annnnd the crowd goes mild!
uh oh, trench crusade has some competition. both will leave james Twerkshop in the dust either way though.
>>96643638Gav Thorpe utterly sanitized Konflict '47s lore btw too and Warlord change rules ala GW to force you to buy more konflict 47 specific minis
>>96643632>crowdDoubt.
>>96643638edgeslop vs no you can’t play the nazisaaand everyone loses. who could’ve guessed
>>966440093's a crowd
spoonfeed me on this
>>96649720Warlords has had this weird war 2 game called Konflikt'47 for years, mainly to have something else to sell WW2 models for besides Bolt Action. They seem to wish to make it more distinct from Bolt Action with mechas, which is a tall odrder since K47 is pretty generic for a Weird War 2 setting.
>>96644251>no you can’t play the nazisAm I missing something, because it seems not to be the case.
>>96649781Thorpe sanitized Germany by having an evil cult wipe out the party members to install a redditor friendly BBEG at the helm.
>>96650085Thorpe? We've known that since the 90's.
K47 somehow manages to fuck up a universally loved concept of Weird War 2. The setting lacks whimsy. They made wunderwaffe occult Germans boring. How do you fuck that up?
>>96643632Well, at least they're consistant. Like, was there ever a more reductive post WW2, weird war setting than Konflikt 47?It's literally the Squidward Taking Order Sarcastically Meme given wargame form.>"I'll have a... pulp sci-fi post-45 WW2 wargame">"How original">"The nazi's get vampires and zombies, russains get werebears and everybody get's power armour and mechs due to a bullshit material">"Daring today aren't we?"It's just so crushingly unorginal in concept.
>>96650223>universally loved concept of Weird War 2That's like saying "universally loved concept of steampunk".
>>96650223It's Warlord Games. They always do this. Buy out somebody else's homework, rub out their names, put in their own dull and boring words with an even duller presentation and font and then shit it out into the world.Judge Dredd, Victory at Sea, Warmaster, hell, even this used to be a much more charming 15mm game done by one guy in his bedroom, they're all victims of it.The VAS one pisses me off the most, as I've literally got Mongoose's original V3 playtest documents, and even in playtest form their game had vastly superior presentation compared to what Warlord shat out, after misprinting all of their 3D model files that came with it in the wrong size so they're way too big.
WWII was interesting enough on its own why do you have to add scifi bullshit to it anyway
>>96650274Fantasy dorks are repulsed by history
>>96643632Warlord can’t accept that their only successful property is bolt action (and they fucked that up with 3rd edition)They even tried to reboot tank war and my LGS sold 0 of their copies, they’ve had to request permission to sell the components separately
>>96650274That's why it's called Weird War. Tho it would be refreshing to see a setting that's more gorunded alt-history continuation of WW2. Like maybe Soviet Union gets decimated by a plague and war rolls on much, much longer.
>>96650299What did 3rd edition do to fuck it up? People in my local area still seem to play it
>>96650328To name the complaints I’ve seen, my scenes just dropped it entirely because it’s not fleshed out>attempt to make the rules as close to GW to draw in new olayers>cover saves because remembering +1-1 was too hard>snails pace release of army books>’no free units’ has left a lot of armies feeling less flavourful (Russian horde)>the force selector is worse than the originalTo name a few, some are petty but overall it was overhaul when really we just needed shit like MMGs fixed
>>96650296I’m a fantasy dork myself but Germany basically made fantasy weapons. The railway artillery gun is so outlandish it sounds made up. Same with the sturmtiger and flamethrower tanks. The wildest part about Germany is that these weren’t prototypes, they actually made these and fielded them in some capacity
>>96650406Nearly everyone had flamethrower tanks
>>96650447Yeah that’s true. I was bringing it up just as an interesting weapon in WWII, the difference being that it was actually effective unlike railway artillery or the sturmtiger. That more goes to every major power’s military doctrine and methods were pretty interesting. Russia’s pragmatism, Japan’s zealotry, America’s overwhelming war economy, Britain’s navy and air power. Every nation brought something unique and I’ve had a lot of fun learning about it over the past couple months.
