Thread titleWhy did they get so steamed about the whole thing, fighting slavery is like 80% of the plot hooks in a fantasy game. There were entire prestige classes and campaigns built around that.I mean like if the bad guys don't do slavery and aren't racist / homophobic, what do they do that's actually bad
Them being visibly present makes it very hard to keep players from participating on the side of the slavers, which is one of the greatest sins possible by the pseudo-ethics of Paizo's primary ideological base.
>>96728048Yeah but that's the choice of the PCs
>>96727985I wonder if Homare accepts English commissions
>>96728119You could try, but sadly he mostly does non-pornographic art these days as he's been working for Marvel and DC.
>>96727985Because they believe depiction is endorsement. Don't try to square that circle with any of the other shit they depict, it's not a logical decision.
>>96728161That's fucking retarded
>>96727985They are so woke their brains literally fell out. Its hard to figure out why progs do what they do, consider the fact that Villains in leftist media, even though they are Villains, will never "misgender" a Troon character. They want troons so normalised that the likes of Darth Vader and Sauron wouldn't even think to deadname a troon.
>>96728220It's really weird when a villain is supposedly evil as shit, but he's never racist, misogynist or homophobic. That's the very strange kind of evil that reeks of modern sensibilities. >"Gok'mok the Defiler would NEVER disrespect trans women!"
>>96727985They are a corporation that makes decisions purely on what they think will make them the most money.
>>96727985because americans are slaves dumb shit, they don't want them to figure it out
>>96727985It was the final solution to the Elf Slave Wat Do threads.
>>96728216Of course it's retarded you're replying to bait in the bait thread
>>96728229It's more of a safespace thing. You wouldn't want Darth Vader to rape corpses of children, even if that would make him more clearly evil. It would an aftertaste.Granted, it IS pretty strange to stop at slavery specifically (way more than being homofobic, ironically enough), but I don't think it's the principle that's strange, more the application.
>>96728220remember that dude who said darth vader would never approve of any of his troops raping or abusing womensome people just live in different worlds
>>96728307You think he was looking down at those dismembered younglings in the jedi temple thinking unclean thoughts??
>>96728312I mean, that would be an interesting question. WOULD he care? A lot of rape on battlefields happens out of the purview of the higher-ups, because it has no tactical benefit, and is a distraction that can lead to insubordination. I think there’s an interesting question of how much villains would care about these things for reasons beyond personal morality.
>>96728322Why the fuck not anon. Why the fuck not.
>>96728101They don't want the PCs making the wrong choice.Its an media-industry wide shift, you see it in video games and movies/tv too.
>>96728312Darth Vader's mother was raped to death by savages and exacting bloody revenge on them was his first big step toward the Dark Side. It's quite believable that he would summarily execute Stormtroopers for it without a thought.
>>96728327>>96728360I'm sure he'd not tolerate it from the 501st or anyone on the Executor or Avenger, but I can't imagine even Anakin "I should be able to stop people from dying" Skywalker being enough of a control freak to think he can stamp it out across the whole imperial military
>>96728327DV himself is your usual anal-retentive figure and he would care (hell, I don't see him particulary happy to randomly let civilians suffer), but he doesn't control the army as a whole.Still, I mean, even nazi command KINDA didn't let soldier do everything. Can't see the army condone it by principle.
>>96728390>(hell, I don't see him particulary happy to randomly let civilians suffer)This is a hard one to pin down. He definitely tolerates the massacre of civilians and the suffering of people, but he's usually got some kind of tactical or esoteric reason for it. He also lets his head get away from him so I bet if, like, a kid had thrown a cow pie at him during a parade or something like that he'd tear the crowd apart.
>>96728101Whoa there, that is just not what RPG's are about in the current year. Players are supposed to be making self inserts that fulfil their kinkiest desires.
>>96728352Yeah, you can depict Bad Thing in media where the writer has total control over the narrative and can ensure only the moral message is delivered to audiences. In media where consumers have some control over the narrative, like in games, the risk that they might enjoy Bad Thing incorrectly and thereby normalize Evil is too great.
>>96728400The closest thing I can remember to him doing a "free for all" atrocity is Alderaan, which IS an atrocity (and possibly one pretty edgy even for the empire) but the people there at least were vaporized. So, I dunno. I would guess he could very well stop before, I don't fucking know, starve a planet or something.
>>96728464Alderaan was also not his idea, it was Tarkin's. But it was a solution they settled on after torturing a princess didn't get them the results they wanted, so it's a difference of kind rather than degree.In AotC Anakin specifically identifies killing the women and children of the tusken tribe as being different and worse than killing the men, that's more the way I think he justifies atrocities. He would have landed the ship on the protestors like Tarkin did, for example.
