How do you prefer your magic, and how did you design the system for your setting?
It would be magic if OP actually replies to a post in his own theead
Nonexistent.I used real life.
1. there is a cost2. anything that people "know" about magic only aids in the confidence of the user rather than being actual fact, ie if some grand wizard tells you the "magic words" for conjuring a fireball, you believe him because he can do it, but there isn't some code to the universe that makes a fireball, it's just that you think/will it hard enough. Basically you have to believe in yourself :)
OK, I had an idea for a magic system, where magic is some kind of force that can affect matter and interacts with human thought, but the user has to know exactly what they're doing. You can't just say some magic words to make a fireball appear, you have to know about how air molecules contain hydrogen and oxygen atoms, which can be flammable and be able to visualize the strands of magic intertwining with your nerves pulling them apart and then have some way of igniting them. Also there'd probably need to be things the caster would have to do to make themselves more receptive to the magic energy like using certain drugs and/or mental conditioning rituals to induce a heightened state of concentration. Maybe there could be shortcuts like artifacts such as paper talismans or crystals that could have certain spells pre-loaded onto them like computer programs so the yser just needs to will them to activate under the right conditions.
>>96618840>take a shit ton of peyote>you're tripping out so fucking hard you think you can see molecular compositions of objects, air, EVERYTHING - you just need to squint>The player will never know how close they came to nuking half the regionSounds pretty cool, honestly.
>>96617229I have a magic system I been messing with that more than just one "system." You have the classic mages and arcane system. Then those who are granted power from gods, devils, fey, etc. Those who have their own "power" etc. Think a Nen like system.
>>96617229I'm going to come back to this thread in three weeks and call you a nogames faggot.
I prefer magic to actually be supernatural or unnatural, and not just something that can get automated with machines. Something that can be used, but will never be understood beyond its surface-level traits like costs, effects and consequences.I have designed multiple systems for multiple settings, sometimes more than one system in a setting.
>>96617229Not my system, it was created by a quest native for his fantastic skirmish games.If any of this interests you, you can observe the system in action here:>https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2024/6108817/
>>96617229Sorcery is based in flexion of the soul, the contours of your own spirit and pulse of energy providing the final result: magical waveforms emanating from the spirit engaging in destructive and constructive interference. The reason magic isn't systematically studied is because its a spiritual process far more than a mental one, each individual needing to learn the contours of their own spirit to achieve some end. To give a comparison, you can study health and muscle development all day long, but no degree of theory will make you spontaneously manifest a fit body; further, the individual peculiarities of each body means that the most effective health plan is tailored to the individual, not a one-size-fits-all package.Necromancy is similar, but pulls on the invisible cords binding souls together. Necromancy is similarly deeply personal, because manipulation of another's soul requires an understanding of what ties you together, and what you can use to influence them. As such, necromancy is typically practiced to call on the spirits of family members for support and advice, and not the endless horde of the damned you see in other settings.
>>96619403You think this thread will last three weeks?
>>96617229Magic for mortals is entirely done through rituals which require lengthy preparations and precise hours which the rituals can be preformed. It modifies reality in some way when executed which usually persists until the laws of the universe naturally correct themselves, although the mundane effects that were a consequence of it continue to be.Most of the rituals are wild and have effects beyond what the practitioner intends. Very small changes in the ritual, such as uttering the phrases too fast or too slowly or mispronouncing them, being half a minute off in either direction, the phases of the moon, or other changes can modify the outcome and cause different side effects. A lot of the time, rituals can be fatal for their practitioners, such as one attempting to change lead to gold instead changing flesh to water.Typically, rituals are known by covens, which all have their own unique way of doing them discovered through trial and error and they typically don't experiment too often due to the danger involved. As such, you can find things like two different groups who know how to create a portal to link two places for a time, but the first group requires it to be done on a new moon before sunrise utilizing crushed pearls in a ring pattern on stone while the other just needs it to be night and can suffice with chalk drawings--there's probably better ways to do any of these particular rituals, but the cost of figuring it out is so great most people just stick with what they know.
>>96619854This is a bumpfag thread, so unless one of the spammers who hate him show up and -1 it to death, it stands a decent chance of lasting that long on this sad husk of a board.
>>96620164I'm not denying that trash threads get made, but what's the reasoning behind it? Do they really choke out organic ones?
>>96618840I've never seen physics knowledge required for magic but in Gate it can make the magic you already have a lot stronger
>>96620164>-1 it to deathThat doesn't work too well, given that he usually shits out another thread immediately after one of his dies.
