(Cyber-)Generations Edition>Cyberpunk 2020 vs. Cyberpunk RED?Cyberpunk 2020 is the second edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG that focuses on simulation gameplay and has a black trenchcoat aesthetic.Cyberpunk RED is the fourth edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG that is set after Cyberpunk 2020 following the Fourth Corporate War, focuses on more balanced gameplay and is more streamlined but has less content.>Cyberpunk Rulesets (The Vault) (May not have all updated rulebooks, check official sources for updates):bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4Md>Resources for RED:https://datapool2045.net/>RED free-DLC and extra content:https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloads/>RED Easy Mode is available for FREE:https://rtalsoriangames.com/cyberpunk/>Errata Pages:https://rtalsoriangames.com/errata/>Character Sheets:https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloads/>Previous Thread:>>96509179>Thread Question 1:What keeps you playing Cyberpunk after all these years?>Thread Question 2:Have you ever played as a single character through the multiple eras of the setting? (i.e., playing your 2013/2020 character in a RED game)
>tq1I think cyberpunk is the only universal setting for crime, the same way sword and sorcery is the only universal setting for tomb raiding. Crime in most settings is a means to an end, or an unfortunate secondary consequence of pursuing a primary goal, or it is just because the players are by their very nature sociopathic. In cyberpunk games you aren't breaking the law because it's a barrier between you and your goals, you are breaking the law because breaking the law is your lifestyle. Whether you're on the street or in the highrises your career is "criminal". You kill, steal, lie, and cheat your way to money, power, and fame. You might follow the law occasionally because it serves your purposes, but in the end you are going to get paid by breaking all the rules. And because this is the standard mode of play, that means other social currencies are in effect. Your street cred, your professional rep, your CV, your looks. Any game can have you break into an office to steal a document, in cyberpunk you steal the document because you're a forger and known quantity as a second story guy in the community.As a result there's always something new to do. A new heist, a new gadget, a new complication, and generally the divide between rich and poor makes it so you can face off against a wide array of colourful antagonists. Your campaigns range from street trash to gangsters to mercenaries to corporate killsquads, on Monday you are escorting a rich guy to the club, on Thursday you're doing battle with an IFV. You think the biker knights posergang fit into Traveller? You think the stolen bioweapon fits DND? NO! Only in Cyberpunk! ONLY in Cyberpunk! Order now!
>>96646458Asking this here again because I cant get anyfeedback anywhere else, but is there any repositories online for Fuzion content?
>>96647873Fuzion is such a small fish it might not exist any longer, not as standalone material. I do not know, did my rounds to get an oversight, and there was a complete absence. It might be cannibalised by things like Mekton, so if you want Fuzion content you look at its spawn. Wikipedia has a list of systems using Fuzion and that is probably your best bet.
>>96646182>TQ1Honestly, part interlock, part setting. Interlock is very fun for combat and, if we change hacking, being the weakest point in cyberpunk (i use run.net or GURPS rules depending on my mood), it's very good at giving that hard combat, harder social type of game. Setting only adds to that, since it has sourcebooks for most of the interesting places you can make your campaign in. >TQ2I had a reverse case, where I had an anti-biotech techie in RED and then played him in 2020.
>>96649419>I had a reverse case, where I had an anti-biotech techie in RED and then played him in 2020.Did you play a younger version of him or was it more of a "same character, different universe" kind of thing?
Not a fan of the mantis blades
>>96653208I'm sorry for your current affliction and I hope you get well soon.
>Made smasher-esque NPC who's shtick is directly attacking cyberware and electronics forcing players to undergo surgery again to replace their destroyed stuffIs this too mean?
>>96653654When I want to hurt my players I send an ordinary dumbass in who just cuts their limbs off with targeted attacks. So no. As long as you don't gloat they can't pin it on you, they don't want you to know this but player limbs are free, you can just take them, I have 48 arms.
>>96646182>TQ1It's probably one my least explored genres and I want to change that. And like Mike I crew up on a lot more anime cyberpunk instead of western cyberpunk. >>96653654I like your style. I know RED pretty well so if that's your system of choice I could suggest ways to max crit chances that are totally legal within the rules, then suggest more that are just unhinged tech upgrades perfect for a Terminator. I'm actually surprised that 2077 Adam Smasher didn't just get 'and if he deals damage there is a crit too'. I'm desperately holding out for hardened bosses and mega-bosses that will just give ref's carte blanche to make up bullshit boss-only abilities.Anyway, pic related is the best crit rates in RED. There are also martial arts that let your NPC get a crit but without the +5 damage by doing some tricks, and all sorts of flavors of EMP (grenades, guns, and Black Chrome had EMP fists). Crits are your best way to get destructions, but if you want to tech-upgrade or bump a weapon up by a price category you can do a lot more.
In your game, where do you draw the line with cops for lawful and unlawful killings? Same as the real world (and 2020 Protect and Serve iirc)?>poses an immediate and probable lethal threat to yourself or othersMore relaxed?>Did not comply with an order to dispurseMore strict?>Have to submit forms 2a-5 and 337-blue to the DA's office before drawing your sidearmTurning it up or down could make for an interesting chapter. One real life example of this was Queensland in the 70s/80s.The premier (boss man of the state) was corrupt as fuck, and introduced a law that essentially gave the police free reign to do whatever they liked. If the police didn't like your look (long hair, wrong race, etc.) they could and would beat the snot out of you
Shouldn't the total dominance of mega corps give rise to radical political ideologies and movements to bring them down?
>>96654843Depends on the cop. I'll stick to the first example and selectively use whatever else I like. They're just vessels for the hammer dropping either way and that is a sometimes-treat.
>>96646182For a game where the girl on the cover is noticeably not wearing armor, you'd think RED's system would do more to mechanically incentivize players getting subdermal armor.
>>96656281>I'll stick to the first exampleThat one makes the most sense for me too, generally speaking. Running a campaign where the PCs have badges makes for some interesting use for changing where this line is drawn.Say for one story arc, a new district attorney/chief of police/police-regulations-maker brings in these extremely strict rules or engagement. They're promoted as protecting liberal values, but the real reason is to temporarily hamstring the police to give a lot more breathing room for some scoundrel(s) to enact his dastardly deeds
>>96656747I think it's important to keep players guessing, especially when it comes to law enforcement, because you never want them feeling safe, and especially not feeling safe calling the cops.
How far do you guys push the envelope when it comes to sci-fi tech? I keep going back and forth on whether to introduce a guy with teleportation powers or if it would be a little too far out there and unbelivable
>>96656622RED seems to discorage players from getting any cyberware at all. Even basic stuff like a Neural Link and Interface Plugs will cost you a month's rent and a significant amount of Humanity Loss.
>>96659465Legitimately who writes this stuff?
Is it ever mentioned in Deep Space how long it actually takes to get from Earth to the other places in the solar system?
>>96660105William Gibson. The only person in the Sprawl series with more than one piece of cyberware, IIIRC, is Molly Millions, who has three (razor claws, implanted mirror shades, and the chip slot from her whoring days). Also recall that the entire motivator for the heist in Burning Chrome is so some chick can fly to Chiba and get a pair of name-brand cyber eyes with no extra features.
>>96658637I'd say it's far beyond scope of cyberpunk tech bullshittiery, sure their world exceeds ours by a lightyear in some cases, such as cloning, cybernetics (duh), nanomachines, and apparently artificial grafity (and I hate show for it).If you're hellbent on it, please elaborate how exactly would you want to use it in game.IE, I'd buy no problem a dude that has an X amount of bodies and swaps conciousness using soulkiller modified for long range data transmission or some other bullshit, but a origina dude that straight up wormholes from place to place is bruh for me.
>>96659465Powergamers and the like seem to omit the fact that actual characters in universe are very low on cyberware.If you check all starting characters in RED folks dont have more than a few pieces, up to five.If you check degerunners inc they also have only few augmentations, up to ten in a case of a solo.Even Smasher statblock, which is epitome of a minmaxer has like 20 ish cyberware pieces in 2020, and below 20 in ERMK (probably given the fact that RED amalgamated some options).
Is there actually a reason to use guns in Cyberpunk RED?(Apart from aimed shots?) A 3d6 melee weapon is objectively better than a 3D6 handgun, Same for a 4d6 melee weapon, in comparison to a 4d6 pistol or a rifle. (Ignoring martial arts of course, for clear reasons.) I've been running RED since the start of this year, and the game seems to devolve into my players almost entirely trying to rush down and hit enemies in melee, just by the nature halving armor.
>>96661058>>96661493Yeah but going low Chrome just isn't very interesting to alot of players. Not mechanically or thematically. As much as R.Tal like to think otherwise, Red is primarily a crunch and combat heavy game. More Cybeware=more power/options so naturally player want to stuff as much Cyberware as possible in their characters.I think a core problem with Red is the low tech poverty simulator that it tries to create is at odds with what most people expect from a Cyberpunk TTRPG. Lifestyle/Housing expenses are a good way to ground the player into the setting, but if every session is stuggling to get by with no sense of progression, things get old quickly.
>>96661058Last time I checked, this is Cyberpunk, not "Neuromancer: The RPG". What does your statement have to with anything related to the game itself?>"B-B-But Cyberpunk was inspired by-"Shut the fuck up.>>96661493How does any of what you said address my actual grievance?
>>96661867Unless you set up a combat encounter to specifically discourage Melee combat, Melee is always superior.Technically Ranged combat's big benefit is you can't dodge Ranged attacks without 8 Ref, but any enemies without 8 Ref probably have garbage evasion anyway.
>>96661867>More concealable gun types than melee weapon types.>Guns can use attachments and different ammo types.>Guns attack from range while melee weapons require you to be within two meters of your target.>Guns are more intimidating than blades or clubs, unless the blade or club is huge.Of course, if your players are having fun in unga bunga land, let them, but don't hesitate to remind them why most people in Night City carry a gun.
>>96662088>this game was specifically designed to replicate media in which characters generally only have a few pieces of cyberware instead of being more metal than meat>therefore, players are discouraged from cramming their characters full of cyberware by making it expensive in two dimensions If you don't want to play this game, play something else that encourages high-ware players. Your grievance is retarded and so are you.
>>96662234As >>96662069 said, it's simply not interesting. Why would I want my character, who is supposed to be a career criminal in this fucked up cyberpunk world, to be no better than an NPC when it comes to 'ware?I feel bad for your players, if you even have them. Not only do they have to deal with the high costs for getting even the most basic shit implanted, they also have a brainless mongoloid for GM who sees Neuromancer on the list of inspirations and thinks it means "low cyberware".
>>96662185
>>96661867Melee is stronger than ranged when both are in melee. Place a shooter on a roof, or 500m away, or behind an iron gate, or on top of a moving car, or in a flying machine, and things change.
>>96662290NTA, but you want Shadowrun, not Cyberpunk.Imagine being upset that the foundational work of the genre doesn't support their power fantasy! It's almost like a dystopian techno-fuedalist setting doesn't gel with D&D concepts of personal power.
>>96662556No one said anything about a power fantasy, you smarmy, rancid cunt. There's no justifiable reason why the most basic of cyberware should cost as much as it does on both levels.
>>96662670>There's no justifiable reason why the most basic of cyberware should cost as much as it doesBecause cyberpunk was not and has never been about the cyberware in an individual, and all about the decadent, corrupt, high tech world.You don't get it because you want the D&D concept of individual power (and video games) to have importance; that's why I brought up Shadowrun. It will give you exactly what you want.
>>96662687>Because cyberpunk was not and has never been about the cyberware in an individual, and all about the decadent, corrupt, high tech world.How does that invalidate what I said? You're just saying whatever now.>You don't get it because you want the D&D concept of individual power (and video games) to have importance; that's why I brought up Shadowrun. It will give you exactly what you want.Stop pretending you know what I want and stop recommending that I play a game I got sick of a long time ago. You obviously have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, so this will be the last reply you get from me, you fucking retard.
>>96662556>>96662687Personally I'd enjoy Red ALOT more if it focused on individual power fantasy aspect. That's a big part of the appeal of the 2077 vidya and Red basically owes it's existence and continued success to that game. This idea that "true" Cyberpunk is some kind of grungy street level setting with vulnerable protagonists is very narrowminded and ignores alot of Cyberpunk media.
>>96662556Actual child trying to lecture other people how Cyberpunk is played.
>>96662774>This idea that "true" Cyberpunk is some kind of grungy street level setting with vulnerable protagonists is very narrowminded and ignores alot of Cyberpunk media.At the end of it all, the truth is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Some people want a grungy street level campaign (which, admittedly, is what RED is geared towards), while others want something on a higher power level, which is where things like FBCs and borg weapons can make an appearance. The Anon you're replying to is just an idiot who doesn't seem to know that and feels the need to justify really bizarre mechanical choices with his drivel.
