Crippled Edition>Previous Thread>>96708010>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>WoD5 Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionHave you ever played/featured physically disabled characters in your games?
First for anal
Anal is gay even if the anus is 2cm away from a vagina.
>>96720673
>>96717286>The world had fallen...billions must join the huntOh, the world hasn’t fallen. Yet. But trust us, we’re working on it.
>>96720673>>96720716The Progenitors could fix them.Iteration X can make them better.
Apologies for being a tourist, but watched a YT series that turned out was set in WoD, which I basically know exists and nothing specific about, and I had to find out what the deal is with it's werewolves.Because holy crap I can't fully comprehend this interpretation, it was what you'd expect from a werewolf ramped up to eleven and then it pulled out magic and dimension doors. I just got a pdf of the book but still can I get a crash course on them?
>>96720824https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Werewolf:_The_Apocalypse
>>96720824>Werewolves, known as Garou in-setting, are half-spirit creatures created by Gaia (Mother Earth, the spirit of Earth, etc.) to serve as her warriors>As half-spirits, the Garou can interact with spirits, use magic taught by spirits, and can even enter the spirit realm, known as the Umbra>The Garou cannot turn people into werewolves through bites or scratches. They are technically a separate species. You have to born as one>A Garou can literally channel his anger, known as their Rage, duh, to use powers>The Garou tend to get rather irate oftenWhat else is there to know?
>>96720824Read the fucking books and ignore retard summaries from these threads.
>>96720824Well, it's a werewolf ramped up to eleven with magic and dimension doors.Okay, they're also hippy warriors opposing a warp god they have no chance of beating. And they're always angry.
>>96720956Disregard that I suck cocks
>>96720723You picked the wrong flavor of hot pocket, buddy.
>>96720824Pretty much they have all the powers the Internet made up for skinwalkers, and they're available in flavors like Greek and Viking.
>>96720824Okay. So. Intro to WoD. There are multiple different versions of each game line, and they aren't always iterative editions. For example, WtA5E isn't even the same setting as classic WtA, and is thematically inferior.
>>96720700I don’t care if it’s gay, I want to fuck that bonegnawer’s ass till she’s relevant to the thread question
I’m pretty sure everyone in this general would tank their humanity if they ever got Embraced. You all seem like major Sabbat.
>>96721211Not me. I’m built different.
>>96721211I'd expect to lose all my ground anyway to the addiction aspect and my only available guidance coming from the most transparently exploitative assholes possible. Sect don't matter, I can underfeed and not trust anybody until my personality dies or I'm murdered for political convenience anywhere.
>>96720903That in editions prior to W5 they also channeled "calm" spiritual energy to use some of their powers and didn't get reamed from being in the Umbra?>>96721029It's really only that one edition that isn't iterative. Because the directive was to make it more like Vampire in play style and mechanical detail.
>>96720824we have all the old books in the mega. Read and form your own conclusions nigga.
>>96721211bold of you to assume that i am not already on a path
>>96720824Read the books and be ready for a wildride. WTA has many awesome stuff you can enjoy.>>96721211My very first game was a Sabbat one, that tracks.
>>96721211good that i am a dark age fag anywaytime to bring back some of the less monstrous roads
>>96720734>Working with reality deviants NWO would like to have a word with you.
>>96721211Here's the thing: Sabbat and Technocracy are kino.
>>96720824I'd suggest starting with the 1e book since it lays out most of the main ideas of the setting in an easy to read way, plus better mood writing. Avoid 5e like the fucking plague. The old editions were about fighting an unwinnable battle, 5e is about giving up and organizing soup lines for your community. There's a new breed of WoD players that just want to pretend to run a coffee shop together and it's aggravating.
I have a question for the local VTM autists of /tg/, if the thirst of ages demand old Methuselah to feed on other kine. Would this not blood bind the Methuselah to that other kine?
>>96722158kindred, kine is the good old way of saying mortal and yes if they drink directly from the other vampire, never done a vaulderie or have any other powers related to that that's why the old nosferatu in the begining of the dav20 corebook tells the player character that being another vampire's cattle might not be the worst deal
>>96722180Does the three times feeding rule ever reset then? Or does this always end with the typically high generation kindred to have full influence over the elder one? Unless of course, the elder one overfeeds or destroys them before that happens.
Anyone got a link to a PDF of Tattered Facade for VtM V5?Starting a new chronicle next week, and I want to see the new discipline powers, and the new rules for ambitions and so on
>>96720700if it's gay to fuck a woman's ass then it's gay to get a blowjob or a handjob, because men also have mouths and handstypical technochratic psyop
>>96722254>Does the three times feeding rule ever reset then?blood bonds reset over time if you don't feed>If he does not feed from his domitor after a number of months equal to 12 - the thrall’s Willpower, the bond reduces by one step. >Or does this always end with the typically high generation kindred to have full influence over the elder one? there are also rituals that remove vitae's ability to blood bond and some books claim that not drinking directly from the body is enough to avoid the blood bond (i think it was in the independent ghoul book), but that's not really consistent with other books and fictionsbut a young vampires being able to blood bond elders is something that is called out in the v20 corebook>Such is the blood bond’s power that a mighty elder can be bound to a lowly neonate; in this respect, the blood of a Thirteenth-Generation fledgling is (pre- sumably) as strong as that of Caine himself.however a vampire can only have 1 level 3 bond at the time so the (rest of the) herd will likely just be level 1 or 2 blood bonds>A full blood bond, once formed, is nearly inviolate. Once bound, a thrall is under the sway of her regnant and her regnant only. She cannot be bound again byanother vampire unless the first blood bond wears away “naturally.” A vampire can experience lesser (one- and two-drink) bonds toward several individuals; indeed, many Kindred enjoy such bonds, as they create artificial passion in their dead heartsso not always but it's possible to have a vastly more powerful vampire blood bond to you... mind you having a 500+ year old low humanity elder obsessed with you might also not be the most healthy thing in the world even if they are in "love" with you
>>96722158>>96722254There is actually a pretty easy way to get your fill as a Methuselah, if you are low Humanity enough and don't want to bother with keeping a herd of vampires to rotate.Embrace a childe, feed him to the brim and feed on him. Then kill him.It's not like there is a lack of humans to turn nor is it hard to turn humans.
>>96722335>Traditions shitzo sees a shitzo post>Blames the Technocracy Tradfags still buckbroken and seething?
>>96721211>I’m pretty sure everyone in this general would tank their humanity if they ever got Embraced.Why would you expect something else from a bunch of weirdos with shit social skills?
>>96722270I think newvola or the share thread still have it.
What are your least favorite yet still canon takes on your favorite clan/tribe/etc? Gangrel being nature-lovers that all live in the woods is stupid as shit.
>>96720673>Have you ever played/featured physically disabled characters in your games?Yes, I like everyone and their mother have used the Nosferatu in my games. Psychosomatic Malkavians are also a staple in my games.
>>96722743>What are your least favorite yet still canon takes on your favorite clan/tribe/etc?The Glass Walkers of all tribes being shit with people. I get that being a woof halfs your IQ but damn, the guys are 80% Hommid, Persuasion is right there!
>>96722743the very silly malkavian jester
>>96722743That’s my opinion as well. I wouldn’t mind if Gangrel stood out from other clans because of Protean and because they can’t stand the stench of civilization. Just as most vampires prefer urban environments not by nature but due to convenience, Gangrel preferring the wilds due to the convenience of hiding their preferred Discipline and pridefully refusing to accept how vulnerable that makes them would make for better fluff. Established lore gets close with their clan choosing to leave the Camarilla, but doesn't close the deal.
>>96722743Kiasyd. Hang on, I summed it up in the Vampire Monster Manual.>Weird freaky changeling vampire things. There really isn’t much to say about these guys beyond that; they like to read and collect lore, but take no active role in the Sabbat (to which mostly belong) or the Camarilla (to which some “defect”). Really, they’re probably more accurately called Autarkis. To me the strangest part of this clan is the fact that despite standing seven feet tall, having glowing skin, and utterly alien eyes, they have no mechanical demerit to their Appearance. This implies to me that White Wolf honestly thought that people who looked like that would be “normal” enough to pass through average society largely uncommented upon, to which I have to ask, who the Hell were the White Wolf employees hanging out with on a nightly basis?Mostly I just don't know what to DO with these guys. Especially their Sabbat loyalty. I just don't *get* them.
>>96721211As I get older I find myself wanting to play more morally good characters. Hell last night i sat with a homeless guy in my car because it was 56°F outside, dude had on a just a t-shirt jeans and shoes, and the person who said theyd pick him up to take him to the homeless shelter was running on deadbeat nigger time.
99% of this thread are secondaries that don't actually read shit
>>96722828there is not much to get i am afraid. The one time a kyasid character showed up in the books pretty much sums up their intended role i thinkthey are meant to be reclusive npcs that sabbat players go to learn weird sometimes crossover related lore. That's it
>>96722862No shit
>>96720716>cripplewolf>when 'wheelwolf' was right therebaka
>Get home from work>New woof htp videoFucking ace lads
>>96723260For patrons, I guess? I don't see anything new on YT.
>>96723357https://youtu.be/NcuV2WW2fOs
>>96721029>>96721876Duly noted. I think the book I've been reading is the Revised Edition.
what would be a good path of enlightenment for kolduns who are either old clan or just not all that interested in vicissitude and metamorphosis?
>>96723362BY AZURABY AZURABY AZURA
>>96720716Would a crippled werewolf actually be un-crippled in Crinos form at least?
>>96723439A crippled werewolf can’t exist unless some Bane bullshit gets in the way of their healing factor.
>>96720723I get a feeling a lot of Mage players just overlooked the Nephandi and present the entire thing as Traditions vs Technocracy.
>>96723439>>96723462could be a metis in which no it does not get healed
>>96723466because they're straight up fucking evil. they're not the sabbat from vampire where you can have some nuance, for example.
>>96722743Super-hacker nosferatu
>>96723362Aha, thank you!
>>96723466Because the nephandi are so dog shit no one wants to remember them.
Are there mortal rules for the megalomania derangement?
>>96720012I think it's your lack of socialization, anon. Many people outside the internet doesn't like nWoD/CofD that much.
>>96720734There's a concept in Glasswalkers Tribebook which is a crippled Metis who got lots of tech bullshit on him and now he can walk again.
>>96723708I would argue a lot of people simply never gave it a fair shake.
>>96720662>Your ancestors were out in the forests and on mountains and seas killing monsters, not fucking them.counterpoint, heracles fucked a snake-woman and she birthed the scythians. checkmate
>>96723362Grimal is a vampire. Calling it here.
>>96723788Grimal was dominated, Elise is the ghoul who had enough vitae to dominate Grimal.
>people unironically thinking they're gonna get a proper episode with actual revelations instead of Big D doing another 50 minute lore dumplollmaoeven
>>96723788elise is a lasombra ghoul thoughbeit…
>>96723788Grimal is a Redcap
>>96723878Grimal is blue you retard
>>96723859>He is not awaresad
>>96718518Boy, this aged badly.
>>96723968Incorrect.
Question for Werewolf fans, all three of you. Do you prefer Apocalypse or Forsaken? Why?
>>96723996Both are good.
Bone Gnawer drawfag here. Got another wolf I made a few weeks back named Emelia. Wanted to make a proper shadowlord fancy wolf who gave off vampire flags by being pale, red eyed, etc.She's from a winemaking family and is an anomaly among garou because she got turned through a bite when she was a teenager. Its up for debate if the bite actually did it, or if she was destined to be garou from the beginning, but it's something she's been trying to replicate with bloody and tragic results. Doesn't stop her from having a lot of wealth and power though.
>>96724063>rape
>>96724063Some more pics including her wolf form. Wanted to go for a thinner look for her since, while she is still diplomacy focused like the bone gnawer, she's more the type to socially dominate you instead of try to be your buddy.
>>96724081>rape twice
>>96724063>Get bitten by werewolf>Trauma response forces you into your first changeAh, so that's why the myth exists. A bunch of werewolves mauling their kids, trying to get them to change early.
>>96723996Eco terrorists or spirit cops. You decide.
>>96724092Well, it IS a thing in WtA that shifters can turn other people into shifters. But only Corax and Yeren really do it as far as I know.
>>96723466BAZONGAS
>>96724063>>96724081Amazing, anon. I love it!
>>96724110Garou can't turn others, that much is true. And there's no "If a crow bites you you'll turn into one" legend as far as I know.I mean, think about it. We've got the rat plague, but no myth. But there's always that old tale about eating seeds that grow in your stomach. I wonder why there isn't a Wyld shifter group based on plant-man things. >If kinfolk from the plant-shifters eat the right seed, they experience their first change.
>>96724092>>96724110>>96724136Yeah the crux is that her family was human, even her father was a crazed wolf hunter that got obsessed with killing them the moment he realized they existed. Emelia herself was the one who pulled a rifle on him once he got zealous enough to burn their whole winery estate just to corner one. The wolves retaliated and slaughtered them, but she lived.The big theory among her tribe is that her family were all unknowing kinfolk, wolf blood may run thin but it runs all the same, and she just so happened to win the garou lottery instead of being killed like the rest of them. Emelia is certain the bite did it though, but she's an older woman and she's already tried to do the same with lovers with poor results. Still trying to discover the truth though, thinking a ritual might be a part of it.
>mfw remembering there are no kinfolk in w5
>>96724110New business strategy >Kidnap shifter >Force it to turn some randoms >Cut them up and turn them into magical dick pills or something >Profit
>>96724145Women from Dark Romance fandom cry blood for now they can't have their Garou x Kinfolk romance storylines.
>>96724156You could get a Yeren to do this consensually but he'll fuck you over in the long run
>>96723462Apocalypse has the battle scar system for permanent injuries.In Forsaken, they're supposed to regenerate everything, and they regenerate their senses even if they lost them before the First Change or never had it to begin with, but we still have some mentions of blind or maimed werewolves.
>>96724145Its funny since anyone I've seen run W5 still adds them anyway.I like to imagine the whole 'gaia chooses who becomes garou' thing in W5 is just a biproduct of wolves fucking so much, then those resulting humans having families of their own, has spread wolf blood wide through generations to the point where just about anyone could be a hidden garou time bomb.
>>96724168>getting fucked by an apeBetter go to Brazil then.
>>96724156Syndicate or Pentex?
>>96724168>>96724193
>>96724145To be fair Kinfolk were basically just "Werewolves need a sort-of Ghoul equivalent" that could be played in just as twisted power dynamic.
>>96724211I'd be down for some hot ass werewolf booty call
>>96724211>>96724145The big shift is really just that humans are no longer obligated to help garou, but either through connections to existing garou (like a son going wolf so his family decides to help him) or through stumbling into it (turns out your new boss/girlfriend/best friend is a werewolf but they are pretty chill and not gonna lie you agree with their motivations) they get pulled into their lives.So without that obligation, and during the era of easy communication, the old ways of rounding kinfolk up and some tribes effectively making them be like fuck cattle don't work that well. Of course some can still try to form a relationship by forcing you there and threatening to kill you if you try to run away, but that is more likely to sow resentment than loyalty, since kinfolk don't have that 'I have to do this for the sake of gaia' pull they'd have in older editions.
>>96724211What the fuck do the other lines get?
>>96724145It's crazy how much they ruined werewolf to make it more PC. The new lore is as dogshit as when clans were removed from vampires in cod, just utter shit
>>96724278Vamps: GhoulsWoofs: KinfolkChangelings: KinainMage: Sorcerer-Apprentices Mummy: Cult of Osiris membersDemon: ThrallsWraith: Lmao
>>96720734>>96723727If only the Cyberdogs were still around . . .
>>96724276>Of course some can still try to form a relationship by forcing you there and threatening to kill you if you try to run awaySounds like a great way to turn people from a potential ally to genocidal hunter.
>>96724303Wraiths' is the loved ones they can torment lmao
>>96724185>to the point where just about anyone could be a hidden garou time bomb.Which is how it should be. Gaia fights the Wyrm through the tools of nature: fucking and procreation and population bloodlines.Lycanthropy should be Gaia's global autoimmune response to infection, with humans as the blood cells and garou as the white cells.
>>96723996Apocalypse for playing GarouForsaken for playing Pure
>>96724278white wolf had a entire year of the ally event about minor splats back then>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Year_of_the_Allyctd got kinainwraith got mediumsand mage got a reprint of Ascension's Right Hand the super horny book that tells them that all splats are minor splats for them and that sorcerer belong to the mage splat (by the same goat fucker who made m20 by the way)
>>96724206Cheiron Group actually
>>96724324Interesting. I had no idea Dark Ages Vampire got a specific one as well.
Kinfolk were a super weird and unique thing in Werewolf that made them feel different from humans and created all sorts of roleplaying/storytelling opportunities. It was dumb to get rid of it just because it made some losers uncomfortable Not all tribes of garou have to be good by human standard, their weird half-spirit murder things
>>96724377>It was dumb to get rid of it just because it made some losers uncomfortableThis describe modern WoD perfectly. I'm just dreading M5 if it ever actually gets finalized.
