Are there any systems that do melee combat well?Most popular systems I've found fail in one aspect: They're static. They don't make you move once you hit melee. You're either standing still trying to roll to hit someone over and over (GURPS, D&D, Lancer, etc.) or you're just moving out of melee combat because you're built for ranged instead.I want something that emphasizes movement and not staying in one place, but isn't just mapless mother-may-i mechanics and other bullshit. There anything that even gets close to that, or am I out of luck?
>>96634586Play battletech, punches and kicks only. Reskin it to be about old timey pugilists
>>96634586>spellblade wielding rapier and tome dot jpg
>>96634586try FATE
>>96635076Nah, you know that's shit kill yourself.
>>96634586pathfinder 2 at least tries, most things don't have opportunity attacks and standing there rolling multiple attacks gets worse and worse, so moving around is more rewarded. That plus a lot of special attack actions include moving. Still gets the flankers flanking flankers conga line issue, but at least you can move around more freely.
>>96634586Prowlers and Paragons.
>>96634586Song of Swords
>>96639094Sucks.>>96639153You still just stand still to fight.
>>96639483Incorrect.
>>96639490Prove it.
>>96639498You haven't supported your position, why should I?
>>96634586Check the previous 10 threads you've made just in the past month
>>96639503Troll somewhere else nogames.>>96639509First time I've ever made a thread for this topic and there were zero good answers in the archives.
>>96639153OP asked for games with good melee combat, not tax filling exercise
>>96639513Wrong answer. Support your position. Final warning.
>>96639513Incorrect, there are good answers in this thread.
>>96639514That's why I suggested Song of Swords.
>>96639514Nobody mentioned ACKS though.
>>96634586From the top of my head:>Wild Fields 1eIt's a highly dynamic system based on actual sabre fencing, so standing still is a great way to die, but moving too much means you have no time to fight (or parry), making it a constant balancing act of all three.It's also super-simple, so you can teach a 10 yo with no knowledge about TTRPGs or fencing how it works.>All for OneHas very potent and important knockback and knockdown rules, while also Size/Defense matrix. This means you can make both Dex and Str work in their own way, along with forcing combat to be constantly moving, because attacking someone will force them to move, and you will be forced to move when parrying/being attacked. Getting someone pinned to a wall or other obstacle is a great way to completely change the dynamics, but so is taking strategic position in a narrow passage OR a wall behind your back. Very fucking fluid>FATE/FUDGEIt's basically the peak theatre of the mind, so footwork can be easily woven into the narrative for the right mechanics advantage. Same with parries, positioning and what not. Faggots who say theatre of the mind can't support tactical combat are in fact brain-dead morons who can only operate minis over grid and can't adopt to any non-linear change of situation.
>>96639529>3 pages of bleeding rules, with two sub-tables>To decide if you died this turn or the next oneA coin toss would do, but oh well, better pretend that having a massive rule bloat for minutae detail change is good game design or lead to engaging combat when you need to do five different checks in a row.
>>96639563It's good even if it makes your mental illness act up.
>>96639557>All For OneRegime Diabolique? That and Wild Fields sound interesting. I'll give them a look over.>>96639563>3 pages of bleeding rulesBleeding rules take up half a page and are pretty simple, idk what the fuck you're on about.
>>96639568No it isn't.
>>96639568>If people point out flaws, it means it's actually goodThis is what taking contrarianism for a substitute of personality does to a man>>96639574And I suppose they also magically shrink an 800 monster of raw text into neat and concise >250 pages rulebook?Come on, mate, who are you trying to shit here?Especially when you compare it with either Wild Fields (entirety of combat is 17 pages, all of it) and All for One (>60)
>>96639593>he's literally hallucinatingDude really is totally mental.
>>96639587>>96639568>>96639529>>96639153It's a fine game, would be even better if the head dev stopped snorting coke and finished the magic rules.But it's not quite what I'm looking for.>>96639593>And I suppose they also magically shrink an 800 monster of raw text into neat and concise >250 pages rulebook?Idk what the fuck you're talking about because the rulebook for Song of Swords is 245 pages long.
>>96639599It's trash.
>>96639607Nah you are for being too stupid to even read the rulebook.
>>96639613It's trash.
>>96639574Nevermind, Wild Fields is only in polish and I'm not learning how to speak their barbarian language.All For One looks usable, but not very interesting and not at all what I want.Had a bad feeling when that anon started rambling about FATE and thinks theater of the mind is tactical, should've trusted my gut.
>>96639094/thread.
Obvious samefag is obvious
Yeah, you are.
