Oliver Cromwell's Protectorate of England, Scotland, and Ireland appears in your fantasy setting, complete with the New Model Army at its disposal.How does the Protectorate fair against your fictional nations? How does its appearance alter the geopolitical realities of your world?
>>96748103You, are approached by a group of angry clergy members, seemingless at the fringes of your fief has a witch laid her home and proceeds to heal the locals, murder bandits, sell various totems and baubles, give peasants contracts to higher forces and refusing to pay taxes!As you hear the last part your anger can not contain itself as you tell your man-at-arms to bring you this witch so you can execute her befor your estate. Nervously and with a bad feeling your man march out, the Captain of the guards voicing his concerns if this is a good idea, only to be shut down by you as NOBODY gets to avoid taxation in your fief!Your man-in-arms return a 5 days later, the witch not in chain, not beaten, not gagged nore anything, your soldiers even had the audacity to just lead her straight into your halls!The Witch but makes a hand motion, you feel your mouth sewing shut as she declares your fief and it´s people as hopeless for not having taken down such a big pile of shit years ago. You hear your wife, a cousine of yours given by your grandfather, scream in agony as the witch holds a hand out to her. Her chest errupts in gore as your wifes heart flys straight into her hands. The sky darkens as she calls upon a curse, plunging your city into darkness, hordes of flys start to invade your town, the weapons of your man falling to rust and decay while they too start to scream. They become mad and begin to slaughter roughly half of their own befor they run out to the streets to rape and murder the locals.She eyes you and rips your heart out too, just as you find your life slipping away do you see her almost swallow your heart befor she shakes her head, instead raming a thorn into it and forcing it back into your chest. Thorns and briar grow out off your skin in agony as they tie you to your throne permanently, making you now the Cursed Lord of this new dark domain.The witch flys away while your land falls to chaos and madness.Such arrogance my Lord.
>>96748103Cromwell army is nothing without the backing of their Jewish financiers from continental Europe. (In 1290 Edward Longshanks signed the Edict of Expulsion banning Jews from England, in the ECW they completely funded Cromwells war effort against the traditionalist system in exchange for being allowed to re-enter England. Shortly after the English Civil War and the Royalist defeat, the newly reinstated Jews created the Bank of England, the beginning of the central banking system which exists to this very day)
They are more powerful due to gunpowder. But did Cromwell really wage any wars?
>>96748212Uh, yeah
>>96748212Other than genocide and being a complete asshole to everyone and their dog he's famous for almost non-stop war.
>>96748103If it popped up in the ocean, I think it might actually be close enough that GB could be spotted from either shore. Any ships attempting to leave would immediately we swept away by the current and almost certainly fall off the edge of the world, but explorers from other lands would find the protectorate almost immediately. Once it had been established that the anglos worship a completely impotent idol, there would be a crusade to end all crusades as faithful from all over the world flock to violently convert the newcomers to score brownie points for the afterlife. The new model army would find the locals to be on a comparable technological level to themselves, while also fielding wizards, bullet-proof warriors, summoned "demons" and war-trained monsters of all kinds.
>>96748212All Cromwell did is wage war, commit treason, induce genocide, eat hot chip, and lie.
>>96748490>>96750090>genocideHis conquest in ireland was completely acceptable by the standards of the time, which saw the thirty years war in germany happening over in the continent which far exceeds the brutality of anything that cromwell didBut taigs like having a victim complex
>>96748103They lack magic but are a good 100-150 years ahead in firearms technology, and have more advanced fleets than the best sailors in my setting. It will depend on where they spawn, but after they figure out what happened and where they are they would likely become a relevant power in their region. I don't know if they would try conquering anywhere, since Cromwell was very internally-focused.
>>96748184The Bank of England was created by a Scotsman called William Paterson and was founded forty years after Cromwell's death
>>96750095>His conquest in ireland was completely acceptable by the standards of the timeThis is a lie, even people recording it at the time considered it excessively brutal. And yes, that was in context of the hideously brutal 30 Years' War. Cromwell was a traitor, mass murderer, military dictator; the only reason anyone remembers him well at all is because Charles was THAT lousy of a monarch. Ollie wouldn't be surpassed until Corsican Hitler.
>>96748184>when Poles try to learn history
>>96750131>traitorHe was a hero to the british people and expanded the british empire>mass murdererso was every great figure in history>military dictatorHe was forced to by parliament
>>96750131>>96750194Friendly reminder that the british loved cromwell> “At dinner we talked much of Cromwell; all saying he was a brave fellow, and did owe his crown he got to himself as much as any man that ever got one.” - Samuel Pepys (1666)> “It is strange how every body do now-a-days reflect upon Oliver, and commend him, what brave things he did, and made all the neighbour princes fear him; while here a prince, come in with all the love of his people, hath lost all so soon.” - Samuel Pepys (1667)> L&M note the Medway disaster had heightened Cromwell's posthumous reputation, although none of this admiration was allowed to appear in print. Sobière in 1664 had reported that the coffee-house talk consisted of complaints about taxes, and regrets that the achievements of Cromwell were glories now gone. Megalotti remarked in almost the same terms in 1669 that people 'cannot refrain from odiously comparing the present government with the late one of Cromwell, magnifying the power of the fleets, the alliances, and the reputation of their nation in those times, with many other reflections of like nature...'.
