment science doesn't concern itself with the fourth cause and is inherently nihilistic. Magic then should be based on the fourth cause and works it's way down. You might not be able to resurrect your dead wife because of how much meaning her life had while the necromancer can easily animate her bones because he needs a servant to build his monuments, however if you craft a golem and infuse it with all the love and meaning her life had, then it would outclass just about anything the necromancer could create.

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>>96643310
An important distinction to draw is that this isn't simply:
>If believe it, you can do it.
The world exists and many things can be viewed to be consistent, such as death, the change of seasons, gravitation, etc. So you wouldn't be able to just suddenly throw the seasons into disarray or reverse gravity by developing a mental disorder or every drunk and mental asylum patient would be a demi-god.
The belief must be in principle, which is an abstraction of the Truth, and the magic must flow from that principle. This is hard for some RPG players to understand because they want to do cool spells like Flying, Power Word: Death, Raise Dead, and they don't care too much about how they thematically do it. But a veteran player knows that there's a big difference between Flying because you're being carried by forest spirits and Flying because you're utilizing your 'mana', both can be disrupted or enhanced in various ways. The Forest Spirits carry you because you caught their fancy, if you use their magic in a simple way, they might just drop you because they're bored, which is substantially more interesting then:
>I can fly because I believe I can
What's more, if someone believes in a principle like 'might makes right' only because they've been a boorish opportunistic warrior all their life and casts lightning, then they'll be easily defeated by someone who believes 'fire is the breath of life' and has used their fire magic to cook food, do controlled burns, and forge tools because the fire mages principles are more grounded in Truth and thus their spells will be more powerful. A warlord who's conquered many empires, been to all kinds of places, defeated many enemies, and believes in the 'Primordial Truth' would be a much more powerful adversary though.
This isn't to say having Faith is pointless though, since without Faith in principle you'd just have nihilism and the world would be inert.

Depends if you are asking about how people in the world manage magic or if you mean a more philosophical worldbuilding level. Spellcasting all stems from deeper metaphysical paradigms ways of understanding and interacting with reality. Mortals don’t "create" magic. They tap into or imitate the true workings of older, deeper forces.
Like electromagnetism is a thing that exists in our world that we then figured out how to use for things; Magic(capital M) is just a thing that is in their world. Mortal Spellcasting (Common Magic)
This is what most morals use. spellcasters use: wizard spells, cleric invocations, sorcerer bloodlines, etc. It’s functional, broad, and flexible—but ultimately *incomplete*. Mortal magic is a diluted synthesis of deeper principles. It mimics higher truths through symbols, gestures, and incantations.

True Magic
Other beings can go beyond merely casting magic and are more deeply connected to it. Things like the Fae, demons, or gods, don't *do* magic, they just are that way. Each paradigm, or order of creatures, governs a different logic—what magic is, how it works, and what it costs.

Mortals typically borrow bits from many, but true power comes from deep alignment with one. Mastery of a paradigm may unlock exclusive high-level abilities, or change how spells behave entirely for Mages that study them in great detail, but they will also introduce limits inherent to the logic of those paradigms.

>>96617229
magic mishaps
LOTS of magic mishaps

>>96625178
For inputs and outputs.

>>96619854
bump

>>96656133
lmao
NNJXYA

>>96617229
A characters magic is determined by his magic stat. The higher the stat, the better he is at doing magic

>>96661260
How does one raise said stat, study? Using magic regularly? Something else?

>>96617229
These are good writing tips, I don't know why people hate them.

>>96665081
If you want hard, well-defined magic, then why not just write sci-fi?

>>96665096
I'm always amazed by /tg/'s stupidity, it's amazing. This comment is so illogical that I can't believe it.

>>96665096
Poorly understood magic makes for generally bad writing, unless the protag doesn't interact with it intimately.
Conan is a perfect example of this. Conan does not know, understand, or want to understand magic, outside the hedge magic he picked up traveling, so it's workings are not explained.
It's users in the story clearly understand what they are doing.
On the other side of it, the Acts of Caine series shows magic when viewed by practitioners, and by those who are not.

>>96665263
Magic should be mystical. If it has well-defined rules, it's not magic.

>>96665285
According to what universal definition?
The only thing I heard is that anything not understood may as well be magic, not the other way around.

>>96665263
>>96665301
This

>>96665018
Leveling up.
Retard!

>>96665285
>uses chalk to inscribe an intricate seal into the ground implore the will of the greater spirits into banning you from life

>>96617229
90% of all magic has to be accomplished by touch, you can't use a proxy to affect a person.

Touching them opens you up to be affected by the individual you are touching.

Forcing mind control can potentially break the victims mind forcing you to micromanage control of their body.

Reading people's minds comes with the risk of losing your own personality.

Certain abilities only come about after you die (i.e. your heart beat stops) and it's the only way to allow you to communicate with Mind/Souls

>>96619796
Much appreciated. There should be more anons like that.

>>96617229
>How do you prefer your magic
Modular, with each variant focusing on different execution but all using the same magic source.

>>96634603
>Sorcerers are people who can perceive & direct the Aetheric energies.
What determines who can become a sorcerer, is it genetic, something that can be learned, or random? And can spirits be controlled/directed at all?

>>96617229
never found a better system than mage, you can do pretty much anything, but if a player try to abuse it you can erase him from reality

>>96642190
NTA, but thanks for the link.

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>>96617229
Checking your Skill Rating and rolling for it.

>>96677442
>but if a player try to abuse it you can erase him from reality
That seems a little... extreme.

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>>96617229
Hey, how does /tg/ feel about elemental magic systems? And what are some settings and/or game systems with great takes on elemental magic, or resources for creating them? I recently discovered the webcomic Aurora, where the world is formed from the remains of six elemental Primordials, and elemental magic works by channeling the essence of their souls, the titular auroras/elemental winds, back into the physical substance of their bodies through a link in the soul of the mage, for instance.

>>96685787
how do they handle nails?

>>96685251
>>96685787
>>96685923
>>96685968
>>96685997
kill yourself bumpfag

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>>96684656
because it is, in reality it's a point system depending on the particularities of the spell, and to get enough points to leave reality you would need to do the worst type of magic more than a couple of times

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>>96685787
If card games are an option, Chaotic has a focus on which element(s) a creature can use. You ever heard of it? There was even a cartoon.

>>96626169
>trash
What specifically is wrong with it?

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>This

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>>96617229
Do you prefer magic systems that anyone can learn, or ones that you need bloodline access to use, and why? I prefer a mix, due to the issues of classism the latter can cause, anyone can theoretically learn magic, but some lines have a greater affinity to certain branches of spellcasting.

>>96691388
Kill yourself.

>>96685826
Lmao

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>>96617229

> 1) Character describes what they want to do
>
> 2) GM sets a difficulty, considering the scale, scope, and duration of the spell, and any circumstances (for instance- trying to be stealthy)
>
> 3) Player rolls and adds up any circumstantial bonuses (items, potions, buffs, etc.)
>
> 4) GM determines success or failure and describes what happens. Critical Failure can have dangerous and unpredictable effects. Critical Success means effects are heightened, which can also be dangerous in certain circumstances (for instance- blowing yourself up with a fireball)
>
> Failure means the spell fizzles and the character loses mana
>
> Characters can create their own spells, but they receive no bonuses when trying to cast spells outside of their area of expertise
>
> Practically speaking, this means most characters develop a few frequently used "signature spells"
>
> Characters are encouraged to write their own spellbook and record the base difficulty of the spell at the time it was cast.
>
> When casting from the spellbook, characters receive a small bonus for preparedness
>
> This incentivizes players to track things, which helps the GM as well

>>96693199
That's similar to what Pendragon did before taking out all magic.
I recall some system using a list of questions to define a spell's cost, probably a Free League or PbtA thing, it was pretty nice. Very exploitable but you were intended to try to do that.

