Reminder that goblins are ontologically evil and there is no act or harm against them which is wrong.
>>96622913What game?
>>96622962No one on this cesspit of a board actually plays games anymore, how long are you going to keep doing this?
>>96622913Sure, people say that, but when cut off the limbs of a female goblin, shove it's babies in a meat grinder, shove the baby paste down their limbless mothers throat, so her stomach gets bloated, roast her on a spit, and remove the stomach, suddenly I'm a monster for eating Swamp Haggis.
>>96622962All of them.All games have evil goblins, if you think a game doesn't have evil goblins, it has evil goblins that are good at hiding.
>>96622962That's blatantly Pathfinder you utter no-games tourist scum.
>>96623097Except in Pathfinder you can play goblins, so they have no set alignment.At least pretend you know what you're talking about before you throw out "tourist" like it's some magic word for winning internet arguments.
>>96623149Holy shit, that 'tourist' bit hit a nerve, didn't it?Sorry budy, but you intstantly out yourself as nogames by not recognizing PF goblin artstyle.
>>96622913So.Philosophically speaking.Is raping an ontologically evil creature an amoral act?
>>96623192NTA, but Pathfinder isn't the be all, end all of games. Shit, I've not looked at it since the new edition came out.Now if you really want to talk mad shit about him, what should've given it away is the fact the file is called 'Path Goblin'
>>96622913Hear, hear!
>goblin tavern wenchBut she can't even reach the tables?
>>96623510Kobolds are better!
>>96623510Here's a hint, they're not going for the booze.
>>96623215Delivering punishment to an ontologically evil race can only be described as a righteous act.
>>96622913>no act against them is wrong>thus implying that mercy towards them is okay
>>96622913What an astoundingly boring opinion.
>>96623024Clearly you've never played GURPS Banestorm, because the Banestorm goblins are good Catholics.
>>96622913-> >>96619031
>>96622913Okay.
>>96622913Reminder that OP is ontologically a fag and there is no act not stance of his that is heterosexual, regardless of its content.
>>96623215>>96623730There are acts which themselves are evil, and committing them against evil creatures is still an evil act. Ends never justify means if you wish to remain a good person. Rape is an evil act no matter who you do it too. So no, it isn't amoral.If doing evil acts upon evil creatures was somehow neutral or even good, then the Blood War between Demons and Devils would result in an attrition of combatants and a swelling of the ranks of good. Instead, what we see is more and more evil committed.Both of you are evil people.>>96622913>Reminder that goblins are ontologically evilThis is utterly untrue.>D&D 3.5>Usually neutral evilThis means that there are some goblins who are not evil. If they were, the entry would read Always Evil, as it does in the various fiends.Additionally, Pathfinder goblins have never been ontologically evil and with PF2e are even a Core ancestry with more of them being neutral or good than evil.Even older editions also do not make Goblins ontologically evil.In fact, there are, with absolutely no exceptions, no beings in D&D that are explicitly and truly ontologically evil. Not even Demons and Devils and other fiends are truly ontologically evil, with a rare few finding their redemption and slipping into neutral and good.
Why did ontological become a meme word?
>>96624833Gnoles.
>>96622999Eating anything related to haggis should be enough to plunge you into CE.
>>96625066>t. cally-breek-tattie
>>96625033what?
>>96622913can I have a goblin girl slave I can tickle torture
>>96623215If you used a spell to alter the alignment of a wild deer to some form of Evil and then raped it, would the bestiality you just committed still be wrong, or is it okay because the deer is evil?
>>96622913>Reminder that goblins are ontologically evilThere is no such thing as ontologically evil within the setting of the system I wrote. Get fucked with your 5 year old maturity black and white morality bullshit.>there is no act or harm against them which is wrong.They are sapient creatures with free will and the ability to self-determine like all other sapient species in the setting. You'll be punished for assaulting them like you would anyone else.>>96623024>All games have evil goblinsAh, we're moving the goalposts now are we? Not "ontologically evil" goblins, just "evil" goblins. Well, by that measure, every setting has evil humans too.>>96623192They're also correct, as of the latest handbook alignment is dead in PF.
>>96622913Are goblins mammals?