>>96750131>>96750194>>96750201>Robert Blake (27 September 1598 – 7 August 1657) was an English naval officer who served as general at sea and the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports from 1656 to 1657. Blake served under Oliver Cromwell during the English Civil War and Anglo-Spanish War, and as the commanding Admiral of the State's Navy during the First Anglo-Dutch War. Blake is recognized as the "chief founder of England's naval supremacy", a dominance subsequently inherited by the British Royal Navy well into the early 20th century.[2][3] Despite this, due to deliberate attempts to expunge the Parliamentarians from historical records following the Stuart Restoration, Blake's achievements tend to remain relatively unrecognized.[1][4] Blake's successes, however, are considered to have "never been excelled, not even by Nelson" according to one biographer,[5] while Blake is often compared with Nelson by others.Cromwell literally established england's naval supremacy with men like robert blake and henry morgan
>>96750201>>96750205Seems more like the English like Cromwell, but everyone else dislikes him greatly, there's a reason Charles II replaced him after his death
>>96750216try telling ulster prods that they dislike cromwell
>>96748184This is fucking peak 'I learned history from /pol/ threads and filled in the gaps with my imagination'>Cromwells armyNot Cromwell's. He began the wars as a literal-who nobody, and even by the end of the second ECW was still subordinate to Sir Thomas Fairfax>without the backing of their Jewish financiers from continental EuropeParliamentary regiments were funded at first by whichever local noble raised them, with Parliament ultimately promising fairly generous wages for all the men who participated (which Parliament then repeatedly tried to get out of paying, inadvertently triggering the second ECW)>in exchange for being allowed to re-enter England. Jews were not collectively readmitted into England under the Protectorate. Individual Jews were given denizenship, but Parliament rebuffed Cromwell's efforts to grant a general readmittance. Crowmell's goal was to bring Jewish financiers over to fund his war with the Netherlands, who were heavily reliant on Amsterdam's Jewish financiers. But Parliament stonewalled him, so it didn't happen, and the Edict of Expulsion has technically never been repealed, it's just not enforced (after the Restoration, Charles II was petitioned to enforce it again, but refused). 'Cromwell readmitted the Jews' is ahistorical rubbish, on the same level as 'Cromwell banned Christmas'Also worth baring in mind that the Edict of Expulsion hadn't been consistently enforced since the 1400s, which the Sephardim expelled from Spain and Portugal settling in London under the Tudors and being generally ignored by the state>Shortly after the English Civil War and the Royalist defeat, the newly reinstated Jews created the Bank of EnglandThe BoE was founded under William of Orange. That's after the Restoration reinstalled the Stuarts, *and* after the Glorious Revolution had replaced them with the House of Orange
>>96750216>there's a reason Charles II replaced him after his deathOliver's son, Richard Cromwell, replaced him after his death. But Richard was incompetent, lost control of Parliament, got bullied into resigning by the army, and ran away
>>96750216That reason is when Cromwell left his junta to his weakling idiot son, he was deposed by an elite tired of the dictatorship who invited Charles II back under promises he wouldn't take revenge. Which of course he did. Cromwell the traitor's grave wasn't spared and his corpse was desecrated.
>>96750194>He was forced to by parliamentThe Parliament he dismissed and kept institutionally only as a packed rubber stamp? How stupid are you to believe a tyrant when he says he was "forced" to take power?
Not very well because he'd be stuck in a desert full of desert creatures and a giant ball of plasma called the sun. The English famously don't do well in the sun.Source? Me, because the sun is a bitch ass mother fucker and I hate him
>>96748103I don't know anything about Oliver Cromwell's Protectorate of England, Scotland, and Ireland, making your question impossible to answer. >>96750095>>96750201>>96750205Ah, this thread was just an excuse for OP to masturbate over how great this Cromwell guy was. Can't help wondering why you couldn't do this over on /his/.
>>96750095>His conquest in ireland was completely acceptable by the standards of the timeHere, grab a (You)
>>96750194>He was forced to by parliamentWhich part of "Rump Parliament" you don't understand?
>>96750578I'm OP and I've only posted the once. I thought it would be fun to see how a post-Renaissance, pre-Industrial nation would do, especially since Cromwell's puritan beliefs would likely prevent the adoption of magic as a state resource.
>>96748103>GensokyoRazed to the ground.
>>96751339We all totally believe you.
>>96748103(1) The sudden appearance of an existential threat spurs the Neo-Atlanteans into action, where they are going to be able to consistently outmaneuver the navy (though they'd have inferior range for gunnery). Actual artillery would pose a danger to the field armies of the setting, but all major nations field some sort of flying creature corps, which would be able to attack and harass them from the air.(2) This setting has revolvers, breach loading rifles, armored warships, and breach loading artillery (all in early stages, though). It's not a fair fight.
>>96748103>>>/qst/
>>96750216After his son was deposed shortly after Cromwell death, the English dug up his corpse so they could hang and decapitate him. He was extremely divisive at best in England, he had to fight two civil wars to install himself as 'Lord Protector' (king). A 17th century Hitler if Hitler was competent and didn't bring his own nation to ruin. >>96750194Britain didn't even exist at the time he was dead about 50 years, almost a full lifetime beforehand. How could he expand the British Empire?
>>96751366The truth is true whether you believe it or not.
>>96748103Not very well. The Jewish God isn't real in the setting and they're already late 16th tech wise while also having magic so the Bongoloids would have slightly better technology soon snatched from the hands of dead men.