>>96650085So, if you paint them as nazis, will he come to your house and take the miniatures away?
>>96650237See the post above you:>>96650223>a universally loved concept of Weird War 2Its just how it is, some people think its the most boring and unoriginal crap, and others think its amazing. In reality its just a small niche genre, K47 will give its fans some new toys to buy and collect, next to Dust 47/Dust Warfare and the Wolfenstein minis and what else is out there.In around 2 years from now, it will be as dead as all the other failed Weird War 2 games, because the genre simply has not enough originality.
>>96650447Massive rail(road) guns weren't exactly a German WW2 exclusive either. Here's one that served the US quite well in WW1. And the ultimate wonderweapon of the war was cooked up in Los Alamos...
>>96650520That’s not the issue and personally I prefer playing as Wehrmacht. It cheapens the game if you have to clean up the bad parts of history to not offend people and sell to a wider scope.
>>96650360>To name the complaints I’ve seen,So you do not play it?>attempt to make the rules as close to GW to draw in new olayersHow so? How are the Rules now closer to GW (which GW game?) than Bolt Action V2?>snails pace release of army booksSame as before? Remember V2 release? It was the same, and it did not "kill" Bolt Action>>’no free units’ has left a lot of armies feeling less flavourful (Russian horde)One free infantry squad did not make an army a horde. Sad change tho. But not something that "fucks up" a game.>the force selector is worse than the originalIs it? How so? The option to have multiple regiments adds a lot of variety and also realism (if you care) to the list building
>>96650569>It cheapens the game if you have to clean up the bad parts of history to not offend people and sell to a wider scope.I really dont understand this. How is the game better or worse if there are real nazis, "fake" nazis or no nazis in it? What would "literally hitler" add to the game besides a small box of cringe fluff in a rulebook?If i wanted a hitler mini, i could get the mecha hitler from crooked dice, or from the wolfenstein board game, use the rules for a generic german whatever leader and nobody could stop me.
>>96643632>Alternate reality game where WW2 continues to 1947>No E-series, paper panzers or now fully developed prototypes, no IS-3s, walker Bulldogs, no nuclear elements>its heckin nazi zombies, werewolves and mutants with schlocky faux-german names, mechs, laser guns and jetpacks!
>>96643638>>96643650>>96650223If I were to play this game, and this is a big "maybe," I would eff with the timeline a lot more. I would basically HOI4 / Harry Turtledove my own setting. I don't know anything about Captain America but some kind of analogous supes can go in there. >maybe the Confederacy fought in WW1>maybe Germany won WW1>kitbash in some stuff from 19th century and earlier >invent some ImagiNations like New England as a countryUsing zombies and werewolves and wearbears snd mecha snd robots is all redundant if everyone can do everything so I would smoothe that out too. A nation should have one of these as a strength. There should be assymetry in games by what you leave out. I don't take cataphracts to a skirmish
>>96650590>I really dont understand this. How is the game better or worse if there are real nazis, "fake" nazis or no nazis in it?because its a world war 2 game. because the nazis were a major power that, at the point in the war the game takes place in, had inducted a majority of the remnants of the imperial german army into the party as the waffen ss. Writing them out of the game makes it significantly less of a WWII game. Wanna make them possessed demons or monsters or whatever? Turn hitler into a cyber horror? Fine, do anything but say “oh yeah the problematic faction isnt here anymore please buy our game.” Its lame. lame and gay.
>>96650406>>96650447Nearly everyone had railroad artillery too. The Germans just seemed to have been the only one to try to install naval weapons on a tank, mainly because they had some navel rocket artillery that would not fold the tank in on itself every time you pull the trigger.
>>96650764>because its a world war 2 gameSays who? Its alternate history>at the point in the war the game takes place inIn 1947>had inducted a majority of the remnants of the imperial german army into the party as the waffen ssIn 1947, the party was disbanded, the waffen ss branded as criminal organisation and former leaders dead, in prison, or in argentina>Writing them out of the game makes it significantly less of a WWII gameYou might be onto something here. Its an alternate history game. And in this alternate history, the nazis were dethroned, and some other stuff happened. You dont like it? Fine. But it does not make the game better or worse if hitler is alive in the background. If you need cyber hitler in your game, get a model. The game allows you to do it.