>>96619796so what does tis mean practically speaking?what are 'qualities and values' exactly?how does this all work mechanically?is there some formula that tells you how much fire/earth/whatever you can move per action?how can spell casting be limited to what you can sense, but also be moving around abstract concepts like hate?
>>96620436>so what does tis mean practically speaking?Sorry, I don't really understand the question.Its a player-side primer designed to give players a general sense for how the magic system works.> what are 'qualities and values' exactly?The values being mentioned there are qualities or characteristics of a target object/entity (otherwise referred to as a Source) which can be quantified numerically.To my understanding, almost everything in the gamespace breaks down into points of stuff.So a campfire might consist of 12 points of heat and 8 points of light.A player who stepped into said campfire might gain 3 points of pain and shock for their inattention.Somebody standing nearby who got smacked in the face by the burning player's warhammer while they were flailing about, might take 1 point of wounds and 5 points of bruising.All of these values can be pushed and pulled around through Icontheurgical Animancy.>how does this all work mechanically?Only the GM knows the nitty-gritty of everything.If you're more specific I might be able to answer though.>is there some formula that tells you how much fire/earth/whatever you can move per action?Yeah! Pretty much.I believe it is based off of margin of success. Roll-under system.So you state the intention of your action, roll 3d6, and however much you go under the target number (ThresholdStat+IconotheurgySkill-ComplicatingFactors) is how much stuff your action influences.>how can spell casting be limited to what you can sense, but also be moving around abstract concepts like hate?I believe the key there is in the word 'sense'.In essence, the criteria for using magic is that you are aware of the target value and comprehend it.Most people can pick up on somebody's hatred and can intuit it, so they'd be able to magically interface with it.Though manipulating abstracts is easier to do in yourself than others, since you are personally experiencing them and presumably aren't resisting.
Magic as a brand, or a trademark, that comes across something even more bizarre and fantastical, and the shareholders and labellers are freaking out. “Our shit isn’t as magical as the other shit! Noooo!”.
>>96617229Omnipotent "magic" ( if you define magic as anything not possible irl) is fine with me, as long as the subdivisions of magic are defined in what they can/can't do, under what conditions, and the general sphere of influence.Magic in most anime in garbage.Magic in MtG is cool.4e's power source is cool.
I like weaving as a style. Seemed fun, though easy to break so I'd never play a game with it. My setting uses two kinds, the one being just straight gifts from gods. Those are fairly self explanatory. The other is ancient technology powered by magic batteries. Lots of golems, guns, grenades, etc. and permanent buffs from god tattoos. Most of it is fairly specific application, but has roleplay opportunities.
>>96617229Narrative weight. Most wizards believe that the worlds is filled with spirits and people who manage to entertain them have more weight and power when it comes to magic. Thus a wizard can easily burn a tree, a person, or even a stone house if they aren't really relevant to any current stories unfolding within the world. But if said wizard tries to burn the Dark Lord leading an Army of the Night? Fireball will just break on his armor into harmless embers. The more important the person the better is their magic resistance and also their ability to enact magic if they have the knowledge to do so. Doing magic actually saps your power until you do something else noteworthy either without magic or with minimal applications of it. Thus most experienced wizards use magic either when it is absolutely needed or indirectly by affecting things that do not have much weight of their own - creating and camouflaging a spiked pit in advance is way easier that trying to create it directly under a marching army for example.
why would there be a system specifically for magic?
>>96623738utterly retarded lol
>>96623738You can avoid the internal inconsistencies with this system by using the original Polynesian concept of Mana. It's basically a combination of plot armor + power level that is gained by succeeding in important/influential things and lost by losing in important/influential things.If you want to make it more gamey, I'd make it an in-universe resource that can be actively spent to do magic/miracles/feats as well.
Honestly, I just really like D&Ds (and more specifically Pathfinder's version) Vancian style spells and slots (and rituals). It just works and feels good.Fail at casting a spell? It's just nothing. No warp silliness, no blood cost, no problems, just a fizzling nothing.Want to cast all day? You're stuck with the weakest spells possible, little blasts of elemental power or little more than tricks.Want big magic? Rituals! The community blessing crops every year to increase growth and counter blight? A giant Plant Growth ritual. Its works really well to give the world magic, and you can throw little nuggets of fun at players without needing to worry about unintended effects from overcomplicated rules.People always want to overcomplicate it, write lots of rules and weird lore for magic but at the end of the day most of them are shit, overcomplicated nonsense, and often turn out more fun to read than to actually play (and arent all that fun to read in the first place).