>>96659465Neural Links and Plugs are fine because they have an actual purpose, I don't have issues with prices, if anything I'd be fine with some upgrades being made more expensive if it meant they provided some real value.The issue I have with subdermal armor in RED particularly is that its basically just starter armor but expensive. It slowly self-heals but that really isn't all that useful. It seems like the main sell is to just give niche social benefits like the ability to enter a club while saying you still look like a normal person. This is a dumb philosophy for cyberware as it mechanically hampers your social abilities by default.
>>96662835This. Red bringing in new players is cool and all, but god damn is it tiresome to see them trying to redefine reality. It's like the new generation of RPG players aren't content blazing their own path, they have to make it so their path retroactively was the only path. Power fantasy Cyberpunk is as old as Cyberpunk itself, it's not like FS Shockwave sprang out of the devil's hands, fully formed, to waylaid and trick the faithful streetrats.
>>96662856Maybe the solution would be for non-implanted armor to have some kind of negative mechanical effect on social situations, rather than relying on the GM to remember that the PCs shouldn't be wearing MetalGear to the fancy corpo dinner party.
>>96662920I think the simple fix is to just add something like 2020's armor-layering system back, even if notably weaker. Even like 1-2 extra SP would be worth it imo.
>>96662290Again, if the game that R Tal wrote isn't the game you want to play, why are you playing it? This isn't a generic system, it's designed with a specific result in mind.If I want a cyberpunk game that encourages everybody being loaded up on ware I'll use Metalhead where running out of IP doesn't mean your character becomes unplayable, it just means you're full.
Question for Cyberpunk 2020When taking two actions under Cybergeneration rules or High Noon Shootout can you also move?
>>96664936Stop posting on 4chan and get back to working on NC45, James.
>>96665322No wonder it's always being delayed the way he shitposts.
What is the Russian name for SovOil?
>>96664936>This isn't a generic system, it's designed with a specific result in mind.Yes and the general criticism is that people dislike that "specific result." People don't find scarcity or grinding for multiple sessions to maybe get a +1 to a gun very interesting. Like seriously, who the fuck looked at the night market rules and said "yes, rolling on a table once a month for random items is much more fun than just letting players buy whatever they want." Telling people to play some obscure dead game instead is not an adequate response.
>>96662856The light armor jack really shouldn't be starter armor, it being so cheap honestly messes with the balance of red if the party are all wearing Ballistic-vests that can ignore most pistol and SMG fire reliably, in a game about urban street combat.Even the game expects it to be mid-tier armor, and that players wouldn't spend half their starting cash on armor. (Same way the writers didn't think all players would max REF 8 to eight and everyone would dodge bullets.)If you think of the Subdermal armor as self-healing mid-tier armor that you'd never have pay for it's repair in a game that where resources are supposed to be slim. It makes sense. But the game doesn't really play out that way in practice. Remember they expect that PCs would actually wear heavier armor. With the insane mobility debuffs of the Flak jacket and Metal-gear.
>>96662869I've been reading Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition lately and I've been drawing alot of parrallels between that game and Red.>Both have poorly formatted corebooks>Both have terrible art>Both try to redefine the setting into something very different from previous edition>Both bake in mechanics to reinforce those setting changes>Both were generally poorly receivedAt this point I'm wondering if V5 was inspiration for Red.
>>96668960LAJ being the default starting armor is fine. The problem is anything heavier is hampered by stupid penalties that negate their benefits. Red's issue is you're pretty optimised from Character Creation with little sense of progression. Most of the gear/cyberware you can get is a side grade rather that something that grants you more power.
>>96662290>who is supposed to be a career criminalThis isn't Shadowrun, there is no requirement to be a criminal. Cyberpunk's core classes include Opinionated Musician, Journalist, Trucker, Yuppie, and Policeman.
>>96669069And all of those classes eventually engage in crime, what is your point?
>>96669055I entirely agree with that, I just think that the starter armor being able to shrug off the majority of attacks from lower tier enemies is rather strange. It reliably shrugs off the majority of 2d6 and 3d6 gun-fire, and sort of kills the sense of "poverty" the game is trying to convey. It is one month's rent, but 1000 eds isn't hard to make, if pro-gear is actually supposed to be costly, keep it out of the character's options in character creation. I think Leather or Kevlar should be the default starting armor, but I suppose the writers might think that makes the game too lethal?
>>96668932>Telling people to play some obscure dead game instead is not an adequate response.Yes it is. It's your gaming group, you can play whatever the fuck you want, and choosing the right system for what you want to play is also the mark of a good GM. Otherwise you end up like those faggots who use D&D for everything.Instead of buying the garbage, eating the garbage, and complaining that it tastes like garbage, put in the effort to find something you actually like the taste of.
>>96669082>can't conceive of playing straight cops trying to hold to their oath among the corruption>no thoughts towards adapting Convoy as a Nomad game>intrepid-but-principled journalism is a foreign concept>has never heard of Eurotour>just me am crime guy, me do heistStay in /srg/.
>>96669152We're discussing Red, not some other system.>>96669175Yeah but then a combat encounter happens and the player commits assault.
>>96669152>Instead of buying the garbage, eating the garbage, and complaining that it tastes like garbage, put in the effort to find something you actually like the taste of.So, are you admitting that RED isn't very good at what it sets out to do?
>>96669108Maybe just up the damage of lower tier weapons?
>>96669019That'd be pretty fucking cursed if true. I see it though.
>>96669019Red is nowhere near as bad as V5 and you know it.
>>96668608Do you want "SovOil" in Cyryllic, an abbreviation for a translation of "soviet oil industry", or how is SovOil translated in russian versions of Cyberpunk?
I have been running a table of RED for a year and a half now, and it’s pretty obvious they need to update the ruleset quite a bit. I wish they would prioritize that instead of retarded “achievement badges,” Roller Derby rules, or god help us, more Elflines Online bullshit. It is reminiscent of D&D5, but they had the excuse of having a minuscule development team.Also, what is the deal with Melissa Wong scenarios?
>>96670296Just checked.1. CoвOйл2. I don't know, maybe CoвHeфть (SovNeft)3. Coвoйл
>>96670323I think the most profound thing I've added to these threads is pointing out that Cyberpunk RED is basically the Skyrim of tabletops. The vanilla is quite awful but the community can add cool stuff like our resident homebrew anon. I also think it's the one tabletop game where you could heavily homebrew for it and nobody would bat an eye (especially since it's sorta baked into the rules with Tech, etc). What rules are annoyed with?
>>96670741I’ve come up with some fixes to the most egregious problems, particularly the economy being fucked. The problem is making sure it works against all the other stuff in the system. I feel like if I am going to buy a rulebook, they ought to have given more thought to how these systems work. Every DLC chance they get, they publish more drivel that shifts the overall gritty street tone to Williamsburg, but with cyber eyes and chromed prosthetics. It is enervating.
>>96670741Yep, at this point I'm running homebrew fixes to most core gameplay mechanics and item/stat/skill/role issues. Honestly, for the most part the systems issues aren't that hard to solve, though solving them may involve tweaking several things in concert to do it. Many of these issues arise from the fact that the Red devs are functionally retarded when it comes to math. What Red has going for it (much like Skyrim) is that the basics of the system are solid if a little too simplified at times. But too much simplicity is much easier to cure than too much complexity is. Adding things in is just a hell of a lot easier than trying to rip things out or change something that is tied to 5 different things at once.
>>96646182How do YOU (yes you, with the grease stain on your t-shirt) design your cyberpunk characters? Typically for D&D I take a character or concept (colonial big game hunter, Epoct's Dream Finder) and make it into rules. Despite booster gangs made of cosplayers with guns, Cyberpunk seems fundamentally harder to design interesting characters for.
>>96670296I guess how is it translated? As I understand in Russian it's called KeroSov and the full world oil industries acronym is SGKP.I'm making a character who is neo-sov and has ties to the corp so I wanted to have them call it be the actual Russian name
>>96671722>KeroSovThe only sources I see that use that point to de-canonised third edition.
>>96671556I think of people I want to fuck and/or kill then I slap a cyberlimb or two on them.
>>96671556Think of personalities, or archetypes of people you'll meet in real life, then twist them to be heightened reality. Then if skills and stats become relevant, assign them as appropriate. You can still do what you're doing, you just need to familiarise yourself with more cyberpunk tropes and themes, because while there are few big game hunters in cities, there's plenty of solos, mercs, runners, scam artists, store owners, corporate sleazebags, couriers, drivers, body guards, spies, beggars, street preachers, prostitutes, mechanics, assassins, concerned fathers, rebellious daughters, ethnic stereotypes, religious nutjobs, hairdressers, gardeners, former explosives ordnance experts, soffit panels, circuit breakers, vacuum cleaners, coffee makers, calculators, generators, matching salt and pepper shakers.
I'll be a GM for a one shot game after a long hiatus for an experienced group who know what's a good game and what's not and I've become a bit nervous as I don't want to give the players a bad experienceWish me luck. Any tips for one shot sessions are welcome
>>96672579Good luck, just remember that everyone's there to have a good time.
>>96671556It's a bleach stain thank you very much. But in general I have either a specific look or piece of cyberware that I then build the whole character around, like a tv screen for a face or having four arms and eyes
>>96671556First, I take a fictional character or a real-world celebrity and then try to imagine what they'd be like if they existed in the world of Cyberpunk, or, I take an existing Cyberpunk character and "remix" the basic concept of them. Then, I run the Lifepath to help refine that initial concept. Finally, I give them a name which either references whomever it was that inspired them or an aspect of their personality. It's an effective method that led to me creating some very memorable characters.
>>96670987The biggest problem I find in red is the economy. Everything else is easily fixed one way or another but the economy is tied to the progression system and several role abilities requiring you to do a lot to rework it. Frankly rather than tying availability to price they should have kept it separate as it causes so many problems that R.Tal themselves have had to break the rule several times. Having everything be monopoly money based also means that it feels like a game when buying things rather than a world even if it makes pricing things easy. Also fixers having flat out the ability to get an item based on price rather than type is annoying and makes player fixers way stronger than most really realize.My biggest example of the economy being fucked is the gunmart engage costing the same as an agent and having the same availability, meaning you have a rocket launcher you can grab off a bodega shelf for 100eb, Thats goofy as shit and while they have a chance of blowing you up, crazed gangers aren't going to care.
>>96670741wait are there people who are trying to seriously salvage that mess? I tried RED a couple of times as a GM and player and it just sucked. Too simple, filled with inconsistent rules, and it seems like it doesn't know what it want's to be. Either a "hardcore" 90s crunch and chart affair updated to modern standards or a storyshitter system with rules take a back seat. I ran on back to Interlock Unlimited and 2020, though the netrunning rules are good its easy enough to backport em.
>>96665192Yes iirc, Move counts as its own separate action in High Noon.
>>96664936Yeah, and isn't that the problem? 2020 was a Cyberpunk game that happened to center around "Night city" as it's generic Anywhere USA city, ala DC comic cities likes Coast city, central city, etc.It works perfectly well as a setting agnostic Cyberpunk game. Cyberpunk RED is about "Cyberpunk: the world of Mike Pondsmith." It's like if D&D's corebook spent 1/3 of it talking entirely about what's going on in Faerun, or Athas. 2020 was far more geared to "Lets give you the rules to recreate Bubblegum crisis, Hard-wired, etc." While RED is entirely about itself.
>>96681279NTA, but how can you say something like that when the second half of the 2020 rulebook was devoted to fluff about Night City and the rest of the world, and when they put out the Night City Sourcebook not even a year later? Also, there's literally nothing stopping you from using Cyberpunk RED's ruleset for your own setting, if you so choose.I have my own issues with RED, but let's not make shit up.
>>96653654Yes, but I love the idea.Probably a little nicer than getting completely merced by Adam Smasher, though.
Just got a 3d printer and I'm thinking of using it to make some Cyberpunk minis. Where's a good place to get ratatatatatatata more STLs?
I'm confused about something related to the Mono-Katana. The rules for it say:>damage dealt by this weapon ignores the target’s armor entirely if it is lower than SP7. Armor with SP7 or higher is still interacted with as normal.Melee weapon attacks already ignore half of a target's armor. Does this mean that if the un-ignored half is less than SP7 that all of the armor is ignored outright, thus providing no protection, or does that not count because the armor isn't *actually* less than SP7?
I'll be running 2020 (2.01) for the first time soon. Post any and all tips, tricks, and NPC stat blocks.
>>96681708I read it as>opponents armor is SP7 or lessIgnore all armor>opponents armor is higher than SP8 or higherNormal damages (ie halving armor)
>>96681763When you put it like that, it makes way more sense. Maybe I'm just retarded.
