There is a reason why it is so hard to sell orcs as ontologically evil these days. Back in the day they were a statblock and a blurb. It all started falling apart when we started giving orcs an independent culture all their own. Once we made them into tribes and gave them society, gave them pride and honor and gave them religions, people anthropomorphized them immediately and here we are in this mess. Now it isn't to say that orcs can't have all that, but it shouldn't be something the average person should be able to emphasize with.The way to do this is to make it so that the orcs cannot create anything but horror. Anything else they steal. Orcs don't have a culture. They mimic a bastardized parody of a the cultures surrounding them, bent and misshapen to promote the war-like barbarism and violence that is all they know. Everything from how they prepare food to the music they create should be stolen and stripped of all the soul that made it good. Everything about them should be deprived of soul, meaning, depth, and community. Their language should be a guttural mix of the languages they have encountered, six or seven at least, slow and unwieldy and lacking any of the elegance and nuance of a pure language. Their religion, such that they have one, should be a bastardization of someone else's stolen long ago and grafted clumsily onto their society, bent and twisted with time to justify their unevolved, violent outbursts.This is how you make orcs that are unsympathetic.
>>96653051Sure, you're not wrong, but you're not treading any new ground here either because, and i cant empathize enough, you've just circled back to how tolkien did it. The problem isnt how orcs have been portrayed since tolkein, its a culture-wide drop of literacy
>>96653530>>96653051The Orc Question came about because WotC spent a solid decade accruing an enormous audience of new players without doing anything to assimilate them into the game culture. They didn't release new setting books, they didn't update lore, they didn't even enforce any sort of effort to "read the fucking books." They neglected their new audience like a neglectful parent, and their audience grew up maligned.
>>96653051What kind of "orc" are you talking about? Are these Tolkien inspired orcs or what.
The problem with Orcs is this: it is no fun to beat the underdog. That's it.Orcs should be strong enough to be a challenge, and evil enough so their actions are choices out of cruelty instead of necessity. They should enslave defeated enemies and kill those who defy them. They should take what they want from the weaker races and do nothing else but prepare for the next battle.
>>96653572What if you read any of the decades of preexisting fantasy literature or watched any of the decades of preexisting fantasy movies
>>96653051>Once we made them into tribes and gave them society, gave them pride and honor and gave them religions, people anthropomorphized them immediately and here we are in this mess."Once we anthropomorphized them, other people also anthropomorphized them."You want to try again but without sounding retarded?Anyway, once Warcraft 3 (and ESPECIALLY World of Warcraft) came out, the writing was on the wall. Millions of people bought Warcraft 3, 10M+ were playing WoW at any one time. D&D's cultural shadow might as well not exist in comparison.
>>96653051It's a good idea but I think you got one thing wrong.The reason why orcs can't be inherently evil is that the hobby has been taken over by wokes; neo-marxists who hate Western culture and everything they associate with it. They hate White people, the quintessential western folk, and thus they hate our "racism". Saying that certain fantasy RACES are evil reminds them too much of real-life racism, so they can't allow it in the table. They even go as far as to get rid of all racial traits because it's "bioessentialism". notice the "bio"; for them orcs, elves and dwarves are species, not magical creatures.These marxists are also secularists and cultural relativists; the idea of an objective good and evil based on metaphysical beliefs such as Catholicism (which they hate given it's the center of Western culture) is anathema to them. Notice how they rarely if ever play paladins or clerics, and when they do, it's a caricature of a fanatic zealot.The solution is going back to roots and taking over your own games. Don't apologize for what's not wrong, that's what they want. To shame you and manipulate you. Keep your fantasy races fantastical, not biological.Besides orcs are Tolkien's creation so every orc is kind of a rip-off, as opposed to mythological beings.
I think you can have interesting adventures involving orcs as supernaturally evil agents of darkness devoid of free will and you can have interesting adventures involving orcs as a fundamentally different people who clash with other races due to cultural difference.I don't see anything wrong with letting people handle orcs in whatever way they like, I mostly just find it weird when people insist that you can't have an inherently evil fantasy entity without it being racist and when people insist that you can't explore the personhood of any traditionally monstrous fantasy entity without it being woke. Guess I'm just a radical centrist.
>>96653095FPBP.>>96653051>There is a reason why it is so hard to sell orcs as ontologically evil these days. Because that only works if your game is a wargame with terrible roleplaying mechanics tacked on like TSR (and any edition of D&D really). Otherwise it's just lazy worldbuilding. "Oh here's a bunch of things that are somehow capable of free will but also incapable of choosing not to do evil" or alternatively "oh here's some vaguely humanoid things to kill because god forbid we have NPCs that make the choice to do evil rather than being able to handwave their agency".