>>96693295
I'm fine with some level of exploiting the rules. I consider that to be part of the game.

If the spell ends up being more powerful than I thought, I increase the difficulty.

Most players don't ask questions. If they do, I just armor it in setting and flavor- "the arcane energies are different today. The forces of reality push back against you."

Basically, not that different from the Paradox system that another anon wrote about previously.

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>>96617229
Are there any species in your setting that have particular affinities for a specific kind(s) of magic, and why that kind if so? I found this image and liked it, so Catfolk in my setting have a strong affinity for necromancy and related spells now.

>>96617229
Magic is setting literal rules even if those rules somewhat conflict with reality.
What this means is you can set a rule to create a fireball, and you can set a rule to curse someone.
But because it's very literal, you can slip out of a lot of it via bullshit.

>>96695452
What this means is that wizard battles become more like lawyers arguing and counterspelling, or doing stuff from very far away and setting them in motion. Fights against wizards often work around figuring out the trick to a trap or spell

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>>96617229
How essential do you prefer focus items like wands or staves to be? I dislike the idea that spellcasting is impossible, or at least too much more difficult, without such an item, because otherwise it makes it stretch belief that magic would ever have been discovered.

What's the draw in making a "hard magic" system with so many fucking rules that then get broken for plot progression or chosen one bullshit. Sanderson's stuff is almost shounen like. I don't understand the appeal of it.

>>96619403
OK.

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>>96697890
What precisely is the issue? Also, whenever the rules are seemingly broken, it's because the understanding of them was flawed in the first place, like in Mistborn when Vin learns she can pierce through copper's shielding effect, because it can be overpowered, unlike what was commonly considered to be the case at the time. The core mechanics by which Investiture works stays the same.

>>96704088
Or when one of the gods personally intervenes. Don’t forget that.

>>96642190
>Games tend to last between 2 weeks to a month, so it isn't likely that you'd miss one while actively monitoring for them.
That long, huh? Not sure if I can do one with work going on, I'll have to check.

So used to Vancian.

>>96715941
>So used to Vancian.
I wonder if that would be nearly as popular as it is if DnD hadn't used it? Also, besides DnD and Dying Earth, what settings do it best?

>>96617229
Learning, and practicing, magic is like a science mixed with an art. Certain patterns and structures within shapes and words form a conduit for energy to flow through, and be given form. The more clearly defined the patterns and rituals, the more focused or powerful the effect. Incredibly powerful spells require Incredible precision and a lot of prep. You can't just snap your fingers and stop time. Of course, experienced battle mages can learn which parts are absolutely essential so they can short-cut some parts of an incantation, or only use the most key elements of a combination of runes.

Basically, it's a machine, and what you put in is what you get out. And there's a cost to it.

>>96625593
Which book precisely is this from? SauceNao gives me nothing.

>>96725182
Secrets of Magic for PF2e.

Imo, the magic system in the video game Arx Fatalis is the most enjoyable ever created. You combine series of runic sound/symbols and the right combination casts a spell. For example, "Create" + "Water" + "Missile" might shoot a ball of ice. The player is given limited knowledge of how it works and must discover the combinations themselves during gameplay. If you ported such a system to a TTRPG, you'd have a real gem.

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>>96617229
What can we do to make Vancian magic more interesting? My suggestion is making it so that spells are often stored in items.

>>96617229
It's nanobots mate.
Ancient gene-coded nanobots that only respond to those with a particular lineage.

They were brought here by people who fell from the sky like stars;
Errant demigods cast out of a war in heaven.

Their ancestors seeded the earth with dolmens that generate control fields, which link at their edges and form a sort of global wifi network.

Those who are descended from the star-race can sometimes learn to manipulate these nanobots, though are usually only capable of mastering a handful of their potentially limitless functions; this can manifest all sorts of effects, from remote combustion and levitation, to reanimating dead matter or translocation, to various psychological and physiological effects.

They don't call them nanobots though; Most of the setting's inhabitants subsist on a sort of deiselpunk cargo-cult level of development, and generally all but a highly secretive few consider these phenomena to be spiritual or magical in nature.

In terms of gameplay mechanics, it works like this;
I point at a guy, and I declare "This guy can throw fireballs" then I say how far, at what accuracy, and how much damage they do.

That's it.

This is more a skirmish game/light rpg hybrid though; has more in common with 1e warhammer than anything else, in that it is fundamentally a wargame, but with strong roleplaying elements.

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Intelligence based casting ONLY.
NO Charisma BS.

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>>96734360
Even for Warlocks? Why?

>>96735430
Tough shit. If you can't visualize the spell you can't make it reality.

D&D and it's consequences were a disaster for magic.

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>>96617229
>How do you prefer your magic
Gamable content the players can easily understand and I can easily adjudicate that still leaves room for the unknown and unexpected.
>how did you design
Took Wonder and Wickedness, rough vancian spells per day, added a push-your-luck roll under for casting over that number. Works well. The catastrophes are a bit much if you're not ready to have campaign altering shit sometimes.
I use the madlibs spell generation from Freebooters on the Frontier and Maze Rats to generate lists of themed spells for different magic opponents, keeps the spells from getting repetitive.
I've been sitting on the Book of Gaub for a colonial weird campaign for a while and wanting to build something a bit more ritual based around it but its a ways off.

>>96737870
How can we fix magic then?

>>96739239
Refocus on draft and get away from IPs.

>>96617229
>awshum!

Immediately disregarded.

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>>96739309
>Refocus on draft and get away from IPs.
Okay, can you go in a little more detail please? For instance, what works escaped the worst of the D&D taint?

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>>96739355
>Immediately disregarded.
So if it was just the first #1-3, you'd be fine with it?

>>96617229
I like mostly mundane but magic is ritualistic. It requires time, strange ingredients, and proper skill. Also fucking up is risky. But there is one caveate that makes it worth it. As you get more skilled you can tie the magical effects to items or store them for a instant effect.

>>96625593
It's fine for the setting but I like magic to be mysterious and not down to a science like it is in D&D sometimes.

>>96617229
Ask the worldbuilding general.

>>96618840
The anime (actually originally a novel) Shinsekai Yori uses this conception of magic. It kinda causes a lot of problems.

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>>96617229
What settings/game systems have the best approaches to magic and which have the worst approaches in your book, and why?

>G0T2K

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>>96743164
>The anime (actually originally a novel) Shinsekai Yori uses this conception of magic. It kinda causes a lot of problems.
What problems does it cause?

>>96748791
(note: the second paragraph is a bigger spoiler than the first)

It basically destroys any form of advanced civilization (destroyed, that is - the story takes place after civilization has already decayed) since knowledge is equivalent to ability, therefore nobody but a few can be given any sort of education. This resulted in extremely tyrannical dictatorships where the most knowledgeable person became a sort of god-emperor that routinely tortures and murders his subjects, sometimes for fun, but also to prevent anyone from learning anything. (Technically only a small portion of the population are psychics, but even if everyone was, the logic would only seem more apt).