>>96724357yeah Dark Ages Vampire was internally handled as if it was a wholly seperate gameline from vtm by white wolf when it came to publishing and sales so it also got a entry in Year of the Reckoning (cainite heresy), Year of Revelations (house of tremere), Year of the Scarab (veil of night), Year of the Damned (dark age inqusitor yes i know not a vampire book technically)
>>96724394It would have been fine if they had been like we're changing some names to better reflect modern sensibilities. I think it's irrelevant but who cares. Butchering the lore is different
Missed the TQ last thread but I think old clan tzimeze would be either those orange and black things or strawberry candies that only old people have
>>96724290>clans were removed from vampires in codNigger, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>96724451I didn't explain myself fully because I was on my phone. What I mean is removing the history of the clans and being descended from an antediluvian with all sorts of political intrigue and metaplot stuff. It's one of the most popular things about vtm by far
>>96724324HtP just named Pascal as a Medium. Interesting co-inky-dink. Does that mean we'll be getting Wraith lore injected into the Parenting?
>>96724472>phonepostingKill yourself.>What I mean is removing the history of the clans and being descended from an antediluvian with all sorts of political intrigue and metaplot stuff.>It's one of the most popular things about vtm by farNobody has ever played Vampire for the metaplot. Either you're a refugee from Bizarro World or you're full of shit.
>>96724063Nice, the aristocratic air on her made me thing of Silverfangs first but Shadow Lords also fitting, since they also do have nobles in their lineage.Also, would.
>>96723996Personally, I prefer Forsaken, but apoc has some good ideas worth borrowing/adapting.
>>96723996hard to say because w5 kinda fucked over apocalypse. garou nation collapsing basically took out the global angle, for example.
>>96724504>Nobody has ever played Vampire for the metaplot.uh yeah they did retard, because the system is ass, and the lack of metaplot is why VtR was never big
>>96724504WW never would have pushed the metaplot so much if people didn't care for it. And yet, my anecdotal experience has always been with games taken events in places STs were familiar with and would flesh out on their own. Three moved to Requiem in a move that makes perfect sense in hindsight.
>>96724303Wraiths get Mediuns. There's a whole supplement about them.
>>96724500i don't follow htp actively but wasn't there already a wraith in the 99 cent store?
MATILA IS A RED TALONHOLY SHIT
>>96724666You're too right, Satan. These guys are FUCKED.
>>96724568>WW never would have pushed the metaplot so much if people didn't care for it.I don't have a dog in this race, but I have a quibble with this statement. Companies can misread the room or even do actively do something unpopular, because they are not unthinking thralls to profit motive.
>>96724710and I would agree but not for such an extended period of time. they were also pumping those books out so I assume they were selling.
Kind of surprised Telltale never did anything with WoD/CofD
>>96724780they pretty much missed each other timeline wise
>>96724568>>96724710>>96724723I was there in there in the 1990s and the lore, deep lore, metaplot and named NPCs were THE reasons people played Vampire, Werewolf and Mage. Nobody played for the elegance of the mechanics. It was all plots, double-plots, who backstabbed who, who got killed by whom, etc. etc. etc. Chronicles failed because it was too dry and lifeless and lacking in metaplot.
>>96724472This is just a case of people comparing every Masquerade book with only the Requiem core. All this history in Masquerade is not in the corebook, only the splatbooks, Requiem has those too.
>>96724794Lemme guess, and your dad works at Nintendo too.
>>96724780CCP wasn't interested in licensing off the IP to people in the mid to late 2000s, and Telltale was more interested in more well-known IP by the time Paradox got ahold of the IP
>>96723859Oh fuck, you were right. Still a great lore dump! Way more interesting than reading W5.
>>96724806people than thought all that stuff in requiem sourcebooks HAD to be in the game even though the entire setup of requiem was modular. hell, not even all the covenants have to exist in your game if you don't feel like it.
>>96724723>but not for such an extended period of time.The metaplot only became a big focal thing in Revised, I wouldn't call that a long period of time. Not to mention they did have several gamelines that came out scattershot right before ToJ and the nWoD pseudo-reboot. They put out books before that didn't do terribly well, though I could be led to believe there were "Metaplot Whale" type players that bought a lot of books relative to their portion of the fanbase.
>>96723859You know, you do have something of a point, even if you're shitposting. There isn't enough well-intentioned criticism of HtP, it's either toxic positivity from fans or "ugh get these fucking memelord tourists away go back to 40k". But as someone who has been enjoying the series for a while, I'm growing increasingly concerned that they are making some severe missteps as of late. The biggest of which is scope and scale creep. When the story started, it was simple. One hunter cell and a group of low-level Sabbat they were fighting, all but one of whom they killed. There were hints at where things would go, but it was kept to manageable level. Then they started introducing additional minor and supporting characters in the audiologs, which was again fine because those mostly served as "b-plot" and most of the characters were not necessarily needed to appear again. However, by the time we reached the Arcanum whodunnit, we practically double the number of important characters in a single episode. Then things get really messy. There are now werewolves (who necessitate a pack, at least a few more characters) to factor in, but there's probably still a ghoul on the loose, that or Kevin just had shit intel. And now we're calling in reinforcements? Which while a smart move when dealing with werewolves, is going to add even more characters to manage. Not to mention additional plotlines like Kevin and Guy's pentex run in. In a series with a more regular and quicker upload schedule, this would be less concerning, but this is not the case. Every new character and plotline further slows the pace while providing diminishing returns and creating new points of failure or difficulty in the plot. What's made worse is that unlike the Sabbat pack, very few if any of these new characters have been killed off or otherwise removed from the story, indicating a worrying trend that the issue will continue to compound. It's gotten very messy.
>>96724063>>96724081>>96724142>>96724185TOTAL SHADOW LORD LOVE <3
>yfw 2 hours of PENIS PENIS WEREWOLF PENIS lore
>>96725281But enough about Burgerkrieg.
>>96725117Expect even more when Door goes to O'Tolleys
KRONIK DID NOTHING WRONG#RULEBRITANNIA
>>96723996Apocalypse. I haven't read anything from Forsaken that really pulls me in. WtA just has a more intricate setting, there's a lot going on and it's cool to play the big damn hero who's actually making everything worse. In Forsaken you and 3-5 other people have to make sure bad spirits don't act up? There's just not enough there to make me care.
The other major growing problem is Big D, who is more mystery box and plot device than actual character. He has frankly baffling knowledge of the oWoD lore (made more vexxing by the series' tendency to inject random V5-isms without much thought) that goes beyond what even occultist members of the supernatural themselves would know. He has occasional blindspots, like not knowing what the vaulderie was, but despite this he knows far more than he has any right to. Him dropping "The Ageless Sons of Kun" may be the worst offender, and this means D knows not only about Rokea, and that they don't age, but he knows what they call themselves, down to their own term for the Wyld. D also looks younger than one of his children, something nobody has commented on, and survived close combat with a werewolf without any real injury. This understandably but annoyingly has led to fan speculation that he is every single flavor of human-passing supernatural. So how exactly does this incredible being that would probably be booted from most tables if proposed as a PC idea not immediately solve the plot? Well, that's where things get even messier. Big D's highly variable competency is truly impressive. Sandbagging against Kevin in the tunnels so the younger hunters can learn was fine. However, he was genuinely and rightfully scared of diablerist Pyotr but then he makes a rookie mistake, which gets him taken out immediately. In the Arcanum, he didn't seem to take the ghoul very seriously as a threat and mostly fucked with Remold the entire time. Once the threat was made real with Fatigue's death, he took things more seriously, but then our Occult 6+ expert somehow didn't figure out there was a werewolf until it transformed in front of him. Despite his impressive physical display, he completely failed and his son was kidnapped in front of him. It's thus fairly unsurprising that "Big D is a Fraud" has been bandied about here and there.
>>96723859Hey any lore dump that calls out Werewolves for being retards that made all their own problems is good story to me.
>>96724185I mean, the Garou are as old as humanity, they traveled with them everywhere they went, how is it a stretch that everyone has at least one Garou ancestor since we know that everyone shares at least one human ancestor anyway.
>>96725312Door goes to O'Tolleys should've been a quick humorous interlude between episodes 4 and 5. Now so much has happened that it's like pulling teeth watching as the most competent Hunter in the cell is blissfully unaware of the rank bullshit happening while he's getting his kid a big mac.
What's the advantage of Dark Age over a modern setting? Is it just not being restricted by the Masquerade?
>>96725117>>96725312I don’t know why Patreon bucks cause content creators to go overboard with this shit. Only retards who soiface at the Thanos Snap or clapped when they saw Riker in the Captain’s Chair care about grand-scale world-ending threats. One of the reasons VTMB is a cult classic is specifically because it’s not apocalyptic and actively mocks the kind of mouth-breathers who think they’re penning The Silmarillion of niche fiction when given the pilot’s controls.It’s one of many reasons I dropped Tamers12345 when the money started pouring in for him, and why I noped out of Jontron when he got mad ad money, and many other creators for similar reasons.Soon, I might just abandon HtP. TTS having a massive ensemble makes sense because of the sheer scale of the setting. Hunter doesn’t, or rather shouldn’t.
>>96725331CofDfags will try to convince you that there's more to Forsaken than that and they're right, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of us don't find the introductory premise of Forsaken compelling enough to learn more.The same can be said of Apocalypse since it turns off a lot of people with its premise, but the truth is that neither of these games have a core that's even a tenth as compelling as Masquerade.
He's the key to all this
>>96725398>Is it just not being restricted by the Masquerade?As restricted* running around going bleh bleh is still a really bad idea. But you don't need to be as paranoid about it. There's that, some people really like pathfaggotry being more in-depth than Sabbat sicko paths for assholes (even if this has the unintended consequence of Humanity feeling redundant when Road of Kings and Road of Heaven do a better job at handling conventional medieval morality.) Or they like the lack of large sect politics, though imo this just makes Dark Ages rely more on clan to give factions their identity, which can get stale pretty quick. I prefer the sect-clan two axis of allegiance.
>>96725354>Gaia>Pentex>Masquerade>The Wyrm>Black Spiral Dancers>SUDDENLY 2ND INQUISITION, MOTHERFUCKERSThe whole show is a mystery meatloaf of everything ever associated with WoD/NWod/CofD/WoD5 in a combination of podcast+radio show+Flash animation. What else are you gonna expect, a clear coherent short novella storyline? Being a mess is partly why people love it.
>>96725365>everyone has at least one Garou ancestorWe humans really were le monsters all along...
>>96725354This is all true.>>96725360It shouldn’t take 2 1/2 hours to make that point.>>96725383It should’ve been a recreation of the diner scene in Pulp Fiction, if that scene instead took place in Reservoir Dogs. Now it’s going to be a bloated mess unless someone in the writing room realizes they’re all masturbating instead of RPing.
>>96725360>any lore dump that states the obvious premise that the entire setting is built around is good story to meWould you clap if you were given a lore dump about how vampires struggle to cling to their humanity?
>>96723466The issue with Nephandi is twofold. First, they are comically evil. They are ontologically irredeemable monsters that want to unmake reality either because they think it deserves oblivion or so that it descends into some metaphysical hell and they become true demons. There can be a place for that , but it gets old fast if not done extremely well. Yeah, you want us fools that believe in goodness to just die. We get it. The other issue is that to do Nephandi well you have to get darker than most people are comfortable with. Nephandi are *really* bad. They're not like a mobster who will shoot you for money but isn't looking to do it. They're not the Technocracy who actually does nominally want what they think is "best." They're like Chaos in Warhammer 40k, they seek to do the most unimaginably fucked up shit just because it's funny. This gets uncomfortable fast. You see the same thing with the better D&D sourcebooks about Evil with a capital E like The Book of Vile Darkness. Horny White Wolf players aren't a good fit for that.
>>96725468>obvious premiseYou would think so but the sheer amount of retards that just say >oh the werewolves are the good guys of the setting!is far too large
>>96725441This isn’t a mess. This is Bad Robot levels of stupidity being touted as deep understanding when the writers are doing the equivalent of Matt McMuscles, except using 1d4chan instead of the White Wolf wiki.
>>96725482So HtP is for retards, got it.
>>96725497All media has to be, they're the largedt audience.
>>96725441>NWod/CofDWhat nWoD/CofD stuff has made it into HtP? As far as I can tell it's just oWoD with the occasional WoD5-ism thrown in so daddy Paradox doesn't cancel them (they didn't even get the SI timeline right, despite including that lore abortion). Also, it started completely coherent and relatively tightly written. The problem it's taken on now is it won't swallow its existing plot points before biting off a new one. It's biting off more than it can chew. I'm not against including multiple splats, it'd be boring if it was all vampires all the way down. But for fuck's sake we haven't resolved anything since Pyotr got dusted. This is how you get a story that becomes impossible to finish.
>>96725510You win this round, but if you win a second time I will rape you as vengeance for my public humiliation.
>All of those records just to get "Coalition's funded by vampires and the werewolves are in the only forest in Norfolk who could have seen that one coming."I'm surprised Big D didn't freak out about Matilda being a Red Talon. And that Skin Dancing is possible at all! And that they only need one werewolf pelt and not in perfect condition and marred by silver and whatnot.
>>96725519This video made me lose interest when “Second Inquisition” was used casually by D to explain the situation with the Coalition.
>>96725545He only knows about the Black Furies, judging by his opening statement declaring his knowledge of werewolves is not through academics, but experience. Red Talons means nothing to him beyond an anecdote.
>>96725417>I don’t know why Patreon bucks cause content creators to go overboard with this shit.Patreon and similar monetization platforms create a perverse reward structure. You're financially incentivized to listen to your most dedicated fans, who provide you with the most amount of stable money, regardless of if you can keep to a regular schedule. Once you have a large enough following, you cater to your existing Patrons at the expense of everything else, and worse still, the tendency to have patron-filled discords creates an echo chamber where you are receiving constant praise and not even any constructive criticism. I'd also say that to be fair, this threat isn't world ending. They're in moderately backwater rural England. The threat is very local, but they're still screwing up the scope and scale. They just don't have the upload schedule to properly execute the "everything is popping off all at once" thing they're going for.
>>96725443>you are a vampire and uhhh you suckYou're right, I'm hooked.
>>96725581A small-scale setting in Norfolk wouldn’t include GAS THE HUMANS RACE WAR NOW wolf tribe AND Pentex AND try to get a Tremere to experience Golconda AND why am I even bothering to complain, not only do you understand my position regardless of whether or not you agree, it’s not like my bitching is going to change anything.
>>96725545>Coalition's funded by vampires>>96725548>“Second Inquisition” was used casually by D to explain the situation with the Coalition.I haven't had the time to watch the new upload yet, but the hell kind of sense does this make? Why use "second inquisition" several years too early if it's just the oWoD (and to be fair vigil as well) status quo of "Powerful vampires, probably the Ventrue and friends manipulate the big hunter groups into killing their enemies without outright controlling them because it would backfire"?>>96725607I'm trying to remain constructive with my criticism on the off chance it will change something. Maybe someone involved hasn't forgotten their 1d4chan roots and will take it to heart.
I think it's been overstated how bloated Hunter: The Parenting is, we have the tremere, werewolves, and coalition, and we've already established that the coalition is being manipulated by pentex who are also in league with the tremere regent, that's not actually a lot of moving parts. scale is a totally different question
>>96725486>This is Bad Robot levels of stupidity being touted as deep understandingNo it's lore dumps strung together with loose plotlines and toilet humor. That's literally what Emperor TTS was. That's what this is. It's a guide to WoD lore for autists that need constant stimulation. How do you not pick up on that?
>>96725662>coalition is being manipulated by pentexUnironically would make more sense if the technocracy was doing that
>>96725668Because they are autists addicted to WoD lore who need constant stimulation.
>>96725668Show me the TTS episode that lasted 2 1/2 hours to only say “Dark Angels are paranoid retards”. Or the one that only “Inquisition bad”. Or the one that only said “The Emperor is a hypocrite—“ OH WAIT they did do that one only it took 1 1/2 hours and almost every minute of it was devoted to that fact instead of wasting everyone’s time reading from a wiki page.
>>96725721...dude, did you not notice how every episode of TTS got longer and longer? If GW didn't step in, a 3 hour dialogue on why the Space Wolves are Space Marines was going to be inevitable.
>>96725744Cut the sarcasm and type out what you really want to express instead of making petulant nebulous questions hoping that I’ll be able to pierce the veil of your feminine mind.
>>96725744>already forgot the “space wolves are uninspired” segmentowari da…
>>96725662You might have a point if it didn't take the better part of a year to just establish that. My main point has been that their upload schedule is not conducive to the fast in-universe pace the story is unfolding at. And consider, all of this was established right after the first tutorial hunt. Let's say you were playing in a game where you had a first hunt against a handful of Sabbat fuckheads, and then in the next 2-3 sessions the ST throws over a dozen important NPCs at you and establishes several important antagonist factions at once. Lastly, it isn't just the major factions at play that causes the bloat. It's that + character bloat + plotline bloat. Right now we have, off the top of my head, the following unresolved plots.>Marckus has been kidnapped by Werewolves>There may or may not still be a ghoul on the loose>Pentex is in league with the Tremere Regent>The Coalition is compromised>Door and Boy are still unaware of everything that went down>What's going on in the 99P store?>What's with all the tunnels crisscrossing the county?And that's ignoring character plots like the D-Marckus tension. It's a lot for people who upload as infrequently as they to digest, especially since they haven't made any gestures to closing any of them.
