>>96733552
He knows how to play the mortal chess 11D plus.

>>96733552
>is literally Conan the Barbarian fused with Highlander, but he's also God-Emperor Leto II from Dune
>is the greatest warlord in human history that conquered the galaxy
>but for some reason people only care about his scientific achievements, and in fact think he's nothing without them
>even though him having a full science team assisting him in creating the Primarchs and the Legions was already canon from day one
>even though he still was the lead scientist on the project
>no no, his achievements were STOLEN
>even though even Cawl points out that geneseed is the Emperor's invention and admires the sheer craftsmanship of it, how perfectly it was designed to achieve his goals, and bemoans the fact that the Emperor's genius mind is trapped in a crippled body unable to speak or share his knowledge any longer
why do people do this?

>>96734025
Faggots with daddy issues can't stand that a heterosexual male exists that is competent.

Star Child? More like nepo baby.

>>96733552
you missed the general

>>96734025
Science is mostly all he cares about too. The Emperor is like a giganerd who got jacked as fuck but is still horribly insecure about it.

>>96734079
>heterosexual male
The Emperor thought girls are icky so he mpreg himself some sons. He literally just wanted to be surrounded by just men. He's a total faggot.

>>96734246
>Science is mostly all he cares about too.
...according to Malcador, that is. Of course every one of the people in his inner circle have a different answer. Malcador says what Big E likes most is scientific pursuit. Erda says what the Emperor values most is control and consensus, IE he considers disagreement with him or his plans a kind of "heresy." Ol Persson says what the Emperor wants most is power, like the power of Enuncia Big E hoped to claim from the Tower of Babel before Persson destroyed it to prevent that from happening. All of them are likely correct, much like the C'tan claim that the Emperor is not a person, he is a weapon. Whether you subscribe to the theory that the Emperor was created by shaman ritual suicide, or if you think he's an abomination that was grown in a Dark Age of Technology lab and then shat back in time to ancient Anatolia circa 8000 BC, either way, the Emperor of Mankind is a living weapon with one sole purpose that guides every action he takes and every word he says: defeating Chaos.

Rumor has it that, if his physical remains were allowed to finally expire, his essence would transcend to the Warp, invade the realm of the Chaos Gods & become the 'fifth' God and either join them or annihilate them, ruling over both the Materium and the Immaterium.

>>96733552
I dunno ask /hhg/

>>96734025
Lol, jobbed to horus
Lmao

>>96734180
Me when my incompetent sniper can't aim

>>96734274
I mean literally EVERY woman in his life fucked over his plans.
>Erda has the biggest WOMAN MOMENT ever and causes the scattering
>Astarte decides to blow everything up
>Kandawire decides to start a civil war
>The Selenar start working on their own Space Marine project behind his back to try and undermine him, despite being shown mercy
Frankly at this point, it's just pattern recognition

>>96737553
maybe it had something to do with the fact he was tyrannically ruling over humanity and destroying its last chance at a better future by enslaving it to the Mechanicum, instead of freeing and enlightening humanity with scientific omnipotence as he promised?

>>96737593
No, it was women.

>>96737593
The other rulers were every bit as bad. You had Basilius Fo, who is the Joker and also a genetics genius, you have evil priest-kings who used daemon shit, guys who had armies of lobotomized cyborgs, AI horrors and entire clans of godlike psykers who did fucked-up shit to people.
The Emperor was a warlord, but he was fighting other warlords and his solutions were less evil than his opposition. Most people just want to live in a world where they don't get eaten by demons or offered up as human sacrifices.

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>>96737710
>The Emperor was a warlord, but he was fighting other warlords and his solutions were less evil than his opposition

>>96737710
>Most people just want to live in a world where they don't get eaten by demons or offered up as human sacrifices.
Then why would anyone serve the Emperor, who is feeding the entire galaxy to Chaos on a silver platter?

>>96733552
>his scientific achievements got stolen
science is not a one guy does it all sort of activity. You need teams to develop anything useful in any timeframe worthwhile. It isn't even a new lore thing, one of the astartes organs is named the "Larramans organ", he's had help since the beginning, from a guy named Larraman at least.

>>96737919
That's what we call 'unforeseen consequences'. It was good to be alive during the Great Crusade-era Imperium.
Shame about the Heresy tho.

>>96738007
>It was good to be alive during the Great Crusade-era Imperium.
Before reading The Last Church I would've agreed with that.

>>96738007
Except if you ended up being a slave. You know, those were a thing.
Or had one of his more psychotic sons put in charge of your planet/unit.

>>96738204
It's hilarious to me how The Last Church was somehow supposed to be portraying the Emperor as right.

>>96738204
Know No Fear also shows us what life is like for Great Crusade-era humanity. A manufactorum overseer gets visited by an Ultramarine because they suffered a 6 minute delay due to a worker passing out from exhaustion and needing to be replaced with a reserve laborer. The Ultramarine lectures the overseer on the importance of zero delays, as even one minute of delay in supplies being shipped to the frontlines of the Great Crusade can cost thousands of lives.
The Overseer simply points out that small delays are inevitable when workers are being pushed to do 16 hour shifts with no breaks, 6 days at a time, and production quotas keep being increased, which is forcing them to expand work shifts longer and make up the difference by stimming the workforce to keep them awake like zombies at the production line.
Of course, the Ultramarine's arrival forced the factory to be shut down due to the pomp and circumstance of the marine's arrival, the ceremonies they have to do to greet him and the lecture with the overseer. Costing another two full hours of production before the Ultramarine leaves.
The Great Crusade Imperium was better than 40k Imperium in almost every condition. However, it was not 'good' for the average citizen. The Emperor was wringing every last bit of effort and life out of the serf population that he could to keep the warmachine grinding onwards. And this was the Ultramar Empire, the 'nice' part of the Imperium where your Astartes overlords sit down and talk to you rather than simply putting a bolt shell in your cranium and ordering the next overlord to step up production to make up for the loss of time.