>>96654433>"Oh here's a bunch of things that are somehow capable of free will but also incapable of choosing not to do evil"If they're incapable of goodness, they don't have free will. The possession of logic and decision-making abilities doesn't confirm the existence of free will. If they cannot choose any sort of goodness unless they're being coerced into doing so by their circumstances, then they lack free will. They're just malevolent humanoid flowcharts. The reasons for this depend on the setting and can be compelling in some cases, though orcs with actual free will who are actually people and actually capable of goodness can be compelling too.
>>96654281Are the woke, neo-Marxist white-people-haters the reason that your life hasn't turned out so great or was that all you?
There aren't many writers who have the fortitude to write orcs as evil as humanity has already been in the past. It's more often a caricature of evil, and I feel part of why they try to wipe it away from systems these days is because even the caricature makes them uncomfortable. It reminds them that even they are still just a stupid, violent ape that revels in cruelty and death against their enemies.
>>96654497>If they're incapable of goodness, they don't have free will.Yes, that's my point. They lack intelligence and sapience, and thus they lack free will.You can either have:>Orcs that are always evil and will always perform monstrous, evil acts that lack a society, culture, intelligence, and sapience and are little more than bipedal animals with pilfered weapons>Orcs that are not always evil and those that do evil choose to do so because they have society, culture, intelligence, and sapience and are proper humanoid creaturesYou cannot have both. Either your Orcs are basically just another animal to throw at the party, or they're sapient beings capable of rational thought and choice. And let me tell you, the former is always worse than the latter, because a creature that chooses to do evil - even if they're doing it because they enjoy it and not for any deeper sympathetic reason - is always going to be more interesting at the table than "here's what amounts to an animal with an axe".
>>96653051The problem is they made orcs lame ass barbarian savages when they should have been decadent late stage western Romans.
The hard-learned lesson is the simple Good vs Evil worldbuilding works best in the end. Having excess nuance and morally grey races is opening a pandora's box full of worms. Please establish this simplicity before starting a campaign.
>>96653051Traditional games?
>>96655065Or they just don't see anyone but their own kind as "people". Sure they can learn your language, but they only do it to better hurl insults and make you fearful in war and enslavement.
I've found I truly hate the cynical, nihilistic and nonspiritual people I have or had in my life. A good friend of mine knew my world was full of gods and mysticism and still went with his character all "I'm an atheist, fuck your gods!". It was just cringe and nonsensical since atheism does not exist in my world. Then I understood that these people play only self-inserts and their personalities are insufferable.Now why this is relevant to the Orc question? The exactly same phenomena happens with Orcs too. They instantly make the real-world allegory of Orcs to be something morally grey. He watches Andor and thinks it's the best Star Wars ever, while I think it's not Star Wars at all. There is no simple Good vs Evil there. It's a snorefest of a political commentary without any of the mysticism required by the setting. It's all just real world allegory to him as his materialist brain cannot appreciate anything mystical. Only envy and contempt against the rich and some imagined fascist regime. He sees an orc and instantly think it's racist not to try to befriend it immediately. Or if it's a fascist orc, which can happen sometimes when the allegory switches places, he tries to power-game like the worst munchkin in order to achieve this greatest power-fantasy of all, punching wrongthinkers.I'm sick and tired of these cynical hypocrites putting real world politics or contemporary ideologies into the sphere of epic poetry, true fantasy and adventure games where they don't belong! If I'm constructing a fantasy adventure in the milieu of heroic manly knights slaying orcs I don't need none of the gritty, low fantasy, "realistic", onions-version of the thing.
>>96653051You missed the worldbuilding general.
>>96655260While you're not wrong in the sense that your players should make characters that fit your setting, the way you got their is lame and gay, and you suck.
>>96655172So... lame-ass barbarian savages.
>>96655260You are the most boring fucking typist on this entire fucking board.
>>96653051>weFuck off.
>>96655172For me it is the semi-feudal orcs led by a more intelligent evil sorcerer.
>>96655376He also got mindfucked by the stupid "reddit spacing" meme where using double linebreaks between paragraphs is bad, making his post unreadable.
>>96655260Your post is fine and readable, so soulless redditors can keep seething futher.