>>96643638Nah, I wouldn't buy a Weird War game that just slaps crap in without any consideration for doctrine.If I just want to play with an odd grab bag of pulp units, I might as well play Malifeux or Anima Tactics.
>>96650982Sadly pretty much all Weird War 2 games do just that. Slap in some "cool" units without any thought.
>>96650949My point is that you can fantasize or imagine here but the larger than life and fantastical weapons the world built at the time means you don’t have to imagine these things. They actually happened, you can even see the scraps of the weapons in person. You should see them in person if you can. It’s not the same as a picture of it or imagining it, there’s something different about seeing it with your own eyes.
>>96650977>In 1947, the party was disbanded, the waffen ss branded as criminal organisation and former leaders dead, in prison, or in argentinaYes, but the war didn’t end in this timeline.>You dont like it? Fine. But it does not make the game better or worse if hitler is alive in the background.Frankly no, I didn’t like it. That’s my opinion and we can agree to disagree here. It’s not that I think the idea warlord presents can’t work here, I just think the way it was done shows an intent to censor that will permeate through the game and make it flavorless over time. Then again I’ll admit that most days I’m fairly pessimistic and it’s entirely possible that I’m wrong.
>>96651054>Yes, but the war didn’t end in this timeline.It didn't, but the Nazis were dethroned. There were several attempts on Hitlers life in RL, is it so outlandish to assume one actually succeeded and that there was a coup?
>>96651337Yeah it could work. It’s just not for me.
>>96651337If it's WW2 pulp without Nazis they want, they could've ripped off Blake and Mortimer instead.
>>96643650>>96650085Ahhhhh that massive fucking faggot is involved. Now the Germany retcons make sense.
>>96650977Literal cuck logic. I bet you make your wife's boyrfriend a nice cuppa when he's done with her you fucking poofter.
>other nations get nothing but resins >most the new designs are soulless slop without the industrial war economy feelI wonder why
>>96643632/v/-style posts like this should result in the mods doxxing you and banning you for 3 years.
>>96652799because this game isn't geared towards people who actually care about WWII
>>96650237Is there a point in being original when no single weird war setting/property has broken through in any meaningful capacity?Until one actually has some success, every new attempt might as well crib enthusiastically from its failed predecessors. Because whichever new one finally makes a dent will be the thing that future versions are forever compared to (other than by nerd historians who will be popping up in tg threads to be like, "well actually the first appearance of Wehrwulfen was not in Konflikt 69 but in 1997's Kōd Heimgerungderfackinfallschetts"
>>96651054>and make it flavorless over time. That's probably just my take on "weird war" games in general, but they all are absolutely flavourless. It's just random crap slapped into ww2, often without any thought or plan. Just "oh, zombies are cool" and "we should have a unit of werewolves too" "soviets should totally have some kind of were bears" etc. Each of these things in itself could be cool, and each would have a big impact by itself, but as it's the unwritten rule in weird war games is that everything exists at once and nothing seem to really influence how the war is fought. And that's, in my opinion, is the biggest reason those games have very little staying power.
>>96643632You talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded.
>>96650085In fairness, as a (highly amateur) historic warfare appreciator, a hypothetical WW2 gets a lot cooler if you cut out the funny Moustache Austrian and all the Waffly SS bullshit.Not just for the Holocaust, but also for how the military and funding actually ended up being handled.Yes the SS had sexy fucking uniforms. But everything else about them, from their performance, to their propaganda use, and the slow shafting of every other unit in the German armed forces for the SS, was shit. Same with the whole political angle they took. Yes they looked cool, but past that very fake facade it was no different in retardation to Pol Pot.You don't pick a fight with the majority of the developed world, and also try to make handpicked sociopolitical statements about ethnic aristocracy or the inferiority of other groups.When it is done ironically or at a low level, it's kinda funny. When it's taken seriously it's cringe.Give me an alt-history where Goering is the Dictator-figurehead of Nazi Germany, being advised by Goebbels.>>96650274Historial wars get exponentially more interesting when you start asking 'what if' about things.Admittedly, I'd want to see 'what if's about other things than werewolves and jetpack soldiers with laser rifles, but a what if is a what if.