>>96733552
I live under a rock. Can someone tell me what happened? I'm an Eldar fan so I don't follow the pauldron girlies adventures.

>>96738390
just an anon upset that Erda and Astarte exist and helped the Emperor with creating the Primarchs and Legions

>>96738407
Thank you anon, I think Erda sucks too and I don't get what she brings to the story aside from "woman"

>>96738319
It's not. The author himself is on record about wanting to portray the Emperor as flawed and the priest earning a moral victory. Not to mention how it foreshadows what's going to happen later in the series.
This was also the guy that wrote the second HH book with the origin of the Imperial Cult being unironically space christians in Rome.

But autistic chriscucks retards and culture warriors miss the point.

>>96738204
The Last Church is set at the end of the Unification Wars in Terra, not in the later Great Crusade-era Imperium.

>>96738562
I think you missed the point. The Last Church shows us that Terra is already being transformed into an authoritarian hellhole full of endless factories and agonizingly long workdays. It's why there was the French revolution against the Emperor prior to the start of the story, they realized he was going to destroy everything they loved and their freedoms too with his brutal policies. Paved over their picturesque countrysides and beautiful manors with factories from corner to corner of the entire continent. It never gets better, this is the starting point for the entire Imperium and it only gets worse from here

>>96738554
Uriah is wrong, but he’s right. The Emperor is right, but he’s wrong.

>>96738554
Anon, Graham McNeill thought he was showing the Emperor as "mean, but objectively correct" when everyone who read the story can see the Emperor isn't objectively correct about anything. He was so proud of his fedora-tipping in this short story that he tried to show it to Richard Dawkins, his personal idol, as a masterpiece. Dawkins was less than impressed that McNeill's concept of b-b-based atheist superhero was a despot destroying every culture that doesn't align with his own and proceeding to conquer the galaxy. He didn't realize the Emperor was portrayed as flawed, he thought the Emperor was just badass and cool and Uriah was an idiot for believing in a religion

>>96738590
>Uriah was an idiot for believing in a religion
he is

>>96738601
>Emperor performs a literal miracle and heals him without explaining anything when he's dying on the battlefield
>Uriah assumes this must be proof of the supernatural
>Emperor burns down his church 20 years later
>"Why did that guy believe in gods? lol what an idiot"
>except the supernatural actually does exist
>so do gods
>The Emperor has even stolen the power of the gods a few centuries prior to this short story for himself
>The Emperor doesn't learn his lesson from Uriah worshiping his miraculous powers, still presents himself to the galaxy as a 10 foot tall superhuman with godly powers, never explains the Warp to anyone, is confused when they start worshiping him as a god

>>96738590
stop being a retarded christcuck making shit up:
>I wanted to end the story in a way that, while Uriah might have been wrong, he was the one you liked better and who came out with the apparent moral high ground. The Emperor was right, yet he came across as the arrogant, short-sighted tyrant – the very kind he rails against in the story.
> https://graham-mcneill.com/last-church/
Big E is an asshole in the story and his arguments are weak, but that doesn't change that he's "right" about the danger of religion in the 30k universe.

>>96738630
>retard assumes retarded things
who could have thought

>>96738643
The Emperor's reasons for why religion bad in The Last Church have nothing to do with why religion is dangerous in 40k. He doesn't bring up Chaos even once. It's literally just "religion bad" using the shittiest, least researched talking points from a Dawkins lecture as his justifications. It does a great job showing the Emperor is a fedora-tipping dumbass though
>>96738646
I guess the Emperor is more retarded than everyone else then. He assumed no one would mistake him for a god.

>>96738630
>le lol
it's supposed to be tragic, the Emperor fighting against humanity's most entrenched instinct, and foreshadowing of what's going to happen in the HH and 40k.
He needs to play the role of the "Emperor" to conquer the galaxy, but that in turn generates dangerous worship for him.

>>96738674
>it's supposed to be tragic
I find it hard to see the Emperor making such a boneheaded mistake after living for approximately 38000 years (born in 8000 BC) as 'tragic' and more like he has zero pattern recognition about human behavior.

>>96738661
>He doesn't bring up Chaos even once
he doesn't need to, all his other points about how religion always end up being corrupt stand in his seting and in reality and we can see every day. The author was a bit of a try hard and badly preaching online atheist talking points, and that should not have happened, but still he wasn't wrong, just incompentent.

>>96738700
Coming from the franchise that writes the smart and superior Farseers as being unable to do anything but charge to their deaths, are you even surprised?