>>96617229I like to have different kinds of magic, and characters have backgrounds in them, so they can argue about the nuances and lifestyles they have. It encourages roleplaying.
>>96625578trash
>>96625593it definitely doesn't work and doesn't feel good.
>B/X hack>roll save vs spells to keep spell>spells are slave spirits that want to escape service>spells are songs 6 seconds long per level>1 minute round, 6 second segments AD&D 1e>the spirit is coerced to act according to song lyrics, magic words essentially>magic user spell-casting song can be interrupted
>>96619796Shit man, this looks kind of sick.Is it open for anyone to join, or is it pay-to-play?
>>96628038>Spells are demons bound so you have to trap them.Really nice.
>>96626176It works, that's why it's been held onto for half a century. It feeling good is case by case thing.
>>96628395> Is it open for anyone to join, or is it pay-to-play?Uh, no. There's no buy-in or weird pesudo-job interview required to join up. These skirmishes are open to the public, and anybody is welcome to partake.The only catch is that GM leads a rather busy life - which results in these games only popping up every once in a blue moon.
>>96617229Magic comes from the Aether, a sort of higher dimentional energy plane. Sorcerers are people who can perceive & direct the Aetheric energies. When doing so, the human mind & body acts as a filter. Spells give the energy shape. No super fantastical powers, mostly it's just energy manipulation or telemetrics. Fireballs, lightning bolts, illusions, etc. There are also creatures which live in the Aether. People call them spirits & they are rarely friendly or benign.
>>96634121What’s the best way to be ready for them?
>>96620203>Do they really choke out organic ones?Yes, never bump garbage like this. Notice the random incomplete thoughts and lack of real discussion? That means this thread is fake and ghey.
>>96639791The best way would probably be to join the skirmish discord channel.> https://discord.gg/m4Hemqu6Its usually pretty dead unless somebody is running something or workshopping something they plan to run.If you don't want to get involved with discord, then occasionally checking /qst/ should do the trick.Games tend to last between 2 weeks to a month, so it isn't likely that you'd miss one while actively monitoring for them.
Magic must be backed by a 'way' in order to be effective and the strength of the magic is determined by the conviction of the user and how close that 'way' is to the Truth.For example, if you want to create a protective spell, you should care about what it is you're protecting and the spell's power will be proportional to your love and how much that love matters in reality. If you're focused solely on denying an enemies attack, then the spell will be less effective and might actually empower the opponent because you're giving more reality to their 'way' which is attacking you.This gives a lot more substance to things like Vampires who have a 'way' of being enigmatic monsters who suck the life of the world and can only be killed under very specific means. Ultimately the reason they're defeated isn't because they opened themselves with explicit weaknesses, but because their desire is purely selfish and degenerate, whereas someone with a heroic heart ignores those desires and believes in principles beyond their own gratification. Thus, the heroes magic is stronger because it's very existence rejects the vampire's being outright.I used to be really about systematic and rules based magic, but as I've grown older, I've come to realize how much of our thinking is abstract, built on analogy, and how much of a role faith actually plays. Ironically, Faith might actually be the most principled thing in existence, because post-enlightenment science doesn't concern itself with the fourth cause and is inherently nihilistic. Magic then should be based on the fourth cause and works it's way down. You might not be able to resurrect your dead wife because of how much meaning her life had while the necromancer can easily animate her bones because he needs a servant to build his monuments, however if you craft a golem and infuse it with all the love and meaning her life had, then it would outclass just about anything the necromancer could create.
>>96643310An important distinction to draw is that this isn't simply:>If believe it, you can do it.The world exists and many things can be viewed to be consistent, such as death, the change of seasons, gravitation, etc. So you wouldn't be able to just suddenly throw the seasons into disarray or reverse gravity by developing a mental disorder or every drunk and mental asylum patient would be a demi-god.The belief must be in principle, which is an abstraction of the Truth, and the magic must flow from that principle. This is hard for some RPG players to understand because they want to do cool spells like Flying, Power Word: Death, Raise Dead, and they don't care too much about how they thematically do it. But a veteran player knows that there's a big difference between Flying because you're being carried by forest spirits and Flying because you're utilizing your 'mana', both can be disrupted or enhanced in various ways. The Forest Spirits carry you because you caught their fancy, if you use their magic in a simple way, they might just drop you because they're bored, which is substantially more interesting then:>I can fly because I believe I canWhat's more, if someone believes in a principle like 'might makes right' only because they've been a boorish opportunistic warrior all their life and casts lightning, then they'll be easily defeated by someone who believes 'fire is the breath of life' and has used their fire magic to cook food, do controlled burns, and forge tools because the fire mages principles are more grounded in Truth and thus their spells will be more powerful. A warlord who's conquered many empires, been to all kinds of places, defeated many enemies, and believes in the 'Primordial Truth' would be a much more powerful adversary though. This isn't to say having Faith is pointless though, since without Faith in principle you'd just have nihilism and the world would be inert.