Eventually a "scientist" faction overthrows them and solves the issue of tyrannical dictatorships by genetically modifying humans to be so empathetic that they literally die if they kill another human being. Of course, empathy is a very imprecise measure, so children undergo heavy mental conditioning to prevent any sort of negative emotions, and any that fail in their schooling are removed. On rare occasions, this is not enough and you'll get someone who doesn't have enough empathy (or is just delusional) and begins killing people, but since the effects of heightened empathy still applies to the killer, nobody has the capability to kill them.

I guess a lot of those problems come from the attempts to solve the underlying problem of 'knowledge = ability', rather than the power itself, but the fundamental problem

Oh yeah and because the powers are still restricted by the laws of physics, every thought that is used to manipulate the world needs some sort of mental force applied to it, and the physical law of "energy cannot be created or destroyed" means that those thoughts still exist afterwards and are slowly giving the world psychic cancer, though that's not really a major problem within the timeframe of the show.

>>96749154
>I guess a lot of those problems come from the attempts to solve the underlying problem of 'knowledge = ability', rather than the power itself, but the fundamental problem
Whoops, didn't end the sentence. "but the fundamental problem is difficult to ignore, and becomes impossible to ignore once anyone starts considering it a problem. Really, it has to be solved."

>>96619403
>>96617229
Nogames faggot.

>>96749173
Okay, how would you suggest solving the problem then, if the anime doesn’t really fix the root issue?

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>>96617229
Do you like psionics and traditional magic being in the same setting, or should they be incompatible? Not counting 5e as an example of course.

>>96756067
I'd let them be in the same setting. Why limit hammers because swords exist?

>>96617229
>Magic
Can do pretty much anything, however, if ANY other skill/trait/etc would be appropriate for a task, the check to use magic to accomplish that task instead will be an order of magnitude higher than it would be for just using the obvious skill/trait/etc.

In order to cast magic at its mundane effect? That's piss easy. Every single modification outside of that mundane effect raises the difficulty a level.

>Want to use a touch based fire spell
Piss easy
>Want to cast it from a distance
Easy
>Want to cast it against two targets
Average
>Want an AoE effect
Raise it two levels, one for each bolt
>Want the effect to linger (burning zone)
Raise it twice again, one for each bolt

Once you are in the average level of casting, a newbie has a high chance of failure. It's never outright impossible to do anything but so god damn unlikely it might as well be AND it's GM's choice exactly how shit goes sideways when you fuck up a spell.

Best thing about this kind of system? It gives the player ALL the rope. The only thing stopping them from hanging themselves, the rest of the party, the surrounding area, and most of the country is their own self-control.

>>96631371
Had an idea for a Shotgun Summoner once.
Take the end barrel of a shotgun and have the circle of a summoning spell inscribed on it and the shotgun fired slugs that had the sigils of the particular being you were summoning etched onto them. So you would fire and the moment the slug passed the barrel, the being was summoned. Flying forward at 1300 feet per second screaming at its target.

>>96756169
Okay, this is based. Like, 1000% based. Did you ever write anything up for it?

>>96617229
My settings magic ended up getting so complicated it needed me to make a wiki and give it a page. In short though,in the setting theres the physical plane - and the astral plane which invisibly overlaps it. In the astral plane, ideas take the form of a sort of mist, with denser concentrations of ideas becoming thicker and even changing states of matter in some cases.

Some ideas are more powerful than others, namely if they are attached to powerful entities (such as "nuclear bomb") or connect to many other ideas as a root (such as "destruction" tying to "death", "pain", "darkness", "purity", etc.) Magic of any kind is when you take ideas from the astral plane and actively use them for an effect.

Spells are large strings of ideas brought together, and are usually shortened verses of a larger prayer or poem. The poetry itself makes the phrasing easier to remember (poetry is meant to be spoken after all), and also allows for more subtle explanations of ideas to be said in fewer words by relying on the reader's understanding. You could theoretically detail every elemental step involved in making a fireball, but its a lot quicker and memorable to remember a bible verse than a 20-step cooking recipe without a book.

Souls are themselves collections of information (for example human, male, womanless, penniless, a10 eyes) detailing every detail about yourself. Your body creates lots of magical energy due to all the concepts in it, regardless of if youre aware of it or not. If you can awaken the chakras in your soul (through traumatic life experiences and/or personal growth), you can cast spells or temporarily remove them to use astral projection (a la jojo stands).

Or you can just ingest sentient hallucinogens that temporarily awaken your chakras to make deals with powerful magical entities and have them do stuff for you

>>96756169
Where did you get this idea? And how much damage did it do?

>>96696947
I agree, my focus items are just amplifiers. They let the mage channel more energy with less strain on themselves.

>>96617229
What are magic systems so bad that they make you want to tear your hair out because they’re so shit? get to dislike Harry Potter magic as I got older, as they make no real explanation of why magic responds to pseudo-Latin words, say that you apparently need magic to make potions despite what Snape said early on, etc.

>>96769144
Don't get me started on that. One of my biggest issues with it is things like how house elves can teleport even when Voldemort is the one who cast the spells against that kind of thing.

>>96767440
So it's basically the magical equivalent of a lever then?

>>96617229
>>96619403 (me)
OP, you're a nogames faggot.

>>96769144
>>96771510
Maybe it's unclear and often hypocritical because...it's magic?

>>96776593
Takes one to know one.

>>96769144
I vaguely remember one, but I can't remember where from because it was so shit that I tried to block it out.

>>96778330
Magic works best when it has SOME internal consistency, otherwise it's all questions like "why didn't they just use the eagles to get there".

>>96756067
Why do they have to be different things? Its obvious at this point even D&D no longer treats arcane and psionics as different. Rather, psionics is as different from arcane as primal is from divine

>>96778330
>5 hour bump
>inane question begging for engagement
>>96783215
>18 hour bump
>inane statement begging for engagement
>>96786284
>8 hour bump
>inane argument starter begging for engagement
here's the (You)s (you)'re so desperate for

>>96786308

don't tweet at me if you aren't contributing to the thread
thanx

>>96756095
True. Though swords seem a lot more popular than hammers.

>>96756067
I prefer psionics over traditional spells, DESU. Makes things easier to work into more modern settings.

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>>96617229
What are some ways to revitalize blood magic besides using it to control those who have ingested the mage's blood like picture related? And what settings/systems do blood magic well?

>>96617229
Based. We need more authors using this.

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>>96696947
My current favorite interpretation is that magic wands are required for any sort of spellcraft and having them removed from a Wizard's person means they just can't cast spells at all.

>B-But i don't want to be able to be disarmed!
That's the point. The limitations is what makes it fun.

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>>96696947

>>96617240
>he doesn't know about the magic system
Ngmi

>>96617229
>how did you design the system for your setting?
Pretty much my entire setting was built on aesthetics and then worldbuilt to justify those aesthetics. I wanted a setting where magic felt scarce and somewhat inherently sketchy so all magic requires specific, often esoteric and largely lost knowledge on how to perform it and requires a sacrifice of blood or salt to use. Mechanically I mostly just borrowed the psionics system from the system I'm running (Mekton Zeta) and refluffed it as magic while adjusting how powers are activated.

>>96807613
>he doesn't know about the magic system
NTA, but what's that now?