Rate my idea for my new mage characterSociety of Ether mage who used to be part of the Technocracy. He left because he is a petty bitch and got pissed off at the Technocracy not liking some insane idea he had about electric currents and information, so he fucked off to do his own thing with the Traditions (this still happens.) He doesn't have a steampunk aesthetic and kind of hates all the less straitlaced mages he meets because he sees them as cringe. So he will like build a death ray but make it as boring as possible (he knows this annoys other Etherites and thinks it's funny)
>>96725763Okay. You're an autistic midwit thinking that calling out the obvious and saying that's bad somehow makes you intelligent. You're waiting for someone to agree with you and compliment you. It's never going to happen. Save yourself the ache.>>96725772I think we both know they wouldn't have just one episode...
HE'S STILL ON FRAUD WATCH
>>96725782Sounds more like an Orphan, if he doesn't believe any of the stuff Etherites do.
>>96725811Lots of people who don't perfectly align with a tradition join it because being an orphan kind of sucks. That stuff is in there so you can run a game like that if you want but it's not really intended
>>96725788Thank you, at least now we both know we can’t have any real discussion instead of you continuing to bait me for a response. I hope your day gets better, and God bless.
>>96725843>>96725811Also forgot to add that Etherites don't all do the Steampunk thing. A lot of them defected from the Technocracy in more recent years or just don't like it. If you think of any mad scientist from fiction then you could probably imagine them as an Etherite
>>96725697I get the feeling they're not going to lean too heavily on Mage stuff since they've already got the Norfolk Wizard Game going
>>96725843>>96725852I'm aware, the problem is that anon's character seems to dislike Etherites in general. Someone petty enough to leave the Technocracy is probably going to be petty enough to leave the Traditions too.
>>96725885yes, God willing NWG will keep Speaker D's magefaggotry at bay.
>>96725486What the hell is a Bad Robot and how is it relevant to the current conversation?
>>96723466Because the Nephandi aren't a valid choice if you have a functioning prefrontal cortex
>>96725917Google is your friend, baby boy.
>>96725979Google killed my family.
>>96725917Copied from wikipediaBad Robotis an American film and televisionproduction companyfounded on May 27, 1999, and led by Katie McGrath andJ. J. Abramsas Co-CEO. Under itsBad Robot Productionsdivision, the company is responsible for thetelevision seriesAlias,Lost,Fringe,Person of Interest,Revolution,andWestworldalongside the feature-length filmsCloverfield,Star Trek,Super 8,Star Trek Into Darkness,Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol,Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation,Star WarsEpisodesVIIandIX,10 Cloverfield Lane,Star Trek Beyond,The Cloverfield Paradox,Mission: Impossible – Fallout,andOverlord.
>>96725480Maybe I haven't read enough about them, but I haven't found anything interesting about them. Not even a good flavor of evil that someone else already does better.
>>96725962And yet one of the ToJ scenarios was Nephandi outsmarted everyone and turned the universe into a hell-dimension
nWoD question: Let’s say you’re an Uratha who wants to be around your human family and raise your kids and interact with regular mortals without worrying about wolf autism or uncontrollable tard rages causing problems. Let’s also say you’re best buddies with a mage who’s sympathetic to your problems and wants to help. Can the mage create a magic item that you can wear to suppress your werewolfiness? If yes, what arcana does he need to do this?
>>96726160No, but you could probably cheat on your wife with the mage pretty easily.
>>96726160Spirit or (Mind + Prime) depending how you flavor it. You could just give the a Brand containing a spirit of serenity and he should be fine.
>>96726152That's stupid and don't take it as valid
>>96723859I genuinely, sincerely like the audio logs and I've probably re-watched (re-listened?) to them more than I did to the actual episodes.That being said >>96725117 is absolutely right, "scope and scale creep" is a good summation.The whole werewolf thing, while kinda neat, means we have essentially an arc's worth of detour before we get back to the "main" storyline, which is ghoul infiltrator.Shit, it's even TWO storylines since the coalition are apparently going to be even MORE characters now (unless they're not-Vect and not-Russ like they were in the Kevin/Chapman audiolog, and even then)Oh shit, if they switch back to another franchise (like their half-life thing or god forbid something new) it will take EVEN LONGER for the main vampire storyline to progress.AND I fucking HATE how it's animated in the latest actual episode, animate LESS.AND STOP THE FUCKING FACE MOCAP, they used to use it sparingly and exclusively for comedy because it was so garbage.They really did bite off more than they could chew and they keep finding ways to take another bite
Where are the Etherite babes at?
>>96726160Bro, just stay calm?
>>96726222Would trying to surpress a Uratha's nature with a spirit not backfire?
>>96726340They only accept men, the name change was just optics.
>>96726340Right here
Which would you guys recommend for someone who likes fluff more than crunch?>Werewolf 1e>2e>Revised>W20Also, did they change/sanitize a lot in later editions or did it stay pretty much the same?
>>96726491Werewolf sucks and only faggots like it
>>96726491There aren't huge changes between editions, so I wouldn't say you should feel the need to only read the stuff from one.
>>96724063>my wine aunt can beat your wine aunt>hell she can beat your whole family
>>96726491If you're just a secondary reading for lore, W20.If you're actually looking for a game to play but don't have a group, W20. Finding a group recruiting for any of the other systems is next to impossible.If you have a group waiting for you to suggest a game to them who will happily play whatever you suggest, 2e.
>>96724063>but it's something she's been trying to replicate with bloody and tragic resultsGarou try not to be retarded challenge: impossible
>>96726715I thought it did well to give her a potential villain arc, honestly. A once human woman who wants to spread her gift as it was spread to her, who made foolish and naive mistakes when she was younger in her attempts, but now is trying to find more ritualistic or darker means to pull it off now that she is middle aged. Having a way to reliably mass produce garou would be a game changer for the war, and she's selfish enough to want to accomplish that by any means necessaryAlso she's a good singer, lounger singer werewolves are fun
>>96726760Sounds good but she better keep it a secret, I doubt the powers that be would like to have even more enemies to deal with.
>>96726779oh obviously yeah, one of those secret plots she's doing while she's out and about buying up land and choking out corporations that had been growing complacent in the local run down company town her game takes place in. She's a resource 4 character and I sure as hell plan to play her like one with her plans.With that kind of money in a small town, you could do a lot to take control of the town and make the population love you for it. She could use her vast wealth to buy up struggling companies and shops but keep them under control of the mom and pops who owned those stores, make sure everyone gets a living wage and is happy, help lobby to lower housing cost and subsidize farmers, provide healthcare, get local politicians in her pocket, everything she can do in order to make people trust her and see her as a pillar of the community and someone who cares about their way of life. All so that, if she had the town's doctors be instructed to provide, say, free vaccines for the population, they wouldn't protest it and in fact welcome it.
Rewatched the Howling last night and goddamn it's crazy how much of WtA's lore comes from that film. The doctor, the main antagonist, was the smartest werewolf in the room and had more or less made an entire colony of wolves that would spread out and adapt to modern society. They had a cattle rancher on their side so meat was always available, they had werewolves among the local police so they could keep things quiet, they were avid hunters, and the majority of the colony was very normal and welcoming on the surface, and once new members were turned, they'd be part of the colony's welcome wagon as well.His plan had been working amazingly well because everyone who changed would be all in for the idea once indoctrinated, but all it took was three retard werewolf siblings and an elder who wanted to kill himself anyway going NO WE GOTTA DO THE OLD WAYS AND KILL ALL HUMANS to completely fuck that plan up. It's a Child of Gaia/Glass Walker making a great plan and Red Talons/Gets shitting on it as usual.
>>96726760>>96726953>Shadow Lord>White hairHmmm…
>>96727109She's albino
>>96727107Red Talons, may Gaia forgive me, were right.
Never ask a Red Talon bitch what species her bf is
>>96727139>>96727107>Be the Doctor from the Howling>Children of Gaia coded character, you know how to get humans to trust you>Have a great thing going, gradually increasing the werewolf population and gaining control of the local police, cattle industry, a huge plot of land, a lot of privacy, and with your influence you can guide people to the colony and have them turned and brought to your cause.>Get the red talon coded retard siblings: One is a goddamn serial killer who rapes and eats his victims, one is a nympho who will turn those that don't sleep with her immediately, and the last is a creep who looks like he fucks skunk carcasses.>These three constantly make trouble and are the only reason anyone suspects something is amiss about your operation. You have to bring in witnesses of their actions to the colony just to keep the incidents quiet>Even when you are doing these retards a favor they STILL keep trying to mindlessly kill. If they could control themselves like the others in the colony could you'd be just fine>Finally get the girl protag and is on the verge of convincing her to join so she can be with her husband again. Like even when knowing he was a wolf she still trusted the doctor>The trio plus old wolf faggot go 'actually lets just kill all humans!' and rouse the others into seeing them as the new leaders.>When the hunter with silver bullets comes rolling around, just say 'fuck it' and let yourself get shot because even if they killed the hunter, them going for the red talon leadership was going to doom their colony either wayAs always, wolves letting the dog brains be in any form of leadership ends in silver
>>96726760Ambitious old hag...needs wyrm corruption
>>96724063>>96724081>>96724142>>96724185fantastic work habibiyou do commission work? got an email or something? your art's a highlight of the threads recently along with painter-anon
>>96724063>>96724081>>96724185>>96726760
>>96726491Werewolf 2nd or Revised.Or best of both worlds: Revised allowing things from 2nd, like everyone used to play.
>>96727233I do comms but I am overbooked on them as it is sadly, I'll have to clear my plate of some of that work before I can do new stuff. Pic related is a comm I finished recently for a VtM player.>>96727271lmao yeah, my bone gnawer I wanted to focus on a more friendly wolf, both socially and as a person. Emelia though? She's one that dominates socially so that even when she's smiling and cheerful there is tension in the room, is not afraid to kill, and enjoys the gift of youth that being a garou provides. Gonna have a lotta people horny for that im sure
>>96727147>>96727139Matilda will not sleep with you
>>96725780Door and Boy actually got informed when D called them at the start of the chapter almost immediately after Marcus got kidnapped, though they may have burnt down the O'Tully's already
>>96726601>>96726664>>96727326Thanks. Apart from the core book, what are some other good books for lore? I heard that Hengeyokai is great for anyone who likes the other types of werebeasts?
>>96724063>>96724081>>96724142>>96724185Fantastic design and style, but is she weak to anal?
>>96727373She is far more experienced than you areThe real question is, are YOU weak to anal?
>>96727326>allowing things from 2nd, like everyone used to plaSuch as?
>>96723859>50kek, try 120.>>96724666Which is fucking retarded. No multi-tribe pack/caern is dumb enough to send a Talon, who actively want humanity extinct or culled to 5% pop and are even more socially clueless in human circles then the usual Lupus, for a long-term infiltration mission inside a human organization with an esoteric purpose. Especially when there's a Glass Walker involved who needs to do stuff to their computers anyway.She doesn't even have any red on her werewolf form.The Talons are retarded themselves, borderline unplayable and should've been adjusted long ago, but if you're going to do them do it right. She should've been a Fianna, or a Fury to justify her nasty attitude.
>>96726340You're an Etherite, Literally Just Make One!This new generation of etherites has been nothing but a disappointement
>>96727344love a lasombra. would appreciate a heads up in the thread when you're in need of more customers.
>>96727121Metis sit in the back of the moots
>>96727440To be fair, it was more like 30 minutes of D's lore, 30 mins of Amanda and Kitten being kind of based, and an hour of Fatigue's traumatic family history>>96727440well tbf we don't really know if she's a red talon. It's Amanda's hearsay and we're coming off of a multi-red herring segment
>>96724666>>96727440All of her abilities were Bone Gnawer related, I am still betting on her true tribe being that, but it's more likely she was founded by a red talon tribe but was still at her core a bone gnawer. Very likely to be lupis born now with that in mind, explains why she couldn't write well.
>>96726142Nephandi aren't a "Flacor" of evil, they're about Quantity over Quality. Nphandi exist solely for the game to have unironic, uncompromising evil that's 100% justified to kill on sight. You don't run them for Them to make the story interesting, they exist to have an enemy players won't have any qualms about killing(assuming the players aren't terminally retarded).
>>96727478The Red Talon back scar seems more like a sign of ownership than belonging imo
>>96720723Nephandi were unironically winning given how far IRL got. It's weird looking back on WoD and realizing the 90's parody world was too optimistic about how fucked the world already was and how much worse it would get.
>>96727483yeah I'm betting on that too. bone gnawer/silent strider/glass walker overall sounds like a very solid pack in terms of teamwork. As another point, if she were red talon, we would have seen red talon gifts in action, like how they have the ability to make their crinos kills look like a person killed them, how they can perfectly hide their trails, or clean themselves of blood, etc. All would have made it far harder to detect her and would have made sense for a Red Talon to use.
>>96727506>that one segment where Matilda hides her bloodstained maid outfit in the closet instead of cleaning it or getting rid of it entirelyI suppose it makes sense she isn't a real Red Talon. HtP has been extremely good with unreliable narrators>Kevin and the Ghoul>Big D classic>Marcus and Kitten both withholding information
>>96726152The great failing of the Nephandi is that they've already won, they don't realize it, and so they strive for something that has already happened. Their very existence is a comedy. Time is a flat circle, and they're clowns in the circus they've helped to create.
>>96727497Please cry about it to someone who cares
Well looking at all the Parenting posts I can't decide if I feel more or less bad about touristing.Reading the books I'm filled with equal amount of cringe and kino, and I'm reminded of a post somewhere saying the stuff of today makes everything from 20+ years ago be palatable.Oh and some questions: Are the Fianna the dominant tribe for the british or is it another? And where are the stats for the dragonlike Wyrm creature I keep seeing mentioned and drawn but doesn't seem to be statted in this book?
>>96727614UK has a very low Garou population but it's divided between Fianna, Black Spiral Dancers, Glass Walkers and Get of Fenris, depending on the region.
>>96727379Of course I am, it’s fantastic
>>96727614Compared to the fluff, art, and very blatant leftist panderings in Pathfinder or DnD, even the cringy parts of WoD come off as kind of kino I think
is paradox responsible for the quality drop of 5th edition or what actually happened? the IP changed hands so many times it's hard to tell who is responsible
What tribes were involved with the Roman Republic/Empire?
>>96727720Probably a little bit of everything. Stupid Paradox mandates, the wrong writers getting their hands on it and completely fucking the lore up to appeal to the Fortnite crowd, getting shuffled from one studio to the other with effectively no long-term support... it was just fucked from day one really
>>96727653You're forgetting the Silver Fangs. They arguably control more of the UK than Fianna and Get combined.
>>96727753Tribes of what anon? Do you mean vampires? If so, do you mean VtR or VtM? Because the lore varies drastically between them where Rome is concerned. VtR's clans all were documented as existing and operating in the Roman Republic/Empire, though not all of them originated there. VtM's clans also were heavily involved with it but it's a lot more granular about who was doing what and when
>>96727720I agree with >>96727757, Paradox was the root cause by mandating there be a new edition so they can sell their sanitized version of things to vidya, and not putting any effort into vetting writers. But the writers themselves are still responsible for the multitude fuckups.
>>96727829Honestly just interested in what supernatural involvement in it in general.And 1st through Revised lore.
>>96727753Most of them. Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers would infest the city itself since the time it was big enough to take a census. Shadow Lords say they were influencing the Senate. Get of Fenris got incorporated into the legions. Children of Gaia would start sniffing around at the foundation of the Catholic church. Silver Fangs were part of the Constantinople nobility. Black Furies are on most of the islands around the Mediterranean and would be the ones to have claimed the remaining wilds of Italy. The incorporation of Egypt would interest the Silent Striders. Trade routes would eventually see the Stargazers travelling there.
So having watched the entirety of 5.2, I can safely say that it mostly just confirmed my thoughts on the series and its direction. The character work is solid, although (and this could just be the lack of stoic Door for a while now) it's developed an overly melodramatic tone at points. Kitten for example feels entirely not cut out for this shit, and no character has really called him out on it. The flashback to the Philippines was actually very interesting, and had some fun stuff in it, even if I found it a bit too heavy-handed at points with its political message, and I'd say Fatigue took a bad lesson from the event. For most of the audiolog, they handled the lore well, keeping it fairly speculative and details-unclear. But unfortunately, it kinda fumbled this at the end, with the characters asserting the Apoc party line very directly despite their otherwise lack of knowledge. D practically turned into an author's mouthpiece at the end there. It's felt like, for the last several updates, that they're constantly trying to write themselves out of new corners they put themselves into, and the revelation that the coalition, which is also somehow the second inquisition despite being too early to be called that is compromised by Pentex feels like a bit of a cop out to please everyone while still forcing a conflict with the Werewolves. I also think they were too obvious with what the solution to the conundrum is. Lastly, I think that it was a very, very odd choice to have the Society of Leopold working with The Arcanum and belligerently anglo-protestant werewolf skin-dancers, even unwittingly, over Filipino Christian hunters, given that something like 80%+ of the Philippines Christian population is Catholic. . Even for them that's a bit much.>>96727359Honestly that's a bigger problem for me, because now we're really going to be hopping around in time, going back to a past event just to add something else to the pile.