>>96751522In fact his head was kept as a morbid curiosity by various owners long afterwards.
>>96751522>he had to fight two civil wars to install himself as 'Lord Protector' (king).Pretending that the English Civil Wars were personal crusades initiated and led by Oliver Cromwell is absurdly braindead
The current state of Britain is divine punishment for the many sins of the Englishman over the years.
>>96751814Why the fuck are the Irish getting dirkallahed as well if it's divine punishment?
>>96751522>Britain didn't even exist at the timeWhat the actual fuck are you talking about? Wales had been formally brought into the Kingdom under Henry VIII, who also established a Kingdom of Ireland to be ruled by the King/Queen of England, and the accession of James I brought Scotland into a personal union with England. The Commonwealth governed all 4 nations, Cromwell's official constitutional role was as, "Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland, and the dominions thereto belonging"
>>96751774Pretending that's what I said is absurdly braindead. He used the civil wars to personally gain power for himself and his dynasty. Only an oxygen thief could not comprehend that.
>>96750095You are not a westerner
>>96751857>Pretending that's what I said I don't need to pretend, you literally said he fought the wars to install himself as sovereign, when that is fundamentally not what happened. Even glossing over things like his attempt to resign his commission after the Self-Denying Ordinance, Cromwell didn't even come around to the idea of forcing Charles to abdicate until the Second ECW ffs>He used the civil wars to personally gain power for himselfAs opposed to... what? All those participants who used the Civil Wars to lower their family's status and power?
>>96751856You will notice that Britian is not in there you mong? Britian didn't exist until the acts of union 1707. There is a difference between an occupation, a personal union, and a unified people, not that you would understand. To suggest he is a hero to the British people when the majority of the 'British' you're including were opposing him is absurd. Particularly if the idea of a British people didn't even fucking exist at the time.
>>96751965>You will notice that Britian is not in there you mong?>Particularly if the idea of a British people didn't even fucking exist at the time.Do you think the concept of 'Britain' sprang out of the aether in 1707? For fuck's sake, the term 'British Empire' was coined be John Dee, it's not something invented wholesale by a bit of legislation which just formalised something which had existed for a long time beforehand
Wow, that's all very cool and interesting! One question though. What does this bitchy bickering have to do with traditional games?
>>96752005Why do you think it was called "The Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland" and not, say, "British Protectorate"?Oh, right, I asked you to think, sorry for that
>>96752005John Dee was talking about oversea's colonies in America not occupying neighbouring nations. The idea that Scots, Irish, Welsh and the English were all one people was something that was not commonly shared by pretty much anyone in Cromwells time. That might be why they were different, self-governing nations? That might be why he went to go occupy those other nations? Maybe? British identity was absolutely something applied, not just developing naturally. They didn't fucking invite an occupation and ask England to suppress their own religions and culture to 'formalise' a national identify they already held. Please, please think.>>96752069Absolutely nothing but someone is being wrong on the internet.
>>96752005The concept of Britain, as unified kingdom, sprung after William of Orange died. They realised they have NOBODY to fill up the Scottish throne and that basically created yet another springboard for French invasion with Catholic claimants. Prior to that, they had no problem with it, because they had Stuarts at home and William was handy as a successor, since he wasn't Catholic and at war with France anyway.It was a political construct created out of necessity, simply to once and for all settle the fact they owned Scotland for centuries, but had to govern it as separated entity with all sort of bullshit laws to deal with and intact clan structures that made things hard to handle.The concept of British, as a single people, was the late 18th century concept, developed as a concession between largely Anglicised landed class of Scotland and English to finally sort shit out and stop having petty, idiotic obstacles for each other at making money. It didn't take until Napoleonic era, where it became useful for war-time propaganda.Next thing, you gonna be surprised that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (note the name, it neatly ties with the issue) was first a fucking personal union (that was on and off affair, since there were times it was split apart) and then a feudal-style conglomerate that wasn't sorted out until the tail end of 18th century, as an unified entity only to cease to exist 3 years later.
>>96752005>>96752212Oh, and keep in mind - the Act of Union was EXPLICITLY about English and Scottish kingdoms. Ireland was just the land England owned as a separate client state, governed by a viceroy - and as such, was de jure excluded from even trying to make it part of the union of kingdoms, as de facto, there was no kingdom to unite with (even if the title existed)
>>96748103I don't know if you intended it OP but phenomenal bait thread. Well done.
>>96750972Seething taig
>>96752133>>96752212>>96752234>scotland>seperate from englandstop ethnoLARPing>the Lowlands were historically referred to as “the Lands of the English in the Kingdom of the Scots” by Medieval chroniclers>Bede referred to lands south of the Firth of Forth as England>French chroniclers stated the ethnic border between the Scottish and English was the Firth of Forth>the Gaelic word for the Lowlands translates as “the Place of the Foreigner”>the Gaelic word for a Lowlander translates as “stranger/foreigner/outlander/alien” and is the same word they used for other English and Norse, Normans and other foreigners>Gaels also simply referred to Lowlanders as “Saxons” as they did other EnglishBut yeah, you’re “pyoor ded Sco’ush n aw aht”… fucking joke.