>>96626623yeah
>>96623232I still recall the moment where "what game???" faggot didn't recognize iconic tyranid art
>>96626613>PF got rid of alignmentGood, people were retarded about it anyway. Alignment was always supposed to be used as a quick world building concept for cohesive and consistent adventure and setting creation. It was very rarely supposed to be some kind of hard rule for every instance.Since ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARDS are making the case of "Demons from Hell can be good too, chud" with total sincerity these days and ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RETARDED designers are indeed making hell spawned demons good aligned creatures, alignment serves no purpose at all anymore.If Lord Baby Raper the 14th, future heir to the Baby Raping empire of the 99th layer of Hell can be labelled as Good because he asks for infant consent? Yeah, your alignment system is retarded.
>>96627352That's not why Alignment was retarded. Alignment was - and is in the case of dnd 2024 - retarded because it pidgeonholes your character into one of nine boxes (three if you're playing older editions).>Alignment was always supposed to be used as a quick world building concept for cohesive and consistent adventure and setting creation.All it ever did was lead to arguing about what an alignment meant and ruin games. Even in the editions where it had a mechanical purpose for Priests/Clerics and later Paladins. If you need a 3x3 grid to tell you that killing someone for their gold is fucking evil, then you're a morally bankrupt person, just like if you need a holy book to tell you how to behave.>Since ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARDS are making the case of "Demons from Hell can be good too, chud" with total sincerity these days Oh look it's a fucking retard who thinks freiren was anything other than a boring slog about an autistic elf who realized she fumbled the best thing she could have had in himmel like 100 years too late. Anyway, you're jumping at shadows. I have never once seen anything or anyone do that unironically in any game I have ever run or played and I know for a fact you're just regurgitating unfounded claims you saw here.>If Lord Baby Raper the 14th, future heir to the Baby Raping empire of the 99th layer of Hell can be labelled as Good because he asks for infant consent? Lord Baby Raper the 14th, future heir to the Baby Raping empire of the 99th layer of Hell can be evil without his sheet having the word EVIL printed on it. It's kind of inferred by the fact he rapes babies you mongoloid. Anyone who needs the sheet to tell them something is evil instead of judging it by its actions and words is probably evil IRL.
>>96622913Does the same apply to the only ACTUALLY ontologically evil mortal species? You know. Humans.
>>96627352>Since ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARDS are making the case of "Demons from Hell can be good too, chud" with total sincerity these days and ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RETARDED designers are indeed making hell spawned demons good aligned creatures, alignment serves no purpose at all anymore.Now?Motherfucker Planescape: Torment came out in 1999. That shit is probably older than you are. Fall-From-Grace is literally a creature made of chaos and evil that has through sheer force of will become lawful neutral.And that's just the first instance I can think of. I know for a fact that this idea was not new when Planescape: Torment came out, and there might even be some shit from a previous D&D games that touched on this idea.
>le rape amirite XDyou manlets fit right into this nigger-ridden tranny clown hellugly shit soup people
>>96622962learn context clues YOU AUTISTIC PEDANT LOSER>>96623232>Pathfinder isn't the be allbut is IS the game in OP, cockmongling faggot retard
>>96622913Even rape?
>>96625302GNOLLS, RETARD
>>96622913>Reminder that goblins are ontologically evil and there is no act or harm against them which is wrong.It's morally right to rape goblin shortstack thiccies, you say? that's definitely not going to off-topic this thread into a torrent of goblin softcore.>>96627539>That's not why Alignment was retarded. Alignment was - and is in the case of dnd 2024 - retarded because it pidgeonholes your character into one of nine boxes (three if you're playing older editions).You're an idiot, that's not how alignment works.Alignment is a descriptor of your values, not a prescription of behavior.It's also not synonymous with hero or villain. Adolf Hitler was Lawful Good, he believed in strict societal order and the inherent validity of hierarchies of authority and thought everything he was doing was morally right, that he was uplifting an oppressed german people and smiting the wicked that plagued them from without and within, but he was still very much a villain.He wouldn't have even fallen as a 3.5 paladin, because he wasn't *willingly* committing an Evil act; though his acts were Evil in that many innocents died on his command, he was intending to commit Good acts, his flawed understanding of the circumstances were something beyond his in-the-moment control and thus made the Evil unwilling, had he not been deeply convinced by his fellow countrymen that intentional subversion by malicious scheming immigrants was the primary internal problem with Germany, he would have instead been focused on attacking corrupt bankers, vice peddlers, and exploitative leeches of any race, but only them, rather than inseparably conflating the two, which would have been inarguably Good.