Depends if you are asking about how people in the world manage magic or if you mean a more philosophical worldbuilding level. Spellcasting all stems from deeper metaphysical paradigms ways of understanding and interacting with reality. Mortals don’t "create" magic. They tap into or imitate the true workings of older, deeper forces.Like electromagnetism is a thing that exists in our world that we then figured out how to use for things; Magic(capital M) is just a thing that is in their world. Mortal Spellcasting (Common Magic)This is what most morals use. spellcasters use: wizard spells, cleric invocations, sorcerer bloodlines, etc. It’s functional, broad, and flexible—but ultimately *incomplete*. Mortal magic is a diluted synthesis of deeper principles. It mimics higher truths through symbols, gestures, and incantations.True MagicOther beings can go beyond merely casting magic and are more deeply connected to it. Things like the Fae, demons, or gods, don't *do* magic, they just are that way. Each paradigm, or order of creatures, governs a different logic—what magic is, how it works, and what it costs. Mortals typically borrow bits from many, but true power comes from deep alignment with one. Mastery of a paradigm may unlock exclusive high-level abilities, or change how spells behave entirely for Mages that study them in great detail, but they will also introduce limits inherent to the logic of those paradigms.
>>96617229magic mishapsLOTS of magic mishaps
>>96625178For inputs and outputs.
>>96619854bump
>>96656133lmaoNNJXYA
>>96617229A characters magic is determined by his magic stat. The higher the stat, the better he is at doing magic
>>96661260How does one raise said stat, study? Using magic regularly? Something else?
>>96617229These are good writing tips, I don't know why people hate them.
>>96665081If you want hard, well-defined magic, then why not just write sci-fi?
>>96665096I'm always amazed by /tg/'s stupidity, it's amazing. This comment is so illogical that I can't believe it.
>>96665096Poorly understood magic makes for generally bad writing, unless the protag doesn't interact with it intimately.Conan is a perfect example of this. Conan does not know, understand, or want to understand magic, outside the hedge magic he picked up traveling, so it's workings are not explained.It's users in the story clearly understand what they are doing.On the other side of it, the Acts of Caine series shows magic when viewed by practitioners, and by those who are not.
>>96665263Magic should be mystical. If it has well-defined rules, it's not magic.
>>96665285According to what universal definition?The only thing I heard is that anything not understood may as well be magic, not the other way around.
>>96665263>>96665301This
>>96665018Leveling up.Retard!
>>96665285>uses chalk to inscribe an intricate seal into the ground implore the will of the greater spirits into banning you from life
>>9661722990% of all magic has to be accomplished by touch, you can't use a proxy to affect a person.Touching them opens you up to be affected by the individual you are touching.Forcing mind control can potentially break the victims mind forcing you to micromanage control of their body.Reading people's minds comes with the risk of losing your own personality.Certain abilities only come about after you die (i.e. your heart beat stops) and it's the only way to allow you to communicate with Mind/Souls
>>96619796Much appreciated. There should be more anons like that.
>>96617229>How do you prefer your magicModular, with each variant focusing on different execution but all using the same magic source.
>>96634603>Sorcerers are people who can perceive & direct the Aetheric energies.What determines who can become a sorcerer, is it genetic, something that can be learned, or random? And can spirits be controlled/directed at all?
>>96617229never found a better system than mage, you can do pretty much anything, but if a player try to abuse it you can erase him from reality
>>96642190NTA, but thanks for the link.
>>96617229Checking your Skill Rating and rolling for it.
>>96677442>but if a player try to abuse it you can erase him from realityThat seems a little... extreme.
>>96617229Hey, how does /tg/ feel about elemental magic systems? And what are some settings and/or game systems with great takes on elemental magic, or resources for creating them? I recently discovered the webcomic Aurora, where the world is formed from the remains of six elemental Primordials, and elemental magic works by channeling the essence of their souls, the titular auroras/elemental winds, back into the physical substance of their bodies through a link in the soul of the mage, for instance.
>>96685787how do they handle nails?