>>96738745
>he doesn't need to
Yes he does, if you want him to be explaining the threat of religion in 40k he kinda needs to actually explain the fact that Chaos is empowered by it.
>all his other points about how religion always end up being corrupt stand in his seting and in reality and we can see every day
LOL! You're hilarious

>>96738661
nah as always it was the religitard's fault for believing in stupid shit

>>96738700
There's 2 valid explanations about that:
1.Hubris, autistically doubling down in trying to prove being right even to random strangers
2.5D chess and playing a role

>>96738765
name a non corrupt religion

>>96738769
Right, like the actual gods that the Emperor stole his power from... stupid shit like that... who would believe in such things?
>>96738770
Supposedly it was Malcador who insisted the Emperor needed to present himself as being a god in all but name. Maybe the Emperor got sick of Malcador bitching at him and put on the golden armor and flowing hair to shut him up.
>>96738782
Name a noncorrupt human organization of any kind and I'll show you a flying pig

>>96738700
>I find it hard to see the Emperor making such a boneheaded mistake after living for approximately 38000 years (born in 8000 BC) as 'tragic' and more like he has zero pattern recognition about human behavior.
Its a hubris tragedy, the entire point is no matter how smart or powerful or whatever a human is they still do dumb human shit. That's it. Its an alternative to progressive humanist scifi. If you like that sort of style you're not going to like warhammer 30/40k. Even the nobledark stuff is tragedy based.

>>96738815
if religions are as corrupt as secular human organizations there's no point to them. They're just enabling mechanisms for liars posing as holy men to fool the desperate and the ignorant

>>96738845
>if religions are as corrupt as secular human organizations there's no point to them.
By that logic there's no point in anything at all and we should all just lay down and die

>>96738845
Dis you really type this, thought it was deep and press send?

>>96738630
The emperor is autistic and does not understand other people's subjective experience

>>96738643
My biggest problem with The Last Church isn't Emps' shit points, it's Uriah's. Graham is a fucking hack who couldn't go talk with even one priest and actually study their rhetoric so it could at least feel like you're reading Emps talking with someone of a faith rather than a retarded redditor who's never read the bible. The level of theological discourse in the story is worse than arguments you find every single fucking day on 4chan.

>>96739016
as McNeill says, Uriah is not a theologian or even a trained priest. He's just a former drunk with good intentions and genuine faith.

However, the rhetoric of IRL priests of all failths is not much better in my experience.

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Btw, for those of you that hate BL because a supposed anti-religion bias, you should read pic related.
The cover is misleading, the story is actually about how marines, the Eclessiarchy, and the Word Bearers deal with faith, and the name of the story is on point

>>96738321
>Ruins the Emperor
>Ruins the Primarchs
>Ruins the Legions
>Passes out Idiot Balls like candy
The Horus Heresy series was written by incompetent fucktards who just made it 40K 2: Electric Boogaloo. I don't think you can point to a single aspect of 30K and call it anything other than a mistake.

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>>96739214
nobody cares about your midhammer midwit opinions, 30k is great

>>96739226
The idea of 30k is great. The execution of 30k is absolute fucking dogwater, or every third thread wouldn't be people bitching about dur hurr the Emperor is a bad guy actually and his Imperium was an inherently shit idea.

>>96739226
It is wild how much shittier each version of this fight got.

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>>96739226
There's a few gems but it was overall such a massive dissappointment, I remember being hyped back when we just had 5 books releaaed so far and figured they'll get better over time lol.

I almost wish they'd never been written.

The second apocalypse series of books is a way better 30k/40k than BL, though I really like Peter fehevari's books as well.

>>96734079
>>96734274
he’s clearly asexual, as they were test tube babies
in this thread we respect our mogai emperor

>>96735464
I can only assume that the Emperor wasn't all that terribly interested in power or control given that he's a godlike superbeing who could have waltzed in and taken over the world whenever he wanted but instead spent tens of thousands of years apparently just pretending to be a normal-ass guy and only decided to reveal himself in humanity's genuine, literal darkest hour.

>>96739526
There's a theory among some fans that the Emperor engineered the downfall of Dark Age of Technology by setting the Men of Iron against humanity and forced the Age of Strife to happen to set up for his own rise to absolute power over the survivors. Right now there's almost zero evidence to support it, except that according to Malcador the Emperor destroyed the Men of Gold (and then stole their research for his own uses, hence the Custodes)

>>96734079
>Big E
>competent
He was a massive fuck-up who couldn't micromanage 20 dudes and his reign lasted about 200 years before imploding because of it. In the process he got himself "killed" and interred on the golden cuck chair, forced to watch humanity get gangbanged by "aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse" for 10,000 years.

>>96739878
Once again we see that 30K was a disaster for the hobby in every conceivable way.

>>96739141
>primarislop front and center
No I don't think I'll be reading this one.

>>96739911
but everything that anon said was already canon long before the first HH novel?

>>96740645
Canon was "My most trusted general betrayed me and irrevocably fucked up my once-glorious Empire." Canon is now "Big E was a shit father, his plan was doomed to fail, and he got what was coming to him."

>>96740733
>Canon was "My most trusted general betrayed me and irrevocably fucked up my once-glorious Empire."
Except we already knew the traitor Primarchs all suffered from daddy issues that the Emperor was blind to. There were jokes on /tg/ from the day the board opened that if the Emperor had simply paid for therapy for his sons none of them would have turned on him
>Canon is now "Big E was a shit father, his plan was doomed to fail, and he got what was coming to him."
That was always the canon. RT (1st) and 2nd edition heavily emphasized that the Emperor was cold and detached from humanity and his sons, as a core reason why many of the traitors grew estranged from him and ended up turning heel

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>>96740837
That's a nice argument, Senator. Why don't you back it up with a source?