>>96727974I had to tap out of the Parenting after episode 1 because he recycled the same exact characters from TTS. Still feels fucked up and wrong to me
>>96727974I think these issues you have are exaggerated more by the inconsistent release schedule they have really slowing down the progress, there's still somewhere around 50% of the arc still left to do and the first arc was genuinely very good, so I feel like when the gang gets back together it'll be balance the character dynamics and drama of it. I felt the serious was more of a comedy during the 1st arc despite some neat bangers, 2nd part so far feels a bit bloated with characters currently though I expect to see a payoff at some point with the conclusion in chapter 7. The character bloat will only really get worse with the coalition characters so I expect them to job quite hard
>>96725354I just presume he's Imbued and/or has shitty rolls
>>96727869>so they can sell their sanitized version of things to vidyais vtmb2 the only reason they did this? what other vidya is there? a handful of visual novels?i wonder if dnd 5e coming out a few years prior urged them to make some sort of resurgence as well
>>96728105VtMB2 was supposed to be the flagship for a bunch of WoD titles, but it fell into dev hell like crazy. However, I think they were intending on licensing our their new WoD5 to more devs than they actually got, because almost nobody has taken the bait. My evidence: despite the Dark Pack allowing you to monetize any form of WoD content in the form of live-plays, audio-dramas, etc, even if you're using oWoD or even CofD, there is one major exception. Video games. Even indie vidya MUST use WoD5, unless there is no WoD5 equivalent and even then, it seems to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Besides the VNs there was Earthblood, the thoroughly dissappointing WtA character action game. It was released before W5, and thus uses older WtA lore as a basis, notably the MC being a Fianna. But besides that and Bloodhunt, a game that while technically competent doesn't do much with its licensed setting, there have been no real non-VN takers. I can't know this without proof from the company itself, but why else would a vidya company buy a TTRPG property that had recently had a noteworthy resurgence? They were clearly hoping to whore it out for video games. I'd say the problem though is that WoD isn't a very good investment if you're a developer that isn't the direct IP holder in the first place. Because now you're losing a cut of the profits in exchange for the potential extra purchases coming from WoD fans. The problem? Most WoD fans would buy a legitimately good urban fantasy game anyway. WoD was cobbled together from existing urban fantasy/horror works, and in turn it heavily influenced the genre. How often do you see people in this very thread reference similar media in relation to WoD, and ask how they could adapt it to their games? I think the Swedes are too used to free money from 4X Whales and didn't think the purchase through.
>>96728105Paradox bought the VtM rights specifically to make VtMB2, no joke
>>96728146>Besides the VNs there was Earthblood, the thoroughly dissappointing WtA character action game.It was an accurate game, though. "No matter what the Garou do, they somehow fuck everything up." It's just not what most want out of a game.
>>96728155I hate that this is reality
Garou women...................................
>>96728166.......are 101% dykes
>>96728105>what other vidya is there? Old HtR games
>>96728171>Interplay>in the Xbox eradear god...
>>96728105>what other vidya is there? a handful of visual novels?plus two VR games (Assamite action/stealth and Wraith storygame)and Werewolf Earthblood - 3rd person action game
>>96728170That's fine, I'll just Awaken and learn Life 3 so I can become a woman
>>96727954Was V20 classical age from STV?I think most of what I remember is from there, so it might be dubious.But if I'm remembering correctly and it has value it was Ventrue+Toreador+Malkavians as the leading clans. With Lasombra joining the club after some disputes (Roman expansion into their territories, Lasombra piracy, stuff like that), becoming interested in Christianity in general and also trying to use it to undermine Malkavian prophet-priests.Might be wrong and misremembering stuff that isn't even valid in the first place so take with salt.
>>96728181Wow, people forgot Bloodhunt already? It just came out in 2022!!
>>96728192I didn't hate Bloodhunt's gameplay. It was just retarded to try and compete with Fortnite using VtM of all things.
>>96728000Fair. It was a hurdle I had to overcome myself. I avoided watching the first three episodes for several months before I had one very, very boring evening and gave it a spin. I found the other stuff enjoyable enough to get past that hurdle. The probing of Kevin was the thing that really sold me. If they could write a legitimately good original character, I was willing to give them a fair shake. >>96728067>I think these issues you have are exaggerated more by the inconsistent release schedule they haveI agree, and have said as much in prior posts. Though I still think they're legitimate gripes, they're just exaggerated by waiting forever for barely anything to move. >>96728104I'm hardly an expert in the imbued, but I don't know why him being Imbued would give him slowed aging or let him know so fkin much about what's going on. Even this time, while he pretended to not know much about Werewolves, he started umbraposting on main and identified multiple tribes. As for "just rolling poorly", one I don't think HtP is enough of a 1:1 to the tabletop to explain that away, not to mention a lot of his fuck-ups aren't the result of fumbling in execution, they're foundational. You don't need to roll to not stand near a window when a vampire you know is stupid strong and can go invisible is on the loose and unaccounted for.
>>96728155at this point i wonder if vtmb was a curse more than a blessing
>>96727974Considering this was the early 1900s and was at the tail-end of colonial empires, it would make sense the Society of Leopold members viewed the Filipino Catholics were practicing the faith 'wrong' and probably had a healthy amount of European supremacy given they were dealing with what they probably saw as uncultured savages who might have been consorting with werewolves.
>>96728207I'd debase Hedgefag like you wouldn't believe.
>>96728158And I know. What could you possibly do with a WtA game if not a story-driven third person game about family? I just have no idea.https://youtu.be/T1nL2VBh3c8
>>96728192I legit forgot about thisit was made at the tail end of battle royale popularity when it started dropping offand the setting doesn't make any sense for a battle royaleit was very tone deaf, even if it might have been a good game
>>96728180Is that good or bad?
>>96728197Maybe if they had mixed the shooter aspect with a social deduction part to make it its own unique thing?Basically have sect objectives, clan objectives, and personal objectives. So everyone has goals that align and supposed allies, but also different goals that may or may not be violently incompatible.
>>96723362I'm starting to get the sense that the H:tR are quietly falling off the deep end in woke ideology.>Big D's remarks and misrepresentation of traditional values>The bastardized version of the skindancer ritual to make white christians the villains>The need to "Redeem" a white british dude by some random black filipino woman, all for the sins of his father that he Already Stood Against.I hope I'm wrong, but it's a lot of red flags.
I'm way to sober for this. Brb
How would you go about combining the lore of all the Chronicles splats, even fansplats like Princess or that incomplete ExWoD, into one somewhat coherent world, how would you do it?If someone hired you to provide the foundation of some kind of oWoD style metaplot what would be your first ideas?
>>96728245Really bad.
>>96728254Yeah, the "evil (and dumb) white colonialist/noble brown savage" trope was way too heavy-handed in this story. Should have made it subtler and it would have made for better suspense if it wasn't crystal-clear who the "bad guy" was. I still get a chuckle out of the name Kronik "Fati-gyu", lol.
>>96728254Tourist that is a tourist shows his ass as a tourist.
>>96728281Fuck off. WoD used to be full of the semi-cool kind of lefties before the millenial cancer set in.
>>96728254eh, I understand the concern but it's some rather topical literary tropes being applied and big D is not only Bi but genuinely a bad father so, it's still somewhat in-character and for the most part made sense. I think perhaps the politics will get dialed back when it gets refocused to England again
>>96728284>Guy who definitely would've complained about the "semi-cool" lefties tries to make it seem like he definitely wouldn't have been mad at those too.
>>96728210In a vacuum I could see the SoL coming into conflict with other, more grassroots Catholic hunters. The issue is that the SoL were themselves consorting with Rosicrucians and Protestant Werewolves. The Society has plenty of feelers out in dioceses across the world, it felt weird that they were just there as little more than hired goons the silly blue metal helmet and gas mask while hiking through mountainous jungle bugged me, even as just a portrait pic and catspaws. If the pinoys were half as religious as they would claim to be given that they call themselves Nails of Christ, you'd figure that there would've at least been an attempt to speak to them as brothers in Christ. The Philippines have been predominantly Catholic for centuries by the early 1900s, and today they are the third most populous Catholic nation on the planet. The eurocentrism (more accurately italiocentrism) of the Holy See is a real problem, one that has only recently been course-corrected for. But I think you are somewhat underestimating the power of catholic unity. I've had strangers of different races and nationalities treat me as a brother if they see a crucifix around my neck. Especially in the case of the SoL, who were actually more liberal than the church proper in terms of allowing laymen and women to do things. I'm the first to point out that the SoL probably assassinated Pope John Paul I, but they're not THAT incompetent or actively malicious. An attempt to give the Leopold rep an actual personality would've alleviated the problem significantly or explained how relations between the Society and a folk-catholic hunter group broke down. An attempt would've been made at least.
>>96728232could do a game where you play a walking human disaster like Disco Elysium, since for the most part turning into a crinos form garou should autowin combat for you unless it's expected
>>96728158I found the presentation alright, even if it gets things wrong. The problem is that it fucking sucks to play.
>>96728274Basically just canonize vampire, werewolf, mummy at the same time and then base everything else on wherever there are gaps. Realistically though there doesn't need to be a combined lore with every different splat having an unreliable narrator and lore presented by old fucks who are particularly self-interested and lying to you
>>96728305ultimately WoD games should be roleplay first, action second I think. Your character is either too OP to have meaningful combat or too weak to have meaningful combat outside of prepared bossfight encounters (RP skewed anyway)
>>96728292>I think perhaps the politics will get dialed back when it gets refocused to England againI hope so. I don't want to see another talented artist go down the self-destructive political purity spiral instead of making good content.
>>96728274There's suggestions in every splat about how to incorporate them and interact with other splats. As for the 'metaplot' that combines all the splats together, the most obvious way to handle such a premise is to do what DtD suggests and simply explain every supernatural element of the setting as something created by the God-Machine, or, if not directly created, then at least fostered/encouraged to grow in scope to create a true World of Darkness in accordance with the impossible-to-guess plans of the God-Machine. Intentional creations/encouragement to grow like VtR and WtF and MtC and MtA, and unintentional accidental creations like CtL and PtC. That lets you cleanly explain away the glaringly suspension-of-disbelief destroying secret societies and conspiracies lurking around every corner as being the product of an even bigger conspiracy's grand plan.
>>96728254Even putting contemporary politics aside for a moment, I found the ending to be pretty abominable. Wernon actively rejects his father's monstrous behavior, leads the Hunters to his family's fucked up rite, but is blamed for his father's choices despite his lack of knowledge as to what they were doing and is still told that he needs to make up for his ancestral guilt for the rest of his life? What the fuck. The local more or less kidnap him for 20 years, and when he leaves back home for England, it's just so he can steal from other people who had no knowledge of the evil shit his family was doing? Despite regarding them as his real family, his "real family" sure seemed happy to send him off for 50 years with no contact. If I had an adoptive son, the last thing I would do is send him halfway across the globe to steal money for me for the rest of his natural life. Granted, a lot of that could've been Fatigue's own choice, but we're given nothing to indicate that, only that this woman bombarded a traumatized teenager with ancestral guilt. I dunno what the writers were intending but that left a very bad taste in my mouth.
Do the various spiritual worlds (Umbra, Underworld, Dreaming, etc) work the same mechanically?Just thought of how this in ExWoD doesn't specify how this weapon works in places other than the mundane world and the underworld:>while the Shadow is soulforged into a powerful weapon the Exalt may reflexively call forth at any time while within the Underworld (in the living world, the weapon becomes in- substantial and invisible, and quickly merges with her anima)Is behavior in one particular realm generally a good rule of thumb for behavior in other realms?There's bound to be other powers and situations where this kind of thing happens and no one thought to specify.
>>96728348I don't think that's going to happen though, as not only is it a team but they've basically been the same ever since Emperor TTS, and were rather based back then even on the female space marine/custodes bit.
>>96728362>Do the various spiritual worlds (Umbra, Underworld, Dreaming, etc) work the same mechanically?No, not in the slightest. Although WtA does suggest that the Underworld and Dreaming MAY exist somewhere as deep, difficult-to-access fenced-off regions of the Umbra, the actual mechanics of each 'spirit' dimension is completely different in practice.
>>96728357>religious zealot hunter org weren't particularly good people either as opposed to the Christian furry larpersI think it puts things into perspective rather, I never got that the insurrectionists were presented as protagonists either
>>96728387I'd go with that if it weren't for things like the music cue when the woman said "One tile at a time" making it clear the authors wanted us to Agree with the psychotic zealot woman.
>>96728357Another issue is how that woman's main motivation, Her Fucking Daughter, seemed to be something she was willing to throw away whenever convenient. She showed all the red flags of psychopathic behavior, manipulative tendencies, and lack of empathy.
>>96728387Nobody outright says they're the "good guys", but in post the characters didn't really make any value judgements let alone condemnations on that pretty heinous act. Fatigue even thinks, for some reason, that Occam would understand his robbing of the Arcanum. The writing dwells on the evil of Kronik, a man who used monstrous tactics to destroy what he considered monsters. D condemns him, Kitten says he dislikes him, but would hypothetically work with him to get payback, and Amanda says she wouldn't. The nails aren't excoriated at all by the characters, and in fact the nails set up Fatigue's very kind "one tile at a time" line, not to mention they're the example that shows exactly how our protagonists can come out on top when both the Wyrm and Werewolves are at play. In writing terms, it seems to me that the intent was to make them the least bad people in a completely fucked situation.
>>96728408eh maybe, though I doubt that will come back again. I suppose part of the idea is that Fatigue was already overcome with guilt that he can only really cling to whatever is presented to him rather than figuring it out himself.
After reading through C20 and doing a bit of pbp, I really enjoy Changeling the Dreaming. It's of course radically different from CtL, which I've been playing for the past like 4 years, but I think it's a real good time. More people should try it
>>96728427i want to try it, will you play it with me? huh???
>>96728419Well, it's rather clear that despite the circumstance they are basically the least bad people given we are denied the werewolf perspective. At the very least they weren't the aggressors in the conflict
Soembody explain "skindancers" to me?
>>96728427CtD and CtL have so much in common but like...CtD:>fae are good and kindCtL:>fae are SO fucking evil holy shit.
Could Matilda be able to kill the Tremere regent by herself?
>>96728445Humans that hunt and Skin werewolves to take their powers. They do it via evil wyrm rites. It takes 5 werewolf "Pelts" for every skindancer.The complexity came from the fact they were created from a kinfolk rebellion that werewolves brought on themselves by treating their human family like second class citizens and breeding material... Up until a writer decided to make the main leader of the skindancers into his personal shitbrew OC.
>>96728451>CtD says fae are good and kindThe sidhe literally damn people souls by forcibly taking their bodies.
>>96728456Depends on the generation, if she's LaCroix-tier then yes easily but a 5 or 6th generation vampire or so might no-diff her pack
>>96728254This paranoia is righteous and well-earned given how hellish wokeism has made culture and entertainment, but honestly the series so far has had it being unintrusive and palatable. The sexuality of D and Kitten/Markus was weird (mostly due to being TTS parallels) but the series has been so focused on their actions/interactions as actual characters that it became a minor undistracting detail. D says his bullshit because he's a outrageous fruit fairy and loony radical, and none of the other gays behave that way. They don't bash men or straights, or have the diversity checkboxes in a role of the supercompetant infallible untouchable holy diversity golem. They can be wrong and make mistakes, they get the piss beaten out of them, they can be villains, etc.The Redeem angle is the most offputting just because the guy didn't really do anything wrong. Other then that it's all quite palatable. For now.
>>96728451I will say that the True Fae being just totally fucked does frustrate me sometimes, but CtD fae are definitely not all good and kind. Thay're glamourous, but Glamour=/=Good. The Fomorians and Thallain are Fae too, remember that.
>>96728474only in C20, and it's one of the lore edits that bothers me quite strongly. Reeks of trying too hard to make the setting grimdark to fit better into the other OWoD splats
>>96728451>play as Fae>surprised when book says Fae are cool dudes and shit>Play as Fae victim>surprised when book says Fae are genuinely just dicks for no reasonIt's kind of like the perspective between being a Garou and a Kinfolk
>>96728435I don't think it's that open and shut. Genuinely what they did to Fatigue, a well-intentioned young man who just betrayed his own father to do what's right is extremely morally wrong. There's also the weird fact that they only take an active stance against "foreign" supernaturals. As if homegrown monsters aren't killing people as well. I'll be honest they came off more as ethno-nationalists than Christians. I can't know the writers intentions, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth that they (rightfully) excoriated Kronik for becoming a monster to kill monsters but didn't acknowledge in a similar manner the horrible shit the Nails were doing.
>>96728481I'm going to believe the whole Redeem thing was just Mark taking advantage of the situation and Fatigue's inherent feelings of guilt, to cap off the whole Sins of the Father angle they're going with the Garou subplot which I can only imagine will get worse when the Garou deeplore gets referenced
>>96728483CtD was always grimdark. Literally the first book printed for it was written to be a journey of realizing imagination is dying and there's nothing you can do to stop it, all following the in-universe fae progression of childling > wilder > grump as the reader slowly realizes how fucking screwed the changelings were.