>>96685251>>96685787>>96685923>>96685968>>96685997kill yourself bumpfag
>>96684656because it is, in reality it's a point system depending on the particularities of the spell, and to get enough points to leave reality you would need to do the worst type of magic more than a couple of times
>>96685787If card games are an option, Chaotic has a focus on which element(s) a creature can use. You ever heard of it? There was even a cartoon.
>>96626169>trashWhat specifically is wrong with it?
>This
>>96617229Do you prefer magic systems that anyone can learn, or ones that you need bloodline access to use, and why? I prefer a mix, due to the issues of classism the latter can cause, anyone can theoretically learn magic, but some lines have a greater affinity to certain branches of spellcasting.
>>96691388Kill yourself.
>>96685826Lmao
>>96617229> 1) Character describes what they want to do>> 2) GM sets a difficulty, considering the scale, scope, and duration of the spell, and any circumstances (for instance- trying to be stealthy)>> 3) Player rolls and adds up any circumstantial bonuses (items, potions, buffs, etc.)>> 4) GM determines success or failure and describes what happens. Critical Failure can have dangerous and unpredictable effects. Critical Success means effects are heightened, which can also be dangerous in certain circumstances (for instance- blowing yourself up with a fireball)>> Failure means the spell fizzles and the character loses mana>> Characters can create their own spells, but they receive no bonuses when trying to cast spells outside of their area of expertise>> Practically speaking, this means most characters develop a few frequently used "signature spells">> Characters are encouraged to write their own spellbook and record the base difficulty of the spell at the time it was cast.>> When casting from the spellbook, characters receive a small bonus for preparedness>> This incentivizes players to track things, which helps the GM as well
>>96693199That's similar to what Pendragon did before taking out all magic.I recall some system using a list of questions to define a spell's cost, probably a Free League or PbtA thing, it was pretty nice. Very exploitable but you were intended to try to do that.
>>96693295I'm fine with some level of exploiting the rules. I consider that to be part of the game.If the spell ends up being more powerful than I thought, I increase the difficulty.Most players don't ask questions. If they do, I just armor it in setting and flavor- "the arcane energies are different today. The forces of reality push back against you."Basically, not that different from the Paradox system that another anon wrote about previously.
>>96617229Are there any species in your setting that have particular affinities for a specific kind(s) of magic, and why that kind if so? I found this image and liked it, so Catfolk in my setting have a strong affinity for necromancy and related spells now.
>>96617229Magic is setting literal rules even if those rules somewhat conflict with reality.What this means is you can set a rule to create a fireball, and you can set a rule to curse someone.But because it's very literal, you can slip out of a lot of it via bullshit.
>>96695452What this means is that wizard battles become more like lawyers arguing and counterspelling, or doing stuff from very far away and setting them in motion. Fights against wizards often work around figuring out the trick to a trap or spell
>>96617229How essential do you prefer focus items like wands or staves to be? I dislike the idea that spellcasting is impossible, or at least too much more difficult, without such an item, because otherwise it makes it stretch belief that magic would ever have been discovered.
What's the draw in making a "hard magic" system with so many fucking rules that then get broken for plot progression or chosen one bullshit. Sanderson's stuff is almost shounen like. I don't understand the appeal of it.
>>96619403OK.
>>96697890What precisely is the issue? Also, whenever the rules are seemingly broken, it's because the understanding of them was flawed in the first place, like in Mistborn when Vin learns she can pierce through copper's shielding effect, because it can be overpowered, unlike what was commonly considered to be the case at the time. The core mechanics by which Investiture works stays the same.
>>96704088Or when one of the gods personally intervenes. Don’t forget that.
>>96642190>Games tend to last between 2 weeks to a month, so it isn't likely that you'd miss one while actively monitoring for them.That long, huh? Not sure if I can do one with work going on, I'll have to check.
So used to Vancian.
>>96715941>So used to Vancian.I wonder if that would be nearly as popular as it is if DnD hadn't used it? Also, besides DnD and Dying Earth, what settings do it best?
>>96617229Learning, and practicing, magic is like a science mixed with an art. Certain patterns and structures within shapes and words form a conduit for energy to flow through, and be given form. The more clearly defined the patterns and rituals, the more focused or powerful the effect. Incredibly powerful spells require Incredible precision and a lot of prep. You can't just snap your fingers and stop time. Of course, experienced battle mages can learn which parts are absolutely essential so they can short-cut some parts of an incantation, or only use the most key elements of a combination of runes.Basically, it's a machine, and what you put in is what you get out. And there's a cost to it.