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>>96740837
Wow, anon, look at that. The first ever mention of the Heresy, from the second ever book in the setting, explicitly stating that Horus was the problem. Notably, I remind you, this was before the primarchs were related to the Emperor in any way whatsoever other than 'really good generals'.
In conclusion, shove a candle up your ass and light it.

>>96741087
>anon proceeds to ignore all of 2nd edition and the IA articles that detailed exactly what happened to make every traitor turn
lmao, insane how far the gaslighting attempts go

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>>96740645
>long before the first HH novel?
99.9% of it (with a 0.1% margin of error) comes from picrel.

>>96739141
>for those of you that hate BL because a supposed anti-religion bias
I hate BL for shitty writing and being an outlet for offitially sanctioned fanfics.
>>96739226
The game is (or was) nice, the lore is absolute fucking dogshit and no amount of sperging about it will ever change that fact.

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What do you think about prettyboy/feminine portrayals of the Emperor in fan art, and why did this become a thing?

>>96733552
He might be one of the few humans who have mastered the art of spear chucking due to being some chalcolithic motherfucker

>>96734246
More like he's a jock who really wants to fit in with the nerds but he's just too stupid.

>>96741223
Again, anon, back it up with a fucking source.
You're the one here saying that the Primarchs were always Big E's superhuman sons and daddy issues were the root cause of every problem. Go find it and post it.

>>96741300
People want to fuck femboys and are incapable of refraining from inserting their fetish into every single one of their interests they possibly can.

>>96741588
quite a bit like warhammer fanboys in that regard

>>96735464
>Erda says what the Emperor values most is control and consensus, IE he considers disagreement with him or his plans a kind of "heresy."
And weirdly when Erda fucked everything up and ran off, the Emperor didn't even bother chasing her to get her back under control or punish her. Or all the other Perpetuals who left him, and he just let them leave rather than trying to control them or get them to agree with him.

Conclusion: Erda is his bitchy ex talking shit, QED.

>>96738630
The Emperor (beloved by all) beat up a bunch of bloated extradimensional ticks for their lunch money to stop them from sticking the galaxy into paralysis. Unfortunately the parasites were too deeply embedded, but he freaked them out enough that they were genuinely terrified and working together against him, so he gets points for pulling a draw out of the rabbit hat.

>>96739878
Micromanaging got to Ullanor. It was the moment he told Horus to take over micromanaging that everything went to shit. It lasted about a thousand years, too. It took 700+ years to get off Earth and out of the solar system, then another two centuries of the Great Crusade running at breakneck speed. Close to a millennium.

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>>96741253
Wrong. Visions of Heresy in 2004, the HH series bible, already featured the plot of Master of Mankind.

>>96740733
>Canon is now "Big E was a shit father, his plan was doomed to fail, and he got what was coming to him."
no, that's what some of the characters believe or the cope of the traitor primarchs about their own weaknesses (like Mortarion). Others come to realize that Big E maybe was an asshole manipulator, but he was actually right about it (like the Khan in Path of Heaven, or Guilliman in the Dark Imperium series)

But you and other terminally online retards that have not read the books just parrot memelore from reddit, wikis and loretubers.

>>96741253
>ADB
That explains a lot. He wrote an incredible Nightlords trilogy, but they were arguably a blank slate and those guys hating the Emperor is par for the course. Nobody knew he couldn't turn that trash off for a more serious novel.

>>96742612
The thing you have to realize, anon, is that cherrypicking a specific book can bring you to whatever conclusion you're looking for, and there are a lot more "Big E is Bad" books to pick from than there are "Big E was flawed but justified". Not to mention most reader's inability to account for bias, exacerbated by the complete and utter refusal of the series to maintain a single ounce of consistency.

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>>96741579
nta, but you're a fucking retard. By 1993 primarchs already were sons of the Emperor in 2e and the HH boardgame

>>96733552
>all his scientific achievements got stolen
Wasn't it all jut him trying to reverse engineer Golden/Dark Age tech anyhow? Nothing he had held a candle to what mankind could do in the 20k era.

>>96742638
the HH books (and the recent 40k novels) are superficially ambiguos on purpose about the Emperor competency and good intentions, while low key hinting that he manipulated everybody to ensure sitting on the Golden Throne for 10,000 years on purpose.

BL books are just pulp space oper, but unironically too smart and subtle for the slack jawed midhammer anti-BL retards that do not understand basic bitch storytelling tricks

>>96742657
>half a decade later
Real speedy.
Also, 'daddy issues' and 'Big E was doomed to fail' are notably absent from this document, which you may recall is what I was arguing against in the first place.

>>96742570
Erda was another example of an ambitious but badly executed and out of place Abnett plotline.
But everybody seems to miss two things about her:
1.There's a running theme in the setting about the Emperor gaslighting, brainwashing and memory wiping people, even primarchs. And Erda has trouble remembering some things...
2.Erebus thinks he has killed Erda, but there's no such scene or a body.

The chances of seeing her again in the Bequin series are wayyy more than zero

>>96742686
shut up you pedantic dipshit
you said:
>Canon was "My most trusted general betrayed me and irrevocably fucked up my once-glorious Empire." Canon is now "Big E was a shit father, his plan was doomed to fail, and he got what was coming to him."
Both statements are wrong. The first is still canon (son or not, Horus was still that), and the second is an opinion held by characters in the setting but not the whole story.