>>96811558
Some individuals are born able to tap into a vast pool of power by sheer chance, power they can use to change society at their whim. It is only others born with this same power that stand a chance of opposing them - and while some choose to use their power for good, ultimately it is the most unscrupulous who come out ahead, dividing the world up between them as they jockey for power.

We call these vast wells of power 'trust funds'.

>>96639955
What is the purpose of these? I was on /tg/ regularly years ago but my use of the board dwindled and now there's a ton of threads that are nothing but a stupid question and usually some shit art.

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>>96665285
Just because the magic has well defined rules, that doesnt make it become technology. Lets say that a setting's magic is powered by the stars and their positions in the sky. Obviously astrology and astronomy become a major aspect of the setting, but this doesn't mean that all magic is a predictable cut-and-dry science - either to us or to the setting's denizens. Magic would slowly change across the years, and the coming of a meteor shower or passing comet or asteroid could wildly and unexpectedly change magic in all sorts of ways.

In any case though, its also about perspective. Even when the metaphysics of magic are "solved" by the greatest scholars of a setting, that doesnt mean that we ourselves can truly understand it or appreciate it beyond marveling at pretty colors - as much as we'd like to imagine ourselves otherwise.

>>96617229
No systems, because they will write you into the corner.

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>>96617229
What are the best examples of magic systems based on Law vs Chaos besides Warhammer, and what do you advise when creating one such system?

>>96817435
Warhammer
Deferring to Warhammer

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>>96817637
>Deferring to Warhammer
Everyone here knows about it, don't they? Better to get it out of the way first.

>>96617229
I like the idea where you don't technically "possess" magic, you just express it through unlocking certain reagents or items.

Sort of like Soul Sacrifice.

>>96819506
You got the answer your question merited.

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>>96819749
Oh, you're saying that Warhammer is the only option? I thought that you were dissing me for mentioning it. So there's really no better system for Law and Chaos magics?

>>96821935
Amber Chronicles had Law/Chaos actually.

>>96821935
Yes
No

What are some magics?

What are some ideas for magic you like but would never ever use in a traditional game?

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>>96822832
>Amber Chronicles had Law/Chaos actually.
Thanks, I'll have to check it out. Looks like a big read though.

what are some books?

what books have magic in them?

>>96827678
True. There's also a game made after the setting (Zangband).

what are some magical rules?

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>>96617229
How would you rank your favorite magic systems?

What are some rankings?

>>96828433
>>96834410
>>96835457

Why do you do this?

I've fallen into the trap before, where I took your questions at face value and wrote entire posts full of my homebrew and shit, and you never actually interact with your answers.

To me, the real magic would be if you explained this.

>>96617229
My setting uses sweat-casting. Basically, the body doing processes that cool it down generates magic. Mages will cast heat magic on themselves to expedite the process, and try to burn their opponents (thereby melting their sweat glands and preventing them from being able to generate magic).
Someone in setting discovers shivering generates an anti-magic field, but it's only uses are defenses and ignoring things like barriers and magical sensors.
If I ever make it into a book, the main character will slit his wrists in the final fight, generating a shitload of antimagic, enough to tank a deadly enchantment that shivering alone couldn't overcome.

>>96835783
he has a dependent personality disorder and a pathological need to receive care and attention from others, (You)s on 4chan seem to satisfy the criteria

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>>96732578
Having pondered this for a while, a few ideas on it:
1. cut down and condense most spells into a few major categories where they thematically and mechanically fit.
2. What you can do with these spells depends on what level slots you attach them to and how many slots in that level you take up.
3. Present the option to use slots without spells attached to them in some way, shape, or form.
4. In regard to all magic, regardless of power source, make each "school" favor certain stats instead of PCs being locked into using certain stats by their class (i.e. wizards are not not just int-based, bards cha-based, etc)

>>96835457
From best to worst?

>96839849
Personally, I think that acting like everyone who asks a question is one person is detrimental to the board as a whole.

>>96841288
>I think that acting like everyone who asks a question is one person is detrimental to the board as a whole.
anyone who asks retarded surface level questions after bumping a dead thread in 12 hour cycles might as well be him

>>96841611
What are some types of posting that aren't detrimental to the board as a whole?

>>96617229
Sanderson didn't invent complex magic systems and I hate that people think he- or Robert Jordan did. China, Japan and India have have bigger magic systems for thousands of years of history in their mythology.
Sanderson and Jordans magic is literally isekai web novel slop tier.

What are some asians?

>>96842266
What does that have to do with magic systems?

>>96617229
black of course

>>96619796
>you do not have eyesight that good

yet the systemic implications mean it can be built toward, i mean we cannot see atomic bonds naturally, yet her we are with that knowledge and ability to build on and improve

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>>96617229
What are the best systems for rune magic and why?

What are some runes?

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>>96847056
>What are some runes?
Do you mean examples of runes? Here.

What are some examples?

What are some bumps?

>>96848256
Thanks for sharing. Some of these look very familiar…

What are some familiar posts that save the thread when it's about to slip off the catalogue?

>>96617229
not my system, there are seven players, seven grand wizards. At any time six must continue to cast a grand spell to keep the laws of the universe working and the remaining wizard can protect their tower from external threats, oh and they all have telepathy

When it is any player's turn to leave the ritual, the remaining six become a sort of 'Group GM'. Each are given one subsytem they have to run.

In universe, casting spells means the six wizards in the ritual manipulate the laws of reality.

out on the table, casting spells means all seven players work out how to change mechanics without causing a snowball effect that ends the world

for the life of me I CANT REMEMBER THE NAME

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>>96845848
Now you're thinking like a proper scourge upon reality.
Filch the visual acuity of a mantis shrimp.
Tug the durability of steel into your bones.
Tear the transparency from glass and make your anatomy see-through.
Get bored with the doldrum limitations of biology and transplant your immortal soul into a gigantic scorpion-shaped construct made of rotten driftwood and scrap metal until your psyche degenerates into an incoherent spiral of prehistoric malice and voracious hunger.

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>>96854140
>until your psyche degenerates into an incoherent spiral of prehistoric malice and voracious hunger.
NTA, but I'd like to avoid that part. I mean, what's the point of ascending past the limitations of the human form, magically or otherwise, if our minds go in the process?

>>96856105
Exactly! It’s like becoming a lich knowing that you’ll end up as a skull without trying to find a better solution.

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>>96847056
>>96848256
>>96852010

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>>96859197

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>>96617229
What’s the best way to have necromancy that isn’t inherently evil?

>>96860612
The GM states, for all the group of players to hear: "Necromancy is not inherently evil."
There. Done and done.

What are some alignments?

What are some unusual pairings?

>>96619854
lmao

>>96860612
>>96860714
>>96860720
Just givin' er huh?

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>>96856105
Its absolutely possible.
You're sure to have a long and prosperous career, provided you can suppress that little voice in the back of your head that constantly asks 'what if...?'.

>>96860612
Souls are nourished by life experience, growing over time.
They can bud off, with the buds growing into entirely new souls.
Children receive their souls through this general process.
Some desert hermit pursuing immortality developed a technique that allows him to intentionally split off a fragment of his soul and implant it into a specially prepared, mummified corpse - producing a stable, soulbearing undead that isn't inherently malevolent.
In fact, upon creation these undead are quite child-like, and take an extremely long time to mature as their undernourished souls grow slowly.
This is due to being corpses. They innately lack many of the senses with which the living experience the world.