>>96681279>isn't that the problem?Only if you went into it expecting a generic system and are unwilling to abandon the game if it doesn't meet your needs.>It works perfectly well as a setting agnostic Cyberpunk game.2020 still has intrinsic rules assumptions that the setting you're trying to drop into needs to abide by if you don't want it to fight you, key among them the Humanity system. The only setting I'm aware of with a similar phenomenon is BGC, and even then Boomer Syndrome only appears in AD Police Files, which didn't come out until after CP2020 was released.>Hard-wiredThe CP2013 sourcebook for Hardwired required you to replace the entirety of its network rules to properly match the setting.
Is the guy who sings Ratatata related to Mike Pondsmith or do I just think they look alike because I'm low-key racist?
>>96682055You're probably seeing the beard and making the connection, without looking at the facial structure. Without knowing for certain I am going to assume Pondsmith does not have a reggae\house musician relative in France, and instead chalk it up to face blindness.
Next gig I'm sending my group on is to find a Otaku Savant Programmer who vanished while on commission by their fixer. She is also a complete degenerate who hides her notes/ code in SI goon fics she writes and got the hots for one of her kidnappers already.Pretty excited to run them through it and seeing their slow realization their searching for a complete Fujoshi freak.
>>96653279The virgin Mantis Blade vs. the chad Spurs
>>96682849Your fetish, or just trying to unnerve players?
>>96682930Just thought it'd be funny.
>>96682849GM ERPs his fetish with non-consenting players, news after the movie at 11
>>96683099Pulling things out of your ass, I see
>>96683099How is "Oh, yeah the code for the custom Black ICE this shut in coded is inserted between pages of their SI x Adam Smasher fic" ERP-ing you gonk motherfucker.
>>96681763Anon, armour exactly at 7 still offers protection.
>>96683143>Okay I want to search her for the code>OOOOH TREAT ME ROUGH DADDY you find nothing but a rolled up script for an erotic fan fiction>Alright... I... Read the fan fiction?>OH DON'T READ THAT I AM SO EMBARRASSED you find pages and pages of intimate detail of how Adam Smasher is putting his giant cyberdong into Sexy Inga(?) and rupturing her belly because of the size difference, however, in between the fiction you find something strange that looks like code! Will you interrogate the horny captive??They got you dead to rights, mate, this is what we're all thinking. Are you going to tell us it's going down another way?
>>96683587Yeah. That's how you'd run it. I already said how I'd run it, in the lost you're reply to. Just mention it for a laugh, as a bit of set dressing. You a certified freak projecting your sick desires on an innocent, pure DM like myself.You sick fucking pervert.
>>96683587Choom, Ima be real. It sounds like you want to ERP with your players much more than the guy putting an Femcel Coder as a damsel in distress in his game. Which is pretty tame for the setting, considering how many ads there are for eating ass in 2077 and that Pondsmith was clearly writing one handed at certain points. Shit didn't the shotgun loli in edgerunners jerk a dude off in her first scene? But still, you should learn to jerk off before posting. Cyberpunk may be a horny setting/ genre, but you're too far gone if your fantasizing about how to sexualize other people's games. It just isnt healthy.
>>96682867Man, old Shadowrun art is so cool.
>>96681279Just play 2020. It's the better game. RED fucking sucks.
>>96689438I don't know if I'd say Red sucks. What sucks is the general shittiness of the Red era. I can appreciate it, but I can understand people coming from lighter fantasy RPGs or systems that are more..."charitable" not enjoying the systems or the setting. >No one can afford anything.>No one can source anything.>Everyone hates you and wants to kill you.>You're probably going to die before you get a chance to do anything cool.>Everything sucks, and nothing you do will matter, so fuck you.>"Is there anything that doesn't suck?">"No, now go kill yourself, faggot."I'm being a little hyperbolic, of course, but the best you can hope for is little sprinkles of happiness interspersed in a sea of dark crime drama and a rotating series of bad times that make you go>"I fucking hate this city."I like how the ERMK is essentially >"It's basically RED, but things aren't as shitty."
>>96655295People don't really give that much of a shit about changing the world. They just want to exist within it. Besides, megacorps are normal to everyone so they probably feel that they're just part of the natural order, a good thing.
>>96689567As a corpo, I know nothing of your plebian problems
>>96689863I was thinking of making my backup character an exec so I wouldn't have to deal with all the lifestyle bullshit. Another one of the players has a backup loli lawman(lawoman?). I'd invite her into my private corpo lounge to get free NCPD security detail as well as a line into the NCPD database. Maybe screw them on occasion if they're into me. >You gotta pay your "rent" somehow.
>>96683206Not the other anons but I ran RED for 2 years having simply misread the rules for the railgun/mono katana and assuming it was below and equal, and not just below. It seemed insane that a 5,000eb borg weapon gets clowned on by a 100eb suit of armor especially now with the mimic kit that it can be put into anything.I also thought a clever netrunner could bait multiple black ice at once and slide away from them all but it's just one black ice per turn.
>>96689876>Another one of the players has a backup loli lawman
>>96689876This is a very important question. On a scale of 1 to a lot, how much does that player talk about hair and trains?
>>966912921. They did let me know they have a girlfriend (male). It's not gay for two guys to have their characters engage in sexual relations in a TTG, though. It's for the sake of the narrative. It's a collaborative storytelling process.
I'd love a Clarke and Dawe-style interview where an Arasaka Maritime rep talks with N54 about the auto-replicating mine problem in the same flavor as the front fell off. >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
>>96683206Excuse my misreading, I incorrectly assumed the item's ability was designed to be actually useful.
>>96691841All of the "ignore armour below X" stuff works only on armour that's already chipped.
>>96689863You say that, but we all know you stare at that Garfield poster in your cubicle every Monday.
In 2020 where lies the point of complete overkill? Homebrewing some guns and for one of them I realized as is it would do 9d10 damage, which seems just a tad high
>>96696058Depends on how you stat it I suppose.2020 has an existing 30mm cannon/rifle that does 9D10.
>>96689876She is not a loli she is a 20 something year old weeb that works at ncpd to get the health benefits and a free pass on violence against criminals. Her main shtick is that she is a fucking weeb that works as a vigilante on her own free time to fuel her ever growing addiction of anime and plastic surgery to look more like her 2D idols. She can have a Loli body maybe but i have not yet made that decision.
>>96699229What an obnoxious concept for a character.
>>96699446Yes.
>>96698379The idea was a "handgun", from a manufacturer that does other over the top ET guns, in 12.7mm for big borgs and power armor (going off the recoil rules you need BOD 36 to one hand it)
>hm today I think I will use auto fire on my SMG>spent 240 IP, 5 points of luck, and ten bullets to do the same amount of damage I could by shooting single fireWell shit. Choombas I think heavy pistols are just the way to go. Two World Wars and probably a few Corpo wars too.
>>96701463Autofire is pretty strong. The biggest problem about it is being swingy instead of guaranteed big dick damage. But iirc, the minimum damage you can get from is 15, still enough to ping most armors. Also no aoe autofire for some strange reason
>>96701863 (Me)Autofire having a minimum damage threshold is already strong of itself since you can roll poorly on any other weapon on single shot and not make a dent on your enemies. I've seen players that roll 5 points and less on their attack rolls.
My players jumped into a mystery and I now noticed they intend to brute-force through everything since two of them didn't take notes through the whole thing and prevented the other two from exploring and finding more clues.The first two players didn't write down the password to get in the area in the first place when they reached the gates, then they mentally shut down on finally getting hit by the realization that they can't bruteforce it.
>>96702043>prevented the other two from exploring and finding more cluesPrevent them from doing that in the future.
>>96702097Thought it would be funny to see the consequences of their actions. The latter two can go back and explore just fine.
>>96701863Minimum damage from an SMG is 2. I got super lucky when I rolled boxcars for the damage; probably wouldn't have cracked the armor if I didn't. Tbf my base is super low; I imagine it's a lot better if you're more invested in it pointswise but it's a huge IP sink.
>>96703011Ah shit I confused it with the Helix, my bad.>ARYes, Autofire is really good but it is indeed a huge investment. The upper ranks of SMG autofire can deal 40+ damage. With most people being squishy, that person is nearly guaranteed to drop dead once bullets start flying. Even on the worst roll can drop him to low hp and give him second thoughts if he wants to continue the fight, since the next burst will finish him off. Helix is like 60+ damage.
Cyberpunk was imagined as the dark future where technology, consumerism, and corporatism ruled supreme, a bad ending that brought low the post-war American hegemony. With this reality now manifest but in the lamest way possible, what is the next generation of cyberpunk? Is it solarpunk? Transhumanism?
>>96702043Did the characters forget, or did the players forget?IMHO there is a big difference, unless you also expect the players to do everything else the characters do trivially. Some people like that kinda thing, but I think it would be insane to memorize my characters banking information/crypto wallet shit or whatever.>The fixer asks for your routing number to deliver payment>The number you have given is incorrect, your payment is lost.
>>96704109Both, because they didnt get the clues. I didn't expect them to remember every single thing either but I put emphasis on "you should take notes" when they jumped to the mystery part of the campaign.The first two players blitzed pass every clue they're supposed to acquire and missed nearly everything becase 'its not important to my character', except the other pcs - plus mentioning their characters wrote down things that seem important - that managed the little they could get before they get dragged along and have the searching cut short.They wanted to be part of a mystery without putting effort on it for some reason. I dont know why they expected things to be awarded in a silver platter
>>96692578Bold of you to assume I get to leave my office on the weekends
>>96704574>Expecting the characters are so dumb they can't remember a password that their lives depend on, or that it's not something recorded from an optically implant or on a chip inside them.I am going to say this one is on you. The characters and the players are different, and they receive and retain information differently.This on the same tier as asking "what is the door outside this room painted" and claiming the character doesn't know because the player never asked the doors color when entering.Don't even get me started on the fact that you definitely don't expect to be treated the same way and would probably lose your shit over a player saying something is how you don't want it because you never described it properly, or because you accidentally changed the name of a minor character introduced 10 sessions ago suddenly the pcs claim he is an imposter that can't be trusted.
>>96704676>their lives depend onI would fault him for being a shitty gm too but an earlier post have him mentioning the characters can go back after lacking a piece of the puzzle. >>96702190 real shitty gms punish the players with damage or a trap.They aren't in any danger, they clearly can go on any pace. Only blocking them with a closed gate is likely showing that they need to gather clues, they're in no rush to do so. Probably to ease them in on the genre change, and give them a goal to find the password for entrance.I do the same too because I have a bunch of murderhobos and they had to be slowly taught that they can't go guns blazing on everything.
>>96704676>you accidentally changed the name of a minor character introduced 10 sessions ago suddenly the pcs claim he is an imposter that can't be trusted.Unrelated to the entire thing but I had this bottled up in a whileNPC betrayal happens and my players complains "NPC wouldn't do that, he would've done this!" while ignoring the HUGE GIANT BLARING neon signs that are CONSTANTLY yelling that he is a betrayer and will do it. And they still complain that I'm not playing him right.What the fuck? I have his notes. I have his sheet. I have his goals. I laid down the tells that he will do the thing, even on human perception rolls against him. I am the Referee. Why are they trying to be omniscient? Did they expect a>teehee expectations subverted
>>96704950And by 'not playing him right', I mean they expected him to join them for extra help.
>>96662088>Pondsmith jacked it to Neuromancer>Made TTRPG based on it>Somehow not relatedOk, faggot.If anything, I'd say Pondsmith having "the combat zone"/hotzone and crime everywhere is a departure from Neuromancer. Gibson's work isn't "crime is on every corner." It's "megacorps have beaten folks down and certain folks are highly skilled at poking the internet/doing lawbreaking things to be hired for corpo espionage." Very different from Pondsmith's Gangoons.
>>96662290House rule it or play Shadowrun without the Magic. I'm not sure what you're expecting. Pondsmith wanted folks to "take it to the edge," while being squishy, not fucking power fantasy "YOU WIN!" buttons.
>>96704986>play Shadowrun without the Magicumpossible anon
>>96681279>It works perfectly well as a setting agnostic Cyberpunk game. Cyberpunk RED is about "Cyberpunk: the world of Mike Pondsmith."Like >>96681336 says, 2020 had a ton of fluff between the rulebook rules. You're crazy if you think Pondsmith didn't try to worldbuild.You can still have that "general city" in 4E/RED. Just fucking ignore Pondsmith's intentions and houserule.
>>96704998NTA, but If you admit that Neuromancer and Cyberpunk are very different works with different intentions, then why do you keep comparing them? Cyberpunk is a kitchen sink setting of a variety of different influences.The only way a Cyberpunk campaign would resemble Neuromancer is if you went with an all Netrunner crew, but honestly that doesn't sound like much fun given Red's Netrunning rules.
