How old were YOU when you became disillusioned with Warhammer?
When I hit puberty
>>96665140When the 5th edition codex for the orks dropped, invalidating half of my models. This also tied in with the slow creep of 'only using official models!', meaning that much of my scratch built vehicles were no longer welcome in many games.I had other armies, a 1st edition Marine Company, 2nd edition Nids, etc, but they had long been replaced by later 'approved' models and were not welome either. I got an inkling on how GW was doing a 'rinse and repeat' with the rules and models then, but clung on until 5th because the 3rd ed ork codex had been unchanged for a decade.I've been happily playing battltech ever since, using the same rules and models I collected in the 80s even today.
>>96665140When did 3ed come out?
When I tried to come back to it after 15-ish years and heard they'd blown up the Old World.
>>96665288There was no 5th edition codex for orks, and 5th edition brought IA8 with it, giving us a level of scratchbuilding flexibility not seen since VDR were a thing
>>96665140When I learned about it, when I first came to this board, years ago.
>>96665140Back in 2011 or so.
>>96665140Warhammer is weird because is the only wargame that actively pushes an extremely high percentage of its players away. Most wargames eventually get forgotten, the players try other things and move on, but they still like the games they 'used to play',Warhammer is different, people don't stop playing it because they found another game they like or they moved to something else, people stop playing it because they grow to disdain it, the egregious pricing, the bad rules, the scalping, the gayification of the lore, the constant price hikes, the FOMO, the scale creep, the rules bloat, the pandering to tourney shit, etc. Any one of these problems is a valid reason to avoid a game, but the problem is that there are SO many of these glaring problems with Warhammer, it really is amazing that it attracts so many people in the first place
>>96665140For me the thing that killed Warhammer was the frequent and haphazard rules changes. I just can't get emotionally invested in a game that can't decide what its rules are.
>>96665419>the bad rulesthis hasn’t jumped out at me as much as when I finally went to other wargames. Why the fuck has this game stayed as “one entire army moves shoots and acts and the other entire army does so second” for so long? They acknowledge the mistake too in horus heresy with reactions which somewhat remedies the shittiness but just why do they refuse to change it to something less shit?
>>96665575Their whales will have an absolute meltie if they changed the basic turn structure... and then they'd keep buying the rules anyways. That's the thing, there is no reason they don't change it. The problem is that the majority of their writers aren't actual wargamers, they have only even played Warhammer and nothing else. I seriously think they don't bother looking into other rulesets and stealing their good ideas.
>>96665140About 18-19 ish
>>966651405e wardexes. Was about 20 at the time.
Never really got into it but last year. Watching an Escalation League encouraged me to absolutely never play it.>Several friends were in an Age of Sigmar Escalation League>Would hang out at the store and watch them play>Watched about twelve games or so>Every game was a massive, onesided blowout>Would ask my friends if their opponent (Sometimes another friend) just played some really crazy strategy or gambit>Only once did they say "Yeah, he did some really desperate dive on my HQ and blew it up with some good rolls.">Every other game was "Oh, my army doesn't turn on at this point amount." or "Oh, their build hard counters mine."
>this bait gets posted almost every single day>with the exact same image, too>still gets repliesno wonder this board is in fucking shambles
>>96666831Because I want to take the opportunity to bitch about the current state of something I used to really like
>>96666831It's not the same image, that's a fairly new one. They all look the same to you because 40kucks put zero effort into their soulless slop terrain
>>96665140How does this even work with TLoS?>inb4: it doesn't
>>96665140Once everyone started getting fliers, and when Knights and their equivalents started happening. To me that is when the writing was on the wall of the direction things were going. Primaris we just the final confirmation that things were irreparably fucked.
>>9666514010th edition. I was able to get some enjoyment from 8th and 9th but 10th is pure slop for the zoomer e-sport audience.
When White Dwarf did two consecutive issues with no Warhammer Fantasy around 2005 and all the local GW replaced their Warhammer Fantasy tables with 40shit
>>96669204so you are saying Dawn of War is to be blamed?
Every 3-5 years
>>96665140going on 50 and I still have not had that revelation... oh well
>>96665419This is complete nonsense. People stop playing Warhammer all the time just like people stop playing other games or stopping any other hobby if their interest in it fades. It's a normal process. These people just don't post about it online. Only a small majority of those whose hobby focus was online before does that.