>>96617229
I like Sanderson and I can understand why he thinks the way he does and has some success wtih it but I think it's the wrong way. The most 'magical' thing for me is always going to be something like when golem is revealed to have a role in the music of eru. The ability to make what should be something that ruins a piece, is a detriment, basically a Jar Jar Binks of characters into something that actually illuminates the whole, is the best magic I can think of. Knowing that Mage hand produces 5N of force on anyone of three axis is not.

>>96860612
>Necromancy is just corpse reanimation, without the baggage of negative energy/soul manipulation
or
>Necromancy is the (consensual) use of souls, like playing medium.

The main issues with necromancy in many settings are desecration of the dead, abuse of souls, and production of things that seek and destroy the living if not kept in check. You'd have trouble thinking of a form of necromancy that isn't the first of those, so toning down or eliminating the other two features is your remaining bet.

>>96618840
Only problem is Nuke is actually a comparatively pretty simple mechanical process to understand and conceptualize. It takes a bit of oomph, but the actual process to start a nuclear reaction is probably easier than even traditional ignition.

>>96863379
What the Hell am I looking at in this image? And does listening to that voice cause the downfall of a lot of magic users in your setting?

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>>96617229
Only women in my setting can cast spells. Men get psychic abilities instead. I was inspired by a webcomic whose name I cannot remember, it was ages ago.

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>>96689472

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>>96866971
> What am I looking at
Context.
The players are in a shrine dedicated to a mythologized folkhero.
There a lot of intrigue going on, several NPC factions active in the area, a real ominous cloak-and-dagger type simmering.
Suddenly, a bunch of asshats attack a noble pilgrim on the road just outside of the shrine.
This situation escalates into a siege, with a ton more hostiles showing up and the Players attempting to secure the Shrine.
One player dies during this process, its fine, it happens.
He prepares a new character and the GM spawns him in on the map edge.

This is a difficult position to be in, there are hostiles everywhere but our boy has a plan.
The first thing he does is extract and absorb the engrammatic personality, memory, and skills of the NPC retinue he spawned in with - to the abject horror of everyone.
Several hostile NPCs rushed what they perceived to be a starmad theurge.
They are too slow, the player draws a ward in the snow, invests a bunch of autonomy into his own shadow - the intent being to use it as a distraction - then, shadowless, he runs off to hide in a withered vineyard.
The shadow, now imbued willpower infinitely in *excess* of what it realistically should have *changes* - becoming 'Teeth, Shimmering'.
Watching its creator engage in magical guerilla warfare, the shadow does what comes naturally and starts imitating.
This shadow begins soulripping everyone who gets close, all the qualities of those stolen souls being incorporated into it, which causes it to further *exceed* beyond what it is.
At this point it breaks out of the ward containing it, and takes its first step as a ravenous, autonomous entity, becoming 'Teeth, Radiant'.
Long-story-short.
Teeth, Radiant went on a rampage, attacking friend and foe.
The player who created it traded his flesh and bone in exchange for 'ascending' into a living shadow.
Both were eventually detained, the former more unmercifully than the latter.

>>96875311
>Both were eventually detained, the former more unmercifully than the latter.
How were they detained?

>>96875311
What system does this all use?

>>96882613
he seems to be telling stories from games using this >>96619796
The guy who made it up and runs it seems autistic in all the coolest ways.

>>96737448
I do this but make it so my spellcasters have to be kinda retarded in an autistic serial killer way. They're soulless so the powers they wield are just whatever the universe can find shoved into that void. One of my players calls it dahmermancy and it stuck.

>>96735430
damn, that art sucks

>>96617229
What are some alternatives to the list OP provided?

>>96885877
what are some alternatives to these alternatives

>>96883654
>damn, that art sucks
What specifically is so bad about it?

>>96888658
what are some arts that don't suck

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I either run this or a system heavily inspired by it or hacked from it

>>96890230
what are some power words

>>96684656
You have to either be extremely reckless or roll terribly for it to get that far a lot of the time. The premise of Mage's magic system is that everyone technically can do magic as it's mainly based in belief and willpower, but the majority don't do so consciously.

For example, if an awakened Mage used magic to run inhumanly fast in view of a crowd of sleepers or something else that's obviously impossible, they'll suddenly find themselves pitting their will against a bunch of people going "Wait, that's not possible," which can lead to reality itself trying to correct your attempts to change it.

>>96841957
Primarch threads
Warhammer threads in general
>b-buh bu buh
Warhammer board.

Magic energy is stored in gemstones, so bejeweled weapons and equipment are highly prized because you can enchant them easily. This is something I throw into any given story

>>96890230
Is it in the Archive or should we ask the share thread?

>>96890250
Actually just common verbs and nouns. It's how they are organised and put together.
>>96895326
Ask the share thread as I cannot think of a common spot for it. I also made some house rules and limitations of you want to see them.

>>96895811
NTA, but I would love to see those house rules please, thanks.

>>96901084
>NTA, but I would love to see those house rules please, thanks.
Seconding this.

>>96617229
How do Sanderson’s magic systems actually rate in your book? I’m mainly familiar with Mistborn, and not by much, so I’m not certain. And is the new Stormlight RPG worth getting, in terms of the magic or otherwise?

>>96901084
>>96903431
I'll get it dropped. I'll take a bit to dust off the greentext and see if I want to make improvements to them. I have also poked around at AI prompts for tooling around the system, might add whatever is developed to my satisfaction.

>>96905286
When Sanderson talks about a 'hard' magic system, he means the powers of the main characters for a particular story work in a specific way and they can't magibabble their way out of a particular problem. Just like a whodunnit that "plays fair", the characters can only do stuff that the reader could have come up with as well. But how they work from a cosmological, worldbuilding perspective is still kind of arbitrary.
There's some background lore with the source of all magic being some soulstuff called 'investiture'. But there's no specific reason why investiture links certain kinds of metal to those specific abilities on the Mistborn world.
What I gather, the nerdy pursuit of learning everything about the Cosmere and the workings of the magic systems and attaining a sense of building expertise is supposed to be the whole appeal, so it's disappointing that there's such a gap there imo.

>>96906021
Much appreciated! We'll make sure the thread stays alive till then.

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>>96911289
>"""We"""
>implying you weren't going to drag this dead thread out for the next month by yourself anyway

>>96689472
Play a game, faggot.

>>96901084
>>96903431
>>96906021
>>96911289
Power Words Engine House Rules:

Q: Go on about this, please.
A: My only real house rule is that my players do not know all the words at the start (there are 1000+ in the book). They learn words as they go along, building new spells with the words they gain. My only way to control the madness.

Q: And how do they learn words besides seeing their enemies use them?
A: Three top ways outside of weird scenarios. I want the process to be slow or costly, as one new word can effectively interact with every other word the player knows.
>Countering or interacting with opponent spells that is not "just getting hit"). Not just seeing them.
>Finding old runes and spellbooks or studying leftover/lingering magical effects (a long-term study that preserves the object/place being studied).
>Breaking down magical scrolls, books, and artifacts. The quality of roll will tell you how many words are learned if there are multiple words ('quick and dirty' tear down).

Q: Any other ways to limit things?
A: Maybe limit access to certain spell domains OR force a specialized caster to need to use at least one word from a certain domain (their specialization) for each/most spells they make.
You could also take the dungeon world route and have casters 'forget' a word temporarily on a terrible roll, thus knocking out all the spells using that word.