>>96629646That said, a villain like Hitler is kind of hard to pull off in a D&D context, because literal angels will come down and ask "bro what the actual fuck are you doing? No! Try again, dumbass."At which point he'd either have to change his malignant point of view, or else turn a blind eye because he WANTS to believe it regardless of the facts, depending on how committed he is and what his actual internal alignment is.And continuing in WILLFUL ignorance makes it Willful Evil, so he WOULD fall, and wanting to harm innocents, even when you're lying to yourself about it, is still Evil, and his alignment would change to Evil because of his change in values.Or would have just always been Evil from the start, as is the more typical case. Justification and self-deceit about one's morality are more common than confused true ignorance, I've found.
>>96629434raping a goblin is arguably one of the lulziest things you can do
>>96629646>Deliberately partitioned his cabinet and forced them to directly compete with each other for budget and recognition so that they'd be too busy infighting to overthrow him>Forced the government to buy copies of his book and issue them as wedding gifts to married couples so he could profit off of the royalties>Deliberately refused to surrender even once the war turned south because he wanted to personally punish the German people for failing himHitler was a bastard who lied his way to the top so he could profit off it while hurting anyone he didn't like, and spent his downfall trying to make sure it hurt as many people as he could.
>>96629478Well than spell it appropriately the first time you fuckwit, Lord Dunsany's weird gnome troll mixes arent anything like the hyena people.But still, even they arent ontologically evil either. Especially before the shitass fucking 5e FR retcon that completely altered their nature.>>96629646>Adolf Hitler was Lawful GoodWhat retarded nonsense is this bullshit? No wonder people hate alignment, you've got the worst sorts of cockmongling lackwits thinking one of the worst tyrants of our age is somehow Lawful fucking Good. He was capital E evil to the core. He was a selfish, monstrous man given to evil appetites and actions. His every belief was that born of Devils, of hierarchy and cruelty.>thought everything he was doing was morally right>he was intending to commit Good actsIntentions have little bearing on alignment, this is one of the first and most important things you learn when fucking reading it. It is about actions taken, and his were monstrous genocidal actions that only the worst sorts of Demons do. Quit downplaying his evil and cruelty.What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>96627572Falls is nice though i wonder if that's a part of her backstory.She's a Demon enslaved by devils for years, bound as a creature outside of the structures of both. too intellectual for Tanar'ri and too Tanar'ri for Baatezu. and nobody thinks of Yugoloth.How does one redeem creatures of evil?Is it even possible?Because when you think about it, not only are their natures bathed in the evil of mortals but their world, their nature, their society is bound by it, some are directly enslaved by the power of their superiors in one big demonic ponzy scheme. can you even trust them?it's hard enough to get morality from mortals let creatures naturally evil. i think the real question is what is more likely to become goodFiends of chaos, law or neutrality?
>>96630286Redeeming can mean being saved from evil or returning to a prior state If the first meaning is used and a being is evil on a fundamental level, it would necessitate it's destruction because the foundation of its existence must be removed.If the second meaning is applied, redeeming something that originated as evil would just put it right back at being evil again.>>96629892All Hitler did was forcefully correct wrong think from all the ignorant chuds surrounding him.
>>96630286>it's hard enough to get morality from mortals let creatures naturally evilAh but you repeat yourself.
>>96630286By your metric then it would be impossible to corrupt Celestials, and yet...
>>96629892>Intentions have little bearing on alignmentThey have everything to do with alignment.Go read the original Gygaxian descriptions. They're about what you value and how you think the world should operate.>"The character's alignment is a guide to his basic moral and ethical attitudes toward others, society, good, evil, and the forces of the universe in general." - 2e AD&DLawful believes in the legitimacy of authority and hierarchies, that some have a legitimate right to rule and determine legality, though what it is that legitimizes them varies. Noble birth, religious prominence, intelligence, age, election by the governed, what have you, there is an inherently right way for society to be organized and the one on top in that right way has a right to rule.Chaotic are anarchists who believe all authority and legality is a social construct, and merely a mask for implicit violence, the only true source of power, infringing on natural personal freedoms.Good believes there is an inherently right morality, one based in honesty, collectivism, altruism, self-sacrifice and punishment of those who harm others for personal gain, the ultimate antithesis to altruism.Evil believes there is no real morality or justice, that personal self-interest reigns over all. One could think of them as Moral anarchists to Chaotics Ethical anarchists.Neutrality believes in the strictures of each, but only as a matter of pragmatism, not something sacrosanct. It's useful to have some kind of organization to society, but no one actually has a "right" to rule, and there's no "right" way to organize society as long as it works, and morality is merely guidelines to keeps us from being at each other's throats.>What the fuck is wrong with you?Easy, I'm all too aware that the path to hell is often paved with good intentions. You've got to be incredibly careful when dealing in "Greater Goods" that you actually know what is truly Good. "Be wary, he who fights monsters..."