>>96653051>orcs as ontologically evilorcs are ontologically evil and slaying them on a daily basis is the self-purpose of all good men. They are a cancerous abomination.
>>96653051>Everything from how they prepare food to the music they create should be stolen and stripped of all the soul that made it good. Everything about them should be deprived of soul, meaning, depth, and community. >Orcs are investment firms
>>96654532> nooo it's not real you chud!!! it's been debunked by professional fact checkersYeah buddy quit ruining other people's games
>>96655260>filtered by andorkek
>>96653051My issue is making Orcs inherently evil is just lazy and leaves me asking "How would a group of evil people make a society in the first place if all they can do is destroy?" Even if the society is built on stealing, it is still a society that was built.Now you can make it so their culture makes them evil, as opposed to being evil "because they are". You can say that Orc society sees power as the end all, be all. Any species weaker than them are beneath them. So they can pillage, murder, and/or rape lesser species all they want, simply because they're bigger.
>>96656230>Now you can make it so their culture makes them evilCulture is downstream from genes, anon. Orcs are evil because their genetics make them short-tempered and unintelligent.
>>96653051>>96654281>>96655260These are all OP. He too shy to scream about niggers on /pol/ so he does this instead.
>>96656242That's even more boring than the explanation that Tolkien considered sub-standard
>>96654281>Catholics>GoodHow brown are you?
>>96656242I would argue environment plays a big factor. Scientists thought Brown Bears and Grizzlies to be different species until it was found the size difference was due to different diet based on their location. Any species would have to adapt to whatever environment they're placed.People would be influenced by where they live and what else is around them (i.e. plants, animals, other cultures).>>96656267What explanation was that?
>>96656322>bears>humansThe thing about our species (and any fantasy species that resemble homo sapiens, i.e elfs, dwarfs, hobbits etc) is that cultural evolution outpaces natural evolution by about six orders of magnitude.
>>96653051The Slippery Slope is always fallacious, by definition.There is no "problem." Nothing went "wrong." Want Orcs to be ontrologically evil, have societies, cultures and honor? Describe them that way.It's your fuckin' table and you're not beholden to anyone or anything.
>>96656275muh brown
>>96655260Don't mind the naysayers, they're triggered because they are leftists or insecure about themselves. I do like gritty sword & sorcery fantasy over epic quests of good and evil, but I absolutely get your point. These people, if they could, would be dictators.
>>96656230> "How would a group of evil people make a society in the first place if all they can do is destroy?"Ask a Turk.
>>96656406>gritty sword & sorcery fantasyAnyone who unironically types "gritty" past 2010 should go back.
>>96656387>posts pic of white built church currently being squatted in>not of his skinkek
>>96653821That’s not how it works. The last great fantasy push was 20 years ago, and between there and now was a lot of post-modernist worship of “nuance.” The inability to build upon what Orciness means is a sign of neglect, so of course people will come in and try to reinterpret things themselves.A culture that only exists in the past is dead. WotC did nothing with updating FR during the height of the setting’s popularity which means they lost the reins on dictating what their setting is like.
>>96655260>>96656406Stop trying to turn everything into identity politics. It's stupid and annoying and has nothing to do with anyone but you.Whether orcs are portrayed as evil has nothing to do with your identity politics, nor should you surmise anything about someone else's identity politics based on how they portray their orcs.Step out of the confused haze of toxic propaganda that you have been fed, play a ttrpg, and contain your fucking spaghetti.
>>96656016>Orcs are late stage capitalism satire>"We must sack the city of BigCity because this is the natural conclusion to maximising profits at the expense of our customers!"Truly, we have arrived.
>>96653775But humans can do that to, in fact its more engaging when man inflicts such cruelties on man. Or in reverse, when man shows compassion to man instead of filling the role with an elf or nymph or whatever. Fantasy races are overused. There should always be a supernatural, unhuman aspect to them. Jackson did it well by showing Uruk-Hai being born from evil mud or whatever. They are not human, they are not even natural.If your fantasy race can be replaced with humans without anything changing, then they should just be humans.
>>96656466>The last great fantasy push was 20 years agoNonsense.There are more fantasy novels, movies, tv shows and ttrpgs begin sold today than at any point in the history of mankind. It's been growing year over year over year. Your complaints are about your ignorance. No one else can help you learn what's happened in fantasy over the last 20 years. You'll have to learn that for yourself.
>>96655260You are a living example of horseshoe theory, having reached the same destination as your opponents of becoming an utterly insufferable fuck.