>>96639599Been away to check on exact rules of WF in the meanwhile, so whoever you've been arguing with wasn't me.Anyway, back to WF:You have three things to budget:Your HP Your weapon proficiency (anywhere between 8 to 12 on chargen, 10 is a lot)Your stamina (proficiency value x2)The goal is to kill the motherfuckers dead (or run away) before you run out of HP or the loss of stamina decreases your proficiency into useless values.The game goes in "big numbers" for HP, to have a breathing room between "harmless cuts that add up" and "lethal blows that drop you dead" (which majority of games doesn't have at fucking all, especially those of the "muh realismus" breed), so your HP is 100, and you deal d50+modifiers damage.Each round, you pre-spend your proficiency budget on moves: either literal moving around (1 point), attacks (and what kind, for 1, 2 or 3 points) or parries (either 1, 2 or 3 points).Then it's a matter of what does your opponent(s) and how do you match in moves. Because you have a budget of only 8-10 proficiency on average, it means standing still against 2 or more guys just whackig at you is a perfect way to get killed, because they might have 6-8 points themselves, but they are going to simply overcome you by the sheer volume of attacks or prevent from attacking them.But if you move around, you can position yourself in a way where you are facing just one bloke at a time, put entire focus to kill him and then face less of a crowd without being exposed.I guess it's easier to play it to show how it works than explain it without examples. Still, highly advised system for dynamic melee, because it pretty much forces you to move around. And it HAS TO BE 1e. 2e is trash with super-static combat, copying WFRP
>>96639671>Managed to find it's in Polish>Doesn't know it's been translated to English, Swedish and Russian
>>96639763jesus that's awful
>>96639774You asked for a game that forces you to move around, I delivered.Not sure what you were expecting. The design goal was very simple with this one: "we want epic duels, and we want system where overwhelming with sheer numbers works".So the combat loop is effectively burning your pool of parries and attacks, and only then rolling any potential left-overs. Really good and really effective for such simple system, makes massive difference between weak and strong opponents and most importantly, trains people to not be "I hit the closest one" faggotry that was prevailing in the 90s and 00s with other games.
>>96639770>>Doesn't know it's been translated to EnglishGoogle turned up nothing, can a bookless brotha get a link?>>96639763>so your HP is 100, and you deal d50+modifiers damage.That's actually quite unique.>But if you move around, you can position yourself in a way where you are facing just one bloke at a time, put entire focus to kill him and then face less of a crowd without being exposed.What happens when two people with equal points are fighting?Also, three questions if you're preparing moves ahead of time and the goal is to predict the opponent1. Why would I not just make constant attacks?2. What's to stop the two guys from just moving in the same direction? 2. What keeps both sides from just moving away from eachother constantly by accident?
>>96639794Wrong anon, the guy you're replying to is the samefag who can't read rulebooks and recommended capeshit.
>>96639794trash>>96639806I'm the OP dumb schizo
>>96634586Street Fighter from White Wolf
>>96639806He seems pretty mad after you shat on his game kek
lol delusional schizo
>>96639802I've got the Swedish version and the Polish one, sorry.>What happens when two people with equal points are fighting?Nothing really, they have equal budget to spend for their turn.>1. Why would I not just make constant attacks?Because it means you don't have a single parry in your roster, meaning the other guy harms you, too.>2. What's to stop the two guys from just moving in the same direction?You mean when facing a group, or duel-wise?Group: not enough space to fit themDuel: nothing, unless there is a wall or similar>2. What keeps both sides from just moving away from eachother constantly by accident?Because the direction of move is stated when the move is being made, not pre-plotted.Let me give you a duel example to make it more clear, because this might be really confusing without knowing the game:PC has 10 points of proficiency, he's facing a brigand, with 6 proficiencyPlayer declares he's going to do 1 move, 1 light slash (1) 2 slashes (4 points total) and 2 parries (4 points); 10 points in totalBrigand makes 1 move, 2 light slashes (2), lunge (3); 6 points in totalRight off the bat, we "burn" 2 parries and 2 light attacks, they cancel each other out. Both have 1 move, so no matter how they re-position themselves, they can remain in close distance and keep fighting, that's also "burned"What's left isPC: 1 light and 2 regular slashesBrigand: 1 lungeRolls happen...
Rolled 2, 1, 7, 7 = 17 (4d10)>>96639840For fuck's sake, forgot to write in dice
Rolled 19, 36, 31 = 86 (3d50)>>96639847
>>96639840>>96639847>>96639855Ok, so the PC did 86 damage in his go, the brigand is still (barely) alive, but because his HP is below 20, he's unable to continue with his own attack (he's barely able to stand)So we had a non-lethal resolution, with completely disabled opponent
>>96639840>>96639847>>96639855>>96639864If I understand this right:2 PC Parries canceled out the 2 Light Slashes of the Brigand outright.The PC's Light Slash and 2 Slashes gave him 3d50 damage.My questions: What were the d10s for, Why did the lunge resolve last (Related to initiative I assume?), and why not make a ton of light slashes?>Both have 1 move, so no matter how they re-position themselves, they can remain in close distance and keep fightingI don't think this fits what I'm looking for if that's how movement ends up, BUT it is a very interesting system and I thank you for the example and answering my silly questions.