You're wrong and retarded and you don't know jack shit about 30k or 40k. Shup up and fuck off

>>96742732
Well, if I'm a pedantic dipshit, I guess I have no choice but to point out that the term 'was' in relation to the first statement can be taken to, but does not inherently preclude, its application to the present tense, and therefore it is incorrect to call it wrong.
For the second, if the prevailing belief of everybody who reads the series tends toward the same impression - including multiple people in this very thread - we must conclude that either everyone's a retard or that is in fact what the books say. Statistically, only half of everyone is of below-average intelligence, which means the blame falls squarely on the source material.

>>96735464
>>96739526
>>96742570
Th trick with the Emperor is that he doesn't talk directly, he psychically conveys concepts and lets the person receiving process his intention in their own personal way.
So any characters perspective of The Emperor is saying more about themselves than it does him.

>>96739739
It probably would have been much easier for the Emperor to take over in ancient times by simply being a super intelligent immortal Ghengis Khan figure.

>>96738854
Other corrupt organizations tend to offer some kind of secular benefit or controls.

>>96737653
this, but unironically

>>96734274
Based

>>96737553
lorelet here, Emps was with a woman named Astarte?
seriously?

>>96743312
No, she was just a scientist:
> https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Amar_Astarte
It's still stupid and she and Erda should have been the same character

>>96733552
This thread just proves to me that anyone taking the lore of 40k seriously is a massive retard, and that includes the current writers of the setting.

>>96744756
>OP samefagging to bump his own thread
pathetic

>>96744763
I'm calling OP a retard, you retard.

>>96742636
With every book he pushes, I become more and more certain in my belief that ADB is the Jared Leto of Black Library.

>>96742683
54 shitty books to get a vague shrug and a "well I guess it's what you take from it!".

You can get the same effect by reading none of them.

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>>96734274
>What are Sisters of Silence
>What are Sensei
Lol
Lmao
>>96734079
This

Also Black Library and HH was a mistake 40k will never recover from.
Still, you can always ignore it.

>>96742587
The Emperor's failure to control his sons started well before Horus was made warmaster. Despite being a supposed super-genius who is also psychic, basic human psychology is apparently beyond his understanding. Even if he is some detached demigod, based on everything we're told (not shown) about his intellect, he should understand leadership/fatherhood on a cognitive level and be able to manipulate accordingly. The problem is that if the Emperor is actually written as the intelligent, charismatic warlord he is supposed to be, the Heresy doesn't even happen.

>>96745255
Or the HH does happen as planned with plausible deniability.

I wonder if any of you has read God Emperor of Dune, one of main sources of inspiration for 40k. The Emperor is just Leto Atreides II with extra steps and having to deal with bigger problems.

>>96745334
>I wonder if any of you has read God Emperor of Dune, one of main sources of inspiration for 40k. The Emperor is just Leto Atreides II with extra steps and having to deal with bigger problems.
lol, this one particularly retarded anon keeps trying to defend the Emperor by saying he's just like Leto II in thread after thread. Even though Leto II and the Emperor have completely opposite philosophies about the future of humanity. Even though Leto II was competent at everything and succeeded at everything he set out to accomplish, and the Emperor is a complete fuckup at everything and fucked up everything he set out to accomplish. Yes anon, we know you read Dune and apparently have zero media literacy since you keep saying they're the same even though they couldn't be more different.

>>96742889
He did raise numerous empires in prehistory, including the one where he found the Tower of Babel. When Ol Persson rebelled against the Emperor and destroyed the Tower to prevent the Emperor from learning its unholy, Warp-tainted secrets, the Emperor's empire collapsed shortly thereafter because he no longer had a goal in mind for it and it was no longer of use to him. The implication is that he's done this countless times before and during history, raising a personal empire to accomplish a specific task and then letting it collapse once he's either succeeded or failed at that objective.

>>96742570
>Conclusion: Erda is his bitchy ex talking shit, QED.
There's another conclusion that can be drawn. Erda was simply playing into the Emperor's plans all along without realizing it. After all, he DID see them as sons, despite what he claimed to Erda that they would only be weapons to him.
There is a third possible conclusion. He forgave her because he loved her.
>>96742580
You mean the Chaos gods? Call them what they are. Gods.

>>96741253
No? You ever heard of Index Astartes? That's where the motives for each traitor Primarch were first detailed.

>>96741579
>You're the one here saying that the Primarchs were always Big E's superhuman sons and daddy issues were the root cause of every problem. Go find it and post it.
It's crazy how newfags try this hard to gaslight everyone into believing nothing existed prior to their mayfly lifespan.

>>96745334
Leto II fucks up the galaxy because he's trying to teach humanity a lesson. His intentions are to diversify and proliferate humanity to the point that no one disaster could wipe out the entire species. He has people dancing in the palm of his hand for thousands of years AFTER he is "dead". Leto II is a well written character who actually has a reason for fucking up the galaxy and turning it into a despotic shithole for thousands of years. The Golden Path was a success and, by the end of the series, humanity has expanded its reach to new galaxies. The Emperor of Man, by comparison, is a fucking joke who's plans basically fell apart right out of the gate.

