You'd think the man who wanted to stamp out religion wouldn't build everything to resemble religious architecture and design. I would have assumed that all came later when the guy is inappropriately deified.
You do have a point.But 30k is, despite it's merits, a product of Nu-GW, and the Black Library HH novel slop factory.The Horus Heresy as a setting is interesting; The Primarchs are not, because they are supposed to be god-like super-beings, with borderline inhuman intelligence; and when midwit scifi writers try to get inside the mind of a higher organism, things get very silly.I think the whole era should have stayed vague and mysterious, and the Primarchs as semi-legendary background characters.Sure, make them playable in the game; but I would have spent far less of the HH novels in the perspective of big name historical figures with reputed godlike intelligence and preternatural understanding; that shit's better observed from an external viewpoint character, which preserves more of the mystery.
>>96731291because the settings entire point is stagnation
>>96731343Unironically, I think the slicker "Original Primaris" style that everybody hated; lacking as it does much of the sacral and idiosyncratic ornamentations we associate with the latter Imperium, would actually be a better fit for the Great Crusade and Heresy eras.
Humans will interpret divine or daemonic presence in all forms of design, from organic "natural" growth to austere mathematical appollonian temples or stark CCCP architecture trying to generate an Apotheosis. One day we'll probably look back on the engines and electronics of today and interpret our design choices as derived from or given to us by an occultic sway over our noosphere, or motivated by or dedicated to some by higher power, which is happening today with the similarities drawn with satanic / daemonic tech, AI as infrastructure to talk to demons etc.Also Emps seemed to be constantly playing whack-a-mole with organised religion and religio-tribal signifiers in almost every legion and worldWhat do you think a secular crusade's aesthetics should have been?
>>96731428Workmanlike, bordering iconoclastic, modern, pointedly "soulless", rationalistic, mass produced and machine stamped.Less of the "hand-inscribed in blood on the bones of martyrs" shtick.Rogue Trader marines were markedly less "Gothic" in style - something between that and the clean lines of the Primaris, but with even less heraldry and gaudy ornamentation .
>>96731330Ignore this grognard who has to complain about everything.>>96731343This is the real answer. The Heresy leading to the stagnation of the Imperium and it's slow but inevitable death is the whole point of the setting.
>>96731291Well the "get rid of religion" stuff was added in later. The Horus Hersey board game and other bits of lore basically portrayed 30k the same as 40k, with the emperor planning to guide humanity to a future as a psychic species.
>>96731497Ignore this bugman, who drinks Gav Thorpe's steaming liquid discharge, and cries out for more.
>>96731291that pic is on horus' flagship which genuinely was a cathedral to chaos
>>96731343Oh wait, Primaris in nu hitech shiny armour and equipment
>>96731330what a stunning and brave, dare i even say revolutionary opinion. We never before heard about such a viewpoint around here.
>>96731888Yes, I do feel quite confident that this is a majority opinion.Thanks for noticing.
>>96731590>>96731898>nuuu everything must be lazily written vague nonsense nuuuCry some more fagwipe
>>96731291I guess what you have to take away from it is barbarism looks like catholic iconography whether it be 40k or the old night.
>>96731330So much this. I just started reading the horus heresy. The first book is okay but then the second is so retarded.The fact that horus who is some centuries old demi God hyper intelligent master manipulator gets played by erebus in such a stupidly obvious way (obvious not only to the reader but to human observers of the event in the story) is so poorly done that it made me give up
>>96731291
>>96732221Yup; rule number one about writing posthuman intelligences with your febrile mortal brain; do it from an outside perspective, because otherwise, you have to show your working.And that working will be where everything falls apart thematically, because it will inevitably break kayfabe, and reveal the author, not as an omniscient disembodied narrator, but as a middle of the road English Literature student, with little understanding of things like physics, battle tactics, logistics, metaphysics, etc.The methodologies of vastly superior minds should be murky and half-understood, clarifying only at the moment when the grand design coalesces, leaving the audience surrogate characters to question if this was their plan all along.Exhaustively writing out the inner thoughts of godlike beings, to resemble those of petulant toddlers and egomaniacs, renders them thoroughly unglamorous.It demystifies them.The mystery, in most cases, is better left as a scintillating cloud of unknowable conjecture, rather than explained in exhaustive detail until all the magic and wonder is gone.The interesting stuff in Warhammer is like the "God Of The Gaps" - it retreats every time the lore clarifies and concretes; to somewhere else where vagueness and unanswered questions yet dwell.