>>96625593Which book precisely is this from? SauceNao gives me nothing.
>>96725182Secrets of Magic for PF2e.
Imo, the magic system in the video game Arx Fatalis is the most enjoyable ever created. You combine series of runic sound/symbols and the right combination casts a spell. For example, "Create" + "Water" + "Missile" might shoot a ball of ice. The player is given limited knowledge of how it works and must discover the combinations themselves during gameplay. If you ported such a system to a TTRPG, you'd have a real gem.
>>96617229What can we do to make Vancian magic more interesting? My suggestion is making it so that spells are often stored in items.
>>96617229It's nanobots mate.Ancient gene-coded nanobots that only respond to those with a particular lineage.They were brought here by people who fell from the sky like stars;Errant demigods cast out of a war in heaven.Their ancestors seeded the earth with dolmens that generate control fields, which link at their edges and form a sort of global wifi network.Those who are descended from the star-race can sometimes learn to manipulate these nanobots, though are usually only capable of mastering a handful of their potentially limitless functions; this can manifest all sorts of effects, from remote combustion and levitation, to reanimating dead matter or translocation, to various psychological and physiological effects.They don't call them nanobots though; Most of the setting's inhabitants subsist on a sort of deiselpunk cargo-cult level of development, and generally all but a highly secretive few consider these phenomena to be spiritual or magical in nature.In terms of gameplay mechanics, it works like this;I point at a guy, and I declare "This guy can throw fireballs" then I say how far, at what accuracy, and how much damage they do.That's it.This is more a skirmish game/light rpg hybrid though; has more in common with 1e warhammer than anything else, in that it is fundamentally a wargame, but with strong roleplaying elements.
Intelligence based casting ONLY.NO Charisma BS.
>>96734360Even for Warlocks? Why?
>>96735430Tough shit. If you can't visualize the spell you can't make it reality.
D&D and it's consequences were a disaster for magic.
>>96617229>How do you prefer your magicGamable content the players can easily understand and I can easily adjudicate that still leaves room for the unknown and unexpected. >how did you design Took Wonder and Wickedness, rough vancian spells per day, added a push-your-luck roll under for casting over that number. Works well. The catastrophes are a bit much if you're not ready to have campaign altering shit sometimes. I use the madlibs spell generation from Freebooters on the Frontier and Maze Rats to generate lists of themed spells for different magic opponents, keeps the spells from getting repetitive. I've been sitting on the Book of Gaub for a colonial weird campaign for a while and wanting to build something a bit more ritual based around it but its a ways off.
>>96737870How can we fix magic then?
>>96739239Refocus on draft and get away from IPs.
>>96617229>awshum!Immediately disregarded.
>>96739309>Refocus on draft and get away from IPs.Okay, can you go in a little more detail please? For instance, what works escaped the worst of the D&D taint?
>>96739355>Immediately disregarded.So if it was just the first #1-3, you'd be fine with it?
>>96617229I like mostly mundane but magic is ritualistic. It requires time, strange ingredients, and proper skill. Also fucking up is risky. But there is one caveate that makes it worth it. As you get more skilled you can tie the magical effects to items or store them for a instant effect.
>>96625593It's fine for the setting but I like magic to be mysterious and not down to a science like it is in D&D sometimes.
>>96617229Ask the worldbuilding general.
>>96618840The anime (actually originally a novel) Shinsekai Yori uses this conception of magic. It kinda causes a lot of problems.
>>96617229What settings/game systems have the best approaches to magic and which have the worst approaches in your book, and why?>G0T2K
>>96617229Traditional games?
>>96743164>The anime (actually originally a novel) Shinsekai Yori uses this conception of magic. It kinda causes a lot of problems.What problems does it cause?
>>96748791(note: the second paragraph is a bigger spoiler than the first)It basically destroys any form of advanced civilization (destroyed, that is - the story takes place after civilization has already decayed) since knowledge is equivalent to ability, therefore nobody but a few can be given any sort of education. This resulted in extremely tyrannical dictatorships where the most knowledgeable person became a sort of god-emperor that routinely tortures and murders his subjects, sometimes for fun, but also to prevent anyone from learning anything. (Technically only a small portion of the population are psychics, but even if everyone was, the logic would only seem more apt). Eventually a "scientist" faction overthrows them and solves the issue of tyrannical dictatorships by genetically modifying humans to be so empathetic that they literally die if they kill another human being. Of course, empathy is a very imprecise measure, so children undergo heavy mental conditioning to prevent any sort of negative emotions, and any that fail in their schooling are removed. On rare occasions, this is not enough and you'll get someone who doesn't have enough empathy (or is just delusional) and begins killing people, but since the effects of heightened empathy still applies to the killer, nobody has the capability to kill them.I guess a lot of those problems come from the attempts to solve the underlying problem of 'knowledge = ability', rather than the power itself, but the fundamental problemOh yeah and because the powers are still restricted by the laws of physics, every thought that is used to manipulate the world needs some sort of mental force applied to it, and the physical law of "energy cannot be created or destroyed" means that those thoughts still exist afterwards and are slowly giving the world psychic cancer, though that's not really a major problem within the timeframe of the show.