>>96653051There's nothing wrong with orcs.
>>96656576nta but all this "new" slop builds on conventions established decades ago, there is no original thought in fantasy and if you think commercial sales indicate otherwise you are a retard.
>>96656651You are suffering from the survivorship bias.What you remember from one generation, or two generations back, is the very best of what that generation had to offer. What you see around you is everything that your generation has to offer. You compare the two and think that what your generation has is worse.You only think that because it hasn't yet been 20 years, and you're thinking of everything popular in this very moment, and comparing that to everything that stood the test of time from previous generations. Of course it doesn't stand up. But that's not because "everything sucks now." It's because everything contemporary has not-yet had two decades of filtering down to what was best.Look we all remember Super Mario Brothers and Metroid and Contra as the best video games ever. But that's not because "wow video games suck now." It's because those games are forty fucking years old and you've forgotten every the vst majority of games from that period that were exactly as big of pieces of shit as the vast majority of what games come out today. They haven't been selected out, yet. They haven't been winnowed.Read books and you'll find plenty that are every fucking bit as good, today. The only reason you'll find more that suck? Because no one fucking remembers all the ones from 40 years ago that sucked. No one cares.
>>96656650I agree, but the concept around them changed.Orcs were Evil for the same reason gnolls are: the creations of evil gods bent towards the destruction of humanity.Now that the zeigeist has moved away from the humanocentric view of the past, orcs at least as Evil doesn't hold as much water.
>>96656682>Read books and you'll find plenty that are every fucking bit as good, today.Oh yeah, like what?
>>96656845Well I'm pretty fucking excited about the next novel of The Black Company coming out this November.You are repeating the same "kids these days" bullshit that you thought made your parents sound like idiots. You are not special. Your generation is not special. Nothing is ever new.
>>96653051Is weird that things created by good gods can become evil but things created by evil gods can't become good, it implies good is less powerful than evil and redemption it's impossible.
>>96656896So create things differently. It's your table.
>>96656865>The black company40 years old>You are repeating the same "kids these days" blablablaAnd you aren't clever.
>>96656912>40 years oldNo it comes out this November, anon.>And you aren't clever.I guess that depends on who you compare me to. Sorry for your loss.
>>96656682Nta but while you are correct about survivorship bias the ratio of bad to good is heavily more skewed towards bad today. Take movies for example, in the 90s and 00s there were several classic iconic movies coming out each year in multiple genres. Now we are lucky to get a single decent film a year. Now with books, I don't read as much as I used to and I will fully admit that I read lots of bad fantasy books when I was heavily reading but the shear volume of "romantasy" books being released that have taken over the genre. Looking for a new book to read that will be "good" is becoming an increasingly annoying chore as I have to sift through a larger quantity of crap each year.
>>96657034You're acknowledging the thing and then exactly describing the symptoms of it.Know why Firefly went off the air? No one watched it on TV. No one. Who doesn't think it's one of the all-time great shows of ever, today?You think that there's a derth of quality because the good things haven't been picked out, yet. You didn't watch Firefly when it was on the air. Neither did I. Neither did anyone else. It was the least-watched show on the network. If we were having this conversation when it was on the air? You wouldn't know it existed. And neither would anyone else in the conversation. Twenty years later? Everyone one of us points to it as an example of "how much better things used to be."
>>96656920NTA but that anon roasted you. You can't just try to defend modern media saying we have star wars or any old franchise when these are 40 years old
>>96657247Just to provide another example:The Lord of the Rings was published in 1954. Until the mid 60s? No one had ever heard of it.
>>96657261>roastedAsked for an example of a good book this year. Provided example. Your whinging about it isn't important to me, anon.
>>96657274Acting like a passive agressive bitch won't earn you any points here underage. >But I provided an example!yes a 40 year old example in a conversation about the decadence of modern fantasy media>>96657267>>96657267>Until the mid 60s? No one had ever heard of it.The fuck are you talking about? The Hobbit was already a best-seller and people were waiting for LoTR by the year
>>96657317>Thinks facts are about zingersYou're a fool and it's not my problem. Want an example of a book coming out this year that'll be good? I provided you one. No: it's not 40 years old. It'll be published this year.>The Hobbit was already a best-seller and people were waiting for LoTR by the yearLearn. You are wrong. neither the Hobbit nor Lord of the Rings were popular until the 1960s. LotR was successful enough to cover publishing costs, when it came out. Only 1500 copies of the Hobbit were even printed, when it came out in 1937.