For D&D 5E
1 -pg 26, Spell levels are equal to the number of words in that spell +1. This means cantrips are 1-worded, lv 1 spells have 2 words, lv 2 have 3 words, etc.. This is to have some level of spell complexity starting out.
2 - For wizards, they copy words into their spellbooks and then memorize spells for the day. When creating a character, they know 6 words at lv 1, then add 2 new words for each level gained @ creation. During play, new words are learned as Q&A above only.


I'm feeling creative, feel free to field questions, and I'd be happy to answer.

>>96617229
Again?
Fine.

Anybody can use magic. Tapping into it is piss easy. The problem is that backlash from fucking up making even a very mundane effect, like making a shield shine with light, varies wildly and is extremely random. Magic is unpredictable by its very nature and, while it's incredibly easy to access, forcing it to perform a consistent and predictable effect is like trying to kick water uphill. Anyone can attempt to make an exploding ball of fire, but the result for an untrained person making the attempt could be anything from making everyone in a one mile radius shit themselves to opening a hellgate to making it so humans never existed in the timeline all because your mental image of the ball of fire changed size by a fraction of an inch in your mind's eye while casting.

Wizard types exist but they mainly stick to very basic, VERY small, effects because anything more grandiose than filling a bottle of an exact size to an exact point of full is incredibly dicey.

The beings who do have magical abilities because they are born into magic (fairies, for example) do not ever go outside their wheelhouse when doing magical stuff. It isn't known if they lack the ability to or if they just have the sense to never try.

Alchemy and enchantments are pretty much the only "safe" form of magic because it is so regimented and precise, but even that shit can go sideways. Take that fireball from earlier. A wand or staff layered with a shit ton of intricate work can reliably fire off a fireball every time and the caster is basically acting like a bridge to channel magic from the environment through the item to produce the effect. Said wand gets married and the intricate inlays and markings get wrecked? Magic is gonna activate, but god only knows what the effect is gonna be.

So, yeah, magic is everywhere, but it's incredibly rare for anyone to use it.

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>>96913105
>(there are 1000+ in the book).
Okay, wow. Has anyone here created new words? Or at least have any advice for doing so?

>>96918316
Has anyone here created new words? Or at least have any advice for doing so?
I think it is more of a question of what existing words in the English language you want to add. Mainly, which Domain should it be added to?
A more exciting question would be: which new Domains can be created, and what words would they contain? The default domain setup is pretty tight, but totally open for modification or the creation of a whole new domain set.
Sorry for the non-answer

>>96912277
Or at least read a book.

Bumping

>>96890681
Maybe they should make a new board for that stuff.

>>96930518
I totally agree. How do we convince them though?

>>96930518
While we are at it, let's ask for a MGT board as well.
>>96937120
Strongly worded email? Maybe suggest sub /tg/ boards are smaller than standard (like 5 or 6 pages instead of 10), so mini containment boards.

>>96930518
>>96937120
>>96942070
you could just fuck off to your own 8ch board if all you want to do is samefag all day, but you're too much of an autistic retard to understand nobody else likes your ritual posting

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>>96617229
How visually spectacular do you like your magic to be? Also, please post magic user art.

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>>96942935
lolkfag

>>96944942
It should look awesome, yeah. What’s the point of magic otherwise?

>>96930518
>>96937120
>>96942070
nono, you're going the wrong way. There's already a schizo trying to force a 3.5pf general.
Next up is the general general.

>>96617229
You know, I never liked the idea of magic only being genetic. Especially if it somehow ‘doesn’t’ result in magic users ruling things. I mean, if nothing else royals and the nobility would want to get the ability into their bloodlines and seek out magic users as consorts. And if spells require expensive components the magic users would want royal backing.

>>96617229
How much can magic extend your lifespan before you have to become a lich or some other evil bullshit in your system?

Magic should be usable. If it has no rules, it's not part of a game.

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>>96617229
How dangerous is your magic to the user, on a scale of “safe as long as you don’t do something worth a Darwin Award” versus “daemons will eat your soul or you’ll explode if you make a mistake”?

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>>96617229
I like D&D interpretation of Vancian spellcasting, specially the prepared/spontaneous dichotomy as in 3e.
In the setting I've been writing, it's mostly like that, only that the very underlyings of magic are not well understood.
Under the current tradition, there are some basic building blocks that have been more or less scientifically understood in the last millennia or so (after a big cataclysm), and the more well trained (or talented) and experienced you are, the "larger" and "deeper" your mental palace gets, which gives you access to more complex building blocks of higher levels/strata.
These ideas of the building blocks, mental palaces, and strata, are just artificial constructs, think theoretical physics. Heuristics used to create a "safe" (safer, mostly) magic framework.
Most effects are short range, short lived, and have a small area of effect, although specialists that focus on are of effect do exist.
The very fundamentals of magic are still a mystery, and anybody with the requisite knowledge can try painting "outside of the lines" so to speak, but that usually ends really, really bad, so magic is pretty well regulated and controlled by the different societies of the setting, and for the most part, it's either academic or military, with some very minor uses in civil engineering, for the convenience of high nobility, and the like.
Dragons (and some other creatures) don't cast spell as much as they just do magic. It's as natural a thing as breathing or flying, so they don't have a formal framework at all and their magic, despite (seemingly) sharing the same underlying source and mechanics, looks and feels almost nothing like that of the "civilized" societies.
They don't cast a spell to try and tunnel to stone, they just ask the stone to make way, and it does. Same with living plant matter, earth, "raw" metal, and other elements of nature.
It's a little generic, but makes my brain feel good.

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>>96962980
Right. A couple more details that came to mind that I've had in my head for a while (and that I need to add to my docs).
The "crazy wizard in a tower doing dangerous experiments" phase is (mostly) over, save for some hermits at the very fringes of the continent. That ended almost 300 years ago as the current framework began taking shape.
There are a bunch of spells created in that era that bear the name of their creators, and that have since been deconstructed, better understood under the systematized lens, and made easier or safer to use (also, less powerful). So you might know the formula to cast a kinetic barrier that can stop a battering ram, but it only lingers for a second or two. The upside is that it no longer has the change of charring your hands or pulling all muscles in your hands and feet.
"Old magic" tends to come with a lot of damage to the extremities at the low end.

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>>96617229
In the context of a game magic has to be:
1. Powerful enough to have immediate benefits;
2. Costly enough that actually using it has to make the player weighting the pro and cons of relying to it;
3. Flavorful and somewhat subdle or situational: no zap zap beams and generic ass deflagrations;
4. Always flawed in some way, as in there's always a mundane way around it if you're smart enough to catch it. For example in ad&d 2e casting energy drain required to blow an eldritch black powder on the subject, the drawback in this case was that a sudden gust of wind could blow back the powder in the caster's face;
5. Tempting, as in instead of being discouraged by all its drawbacks the player must have some sort of underlying positive feedback reinforced by game mechanics in using magic as much as possible, for example the more you use magic the more powerful it gets (and the more dangerous it becomes).

>>96969323
All magic being a sort of hermeticism gives these things almost free.
1. It's as immediate and powerful as chemical reaction in a bomb. All of the world's magic is just really suped up and "convenient" chemistry.
2. The material and preparation makes one have to think what they create, and more mystical elements like using the essence of soul of things as ingredients really easily opens things for ontologically evil magics.
3. No beams here, but a lot of smoke.
4. Everything being mostly just material processes gives everything very mundane counters, or tells.
5. See the aforementioned usage of souls. Everyone who knows this magic can do these things, they just won't because that's wrong. Unless...