>>96728327He probably would care, he was probably raped as a slave, and his mom was 100% raped by the sand people. A lot of people forget Vader is more broken than evil
>>96728437What if my kinky desire is a slave girl harem?
>>96728464He did also kill all those jedi kids. By the time of the original movies, Vader is perfectly fine with mass murder, since it's a line he's crossed multiple times.Slavery and rape almost certainly less so. But we also see that slavery seems to be alive and well on Tatooine, so if Vader didn't even manage to stamp it out on his home planet, then he clearly can't care about it that much.
>>96728853Between Tatooine, Coruscant, and Mustafar he's never been in any occupation where he doesn't call his superior "Master"
You know you can depict it in your own home game, right OP? No one's stopping
>>96728853Is so weird to add "kills a bunch of children" to his lore and still make him a good force ghost...
>>96728220>>96728322>>96728360prequels aren't canon
>>96728957It's been almost 30 years. You need to move on.
>>96728220Technically, Anakin Skywalker is his dead name and he specifically calls out his son for using it
>>96728903I think it's just the principle of the matter that Paizo - who developed part of their reputation on having a game darker than D&D - would become so sissified as to remove a theme that serves as such an obvious "that's the bad guy, go kick his ass" from their sourcebooks
>>96728992That's fair. I think it's lame too.
>>96727985They're bringing back Dark Sun and the same faggots who insisted slavery was problematic in RPGs have tried to spin New WotC product as an amazing thing because the players get to be the noble down-trodden working class heroes who get to be awesome by ending slavery and killing slavers. A thing that has been common in RPGs for half a fucking century.
>>96727985Performatively woke.
>>96729177WotC has always been just hypocritical about this, they keep ritualistically lamenting about how the old D&D was and is racist, sexist and problematic, but still gladly keep profiting of it.
>>96729585They also like to bring back old settings like Dragonlance, that people liked for the classic-feeling Larry Elmore art and neo-trad design, then they turn it into afroslop and cry that it was unsuccessful.
>>96728390Vader would probably expect discipline. As long as that is followed and what he orders done is done fast, he wouldn't care what happens out of his sight.
>>96727985They haven't removed it from the setting in the new books. I get the feeling you just read rage bait from this thread a year ago, and then you had something like a LSD flashback to the rage bait just now.
>>96728048>participating on the side of the slaversBasedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZxMDZ3TdZM
>>96727985Thankfully I just add slavery back in, then play as a slaver. It's fun.
We opened our kingdom in KM to slavers for profits. Woke gm was screaming
Thread theme (Fitting): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM
>>96728788Then I would call you a safe horny basic bitch.
Should slaves be used for work or sex?
>>96728119I got quite good with AI models, and in particular Homare based one.What do you want? Describe me the character and i will see what can be done
>another stealth politics thread by no games wanting to argue for arguments sake
>>96728957nah, they're fine, disney wars is non-canon now
>>96727985>homophobicYou're not getting away equating homo hate with actual cruelty fag.
>>96727985>Fictional beings abused>Readers most affectedWe're reaching our next human psychosis point where we kill each other again.
>>96728253Correct answer but the real question becomes>why do they think that completely removing slavery from their settings (but keeping torture, murder and other bad things) will make them more money?
One of my favorite PCs is a nixie who goes absolutely scorched-earth on slavers. Burning down their homes, hanging them from trees, organizing lynch mobs, smuggling slaves to safe nations, if you're running a slave auction you better have guards armed to the teeth because she's going to be there with a big barrel of smoking gunpowder and a catapult within the hour.And she has a very, very loose definition of "slavery".Can't be the abolitionist hero because WAAAAAAAAAHHHH now.
>>96730930I'd let a Nixie hang Me.
>>96730930Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.
>>96728961Even if the entire world has moved on I will never move on. Prequels aren't canon, sequels aren't canon.