>>96657034>no you don't understand, I' not subject to bias, I'm juet making a judgement solely based on my personal observations without anyway of comparing it to anything else.
>>96657247I was simply pointing out the ratio is more skewed then its ever been in history. You seem genuinely upset.
>>96653051I like the classics, as its from I made my own setting from, so my prefered orcs, are a mix of the Harn gargun ones (eusocial, differente breeds, alien, they hate humans, elfs and dwarfs but some tribes will trade with them if raiding isn't worth it, differente tribes and they own shenaningans like colonies swarms and wipeouts for rights to get to the queens etc). They can't reproduce with humans, so no half orcs, they kind of only respect strength from outsiders, but will turn at the least weakness, can be quite numerous or be some puny bands of half starved rejects. I also take ideas from other places, but I mainly copied the harn ones.
>>96657394Anon it doesn't upset me to teach you. I'm happy to do it.
>>96656682As a late zoomer I find any random book from before the eighties slays way more than whatever we have know. Sanderson is terrible, Malazan is a mess, I can't get the cuck of the Second apocalipsis to be taken seriously after he anally rapes yet again a major character, Abercombie wolrdbuillding bores me tough he makes good characters, China Meville is a bunc of barely choerent stuff made to shock, wich turns boring fast (I droped one of his books after the mc was fucking a bug woman), and anything else I read is mediocre at best. Not a Vance, not a Moorcock even, let's not talk about a Lovercraft or Howard, and much less a Tolkien.
>>96657436>As a late zoomer I find any random book from before the eighties slays way more than whatever we have know.That's because the only books from the 80s that you find are the ones that are still being read, 45 years later.Only 1500 copies of the Hobbit were published in 1937. If this was 1937? You never would have heard of it. You have today. You find the things that are popular today to be lower quality than the very best of things from generations past? They are. That's because you've never heard of the very best of things being produced today. It'll be a decade or more before you are capable of identifying them.
>>96657403You haven't taught anything. You just keep saying in 20 years we will be proven wrong.
>>96657450>You haven't taught anything.I can only teach you, anon. It's up to you to learn.
>>96657450>You just keep saying in 20 years we will be proven wrong.Correct.This is called "survivorship bias." As I explained here: >>96656682This is an incredibly well-studied, well-known issue. It is fact.
>>96657445Find me one Jack Vance or any of the weird tales ones. It doesn't exist. Lots of mediocre shovelware than talks about nothing interesting or Del Rey subversions, than were stale 30 years ago and now just make me weep with boredom. I don't even want a Wolfe or Tolkien. A Clarck Ashton Smith or Lewis equivalent.
>>96657565>the point>your headYou don't know what will be remembered from 2025 as the best novels published in 2025. You won't know until 2035 or later.This is the point you seem to be missing.In 1937, 1500 copies of The Hobbit were published. I wouldn't be able to have pointed to it in 1937. You wouldn't have been able to point to it in 1937. Neither one of us would know it exists.
>>96653051>"How come no ontologically evil orcs??>Turns out it's just a stealth Nazi threadYep.
Because everyone kept on making them more and more human both in looks and behavior. Notice how gnolls are still horrible monsters, and have visually changed very little?
>>96657602? I don't care about what will be remembered, I tell you to say some good authors you think exist right now.
>>96657674Then scroll up. I already gave an example of a book I'm eagerly awaiting the publication of, this November.
>>96657702Mate the black company is a 40 year old series.
>>96653051>the orcs cannot create anything but horror. Anything else they steal. Orcs don't have a culture. They mimic a bastardized parody of a the cultures surrounding them, bent and misshapen to promote the war-like barbarism and violence that is all they know. Everything from how they prepare food to the music they create should be stolen and stripped of all the soul that made it good. Everything about them should be deprived of soul, meaning, depth, and community. Their language should be a guttural mix of the languages they have encountered, six or seven at least, slow and unwieldy and lacking any of the elegance and nuance of a pure language. Their religion, such that they have one, should be a bastardization of someone else's stolen long ago and grafted clumsily onto their society, bent and twisted with time to justify their unevolved, violent outbursts.Genuinely surprised no-one's said "Orcs are americans then?", but then /tg/ is a declining board these days. could actually be pretty cool / funny if done well
>>96656054>Kult will destroy youIronically, Kult would also destroy this person because they'd rather live in the Demiurge pod than let go of their own ideology.True Kult PC energy is looking the Neo-nazi (Or communist, or anyone else really) square in the eye, taking a long, slow drag on your cigarette and going 'You want to know whose behind the Jews (/Capitalists)? Come with me Alice, we're going down the rabbit hole together.'They might not make it, but being too prejudice against anyone for their fake, gay beliefs (For all beliefs in the Kult setting are fake and gay) to try and save someone, anyone, from the whack-ass prison reality means you're not channelling the spirit of Francis E. Dec hard enough to stand victorious in the world of Kult.