>>96749154>I guess a lot of those problems come from the attempts to solve the underlying problem of 'knowledge = ability', rather than the power itself, but the fundamental problemWhoops, didn't end the sentence. "but the fundamental problem is difficult to ignore, and becomes impossible to ignore once anyone starts considering it a problem. Really, it has to be solved."
>>96619403>>96617229Nogames faggot.
>>96749173Okay, how would you suggest solving the problem then, if the anime doesn’t really fix the root issue?
>>96617229Do you like psionics and traditional magic being in the same setting, or should they be incompatible? Not counting 5e as an example of course.
>>96756067I'd let them be in the same setting. Why limit hammers because swords exist?
>>96617229>MagicCan do pretty much anything, however, if ANY other skill/trait/etc would be appropriate for a task, the check to use magic to accomplish that task instead will be an order of magnitude higher than it would be for just using the obvious skill/trait/etc.In order to cast magic at its mundane effect? That's piss easy. Every single modification outside of that mundane effect raises the difficulty a level.>Want to use a touch based fire spellPiss easy>Want to cast it from a distanceEasy>Want to cast it against two targetsAverage>Want an AoE effectRaise it two levels, one for each bolt>Want the effect to linger (burning zone)Raise it twice again, one for each boltOnce you are in the average level of casting, a newbie has a high chance of failure. It's never outright impossible to do anything but so god damn unlikely it might as well be AND it's GM's choice exactly how shit goes sideways when you fuck up a spell. Best thing about this kind of system? It gives the player ALL the rope. The only thing stopping them from hanging themselves, the rest of the party, the surrounding area, and most of the country is their own self-control.
>>96631371Had an idea for a Shotgun Summoner once.Take the end barrel of a shotgun and have the circle of a summoning spell inscribed on it and the shotgun fired slugs that had the sigils of the particular being you were summoning etched onto them. So you would fire and the moment the slug passed the barrel, the being was summoned. Flying forward at 1300 feet per second screaming at its target.
>>96756169Okay, this is based. Like, 1000% based. Did you ever write anything up for it?
>>96617229My settings magic ended up getting so complicated it needed me to make a wiki and give it a page. In short though,in the setting theres the physical plane - and the astral plane which invisibly overlaps it. In the astral plane, ideas take the form of a sort of mist, with denser concentrations of ideas becoming thicker and even changing states of matter in some cases.Some ideas are more powerful than others, namely if they are attached to powerful entities (such as "nuclear bomb") or connect to many other ideas as a root (such as "destruction" tying to "death", "pain", "darkness", "purity", etc.) Magic of any kind is when you take ideas from the astral plane and actively use them for an effect.Spells are large strings of ideas brought together, and are usually shortened verses of a larger prayer or poem. The poetry itself makes the phrasing easier to remember (poetry is meant to be spoken after all), and also allows for more subtle explanations of ideas to be said in fewer words by relying on the reader's understanding. You could theoretically detail every elemental step involved in making a fireball, but its a lot quicker and memorable to remember a bible verse than a 20-step cooking recipe without a book.Souls are themselves collections of information (for example human, male, womanless, penniless, a10 eyes) detailing every detail about yourself. Your body creates lots of magical energy due to all the concepts in it, regardless of if youre aware of it or not. If you can awaken the chakras in your soul (through traumatic life experiences and/or personal growth), you can cast spells or temporarily remove them to use astral projection (a la jojo stands).Or you can just ingest sentient hallucinogens that temporarily awaken your chakras to make deals with powerful magical entities and have them do stuff for you
>>96756169Where did you get this idea? And how much damage did it do?
>>96696947I agree, my focus items are just amplifiers. They let the mage channel more energy with less strain on themselves.
>>96617229What are magic systems so bad that they make you want to tear your hair out because they’re so shit? get to dislike Harry Potter magic as I got older, as they make no real explanation of why magic responds to pseudo-Latin words, say that you apparently need magic to make potions despite what Snape said early on, etc.