>>96629802Hmm, fair enough, in that case consider him the aforementioned latter case, and imagine a second hypothetical Hitler who actually did believe the things he was saying rather than just using them as excuses for hatred and grift.
>>96630797That doesn't necessarily trackWhere does the corruption usually come from?those who have active dealings with the abyss, evil, corruption or were directly manipulated. Trias is this specific thing, he's faced the evil of the lower planes and argued that they should purge it, his folly was his obsession led him to engage in stupid shit.
Gave my goblins a racial feature to always have a shiv on their person somewhere, regardless of how thoroughly they're searched.
>>96631019So, they have teeth?
>>96629892be less of an ignoramus, moron
>>96629892adolf hitler was 100% LG
>>96623215You just want to fuck vampire women
>>96626544>Changed something's alignment to evilEvil act>Rape, regardless of victimEvil act>BestialityEvil act unless it's awakened, but still gross either way
>>96631713>Evil act unless it's awakened, but still gross either wayEven inside a marriage?
>>96622981He's gonna keep doing it as long as you give him (You)s.
>>96631756You know the answer
>>96631713>>Rape, regardless of victim>Evil actWhy is raping an evil creature always evil but harming it in other ways isn't?
>>96630976Okay but that still doesn't refute the idea that evil beings can be "corrupted" to be good.
>>96629646,>It's also not synonymous with hero or villain. Adolf Hitler was Lawful Good, he believed in strict societal order and the inherent validity of hierarchies of authority and thought everything he was doing was morally right, that he was uplifting an oppressed german people and smiting the wicked that plagued them from without and within, but he was still very much a villain.Anon I hate to break to you but that's how everyone thinks, everyone believes they're "the good guy" if that means you aren't evil than no one is. Even those that think something as basic as "being evil is good" are good by this argument.
>>96622981Forever.
>>96632026>ExecutionA fulfillment of the punishment delivered by the law with no connection between the one who executes and the one whose blood is spilt>RapeAn attempt to perform a certain action by one side that fundamentally has to do with the linking of the two involved together, against the will of one side.In one case, a hypothetical paladin would be following through with his oath to reduce evil in the world, while in the other, they are attempting to forcefully connect with evil even through its rejection. Nobody is going to feel particularly bad for the target in either case, but one option leaves the paladin unstained while the other connects the paladin to the very evil the paladin swore to destroy.
Alignment causes brain damage because you have people unironically saying Hitler was Good because he thought it was good to shove Jewish kids into gas chambers. The whole point of a universe where morality is baked into its fabric is that it tells you that those things are bad.
>>96631756Purplesmart will never love you.
>>96632597There are a LOT of people who think putting jewish kids into gas chambers is good nowadays, apparently.
>>96622981>justifying their own no-games
>>96632047>Anon I hate to break to you but that's how everyone thinks, everyone believes they're "the good guy"No, some people don't believe that good exists, just smart and stupid, weak and strong. The "good" are just the weak and stupid.Ever read Nietzsche? Master-slave morality?It's more common than you'd think among the upper crust. That's why they have all the pedo rings and shit.Nobody rode Epstein's Lolita Express thinking "I'm doing the Good™ thing, I'm a hero for raping children on the weekend." They thought "morality is a tool for keeping the expendable peasant cattle in line, I do as I please because I have Power."
>>96629646>Adolf Hitler was Lawful Good(you)
>>96632969Good thing I'm into Yellowquiet
>>96633046>doingYes. We call that Evil. Like Hitler. Genocide is Evil. He was at absolute best LE. Probably more CE given how much of an insane schizo he was.