>>96752133>The idea that Scots, Irish, Welsh and the English were all one people was something that was not commonly shared by pretty much anyone in Cromwells time. That might be why they were different, self-governing nations? That might be why he went to go occupy those other nations? Maybe? British identity was absolutely something applied, not just developing naturally. They didn't fucking invite an occupation and ask England to suppress their own religions and culture to 'formalise' a national identify they already held. Please, please think.Wales was not a seperate nation from England at the time. Shows how little you know about history>occupyCromwell''s occupation of scotland was relatively liberal by all standards and cromwell as a dissenter respected the scottish presbyterians>culturethe only part of scottish """culture""" that cromwell suppressed was the persecution of witches >>96752212>They realised they have NOBODY to fill up the Scottish throne and that basically created yet another springboard for French invasion with Catholic claimantsNigga do you think the scots would accept a catholic claimant as a king? Most scots were presbyterians even more zealously anti catholic than the english. The only exception were some highlanders and some episcopalians from the northeast.>clan structuresClan identity is fake and was invented in the victorian era
>>96752324>Clan identity is fake and was invented in the victorian eraWasn't it from the Regency rather than the Victorian?
>>96752347It began with the ossian poems in the 1760s, intensified with george IV visit to scotland but it became extremely popular in the victorian era with the rise of the sobieski stuarts
>>96752288>Several points which show everyone even foreigners considered English identity and the Anglinizing impact they pursude as a seperate identity and no mention of British identity anywhere.Thank you for agreeing. Shame you had to make a strawman but still ultimately disproved your argument.
>>96752288>>96752324(You)
>>96748103>Tfw my setting is a little Minnesota town between St. Paul and Rochester. Well, that's one way to get the combat system a try.
>>96752324>Nigga do you think the scots would accept a catholic claimant as a kingNigga do you think French or their claimants cared?We still had had Jacobine uprisings almost 40 years after the Act of Union, and instantly followed by French-designated, Catholic claimants.
>>96752415You're pretending as if the jacobite risings were a legitimate threat rather than a way for the french to distract british troops by sponsoring regional uprisings.
>>96752403Cope>My theme in this, and the following chapter, is the history of this process of innocent ritualisation in Scotland: the process whereby the customs and costumes of the Scottish Highlanders, previously despised as barbarous, and at one time formally extinguished, were resumed, elaborated and extended. Thus, today, the kilt and the tartan are regarded as the traditional dress of historic Scotland: Lowland Scots imagine themselves as members of ‘clans’, and visitors from England are welcomed by the noise of bagpipes, and must struggle to read road signs in Irish lettering. T>The process was the work of a well-defined era: the century from 1745 to 1845. Before 1745, the Highlanders and all their customs were disowned and despised by every articulate Scotchman. After 1845 the Highland takeover was complete. The voice of protest, and of historical truth, was often raised; but it was always powerless. Romanticism might lose its power; but then tourism and commercialism would take over its legacy, extending and vulgarising it in detail. Today it is fixed in the elaborate rituals of Scots abroad, and in the well-stocked souvenir shops of Lowland Scotland.
>>96752415There is a reason the Jacobites started their Rebellions in the Scottish Highlands, which is entirely due to the number of Catholics and Episcopalians in the region and why the Law passed after the 1745 rebellion included only allowing Presbyterianism in Scotland
>>96752127>Why do you think it was called "The Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland" This is just myopic nonsense, it's like saying 'Germany' didn't exist as an idea, a political concept, a place, a people, etc. until the German Reich was established, because there was never a formal 'Nation of Germany'Fuck, even if you want to play the deconstructionist word games, when James I acceded to the throne he actively pushed to be recognised as 'King of Great Britain', a concept going back to Athelstan>>96752133>John Dee was talking about oversea's colonies in AmericaRight, 'British Empire' obviously never really referred to Britain herself. The Empire was, right to the end, exclusively an 'overseas' thing. That's not the point being made, the point is that there was a conception of a single 'Britain' which was now unifying and beginning to reach out across the globe>The idea that Scots, Irish, Welsh and the English were all one people was something that was not commonly shared by pretty much anyone in Cromwells time>The concept of British, as a single people, was the late 18th century concept,In its current form, definitely, but even that was a development of something which had existed for a very, very long time beforehand>They didn't fucking invite an occupation and ask England to suppress their own religionsNo, they didn't. Instead, their nobility intermarried with the English nobility, so that you had Welsh-descended Tudors and Scottish Stuarts sitting on the throne of England, governing the nations together>They didn't fucking invite an occupation and ask England to suppress their own religions Note that it was Charles Stuart who suppressed the Scottish CovenantersThis fucking turn towards 'we wuz so oppressed n sheeiit' nonsense from Scots and Welsh is just pathetic
OK fess up, which of you guys in this thread were out painting roundabouts this year?
>>96748212There’s the English Civil Wars, with the related invasion of Ireland and a revolt by the Scottish Covenanters, as well as a war with Spain, capturing Jamaica and fighting alongside French forces against the Spanish and English Royalists in the Battle of the Dunes near Dunkirk.
>>96748212Kicked the fuck out of the Dutch, innit
>>96752212You’re forgetting the part where the Scottish government bankrupted itself trying to colonize Panama.>>96752234This particular argument falls flat when there was another Act of Union in 1800 to incorporate Ireland into Great Britain.
>>96752754>the Scottish government bankrupted itself trying to colonize Panama.led by the guy who founded the Bank of England as well
>>96752754Are either of those points at all relevant? Does Scotland bankrupting themselves means they were actually British all along? Does Ireland being annexed into the UK after 150 years of occupation mean they were actually British all along? Do you even remember what the original points made in this thread were?