>>96732006The labour theory of value does not apply to entertainment; not that it rightly applies to anything.>I worked hard on itDoes not mean it is good.In fact, the harder they worked on it, the worse it got, and at some point they should have just stopped, but they didn't.And now they have a big old steaming pile of shit, penned by people who can't write, for the pleasure of people who can't read.
>>96731291Because originally the people working on 40K were huge history nerds and the art was referencing the trend in various periods of painting - especially the Renaissance - of depicting notable people and events of prior historical eras - notably Medieval and Classical periods - in at the time modern styles. We were never actually supposed to know what 30K looked like for sure because we were only supposed to experience it as an in-setting mythology, to see it through the same eyes someone in 40K would see it, including in the works of art of 40K showing the Emperor and Primarchs and soldiery in "modern" style. In "reality" while there would be some elements in common due to the stagnation that *used* to be an innate quality of the 40K IP, the detail would have been quite different.Once it became a 200 or whatever novel series of books about a daddy issues soap opera they just uncritically adopted the art because 99% of people working at GW now are 3rd or 4th generation hacks brought in by the corporate board to serve corporate objectives and who only have their obsession with the IP itself and its pop culture contemporaries to draw upon, so the art history aspect went completely over their heads.
>>96731343I thought it was decay.
>>96731291the difference is subtle but its there30k exists to be a specialist game in an already niche hobbylots of people already do mostly buy marines at a significant scale so it makes sense for them to try to find ways to abuse that marketi could imagine HH marines probably sell more some stuff but i don't really knowi just with 30k was a different kind of game since it feels much more superfluous that way
>>96731291>religious architectureIt's called gothic anon.>I would have assumed that all came later when the guy is inappropriately deified.A lot of buildings other than churches were erected in the gothic style. It's a lot more interesting than most of what came before or after in Europe. Drawing upon it carries with it the connotations of a calcified society looking more to to the past than to the future, as well as evoking the passions of Romanticism. It is grandiose with excessive ornamentation, a superficial veneer over a crumbling society, and a classic example of form over function, except for its function of reminding peasants of their unimportance. If you only know it from churches, go and look it up. If you live outside of Europe if you find any example it will probably be a church since it do go through a revival but if you live in Western Europe shame on you for never noticing how many non-church gothic buildings survive.
>>96731330/Thread
>>96732006Take the LThat didn't go well for you bugman
>>96732006I've seen their clear effort and I prefer their vague laziness.
Ignore the retarded samefagging OP shill above, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's talking about>Why is there so little visual difference between 30K and 40KThe main reason is John Blanche being the main Horus Heresy concept artist in 2002-2003. He mixed the art of the card game and Index Astartes and added his trademark sepia gothic style to it. Then in 2004, Black Library's Visions of Heresy became the series bible that the novels and game are based on.In insight, Blanche's art was anachronic and didn't properly match the idea of the early 30k Imperium being a golden age, so later artists deviated from it (like Neil Robert's Prospero being closer to the original card game than Blanche's version). But the "damage" was already done
>>96732221Horus is NOT fooled by Erebus. He calls out his bs at every turn.The whole point of False Gods is to show that he choose Chaos on purpose out of raw ambition.Stop pretending you have read these books instead of parroting wikis, memelore and loretubers
>>96731330>The Primarchs are not, because they are supposed to be god-like super-beingsThe problem rests in making the primarchs and the emperor godlike super beings.
>>96731330>The Primarchs are not, because they are supposed to be god-like super-beings, with borderline inhuman intelligence; and when midwit scifi writers try to get inside the mind of a higher organism, things get very silly.The only midwits are anons like you, angry about shit that never happened because you were out of touch midhammer kids.Primarchs have always been flawed and emotionally disturbed demigods. That's the whole point of them