>>96665323Did a search on the Lexicanum did you? The Lexicanum website is incorrect. It has the ork codex that came out at the start of 5th labeled as 4th. There was no 4th edition booklet - The 3rd edition codex dropped in 1999 with the release of the 3rd edition game (1998) and the orks had no upgrade for an entire wonderful decade until 2008. It was glorious, we had Gorkamorka (with cross game compatible vehicles!), had extra units and formations added in the Armagehdon Booklet, Vehicle Design Rules that allowed you to include anything you could build, White Dwarf publishing more detailed ork clans as well as primitive orks (using WHFB models in 40k basically). We watched other codexes squat units from other races time after time while the orks remained untouched FOR TWO EDITIONS (3rd ed 1998 and 4th ed 2004, until 5th 2008). 5th Edition came out in 2008, the same year as this new codex for orks, replacing the previous era of scratchbuilding and improvisation, with the current "You must ALL only use these!" planned obselescence sales boosting tactics. The spirit of orky play died that year, removing the ability to use many of the models and builds many of us had made with the previous rules, replaced with the current limited number of official bland cooky cutter in house produced models and rules.2010 IA8? The Forge World Booklet that came out two years after we had our armies squatted? Thet was just a way to tap in on the addicts and enforce the 'You must only use our products' sales tactic. I admit, FW did do some good stuff, but god man, the price! It was a complete contrast with the 'make it yourself' ork modelling community that 5th ed killed. "No, you can't use any of the scratchbuilt Battlewagons or Gargants you used to use in the game, but here, if you give us hundreds of pounds, you can use one of these expensive fragile resin cookie cutter models AND NOTHING ELSE!" Also, many of those models were soon squatted in turn in following years.
>>96665575Andy Chambers (editor of early ork codexes, etc) left Games Workshop in 2003 due to dissatisfaction with the company's direction and internal issues. He created Bolt Action, a game that uses individual unit activation. (you take turns activating individual units, having to pass pin tests to activate them if they had taken casualties or pinned in previous turns) GW can't use a similar same system and sticks with the current YGIG turn structure because it is ran by the suits that disliked Andy's ideas.
>>96666831GW has pissed off a A LOT of players over the years with their 'churn' sales tactics, trying to get them to dump their old collections and buy new ones. I mean, TEN edition changes? Countless unusable models due to no longer supporting them? WTF are they playing at?Think of it as previous burnt players warning new innocent players the dangers of the hot stove, as well as a feeble attempt to get GW to stop fucking their customers over in their drive for short term profits.
>>96669471They will bring back 40K old world where we can play 4th edition again
>>96669450The sad part is that Necromunda 2017 adopted the activation system and works great. I imagine that they won't do it ever for 40k simply because it is considered too radical a change, and they don't want to bother having multiple editions or variants with different rules. Which largely be because they are still stuck in the headspace that they are selling models not rulesets.
>>96665140I only just got into it so I'll get back to you
>>96669504nothing is stopping you from playing 4th edition, or any other edition for that matter
>>96669423>drive bikes into tank companies backline>blow up everything including the bikesOld Orks had so much sovl. I tried to get into it again but really dislike most of the new models, buggies excuded.
>>96666831That's a different table, anon. It's not the op's fault that you 40kiddies cannot make fun terrain and place it in an interesting layout anymore. It's your guys fault every board is mirror matched L shape ruins.>>96665140When 6th hit, by 7th I was only playing because of habit, and I jumped ship at 8th. 5th was okay.Recently some of us have got back in to playing 4th and 5th edition games, using common sense to work cool new units into older rules. 1200 - 1500 point games, narrative terrain, scenarios we make up, it's fun. Fuck nuhammer.
>>96669204>fantasy was already dying during 2005Grim
>>96669266>I'm the manchildest of manchildrenNice self-own, unc
>>96667058You spam lasers and delete everything from the board turn 1.
>seething about changing rules>seething about holding onto rules and refusing to changeyou're just old
>>96670403>change good rules>keep bad rulesSimple as.
>>96670412no matter what rules you change you're going to get whining grogs and tabletop reactionaries. you still get fa/tg/uys arguing about what chainmail and rogue trader era creators really intended for their respective franchises
>>96670374and proud of it kid
>>96670401>You spam lasers you won't hit shit because of light refraction
>>96671727ballistic skill issue
>>96671763it's not even ballistics, it's optics
>>9666514040,000 10th edition was really bad but I just moved to 30k and Old World. Then 30k 3.0 dropped and I realized GW is on a mission to ruin all of their games. I play Bolt Action now.