>>96752810I don’t care about that retard’s arguments, I’m asking you to clarify what changed in the intervening century that made it necessary to fully incorporate Ireland into Britain in 1800 if there was no need to do it in 1707.
>>96752713That war was actually pretty funny because Cromwell wanted to be friends with them but it quickly soured.
Staunch nationalists will always claim regional identities don't exist. They do the same in Spain despite the country having different languages and cultures.
>>96752868Everyone who was in 1707 being dead and forgotten in 1800? Do you think the social and political situation of 2025 is the exact same as 1925?
>>96752892>Do you think the social and political situation of 2025 is the exact same as 1925?No, that’s why I’m asking. You can just give a straight answer instead of trying to be glib, you know. Obviously the situation is going to be different, I’m asking how and why.
>>96752999Several generations of rulership designed to Anglicanise and bring the surrounding nations fully under England's elite's control. To make these foreign people ultimately the same as them or at least the people they rule over. You could, and many scholars have, filled books with how this was done. I felt the point was self-evident. If you really are only encountering that concept now, one which many nations have engaged in through history, in this thread then I don't believe you. Why? Why does any person or group of people seek dominion over another. The reasons will be complex and vary depending on precisely who we are talking about. But again, I'm sure you can comprehend why.
>>96752424No, you are making that claim.I just pointed out that even the Act of Union didn't prevent the French from meddling. I never state the range, size or danger of those events. But the point of the AoU was to decrease and preferably remove outright bullshit with French-backed pretenders.
>>96752560>it's like saying 'Germany' didn't exist as an idea, a political concept, a place, a people, etc. until the German Reich was established,It literally didn't. And majority of members were completely against the idea, being very content being their own, separate state. Which is also why the Reich itself was a confederation, not a federal or unified state.It's like arguing with a 15 yo kid who just is grasping the concept that nationalism is something that got invented by French during their Revolution and then became very useful for mustering armies to fight AGAINST said French.
>>96753188I don't think some of the people in this thread understand that nationalism and national identity is a relatively modern concept.
>>96753160>Several generations of rulership designed to Anglicanise and bring the surrounding nations fully under England's elite's controlPlease tell me how English Rulers anglicised scotlandFucking spastic
>>96750194>>mass murderer*so was every English figure in history
>>96753211nta but the closest was probably James the First of Scotland since he spent 18 years as a prisoner in the English court, and spent most of his reign anglicising Scotland, trying to diminish the power of Highland Nobility and improving Scotland's relationship with England but as you say he's not a English ruler
>>96753246>JAMES THE 1ST DESPITE BEING SCOTTISH WAS LE...ENGLISHAbsolute fucking spastic. Lowlanders had been trying to diminish highland power for hundreds of years. Lowlanders always hated highlanders.>On the rare occasions when the Celtic tribes of Scotland were noticed by those Saxons or Normans who established themselves in the country and gradually created some kind of government there, it was merely as savages. When the Anglo-Norman baron, King David of Scotland, invaded England in 1138, he was met by a fellow Anglo-Norman baron, Robert Bruce, the grandfather of the later Scottish hero, who remonstrated with him for using native mercenaries: ‘Picts’ of Galloway. To involve the blacks in customary colonial competitions was not gentlemanly. The same crime was committed, five centuries later, by Montrose, who was never forgiven for leading Highland tribesmen against the civilised towns of the east. Royalism might be a respectable cause; but to introduce Highlanders into constitutional struggles was going too far. ‘The Highlanders’, said James VI summarily, in describing his own subjects for the enlightenment of his son, are ‘barbarous for the most part’, the islanders ‘utterly barbarous’.1 A century later, the great Scottish patriot, Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun, looked upon them in the same way: to him they were the ‘wretched Highlanders’: few, worthless, and contemptible.2 >In general, the attitude of the Lowlanders to the Highlanders was that of the Romanised Britons to the Picts. They relied on a limes, a ‘Highland line’, beyond which the inaccessible barbarians, who were not worth conquering, were left to themselves. The function of government was not to penetrate, or transform, or even chart those inhospitable wastes, but simply to seal them off.
This guy revived Scottish culture by the way.
>>96753298And he himself was a lowlander who, despite popularising highland scot culture, did not attempt to rewrite all of scottish history as being completely gaelic.Walter Scott had more sense than 99% of modern day scottish nationalists.
>>96753211We were talking about Ireland but OK here's a few things to get you started again you can fill books with this, not that you would bother to read them. Similar stuff happened in both Ireland and Wales.1746 Dress Act- many traditional forms of clothing banned on pain of exile or imprisonment.1715 Disarming Act, 1746 Act of Proscription- People in Scotland and only Scotland banned from carrying weapons. With special care taken to ban culturally significant Scottish weapons. Also banning the use of Gaelic.It should be noted that English people had been banned from learning or using Gaelic since 1367 as they felt there was a danger of English settlers and overlords being naturalised and not imposing rule anymore.1708 Abolition of the Scottish Privy Council- The Scottish equivalent of parliament central to its rule. Self rule was removed and governance of Scotland was done purely through Westminister.Cromwell's invasion, obviously, when they tried to crown a monarch who was not English in case you forgot the context.But let's face it you know you're being disingenuous. No doubt you are going to claim how all Scottish people absolutely wanted these things as they were already British. That none of these things were there to increase the power of English culture or rule. You win, I cannot argue pass your nationalism because you have abandoned any semblance of reality or fact. Congratulations. >>96753272The lowlanders were anglicanised. They moved to the lowlands from northern England, this was absolutely a form of English culture imposing itself on the rest of the British Isles. Nothing implicitly wrong with people moving about but over the years the lowlands of Scotland were increasing under the sphere of English culture.