>>96730930I really liked the Royal Navy anti slavery patrols. >hey our guys could use some practice to keep them sharp>lets take our prospective young officers that are agressive and independent enough to be future frigate captains>give them a ship, crew, guns , then send them to go and fuck shit up >oh, and prize rules kinda-sorta apply, so any ship they capture makes them and their crew hefty dose of cash >fuck shit up they do with gusto. And if they are bored they will also raid local shore based slave factories and burn them down. Or visit local tribe chief and say >oi, mate, cool it with the slave business, or we will check if we can play "rule britannia" using our cannons against your royal mud hut>because that what you get when you send bunch of pretty much unsupervised dudes selected for initiative and aggresion so they might have a taste of some action and independent command>also lot of slaver ships belong to the guys from nations we dont like, so even if we are not currently at war with them, thats still another bonuI mean other than the usual hardship of tropical station fa away from home, shit was profitable, got you real life experience and promotions, was objectively morally righteous, and could allow navy to asses their young officers in action. Everyone profits (except the slave traders, but fuck them)
>>96728307>calling me by my actual name is literally the same as raping the corpses of childrenlooney troons really do be thinkin this huh
>>96728957
>>96727985My guess is that they got older. When you were a teenager it was prolly fun to play Call of Duty and scream obsenities while watching someone's head explode in graphic detail. You get older and the testosterone mellows out a little, get your sanity back and your childish impulse for violence under control. And you ask "is this really what I want to be entertained by?"It's not immoral. Like what you like. But for lots of people, we grow up and wanna be better.
>>96727985It's like the problem of making an anti-war film. You can't do it, because any depiction of war also glorifies it. "There's no such thing as an anti-war film" is a known problem in filmmaking.The same issue applies to stuff like slavery in RPGs. No matter the subject, if you depict it, someone is going to think it's cool and a good idea, and therefore the RPG writers become responsible for that. The only way to avoid that is to not depict it all all.I don't agree with it, but there is a logical thought process behind it.
>>96727985Yeah, Chaosium tried to do something similar with Glorantha, in their expanded Equipment manual bizarrely after they had already established in the core book, actual prices for slaves - there was this weird little inset that "There is no slavery in Glorantha" - and I'm like "Wut, mate, I have the core book from this same edition that lists the prices for an adult man, woman or child".It's fucking ridiculous, because slavery and rebellion have been one of the recurring themes of the setting, as it's more or less a fantasy bronze-Age world.I literally got banned from facebook for chewing the developers out for being so stupid, and violating their own product for woke points.Wasn't long after Greg Stafford died.Shame about the edition overall; it it clunky and overdesigned.RQ classic is better streamlined, more versatile and more playable.
>>96731505You sound like a faggot.It's not the fact that you have differing tastes - that's fine.But it's the implicit smugness of the assertion that being squeamish and a prude is part of "growing up".You are a wet shit.
>>96731525I agree with most of this, and it's what I'm saying here: >>96731505The part I don't agree with is the part where you think it necessarily includes an ethical calculation. I don't think it does. Does it glorify war, or slavery or whatever? I mean of course no one is saying "wow don't watch Saving Private Ryan because you'll think war is good." But you do ask yourself "do I really wanna get entertained by making it look cool?" It doesn't have to be an ethical judgement. It can just be "that seems gross and I'd rather focus on something else, instead.">>96731547>But it's the implicit smugness of the assertion that being squeamish and a prude is part of "growing up".Sorry if you feel singled out by it, anon. But yes: young men have a natural, immature propensity for violence because of raging hormones that really does mellow out as people get towards their late 20s and early 30s. That's just how our brains develop. I'm not being smug about it--just honest.
>>96728957I respect it, assuming you mean 1977 only. In that case, you should check out the official radio play adaptation that came out before Empire: it gets a lot more graphic about Vader's torture of Leia and is a clear vision of the original idea of the character.
>>96728788You will hire courtesans, pay them liveable wages and you will like it.
>>96731567>I am a grownup>My games of pretend are MATURE and about thigs like TAX RETURNS and PANIC ATTACKSLike I said; Boring Faggot.
>>96731607That's not what I said at all, anon. It's part of growing up. I'm not at all claiming "ha ha I'm better than you because you're in your late teens/early 20s." I'm claiming "human bodies change as we age, and are brains are part of our bodies." Again: like the thing you like. I'm not making a moral judgement about it. You're gonna get older and find violence less appealing, just like every other man on earth who lives into his 30s.
>>96731525But slavery IS cool and good. I don't see the issue. There's no such thing as a civilization which wasn't built of the labor of people who don't matter.
>>96731615I'm thirty three, and you sound fucking gay and smarmy.Get over yourself, you jackanape, and smash some rape-goblins together whilst making sticky wet mouth-noises, like a real man.I'll do the voices.>"Oh no mister Space Marine, please don't rape my asshole!">"NO FEAR CITIZEN; FOR I CLEAVE ONLY UNTO THE EMPEROR, BUT HAVE YOU HAD YOUR PROSTATE EXAMINED FOR HERESY?">*THWOCK SLORPH SMUSH RRRRRRIP!*This is what we do here.Be it a playground for the developmentally delayed or no.Look at it.LOOK AT IT!I will hold your face to the fire!You boring smarmy shitwipe!