>>96654356What are these reasonable opinions doing in my /tg/?
>>96657343No, you're actually full of shit.>It was published in 1937 to wide critical acclaim, being nominated for the Carnegie Medal and awarded a prize from the New York Herald Tribune for best juvenile fiction.>The publisher was encouraged by the book's critical and financial success and, therefore, requested a sequel. As Tolkien's work progressed on its successor, The Lord of the Rings, he made retrospective accommodations for it in The Hobbit.The Hobbit was popular from day one. That's why the publisher asked for a sequel and that's why Tolkien managed to gain continental renown. After that the popularity of Tolkien only increased, but it never was some obscure fantasy novel nobody known until some random guy decided to publish it decades after the fact. Don't think you can re-write history to win an argument.
>>96657708Lies Weeping will be published November 4th, 2025.Are you suggesting it doesn't count as coming out in 2025, because it's not the author's first novel?
>>96656230My orcs are humans possessed and corrupted by the demon slaves of Orcus the God of Undeath.They become His unholy vassals and receive the gift of necromancy as payment for spoiling a mortal and denying the forces of good another soldier.That is how I solved the problem of the ambiguous orc. Not lazy, I put a lot of thought into it for months I believe. Quite ingenious if I say so myself.
>>96657969You're still ignoring the part where only 1,500 copies were published in 1937. Did journals that review novels review it? Of course.
>>96657619>stealth NaziAll my niggas heil Hitler.>>96657755>For all beliefs in the Kult setting are fake and gay"There is no objective truth" is in itself fake and gay belief. So that makes Kult a kind of gayrobouros, doesn't matter what you do or don't do, you're sitll fake and gay.Sounds about right for a misery porno setting.
>>96658169>"There is no objective truth" is in itself fake and gay belief. So that makes Kult a kind of gayrobouros, doesn't matter what you do or don't do, you're sitll fake and gay.See, that's where you're wrong, there is an objective truth in Kult.The objective truth is 'Everything we've been raised to believe is fake and gay, and someone very intentionally made it that way. That fucker.'
>>96658411>Everything we've been raised to believe is fake and gay, and someone very intentionally made it that way. That fucker.Gnosticism is ~2000 years old officially and probably at least twice that, since there is an element of gnostic ethos in Plato's writings. But this is a gay leftist spin - let's be mad at THE MAN in charge. For a refreshing change, that MAN is the faggot Demiurge instead of the writer's absentee father, but stop pretending KULT has any depth. But holy shit, it does over-the-top edgy right.
>>96653051i feel like this works if you have orcs be a constructed race ala Tolkien, if they are a naturally born race however take the more modern approach.
>>96655260>He watches Andor and thinks it's the best Star Wars ever, while I think it's not Star Wars at all. There is no simple Good vs Evil there. It's a snorefest of a political commentary without any of the mysticism required by the setting.>Conveniently leaves out the entire conflict of the rebellion vs empire and how the series makes it abundantly clear the empire is still evil, although in a mundane way and the ghor's entire culture with heavy mysticism vibesi think your just stupid anon.
>>96658075Nothing was ignored. You were making the argument that "nobody knew fantasy classics back in the day" to defend the slop that is produced en masse today when that's untrue. Fantasy classics already had their own following back in the day, people talked about them and they got proper reviews in literary magazines and circles. Culture has stagnated due to monopoly corporations killing it with their anti-creativity scheme. We don't need dumbasses like you trying to sell the lie that it was always like that.
>>96653051shut the fuck up retard"stuff wuz better"you dont know shitorcs werent barbariansshit went south when they were described that way because it made people feel like they were punching downand nerds are used to being punched down onwhat orcs weresoldierykillerslovers of violencepeople who fought to fight, not to see an end to itbut moreorcs are the extension of national evil through those killersits why they were so german for so longthat connected orcs to german self mytholigization making them mongolvikingsthat generated into "scary invader society" which then became its most basal and philosophically impotent rendition."barbarian"which during the next historical reexamining craze made us ask if we the romanesque adventurers were the baddies.why cant we have evil orcs? because the guys who wrote D&D were wargamers, great man historians,orc cheerleaders without the brains to realize it. none could understand what tolkein was saying. TLDR orcs ceased to be a warning because gaymers didn't understand they ever were one.