>>96705161woops meant for >>96704980
>What keeps you playing Cyberpunk after all these years?I just started playing this year. Having fun so far.>Have you ever played as a single character through the multiple eras of the setting? (i.e., playing your 2013/2020 character in a RED game)No...But I am crafting a character that died in 2023 and will be reborn sometime later to play in 2045. It'll be part of a Biotechnica experimental therapy to revitalize critically damaged brains. For narrative plot convenience, they're going to have amnesia. I'm thinking about asking my Ref to allow me to temporarily slip into cyberpsychosis under certain circumstances for a modest boost to stats in exchange for surrendering my character to them. Suffice to say, the character will have some severe brain trauma after being in a coma for about a decade while they put their brain back together.
>>96704799>Only blocking them with a closed gate Locked doors have traditionally been my table's kryptonite, we've been playing together for years but you show them a door with a padlock and they go into existential depression.>how could this happen>why would this happen>where do we go from here>does anyone have a lockpick>oh my god we are truly lost>this is it this is where we die>>96704950>>96704968When players bitch about "that wouldn't happen" they usually mean "this wasn't satisfying", though they're often unaware of this. They identified a pattern, made an assumption, and when that assumption was violated they're dissatisfied. Solutions to this are as varied as what happened, but generally I find tossing them a bone once in a while is preferable to not, and otherwise just stick to your guns. If the notes says he's a rat bastard, then he's a rat bastard, if someone is upset at (you) for that then that ball really is entirely in their court. Everyone's gotta find out where their own line goes between playing to the crowd, and staying true to the original intent.
>>96705814I like this idea.
>>96704980Cyberpunk was influenced by multiple things, and I know you know this, so stop being obtuse and retarded.>>96704986I already told you to get back to work, James.
>>96705161>The only way a Cyberpunk campaign would resemble Neuromancer is if you went with an all Netrunner crewThere's only two runners in the Neuromancer crew, and one of those is a tape recording.
>>96701463You are right that auto fire is a very poorly designed in Red. It is not bad on ARs(though still less effecient that just aimed shots in many scenarios), but is absolute crap on smgs. And that's mostly because Red's designers are terminally retarded at math. Making auto fire it's own skill and giving it a worse DV table to hit was just terrible design. It should have been one or the other. I'll assume that >>96703333 was being earnest and not disingenuous on purpose, but 40+ damage isn't the top ranks of smg autofire. It is a perfect roll. Two 6s on max multiplier for 36 and 5 SP ignoring on the crit. That's a 1/36 chance on the damage roll alone. Factor accuracy into it and it starts to become 1/150ish assuming you have good auto fire skill. The average is 21 assuming you get the full multiplier. The is 1d6 more than a assault rifle or shotgun and after you factor in accuracy to do it the number skew even harder toward the shotgun or assault rifle. Hell, aim shots a very heavy pistol will outpace smg auto fire against all but the most armored up opponents. It's just a terribly designed mechanic in general unfortunately.
>>96700774I would say that 9D10 is definitely too high for a handgun. Like I said, a weapon that can hit that hard by the games own rules is essentially a hand-held autocannon. Obviously that is up to your decision though.The .50 BMG weapons do 6D10
>>96706236everytime I see the topic of autofire come up, a majority of people think its weak. Other than being swingy, I think it seems consistent since you mostly deal the average and it has its own range band. but idk math.autofire even comes with surpressive fire so you get a two for one package deal.>shut up jamesI read the rules.
>>96706236>>96707171Is there any good reason for Autofire to be x2 skill? Really I don't think people would complain as much if you didn't have to sink so much IP into it. Really the easiest way to fix it is just make it a x1 skill, or as you said, making Autofire roll off regular Weapon Skills
>>96707528Because it has consistently the highest raw damage potential, ignores armor in a huge burst instead of shredding it like a ROF2 weapon, and like the second anon in your reply mentioned, came packaged with another skill to fuck up action economy and crowds.
>>96706236>The average is 21 assuming you get the full multiplier.Ignoring giganigga enemies the Ref can create up and the lucky Player Character that scored 60 hp from character creation, your average enemy and player health is around the 30 range.
I have a semi-serious question, how good would a corpo be at pretending to be a fixer in 2020?
>>96708077Cold you elaborate on what you mean? Are you talking roles or social status, or something else?
>>96708077>your fixer isn't a corpowew lad, goodluck
>>96708424I mean a corpo who is dealing weapons on the street as part of a company black operation
>>96708437There is no reason that wouldn't work. Role abilities do not exist in the game world, only in the game rules.
>>96706236What pisses me off about autofire the most is that it uses ten rounds but nobody makes 30 rounders for assault rifles anymore. What, am I supposed to just have a panel full of mags with five rounds left?
Speaking of AutofireMechanically it is 10 hits rolled as 1. Against people on their death saves, does it add a 1 or 10 modifier?
>>96707171>>96707171Yeah, not to be insulting here, but I can tell you haven’t done the math. The problem is that the damage isn’t consistent because it:>Is based on only 2d6 and so significantly more likely to hit very low or high numbers and>Also needs you to be able to not only hit the attack, but exceed the DV value by the amount needed for the full multiplier to even be worth a damn.This means that even at optimal range an AR needs a minimum of 21 to be able to even have a chance at good autofire damage and a SMG needs 20. With the higher DVs on the range table as well you are effectively making all autofire shots on an AR at a -8 to hit for potentially 3d6 more damage and -7 to hit for the same damage increase with SMGs. This means that if you miss the full multiplier by even 1 that you are getting 1d6 more on either weapon for a -7 and -6 respectively. Factor crits in along with the actual hit probabilities in the damage calculation and a SMG is NEVER in any scenario better than just using an AR with normal shots. Then factor in the increased IP costs of autofire being a 2x skill and the increased cost of ammo which also means that you REALLY don’t want to use special ammo with autofire weapons (and some special ammo is really good) and it just isn’t worth it ever for SMGs. With ARs it can be useful, but only in specific scenarios. In chance based games consistency is king. And the only thing consistent about autofire is that it is consistently underwhelming compared to other options that also require less investment. Sure, you get Suppression for free, but it is VERY situationally useful and can just as easily fuck over your other crew members as help them.
>>96710711>Ignoring giganigga enemies the Ref can create up and the lucky Player Character that scored 60 hp from character creation, your average enemy and player health is around the 30 range.No, this is one of the biggest lies in the system that people seem to believe and I can’t for the life of me understand it. If you don’t even touch body or will at char gen and leave them at base 5 you get a 35 hp character. If you go even 1 point higher in either you get 40 hp from char gen. To get 30 hp at char gen you have to deliberately gimp yourself. And while I can see a character having either lower body or will for a concept no one is going to dump both unless you are trying to do it on purpose in which case you’re just pic related. Making enemies follows the same rules, so I usually have to deliberately gimp them to stop them from ending up in the 40+ hp level. Red is NOT a leathal system by any stretch of the imagination and only gets a rep for being so at all because of the stickershock of newbies getting a big critical injury for the first time and having lasting trauma over it. The devs have gone out of their way to make the system substantially less lethal than earlier editions at every turn.Moreover, this doesn’t matter because it doesn’t change what I said >>96710711 because autofire isn’t doing consistent or even very good damage relative to other options. Funny enough, the one scenario where you’d think it would really get to shine (against big armored opponents with heavy mobility penalties) it doesn’t because the dv to hit remains unchanged.
>>96710849Whoops, meant as a reply to >>96707813.
i haven't seen a thread that does not explode into autism whenever autofire gets mentioned
>>96707528Yeah, it should just be removed entirely and when you auto fire you roll off the autofire DV table. It doesn’t fix all of auto fire’s problems, but if you change nothing else other than removing the skill it does a good bit to make it feel less shit. Additionally, it fixes the hilariously stupid logic that your character can pick up a smg or rifle and not be able to hit the broad side of a barn, but turn the fire selector to giggle mode and suddenly they are a crack shot capable of nailing targets at hundreds of meters.That being said, I just changed the function of auto fire entirely for my games, but it’s a change that also is built off of other changes, so it doesn’t work on its own without them.
>>96655295Anarchism, Anti-consumerism and Anti-corporatism seem to be a thing.
Adding my own two cents on autofire, nobody except the severely math autistic people care about it like>you have 35% less chance of rolling two sixes, here's the math tableThey care about it like>two dice? Seems weakIgnoring that you multiply the damage and narrative power it can be used for.People flock to a safety net, like bigger dice. They do not like taking risks. I found people who take risks are the biggest damage dealers though.Meanwhile I see people spouting things such as "assault rifles are king, one gun beats all" while ignoring they can't be concealed and you should be slapped for waving it around, and most fights are melee-smg range.Autofire, like every skill, has pros and cons. I dont get why the need to be so retarded over pelting a guy with ten bullets. I dont see people complaining over getting fucked to death by not putting points on Resist Drugs.
>>96711525>severely math autistic people care about itUnderstanding mean, median, range, and basic probability curves… Ah yes, the autistic concepts of 8th grade algebra. Truly only the most Tylenol destroyed brains could hope to comprehend such sorcery. Are you a zoomer by any chance? I’ve noticed they struggle with basic math.>They care about it like two dice? Seems weak. Ignoring that you multiply the damageIs this some weird projection? Anyone who actually cares enough to do the basic math probably already knows what the fucking rules in the book are. Those of us who can math just know that the multiplier isn’t free and comes with caveats that must be met and it reduces other factors that influence damage numbers.>narrative power it can be used for.I mean I can have a character point a rocket launcher at the ground directly in front of them as a narrative threat to intimidate someone, but that doesn’t mean firing it is smart though.>People flock to a safety net, like bigger dice. They do not like taking risks.Since when is doing more damage more of the time a safety net? That’s like saying that people should be taking risks and using medium pistols and regular SMGs more, they just like the safety nets of the Heavy Pistol and Heavy SMG doing an extra D6.>I found people who take risks are the biggest damage dealers though.If you mean people who know how to utilize tactics and the environment and know when to push enemies or how to use the right weapon for the right enemy, then yeah we can agree on that. If you mean just using auto fire all the time then hell no. You only remember the times that they do big damage because our brain is wired to remember the standout things more than the mundane. Sure that 30 damage auto fire was awesome, but if you did a total of 30 damage in the previous 4 rounds getting there it’s still not gonna measure up to the reliable damage dealer putting down 18 a round every round for 5 rounds.
>>96711525>Meanwhile I see people spouting things such as "assault rifles are king, one gun beats all" while ignoring they can't be concealed and you should be slapped for waving it around.The fact that waving any gun around outside of a combat zone in NC should get NCPD hassling you aside, this is actually a valid point and people do often ignore it. However, unless you have a tech or cyberarm that Heavy SMG won’t be getting concealed either.>Most fights are melee-smg range.You know I bet you thought this was a good point to make, but unlike you I actually know what the range tables say. A SMG auto fire DV at those ranges is going to be 23 and 20 respectively for full damage potential while an AR is hitting on 18 and 17 for those ranges with a normal shot. So again the AR wins out on damage potential after accuracy is factored (not even accounts for crits).>Autofire, like every skill, has pros and cons. I dont get why the need to be so retarded over pelting a guy with ten bullets. I dont see people complaining over getting fucked to death by not putting points on Resist Drugs.Okay, first off, that is a complete non sequitur. No one is going to complain that players get fucked by things if they don’t spec into the skill that is literally there to deal with said things. This has no relationship what-so-ever to players rightfully calling out that a mechanic in the game was badly designed with proof that it is badly designed and offering better made alternatives and the devs not caring to try and fix it. These things don’t even remotely correlate.
>>96711525Best not to use the retard criticism when you can’t even form a coherent statement to use it with. It just makes you look like a retard. And looking at the post, I say that you probably are a midwit trying looking to feel smug and superior. The problem is that you both lack the intellectual brawn to justify it, and that you are trying to do so on 4CHAN of all places. You are a faggot just like everyone else here and don’t forget it. Instead, try to approach the conversation in good faith and something good/useful might come of it. This is how we used to create amazing homebrew on tg after all.
>>96711963Is this bait? People outside of 4chan want to play a game, not min-max. >>96711988>Okay, first off, that is a complete non sequiturAnon, even i can tell that is a joke about Ripper in Forlorn Hope. He has an AOE attack that works off the Drugs stat. Calm your tits.
i think autofire is fun
>>96711963>>96711988I honestly wasn't expecting a serious reply.>first two pointsI was talking about the logic that normal people would want to simply play their characters and have fun, not do calculating numbers in their heads outside of CC, hit, or damage.>third pointThere was an anon a couple threads back where an enemy surrendered before his turn during a fight. He didn't die from Autofire but it was enough to put him in mortally wounded. I also had a few gonks that had second thoughts on starting a fights from having guns pointed at him, two people threatening to "waste his ass" if he moves.>fourthSee point one>fifthYeah. Tactics and all that.>seventhThat's on me for getting the ranges wrong, my mistake.>eighthLike the other anon said, that's on me having a laugh at all this and poking fun at Ripper. I'm not on my main computer that has the pdf but I think it can't be evaded like a melee roll, you have to succeed a Resist Drugs roll.>>96711995I'm not sure if you're the same anon from text limit, but I mostly posted it on a half joking, half serious manner. I'm also here to have a serious talk on autofire if we want to.