>>96733552
He is Great Horned Rat of 40k, racial deity of humans who have a bit of every Chaos God portfolio in him and represents mankind's ability to ruin themselves and the galaxy.

>>96745936
>keeps trying to defend the Emperor by saying he's just like Leto II
Wrong. It's just just a fact that needs to be repeated for midwits like you
>Leto II and the Emperor have completely opposite philosophies about the future of humanity
Wrong. They both have the same goal, but need opposite solutions. Scattering humanity doesn't work in the 40k galaxy, it doesn't ensure the species survival when there's xenos and daemos around
>Leto II was competent at everything and succeeded at everything he set out to accomplish, and the Emperor is a complete fuckup
Wrong. The Emperor's story is yet unfinished. The apparent faults of Leto II reign are only revealed to be on purpose at the end of God Emperor.

This is why it's obvious that you haven't read the book unlike 40k authors.

>>96742570
The Emperor also simply allowed Ol Persson to walk away after Persson destroyed the Tower of Babel and took away the Emperor's first chance at absolute, godlike power to reforge reality as he saw fit. The Emperor is not devoid of feelings, he's a human being. Betrayals hurt him, but he also values the other Perpetuals as comrades and equals, something precious to him that he could not bring himself to destroy. Just like Horus. Each set back to his plans is unfortunate, but Erda's actions only required him to accelerate the timetable for the Great Crusade a bit so he could pick up the Primarchs from each world they ended up on.

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>>96746000
Also, despite being a weird worm god who has transcended his humanity, he still gets more bitches then closeted homosexual known as Big E.

>>96746000
see >>96746032
Not only the Emperor had much harder problems to fix, his own Golden Path is low key hinted to be a red herring.

After reading the HH series is impossible not to see the big neon signs about Big E alwasy wanting to sit in the Throne for ten thousand years, with humanity utterly depending on him for survival. Exactly like Leto II but in a bigger scale.

>>96746032
>Wrong. It's just just a fact that needs to be repeated for midwits like you
Imagine being unable to tell the difference between two characters and calling everyone else midwits, lmfao
>They both have the same goal
Not even close. They're literal opposites. The Emperor's plan is to rule over humanity for 1 million years and guide their evolution, cementing the power of psychic foresight forever. At no point does he himself bow out of the process like Leto II. At no point does the Emperor plan to render psychic foresight impossible like Leto II. Leto II is the guy who looks at the psychic future of humanity and says 'lol that's gay' while the Emperor looks at the psychic future of humanity and says 'sick, I'm gonna make sure humanity reaches this ending'
>Wrong. The Emperor's story is yet unfinished.
His story is finished dumbass. His Golden Path was destroyed when Magnus shattered the Webway. Everything the Emperor does now is just to try to keep humanity alive a little longer.
>This is why it's obvious that you haven't read the book unlike 40k authors.
Its honestly hilarious how stupid you are. Literally soifacing at two characters both being called God-Emperor and saying "THEY MUST BE THE SAME THING!!!!!1!!"

>>96746032
>They both have the same goal
NTA, but they really don't. "Save the species" is such a vague and distant goal that it basically means nothing specifically. Leto II wants to humanity to have boundless genetic and cultural diversity and spread far beyond the control of any one regime or ideology. The Emperor of Mankind wants humanity to become a monolithic entity that hides in the webway to undergo some ill-defined psychic metamorphosis and emerge as super reddit atheists or something.

>>96746070
>wanting to sit in the Throne for ten thousand years, with humanity utterly depending on him for survival. Exactly like Leto II but in a bigger scale.
Leto II's entire regime was built with the intent of turning humanity off the idea of being ruled by one person, forever. Wanting humanity to be dependent on any one thing is the exact opposite goal of the Golden Path.

>>96746087
>unable to tell the difference
Wrong, the differences are irrelevant, what matters is their strong same demiurge role in the setting
>They're literal opposites
Wrong. Both are focused in the survival of humanity at all costs. You miss the forest for the trees by focusing in the means each use for that.
>His story is finished
Wrong. That's what the characters believe and what he tells them. But not what actually happens.
You don't even know about the Starchild, or the other clues around
> both being called God-Emperor and saying "THEY MUST BE THE SAME THING!!!!!1!!"
because they fucking are, you media illiterate moron. It's not even subtle, and never has been.
>>96746177
>>96746203
See above. There's nothing vague and distant, their goal just require different ways due to being different universes.
Leto II would not be have planned a Scattering if fucking 40k daemons and Chaos gods existed in the Duneverse. First he would need to make psychologically better humans. Exactly like the Emperor.

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>>96746087
>His story is finished
is it?

>>96746222
>See above.
There is nothing to see above, you don't understand the most important plot point of God Emperor of Dune. I'm beginning to suspect you didn't even read it.
>if fucking 40k daemons and Chaos gods existed in the Duneverse
They don't and by pointing out that distinction you are highlighting one of the reason the two characters are different
>First he would need to make psychologically better humans
The God Emperor isn't making better humans, the psychic evolution is happening on its own. Once that evolution happens we don't know what the Emperor plans for the human race. He never got that far because he united humanity under one system, which meant all of humanity suffered when that system failed. Literally the thing Leto II wanted to avoid.