>>96658485to spread falsehood for your own serenity is the call of the demiurgeyou know nothing about these people but cannot operate without discrediting them so you invent a reality to live in.do not fall into the snare. lower a rope do not stamp the face.im here with ya psychic anon.
>>96658722Gayest post I read today, quite the feat.
>>96653051Read 'Ballad of the White Horse' and openly steal from it to make your orcs cool again.You're welcome.
>>96658795>Ballad of the White HorseThe chestertone one? Why.
>>96659087Because it's the single best depiction of orcs in all of literature.Book 3 gives the perspective of the Vikings/Pagans on life and it's basically a perfect outline for orcs and the followers of chaos in any given setting.https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1719/1719-h/1719-h.htm#link2H_4_0004I won't do a full breakdown of the poem but the 4 Viking leaders basically represent aspects of what Chesterton considered to be 'Pagan Nihilism'.The Hedonist who would break the entire world just because he likes the smashing sound.The Pessimist for whom all things are temporary and therefore nothing matters so why bother with building things, or virtue?The hateful, destructive soul who despises existence itself and would see the Old Gods return because fuck you if I'm going to die then why should anyone live beyond me.And the philosopher king who is aware of the hollowness of his beliefs and applies that to existence itself, to the point where outside of battle he has to wonder if he's even really alive anymore.It's like a blueprint for running good, old fashioned high fantasy of the best kind and, just as importantly, it fucks like a rabbit OD'ing on Spanish fly.
>>96653051>waaah complex moral questions frighten meok and?
>>96659183based chesterton poster
>>96657274Do you have an example that isn't from a longstanding series. Something fresh, something new. Especially from an author that has not yet achieved widespread notoriety?
>>96657631I got some bad news for you anon, at least outside of Forgotten Realms.
>>96656275Protcuck hands typed this post. Remember to fill Pastor Jim's donation basket up, he needs a new Cadillac, this one's gonna be blue!
>>96656650I never noticed all the flies and the disgusting mess on their table before. I think the implication is that they're looking down on the viewer, while ironically being disgusting trashy slobs themselves. Notice the men in the background have a nice and neat clean table in comparison.
>>96656865Man, that series lost me in book three with that gay-ass ending. "Oh we ride back and forth to move the magic field centered on our holy lady of disappointing character arcs such that it only releases one monstrosity at a time. Then we redeem the Lady and turn her into a powerless love interest out of nowhere because the author is a coomer that doesn't have the balls to kill her." If I ended a tabletop campaign like that I would regret it the rest of my life. Ending a book like that is only redeemable via suicide.
>>96659863Gnolls are a rare example of taking an "evil" race and still letting them be monster-bait while expanding on their lore more. Anchor Root is a stock archetype character for a mediocre university adventure written during the height of Black Lives Matter, but that doesn't matter for this post that still works because Gnolls in Golarion are written around an intense tribal identity. To a Gnoll, the tribe is all and the tribe is everything. This means you could get "cute" Gnolls that like to engage with civilized people, but those same Gnolls will be very comfortable abandoning those people to die (or worse) if it means helping the Tribe.
>>96656431NTA but you're not in /pol/. You have 0 right to ask any fa/tg/uy about their skin color. Adress their argument or fuck off tourist.
>>96660123You gonna call out a protestant when the pope was over there brushing gold leaf onto a 5 year old boy's asshole to make it holy enough to stuff his rancid, wilted cock into.
>>96660293Rights don't exist. They are a collective delusion we entertained for a while as a bit, like when bugs bunny fucks with elmer fudd. We played musical chairs with you for a while, but the game is over. We are sitting in the chair, we have all the power, and you have your "rights" which were just a fiction we spun. Enjoy whats coming.
>>96658485>hylic Third time I've seen this word on /tg/ today. Did some you tuber use it so now it's the new buzzword?
>>96660355Matt Mercer used it a couple of times on Critical Roll.
>>96656424The sharty is that way.Please return there and don't come back.
>>96660355>Did some you tuber use it so now it's the new buzzword?Yeah, two bussin' rizz tubers from 2k years ago, Marcion and Valentinus, used that word because they thought 'normie' sounds lame. >>96660393Sharty is not even a pale shadow of h8techan.