>>96665140what do the circles mean?or are they just protractors?
>>96671727notice how the incident angle and exiting angle are the same?passing through a slab of material like this just offsets the beam a little, determined by the thickness of the slab and index of refraction of the material.
oh, and the incident angle too. the beam shifts less the closer the incident angle is to 0 from the surface normal
>>96672481Old world is still good. Better even, GW actually IMPROVED the game with their 5 rules update
>>96666831>Stop attacking Warhammer!!!>Leave GW alone!!!Lol, no. Get fukkt, corporate slave.
>>96672530I agree, it's my favourite game they currently support. But somehow, someway they will fuck it up, just like they did with 40k and 30k. I have no hope for its future.
>>96669542There's that thing called 'another player' which becomes vanishingly rarer the less current whatever you want to play is.
>>96672577Just play in TTS against AI opponent mirroring the moves on physical table. We've reached the level of technology where interaction with other people becomes completely unnecessary.
>Rogue Trader: Experimental, weirdo RPG-Wargame hybrid satirizing sci-fi pop culture at the time. Strange game but had soul>2nd Edition 40k: A very narrative and simulation based game where almost everything you could think of doing had actual written rules. GW still has yet to make another game with rules to this degree of random happenings and customization>3rd edition 40k: A simplified but still flavorful ruleset with a high degree of character customization with soulful expansions and scratchbuilding guides>4th edition 40k: A revised version of 3rd edition>5th edition 40k: Wargear lists completely gone, added true line of sight, shit wound allocation rules, no fun expansions or flavor, codex creep, matt ward lore, cruddaceslop, trying to get the vidya crowd from dawn of war's success, "re imagining" of half the factions in the game, tourneyfag crowd becoming more prevalent with the internet getting more popularwhen will people start realizing 5th edition was the start of the slop? I see it cited often as the best edition of 40k but I never understood why, is it really just dawn of war fags being nostalgic?
>>96672649Like 75% of the fun for me comes from interacting with an actual human bean
>>96672682So the game only accounts for 25% of your fun?
>>96665140Like, 9 or something>enter LGS>see Warhammer on shelves>too expensiveSomehow, even though I now make 60000x more than back then, GW have successfully managed to price me out.
>>96665419Replace everything you just said with 40gay specifically. TOW has none of these problems other than pricing.>inb4 lore gayificationWFRP maybe
>>96673290>TOW Yeah.. about that ...
>>96672699Correct
>>96673319Balloon posting is the new schizo posting
I've come to conclusion that wargaming and Warhammer are two distinct hobbies with some hobbyist overlap, just like role playing games and D&D 5E.
>>96673355its reasonable to say that. most wargamers start with 40k
>>96672500They're supposed to be objective markers I think. So bizarre.
>>96672509>>96672516thinking about this more, the image of what you are aiming at will also be shifted in a way that corrects for any refraction
>>96673355That's a pretty apt observation.
>>96665140This shit is warmachines fault.All the fucking mongoloids who left warmachine DEMANDED this fucking sick state of terrain... Competitive was the biggest mistake for warhammer
>>96673319"Sorry, I don't play against unpainted armies."Problem solved.
>>96673319very, very disrespectful
>>96673319>bag of shitpotle in the middle of the table>6 unpainted balloons in shot that would take the average beginner an hour max to put a passable paintjob onyou will never convince me tournaments are anything but utter cesspits that detract from the hobby just by existing
>>96665140What is with the recent influx of complete tourists who call it "Warhammer"?For the past 30 fucking years of my life no one has ever done that. It's always been "Warhammer 40k" or usually "40k" for short. No one ever said just "Warhammer" when they meant 40k. Now in just the last couple months I fucking see this shit EVERYWHERE.Are you all newfags? What the fuck is going on??
>>96669640We used to shoehorn old 2nd ed and Epic gear into our 3rd/4th ed games. The Shokk Attack Gun with the ability to stuff a terminators leg with snotlings or have them blind a tank driver so it runs over it's own infantry., The Squig Catapult and it's random movement buzzer squig swarms, The Hop Splat Gun and it's bouncing ammo. Madboys. Tinboyz. Tractor Cannons. the Big Stomp template. Good times.