>>96746316
>unable to see that the Emperor is a explicit twist on Leto II with different problems and solutions
>GW even gave him the same title and a stagnant "Imperium" on a breaking point
your autism and lack of nuance is tiresome
> we don't know what the Emperor plans for the human race
Wrong. He wants a race of "Emperors" like him
>He never got that far because he united humanity under one system, which meant all of humanity suffered when that system failed
Wrong. The story has not ended yet, and the "system" is hinted to have "failed" on purpose to engineer the status quo of 40k

You barely read God Emperor, and you clearly haven't read the relevant HH/40k books. HInt: wikis and loretuibers are not good enough. Try to keep up.

>>96746316
>humanity suffered when that system failed
suffering is a currency in the 40k galaxy, lorelet

>>96739739
Why would he want to end the Dark Age of Technology? Wasn't humanity high on the hog and capable of god-like feats and on their way to getting on the level of the Eldar and Necrons, tech-wise?

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>>96746654
Maybe because all the superscience and AIs weren't going to fix the actual problem of human souls increased negative backlash in the Inmaterium.
The power, the many polities, and human genetic subespecies of the DAOT also must have made impossible to steer Humanity by a single man, even Big E.

Assuming the Emperor also foresaw the Eldar creating the warp storms that made warp travel impossible and the Fall, he may have decided to weaken the DAoT with a civil war just at the critical time. That would ensure that pretty much only him would be reading to unify humanity again.

Remember that is also hinted the the Emperor created the Martian cult. A convenient way to avoid technology and AI becoming too powerful to mess with his plan.

>>96746423
Because the Emperor failed

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>>96746815
The Emperor should've just genetically engineered humans into being blanks, or at least having dull resistant souls like the Tau and Votann.

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>>96746818
did he, really?

>>96746827
Making everybody blanks or dim souled humans seem like an obvious solution at fist glance.
But there's something about making humans purely material beings that Big E must have not liked or seen as a dead end. Maybe because that would make humans still phisically vulnerable against psychic races and the warp, instead of imposing control over it.

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>>96746887
>But there's something about making humans purely material beings that Big E must have not liked or seen as a dead end
The Emperor was inherently biased since he was both an Eldar simp and a Psyker himself, of course he's not going to like the idea of creating a humanity that has no place for him in it.

>>96746827
Why is the Tau 3 feet taller than a human? They are canonically manlets like the nips they larp as.

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>Muh religion bad
>Muh Richard Dawkins
Man had sex with a tranny, why do GW, Reddit and /tg/ take him seriously?

>>96746827
The Emperor wanted humanity to become immortal demigods like himself and Malcador, that can't happen if they're all Pariahs or psychic blunts like the Tau/Votann. The immortality of the Perpetuals is directly reliant on having souls.

>>96746654
>Why would he want to end the Dark Age of Technology?
So that he could take control and steer humanity onto the Golden Path. Also because he probably hates humanity's over-reliance on tech when his ideal for humanity is being 8 foot tall gigachads who solve all their problems with unga bunga muscle or unga bunga psychic powers.

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>>96746222
>>96746409
You are functionally retarded and neither understand Dune nor 40k.

>>96746409
>"failed" on purpose
Do retards actually believe that the webway project imploding, the Emperor being turned into a vegetable, and the Imperium backsliding into a barely functional theocratic shithole was all part of some giga-brained 4d chess move?

>>96748375
it's the only way they can cope with the fact that the Emperor is unambiguously a tremendous failure

>>96748314
Blanks have souls, they're just the equivalent of a positive charge to the Warp's otherwise negative charge.
And thanks to the Inquisitor game there can also be Blanks so powerful that they can start doing things like regenerating, and even control their abilities and use them to permanently kill daemons just by getting near them (it happens in the game).

>>96745255
>fatherhood
I never understood this. The Primarchs were adults when he met them. They rose to conquer and rule as warlords and leaders of their planets and entire societies, except Angron, reforging heir worlds as they saw fit and in some cases creating their own stellar empires (Dorn). They weren't fucking toddlers, and one of the gigantic problems of the shit that Black Library shoveled out in the Horus Heresy is incompetent writers leading to the absurd reductionism of "bad father" when the Emperor was NEVER a father to any of them, precisely because he raised none of them. He met them as adults and while he saw them as sons, he expected they act as the adults they were, not playact childhood for them. Except Alpharius if you trust him, and if you do trust him then he evidently wasn't a terrible father, he told him the mission, got him good teachers, gave him his Legion and ships and instructions, and trusted his son would be able to do what needed doing.

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>>96740837
1st isnt canon and the Emperor isn't portrayed as anything in 2nd. We knew almost nothing about him until HH novels.
REDDIT

So just to ask, the Tower of Babel in legend is The Emperor trying to gain the power of Enuncia? Why didn't he just build another one?

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>>96748326
cry more
>>96748375
>>96748672
If you weren't dirty casuals, you'd know that the HH books deliberately leave it open to interpretation. Most characters believe what you say, but then there's lots of hints telling a different story.
The prologue to Valdor's book. The Emperor uneven handling of the primarchs, The Board is Set story, The Emperor’s Acuity vision shown to Alivia Sureka. Vulkan noticing how ramshackle was the Imperial Webway. Not even Malcador knowing his full plans. And so on.

At the bare minimum, there's no way to escape the conclusion that the Emperor decided to go with the 40k God Emperor plan once Magnus broke the Webway seals.