>>96728434I'm sorry anon but I have a personal rule to not play ttrpgs with anons. Just too much risk for a bad time
>>96728492I suppose we disagree in that I don't believe the framing for the Nails was particularly that great though we're both entitled to our opinions. I do see your point though and I agree that it is pretty odd, though I guess perhaps they saw that passing judgement on what's basically a filler temporary group might bloat the episode even further
>>96728503That's the world setting being grimdark. He was talking about the fae being EvilBad in CtL and being GoodNice in CtD. Yeah, yeah, Redcaps, Sluagh; those are like slightly-misguided Team Rocket-level villains at their worst.
>>96728192>>96728239>The fucking Battle Royale bandwagon game has better graphics, customization, and combat than Bloodlines 2This is horrible.
>>96728503That's not grimdark, that's just depression. Grimdark is when characters/factions do incredibly evil shit for no reason, like the C20 Noble Sidhes arbitrarily refusing to use the Changeling Way to reincarnate naturally and instead ripping people's souls out of their body to stay 'pure.' In CtD 1e and 2e, what the Noble Sidhe do to return to Earth would be considered an unforgivable crime and punished with execution on the spot
>>96728514>on what's basically a filler temporary groupThe easiest way we'll see if alfa's team is going off the deep end or not is if they Stay a filler group.If they come back and stay uncondemned, then we'll know for certain it's the begining of the end for H:tP and alfa's channel.
>>96728519Redcaps literally eat people anon. They've Always eaten people.
>>96728532Yeah that would probably be accurate
>>96728537It's forbidden by law and they generally don't do it anymore unless they're completely unhinged. Since the alternative is, you know, getting executed
>>96728274I think you can get a pretty consistent and logical cosmology by combining Mage and Werewolf. Mage has the big picture truths and Werewolf fills in a lot of the details. From there you just decide how the various splats were originally created in that cosmology. The Dreaming was created by the wyld as a repository for all dreams and imaginations. Caine was cursed by the God who lives in the Upper Umbra, and has inherent metaphysical power as the first murderer (which is why Lilith's ritual to Awaken him turned him into whatever the fuck he is now)Gaia is underneath the Triat but is still an unbelievably powerful spirit etc
>>96728548he said cofd
>>96728505i'm going to fucking kill myself
>>96728532Considering they're southeast asian ethno-nationalists, there is zero reason for any of them to be in England.
>>96728555>TripsAlso you could try facebook or roll20. You'll get lots of sexual deviants and nose rings, but you'll find games.
>>96728558>there is zero reason for any of them to be in England.Exactly, which is why we'll know that the writing has gone to hell if they show up.
>>96728465>Up until a writer decided to make the main leader of the skindancers into his personal shitbrew OC.Skinner's whole thing wasn't that he was crusading for kinfolk rights or whatever, since kinfolk are actually stated to usually be treated well. He just thought the Garou were stupid and he was more deserving of the gifts. Haight came first, the skindancers were introduced after.
>>96728299Incredibly late reply so I’m a huge faggot but the leftism from oWoD was directed towards establishments that were incredibly right-wing and gigs-retarded like Reaganism and Thatcherism. Punk has always been about revolting against the status quo. Now that the status quo is “white man bad” it’s not punk to be a pansexual deadbeat dad. It’s just the norm, which means D’s feelings on “traditional values” is preachy, not punk.
>>96728548I think at the minimum you have to incorporate God and Caine
>>96728483That has always been the case with Sidhe, did you not read the earlier editions? When they came back it wasn't like there were empty bodies lying around for them to take.
>>96728555Don’t do it, Anon! You might wake up to be reaped into Stygia.
>>96728562>playing WoD game with sexual deviants or nose rings but not the funny kindNTA but not so sure if that's a good idea. I'd say maybe find a local DnD group you tolerate and try to induct them into WoD
>>96728465>>>96728569You knowledge of the ritual was spread by Haight and he was genuinely an evil and insane piece of shit. There is some lore about how he was given a psychiatric evaluation by his company (recently acquired by Pentex) and he was shown to be sociopathic, dangerous, and unstable. Pentex quietly buried and promoted him to the head of the company they had acquired. That's talent management
>>96728578don't threaten me with a good time
>>96728300maybe they kept the fatigue family secret from even their allies? It wouldn't be out of the question for what he was trying to do.Either that or the Society is as equally compromised as them which given what Hunter the Parenting is going for given what they are showing with the SI
>>96728572Lemme heap on to your faggotry which is that oWoD's "leftism" was very measured comparison to the useful idiots we have today. "The Man" factions such as the Camarilla weren't just strawmen, and the designated "punks" had issues. To the point it isn't uncommon for players to look at things and come to a very different conclusion than the author's own beliefs. Only Pentex comes off as even a little absurd, and even then, there are such a thing as "good guy" corporations in WtA. The entire point of the Glass Walker tribe is that modernity need not be the enemy. I'd say it's not even fair to compare the left and right wing of today with that of the 90s. So much has changed those terms are really meaningless, we live in an entirely different political paradigm, much as everyone wants to deny it.
>>96728588Stygia doesn't have ttrpg nights and will make you a 24 hour wagie instead of just a 16 hour wagie(you're not a main character or player character after all).It's literally all your current problems turned up to Hell mode.
>>96728519There's a subplot through the chapter fiction of Nobles: the Shining Host where one Sidhe kidnaps the girlfriend of another and has her tortured and raped and threatens to kill her unless the targeted Sidhe publicly recants his ideas to give commoners equal rights.
>>96728519>EvilBad in CtDThat’s House Balor and the Shadow Court, no? The Shadow Court is an Unseelie conspiracy that wants to return to the status quo of the Fae being mercilessly cruel for shits and giggles and treating everything as a play, where humans are merely their playthings.
>>96728577>That has always been the case with Sidhe, did you not read the earlier editions?No, no it has not. I literally read 1e before I read C20 and one of the most glaring discrepancies in the lore was the new addition that the Noble Sidhe returning from Arcadia were rejecting the Changeling Way. In 1e and 2e there is no other option to survive on Earth except the Changeling Way ritual. The false reincarnation the Noble Sidhe use in C20 shouldn't even work by 1e and 2e rules, since the *entire fucking reason* why fae souls have to reincarnate into humans is so that the human soul and body of the host will protect them from Banality. It's just stupid grimdark shit shoved into the setting to make all the Nobles evil. Similar to how all the Noble-owned Freeholds are now evil and refusing to help commoner fae for no reason in C20, and MUH HECKIN BASED COUNTERCULTURE Unseelie are staging Arab Spring and BLM protests and riots to try and overthrow the EEEEEVIL Nobles who are so EEEEEVIL now that they literally hollow out human souls like parasites!>When they came back it wasn't like there were empty bodies lying around for them to take.The Changeling Way doesn't work like that anon. They reincarnate into newborn humans. It was never a problem in 1e and 2e.
>>96727869Vetting writers is useless if they have to answer to one true way Vampire LARP die-hards.
>>96728601>Only Pentex comes off as even a little absurdHonestly, everything we've found out in recent years has shown pentex was a cuddly teddybear compared to IRL corpo evils. The fucking Wyrm would be horrified by some of the shit IRL humans have done.
>>96728610>one Sidhe kidnaps the girlfriend of another and has her tortured and raped and threatens to kill her unless the targeted Sidhe publicly recants his ideas to give commoners equal rightsBASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASEDFUCK THOSE COMMIE COMMONERS
>>96728603but I'm not a wagie AND I don't have any friends to lose, so like I said, don't threaten me with a good time!!!
>>96728617Reread 1e. Sidhe eventually could do the changeling way, but either lacked the ability, knowledge, or will to do it when they first returned. And reread C20. The Unseelie aligning with those movements was to show how they were fucked up because the politics of that book were all over the place. Honestly you sound like a fucking retard. Typical of a Noble bootlicker.
>>96728622>>96727869if Paradox takes over the IP anyway how would they even vet writers? There's almost no real criteria
>>96728655Don't worry, they'll just hire their friends in the biz. It's how most RPG writers get work.
>>96728209game itself>blessingthe aftermath is definitely a curse though>WW (already failing though) owned by Paradox>Paradox abandoning the IP because they hire clueless fucks and unreliables who don't know how to finish games out>Paradox themselves cluess as to the appeal of the IPThis is just sort of how it is, there's no hope anyway for a lot of these mainstream properties now that TTRP and video games are mainstream. Profits demand corporate growth and all that
>>96728647>Reread 1e. Sidhe eventually could do the changeling way, but either lacked the ability, knowledge, or will to do it when they first returned.This is nowhere in the core book for 1e. >The Unseelie aligning with those movements was to show how they were fucked up because the politics of that book were all over the place. Then why does C20 present them as heroes trying to save the fae from the EEEEEEEVIL nobles who have picked up the idiot ball because the writers of C20 are fucking retarded and the nobles are now just not talking to the commoners at all for no reason whatsoever?>Honestly you sound like a fucking retard. Fuck off you literal faggot, you don't even read the books.
>>96728588>>96728603>>96728634>Implying the implication that he wouldn’t just be soul-forged immediatelyI shiggy diggy
>>96728655Where would they even find good writers anyway. The political retards in all the colleges have sabotaged the last 3 generations of writers. There's legit like a small handful of actually good authors, and they all produce independently online.
>>96728662>hack jobs get hired by knowing some retarded CEO while an anon could probably write something better off of sheer autism and has no hope of being hiredGod I fucking hate California
>>96728589>maybe they kept the fatigue family secret from even their allies?Oh see I assumed that to be the case, after all the SoL guys conveniently died when the Fatigues did the whole village. Still, they were working with pr*testants and r*sicrucians unquestioningly and didn't even consider attempting a parlay with a group loudly declaring themselves as Christians in a predominantly catholic nation. This is primarily a consequence of the SoL rep being a non-character who exists to go "hell yeah I love shooting people". Which is silly because they could've just made them mercenaries (which would've fit the colonial and wyrm stuff going on better), they didn't need to use a Belgian SoL-Arcanum alliance to get Pascal out of the jungle. The arcanum does have its own field agents, or his rich family could've paid out the nose for a rescue team. Idk this all feels like a consequence of the weird decision to use the Second Inquisition while not understanding the SI or the Society of Leopold very well. Fun fact, when England went protestant with the Church of England, a bunch of SoL centacles went independent of the Vatican along with their country, renaming themselves the Society of St. George, while otherwise operating in the same manner. Granted, V20 retconned that for some reason and then V5 retconned the retcon with a different retcon. it hurts
>>96728669>good writers writing for a video game instead of making their own novelsVideo game writing is pretty cooked. Doesn't help that scenario writers do a lot of work to make a game good but also get paid nothing
>>96728670We've long been overdue for the fault line pushing that bitch into the ocean or yellowstone going off, but it still hasn't happened quite yet.
The thing about VTM: Bloodlines is that it was made by some of the best game developers of all time. The guys that created the Fallout universe and were involved in a lot of other great stuff. It isn't really possible to hire a bunch of slop corporate types and match that level of quality every time. It's not impossible, it's just extremely unlikely. They are also better writers than the White Wolf guys were
>>96728669>There's legit like a small handful of actually good authors, and they all produce independently online.Do companies never reach out to these kinds of people?IMO getting popular through your skill of writing alone for obscure content is the best thing someone could put on their resume, forget all the "previous company experience" shit
>>9672860190s White Wolf was more liberal than leftist anyway.>sneering at any sort of extreme political ideology and lumping them all together with the laughing stock that is the brujah>constant ridiculing and mocking of the soviet union and any sort of communist or socialist nation as failed states ruled over by despots>terrified pearl-clutching whenever they mention the awful european union that is eroding all of the culture of europe>absolute zero interest in worker solidarity or wealth taxation or supporting the masses with abundant welfare>lots of interest in just being able to be who they want to be and love who they want to love and do what they want to do>their ideology is more about personal freedoms and self-expression and individuality and they are utterly repulsed by the idea of collectivism>for this reason america despite all of its flaws especially in the world of darkness is heralded as a beacon of freedom and democracy and individualismDepends on your politics, some of these good points and some of these are bad points, but White Wolf was absolutely never leftist is in the socialist or communist sense, only in the liberal "muh freedoms and individuality" sense.
>>96728623It was funny when normalfags found out about the Coca-Cola mercenaries and then immediately put it out of their minds because of their sugar addictions.
>>96728706Yup, that's what American liberals and Democrats looked like in the 1990s and earlier, before the complete insanity of woke set in during the 2010s.
>>96728671My guess is that they wrote in the society of leopold for this flashback to give a bad impression to the audience when they introduce in modern times.
>>96728698Only companies that don't really have ego writers, so typically a japanese company or some indies I would assume like with GRRM and Elden Ring
>>96728706>Depends on your politics, some of these good points and some of these are bad pointsSome of the are hard facts. The EU is absolutely toxic for example. Nobody on the ground floor of europe wants to keep shovelling foreign rapists and criminals into their neighborhoods, but the EU keeps taking in more and assassinating politicians that stand against them.What are the "sudden deaths" in the german conservative party up to now? like 27?
>>96728755>so typically a japanese companyHopefully japan can avoid the leftist plague. There LDP are literally treasonous and full of people trying to sell them to china or california corpos depending on the time of day.
>>96728765Japan has fallen, the Yakuza don’t have any real power, and the imported Chinese communism was only delayed, not stopped. Only a fool would refuse to accelerate in these times. A global collapse is necessary and from the incineration of the current order a new world can be born, like a phoenix from the ashes. Protect the ones you love. Live in the world, but not of it. Mask your true intentions to blend in while actively pushing everything to the brink.
>>96728750They did it in the most retarded and ham-fisted way possible. Also managed to contradict most of the lore surrounding both them And skindancers in one sitting.This episode should have honestly been scrapped early in production and something else should have been made instead. The political red flags asside, the writing wasn't up to their usual standards.
>>96728783>Only a fool would refuse to accelerate in these times.My guy, acceleration is what they Want. society falling so fast and so hard it's crippled and broken would leave it ripe for the pickings of the already wealthy and powerful.The world needs to be course-corrected while there's still a world to save. Don't believe the lies of glowies and astroturfers trying to become IRL pentex.
>>96728796>Thinks the guy he's talking to isn't a glowieDon't reply to them anon. They're doing this for a paycheck.
>>96728796Let me guess, you think the Fallout TV show having the elite nuking the world because it would make for “easy pickings” was intelligent writing, too?
>>96728802>Instant strawmanHuh, he was right. You're either a glowie or a redditard.
>>96728799>DubsHe speaks the truth.
>>96728810k
>>96728666Here it is in 2e, I don't feel like finding it for you in 1st. Why do you think Banality is such a problem for Sidhe, and why do they fear death? The Shadow Court is not a single, organized conspiracy. It's composed of multiple factions with multiple goals and rarely do they acknowledge would-be co-conspirators as allies. The one I'm guessing that C20 was referring to is the one composed of commoners who mainly want to see the Seelie Court humbled and the nobility brought low. This is usually a very loosely organized faction, their leaders chosen on Samhain as just the best and most trusted member from their community. You'd know this if you read the Shadow Court. The Eshu from the novel series is one of these, and he is never presented as evil or ignoble. Stop being a whiny bitch.
>”Erm ackshually humans have True Faith to make it easier to fight monsters”Okay I will use True Faith to not get corrupted by a Bane as a skinwalker—>”NO NO NO YOU CAN’T DO THAT”this is why you don’t mix splats
CtL>CtDIt's not rocket surgery. It's the truth
Sex with Mother Earth.
>>96729030>tell me you’re black without telling me you’re black
>>96728999Wyrm isn't the devil. That's like arguing true faith should protect you from radiation poisoning
Delirium is the dumbest god-damn thing. Really, all of the "oh god a monster" effects are. But Delirium especially so.
>>96729067True Faith can protect against radiation poisoning, however.
>>96729079whoa, cool it with the antisemitism
>>96728736>conservative is the new liberalWe've gone full retard.
>>96729087Horseshoe Theory? More like Horseshoe LAW
>>96728663I wonder just how much impact VtMB had an effect on the franchise as a whole, and what would've been today without it. Maybe WW was better off dead and buried
>>96729143It’s a cult classic which means the normalfags only knew about it after sloptubers made 6-hour videos about the dehumanizing horrors of the patriarchal Malkavian Cobweb that forced Therese to be raped as a child and manifest a split personality to reclaim her mystical vagina powers from the phallic cult of the Frankosphere or whatever dogshit these kids peddle out to retards these days. VTMB did nothing wrong, it’s marketing Jews tarnishing its legacy that’s the problem.
>>96729143Nobody with any authority understands why people like VtMB. It's like it's esoteric knowledge, and it's sort of like ultimate proof in NPC theory, because the answer isn't mysterious. VtMB is appreciated because it ISN'T VtM. It's VtM, but campy as all hell.