>>96753188>>96753210The German Reich was preceded by the German Confederation, which was preceded by a Holy Roman Empire whose sovereign was at various times titled Imperator Germanorum, Rex Germaniae, and Rex Teutonicorum. To deny that there was a concept of a 'Germany' and 'Germans' prior to Bismarck is just wilful fucking ignorance>nationalism is something that got invented by French during their Revolution>nationalism and national identity is a relatively modern conceptThis take will always be pure and simple horseshite, that serves only to deconstruct European identities
>>96753160Thanks, that explains it a bit better. I was hoping for slightly more detail and less glib vagueness, but it’s sufficient for a /tg/ thread. Any recommendations on those books that have been written about it?
>>96753554That guy wasn’t me, I stepped away to work on some models. Thanks for going into detail about Scotland, nonetheless.
>>96753554>1746 Dress Act- many traditional forms of clothing banned on pain of exile or imprisonment.>1715 Disarming Act, 1746 Act of Proscription- People in Scotland and only Scotland banned from carrying weapons. With special care taken to ban culturally significant Scottish weapons. Also banning the use of Gaelic.Enforced and supported by lowland scots.English people did not give a shit about the highlands or highlanders.>1708 Abolition of the Scottish Privy Council- The Scottish equivalent of parliament central to its rule. Self rule was removed and governance of Scotland was done purely through Westminister.Scottish people could be part of westminster. Ergo scots still had self rule>Cromwell's invasion, obviously, when they tried to crown a monarch who was not English in case you forgot the context.The "based stuarts" you simp for proceeded to slaughter and massacre covenanters at a scale that dwarfed what happened to jacobites. But of course that goes against your LARP.>The lowlanders were anglicanised. They moved to the lowlands from northern England, this was absolutely a form of English culture imposing itself on the rest of the British Isles. Nothing implicitly wrong with people moving about but over the years the lowlands of Scotland were increasing under the sphere of English culture.The lowlanders were not "anglicanised". They were descendents of Anglo Northumbrian settlers that had been in scotland before england ever existed as a national state. They didn't "move from north england to the lowlands", they arrived on the shores of what is now east lothian at the same time the scots from ireland were settling and displacing the picts.EthnoLARPing spastic
>>96753554And it's funny seeing you LARP and pretend the scots were an oppressed people when the AMERICAN REVOLUTION of all things happened because colonial englishmen were tired of the scotch junto in britain>>The situation in the colonies in early 1776 also provided a background against which Highlanders could easily be thought of as a threat to the cause of independence. Lowland Scotch and Scotch Irish were in the forefront of the move for independence, but Highlanders probably were more loyal to the Royal cause, and more ready to take up arms against rebellious colonists, than were any other ethnic group. A gentleman of Philadelphia wrote on May 18, 1776, to a friend in England: "Believe me, Sir, these [demands for independence] are the sentiments of all degrees of men in British America, a few tattered Scotch Highlanders excepted, who have lately emigrated, and whose ignorance, feudal notions and attachment to names> keeps them servile and wholly at the beck of their Chiefs. .. . In this Province, English, Scotch, and Irish, are equally engaged in the great cause of liberty. Indeed many of the Scotch have particularly signalized themselves in the cause of freedom.">The British authorities made the most of this local situation. In early 1776 Highlanders were active with the forces of Sir John Johnson in the Mohawk Valley, and some 300 were forced to throw down their arms by General Philip Schuyler.10 In North Carolina Highlanders made up a large part of a Tory force raised by Governor Martin that was defeated by colonial militia at Moore's Creek on February 27, 1776. News of the Highlanders' defeat reached General Washington at Cambridge, and in a letter of April 1, 1776, to Joseph Reed he spoke of "those universal instruments of tyranny, the Scotch."11
>>96753554>>96754150>When the Declaration of Independence was drafted and debated in the closing days of June and early July, Americans were familiar with the German treaties, and the Hessians were already on the high seas headed for New York, where the British after their evacuation of Boston were preparing an attack. However, no Hessian had set foot on American soil, and no shots had been exchanged between them and the colonials. But with Scotch Highlanders Americans had already come face to face as enemies, and blood had been shed. Early in 1776 some 3,000 Highland troops had set sail from Greenock, most of them headed for Boston. When they arrived, General Howe had already evacuated that hotbed of rebellion. So, early in June four of the transports, with nearly 500 Highlanders, were taken prisoner by the Americans, but only after Major Menzies and seven Highland soldiers had been killed and several Americans wounded. Word of conflict with the Highlanders, and their capture, spread throughout the colonies. The Highlanders were buried to the dirge of bagpipes, and the captured officers were marched up the streets of Boston. The prisoners were widely dispersed. A captured Highland officer wrote to a friend in England: "As it was thought improper for us to remain at a seaport, we were ordered sixty miles up the country .. . on our journey no slaves were ever served as we were; through every village, town, and hamlet that we passed, the women and children, and indeed some men among them, came out and loaded us with the most rascally epithets, calling us "rascally cut-throat dogs, murtherers, blood hounds &. &." But what vexed me most was their continual slandering of our country (Scotland), on which they threw the most infamous invectives; to this abuse they added showers of dirt and filth, with now and then a stone.5"
>>96753734>the German Confederation, which was preceded by a Holy Roman EmpireAmerican education, everyone>Rest of the postHere is the (You)Let me break it for you, since you clearly never heard this one prior:Pretending to be retarded is no different than being retarded. It's just being stupid for different reason.