>>96617229
Dragon Quest had the right of it.
Just have some spells, some resource like mana, and that's it.
There's no need to complicate this shit.

>>96975164
But how is the spell acquisition, according to this uncomplicated principle?

>>96976370
Judging by how low effort that bait is, I'd wager he'll respond something like "you just get it when you level up".
Very diegetic framing.
Not.

>>96977358
I'm genuinely wondering what is the best dead simple way to do it. Mana and casting is obvious; spells cost some mana, you pay and the cast happens. Mana recharges at moderate pace.

But what are the limits in spell selection? Considering different spell costs.

>>96978040
A small, level gated, list of spells, I guess.
Not super interesting, but pretty simple.
Alternatively, you choose a couple of spells from a small fixed list.
Then as you get more mana or whatever, you can use more mana to cast the spell for other effects.

>>96617229
Well, I kinda used elder scrolls's system as a basis and have been adding things to it as I work on the script and lore for the story. The people in my setting are born with the capacity for magic but it has diminished in both intensity(as in the ability to channel very powerful incantations) and also in capacity( in both their ability to cast or channel for extended periods of time and their 'magic pool').

I have been thinking about an issue which I believe may help me with some plot devices later on and it has to do with the lets call them, magical-biological capacities divided by gender. My first draft made it so that males are generally built for wars of attrition so naturally they'd have a lower concentration/intensity mana which 'caps' them at a medium and low level incantations/spells/conjurations, however, they have a larger mana pool, which allows them to use magics for extended periods of time, as for example would be the case during very drawn out skirmishes or even larger scale battles.

Then on the females case, they have the highest concentration/intensity mana, which makes the figure of the sorceress incredibly powerful and sought after as they can use the strongest magics and just end conflicts in a heartbeat with the downside or rather balancing rule, that they are the brittlest of glass cannons as their mana pools are limited to 1 or 2 very powerful magics a day or sometimes a week, depending on how strong the spell or incant. All of this works for me as it is but then I think about females larger pain threshold irl, and the opposite makes more sense as in attrition=pregnancy=better suited for longer conflict.

Also the magic usage is also tolling on a physical level so its the type of mechanic where itd drain both mana and stamina in a game for example. I wanted to avoid making magic an equalizer between genders, so males are still physically superior as a general rule but females are magically superior, if that makes sense.

>>96617229
Magic is basically the manipulation plane-shifted electricity. It works by taking advantage of the spiritual energy that exists in the world and forces it through channels and pathways to give it form, and thus, specific outcimes and substances. Because magic is spiritual these pathways must be created in the form of scars carved into living flesh. These scars tend to be done as tattoos for easy readability.

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>>96986387
How did people discover magic if it requires special scars/tattoos?

>>96617238
I have.

>>96617229
How powerful can a magic user get in your world?

>>96989862
Tingly feelings in regular scars led to investigations maybe?

There a is phantom, mutable property of matter, akin to mass. Comprised of the semantic notions of the matter in question. Conscious manipulation of these properties, from multiple angles, is magic.
The self, the world, the law, anything within conscious perception has some means to be manipulated. Theurges have an easier time manipulating concepts familiar to their mother tongue. Induction or dedication into some tradition, or having the conviction to start one yourself, also influences how these concepts manifest.
If the person isn't skilled enough to make their assertions real, it just doesnt happen. There aren't dangerous magics, just irresponsible people.
Gods are semantic beings, but they are able to manipulate notions far more freely. This is mostly measures of degree, not kind. Mortals can attain that kind of mastery, but it's exceedingly rare and usually those people end up becoming Gods anyway once their legend gets away from them.

>>96999918
So basically someone coincidentally got scarred in the right way, and then expanded on the discovery?

>>96617229
We need more settings where effectively everyone knows at least a few spells. The only ones I can think of ATM are Black Clover and Mashle.

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>>96617229
How does your magic affect the physiology of the users?

>>97003308
Okay, details please! What system does this use?

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>>96962457
Going to far means trying to hyper improve your ability to use a certain kind of magic to an insane degree.

Your physical nature is indicative of your spiritual nature and since Humans are fairly neutral in that aspect they have to modify their bodies to eek out every bit of Mana they can to compete with the Created Ones.

For instance, the act of flying is channeling telekinesis into your wings as observed by several bird races and dragons. A Human doing this would take the step of having a Core suit that features wings. A really dedicated individual would have them surgically grafted to their body.

>>97015790
Currently making it, in tandem with the world and its rules.

The world has an abstracting layer of its own in a boring scheme I'm likely to throw out, like an Akashic Record. The ideosphere is the formulation of all matter in this universe, things start first from their notional components and "condense" into physical reality depending on the "mass" of notions collected on a piece of matter. Like iron, is wrought into iron in this world first by existing as a loose collection of the traits of iron, collecting together randomly, and "falling out of solution."
Magicians do magic by spinning the "atomic" traits off one thing and implanting it into another, destroying it, or transmuting form, material, character, energy, whatever, based on the practice.
Monsters can get infected by wayward notions, most are chimerae or folklore animals.
Language wires your brain to perceive magical things and believe certain things more easily. Being multilingual is a rarity, but many speak a common trading pidgin or religious parlance that encodes magical traits. Saying salutations and farewells is literally blessing people.
Gods are ideoforms, usually heroic characters, who maintain some awareness of themselves as entities.
Promises and vows have a way of reinforcing the "vector" of this astral component, supplying the reason for why rituals, chants, dances, martial arts, signs and symbols produce magic, they're a "motivator" for the condensing of preferred notions that inform the flavors of cults and arts. Breaking these results in losing the ability to perform that feat of magic until you pay some abstract penance related to it.
Condense violence via a chant, make your fingertip lethal. You must always fight to kill. If you ever leave anyone alive, you must kill yourself.
That kinda thing. It's very loose.

>>96821935
You could check out Stormbringer and it's successor Elric! too. But it's more of chaos=magic and order=tech and there are elemental lords and ancient beast lords in there too. Also in Strombringer at the least (didn't play Elric!) you'd have to be a Melnibonean or from Pang-Tang to use chaos magic iirc. So mostly not what you're looking for ig.

>>97019313
Well, thanks anyway. I’ll take a look.

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>>97018791
What are some other examples of these consequences, especially less lethal ones?

>>97031583
For powers and abilities I want players to use freely, relatively minor impositions on their time and resources. Like the equivalent of throwing salt over ones shoulder up to fasting for a month. A ritual that banishes bad spirits or restores some alchemical reagent or levels a karmic balance, whatever.
For stuff that potentially outright solves game challenges, extremes like the other example.
They are, broadly, syncretized from imagery from real life most of the time, or are just blunt rules meant to guide the improv at the table.
Another example:
For a power that allows a wayfinder to use their ability to lie and gaslight to reach their destination, so long as they have never looked at a map to it nor received directions. They must insist they know where they're going, even if they fail in checks to reach it through overland travel. They may not willingly acquire secondhand knowledge of the location.
For a penance if they break that, they need to be guided somewhere they haven't been without being told where they're going.