>>96731641I'm sorry you feel so defensive and attacked. Since I'm not attacking you? I really can't help you with that, anon.Except to point out that maybe your ultra-aggressive response to intentionally misunderstand someone else and feel violent towards them is... a little bit? Illustrating my point.
>>96731646I don't want you to apologise, I want you to call me a cunt back and get on with it, you insufferable spunk-puddle.If this interaction meant anything to you at all, it is just another sign of taking things too seriously.Fish your testicles from out your torso cavity, from whence they have retreated.
>>96731666>I want you to call me a cunt back and get on with itI have absolutely no desire to do that, anon. Sorry.
>>96731671Then you are once more, taking it all too seriously, you daft ugly sadboy.>Can't even call me a cuntWhat sort of worthless excuse for a man are you?Go sit with the menopause crowd; they'll teach you how to be "mature".
>>96731696You know, it's ironic that you pretended to get offended in the first place, because you thought I was judging you for having different taste than I do. As you spew invectives about "being a real man" for liking different things than you do.Give it some though, anon.
>>96731716>Smug womanish bedwetter continues to respond with passive-aggressive attempts to appear intellectually superior and unphasedSit on your balls, hard, you soft-handed damsel.>I'm so mature, a-bloo-bloo-bloo>My games of pretend have moved beyond the childish things YOU like>Slavery and rape and existential evil is so IMMATUREI'm going to call you names, and you are going to deserve every single one.
>>96727985Because Paizo is pro-slavery, that's the only answer.>>96728048>makes it very hard to keep players from participating on the side of the slaversNice mask off moment, slaver filth. Enjoy being a corpse on a pile with the rest of your subhuman ilk after we free your slaves, slaughter your numbers, and burn your holds to ash.
>>96732124You were daydreaming again maggot.Back to the asbestos mines with you.And half-rations for dawdling.
why does cheliax exist now
>>96730590>AI
>>96732572Oh just expect it to never come up again.Or if it does, expect it to have been inexplicably reformed offscreen.Slavery?Memory-holed in-setting.Forced labour?Physically impossible; the gods themselves redistribute the baddie's silver pieces directly into the pockets of those who are exploited for manual tasks, with compensation.Something like the spellplague happened, and everybody collectively forgot that they could make people do things against their will.The Orcish economy collapsed overnight, and the six or seven different flavours of Lawful Evil bootleg D&D monsters are facing their own civilizational collapse.The Duergar and Drow seem to dimly remember a time when somebody else did all the shit-sweeping and litter picking, but are stumped as to who, as they sit around their moldering fortresses refusing to pick up their own laundry and discarded cutlery out of the strange lingering apprehension that they are too good for that.
>>96732873
>>96727985What slavery is bad?When I introduced a slave merchant into my game my party immediately started going full-on nonlethal and went out of their way to capture all sentient enemies alive now that there was an economic incentive to do so.Hell, over time they even stopped selling some of the slaves they liked and kept them in there stronghold, they even freed some of them for good service
>>96728220>Its hard to figure out why progs do what they doIt's actually very easy:They hate White people. Everything else is "logically" derived from that.
>>96729714Nice second-place trophy.
>>96732572Watch them become wacky fun modern Satanist losers instead of Infernal Authoritarians
>>96733018Gospel truth, no cap, fr fr.I'm gonna write a lightweight rpg about a sexual combat tournament, where the participants are genetically and robotically modified pit-slaves that bloodily rape each other to death with theri weaponized genitals, in front of jeering crowds of racially diverse sexual deviants, to earn upgrades to get better at raping each other to death, in the hope of some day having a shot at retiring on a giant pile of pain-numbing opioids and disposable concubines.
>>96727985Showing something means you agree with it to modern creators. I wish I was making this shit up. Makes sense when the default option is to try and nuke anybody who even disagrees with you slightly from all public squares. A heavily sanitized setting is the going to be the end result. Pathfinder isn't heavily sanitized but that shit is creeping in and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
>why do leftists shun away from depictions of slaveryBecause they're worried players aka chuds will "enjoy it wrong" and suddenly they're complicit or something in right-wing or whatever behavior
>>96727985because retards believe that depiction == endorsement.These are the same retards that believe that speech == violenceThen then of course use this false equivalence to justify their own violence, as their political enemies were the first to escalate to violence in that paradigm of speech == violence
>>96733922>because retards believe that depiction == endorsement.>These are the same retards that believe that speech == violenceThis is not "Retardation". They know what they're doing. May be not the drones, but the queens for sure.