>>96712066>Is this bait? People outside of 4chan want to play a game, not min-max.No shit, people want to play a game. And they want to have fun playing a game. First off, you don’t get to gatekeep how people have fun. If someone wants to min-max, then I say great. If someone wants to build characters that will die quickly and get cycled through, also great. To each their own. But don’t pretend that min-maxing isn’t a valid form of fun because it is for some. Players do want to succeed in their endeavors and will gravitate towards the things they notice make them do so more often. This isn’t a flaw, it’s just character/game progression. I notice that min-maxers is almost always used as a defense when people talk about poor balancing/design decisions in a game, but when RED is trying very hard to be a balanced experience (sometimes to its detriment as a ton of flavor and character customization has been sacrificed for it) that the issues that are there only become more egregious for it.Second, I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I am making here. Have I said anywhere that I like that state things are in? They I like the AR being the fucking meta weapon on account of weapon balance in general being subpar? Because I don’t, I really don’t. I hate seeing >>96701463 this occur so much. I want autofire to be as cool as the idea of it sounds. I want to be >>96712092 this guy. I hate that players will come up with a cool pistol using concept and eventually feel like they need to spec into shoulder arms for an AR because the second you throw anything other than the laughable statblocks in the base game at players the performance of almost every other ranged weapon type in the game drops off a cliff (shotguns notwithstanding).
>>96712066I hate that 80% of the issues people complain about in RED actually stem from the devs ineptitude for understanding either math, genre convention, or basic player behaviors. And this just makes me sad because I like RED. I think the system has a strong base with plenty of room for customizability. I think that almost every problem the system has can be pretty easily solved with either simple number tweaks or slightly more complicated system interaction tweaks (or just adding more content in general). I know that having done all of those things I’ve made drastic improvements to how much my own players enjoy the experience. But that’s my table, and players shouldn’t have to just gobble down shit given to them and accept it just because it’s official. That just leads to the slow motion trainwreck of a game line where people lose interest in favor of other systems or other editions of the same game.I’ve been around long enough to remember the 4E days of D&D and Red’s current trajectory feels in many ways too similar for my liking. The old guard have mostly gone back to 2020 and the people brought in by 2077/edgerunners (who, let’s be frank here, are the only reason this current line has found success) have a set of expectations for play that RED doesn’t do a particularly good job at meeting. CEMK was a step in the right direction for that at least.
>>96689567Not only the setting sucks. Just read the dozens of posts of people complaining about the system. 30 years later you'd think they at least would get that part right, but no, it's even worse and less realistic.
I got an idea for a smaller street scale campaign; need some help with story beats and wondering if I should use it for RED or Combat Zone.>PCs try to go to a Tiger Claw run brothel>they get turned away cuz one of the PCs is a Valentino affiliated rapper who dissed them on a track>1st major fight>after the fight outside the brothel turns out the PCs killed the little brother of a high ranking Tiger ClawThat's all I got so far.
So when was edgerunners 2 supposed to be happening?
>>96712222I would actually love to talk about auto fire. I'd love to see more constructive ideas for common issues that crop up with discussing RED in general. I’d rather work on solutions to problems than endlessly grip and, while I have my own solutions crafted for many issues, I’d love to hear what others have done as well. It’s easy to have blind spots when it comes to your own work and people usually have good insight to offer.
Are Gorilla arms trash or goat'ed? They count as a excellent quality melee weapon, so that's a free +1, you can't be disarmed of them, they're completely concealable. Sure, that's comparable to the pop-up melee weapon, but you don't have to buy the weapon separately.Also, it may have more Humanity loss than the pop-up melee weapon. But for it's utility, it's totally worth it? It's a great alternative to a Linear frame, unlike a linear frame you don't have to install any interface plugs or muscle and bone lace, just have a cyber-arm and now you've gained 11 BOD when it comes heavy weapons. The only benefit having a Linear frame has over the Gorilla arms is the Borg HP increase, (and I suppose martial arts damage) but if you don't want to borg out it's a fine alternative.
>Group decides to take their tech to get his system flushed after he started tripping on some grade A Tyger claw glitter right before a throw down>Tech had not mentioned he was on immunoblockers cause he chipped too much hardware too quickly>He is now no longer high on glitter.>But the immunoblockers got flushed out with it>cue the tech sitting up like Micheal Myers and nearly strangling the netrunner to death cause they realized their pal was on the edge of cyberpsychosis and tried to disconnect their freshly implanted cyberspine to stop him from stabbing the nurse>before getting a second, weaker does of blockers that stops him from being too murdery>Tech calls his Maelstromer pals for back up to kill some red chromers who klepped the shit the PCs were hired to rob>they'd already exchanged favors with the Tyger Claws to get some numbers on their side against the 25 + Chromers Next session is going to be fun
>>96713058>costs more than a linear frame>no health/death save bonus>doesn't increase unarmed damage for some reasonIt's ok in the context of the EMK with the premade characters, but backport it into Red and it's just a worse linear frame.
>>96707735>Because it has consistently the highest raw damage potentialThat's Martial Arts/Heavy Weapons>ignores armor in a huge burst instead of shredding it like a ROF2 weaponBut comes with a high chance of plinking off armor too>came packaged with another skill to fuck up action economy and crowds.Suppressive Fire is too situational to make it worthwhile.
>>96713058Yeah, they are not good as is. >>96713348 nails most of it, but also for some reason the non-borg option causes greater humanity loss (both temporary and restorable) than the borg one does. Just not a well designed piece of equipment. Change them around a bit and they could be an interesting alternative to a linear frame. Something like all the body benefits for weapons and brawling/martial arts, but with not hp or death save increase in exchange for being more concealable. However, as is they are remarkably mediocre, which sucks because conceptually gorilla arms are goat.
>>96712715I suck at making constructive criticism, sadly. I like to make something fun and cool for my players rather to fix it if I'm making sense.I think Autofire is okay by itself, not the best but not bad either. And when I put down 'better' guns that do it, I change the dice to 3d6 so it drops the lowest die. I did think about making a prototype rifle with 4d6 so user picks the better two dice but I haven't done any testing on it since it was me spitballing ideas.There is the common houserule where you add a die the amount you beat the DV though.I do agree that RED is absolute shit in some spots but there is something fun buried in there. I flat out ignore some things like guns having caseless ammo and how mostly everyone is laughably nice instead of people with ambition.
Has anyone had any success with removing Magic from Shadowrun modules and running them in Red or 2020?
>>96717728Not familiar with Shadowrun modules, but it's not like magic is so intertwined with the universe that it's a fundamental aspect of the encounters, is it? Even if you got magic security systems you just switch them out and there you go. Shouldn't be an issue.
>>96717728Sorta. I'm reading Augmented Reality (2020+vampire the masquerade) and really like the story Homefront. tl;dr kid with abusive dad gets embraced, flatlines dad with a gun (doesn't even use vampire powers smdh), and the players investigate. For my (arguably light on canon) red version the kid meets a friendly Arasaka war criminal who soulkilled the kid and puts him into a child-sized drone, and a while later during an abusive episode the kid kills his father after watching mom die. Also I had other notes like the dad being a retired solo working for David Li (triads) and this was basically a stupidly complex assassination to get an old solo to lower his guard, not suspecting his brat (also the crew knew the Arasaka doctor was a sick asshole so this anime villain-esque plan didn't surprise them). You could probably simplify the situation by just giving the kid a custom child cyber arm with a custom child-sized pop-up gun, but my version was more fun for me because the crew quickly realized there was no happy ending. The whole family (even scumbag dad) was dead and they just had this digital clone of an orphan slowly descending into cyberpsychosis. And then one player wanted to kick the kid out of the drone so his AI buddy could have a real body, and almost everyone else was horrified and it lead to a very constructive debate about the ethics of taking a body from a cyber orphan. That's the kind of shit I live for.So I think it is possible, especially if you can find a suitable replacement for the supernatural elements. But it might stretch canonicity and budgets.
>>96717898Just run a low-power streets campaign. The odds of seeing magic in a particular session are unlikely.
>>96718132>>96717898>>96717969FWIW I'm not planning on a full Shadowrun campaign, just a few short modules retooled.
players want to start a small business that develops over time. maaybe a small corp if they get that far.possible without being mauled by the top dogs in red? all I have down is that whatever mafia they start in would likely ask for protection fees and maybe get business partners from them later.
>>96718601MegaCorp wants to take over business niche McGuffin Tech but needs to do it quietly to avoid competition from rivals, they subcontract to AA-level corp who buys it through the Fixer/CEO of A-level corp, the new CEO of McGuffin Tech through business merger and your players employer. You'll have to do some abstraction of that because truly solo companies rarely survive the first "buyout" offer if declined from a bigger fish.
One of my players is going to play an NCPD officer, and autistic-ly insists on being "The one good cop in night city"? What should I do to him? Talking about RED, btw.
>>96721825He's welcome to try? I think it's best if played straight. Give him the same morally grey problems. Let the player navigate those situations and see how "good" they can be. >Gangoon violence results in an innocent bystander getting killed. A relative of the bystander decides to take revenge on the gang. You catch them in the act before the agrieved citizen can perform the coup de grâce.> Let them serve out the street justice?>stop them from killing the gangoon?> The gangoon in question is an informant that regularly supplies valuable detes for biz, so losing them would be a costly loss.or>Corpo exec accidentally kills a joytoy by overdosing them on stims. You have the evidence of the crime.>The exec shrugs and offers the crew 10000eb for them to "look the other way" and let him go.>"It was an accident, she said she'd be fine. Listen, I can't have this hitting the scream sheets so... let's make a deal."See how well Officer Friendly's moral compass holds up when the crew is hurting for eddies.
>>96721825>One of my players is going to play an NCPD officer, and autistic-ly insists on being "The one good cop in night city"?Daring today, isn't he?>What should I do to him?Push him to see how far he's willing to go to maintain his "good cop" status. Maybe have him and the rest of the crew go undercover to infiltrate a gang, and while there, he's pressured into doing all kinds of fucked up shit. Drugs, torture, murder and the like. Will he stick to his morals and risk blowing his cover, or will he give in to the pressure and become the very thing he swore an oath to stop?You can also set him up for a fall. Corrupt elements on the force want to do their dirty deeds without being exposed for it, and they see him as the perfect mark. If he's in a committed relationship, they find "evidence" of an affair. If he's straight-edged, totally-not-doctored pictures of him snorting synthcoke off a joytoy's ass in a strip club hit the Net. If he's got a high enough reputation as a "good guy cop", this can be a serious blow.
>>96718601I've tackled player businesses in two ways. The first was giving them money (that they can't spend on themselves) and trying to figure out the cost of services via the core rulebook and that absolutely sucked. So the second method I cooked up was that a business progresses like an edgerunner in a role (1-4 is beginner, 4-7 is middle, 8+ is advanced) and the business owner could 'buy' advantages based off the kind of business they wanted. Stuff like getting a location, getting reputation (like Gus in Breaking Bad), getting a bodyguard (sort of like an Exec but would only go on jobs if we were short players, and the Exec bodyguard is pretty good like a hardened lieutenant so this one was more of a normal mook), and eventually getting their own edgerunners on payroll to either indirectly support their runs ('here are the passwords you wanted, boss') or just harassing rivals for fun (honestly a lot of this just ended up with the players harassing random NPCs which was pretty funny).
I can't remember, are Clouds-style Dollhouses a thing in the Time of the Red?
>>96724149Do you want them to be?
>>96724149There are prototypes.
new to Cyberpunk as a game system. how would I be able to make Raiden in either Red or 2020? This may or may not be a "stat him" question but I genuinly wanna know what the upper limits of borging out is in this game system/world
>>96727657In red you would want cyberware like an implanted linear frame (more HP and punching damage, and one specialty frame from Black Chrome gives you +2 stealth which is huge), skate feet and jump booster (not exactly required but would give great mobility), subdermal armor (you can wear an armor jacket for now, this is expensive but you can also upgrade it later with healing nanomachines) and finally you'd want to get a Mono-Katana (can ignore a good deal of npc armor once there injured a bit, it's expensive top level loot). You'd want to be a solo (great bonuses to initiative, damage or attack rolls). Obviously there are more, but I feel like these are the big ones. There are also full-body conversion characters that are brains in robutt bodies (think GitS) but they're probably way too expensive for now. But they are fun and have more cyborg exclusive (and are actually less insane than regular people chipping in to insane levels).And if you really want to be Raiden you can get a poser chip which helps you act like he would.This all probably sounds like rambling so I can explain anything further if you'd like.