>>96617229
I am bored of most renditions of pre-industrial fantasy and magic in general, so I made a setting that was tilted to martials and early 20th century warfare. Magic is around, but it's limited in scope to either elemental magic, which is uncomplicated and (mostly) destructive, and sorcery, which is more spirit-focused and can severely bully magicians and some types of physical combatants, but is limited by the fact that it only weakly interacts with inanimate objects, so sorcerers get bullied by steel and machines. Lastly, there's invoking the power of a god, but this is limited by your standing with and importance to them, as well as the god's particular domain. Using arcane or physical techniques puts stress on the body in a manner not mechanically dissimilar to how battletech handles heat, only instead of shutting down you start hurting yourself when you exceed the safe limit, up to the point of catastrophic failure. That's about the gist of it.

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>>97032745
>elemental magic, which is uncomplicated and (mostly) destructive
I'd love to hear more about this, and elemental magic specifically. What system does it use?

>>97037648
I haven't thought that far, since I mostly put the setting together while my hands are occupied at work. That being said, the elemental magic uses 7 elements, fire, water, air, earth, metal, mana, and aether. Each of these can be found present in the world to varying degrees rather than being pulled from a plain, and they all handle differently with ups and downs to investing in each. The mechanics of it in-setting are that elemental essence is pulled into the body during the initial phase of casting, then formulated into a spell matrix outside the body, and then released or fired at the target. Arcane stress built up is determined by the strength and complexity of the spell, which can be mitigated by improving conductivity and skill respectively. Anyone can learn magic enough to be at least mediocre at it (with some races learning and using it easier than others) but not everyone will master it enough to be genuinely terrifying at using it. Due to military and civil interest in utilizing it, there's a fair few magicians floating around in society and it's viewed as a fairly blue-collar pursuit compared to sorcery. Machines cannot use magic and technology on par with the modern day would actually be damaged by certain elements being harnessed near it. Lastly, I'm not a big fan of instant death spells, so a rule of magic is that essence "in use" by another spell can't be harnessed by an outside source. The oldest and longest running spell anyone learns about is the homeostatic field maintained by the body specifically to guard against internal fluctuations in elements.

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>>97039484
>7 elements, fire, water, air, earth, metal, mana, and aether.
Why those specific elements? And how do the different races rate in terms of magical ability?

>>97044214
The short answer is because I think 6 of them are cool and one of them is essential to how the setting works. The long answer is because each one is good at different things and presents different trade-offs and advantages to learning to use them. Fire, water, earth, metal, air, and aether are all ambient elements that exist naturally in nature, with aether being essentially an analog for radiation and exotic particles (it is the hardest one to use as such). Mana is generated exclusively by living things, and is used to power muscle and provide extra biological features that make the locals more able-bodied and difficult to kill when adrenalized, which martials can train to exploit further. When casters use mana, it's typically for healing, and learning how to wield it as a caster doesn't really transfer over to learning martial techniques and vice versa.
The races all vary slightly, but for brevity can generally fall into three categories. Physically adept races have greater difficulty becoming casters, magic-oriented races like humans wield it easily but have a tougher time keeping up with the former physically in the categories they excel at, and a couple or so races are very magically able but attuned to one element which makes learning the others more difficult for them, causing them to often specialize or forego learning magic altogether.

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>>97044908
What are the races particularly attuned to specific elements? And what is the in-setting reason for that attunement?

>>97049691
The two most prominent races are dwarves and a race of otter people (kemonomimi). Dwarves are attuned to earth and metal, while the latter people are attuned to water. In the case of the former, they were made by a god, so their attunement is artificial. For the latter, otters already have an attunement to water to take advantage of living near it, and emerging "naturally" from said animals, they retain a stronger form of that same attunement.

>>97050291
So Dwarves were made by a god but the other races weren’t? How many of each race can be counted as proper mages, BTW?

>>97059042
A fair few of the most prominent races were made by gods, such as humans and elves, though not by the same set. Some races emerge "naturally" from animals as monsters due to setting mechanics and were lucky enough to form the numbers necessary to achieve stable cultures.
Approximate numbers vary, but I would say about ~1 in 15-10 or so could be considered magicians in the most magically adept races. The military tends to concentrate this number, with there generally being 1 magician for every 4-8 regular infantry depending on race.

>>97062324
How does magic affect military operations then? In direct combat or otherwise.

>>97065699
The military generally favors fire and earth magic, as these are the most practical for their needs. Water and air were once very prominent in the navy, but now it's mostly down to water, as flash-freezing flooding compartments is used as a last-ditch form of damage control.
For land, warmages tend to be either specialized, with earth specialists being so vital they have their own term (earthmovers), or specialized in two elements, occasionally more, who are simply called multi-mages. Multi-mages tend to be used by units that need maximum flexibility relative to their number, and are often used by less magically adept races that can't train as many specialists.
Earth magic is the most important to have at your disposal since they can creare entrenchments and cover in minutes or seconds, as opposed to hours, and keep things fluid by allowing soldiers to push toward the enemy position with as minimal exposure as possible. Fire mages are used for medium to short range suppression of the enemy, either as a mediocre but supply-independent anti-armor asset, or by just vomiting flame and explosive bolts everywhere to menace infantry and light armor. A fire mage is only as good as a light AT gun, but they can reposition and take shots far faster, with no concern for ammo.

>>97066073
>Water and air were once very prominent in the navy, but now it's mostly down to water, as flash-freezing flooding compartments is used as a last-ditch form of damage control.
What led to the decline of air magic in the navy, just moving away from sailed ships?

>>97068633
Yup. The decline in boarding being a frequent occurrence also contributed.

>>97069392
I can see that. How else is magic used in the navy? Happy Thanksgiving BTW!

>>96617229
What would you do for magic based on holidays, maybe limited to the date one is born? Like maybe a cornucopia spell for Thanksgiving, etc.?

>>97072450
Thank you!
For the most part, there's fairly conventional magicians in the marines if a navy has the equivalent, but otherwise the most you might see is some very specialized fire/air mages hanging out in the machineshop of a ship to aid in repair work.

>>97075844
Any new major developments with this, BTW? Because I'd love to play this sometime!

>>97079339
Not really, but I'm glad you like what you've read. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, it's something I build while I have time to think at work. While I have a lot of things developed here or there in terms of lore or concepts, the things that could actually make a coherent game still need iterating and work, which is gonna take a while longer, I think.

>>97081580
Fair enough. Since this thread won't last much longer, where should we look for more information on this afterwards?

>>97082838
Right now? Nowhere. I've been very tight-lipped about things until recently. I haven't wanted to vomit out text into the internet until I had something visual to show for it. I may pop into a vague thread like this here or there down the road, and when I have made the desired illustrations, those'll probably live on pixiv or some such, and be posted here if/when the topic fits, hopefully sooner than later.

>>97083632
Fair enough. Is there anything else you can say about the system that makes it stand out from the top of your head?

>>97086532
Spell lattices are three-dimensional and physical. there always needs to be some sort of air gap between the caster and the target. Direct funneling of essence into the target is possible with advanced grasping of magic, but is mutually damaging and not really worth it. Melee combatants can slice through a spell latice and disrupt it, causing it to fizzle and need to be recast if the disruption was severe enough, and sometimes results in the spell going off point blank, which is typically undesirable if the spell was explosive in nature, which it often is.

>>96617229
What is the best magic system you’ve ever seen in an existing setting, what made it that way, and what did you steal for your own system from it?

>>96618700
how does the power of friendship tie into this?

>>96860612
have it be like beekeeping except with souls

>>97094293
>have it be like beekeeping except with souls
How does that work?