>>96729168I wish game developers and publishers were forced to play their own games they work on. Maybe that would fix the industry. but that's wishful thinking
>>96729168Bloodlines is appreciated because it captured the emotional journey of being a fledgling with stages, music choice, and conversation.Santa Monica and Isolated set the stage for refusing to believe this situation is real while explicitly stating things as mundane as watching the sunset or surfing can never be experienced again.The Last Round and Lecher Bitch help project that anger outwards, perhaps at the Camarilla, perhaps at the Anarchs, or perhaps at the world in general.Downtown in general and Bloodlines is your dude hoping that maybe just doing what they’re told or choosing to go along with the ride because there’s nothing else happening will help make it all make sense. Maybe some good can come out of killing Russian mafia or “evil” vampires. Maybe being a vampire isn’t so bad.Then you hit Hollywood and it hits you that it’s all shit. You can’t leave with Samantha. The glamor of film is just pornography and smut. The most human of vampires sell themselves every night to mortals who willingly dehumanize themselves in strip clubs and peep shows. Cain is on the radio and it’s reminding you this new unlife was never your choice.By Chinatown you’re a murder machine. You’re the monster. You kill monsters, humans, and you kill because you’re a killer. Come Alive is the song in Glaze because now you’re finally living your unlife to its fullest, which culminates in the ending.When you hear Swamped and recognize that you can’t walk away from what you are, and you’re fine with what you‘ve become, you have the catharsis you need. It’s a perfect narrative experience marred by a shitty game engine and development crunch. It’s a cult game because it’s mechanically flawed by what it tried to be is recognized by the audience who cares.Nobody working on 2 has the same measure of passion.
>>96728197>It was just retarded to try and compete with Fortnite using VtM of all things.Not as crazy a premise as you might think. It's just Sabbat and Camarilla fighting in Downtown. That's it.
>>96729243autism
>>96729243>Then you hit Hollywood and it hits you that it’s all shit.I wish more games did thisrecently played through Shadows of New York and the "good" ending is so utterly dehumanizing that it makes you remember exactly what a monster you are. Not just a ebil vampire beast out to drink humans, but an actual parasitic worm, eager to gnaw a chunk out of the purest things this world has to offer because that's all you can do to feel somethingit's so rare for anything to invoke this kind of feeling
>>96729243https://youtu.be/ZkWgQ2ZAnRc
>>96728999Is there anything actually saying that this can't work if you're actually a full on true believer that you're doing the right thing? no hesitation no doubt sort of thing
>>96729079Delirium is backed in lore iirc. It's a bit retarded and goofy but also it's because werewolves basically genocided humanity for a good portion of time or something and gave them some spiritual ptsd shit
>>96729293Yeah, but I'm looking at the chart for what happens at different levels of Willpower and it's like: You Die From Fear,You Pass Out, You Shit Yourself, You Piss Yourself, You Run Away, You Are Scared But Retain Control, You Are Curious, YOU ARE INSANE WITH ANGER KILL KILL KILL, Nothing Happens
>>96729271I forgot where I read it, but the reason Blumhouse horror does so well is because it’s loud and shocking and gets the adrenaline pumping, but that’s all it is. Meanwhile, a movie like The Mist with its original ending does comparatively poorly because it lingers. It sticks with the audience like sewage and they can’t get the stink off of them.A story that lingers irks the normalfag audience. It’s one of the reasons Spec Ops: The Line is still bitched about by casualfags today, the same casuals who ignore the inhumanity of the SPARTAN program in Halo because John Halo killed the aliens bigly.
>>96729143Like some other anons said it's a cult classic but it's fundamentally misunderstood. CEOs and retards thing it's popular because le vampire is cool and action vampire game with "rpg" elements is cool and will sell tons, but like anon here >>96729168 puts it, it's what it does to set itself apart from VtM that it does so well that makes it a cult classic>iconic soundtrack>genuinely impressive reactivity>excellent dialogue writingThe game treats itself like an interactive single player RPG fallout in a gothic setting, but retardbrains see RPG and immediately assume we want a low reactivity game like Skyrim or Fallout 4. Chasing the VtMB potential is really what will kill off WW after Paradox sees they just can't do it and cross apply it to their other IPs because they're fucking retarded with no quality control
>>96729193>getting a CEO to shove his head out of his own ass and play a game for more than an hour>getting a californian game dev to willingly play his own work and not assume it's inspired by god himselfTragic times we live in
>>96729293>>96729305Also, here's something to consider. Humans have genocided humans. A lot. And I don't think it's normal for humans to be fundamentally afraid of humans via a genetic memory. Distrusting on the basis of tribe, certainly. Afraid? Naw.
>>96729259It's not a terrible game sure but>mediocre pricing>impossible to get fortnite addicts away from fortnite unless fortnite kills itself with a bad update which is impossible because every fortnite update is the safest shit or crossover ever
>>96729289No but if you do this on the tabletop you WILL get murdered by your CIA handler IRL.
>>96729315Humans also can’t cleave a human in half mere seconds after materializing from a puddle of water, so…
>>96729315>Spooky wolf demons spend centuries genociding and enslaving the entirety of humanity>versus some ethnic progroms every couple of centuriesYes, but this is a setting with magic and shit and real actual werewolves. It's like your hair standing on end against a wild bear on instinct but x 10 or something like that
>>96729324I suppose it'd be a really big dick move to the ST to metagame yourself into a Skin Walker unprompted and genuinely faith schizo yourself into it working
>>96729335Your ST would first have to allow you to get more than 5 dots in True Faith, and if your ST EVER lets you go above 5 dots in any splat, you’re bound to have a bad time unless by some miracle you have a group of non-narcissistic geniuses.
>>96729310I'm sure that despite being as deep as a fucking puddle, Bloodlines 2 will still have mild success. People liked FO4, they liked Skyrim, and they will like this as well, slop as it may be.I'm not looking forward to the future, though. It's grim.
The Delerium is just a hackneyed justification for Werewolves being able to go on big blood rampages without shattering the Masquerade and getting wiped out. You're all thinking about it a lot more than the original writers did.
>>96729343Treat every day as if it were 2004 and you will never be unhappy.
>>96729343Nah Starfield got rightfully mocked for being slop and this "rpg" has even less RPG and reactivity segments than Starfield except for the mandatory Malkavian schizoid force ghost in your cranium, which not only squanders their best character design, but also just forces you away from character customization. It might be a bit successful if the game has actually good writing but the signs are really pointing away from it>Phyre is still the name>Dialogue is unnatural, weirdly paced, too much like a stageplay instead of the one-sided conversations of the first game>using nu-lore>not a single RP element you can choose except for Favian segments>only in-game interaction is doing parkour to get to setpieces faster and killing goons and sabbat.I don't know how it's possible, and I very much question if it can be possible, but Bloodlines 2 is looking to be even more slop than Starfield and that's with a rather niche IP. I could probably make a better Bloodlines sequel working fully solo in the 7 years it took Paradox to get this game out with their shit management
How numerous are the mokole considered to be in modern times?
>>96729351I suppose that's a good point but while it's in the lore might as well apply it to interesting situations. It is a bit lame when it's used to fully incapacitate the cast though>>96729342I was considering letting my players go above 5 dots at some point late into the campaign but in hindsight I probably shouldn't trust them just yet
>>96728785honestly I'm fine with hunters that went so far they learned to become skindancers. In fact, I think that's actually a really cool idea. But of course, I'm not an oWoD purist. But the way they've characterized the SoL is irking me. It's one thing to invent a new minor faction, it's another to take a fairly major player and write them as jackbooted thugs that don't actually hold to any of the tenets of the religion and sect they purportedly are fundamentalist zealots of. It shouldn't be hard to write the SoL as antagonist hunters, there's some pretty bad shit they've done in canon. But it felt more like they were shoved into a role and nobody in the writing room cared if they were representing the most well known organized oWoD hunters accurately.
>>96729364If I weren’t a poorfag (I am sleeping in a wooden palette during the day to work shit jobs at night) I would encourage /tg/ to make their own Vampire game with blackjack and hookers and offer it for free just to spite AAA titles and avoid copyright laws.
>>96729380I'll consider it if I ever get around to finishing my project but it probably wouldn't be free as I am also a poorfag, though I guess the only way to shit out a Bloodlines game without being sued to death is making a free game
>>96729376>”Religion is BAD,” said the ten-foot tall gleaming golden god man. “Humanity should be free to follow REASON, and by REASON I mean UNQUESTIONINGLY OBEY MY EVERY ORDER TO THE LETTER.”
>>96729380>>96729376I suppose rather sad too, can't really blame Chinese Room as they have to make the game to what Paradox tells them too even if they don't really understand the IP and were latecomers anyway
>>96729382I’m pretty sure if at least 20% of the game is original with the other 80% being oblique references to VtM you’ll be fine. Like, instead of 13 clans, you have 7 “strains” of vampirism based on which region of the world the infection originated in.
Question. If taken as truth, doesn't the "genetic memory" justification for Delerium disprove Out of Africa in WtA? Follow me here, and correct me if I'm just wrong about something.Out of Africa posits that the origin point of Homo Sapiens was subsaharan Africa, and so far the genetic and anthropological data has backed the theory up. Africa has native canids, but no "wolves", and thus, little to no Werewolves. But if all of this is true, why do Africans suffer delirium? Were other shapeshifters also part of the Impergium? Unless that's the case, sub-saharan africans should lack the genetic memory of the impergium as they had little to no indigenous lycanthropes.
>>96729388There's no way people who made their name doing 40k would miss the point that The Emperor's stance on religion was overly dogmatic, he lost the debate to the priest of the last church hard, and his refusal to promote healthy religion and spirituality is what allowed Chaos to worm its way into his empire's heart.... right?
>>96729402OoA has already been disproven IRL. Regardless, the Impergium was a global event and garou have global travel possible thanks to the Umbra. While there are varieties of wereanimals, including in Africa, the absence of Lupus lupus in Nigeria didn’t prevent garou from making their way down there to cut down some darkies.
>>96729400Damn that's actually kind of a cool workaround for legally distinct vtm
>>96729402>>96729417Was about to say yeah, we've found older sapiens skulls elsewhere. Eitherway, Wolves spread out after they had so much real estate from mass murdering other shifters
>>96729402The Impergium was mostly a woof thing, but werewolves can teleport through the umbra.Also, Ananasi eat people for their blood, let alone snake-shifters and the fear snakes already cause.
>>96729417>OoA has already been disproven IRL.It has? I was under the impression that the genetic data still supported it, albeit with multiple waves of migration out of the continent over tens of thousands of years.
>>96729421You sure? Because explicitly tying every not-clan to an area of the world but keeping the politics is just going to turn the undead race war aspect up to 11.
>>96729414This is why so many people are alarmed by this episode. Someone writing both wants D to be The Emperor, but The Emperor wasn’t the loredumper in TTS; Kitten was. The Emperor is allowed to be fallible in TTS because the reliable narrator is Kitten, who is a noticeable and excusable anomaly for a Custodian.In HtP, no one knows who or what D is, he’s simultaneously always right but always wrong, he is more bipolar than my mother, and he’s toed, if not crossed, the line of being SpeakerD’s self-insert repeatedly. Despite having flesh and inflection, D is somehow LESS charismatic than Skelly Lord.
>>96729431Undead Race/Religious War is probably one of the cooler aspects of VtM I think
>>96729445Respectfully but strongly disagree on the first part. I'm okay with the religious war but that's still not my favorite part.
>>96729441Could be, though I feel like this episode is just further leading on the tension from previous chapters of D being an unreliable narrator and withholding enough information, though this time Marcus isn't around to call him out on it. I'm hopeful the buildup comes to a conclusion later down the arc but I understand why people kind of dislike it
>>96729427Apart from it making no logical sense that humans would migrate from a place of high resources and relative safety to places of few resources and imminent danger, evidence of common ancestors have been found in Northern Europe older than anything in Africa.
>>96729451If D is an unreliable narrator then having lore dump episodes that are hours long is a serious breach of civil audience engagement, and an entirely different discussion worth having.
>>96729452Fascinating. Do you have any articles or something to search to read up on this? I'm fascinated by early human history.
>>96729449Fair enough, I can accept that it isn't for everyone though making it a giant melting pot would be the sort of leftist messaging I can't agree with either. I kind of enjoy that stuff though but perhaps as an alternative you could say the splintered off from an original vampire
>>96729455D is a reliable narrator for lore, but he's an unreliable narrator for moments when he decides that enough relevant information was shared or about his opinion and thoughts about their nature I figure. He's clearly biased with his own thoughts, though I agree making him both the lore arbiter and a character with emotions and his own plans doesn't work very well when it regularly harms the entire party
>>96729465Oh don't get me wrong, I like having multiple clans that find themselves in frequent conflict, but I strongly prefer the more archetypal clans (Nosferatu, Toreador, Ventrue) to the clans that are originally rooted in an ethnicity or race (Assamites, Setites). There's more you can do with them, and I find they "work out" better for a game with characters that can unlive for so long they see the culture of their birth totally die out or become so alien to them they feel as a foreigner in their homeland.
>>96729472That's pretty fair, don't see a reason why there can't be both. Though to my understanding Assamites and Setites can be inducted even without being tied down to a specific group
>>96729460Right now I don’t have anything beyond what you could Google yourself since I wasn’t prepared for this discussion someone else brought up. Please absolve me of not having such documents always on-hand.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15878780/https://www.jstor.org/stable/683538https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/31431721/Paleontological_test-AA-libre.pdf?1392352397=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DPaleontological_test_AA.pdf&Expires=1760169251&Signature=QAvGqJKsaY12D~hjI65i9EE0~GgLLAP3sB3dW8Hq7kB3gDXDWmiz0GeRkRF6aEn5CY-HeGsV87j6CByPEuApNnJQiQttOVVw78rrFLoc~34mlfNb-JEYBIVUnsRgmMaXwfu~yJNVNNohUHX4KXuz12o13Pw6K0HLvakZju2YKNHn8eXCn0516oXrhwEUrRRIWAZ1KiIANaqYCeAyWlWQZmjL8KHa95Pn6P0qm3szFEobdGFvQleluYIP2VedJXM1cvzoooCEqiYbu6emmTnYX-1-ugcyLx3yQPswDTzwLN3Ze0LHUOY3V2yv0x5GdTWW4I9HL8QRCOjHP7NoqFSrJw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA
Death to all Tremere
>>96729483delete this
>>96729483No problem. I'm genuinely curious.
>>96729484whoa, cool it with the antisemitism
>>96729484Tremere did nothing wrong Saulot
>>96729483the same people who preach out of africa deny the solutreans with the same breath
I know we’re at bump limit but the mods need to delete this thread so it can’t be found in the archives.
What are these things? They keep popping up in illustrations but can't find anything statted that fits description.
>>96729526Why? We actually managed to discuss things other than faggy mage sophistry.
Whomever voiced Kronik was giving me real Azariah Kyras vibes.
>>96729427It hasn't. OOA is still the widespread scientific consensus and DNA evidence is pretty firm that home sapiens first evolved there.
>>96729484sadly they are way ahead of you. Most of them even already came back to (un)life
>>96729603The same people who believe DNA evidence confirms humanity’s origins start in Africa also argue that humanity returned to Africa to try and hedge their bets. There is no scientific basis for OoA, only cultural, predominantly because Adam and Eve in the Book of Genesis are typically associated with the Fertile Crescent and is the founding myth of humanity for our modern Eurocentric scientific community.Get rid of the religious in science and OoA wouldn’t even be a footnote in 100 years.
>>96729617What? There is a huge amount of genetic and archaeological evidence for it. How do you even arrive at an opinon so far off base when you can just Google shit like this? What sorta alternative fact le epic rational sceptic Youtube rabbit hole did you stumble into?
>>96729584dragons
>>96729645The theory is pure confirmation bias because of the refusal to look elsewhere. Science used to be trying to disprove one’s theory, but no OoA believer digs in Canada, Greenland, Denmark, Russia, Chile, or Canberra. That’s because they know it’s pure religious dogmatism.Next you’re going to tell me high melanin content is the Mark of Cain.
>>96729687I think the mark of cane is probably why you've turned out this way.
>The OoA theory has been disproven>*LAUGHS IN ETHERITE SCIENCE*
>>96725780I don't think the plotline bloat in itself is inherently bad. I think it stems from half the appeal of the series being in-character rambling about weird tabletop game lore, same as with TTS. They need to introduce these groups so they have an in-universe reason to include autistic lore dumps.But I do agree the release schedule is an increasingly large issue. I don't know the first thing about producing these sorts of videos so it's not like I can offer any useful advice, except maybe downscaling the animation and video length. They could probably structure the videos to be shorter and release more quickly, or opt to release them in parts.
>>96725662Don't forget that we also had the Technocracy show up. Potentially.
>>96729289The Wyrm is not something True Faith can protect you from because just by existing, you accrue various influences from the Triat (and indeed - everything is a mix of them in varying degrees). Doing awful acts, any awful act from the largest atrocity to the smallest petty insult, can cause you to accrue Wyrm corruotion. And Banes are nothing but pure concentrated Wyrm corruption, with Skin Dancers being themselves particularly fucking awful even by evil woof standards. Trying to imbibe that whilst double-dipping in something as monstrous as skin dancing isn't something that any amount of true faith can resist because it's the sort of metaphysical stain that cannot be washed away, as you've fully aligned your existence to one of the fundamental principles of reality itself, one that has chosen to become the dissolution of all things.
>>96730021But my True Faith is my fanatical belief that I am an instrument of God who has been given a means of killing all werewolves by stealing moons, and so far, it’s working.So, nah, you’re wrong.