>>96660409Yes yes anon I know its an old word but its very rarely used if ever and to see ot used 3 times in a single day in different threads leads me to believe some idiots have just "discovered" it.
>>96660282I think Paizo would disagree with you. They've distanced themselves away from how Gnolls used to be in PF1e, to the degree that I think the last time there was one that was evil was in Age of Ashes. "Anchor Root" is meant to represent the new gnolls, while they ignore that Katapesh and vast swaths of the rest of eastern Garund should be filled with demon-worshipping warbands that happily enslave people.Oh but slavery is outlawed now (by decree of crying freelancers) and somehow the evil beastmen (we got rid of alignment too!) won't even enslave people anymore. Ah... and them really trying to squeegee Lamashtu clean, sweeping under the rug that one of her edicts is to indoctrinate children.And this is of course also being applied to Orcs in the setting, too.
>>96660440>but its very rarely used if everIt used to be a regularly used insult on /pol/ before 2015-2016 brought in unironically mainstream Christian newfags who woud turn pale at a mere mention of Gnosticism and for whatever reason conflate it with Satanism or Judaism because of terminal direction-brain.
>>96660535Ew. You actually browsed that filth?
>>96660640I heil Hitler, retard-kun. Modern /pol/ is unusable because it has EVEN MORE shill/bot spam than /tg/, and most threads on /tg/ are automated.
>>96660653The sissy that lost the war?
>>96660678The brave man who fought a war against impossible odds and still almost won. Something a worthless worm such as you will never understand.
>>96660703Were the designer uniforms worn by the commanders who were promoted for their jawlines part of that fighting? Dude was a soft, limp-wristed, little nancyboy who got his ass kicked by a supply clerk.
>>96660678>>96660763Yet you people have to ban his symbols and twist his history with 24/7 anti-nazi propaganda to prevent his movement from rising again.
>>96656473They made it about identity politics, we were just slaying orcs...
>>96660800>Pivots hard. Can't answer the fact that we was soft, little baby bitch or got his ass beat by a supply clerk.Damn, I Eisenhower-pilled a /pol/-tard. Belt out "America the Beautiful" for me, boy.
>>96660839Nope, the leader who helped lift a nation from poverty and made it a world superpower. It took other three superpowers and bankrupting the British Empire to bring them down, and ever since they lost, the world turned globalist and gay.No more attention for this leftist.
>>96660854Don't lie. You already ordered that American flag for your wall on amazon. We both know it. What was it? You noticed how much of a scrawny wuss little h was, didn't you? His glass jaw? The gay, little sidepart like he was still in middle school? This is your first step becoming a man. You are taking your first uncertain steps out of what should have been your high school edgelord phase into adulthood. granted you are pushing 40, but better late than never.
>>96653051So... Russian?
>>96654433Its not lazy, its just simple and avoids needless philosophical sophistry from ivory tower cunts
>>96653051Orcs are black-coded
>>96655172what if they're white trash cockney football hooligans
>>96661032I know, right. So warlike. All those black guys that created the Somme.
>>96661039
>>96661097I accept your defeat.
>>96653051>speak a bastard language>culture is just a watered-down version of the cultures of others>warlike>their religion is just someone else’s with some stupid stuff grafted onOrcs are white Christian Americans?
>>96661124It took 138 posts for someone to understand what I was implying. I am proud of myself and you.
>>96661146LMFAOOOOOO
>>96661146We sure did give the orc treatment to the Indians, the Philippines, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again
>>96654281Well that and they want to devalue "evil." Noticed anything that isn't a Straight White Man is always pushed into being something due to reasons. Often pushing something like a "CEO, pope, or Trump" like figure as the real villain all along. I mean at they done this so often. You can kind of tell. Unless the white man is a beta male or gay AF. He is a villain or the dumb bimbo that just the butt of every joke. Yeah, these people would bitch and whine if that was to happen to any other group. At this point someone needs to go back and make them back as the butt of the joke. Especially making them just them but not in their fantasy world so no plot armor saving their ass. You could maybe sell something by doing the DEI squad pulling up only to be fucking wasted like they did with that battlefield trailer.
>>96661452It is okay, 4chan user. I believe you when you say you are oppressed.
>>96661685Fuck off back to Bluesky you groomer
Guys, I think we should van political discussion.
>>96661819Shhhh. Shhhhhh. It is ok. I understand you, bro. I understand how oppressed you are. I am here for you, bro. I know a cry for help when I see one. Let's talk.