>>96727907as I said whats the "upper limit" of Borg fuckery in Cyberpunk? I saw a "lore accureate" video of V fighting Adam Smasher and having the main guy dude jump on a balcony with bullet time, kill like four guys with only one being able to fire a shot off, and then jumping off before a missle barrage just deletes the whole area is Busted. do the RPGs replicate the damn near dragonball fight I saw in that video?
>>96728076I think Shaitan was as Borged Up as Adam was, but was able to remain pretty stable. Adam was just always kind of a nutcase.
>>96727657You can be a brain in a jar plugged into a 10ft tall super demon power armor. The sky is the limit as long as you get enougfh therapy. But for him I'd say a sandevistan plus boostmaster and monoblade to get all those sword swings in
>>967276572020 Raiden you would want probably a full-borg-conversion with boosted up REF and MA and I guess GM permission whether you can still keep your face with the required external plating.Also pain inhibitors... obviously.Weapon wise, Mono-Two katana.
>>96728347any specific bodys? I've found some fan sites that just add so much value and flavor of the choices that my head just spins with the options given. and im not saying that as a bad thing, I want more full body borgs. but what im getting at is there one thats the closest, or anyway I can scratch build one.
>>96728423The specific bodies don't matter that much because you can fine tune their attributes with enough money anyways. But I'd say probably Alpha, Eclipse, or Enforcer conversion.
>>96728076>>96727907 again, regretfully RED tries to avoid OTK's (I think it's out of fear of players being one-shot) but it's possible to get serious damage.If you want to be a swordsman, check out the Rostović Kleaver. It's a sword so big that it needs 2 hands no matter what, deals 5d6 damage (can deal 20 damage on average), has 20% crit chance (+5 bonus damage and a funny crit), and sets the foe on fire (take damage every turn or waste their whole turn doing stop drop roll). With this you can definitely cripple any enemy you hit, and with a lucky coin flip you might just obliterate them.Explosives are actually insanely good in RED and it's funny because the gear is 'used up' so the crew can't salvage it.RED doesn't have multiple-kill bullet time but it has bullet time dodge which allows you to set your own 'to-hit' difficulty value. Normally guns have set difficulty values to hit a target at a certain range (handguns and shotguns are great for close range, assault rifles for medium, etc) but with a small investment in Evasion and Reflex 8 you can force all enemies to roll against a probably high difficulty value (unless you rolled a 1 lol). RED does have tech-upgrades, and with the most recent books it shows the sky really is the limit. Maybe you invent a sword that can hit all enemies within reach by using a 'charge' that costs as much as a grenade, or use athletics in combat to give yourself an attack bonus as you jump around, it's limited by your ref's creativitySo you won't get Goku vs Cell or even David from the anime vs goons, but you can do some insane stuff.
>>96682849>DARE you ENTER my MAGICAL REALM?
I feel like all games I've checked for Cyberpunk all suck.
>>96728076The short answer to your question is 'No'.
>>96729164How so?
Cyberpunk Red era Pacifica is what, solidly middle class? I know there's a refugee population but from what I can tell there's still nice restaurants and the like.
Some kibble.
>>96736281Fuck you. But I'll take one of those onions-and-crustacean-protein bars, jerky flavour if they got it otherwise surprise me.
A player has armored clothing (shirt and pants) at SP 18. He's also purchased armored gloves and shoes at SP 4. Do these values stack? 2020, if that makes a difference.
>>96721825Your first assignment is to watch the first three seasons of Miami Vice. The original "modern" police procedural has all the 80s flash that inspired Cyberpunk in the first place, and plenty of sympathetic villains/antiheroes. Special attention should be payed to S2E3 where an ex-cop who's more than half-crazy helps solve a drug runner case, or S1E2 where Al Bundy plays a corrupt FBI agent. Hell, any given episode that focuses on the supporting cast (Christina, Major Castillo, Phil fuckin Collins) can also provide genuine moral dilemmas for "straight" characters to fall into.
>>96703341Solarpunk is a meme, it's boring and uninteresting to the core. Transhumanism and AI were always sort of a part of the cyberpunk genre so, I guess it could lean more into that since it's a scary thing on the horizon.
Is Buddhism the religion of the Cyberpunk future?ᛝ The 4 Cyberpunk Truths ᛝ1. Suffering is inseparable from existence.10. Craving is the root cause of suffering.11. Suffering can be ended by ending craving.100. There is a path to ending craving and suffering.⧖ drive.google.com/file/d/1YxZS4v8-jlj-2CfpfDMPyk_6J0wqQBe_/view⧗ buddhanet.net/audio-lectures/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV_3Dpw-BRYIs this song "Cyberpunk"?
>>96703341It's going to get more hellish probably. Strap in choomba!
>>96739393Yes, there's a chart on armour stacking in 2020 errata you can get from R.Tal website.But if the armours are different by 14 SP, the benefit is small.
>>96742633What about subdermal armor with armored clothing?
is it possible to stat a weaker version of killy's gun or i shouldn't bother?
>>96742505On the contrary, Cyberpunk is the age of Decline of the Dharma
Is there a baldurs gate for 2020?
>>96749354Not really, the closest is the GURPs-adjacent games like Fallout 1 and 2, or the relatively more recent Underrail. The Cyberpunk 2077 game is good, and is really good for getting the feel for how Cyberpunk should FEEL, but it is ultimately a weird mix of Witcher 3 and Skyrim, and has only superficial similarities in terms of gameplay. That said the Shadowrun CPRGs are good, and if they weren't Shadowrun games they would definitely be lauded as Baldurpunk. Much like the street samurai, we must eat when we can, because no one knows when our next meal is.
Any advice for getting/finding a game for Cyberpunk RED? And, assuming I get lucky enough to find something, any advice for a new player on how not to completely fuck up?
>>96748131Kill your darlings.
Dang it, I gotta stop trying to do too many things with my Fixer. Put a bunch of IP into autofire and now I'm taking ranks in Netrunner, aaa
>>96748131Not really. Different power scale.
>>96748131y so many belts??
>>96753220This.>>96753255Why is that an issue? If you have enough to even consider both then you clearly have IP to waste.>>96753448Japanese have little bodyfat and no curves, so they need a lot of belts to keep their pants up. That's science. There's historical precedence.
>>96662088Cyberpunk was obviously more inspired by Streets of Fire and Bubblegum Crisis than anything else. Maybe Hardwired on the grand level, but on the street/player level it's that movie and the OVAs.
>>96689567>>96712525I think it's an awesome departure from the token cyberpunk setting. "Any further and that just might be it for it all". Everyone's teetering on the razor edge. Fits with the context of the cyberpunk genre: it was meant as a warning to how shitty things can eventually get once down a certain path. It also has a distinct aesthetic of the oily red rain and crimson skies occasionally, more low-life DIY and simplistic industrial shit, as well as urban ruins with tribal communities on local communication. That enables certain types of characters/players with certain skill to thrive that would otherwise be trumped or obsolete in the more stable and global future. Usual roles are more pronounced: techs that can repair stuff are more important than ever, fixers sourcing shit are the lifeblood of the city, nomads are extremely significant. You know who is doing what and it all has a place in the ecosystem.It also enables more unique, wild and ambitious games than a token cyberpunk setting would. For example, running a game where a group wants to really stick it to the corps and "give Saburo a slap on the back of his bald head" as Pondsmith proposes, or cause restructuring change is a big stretch in 2077 or 2020 because corps own all and have all the power in the world. But right after the 4th war when they're reeling, in shambles and trying to keep afloat? Perfect time to really strike and even the most drastic ambitions like making a whole corp go down are plausible.Many other fronts open up: making real change in the city, becoming big players during turmoil since spots are open and it's dog-eat-dog, helping your fellow people to live better, founding your own org, fucking everyone over, pilgrimage to reconnect with other cities and pick up the pieces. Expeditions into the hot zone with the big dicks camped out near it for who knows what one might find sort of endgame stuff.It has despair, yet it has much hope. It's up to players to tip the scale.
Considering the whole reflex dodging ranged attacks debate and how it warps the game around reflex, I was wondering if anyone else has gone the opposite route from removing it and just let everyone dodge bullets all the time regardless of reflex value using RED+EVA rolls. I converted the ranged DVs table to simple penalties to hit and it seems to work really well. Players seem to prefer it and it does make enemies in general less pushover when using hardened statblocks. The only caveat I’ve noticed is that things were taking too long to die, but the easy change that fixed that seems to be ablating armor on a successful hit regardless of whether the damage penetrates or not. Got things about right again. It’s also nice to see players actually trying to make more different character builds rather than everyone and everything that isn’t a mook in NC mysteriously having peak human reflexes all the time.
>>96753679>Japanese have little bodyfat and no curves, so they need a lot of belts to keep their pants up. That's science. There's historical precedence.you are truly learned anonthank you for sharing this wisdome
>>96753448The real answer is, his clothes (and on some occasions, his limbs) are all held together with molecular tape because he's been walking for 3000 years.
>>96756360that sounds really stiff and also like it would weigh a lot
>>96728291in what edition?far as i know pretty much every edition doesnt let you go very far at all.
>>96748131Just keep it at full power and have a gun in the game that can actually shoot through the entirety of Night City, buildings and all.
>>96755457The reason people dislike Red's setting boils down to the fact they want higher power scaling more in line with the vidya and less scrounging around for mediocre gear. Red's bakes alot of frustrating QOL problems into it's mechanics to justify its setting. Nobody wants the IP tax of having to have a fixer/tech/nomad in their party just to have normal, functional crew. The game is so much better if you hand wave a lot of the scarcity stuff by introducing NPC fixers or just straight up letting players buy whatever they want.At the end of the day a bad setting can be ignored, but bad mechanics are a much bigger problem.
>>96739393No because gloves and shoes protect different body parts
>>96755714I just removed reflex dodging while I played Red, it worked fine. Reflex dodging is silly anyway.>>96755944Thank you, I got my degree from a university I founded myself.
>>96757593There aren't hit locations for feet or hands - just legs or arms. I hear there are advanced hit tables that cover these smaller portions, but here's the chart from page 102 of the 2.01 rulebook.
You lot have any recommendations for a paint scheme for an acpa? Our group may or may not be getting (stealing) one soon and we'll need to liberate it of it's bland corpo colors
>>96760261I have several good ideas but out of respect for your punk soul I refuse to tell you. Surely the paint job, as a statement against the corpos, must be your own creative endeavour. Otherwise they are right to treat you like cattle, you simply consume the products of others either way. Why don't you tell us what it could look like?
>>96748131Outside of making your own settings in the system; If your game takes place in the badlands, just go wild. Out of sight, out of mind.
>>96760271 I suppose you're right. My brain has just been so fried from work as of late I haven't been able to come up with anything since out last game
>>96757626>I just removed reflex dodging while I played Red, it worked fine. Reflex dodging is silly anyway.Out of curiosity, why? I mean if you are talking about dodging bullets matrix style, then yeah I’d agree with you, but what about modeling it as juking and using erratic movement to throw off an opponents aim before they can pull the trigger. I mean it’s not the most realistic either, but it’s also the cornerstone of pretty much all action-based entertainment since the 80s. And if Cyberpunk is a game built on style over substance wouldn’t this just make it better model what the game claims to want. I mean nothing in cyberpunk as a system is particularly realistic, so why is this the hill to die on?
>>96763735there is a cyberware that allows people to bullet dodge without the ref 8 requirement. Reflex Processor in Black Chrome. He might just removed the reflex dodging but not the ware.
>>96763847Yeah, I know about that one. The question still stands though. Why is this the hill people want to die on? From a gameplay health perspective, isn’t it easier to use a unified system for both melee and ranged attacks rather that the 3 versions we currently have.1. Melee attacks use DEX+EVA2. Ranged attacks use a DV table that takes into account weapon range bands3. Unless you have 8 REF, then you use DEX+EVA (not even REF+EVA which would make more sense). Also, now weapon range doesn’t matter for some reason, so it’s easier to hit someone 800 meters away if they are evading than if they aren’t. Yep, good design there.Reflex Coprocessor feels to me like the Devs realized after release that they did a stupid and tried to correct it with cyberware rather than fix the actual problem. Because they never want to seem to correct problems in the core book. Just release new content that allows players to bypass the issue with items. There are multiple items in DLC that seem to exist solely to do this.
>>96763950You don’t roll evasion for bullets because a human being cannot evade bullets. There is a reason why the first thing you do in a firefight is find cover. Jerking and running around a lot is not going to help you very much. When you run from cover while someone is blasting at you, you are at the mercy of how good of a shot they are, not how well you can avoid their shot.I would say ideally bullet dodging should be something only capable of character boosted beyond peak REF stat but the game offers no way of doing that. For whatever reason they just decided that someone with peak human reflexes can dodge bullets.