>>96769144Don't get me started on that. One of my biggest issues with it is things like how house elves can teleport even when Voldemort is the one who cast the spells against that kind of thing.
>>96767440So it's basically the magical equivalent of a lever then?
>>96617229>>96619403 (me)OP, you're a nogames faggot.
>>96769144>>96771510Maybe it's unclear and often hypocritical because...it's magic?
>>96776593Takes one to know one.>>96769144I vaguely remember one, but I can't remember where from because it was so shit that I tried to block it out.
>>96778330Magic works best when it has SOME internal consistency, otherwise it's all questions like "why didn't they just use the eagles to get there".
>>96756067Why do they have to be different things? Its obvious at this point even D&D no longer treats arcane and psionics as different. Rather, psionics is as different from arcane as primal is from divine
>>96778330>5 hour bump>inane question begging for engagement>>96783215>18 hour bump>inane statement begging for engagement>>96786284>8 hour bump>inane argument starter begging for engagementhere's the (You)s (you)'re so desperate for
>>96786308don't tweet at me if you aren't contributing to the threadthanx
>>96756095True. Though swords seem a lot more popular than hammers.
>>96756067I prefer psionics over traditional spells, DESU. Makes things easier to work into more modern settings.
>>96617229What are some ways to revitalize blood magic besides using it to control those who have ingested the mage's blood like picture related? And what settings/systems do blood magic well?
>>96617229Based. We need more authors using this.
>>96696947My current favorite interpretation is that magic wands are required for any sort of spellcraft and having them removed from a Wizard's person means they just can't cast spells at all.>B-But i don't want to be able to be disarmed!That's the point. The limitations is what makes it fun.
>>96696947
>>96617240>he doesn't know about the magic systemNgmi
>>96617229>how did you design the system for your setting?Pretty much my entire setting was built on aesthetics and then worldbuilt to justify those aesthetics. I wanted a setting where magic felt scarce and somewhat inherently sketchy so all magic requires specific, often esoteric and largely lost knowledge on how to perform it and requires a sacrifice of blood or salt to use. Mechanically I mostly just borrowed the psionics system from the system I'm running (Mekton Zeta) and refluffed it as magic while adjusting how powers are activated.
>>96807613>he doesn't know about the magic systemNTA, but what's that now?
>>96811558Some individuals are born able to tap into a vast pool of power by sheer chance, power they can use to change society at their whim. It is only others born with this same power that stand a chance of opposing them - and while some choose to use their power for good, ultimately it is the most unscrupulous who come out ahead, dividing the world up between them as they jockey for power.We call these vast wells of power 'trust funds'.
>>96639955What is the purpose of these? I was on /tg/ regularly years ago but my use of the board dwindled and now there's a ton of threads that are nothing but a stupid question and usually some shit art.
>>96665285Just because the magic has well defined rules, that doesnt make it become technology. Lets say that a setting's magic is powered by the stars and their positions in the sky. Obviously astrology and astronomy become a major aspect of the setting, but this doesn't mean that all magic is a predictable cut-and-dry science - either to us or to the setting's denizens. Magic would slowly change across the years, and the coming of a meteor shower or passing comet or asteroid could wildly and unexpectedly change magic in all sorts of ways.In any case though, its also about perspective. Even when the metaphysics of magic are "solved" by the greatest scholars of a setting, that doesnt mean that we ourselves can truly understand it or appreciate it beyond marveling at pretty colors - as much as we'd like to imagine ourselves otherwise.
>>96617229No systems, because they will write you into the corner.
>>96617229What are the best examples of magic systems based on Law vs Chaos besides Warhammer, and what do you advise when creating one such system?
>>96817435WarhammerDeferring to Warhammer
>>96817637>Deferring to WarhammerEveryone here knows about it, don't they? Better to get it out of the way first.
>>96617229I like the idea where you don't technically "possess" magic, you just express it through unlocking certain reagents or items.Sort of like Soul Sacrifice.
>>96819506You got the answer your question merited.
>>96819749Oh, you're saying that Warhammer is the only option? I thought that you were dissing me for mentioning it. So there's really no better system for Law and Chaos magics?
>>96821935Amber Chronicles had Law/Chaos actually.
>>96821935YesNo
What are some magics?
What are some ideas for magic you like but would never ever use in a traditional game?
>>96822832>Amber Chronicles had Law/Chaos actually.Thanks, I'll have to check it out. Looks like a big read though.
what are some books?
what books have magic in them?