T R A S H
>>96639879>What were the d10s forAttack rolls>Why did the lunge resolve last (Related to initiative I assume?)I skipped a great deal of stuff, but by design, it would be impossible for a brigand with 6 proficiency to go faster than PC with 10, unless both rolled extremes on initiative>and why not make a ton of light slashes?I also skipped what each kind of attacks does; generally those for 1 and 3 points have debuffs, 2s are "regular" attacks and parries.>I don't think this fits what I'm looking for if that's how movement ends upIf the brigand didn't make a move, he would be unable to hit, giving the other side resprite (and himself, accidentally); in crowd scenes, not moving can completely remove you from ability to fight, and that might leave your buddies undermanned and exposedLook, the system has 17 pages to explain this, I've got 2k letters per post. Key ideas are:- you have a budget for your moves- you need to balance them out- each attack does different thing, affecting your remaining stamina- it is possible to use footwork for your advantage (it's way more complex than just "move away")- movement can be done before, after or in the middle of a turn, as long as you have enough moves (very fucking important)- unless it's open space, room confines really fucking affect things, because a wall might be either a good defensive position or terribly exposed positionEnd result is a system that pretty much forces you to keep thinking about repositioning yourself non-stop and when and how. In duels - maybe not so much, but no combat in this game is a 1:1 duel, unless honour is at stake.
>>96639924To follow up (kinda)You face duo of brigands.>Move>Move>One of them can't follow>Two slashes at the following, he drops dead>Move one more>Next turn you've got enemy that has to waste 3 moves to get to you, leaving him with 3 points left for attacks>You have 10, so you can parry whatever he does and then do whatever the fuck you please
>>96634586I quite like the WoD stuff for it.>Multiple stats. Use an Attribute (str, dex and stamina) and a skill (brawl, martial arts, melee).>If your skills are low, you can only do certain things, but as each gets higher, you can do more and more things relating to each of those skills.>Punches, kicks, jumping kicks, superman punches, grapples, grappling and wrestling mechanics, sweeps, throws, joint locks, ground and pound, armbars etc. Can also focus on dodging, or defending blows.>Martial arts, Brawl and Melee each offer slightly different ranges of options you can do in a melee fight, with different difficulty roles, using different attributes, and having higher or lower potential effects if done successfully.I'll need to review it some more, but outside of not having much incentive for movement irrc, it's probably the best system I've seen for mechanically breaking down a fight, if one ignores potential pacing issues.
>>96634586Go play a video game or wargame. I don't want to sit there for 4 hours while you play out your little autistic larp dance. Roll to hit, roll your damage, move the fuck on.
>>96640555Don't worry, you'd never be allowed at any functional table.
I actually had an idea for a HEMA-inspired wargame based around poseable action figures rather than regular minis. Combat would be based around stances, positioning and action point economy. It'd be horrendously expensive and time consuming to recreate proper medieval Warfare with it, though, especially since I wanted the figures to be similar to those old historical figurines with real cloth tabbards and other accessories, which would have mechanical effects relating to morale, unit coordination and faction bonuses.
>>96639517>Final warning.Watch out, we got a badass over here.
>>96640555>Roll to hit, roll your damage>Not making a double roll>Not having it as a single roll
>>96639513>there were zero good answers in the archives.There you have your answer.
>>96640636Problem with "guards" when it comes to fencing is that they need to be treated as more transitional states between techniques than something you stand in or approach an opponent with. Because fencing has an ungodly amount of nuance that cant be quite articulated within a tabletop framework you'll never even get close to scratching the service of anything simulationalist. Id go even as far to say that concepts like blade alignment, strong-weak engagements and leverage are more essential to simulating true sword fighting than guards - but that's INSANELY autistic and probably quite unfun.I think thats why when it comes to designing combat you should look at more romanticised ideas of what it represents than searching for legitimate sources. Also you'll invoke the faggot fencers (Italians) to talk about how cool their nake dudes in their texts are compared to the chiefly and earnest German fencer.
>>96634586Honor+Intrigue.
>>96634586>You're either standing still trying to roll to hit someone over and over (GURPS, D&D, Lancer, etc.>GURPS>standing stillwhat? The most important defense is the dodge and retreat. Almost every GURPS melee combat will have combatants going back and forth to make use of the +retreat defensive option.Not to mention that due to attacks from behind being incredibly deadly since you don't get an active defense, any fight with more than one enemy will always have everyone moving around trying to get that flanking hit.You can fault GURPS for a lot of things, but melee combat involving "standing still" is utterly false. And there are rules that make moving around even more common, like extra effort in combat or chanbara steps.
>>96642022Can you like, not lie and accept that I don't find your system of any use to me?
>>96634586H+I is one system where movement in combat can be used to achieve a concrete advantage and is worth doing. Weirdly, WFRP2e made it highly plausible to shove people around a battlefield, which is useful if you're fighting near fire, pits, etc.