>>96764390If you want to bring realism into it, then that is a very steep rabbit hole to go down my friend. Or do you believe that grenades and rockets should be instantly fatal to those they directly hit? Or perhaps that character's should constantly have to roll resist torture and drugs every time they fire their gun without ear protection on? Or you know, just 90% of the physics defying shit that cyberware does. Of course not, because that just wouldn't be fun and this is a game. So my question stands. Why is it that people will readily accept all the other unrealistic gamey aspects of the system, but the second you want to use evasion for bullets as well the autistic screeching begins?
>>96758574I never said there are, but gloves and boots don't provide armor to places they don't cover
>>96762959Find 20 minutes to lean back and listen to thematically appropriate music, and let your creative spirit refresh.>>96763735I always think of the rooftop scene in Die Hard when I think of player v npc guncombat. John might be arching his back and running to avoid fire, but he is not dodging, he finds an escape in his environment (the slide) and escapes them that way. This is resolved in gameplay through movement actions and LOS. 2020 already solves the issue of movement translating to defence through making shots necessitate a higher DV, and we can use that when it is relevant. >>96763847 correctly assumes I did not ban the RCP, no one ended up getting it. It's not really a hill to die on, I just told my table I don't like opposed rolls for gun combat and if they were going to get the RCP they owe me to be able to answer me what their defence roll is within a second of me asking them. They respected that and it never came up. I find selectively enforced opposed rolls are disruptive to me resolving NPC actions, they trip people up myself included, and in the end my every understanding of firearms combat does not include "dodging" unless you are Matrix-dodging. The bullet either hit or it didn't. If the shooter missed that is entirely in their court. If people want to have an internet fight over that then be my guest, but no one I played with took an issue with it so that's where the matter ends with me.
>>96764483You are arguing in bad faith at this point.The reason you don’t have everyone roll dodge for bullets is obvious. It incentivizes players to actually use cover like an actual firefight instead of standing out in the open and relying on their dodge skill to protect them. The hit target values exist to give specific guns tactical advantages in different scenarios and ranges, something that is lost when you use evasion to determine DVs, as you seem aware. From my personal experience, I can say that generalized bullet dodging overall does not add much fun to a game while coming at the cost of slowing down combat. Likewise RED, a system with only one evasion skill, is poorly suited for it.
>>96764483My guess is because of how a non-decision it is and because it adds another roll for an attack to resolve.
>>96764483>Why is it that people will readily accept all the other unrealistic gamey aspects of the system, but the second you want to use evasion for bullets as well the autistic screeching begins?It upsets antagonistic GMs who think the goal of the game is to see how quickly they can kill the entire party.
>>96646182Tips for a first time cyberpunk 2020/Red Dm?
>>96689438>RED fucking sucks.Howso?
>>96769563Get gritty, make something explode in a cool way once in a while, describe the stench of trash and things being lit by neon semi-frequently, don't play NPCs as too level-headed or sensible, try to cheer character deaths.>>96769787Less gooderer. Also more modern HP bloat rock-em-sock-em-robots with hyperspecific niche of economically downturned mad max universe with quirky wholesome characters and also neonazi lynchings, which is an incredibly difficult tone to maintain or even explain.
>>96769852>which is an incredibly difficult tone to maintain or even explain.I usually just use the mechanics and create my own lore.
>>96766493gonna steal this post for the future>>96768618made a rule that if you don't roll evasion in real life 10s, the attack automatically hits no matter what the npc rolledthis made bullet dodging tolerable
>>96774777Personally just shoot any player with a gun and if they dodge they get to avoid the damage in the game. It's the cyberpunk way.
Okay so bullet dodging is genuine flaw in the game's design. It slows down combat, invalidates range DVs, cover and imposes an 8 Ref tax on the player when character building.How do we fix it short on removing it completely? I think an easy solution is tying bullet dodging to a limited resource, say Luck? What if Bullet Dodging require you to be under the influence of Speedware like Sandivistan and you limited how many times you could dodge in a turn?
>>96775748You remove it completely.
I made this Lawman for a Red game I'm gonna be in soon. Pretty happy with how it turned out so I thought I'd share. He got the mirror shades and the wild and all over hair.
>>96775905It's so refreshing to see art of someone's Cyberpunk character who doesn't look like the lovechild of a circus clown and a prostitute, a squishy femboy or a straight up furry.
>>96775975lol thanks. You might then also appreciate that I kitted him out only with cybernetics that are to aid in investigation. Micro-cam, internal Agent, enhanced hearing. No out-the-box maximum combat power stuff.
>>96775905man needs some well-deserved sleep to curb his bed hair. hope he lives long
>>96775905>mirroed shades.My guy. Sometimes you want to be a big grizzly dude. I am cooking up a backup character that has a pretty stereotypical big booba model body type though.
>>96766493No I’m not, I asked a very straight forward question and only this >>96765884 chad answered it and his answer is “It’s personal preference,” which I can totally get behind. Sure he still says some straight forward wrong things which I’ll get to in a moment, but I can at least understand and respect it. Realism isn’t an argument because nothing in RED is realistic, so trying to apply it only selectively when the first rule of the game is style over substance reeks of bad faith argument.>The reason you don’t have everyone roll dodge for bullets is obvious. It incentivizes players to actually use cover like an actual firefight instead of standing out in the open and relying on their dodge skill to protect them.This just doesn’t happen. Even with dodging, if you are out in the open getting shot at a lot you have to dodge a lot and probability isn’t on your side. Players don’t do this more than once because they learn their lesson about being an obvious target after the first time. And if by some miracle they manage to still make it out without getting punished for it, FUCKING AWESOME. That is fucking style. Why would I ever not want that to happen? Let them have a moment in the sun and a story the whole table will remember and get cocky over it, then later when they try to repeat it and the odds don’t work out I can just say: them’s the brakes and there are no hard feelings over it. It feels like you are basically just the person that >>96768618 is describing. I want my players to be awesome, to feel awesome, and when they die, to do so in a way that feels okay for everyone involved. Because that’s the creed of cyberpunk: style over substance.
>>96766493>>96776349>From my personal experience, I can say that generalized bullet dodging overall does not add much fun to a game while coming at the cost of slowing down combat.You know between this and the whole “RED is lethal” nonsense I’m starting to think that people just parrot things they have heard without actually ever considering them themselves. The range table is neither fast nor intuitive in any way shape or form. No one has that shit memorized and it must be consulted anew every time players or enemies move unless you are all in a small room all the time. First, you have to count the squares (and hope to god that they aren’t positioned diagonally near the edge of a range band because then it’s a crapshoot), then you have to consult the table, then compare the DV to the attacker’s roll. Rolling for evasion is done the EXACT same way for ranged attacks as it is for melee/brawl/martial arts ones. And weirdly, no one ever complains about the clunkiness of doing that. How strange. It can be done quite fast. Roll target’s evasion, roll attack(s) against a DV set by the opponent’s evasion. And it never changes. You know what, let’s actually practice a bit shall we. Pull up the range table first because I want to make this fair as possible. Now look at my attached image. Roll an attack from the red attacker against the green target. How long did that take to calculate the hit? How about the blue? Orange? Purple? And how are you calculating diagonals? Extra distance or no? On a range band edge that matters. Now do the same thing with evasion. Oh look, same amount of time everytime. I did it in under 5 seconds every time. Can you say the same? Be honest here. Anyone who thinks that the table is faster is either willfully ignorant, or just plain retarded.>Likewise RED, a system with only one evasion skill, is poorly suited for it.Ranged evasion is rolled as REF+Evasion rather than DEX+Evasion. Fixed. Damn, that was really hard.
>>96766493>The hit target values exist to give specific guns tactical advantages in different scenarios and ranges, something that is lost when you use evasion to determine DVs.This is the one point you make that actually has some grounding to it. Unfortunately, it’s just not for the reasons you think. You see, the devs are kinda bad at designing weapons. They tied the differentiation of weapon types to damage dice. Unfortunately, this screwed any attempt they might have made to create a meaningful difference between them. What’s the difference between using a baseball bat and a machete? Fucking nothing. Melee is so boring to use in this game as a result because all melee weapons of a size type are the same. This problem is just as bad with guns… unless you take the ranged DV table into account. Don’t believe me? Tell me, if I shoot you with a rof 1 weapon that does 5d6 damage can you tell me which one I shot you with without knowing what their ranged DV was to hit. FUCKING NOPE. AR, shotgun, sniper rifle: all the goddamn same. But hey, at least the AR gets autofire and suppression. And hey, shotgun gets… shotgun shells, you know that thing every player tries once and drops right afterwards when they realize they are absolute shit. This is why the AR reigns supreme in this game (except for the hurricane Assault Shotgun, but that gun blows everything out of the water and isn’t a good basis for comparison). The devs sucked so hard at designing weapon types that the ranged DV table became their bandaid to try and create reasons to use different guns. Does anyone ever use SRs in your games other than for an assasination. No, no one does because the the ranged DV table makes that gun fucking terrible unless you go into distances that will never fit well on a reasonably sized battle map. It’s not even realistic to how guns work in real life either, so I guess we can toss realism right out the window for guns again.
>>96776062I was trying to go for a more handsome Edward Cullen type thing but unfortunately as it was my first time painting hair it turned out more Bob Dylan. Is what it is.
>>96775748I had the idea of 'if your REF is 8 and Evasion at least 4, DV's to hit you with guns are -2 (difficult task) instead of dodging (won't work if you normally couldn't dodge so unaware, shields, cover, etc)' so range bands are still useful but you get an edge. Players didn't like (I don't know, did D&D change so that all attack rolls get opposed by a defense roll now or something?) so I just use it for NPCs (like coke'd up bozos, Arasaka ninja, etc). It may not be perfect but it's simple and elegant. Actually the way I do run dodging is that it's now rolled after the attack roll, so if the attack roll sucked we don't waste time rolling another dice pointlessly at the same time. But now the roll has to beat the attacker's roll (which was at least decent to beat the original DV score) and the crew hasn't realized this puts them at a -1 disadvantage (they can't just tie, they have to beat the enemy's roll). Nobody has figured this out yet. I've also tried to subtly use penalties like grimy floors to penalize too. I'm playing around with the idea of using the dirty combat method from solo play for more boring fights, or maybe even hold-out style fights where the crew has to hold an area for several minutes as a hacker hacks open a door or they wait for AV exfiltration. I think that mode disallows dodging entirely.I don't remember if I posted this video yet, I still have to see the OVA
>>96776361>The range table is neither fast nor intuitive in any way shape or form. No one has that shit memorized and it must be consulted anew every time players or enemies move unless you are all in a small room all the time. Can just keep the sheet next to you, easy print. While we played Red the Solo memorised the table, the others used the sheet.
Feel free to dismiss me, since I'm talking about online play, but in Roll20 and Foundry, the range bands are included in the button, so checking them is easy and faster than waiting till the player rolls Evasion.
>>96777285And the exceptional red companion app has them all too. Plus let's be honest. 60% of encounters happen within the first 2 range bands (0m-6m, 7m-12m) and 30% may include 13m-25m. This is actually a quote from the original Friday Night Firefight based on FBI stats. Because most battlemaps aren't going to be more than 25x25 the further bands aren't really needed. So just remember that shotguns and pistols are 13/15/20, smg's are 15/13/15, and assault rifles are 17/16/15.
>>96777211Okay, are you trying to make a point here? Having the sheet in front of you does not mean that it somehow measures the squares between you and and enemy. You have to do this manually. And you need to remeasure it every single time either you or your opponent move relative to one another. Having the table in front of you saves no time what-so-ever. It is literally the base requirement for most people. And coincidentally, it takes longer than rolling an evasion value.>>96777285Oh yeah, online play can auto-calculate this I imagine, but uhhhhh two things. 1. Saying it's not that bad because I have a literal program to do it for me isn't really helping the case of something being unintuitive. 2. If it's just a table to consult ala having a printed piece of paper and not auto-calculating the distance for you when the attack button is rolled, then see the point I just made above.>>96777571I do use the Red app extensively, which makes this discussion even funnier because guess what? There is a literal evasion button that does all of the work of rolling evasion for you, so it only takes 1 second to find it. Not really a point in the range tables favor considering the app only does the exact same thing as having a printed copy of the table right in front of you. Which as I pointed out above isn't a time saver, it is the default. Hence why I said in my example to have it pulled up before you started because I wanted to give anyone doing it the maximum chance possible for speed.>Plus let's be honest... So just remember that shotguns and pistols are 13/15/20, smg's are 15/13/15, and assault rifles are 17/16/15.Okay, I have to be the gun guy here for a moment since I shoot a lot of them. There is no functional difference between shooting an AR, SMG, shotgun, or SR at those ranges. The different values exist solely as a game abstraction to paper over the design issues I pointed out >>96776390 here.