>>96753734>There was once this mighty kingdom>We are all descendants of it>This is why you should now join our country and its government>Because we are one big family>This is all totally legit and we aren't pulling at straws to land-grab you, swear!How hard is this to grasp?HRE covered Lower Countries, large sections of Northern Italy, FUCKING BOHEMIA and then there is the matter of where exactly Habsburg domain stops being HRE and is its own thing.Not to mention HRE ceased to exist around Napoleonic times.You want to know who invented the whole concept of those Rhine Confederations and other similar concepts?The French.Not because they were secretly Germanophiles, but because reshaping the landscape of all those tiny duchies and principaties meant they could tax the shit out of them and establish an unified toll union, which meant shipping shit down the Rhine was cheaper and thus made even more income to be taxed.And they could impose their own orders on those backward fuckholes that were vast majority of former HRE members circa 1805.Those people didn't even speak the same language (German to this day has extreme local dialects, especially outside former DDR), just one from the same family.The entire grand concept of German unification is the fallout of Napoleonic period, since various SMALL players saw it as a way to better their own positions, and in the same time Prussians saw it as a way to get a fuckhuge swath of land for free. Add to this Bavaria and Wuttenberge, who were adamant on staying their own, Hamburgs in the Austria playing their game and the coastal areas that would rather have a league of their own, pretty much thinking about re-starting Hansa.The Confederation you are using was a fucking toll league, started by Prussians, so they could ship coal cheaper, using the same scheme French did 50 years prior.But apparently, this was all done due to romantic sentiment to emperor Otto I, cause that's what made those people come together
My game is actually set in a pseudo-historical version of sub-Roman Britain, where Ireland was split off as a result of a giant's curse. The setting is influenced by the works of Poul Anderson, with Faerie being its own overlapping dimension, with an ongoing war between the forces of Law (man and human-adjacent) and Chaos (Faerie and paynim), so a Puritan Commonwealth led by the fervently zealous Cromwell overlapping my version of Britain would actually tilt the scales in Law's favor, as belief in the One is anathematic to the forces of pagan Faerie and its paynim allies.
>>96754286>American education???The German Confederation was the political league formed in the aftermath of the HRE being dissolved to prevent Napoleon seizing the throne. How fucking thick are you? Are you legit just going to deny the continuity between them?>>96754361>HRE covered Lower Countries, large sections of Northern Italy, FUCKING BOHEMIAYeah, which resulted problems stemming from all the Germans who still lived there in the '30s/'40s in case you missed it. Those Germans didn't vanish into inexistence just because they were excluded from Bismarck's map >Not to mention HRE ceased to exist around Napoleonic times.Yes, and was eventually succeeded by the German Confederation, like I just said>You want to know who invented the whole concept of those Rhine Confederations and other similar concepts?>The French.Unless you're trying to suggest that the whole region was just arbitrarily lumped together by the French based on nothing, absent any prior history, this is a retardedly useless point. The Confederation of the Rhine was just reorganising 'Germany' (such that it was at the time) as a French client, not constructing it wholesale out of thin air>The entire grand concept of German unification is the fallout of Napoleonic period>But apparently, this was all done due to romantic sentiment No, it was done because these WERE the German lands, these WERE the German people. Of course there were practical, material motivations to it, as with all statecraft, but they didn't exist in the total absence of centuries of shared history you absolute, braindead gimp. You are outright listing all the ways this region remained 'Germany', even in spite of radical political upheaval completely changing the way it was administered again and again, but acting like it's evidence of its inexistence prior to 1871
>>96754592>cromwell>puritanism>sub-roman britainare you retarded?and the anglo saxons at the time of the romano britons were pagans while the romano britons were fervent christians. king arthur is literally a christian hero with the virgin mary on his shield fighting against pagan saxons
>>96754592Thank you for trying to contribute to the thread in an intelligent mater. It's past the English nationalists' bedtime now they should be gone soon to dream of shouting at hotels and vandalising roundabouts. Pay them no mind, they are just upset that they will never get the opportunity to slob on Cromwell's knob and have their fathers tell them they are proud of them.
>>96754660I think we're having a communication error. My game is set in Britain. OP says Cromwell's Commonwealth appears, so it would replace the British Isles of my setting. And, wasn't Cromwell a Puritan?