>>96655709>In fairness, as a (highly amateur) historic warfare appreciatorYou are the Dunning-Krueger effect personifiedPlease speed run your way to the part of the curve where you shut the fuck up and never open your mouth again
>>96655603>"soviets should totally have some kind of were bears"Soviet Monke with a belt-fed submachine gun is a step too far, apparently. So are suicide bomber dogs.>>96655709>and and all the Waffly SS bullshit.But the Waffen SS were the ones who experimented with odd weapons, simply because the Heer cucked them out of the Heer's procurement.
>>96655709>Give me an alt-history where Goering is the Dictator-figurehead of Nazi Germany, being advised by Goebbels.And what would that change? Their political views were identical to Hitler's, and Göring in particular being a hardcore nazi, which lead him to establish a Luftwaffe field army, because the Beer was not "nazi" enough for his taste, and he felt it necessary to have politically reliable luftwaffe officers to lead Luftwaffe field divisions (the plan kinda sucked, and they performed badly and were transformed to Wehrmacht divisions by 1943, but still).
>>96650764This coming from the fa/tg/ay wanting to play fully historically faithful Nazi SS because "They look cool"?>>96655756You misspelled Were-Tigers.>But the Waffen SS were the ones who experimented with odd weaponsYes, but the existence of the SS themselves basically just made things harder on all the other Wehrmacht, by hogging the political limelight and getting all the toys, parades, spun legends and responsibilities, instead of giving them out meritocratically to companies and soldiers that actually earned theirs organically.For every SS or SS/Nazi Party aligned WW2 german Ace, Hero, or Legend, there is almost always a far better Ace, Hero or Legend found elsewhere, who got no credit, support or even recognition. Sometimes this was because they were, as soldiers, apathetic and critical of the Reich's policies and shit takes. Other times, it was just because they weren't physically Aryan enough.But it's not just the SS. It's the influence of the Nazi party, and Hitler, on wider scale strategy and military development, which got progressively worse and worse as time went on.
>>96643632It looks too goofy for me to consider playing.
>>96655887Nah. Soviet Monkes. They were experimenting with human-orangutan hybrids.
>>96650590If it's so inconsequential, why change it?
>>96655922Communist monkeymen would make the whole "I've never killed a fellow man, only communists" line even funnier in context
>>96650406Everyone had superweapons.Its just that british ones were on warships and were so good they became global standard.
>>96655709>a hypothetical WW2 gets a lot cooler if you cut out the core and cool part of WW2Either shit taste or retard with rosy ideals instead brains.
>>96655756Pootin monke...
>>96655756>Soviet Monke with a belt-fed submachine gun is a step too far, apparently.Call it "homo sovieticus" and we are good
>>96655887>You misspelled Were-Tigers.As the other fella pointed out for you - there were experiment with human-monkey hybrids. They also had prototype belt-fed submachine guns that looked like tiny ass MG42s, which would reliably trigger the Nazi players. As for the Germans, drop the zombies, they should just start Frankensteining their soldiers. They might be running outta men, but they sure aren't running outta bodies yet.
>>96656400A better option would be to drop the whole horror aspect from them altogether, it's done to death and incredibly out of character for them. Squeaky clean super soldiers that double as propaganda pieces work better for them. Hauptmann Großdeutschland and the Übersoldaten, except they wear power armour instead of capeshit clown costumes. Mad science fits the soviets better, New Soviet Men that are Frankenstein's monsters but fanatically communist, indoctrinated from 'birth' and serving under the NKVD, and dog- and ape-men used as shock troops. Zombies are right at home among US forces, controlled by enlisted bokors from deep, dark South, as are were-creatures of the skinwalker shamanic variety. Japan can have golems on account of their animistic beliefs, each set with the dog tags of a fallen hero of the Empire and inhabited by his spirit (according to the japs themselves, whether that's true or not should remain a mystery). I'm at a loss regarding what classic stuff could work for UK and France. Maybe something with a religious tone, like actually returned ancient heroes (Arthur, Roland, Jeanne, etc) and their companions, either in the flesh or as ghosts?