>>96733996Yup.Their favourite tactic when this activity is noticed is "Sandbagging" - pretending they don't know what you are talking about.This is because these people are pathologically conflict averse.Which is a terrible shame for them, because they paint a target on their own foreheads whenever they uncloak.
>>96734062Hitler called it "jewish arguing":>The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.Basically, the right answer to a person attempting to argue in bad faith is lethal force.
>>96733021https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n3m9lZpPwI
>>96734109Yup.I had an argument with Google Gemini (yes, I know) about Saul Alinsky yesterday, and drew much the same conclusions;The reason Alinsky released Rules for Radicals just before he died, is because if his opponents had realized what he was doing while he was still living; they would have been perfectly within their rights to shoot him dead in the street, in cold blood, and piss on his corpse.Hail Victory, friend.There are more of us here than they will ever know.
My fav type of slave
>>96728992You need to remember that a bit before the bad things purge they got a lot of bad publicity for having a demonic patron for pedophiles in one of their villain books. They hard shifted directions at that point and started doing a ton of virtue signalling to pander to the audience that complained.
>>96734798That's pretty off-colour desu.I wouldn't complain about it, or try to censor, but I just straight up wouldn't be interested in thinking too much about that sort of shit.Adult on adult rape?Fine.Cannibalism?Fine.Murdering children non-sexually?Also fine.But that's what I'd call "Unnecessary vulgarity", even by my loose standards.I just don't see how you could introduce that element on to your table and keep it fun, rather than descending into the benthic abyss.Sure; the character is a villain, and that's not an endorsement; but when you go to run the villain, then what?You now have a campaign with an ongoing theme that makes even fairly hardened blood and guts enthusiasts, frankly uncomfortable.Anyway, can I read about this entity on the wiki?My bile curiosity is up, and I gotta see how badly they screwed the pooch.What's it called?
>>96727985Funny how OP mentioned slavery while being a slave to lust and being a coomer
>>96727985Shut up, porn addict
>>96728220Because it is acceptable for the villain to harm characters, but it is not acceptable for the villain to harm The Message(tm)
>>96734907>>96735130>Guys, what do we do?>Some CHUD is calling out our retarded pseudo-ethics on a shithole irrelevant imageboard that was never cool>False flag Chud on Chud conflict;>Call him a "Porn Addict">Yeah, that will show him!Haha.But actually, no.You faggots aren't welcome on the board, in this hobby, or on this planet.You aren't actually concerned about OP's titty anime.You are genitally mutilated freaks trying to forestall your own misanthropic suicides.
>>96730930this is gay as fuck lmaothe reason why people think this is cringy is because it's obviously inspired by the player's personal butthurt.But not just regular butthurt. Media-induced butthurt. The gayest form of butthurt.like you can't fuckin convince me that player feels that strongly about any historical topic without having been properly lobotomized by several movies first.shit's just embarrassing. players like that are a fucking piece of work too most of the time.
>>96735362It is "pretty gay" like that, but if they can roleplay it and arent disrupting the party, I'd allow it.Though if they pitched the character concept to me before asking for a seat I might suddenly remember an acquaintance I had promised the slot to.
>>96735362She's a paladin of freedom, if slavers don't have their own version of "speak of the devil" you're doing it wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKp70tBqUXc
>>96727985>Why did Pathfinder remove slaverybecause it made for a good twitter post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMszhdPbB1oHow come slave songs are so religious? Would slaves in a fantasy world be just as religious?
>>96734872Folca is the demon you're looking for.
>>96732572>>96732879>>96733037So they freed their halfling slaves, on top of course having Cheliax get their ass kicked by all their distant colonies one of which should end up like Haiti realistically. They have "forced" the halflings into contracts as workers, basically doing a sharecropping thing which of course the shitlibs in Seattle can't comprehend many did it because it was their only option.Dunno if the contracts binds their souls or not, be funny if it did. But yeah Cheliax "got rid" of slavery. Whole world did somehow, it's weird. Like the whimpering, crying mewls of some faggot freelancers influenced the world or something.
>>96732879>Monster race slaversYou bring up a good point though. They probably will never speak of the fact that almost all gnolls were slavers again. Just like how they scrubbed clean that their primary goddesses main doctrine included indoctrinating children.
>>96734872On the contrary, the fact that Paizo was willing to depict all manners of evil set it away from the cartoonier WotC. Little did i know Book of the Damned was the final piece of edgy PF content.
>>96736082Yeah Cheliax basically switched from slavery to modern contract slavery, which contradicts the idea that depicting slavery endorses it (unless they like the modern stuff). I suppose they could have wanted to use it to virtue signal against modern slavery, but I haven't seen anything implying that they're moving in that direction.