>>96755025Cope LARPerScotland is not a Celtic nation; the overwhelming majority of Scots are Lowlanders who are genetically purer Anglo-Saxons than most Englishmen. There are more Flemings in Scotland than Celts. The traditional language of Scotland, Lowland Scots, comes from the dialects of English spoken in Scotland since BEFORE the Normans, who never conquered Scotland. This has made Scottish dialects more Anglo-Saxon than England proper. Even when Normans were eventually invited to Scottish courts, they brought their Anglo-Saxon serfs with them, which only increased the existing Anglo-Saxon stock of Scotland.England has more Celtic genes, Celtic loanwords, Celtic syntax, et cetera than Scottish English/Scots – some parts of England even use Celtic numerals.The only distinct part of Scotland is the Highlands which have a miniscule population and themselves think nationalists are cringe traitors. Even half the Highland clans were founded by Englishmen, Normans, and Flemings – to say nothing of who founded the Lowland Families.Scottish nationalism is a product of self-hating cosmopolitan CBD neds with no culture who dedicate their lives to one-upping England at every opportunity because they would otherwise contribute to Scotland's incredible suicide rate. If these shitcunts declare independence then the British Army, Loyalist militias, and 10,000s of blokes from all over the Commonwealth will come to Scotland to put you down.>You will never speak Gaelic (because you're a lazy deadshit communist who wouldn't even try)>You will never be in a clan>You will never be a Jacobite>You will never be ethnically Celtic>You will never be independent>You will always speak English>You will always have an Anglo culture>You will always sing God Save the King>You will always be an ethnic Fleming>You will always be British
>>96755025The main guy calling everyone spastic didn't seem to be an English national, more someone who had a bee in their bonnet about Scottish nationals having a colonial victim complex about their history and forcing Gaelic language in places that didn't historically speak Gaelic in scotland
>>96755092>North Berkshirer on a meltdown
>>96753554>No doubt you are going to claim how all Scottish people absolutely wanted these thingsHe did exactly that lol.
>>96748103Due to having better firearms than my vaguely 1500's era setting, they stand a chance at all, but the rest of the world catches up pretty soon. Magecraft + equal firearms and they're fucked.They'd probably end up like North Korea but without the nukes. Or any way of defending their country really.
>>96755166What makes you think the guy is from East Lothian?
>>96755169>He did exactly that lol.Are you suggesting that lowland scots didn't hate highlanders?Lying LARPer. You're probably not even an actual scot you're probably a taig celtics fan from glasgow
>>96755212I said North BerkshireThat north-eastern past of Berk, just up over M4>What makes you think the guy is from thereBecause he's a raging Anglo.
>>96755244My mistake just seems oddly specific
>>96755244>angloLowland scots are anglos though >>96752288
>>96755259This thread has taught me two very important things:1. The United Kingdom isn't an island as much as it's a several million person toxic polycule.2. Just Smile, nod and answer all posts in gaelic.
You sure? Did you post before refreshing and not see his continued meltdown? No one in the thread has argued that the Scots were nothing but colonial victims, history is never so black and white. He has spased out about it and created some strawmen to shadowbox. The Scots were absolutely part of Britain's Colonial project and England and their immediate predecessors the Anglo tribes absolutely spent hundreds of years, both before and after Cromwell, trying to impose their culture and rule on everyone and everything around them. Quite successfully to be honest. Both of these things can be true, and both of them are objective facts. It's just not worth trying to argue every single one of a person points when they are deep in the throes of delusion and nationalism. You are never going to get through he has staked his very identity on this, questioning a 17th century dictators actions is an existential threat to his understanding of his own worth. >>96755169Yeah, they are pretty predictable. I put that there as I knew he could not make a coherent argument without stumbling directly into it.
>>96755304>spoilerjust so long as it's Scottish Gaelic instead of Irish
>>96755311>Colonial project and England and their immediate predecessors the Anglo tribes absolutely spent hundreds of years, both before and after Cromwell, trying to impose their culture and rule on everyone and everything around themAgain with this pathetic ethnoLARPPretending that scotland was invaded and settled by "English" people before england ever even existedDenying the fact that angles settled scotland before the anglo saxn kingdoms had ever united.Peak scottish derangment and mental illness. You will never be a genuine nation. You will always be a lowland anglo northumbrian bernician. All the ethnoLARPing and kilt wearing you can do will never change that fact.
>>96755259>oddly specificIt's really not.Ever be in Berkshire? If you been, you would know.Pro-tip: don't go there.>>96755288>Berkie still on meltdown
>>96755323*ابتسم وأومئ برأسك*
>>96755353>taig still seething
>>96755092see how the angloid seethes that you identify more with your own country than with his
>>96755092English has much more in common with French, syntactically and grammatically, and even borrows several words from French. England did not truly come together until you were invaded my smelly Frenchoid vikings and raped into submission. Your culture was shaped by french artisans and your politics were shaped by french politicians.You will never be Anglo-Saxon, nor Celt, nor Irish. You are a Frenchman with rotten teeth, and an ugly, malformed tongue that lost all of its poetic beauty, in exchange for world domination I guess (not a bad deal desu)
It's a shame that a cool idea for a thread should come to such an ignoble and pathetic end as this.
>>96754150>AMERICAN REVOLUTIONWas it even a revolution if it was started monarchist who were exiled into a colony named after monarch?
>>96756088It's a bit like watching a ACW rpg thread descend into shitposting about the historical event and none of us know enough about british cuisine to derail it with a BBQ argument.
>>96750062Gay.
>>96755578>>96755733Big Cope
>>96756238It's not even a shitpost about the English Civil War, the Covenanters, or the Marquesses of Montrose, it's one anon ranting about how Celtic or not Scotland is
>>96757518Cope? As in colper, from Old French? Hon, hon, hon! I see the Frenchman inside of you is trying to break free.