>>96649781Great Value hellghast
>>96643650> GavYuck. Thanks for the heads up I'll avoid. I'm sure ze/zhem/zir US Airborne Rangers are in the next box release
>>96650666Yes and also none of that stuff is even well executed, particularly in the new sculpts where almost everything is extremely cartoony and stupid looking and seems really out of place among the bolt action models.Its just a bit shit in general.
>>96656791to be fair warlord games paints their minis like shit and it makes the sculpts look about 5x worse than they actually are. The minis for bolt action for example are actually pretty damn good
>>96656737They are from first edition, so they are proper nazis
>>96656727>A better option would be to drop the whole horror aspect from them altogether, it's done to death and incredibly out of character for them.We are talking about a fantasy 1947 Wehrmacht, not a fantasy 1939 Wochenschau. People tend to forget that Frankenstein's monster was a person. Its birth was monstrous, it was resistant to cold enough to live in the arctic without much trouble, but it fundamentally was a person. The Germans would appreciate such soldiers and Goebbels would simply have to make people work over time to put the right spin on it.>Mad science fits the soviets betterNaturally, because Soviet leadership in the fields of... what exactly again?>Zombies are right at home among US forcesYes, the army that had ice cream barges and steak dinners would rob graves for bodies.>FranceThey are a normal Bolt Action army. A french comic made that joke already when it made Tintin the only survivor of their World Wars superhero generation.
>>96657022>Soviet leadership in the fields of... what exactly again?Pseudoscience, including cooky biology. Especially cooky biology.>the army that had ice cream barges and steak dinnersAnd the country this folklore monster comes from, and which has the mystic tradition that is allegedly responsible for it. And a political class cynical enough to use both if/when things don't go as planned and, say, either D-day or the Sicily landings are disastrous failures and they have to pick up the pieces fast.>They are a normal Bolt Action armyLame. An excuse for lack of creativity and imagination. They need something of their own.
>>96657083>Lame. An excuse for lack of creativity and imagination.They got the leftovers and old gear, so it makes sense that they'd be still running Garands when everybody else is switching to laser rifles.
>The new minis are still in resin>new infantry are out of scale with older stuff>The background fluff is sanitized dogshit >Bolt Action 3 rules where you need more specific K47 shit and they removed most special options to building
>>96657083his point with the American one is it doesn’t fit America’s war doctrine. We didn’t use ghetto shit our military was overfunded to hell. We were using milled steel submachine guns for a good period which in wartime is basically pulling up to battle with a patek watch. Our mainstay service rifle was a semi auto when everyone else was using bolt action guns, where even the second best funded in terms of small arms was still mainly using bolt action kar98k. Hell, the garand was almost given a fuckin proprietary cartridge before eisenhower put a foot down on that wasteful retardation and had it chambered for 30-06 which was already stocked and in mass production still. So no, the USA would not do desperate moves akin to satanic black magic on a whim
>>96657376>Bolt Action 3 rules where you need more specific K47 shit and they removed most special options to buildingESL much?
>>96649781I think my biggest issue with the game isn't the lore or rules changes, but that the models look so dated and are so expensive. These look worse than DUST models from 15 years ago. I'd stick to actual Bolt Action as at least there are good historical model makers out there like the Perry brothers and all the companies that make 1/48 model tanks.
>>96650520You people are so dense and deliberately miss the point. The idea is to "sanitize" games. You could play anything you want (unless they find a way to cancel you or pressure you), but that would imply giving money to woke industries that hate you and want to indoctrinate you or put on some PG-13 censorship but for grown-upsinb4 you're just a bigot chud it's just a far-right conspiracy theory debunked by professional fact-checkers™!!!!1
>>96657432This is also while the US was providing meat on credit to half the planet, approximately half of all Soviet aviation fuel and entire fucking factories to the little 90 IQ steppe chimps. The US was fighting two wars at once AND giving their allies everything from food to frontline tanks. German and Nip POWs got mindbroken seeing US logistics and US civilians basically completely unaffected by the war they were starving to death to insufficiently supply.