>>96674554i imagine its so it shows up in the catalogue easier
>>96674581No I mean even just reading through this thread there are other posts doing it, and I'm seeing it all over Twitter too. It's like a trend over the whole internet but only started within the last few months.Nobody EVER fucking said "Warhammer" when referring to 40k, ever, for decades of my life I've been in this hobby. Now it's everywhere at once, it's bizarre as fuck. Did we get a sudden influx of newfags very recently? Like I know Space Marine 2 brought a lot of them in but that game has been out for over a year now.
>>96674554But that's the new shop name. It's all the tourists know.
>>96674554>>96674617Out of all the problems with 40k this is the one that tickles your taint?
>>96674617it's just newfags. we used to have warhammer fantasy and warhammer 40k so you'd specifically refer to 40k as 40k to avoid confusion. now we have age of smegma and warhammer 40k so to the newfag it's perfectly ok to just refer to 40k as warhammer because the main fantasy game for them is called age of smegma so this is not confusing at all to them.>It's like a trend over the whole internet but only started within the last few monthsmaybe james workstein issued branding advice to their top influencer golems and it filtered out from there. maybe it's the result of newfags finally outnumbering grogs after a decade or so since they rebranded to "warhammer" as the company name. probably doesn't matter, anyone referring to 40k as warhammer is going to be a zoomer and their opinion can be discounted because they've been buckbroken since birth
>>96674554Because I, OP, intended this thread to cover 40k, AoS, and TOW - thus "Warhammer" Dumb nigger
sooo.... why aren't nukes used ALL THE TIME in wh40k again?
>>96673319>greytiding fat fuck with bloatgut dressed like a 10 year old can't wait 2 hours to stuff his faceWhat a disgusting image. At least it's not AoS
>>96665140Five edition. I already didn't much like the Tau(despite enjoying Fire Warrior vydia), then comes the infamous grey knight codex and I just cringe something fierce.It sure helped that I was a bloody newbie who just barely got a couple of models and didn't have the same issues these >>96665288 fellas do.That said, Warhammer universe itself is too big to fail. I hate GW with all my guts, but I ain't gonna quit my hobby. I'll just fucking ignore it's rules, nulore, copy their models for a pittance and make my own shit. FUCK GW.
>>96665140I've been trying to branch out recently after just being sick to GW Made a lost rpg thread to see if anyone knows some interesting games I can get into that's not the ten we allways have threads about
>>96675817I feel the same way Anon.I recently purchased some old metal Witch Hunter models and I am introducing a buddy to 4e/3e.
>>96665140Disillusioned by late teens, totally had enough of GWs bullshite by early 20s.Still have nostalgia for a bunch of older stuff but GW themselves can fuck off.
>>96672681I agree, it went from custom Imperial Guard regiment that can be unique with special ruels and unique models, to mass of bodies you move up the board and have a few shot by a Commissar for good measure
>>96665140When my gaming group disbanded after highschool in 2003 and everyone moved away. That was the end of everything
>>96676249You are so lucky. What s great year to quit
>>96665140When they made the Emperor this asshole type guy even though the OG lore made a lot of unknown or open to interpretation. That and they made The Emperor look like a buffoon. The Tau are lame. The new princess marines and how after 10,000 all of a sudden the tech improves for the Imperium because "we need to advance the story and we're idiots GW."
>>96675337You will not be missed
>>96672681As a long time Chaosfag, I lamented my codex but celebrated the expansion of others. SM, IG, DE, Necrons specifically. We got suckered in by new stuff, but I liked the variety on the table. Had one friend SUFFER as a DE player and you'd think he won the lottery when his book hit.Maybe it's the fact that if it IS the first slop edition, it's nowhere near as bad and had more to work with. Kernels of fun in the turd GW dropped. At least we're not scurrying around MediaFire trying to collect shitty datasheet pdfs.
>>96675337>You will not be missedIvan and Chang have done great business with me ever since this announcement
>>96666992Why not play a new game?
>>96678223They have inflated expectations regarding the amount of secondary material a game needs to be "good" and making up anything on your own alienates you from the hollow online discussions we're all addicted to.
>>96678277Yeah, but that's stupid. I switched to Mantic a few years ago from GW, and yeah, it's not the behemoth 40K is but Deadzone is kino. Blood Bowl isn't actually as good as Dreadball either.
>>96673355TRUKEmost warhammerfags and D&Dfags will never ever play anything else and are essentially not part of their respective hobbies.
>>96665140Shit like this never happen when you play with the right persons at the right place. Blame the players, not the system