>>96730024No, Kronik. You are no "Wolf of God" and you raving about "THE DEVIL HERSELF" is a pretty good sign you've taken too many Wyrm Pills and need to be out down clean as a service to Gaia. Now get your abominable ass over here.
>>96730033You’re wrong.
>Big D confirms having personally known Fatigue's father>Kronik died in the 1920s>direct confirmation that Big D is far older than he seems>Amanda and Kitten don't react to this revelationwtf
>>96730047D is rapidly becoming the most annoying character in the show.I miss Boy and his cringe because, as a formerly cringe boy, I relate to him on multiple levels.
>>96730047Kitten was more concerned about Marckus and Amanda is a normie already coping with how truly nightmarish her reality is - of fucking course neither caught D directly confirming how old he actually is. In fact, D drops a lot of fucking hints at being fucking ancient throughout the episode (like his odd pause during the Mummy bit HINT HINT HINT) or knowing far too fucking much to just be blindly unaware like he so often claims and neither catch it because they're mostly concerned with their own shit and Amanda genuinely doesn't really know him well enough.It probably doesn't help either that a Bane was definitely fucking with their heads and they were only barely kept from spiraling by D himself.
>>96730060Him being a Mummy fits the most, considering how the Emperor in 40k canon is explicitly an immortal that has been alive ever since pre-history. It would even explain how he survives given all his jobbing. He just revives whenever shit hits the fan.
>>96728357Yeah, I'd have to agree. That ending wasn't good and left a foul taste in my mouth too. The lecture from the Philipino woman came out of no where and she unreasonably blamed Wernon for everything despite it being all Kronik's fault. For all intents and purposes the Nails got what they wanted and justice had been done. Kronik was dead and the children were returned. It would've made more sense if Wernon himself felt sorry for the orphans and the trouble Kronik caused and decided to help the Nails out on his own accord rather than being effectively forced into it. I'm also surprised Wernon didn't flat out say that "He was a Scholar" when questioned why he was on the expedition. This and also Wernon's embezzlement would've also reinforced the point or that the Arcanum can't sit on the sidelines much longer. Which was part of what Wernon was trying to tell Occam in his final message.>>96728418This is also a valid point.
>>96730079Haha yeah and that sucks>”Sir D, apparently there was an explosion at the Venture Tower! Something about the… Ankaran Sarcophagus? What is that?”“HUSH NOW, SON-IN-LAW!! Can you not see that I am attempting to put SOCKS onto the HEELS of BREAD to PREVENT the MANIFESTATION of FOOT FUNGUS?!”>”Sir D, I don’t think that—““AND BESIDES, the Sarcophagus is NOTHING to worry about, ahahahaha! I should know! Why, I SEALED IT MYSELF when I was BUT a wee rapscallion RUNNING AMOK like an active Akhenaten in my home town of Hattusa!”
>>96730079I'm a WoDlet, don't mummies also become progressively weaker over time? That would also explain why he keeps jobbing in every physical fight that breaks out.
>>96730100>don't mummies also become progressively weaker over time?That's CoD MummiesWoD mummies CAN get weaker over time if they lose memories or get slapped by the Judges of Ma'at, but don't inherently grow weaker over time.
>>96730089>It would've made more sense if Wernon himself felt sorry for the orphans and the trouble Kronik caused and decided to help the Nails out on his own accord rather than being effectively forced into it. I'm also surprised Wernon didn't flat out say that "He was a Scholar" when questioned why he was on the expedition. Wernon actively abetted the shit his father and uncles were doing until the evidence of their crimes and evil became too blatant to ignore. He flat-out did not UNDERSTAND what was wrong until Wayda sat his ass down and told him that life wasn't some childish adventure waiting for him - these were real people's lives he was trampling over for the sake of "adventure". There's also the recurring fact that Wyrm corruption doesn't fucking CARE how justified you are or how noble or how innocent you are of direct wrongdoing or even if you ultimately reject it; you were nearby, you were related, you aided in it even unknowingly, so your soul is stained. There's a fucking reason why the glies buzzed around Wernon throughout the episode, just as they buzzed around Kitten and the others in the chapter house. Wyrmic corruption does not go away just because you had no direct involvement in an atrocity.I really, really feel like most of the complaints being made about this episode are being made by people with zero understanding of WTA lore or why what Wernon ultimately resolved to do isn't the sort of thing he could run from, even ignoring the Nails potential angle in the situation.
>>96730107And the only reason they'd get slapped by Ma'at is by genuinely falling off the path of virtue, which is already pretty damn hard for them.
>W5 werewolf glyphsIt's so fucking over!
Damn, I'm honestly disappointed the werewolf lore drop didn't come from Marckus' perspective. It's obvious that Wernon's goal was to transform the Arcanum into a proper hunter organisation instead of just passive bystanders. He failed miserably. Occam himself called in the Coalition. He let the family secret fester for too long, and he felt he couldn't do anything about the Blacklaw's "deal with the devil". On another note. It's all but confirmed that the werewolves in Norfolk are going to get hammered. Coalition's going to have pentex ties in there somewhere. Big D and Kitten agree to aid in killing them them to bring Marckus back. They kidnapped a hunter and apparently didn't consider the consequences. Allying with the Coalition to save Marckus is a bad move long term. Especially as (From our outside perspective) the woofs might be willing to negotiate for his release for knowledge. The leader of the pack seems genuinely amenable to a peaceful option, considering how he stupidly left the Arcanum members alive when Matilda was ready to brutalise them all. Regent's best move here is to sit back and do fuck all, but she's going to know soon that she has a Kevin problem to deal with. It might cost her more to take him out now than to just leave him.
>>96730109All Wernon did was go around a document things in pursuit of his scholarly interests. He had no idea of Kronik's crimes and even accepted the tribe's request for 3 day's deliberation without complaint. When confronted with Kronik's crimes and his offer he out right rejected him. At most you could say he was an unwitting pawn in everyone's schemes but that does not make him guilty by mere association. Unless you are imagining his participation in events beyond what the series has related to us which makes even less sense.>There's also the recurring fact that Wyrm corruption doesn't fucking CARE how justified you are or how noble or how innocent you are of direct wrongdoing or even if you ultimately reject it; you were nearby, you were related, you aided in it even unknowingly, so your soul is stained.This is some Garou dog brained tier logic. The same kind of Logic that D railed against in the episode.
>>96730161You’re arguing with someone who got BTFO both here and on /co/ several hours ago. Save your energy. Everyone knows he’s an idiot.
>>96730161>This is some Garou dog brained tier logic. No, Garou dog brained logic would be "HE CONSORTED WITH WYRM FUCKERS SO HE HAS TO DIE TOO". Which is what Matilda did. Wyrm corruption being a stain on a person isn't Garou logic, it's a basic fact of the setting.>>96730166Retard.
>>96730161>He had no idea of Kronik's crimes and even accepted the tribe's request for 3 day's deliberation without complaint. Wernon didn't initially understand why the natives were resisting them, and only acquired once he believed they were making headway and the tribal elders would let them proceed after some time. He 100% bought Kronik's kool-aid and Wayda had to stress things to him to get him to understand.>>96730166There were multiple people in that thread telling you the exact same thing. It was not an opinion voiced by just one dude you disagreed with.
>>96730179Everyone on 4chan is the same person except for the posts I make. Sometimes the same person is reasonable because they take those balls off of their face and read what I say. Sometimes the same person just wants to act the faggot and posts stupid shit while sucking dick.It seems you are choosing to suck dick this morning.
>>96730186No, I think the only faggot here today is you. Maybe get your narcissism checked before spouting stupid shit then seething across two separate threads because nobody accepts your headcanon that Wernon was completely guilt-free despite literally following along like a dog with whatever his father wanted.
>>96724628I thought that was a Bane.
>>96730187I see you’re angry at your own father buttfucking you and you’re projecting your rage onto Kronik. After all, every boy knows better than to trust his father and uncles, since following them only results in being ass raped. Isn’t that right, you queer? If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were a writer in the team, considering you oh so easily understand their retarded gay perspective when us normal, well-adjusted heterosexuals are totally baffled by what the message of Wernon’s story is supposed to be.
>>96730161>The same kind of Logic that D railed against in the episode.D LITERALLY admitted that the Garou are right. He LITERALLY admitted that yes, the Garou have a point and yes, they're fighting for the sake of the world, but it's their METHODS he rails against; the bullheaded idiocy and killing their own allies because they act like rabid animals rather than people. For every sane Garou who thinks shit through before acting, there are a thousand feral beasts who do not understand context and do not discriminate between those who actively worship the Wyrm and those who only serve it by proxy because they work in a company that serves its interests for the sake of feeding their families.D fucking screams if in your face how even righteous anger and vengeance can ultimately let the Wyrm consume you and that Kitten being so blindly mad for the sake of Marckus, whilst coming from a good place, would destroy him or worse because "THE WORLD IS BAD". D has never disagreed with the Garou on the nature of what they fight or the fact that its corruption is ever-present and infests even the souls of good men. He disagrees with HOW they go about it.
>>96730201>sudden psychosexual schizoposting out of nowhereI was willing to agree with you, but then you went ahead and shot your own fucking point in the foot.
>>96730201It's really funny how schizos like this always, ALWAYS out themselves by sudden /pol/posting or projecting their degenerate family sex fantasies onto other people.
>>96730205>>96730208You weren’t ever going to agree with me because you hate me on an instinctual level. I don’t hate you, because you don’t know any better. You hate me because you can’t stand being wrong. Unfortunately, that’s not going to change, sonny.
>>96726287I feel the same way about "The Nephandi were in charge of the Technocrats the whole time."Like no, fuck off.
>>96730217Meds.
>>96730237Pentex OUT
>>96730170>No, Garou dog brained logic would be "HE CONSORTED WITH WYRM FUCKERS SO HE HAS TO DIE TOO".That is the point I'm trying to make. It's literally the same argument you just made in your previous post. You are saying he is guilty by association.>>96730179>He 100% bought Kronik's kool-aid and Wayda had to stress things to him to get him to understand.Yeah, that's kind of my point. He didn't know. He just wanted to study Werewolves. He didn't know about all the bad shit Kronik was doing. He didn't know the werewolves were keeping the vampires in check. He out right rejected becoming the heir of a his wyrm tainted father. All he did was to accept an offer from Kronik to go on an expedition to find werewolves and he jumped at the chance. That's it. His intents and actions were purely scholarly in nature.
>>96730304There’s a phrase you would have heard in school if you stayed in it: “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.” Fatigue invaded a country, displaced its people, desecrated a sacred site, and permanently altered the lives of innocent people because he followed his father. He doesn’t get off scot free for saying “I didn't know”. He genuinely deserved to die and Wayda spared him. That’s why he’s so thankful to her. That’s why he embezzled from the Arcanum. You aren’t agreeing with me, but you are so close to getting it unlike the schizo shitting up this thread. Don’t be like him.
I think we're all missing one crucial detail.D casually admitted to having fucked a werewolf.He also implied that he may have also fucked a werecat.
>>96730343>werewolfYeah, “Ross” the Black Spiral Dancer.>werecatYeah, Kitten—wait, no, hold on…
>>96730331>Fatigue invaded a country, displaced its people, desecrated a sacred site, and permanently altered the lives of innocent people because he followed his father.Except he literally did not do any of that. That was 100% all Kronik. Kronik killed the villagers, Kronik kidnapped the children, Kronik killed the parents, Kronik attacked the Nails, it was all Kronik. Even at the sacred site all Wernon did was take notes, photographs and audio records. One could hardly call any of those actions befouling. Did we watch the same episode?
>>96730399Archaeological/anthropological colonialism is still colonialism, why is this so fucking hard for /tg/ and /co/ to understand?
>>96730410>Archaeological/anthropological colonialism is still colonialism>Archeologist goes to a foreign land to study ancient foreign cultures/people>This is somehow colonialism.I guess Klaus Schmidt should'nt've bothered to dig up Göbekli Tepe.
It makes sense to me vampires would be prime racists viewing humanity in lineages and movements. I don't like ethnic clans because you want to play the exception.
>>96730457It implies the local community was too stupid or lazy to do it themselves, so yes, ignoring your sarcasm your statement is correct. Research the white man’s burden.
please let the next thread not be full of cringe
>>96730471You are probably the best troll I've seen on 4chan in the longest time. In which case I commend you for being a better class of troll then what we normally get on this site these days.
>>96730512I can’t take all the credit. First I needed to bait the guy with an unusual hatred for Wernon. Once I learned and understood his posting style, I just needed to wait for him to leave this thread. He compulsively posted on /co/ with a cross board link which made it obvious he was too angry to continue here. Then it was just a matter of posting similarly to him while also making value claims that seem reasonable at first, but have a hint of deranged logic that encourages people to post a response.My laptop is broken and I just have my phone, so I’m pretty fucking bored while waiting on repairs. It’s nothing personal, I just have nothing better to do.
>>96730457Wernon DOES comment about taking things they found back home to the museums and jokes that King Tut won't be alone for long, so he was fine with taking their shit from them even though they wanted him to fuck off.He was a good guy at heart who was clearly raised by the Anglo, but it doesn't make him totally guiltless.
>>96730021>The Wyrm is not something True Faith can protect you fromThis is objectively wrong. Banes recoil from TF even harder than vampire. Jesus just passively existing prevented any banes from coming within 100 miles of his area according to the garou(who took advamtage of that to fuck up some uber-banes that suddenly got kicked out of their home turf)
>>96729469>D is a reliable narrator for loreExcept he isn't. Anyone who get into wod from htp is going to quickly realize D is a fucking retard. The fact alfa's team went with an entirely homebrew metaplot shot any chance at accuracy in the dick.
>>96729367They are probably one with the second lowest population amongst the beast courts. Not sure if this is me misremembering shit.
>>96730491Every thread is this cringey. The people here are some of the biggest mouth breathers on the internet.
>>96730350>>96730343Gotta hand it to Big “There’s Not A Homosexual Alive I Cannot Sway” D, if his son is from Black Furies (those are the greek amazon warrior priestess, right?) he deserves a pat on the back and a kick in the dick. He is a big man, a strong man, a resourceful man, i do not think even a werewolf could force him to sire a child. He chose to have intercourse for the purposes of reproduction with a Garou from a Tribe famous for its non-traditional views on gender roles and its distaste for the male sex. He knew that there was a risk his child would be a boy and get mistreated on that island. I won’t yet blame D for Russ ending up as a Black Spiral, but his chances of getting corrupted are much smaller if he has a pleasant childhood and you don’t see that in Black Furies families
>>96730721No shit?
>>96730738D being a very irresponsible father is not exactly a new revelation.
Hi I'm from /co/ and I wanted to try and get some more information about werewolvesIs being retarded really their defining trait? It's all anyone is saying about them in the Hunter the Parenting thread over in /co/
>>96731111Except it’s not funny when he’s the primary source of information. Big Daddy E being horribly uninformed about current politics but still acting like a know it all and his incompetence causes problems is funny. Big D being supposedly incredibly informed due to being hundreds of years old but also being massively incompetent isn’t funny, it’s annoying.
>>96730739No, sorry. I was having a diabetic attack, I don't know why I said that :(
>>96731174Not that familiar with werewolf, but my understanding:Werewolves are defined by Rage, the primal fury that brings them victory in battle against the forces of corruption, and Gnosis, the faith and spiritualism that allows them to deal with spirits and earn their favor.So at their best, werewolves are warriors that nurture a part of the world often overlooked in modern nights and fight the enemies trying to destroy, corrupt or ravage the world.And at their worst, their spiritualism leads them to overlook or look down on the more mundane facts of life, or their rage leads them to fights that aren't warranted at all.This isn't helped by the fact that they are primary warriors and some problems can't be solved by violence. Or by issues caused by previous generations, be it species meant to help them but which were rendered extinct by their ancestors, or tribes that are still carrying grudges from the colonial era, or the tribe of noble leaders finding out that inbreeding miiiight not have been the best choice their predecessors could have made after all if the way they're being born now is any indication.
Is Dementation's effect on non-Malkavian users of the Discipline something that changes from edition to edition?I was pretty sure I had heard somewhere that learning Dementation drove you insane, but apparently that's not the case in V20:>Though it’s the natural legacy of the Malkavians, practitioners of Dementation need not actually be mad to use the Discipline… but it helps.So now I'm curious whether it's something that changes depending on source or edition or if wherever I first read it was just outright wrong.
>>96731174Mechanically, they are not retarded. They can be as smart as the smartest humans are. However, a third of their entire existence revolves around the power to rip shit up. A spiritual force called Rage which powers their shapeshifting abilities and physical prowess. It's like if every hunter was implanted with a bomb that's primed to go off if their fear response spikes too high. Their ability to detect imbalance is about as precise as a sledgehammer, because they are slow to change and respect tradition too much and the Garou Nation is still divided on many big issues. They are fighting a war to protect reality, but have a general instinct to point at anything they don't like and go "that's the enemy". That's why they're retarded. It's just a big whole mess. The war is real. The end of reality is real. The methods the Garou choose to fight this calamity often have horrible long term consequences. From stopping the impergium to starting the impergium to the War of Rage to the War of Tears to the White Howlers entering that damn pit to having one of their most important spiritual weapons be a THING DESIGNED EXCLUSIVELY TO KILL OTHER GAROU.And yet Wyrm corruption is real, and we have actual arguments in this thread about what should count as "of the Wyrm" and "of the Weaver" and "of the Wyld", now imagine doing that but every fucking part of you is telling you to KILL THAT FUCKING TRAITEROUS MORON HE IS AN ENEMY OF GAIA I WILL SEND MY NET SPIDERS AT HIS IP ADDRESS AND-
>>96731457*TRAITOROUS" Whoops
>>96731457>KILL THAT FUCKING TRAITEROUS MORON HE IS AN ENEMY OF GAIA I WILL SEND MY NET SPIDERS AT HIS IP ADDRESS AND-(USER WAS LIQUIDATED FOR THIS POST)Respect Our Truth, woof.