>>96658127Maybe because those are old models?
>>96650085Somehow this feels more (and I hate this word) problematic, you're literally whitewashing the Nazis with 'nah see if Hitler went away they'd be PC villains'
The fundamental underpinning of weird and alt ww2 is "what if there was a secret weapon or twist that kept the war going?" and it doesn't really make sense if everyone gets them perfectly equally. If germany gets mechs and america gets mechs and everyone gets mechs then germany loses, but with mechs.The fundamental appeal tends to land at germany pulling a big boner on everyone at the last minute and summoning hell or inventing mechs so everyone gets put on the back foot because of this.
>>96662414This. But so far, not a single game gets this right, because everyone else has to have some cool stuff too. And this leads to either "everyone has mechs" or to a random mix of all sorts of fantasy units slapped into each nations armies. Or both. If Germany had some sorts of super mechs, the others might try to build some super anti mech guns, and eventually would experiment to build their own mechs, but giving them some equally strong mechs right from the start makes things just boring. If done right, there should be a early/mid/late period for weird war too.>earlyfaction A has weird alien/demon shit and first such units appear on the battlefields, the others panic and you might see some improvised counter measures >MidMore weird stuff from faction A, more refined counter measures and first experiments with alien tech/magic or whatever of the others>LateEach nation has their weird unit rosterPretty much all weird war 2 games jump straight to "late", ignoring everything before. If there would be "early war Konflikt 47" (in 1943), the useablity of regular bolt action armies would be way better too.
>>96662350Nazis in games these days are just cartoon villains anyway. Nobody cares about political nuances.
>>96643650>Gav is involved
>>96650541Can I sacrifice a jew to power up my attacks?
>>96662454As much as I hate to say anything positive about the piece of shit setting that is the Iron Harvest, it did a decent job at justifying that skip - mechs and all the weird tech was invented in the last war and now, enough time has passed for it to diffuse amongst all major powers and create a new military meta.On second though Gundam is probably the best case of this progression in general fiction. With Zeon achieving ultimately unsustainable gains, because at the time, Federation had nothing to effectively counter their mobile suits, only for the situation to turn 180, when Feds start pumping out their Gundam derrivatives.
>>96643632People think this is mid because they toned down the NazisThe game is actually mid because no one outside of Britain gives a fuck about warlord games and even less people give a fuck about something that was obviously meant to appeal to the 40k crowd
>>96663244I give a fuck about warlord games as a burgoid. been having fun painting and playing bolt action with friends
>>96650085>an evil cultWas it the thule society by chance?
>>96662454the worst part about the late war aspect of this game, and other weird war 2 games, is it fails to outline any real consequences of the war going late and handwaves how the side on the backfoot held out for so long. war going late is catastrophic for everyone but especially for the side that has superiority in technology and preparation, but is otherwise outnumbered. late war germany after the soviet counterattack was on the backfoot the whole time, they couldn’t attack and they had to attack, so the war was over they were just holding out. The consequences of this showed in their army as well, flak guns on the light armor because there was no more aurforce, and volksgrenadiers and volksturm to make up for no more army.
>>96663498no that would actually make sense, its a fully fictitious cult named green vault.
>>96663522Exactly. Its not only K47 that is like this, but pretty much all games/fiction in this little genre.They all are: "Wouldn't it be cool if there were mechs/zombies/aliens/magic/vampires etc in WW2"-the game. That in itself can be fun, and making up weird looking things can be fun too, and building/painting such models is fun too. I have a 1/72 Haunebu by Squadron myself, because it is just a fun and nice looking model. I even used it for terrain/objective in Bolt Action a few times. (escorting a certain VIP there for example). But without any beef, those things just remain very shallow, and they become boring quickly.