>>96749537
Nope, it's the other way around. The Emperor toppled the Tower of Babel and killed the Enuncia sorcerers that build it.
But he decided to keep the power of Enuncia for himself instead of getting rid of it, which caused the fallout with Oll Persson

>>96749682
It would be funny if Enucia turned out to be some ancient c'tan language or something like that.

>>96737481
Wasn't he holding back while Horus was going all out with the backing of four literal Gods pushing their full power into him at the same time?
It's like having Mike Tyson in his prime fight a toddler in terms of strength, except the toddler is covered in razor wire, electrified and wearing a bomb vest at the same time.

>>96742600
This. I don’t get why so many people blame BL for HH plot decisions when almost all of it was outlined ahead of time from index astartes and visions of heresy 20+ years ago.

Most of the nonsensical shit (emperor x magnus, prospero burning, thunder warrior genocide, emperor secret web way project he doesn’t tell anyone, needless angron abuse, curze being a obvious liability, dorn turtling, the aesthetic and style of the 30k imperium being the same as 40k, etc.) is from those

>>96749682
>The Emperor toppled the Tower of Babel
LOL you stupid fucking secondary, Persson had to blow it up before the Emperor got his hands on it because he had two brain cells to rub together and knew that the Emperor was going to be corrupted by Chaos if he got his hands on that tainted power

>>96746051
Leto has no direct descendants lmao.
While Emperor has hundreds.

>>96753335
>Emperor has hundreds
Where are they anon?

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>>96753974
Everywhere. Living their lives however they fucking please and having powers to combat chaos and purify people.
Most are unaware they're descended from him.
They're also notably open-minded compared to Imperial standard.

>>96754166
Sensei haven't been mentioned in a GW publication for 30 fucking years. So I'll ask again, where the fuck are they?

>>96754210
They are inconvenient to the current lore, so they simply don't know what to do with them, since every Sensei is basically a Mary Sue.
But they're still canon even officially anyway, as they were never retconned.

>>96754274
Show me one mention of them existing since Y2K happened. Where. Are. They?

>>96754282
GW Italy Apocalypse Campaign.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130708001804/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3310104a_Attacco_Imperium

>>96754339
>Original background by Rick Priestley & Associates, published in Realm of Chaos – Slaves to Darkness and Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned.
Lmao, you went the fucking wiki desperately trying to find something and the best you could come up with is a non-english Apocalypse game on the Wayback Machine that explicitly say copy & pasted the lore from one of the 90's books. The Sensei are functionally de-canonized, dude.

>>96754463
Unfortunately for you, that book was published in 2013, by official branch, and joined by newest lore with new alien races included, and sensei had stats.
>The Sensei are functionally de-canonized, dude.
Lol. Cope.
Everything is canon until retconned.

>>96754633
>Everything is canon until retconned.
Wrong. GW also memoryholes lore that they don't want to be canon. Like the BA Rafen series or the CS Goto books.

>>96754633
Lol, pathetic.

>>96750685
in the 2e version of the fight, yes
In The End and the Death, the Emperor gets bodied by Horus about 5 times in a row because the combined power of Chaos is simply too much to contend with. The Emperor draws out every last trick and tool in his bag of magic tricks just to survive a little longer and still ends up needing Ol Persson and several named characters to bail him out over and over again. Ultimately he only beats Horus because Horus is too proud to rely on the power of Chaos to defeat the Emperor and is tricked into giving it up long enough for Big E to shank him with a magic rock

>>96754799
>Wrong.
Cope.
>GW also memoryholes lore that they don't want to be canon.
That's the thing, they know it's canon, but can't change it openly as it would look retarded.
Some pieces of Goto's books still made it to the canon, actually, via FFG and crossreferencing. Like Craftworld Kaelor.
>>96754807
Yes, you are pathetic.

>>96738815
>Name a noncorrupt human organization of any kind and I'll show you a flying pig

Religion is only a human organization to a non believer, if an organization claims itself to be the followers of a perfect being and acting on his teachings, holding them to the same standards as organizations that don't claim to have divine backing is retarded.

>>96733552
This is the end result of demystifying the Emperor and 30k. I've said since the start that writing books on it instead of leaving it mostly a mystery with just a scant few short snippets to set the tone was a mistake. Instead we've got 30+ books and shit like this is the result. You fucking nerds couldn't just handle having some mystery in the setting and leaving all the 30k stuff as a vague backdrop.

>>96754902
It is faster to say "Black Library are idiots."

>>96739247
>dur hurr the Emperor is a bad guy actually and his Imperium was an inherently shit idea.
Yeah, this stuff is just straight up copied from Dune. Warhammer isn't terribly creative. The Horus Heresy is basically a mash up of Dune and Paradise Lost except it's written by bad writers for an audience of morons.

>>96733552
He's lead scientist, his job is to listen to the scientists on his charge and help them do science, he's basically their teacher. Any achievement they do, they do because he was there to lend them a hand as many times as it took.

>>96746918
I see only a tau and some strange xenos called demiurg.

>>96766288
actual lead scientists in the setting got full credit for their inventions

>>96764067
I look forward to the 60 book series shitting on the unification wars where it turns out the techno barbarians were all peaceful utopian tribes that the emperor destroyed our of spite, taking the credit from numerous never before mentioned super perpetuals along the way.

Is the Emperor even relevant anymore? I've always thought he's just a battery for a lighthouse that could be replaced by pretty much anybody.