>>96731174What do you get when you try to write superpowered shapechangers as nature's guardians in real life where nature constantly gets fucked? For beings like Garou to work in a real life setting, they have to be retardedOne of my complaints about WoD honestly, it shouldn't mirror real world 100%
>>96731174No, their defining trait is definitely their anger (mechanically called Rage). It just so happens that it's hard to be smart while also being really angry, so yeah they kinda dumb. They were also purposefully made to be soldiers, unlike the various other shapeshifters who were made to fill other jobs. So they're a big angry hammer, and everything starts to look like a nail.
>>96725309qrd on this guy?
>/wodg/>look inside>arguing about youtubeslop and politics
>>96731723hello time traveler, what is the world like 10 years from now?
>>96731723>everything is political whether you like it or not>...no no not that way STOP BEING POLITICAL YOU CHUDS
>>96731850Self parody, get actual beliefs
>>96730158>A Kevin problemPretty likely that he's going to show up more often now that Pentex found him as well
>>96731928Oh no the two best characters in the show are going to get more screen time how could this have happened
>>96731179>massively incompetentHe just seems to be caught unaware most of the times tbf, his actual talking skills and overall proactivity I think is rather competent. I suppose you can say it's incompetent to not expert Marcus to do something incredibly retarded with materials left out in the name of research but when you're a 1000 year old immortal I guess memories like that seem relatively small scale
>>96731448I suppose that just means dementation is harder to use for characters that aren't actually mad
>>96731960>Kevin and Guy Murderman showing up moreBased>more likely to die or end up out of the actionNot basedKevin is so good he really deserves his own episodes
>>96729143>>96729168>>96729310It's a shame since VtMB is a great introduction to what makes street level WoD so damn appealing. We love and hate all the lorewank here, but VtMB's best tool beyond its excellent dialogue trees is knowing what not to say, and when lore is worth dishing out. It's why playing the newbie in the setting is the best way to introduce the world as a whole, not just in VtM, but in any WoD splat.What bothers me about VtMB2 is that its clearly frontloaded and focusing on power wank, like a several hours long tutorial and everything, because not only does it have to teach you the fundamentals of what a vampire is and all the powers you now got, but also all the fuckton of lore that'd be behind elders. It'd make no sense to play a elder and not know how the world works, unless amnesia was part of it, which Im pretty sure it will be. It's why you no longer get to define who your character is anymore, it's instead defined for you and you get to 'learn' who your character is I assume through flashbacks and other bullshit. Takes all the character building and tosses it out the window, we a movie now.
>>96732033Yeah, what was wrong with playing a fresh victim of a mass Embrace that has to learn everything about the fucked up new life he's now living?
>>96732064Your average goymercattle needs action and explosions 10 minutes into the game or else they'll go play the latest AAA slop
>>96731965How can I explain this…I can’t understand D’s character. It’s true that he loves his family. But if he loves his family, why is he forcing them to become hunters? Well, it’s because he wants them to be prepared to fight the evil in the world. But why would evil try to kill them? Well, it’s because of what his family knows. But if he never tells them anything how are they learning enough to be considered targets? Well, they don’t actually know enough to be targeted by a blood hunt. Then why are they in danger? Well, because D is taking them on hunts. Why is he taking them on hunts and putting them in danger? Well, so they can be prepared to fight evil when it comes looking for them. Is danger looking for them? Well, no, because…And at this point, I hit a circular logic loop. I don’t understand D. He seems to be the orchestrator of his own problems, which was fine when he was the Emperor. The entire setting there is “humanity needs something to believe in to keep going” and the Emperor tried to kill faith entirely (after 4e made the setting good, of course). The point of Hunter is that you’re fighting a war where everyone is bigger than you and trying to kill you. The setting is local, and supposed to be grounded, and that makes D significantly less appealing to me. It’s one thing to have your genetically modified demigod son turn traitor because you didnt tell him about your secret inter dimensional space elf prostitute tunnels and he broke them. It’s another to yell at your son for wanting to know why a beloved old man was gibbed right under everyone’s nose.I just don’t understand D.
>>96732080>Is danger looking for them? Well, noDo we know that danger isn't looking for them? Big D seems like the kind of guy that important supernatural figures might want dead
>>96732080>But if he never tells them anything how are they learning enough to be considered targets?Thye don't really need to know shit. Family is usually a weakpoint for people who aren't psychopaths. They could do all kinds of shit to them in order to lure him out. To take out a hunter you must think like one.
>>96731457>>96731483Yeah I really like how garou are portrayed as righteous fuckups who are a hammer with no other tools to assist them because the hammer stupidly thought no other tools were needed and smashed them all. They have a righteous and noble cause, but they were inherently selfish enough to think they are the only ones who can fix it and to kill all other options, and now their latest generation is left with a worse problem and having to work against their very nature to do any real good for their cause is a constant struggle. Like sure, you can just destroy your problems, but that's doomed to only make your enemy smarter and stronger and leave you with fewer allies, just like it did with every other war the garou fought in.A PENTEX base is being build nearby your caren, what do you do? Smash it? Good job stupid, now they are blaming terrorists for it, got public support, and are getting extra funding to bring even worse fumori and bioweapons to that base as its rebuilt, with more eyes on it so you can't as easily smash it anymore. What now, smash it again? Cool, you manage it, but now you've lost half a dozen garou in the raid and are weaker, and they just got even more funding and are bringing kill squads in. You can't afford another raid, and they are thrice as strong as they when they were initially a problem.The painful thing for garou is that the best way to permanently take out a PENTEX base like that is through getting support of the humans, but how do you do that when humans fear you genetically, and how do you contain your rage while trying to sway the other side? Hell, how do you get other garou to follow that plan instead of going back to smashing? That's what makes garou so interesting to me, like they got a goal, but their base instincts to destroy is so innate to them that they have to actively fight it to get anything accomplished, and we've seen how successful they are at it.
>>96732100>>96732114If it’s looking for Big D, why would he create a family that would be endangered by whatever is hunting him? Selfishness? Fine, I can buy that. Maybe he narcissistically thinks he’s Yuujiro Hanma and is creating super warriors because the D bloodline is superior. Fine, I can buy that, too. But I wouldn’t buy either if he’s supposed to be incredibly compassionate as well. I can’t buy a compassionate narcissist.
>>96732123And then W5 removed kinfolkStill the funniest thing>Hey guys what if we smash the building and then tell our family members to pool resources to buy up the land so pentex can't have it through force or legal bullshit?>Our what now? Kin? Family? What the fuck is this mutt on about?
>>96732129Anon, he's basically "What if God Emperor but hunter". He's literally making the same mistakes as Big E.
>>96732033>>96732064for one>Paradoxhas pretty shit taste and thinks partially due to mediocre reception to the thinblood plot that players WANT to be high power or someshit as well as suffering from sequel-itisfor two>Chinese RoomHas none of the writers or lore guys of the originally and are basically secondaries so they don't fight back at all when Paradox demands you play as a super cool vampire inclusive powerhouse or something. It's basically that the universe aligned to make a worse product partially because Paradox is cheap and is afraid of considering talent that might actually have made sense (ZAUM pre split, Larian, Owlcat, CDPR, anyone actually competent).It all boils down to Paradox wanted to have it's inclusivity cake and eat it too while also not exercising any discretion in analyzing the original game or the source material
>>96732129Couldn't he have made his extensive family before something fucked up happened?We know that something is looking for Marckus, at leastI never watched TTS, but apparently the big fuck working for Pentex is likely another of his sons, so obviously there are more events that influenced his decisions in that regard
>>96732080I think the character will make more sense when his backstory starts to be introduced and explained more than meme references, he's explaining to his family the supernatural so that they don't fall victim to it a similar way his older families or himself has I figure
>>96732152Ironic how W:tA is both smart for kinfolk but also problematic for kinfolk. There's no winning with trying to make things appeal to the lowest common denominator or liberals like that unless there's already massive normie appeal, and since WoD isn't about fruitcake superheroes like DnD it doesn't really have normie appeal
>>96732154And I already stated that D works in TTS because at least his sons and Custodians can deal with most threats thrown at them. Regular human beans are fragile in WoD so D’s antics aren’t funny or full of hubris, they’re insane.>>96732160>>96732163If he’s hundreds of years old, why did he only wait to have kids in the last 50 years, and why are things hunting him in the past 20? What about the previous hundreds of years? If he’s not an immortal, how does he know so much? There’s too many contradictions for me to be satisfied with.To be perfectly clear, I know I’m not owed any explanations. This is just my feeling.
>>96732179>contradictionsThese aren't contradictions, they're questionsWe have no idea what his deal is
>>96732179>wait to have kids in the last 50 yearsWe don't know that for sure as the oldest we know of are>Marcus's older biological bro>Door>Ross (potentially)If we're banking on the theory that every TTS character may come back as a different splat or otherwise then he's likely had a lot more kids over the years as I believe it's been stated earlier in the series
>>96732152>>96732178Yeah I've yet to see a W5 game that doesn't keep kinfolk lmao, it was so dumb to remove them when they were the only thing really keeping garou goals feasible.I get the idea behind removing them somewhat: Where garou have to actually form bonds and relationships with humans to gain those resources and avoid the 'abusive spouse/slave' angle, but kinfolk rebelling is just as much of the lore too. Like, if you have close allies among humans in W5, to the point where they are loyal to your cause, those may as well be kinfolk. And if you abuse those people, it's more likely they will rebel and sell you out. So why the hell do you need to remove the title of kinfolk in the first place when it can just as easily mean 'ally to garou' as it does 'humans with wolf blood'? Makes no fucking sense to me.
can we reach 600
>>96732123Honestly, the whole "Only I can save the world" mentality is what holds other splats back. >Wolfs are too autistic to change>Hunters literally don't know shit outside of monster bad>Mages are too busy with their grand schemes to botherAs gay as it sounds, talking it out would literally be the best option
>>96732192ironic the whole abusive spouse/slave angle might actually just make it appeal to a certain demographic of gooners
>>96732219I think this is maybe why the PC's are supposed to usually be relatively fresh and also more reasonable than most of the established npcs
>>96732240I mean, I would become pretty jaded if I spent decades trying to make a difference and got absolutelty nothing. Can't really blame some npcs
>>96732219>>96732240I think that's kind of the point yeah, usually the best solution is diplomacy and understanding, but the old guard of those splats have dug their heels into their tradition of fucking up that the only ones who really can do anything and try are the new generation. Garou, hunters, and mages all have the capacity to work together and accomplish great things, but you also have to convince each side to do so, and on a grand scale that is incredibly difficult to do. Sure, you convince the local sept and the local hunter org to work together, but what happens when the red talons or an ultra catholic hunter org hear wolves are working with humans and go to try to destroy that alliance? What happens if the others think the mages can't be trusted? That's the shit usually holding them back, while by comparison their enemies are far more united.Plus I feel it makes those cross splat relationships between PCs more meaningful when all the dumbass NPCs can't see past their own baggage to do the same.
>>96732219Talking it out would be great but it would also make things a bit too bright and happy. I think the whole thing about splats refusing to work together no matter what was always intended. Garou never change (meaningfully) change their ways, bigger hunter groups are either soulless government machines or had that though squashed early on (like the SoL with the Sanbenito) and the Technocracy views themselves above working with reality deviants and using sleepers as anything other than disposable assets.
>>96732314Yeah what I like about WoD is that it's dark and bleak, but it isn't grimdark. There IS hope to fix things and diplomacy and talking it out is possible, but there are also, realistically, a lot of other factors out there that makes those large scale alliances fleeting. A red talon decides to stage a coup, a hunter org betrays them for PENTEX cash, etc. But the street level changes and alliances, those can stick and can still matter. A local sept and hunter cell form an alliance that could last for decades, perhaps learning to be good friends in their good fights as they have eachother's backs in protecting their small town. It's those little pockets of optimism for a better future that matter the most even if the world isn't fixed. Maybe not as grand and sweeping of a solution, but a baby step towards a better tomorrow.
>>96732343>It's those little pockets of optimism for a better future that matter the most even if the world isn't fixed. Maybe not as grand and sweeping of a solution, but a baby step towards a better tomorrow.I agree, the idea of small groups slowly coming to a mutual understanding is a neat idea. Also, as much as it wouldn't suit the tone of Wod, I like to think of a theoritical scenario where the Garou-Hunter-Mage alliance would happen. Of course, Pentex would also need to ally themselves with others in order to make things more interesting as opposed to: The good guys killed all the bad guys, The End.
>>96731723>Everything I don't like is slopZoomer brainrot and it's consequences
>>96732178>and since WoD isn't about fruitcake superheroesBetween Werewolf, Mage, and Mummy, it could've fooled me.
>>96732781Still a pretty different brand from DnD between the Mexican orcs and other
>>96731723>discussing a fan series about WoDI'll be honest, despite my issues with it, I still find it preferable to the official stuff Paradox is putting out there. In fact, my issues with it are making me want to put out my own WoD fanseries. The only problem is my table runs a highly custom mashup of oWoD and nWoD, and I don't know if anyone would actually be interested in that.
If I may, while Big D being a Mummy (though I'd personally prefer some sort of Mortal+ or Sorcerer with that Immortality merit) is fairly plausible, it's getting to the point where Hunter: the Parenting could feel like false advertisement where supernatural protagonists are more common than mundane human ones.
>>96732796That's basically what these guys are doing anyway
>>96732835The original Hunter had hunters being supernatural, even then you only have Marcus and D engaging in supernatural shit. That's basically 5 (including occam, guy, and kevin) protagonist characters out of maybe 10 or more depending how much of the chapter house is protag-tier or NPC
>>96732871No they're doing oWoD with WoD5-isms thrown in. I'm talking oWoD + nWoD.
>>96732881If you mean Hunters Hunted, yes that book had the Children of Osiris or Christopher Barrow, but I don't think it's quite the same. HH was an antagonist book first, player character resource second. Don't forget how boy is probably some sort of destiny child. It's slanting heavily towards supernatural characters over regular hunters and it's starting to feel like they used the term Hunter to trick people into watching a very goofy cross-splat vomit.
>>96732796you can just file the serial numbers off of it and call it an original setting if you really must
>>96733003Eh filing the serial numbers off always makes things feel disingenuous. It's not a WoD-inspired setting, it's a custom mashup of two WoD settings, and I don't wanna change the terms we've all been using for years at the table. Besides which, Dark Pack is fine with using older editions as long as you're not making vidya, at least, that was the case last I checked.
What would you like to see in a world of darkness CRPG?
>>96733063Anything as long as it's not WoD5
>>96733063>actual character stats determining dialogue and some story beat changes>failure doesn't mean you immediately start combatI think the only WoD CRPG style that would actually function well would be like Disco Elysium with a bit more combat. Combat rules in general and character HP is rather pitiful in WoD that you'd have to change up a lot of the rules the way Bloodlines did
>>96732910>No they're doing oWoD with WoD5-ismsAnd the difference is...?WoD is a horribly executed blending of wod and cofd itself.
>>96730170Maybe in W5 where Philodoxes don't know how to be Philodoxes.
>>96733063Yes, but not CoD or WoD5, and they won't sign off on anything but the latter.
>>96733333>wasted fucking quintsI weep. CofD is a separate but closely related game, WoD5 is a skinsuit of oWoD.
>>96733063>Use mostly WoD20 rules with some sprinklings of WoD5 mechanics. Stick to WoD20 lore but progress it how it would be by modern day, or set the game in like 2004 or something.>Don't just do fucking vampires again, in fact, have the CRPG be multi-splat, with hunters, wolves, vampires, and wraiths all being playable. Have all factions have the same plotline they are following, but from different perspectives and with different outcomes.>Use turn based combat based on the WoD system. Its the only way to feasibly use all of the above splats without overworking the devs.>Make joining other supernatural factions a possibility, both in terms of alliances and in terms of getting embraced or dying and becoming a wraith.>Use the same set of NPCs for all paths, but how you interact with them differs based on who you play. Garou allies can be a hunter's enemy, and those strange occurrences that guide you to helpful clues in a vampire path could be full characters in the wraith path.>No faction is kill on sight, and you can feasibly become friends with other faction NPCs and just as likely become enemies with faction NPCs that were initially on your side. This allows for possible endings like a gangrel being accepted among garou, a hunter becoming a vampire to destroy it from within, a wraith taking over a hunter's body, etc.BG3 already proved this style of gameplay is not only feasible but something people have a demand for, so it baffles me that it hasnt been tried for WoD before.
>>96733615>>96733615>>96733615new
>>96733532>no argumentThe quint speaks the truth.