>>96777571Glad I spec'd into handguns. Unless I'm missing out on something, being a new player, it seems like Rifles kinda suck for most encounters inside of a single room. I recently got my handgun up to level 6, which gives me +13 in the handgun skill. This is a guaranteed hit at 6 meters or less, unless I roll a 1, and I only need a 3 or higher for an additional 6 meters, which is a nice sweetspot combat-wise.For a rifle, I gotta be I'm at 26~50 meters away with that same point investment to get that guaranteed hit. The 5d6 damage is nice so if you do hit, you hit hard, but it feels like a real gamble to me. Things can go very badly for you quickly in 1 to 2 turns of unfavorable combat.A shotgun would be nice. How many points can you put into a skill before it caps out?
>>96776361I literally just eyeball the DV
>>96778471Did you also eyeball the number of squares between you and the target and get it correct too? Even for the not straight on ones? I bet you didn't. The time sink of the table has nothing to do with the table, it is the counting of squares to know the range band you are in. And as far as I know there is no way to speed that process up.
How much of the vidya 2077/anime Edgerunner are canon/will incorporated into future fluff?
>>96778329Why are you so needlessly hostile? Every other day you come in here and spoil an otherwise good general by being a faggot. There's a good discussion going on and you're trying to torpedo it.In the spirit of continuing that discussion: I had no issue the way you describe it at my table. If we know a square is 2m then moving 5 tiles away means we moved 10m away, no measurement required.>>96778471Yup. DV being accurate down to the metre is silly anyway, and sometimes a hallway is 4m too long but clearly an easier shot than what's past the door. Going by X or Y coordinates, ignoring Z, is perfectly adequate in the vast majority of cases. Going by common sense using the DV table as a guideline is otherwise reasonable. We generally use hexgrids and that gets more complicated, and even then it's as simple as imagining how many people lengthwise are between you and the target. It's one of the few places where measuring things in feet and inches is intuitive and practical.>My gun is accurate up to 12m>That guy is like my height five times away>I'm just short of 190cm>So he's at most 10m awayThe ruler is a "have but not need it" kinda thing.
>>96778337The handgun skill is pretty great since you get pistols, single-fire smgs and the Militech Crusher (it has vh handgun damage but uses shells which are like small grenades for 1/10 the price). The downside is you don't get access to the 5d6 damage weapons (I love my 20% crit chance and so did the core rulebook where every gonk had a poor quality shotgun/assault rifle) but if your long rifle gets checked at the door what's the point? Shoulder arms are great but for lawless situations (aka the combat zone).I do feel like most cyberpunk encounters will be at insanely close range (back alley, shooting between offices, make-up room dispute, etc). Maybe someday we'll get carbines which are assault rifles with smg ranges. Maybe Rusted Chrome in 2 yearsAssault rifles are nice because suppressive fire can potentially waste the turns of multiple enemies. Sure you can kill one enemy in a turn, but what about making 3+ enemies useless for just a single action? Normally NPCs have uniform skill bonuses (like +10 to everything) but I penalize skills like concentration or resist drugs/torture unless the NPC's are pros because most people wouldn't think to guard themselves from these attacks. Another assault rifle benefit is they have the damage of a shotgun with a much bigger magazine. And if you're a player shooting NPCs, DV17 isn't THAT bad. Especially when most players are going to min/max and get +14 at chargen, so you have a 70% of hitting at your worst times. If you think about it 5d6 damage is authoritative damage. The gang that owns the area, the security watching an event, the bodyguards for a VIP, etc. It's meant for the bad guys so if they actually hit it will hurt. Players make due with the RoF1 4d6 or RoF2 3d6.
>>96779048>Maybe someday we'll get carbines which are assault rifles with smg rangesYou could say we have carbines at toggle's home. Sometimes I just want to redo all weapon DVs from ground up, but I'm too lazy for that.
How are children treated in your games, if any? Innocence, testing morality, out of sight out of mind, or an normal sight both living and dead ?
>>96782933The only time I used a Yo Ganger they got thrown off a building.
>>96779048The issue with Handguns is they give you alot of options but most of them are far too situational and worse than alternatives most of the time.Shells are just worse grenades that are only useful when fighting a bunch of low SP enemies in a small map with lots of tight chokepoints. Using SMGs in Single Shot is kinda pointless given the low ROF compared to regular Pistols which roll off the same skill. Concealability is only as useful as the GM makes it and most concealable weapons are undermined by unarmed attacks and pop up weapons anyhow.Also one thing that gets me is the designers act like Night City has strict gun control and people will get pulled up for having a rifle. Yeah the lawless anarcho capitalist state has stricter gun laws than fucking Texas.>>96782514What's worse is they nerfed that gun with errata. Originally it had 31 rounds with no attachments meaning you could get 51 with a drum, making a good Autofire weapon. Now it's just a weaker AR but cheaper. Red will never have a good gear list until the writers get over their need to pointlessly overtune thing.
>>96777285Technically it's against the rules to roll your attack before the opponent calls for evasion. In practice it's easier to just roll the attack and let the opponent decide if they want to dodge or not.
>>96784962>Also one thing that gets me is the designers act like Night City has strict gun control and people will get pulled up for having a rifle. Yeah the lawless anarcho capitalist state has stricter gun laws than fucking Texas.I think you are severely underestimating what a double edged sword a "lawless anarcho capitalist state" is in these regards.
>>96742524Yes + Hotline Miami soundtrack.>>96755457Now I have faith in generation z to make some of that close to the edge feel back in fashion since they'll be living in Cold War 2 for the rest of their lives.
>>96784962Well it has 35 rounds if you look at v1.1 on their website. The gimmick of this weapon is surely autofire, because autofire doesn't care about base damage. Fuck it, everytime I talk about weapons in this game, I want to strangle the guy who made weapon DVs and damage. It's fucking nonsense %%and the reason I'm doing all my campaigns in 2020 from here on%%
>>96785144I mean sure, go to an area with a high corp presence or a gang strong hold and you're bound to be questioned and forced to disarm, but in general Night City is a dangerous place where someone wearing body armor and carrying a long arm wouldn't be that out of place. This idea that such items are not permitted outside Combat Zones seems ridiculous. It just frustrates me how Red defenders always bring up conceability when people criticise how unbalanced the weapon list is, not realising that concealability is a fringe benefit at best.>>96786020It has 35 rounds because it has an extended magazine, same as a regular AR, which is why it's priced at 600. The original version cost 500 and had 31 rounds standard
>>96705814I need some help cooking this character. Here's the cliff notes.>Girl was a malestrom ganger back in 2023 during the 4th corporate war. >Her crew got in trouble, and she ended up going cyberpsycho since she was chromed to the teeth.>MAXTAC (mostly) flatlined her ass, and Biotechnica scooped up the remains.>for about a decade, they use her brain as a testbed for therapy to treat advanced neural trauma.>Originally, Biotechnica didn't plan on bringing her back to life and was going to use her for medical studies, but they decided to repurpose her after rewiring her noodle.>Eventually, she's transformed into a corpo drone. Acting as a worker bee.>Fresh new body that looks nothing like her whole shell.>Completely new SIN courtesy of Biotechnica.>She doesn't remember her past life at all, outside some deja vu and dreams that she has no context for.Biotechnica is probably still collecting data on her. I want to run her as an exec and maybe have her do a solo 2nd role. I'll have her do low-key espionage and be a task handler for her corpo fixer. She goes to product demos and steals shit, seduces other execs to get them to divulge detes, and typical exec bullshit.I was going to start her off with muscle & bone lace, subdermal armor, and some kind of melee focus. Maybe use a Cybermatrix gang jazzler, techscanner, or some other pop-up melee weapon. I was also thinking about suggesting some latent cyberpsychosis mechanic where if her health is below 50% in combat, she goes cyberpsycho and gets a boost to stats until combat ends. Is +2 to move and/or melee weapons too crazy even if I can't control her? That'll be something for me and the ref to work out, but I hope I can do something fun like that.>That's not very meta of youI'm more concerned with an interesting character than I am chasing meta. If the character is actually decent in combat, that's a nice bonus, but I'd rather have a more interesting character.
>>96787417Uh uh.I don't know how fun giving up control of her character will be fun for you, and I don't know if giving the GM more work is feasible, especially since you're already making him play the corpo minion.>where if her health is below 50% in combat, she goes cyberpsycho and gets a boost to stats until combat endsLook up Bodyweight AutoInjector from the Hornet's Pharmacy DLC and put some Berserk or another drug in it.You don't need to do exactly that, but this should give you a sense of what passes as "balanced" in RED when it comes to the character concept that rages when they get wounded.
>>96791814>I don't know how fun giving up control of her character will be fun for you, More like a consequence for putting the character into danger. Hence, me toughening her up with the muscle and bone lace & subdermal armor. I suppose cyberpsychosis doesn't have to be a part of it, I just thought it'd be cool. Supposing I abandon the "latent cyberpsychosis" effect, can you think of other cyberware or weapons that would fit the theme of a covert sleeper agent? Do you think solo would be a good 2nd role?
>>96792093>cyberware or weapons that would fit the theme of a covert sleeper agentThe BD recorder, hidden cameras and microphone.
In character creation (in 2020) for skills with IP mods like (2) or (3) would I need to then spend 2 or 3 pickup skill points to get one point, or it is a 1 to 1 ratio?
>>96793233As far as I am aware, no.There is nothing that suggests you should pay more pickup skill points for skills with IP modifiers, and IP modifiers are explained in a section specifically about learning new skills during the game.
>>96793233>>96795051Are you serious right now? It's literally right in the section on skills in character creation. It's not even hidden. Yes, you pay twice as many points for 2x skills. There are no 3x skills, only role ability levels which you can't buy at character creation.
>>96795669Oh wait, wrong section. It's this one. Big difference that you don't have to have everything at a 2 minimum unless it's ones it says.
>>96795669Anon, the question was about Cyberpunk 2020.
>>96793233Yes they cost more
The inverse of this >>96721825 how do I play a dirty cop character well and add some flair to them so they aren't just a 2d caricature? I wanted to give lawman a shot since I've never played the role before
>>96798398What's your arc?>Old war horse cop who's been double crossed so many times they don't trust anyone and now they're out for themselves and they have a vendetta against "that one cop" who fucked them over. >A gangoon wearing a badge to help proove the innocence of one of your chooms who got locked up as a part of some corpo coverup and now you're fighting to prove their innocence even if it means breaking the law to do it.>You're a chem addict and you want to get your next fix so you join the NCPD to get a hotline for drug busts to fuel your next high. You use your police powers to shake down random gonks for your next buzz. Once you have an arc in mind that gives you a reason to be a "bad guy", build the lore from there. Establish why you do the shitty things you do. Maybe your character justifies it as "street justice" (No one is ever the villian from thier own perspective) or perhaps it's "selfish greed" (I got mine, you get yours!). My Lawman kinda straddles the morality fence. Sometimes I do dirty shit. Sometimes I do good guy stuff. He's motivated by money and protecting his friends (gay I know). He's always trying to sell stolen goods and do other under the table shit with his secondary role being fixer.
>>96793233Rules as Intended, they dohttps://youtube.com/watch?v=yzQUGHJa9pU&t=699s
In your opinion what is a reasonable amount of cyberware for a character that's fluffed as a Yoganger that has survived to adulthood to have at character creationin cyberpunk red? I get that the optimal play is to go for the muscle and bone lace and linear frame and all that, and that it is entirely possible to have that at character creation, but is that reasonable? Could a gangbanger on the street even get those kind of upgrades? How? I want to play a borged out gang banger cause that's the most cyberpunk thing there is to me personally, but when I stop to consider the logistics it just doesn't feel right. I do want to be viable but I care more about the role play than munchkinry even if I do eventually want a linear frame just cause cyborgs are cool and I can't see a cyberpunk gang banger not wanting to use chrome to get jacked as fuck.
>>96803533If you've just stopped growing, you wouldn't have cyberware that depends on your skeleton like bone lace or cyberlimbs. Eyes, audio, hidden pocket, nasal filters make sense as something installed when you were a teenager.Chip sockets so you can get by with someone else's skills.Fashionware is obvious, but it's also cheap so you don't have worry about it.
>>96803463Unironically disregard these videos. They're explaining their own homebrewed version of the game without even realizing. e.g They claim ROF is how many shots can be made per action, which is explicitly stated to be maximum per round in the book.
>>96803463I would just ignore this.Every mentioning of IP multipliers in the book specifically refers to IP.There is no way it is even slightly worth paying 18 of your frankly limited pickup skills just to get Russian language or AV tech at +6
