>i make an optimized pc>other players make shitty gimmick pcs>they have the gall to complain that I'm "overpowered" abd "stealing the spotlight"I blame theater kids for the propagation of this crab bucket mentality.
>>96751335>xitterpostingI don't know the situation, but am comfortable in assuming you're the asshole and the other players were in the right. Go drown in a ditch.
Posting twatter screenshot should result in an instant permaban.
>>96751335>i make an optimized pcpost it for critique and casters vs martial bit
>doesn't say what system or any details, clearly this shit didn't happen and OP is just making a lazy bid for attention>thread will probably reach bump limit anyway It's so tiresome.
>>96751335Optimized PCs are cool when you are new to a system, maybe your group is just a lot more experienced than you.
>>96751335>I want to do things different than everyone else>Why don't people like it?You're with a group of friends, agreeing to participate in a group activity. You want to play it differently than the rest of the group does.That's all this really comes down to, anon. Are you right or wrong to do so? Well, since it's a group activity, the right way to go about this would be to talk to the group about expectations, and work together to make sure everyone is on the same page.Just act like an adult.
>>96751335Post build, post system, post party.
>>96751335This didn't happen, you are nogames
>>96751335I'm going to be one of the numerous people calling OP out on being a liar and a coward, because he provided no details such as what system or the builds of him and his party. And until he coughs up that info to be scrutinized, I'm declaring him the one in the wrong. If it even happened at all. Don't blame me, that's just how it works here.
>>96751335You sound like a faggot and I hope your group had fun after they kicked you out.
FUN FACT:Crabs hold on to each other as a defense mechanism! Rays and skates eat crabs by grabbing them from above, so the crabs hold tight so no-one gets eaten!
>>96751449infinite cope LOL
>>96751455Or alternatively they could just use a system where you can't accidentally make other players irrelevant just by making intelligent decisions.
>>96751565Sure, but who gives a shit? Play games.>>96751534That is a fun fact. I was not aware of it. I like knowing that.
>>96751350fippy bippy
>>96751335If you are making an optimized PC in a group that likes gimmicks, always make a primarily healer/support character instead of combat.Your character will be adored instead of hated because you increase the potency of their gimmicks when those work, while fixing the downsides in others.
That's fine. Munchkin gets to deal with the toughest threats, then they can go doomscroll on their phone while everyone else is having fun.
Have you tried playing older ed of D&D? How can you be overpowered when only the Cleric can heal and only the Fighter can use all weapons?
>>96751574Everyone whose character has been made irrelevant by bad design cares, obviously. The OP cares, since it fucked up the gameplay experience for him and his group, obviously. Retard.
>>96751600Why should you have to choose between being effective and playing the sort of character you want to play?
>>96751600This. You'll still get a lot of recognition for being useful, and you won't get in a way of more casual players who often just wanna stab shit.
>>96751652He only plays sloppa like 3.PF or 5e, probably. Frankly he's playing those right, those systems are fundamentally hostile to non-minmaxers.
>>96751653>Just play a different gameIsn't a real suggestion, anon. That's not how groups of players decide to play games. "Well I want to powergame, so let's pick a different system than the one that the GM knows and runs so that I'm not forced to make the choice of whether to powergame or not" is a fucking stupid suggestion.
>>96751665Not this.
>>96751667No, you certainly can choose which games you sign up for and which games you run.
>>96751335Well? What are the builds? Let's see em.
>>96751534Based crabs. This is why the crab cycle is eternal.
>>96751335What system are you playing? Post your sheet.
>>96751840You are playing with other people, duh. This is a social game. Yet another problem that could be solved by just talking to other people instead of being walked all over.
>>96751876Did you mean to reply to someone else? This has nothing to do with what I asked.
>>96751876well?
>>96751937>>96751970Don't be so impatient.
>>96751985Final warning.
>>96751991lol
>>96751894>why should I have to choose between being *optimized* and playing the sort of character you want to play?because you are playing with other people, duh. My perspective comes from being a DM, there is nothing worse than one powergaming fuckhead in a group of otherwise RP focused characters because you basically have to design encounters to either shut out the powergamer or give the powergamer a specific enemy to 1v1. Or you end up doing some bullshit like giving Bart the RP Bard powerful armor or something so that he doesn't get one shot to the monsters that you will need to bring in. Powergamers in a powergamer game are different. You can actually throw challenges at them that are appropriate and honestly these groups are more fun to DM for anyway.TLDR: ur playing with other people for better or ill.
>>96751335D&D and similar team-based combat games are pretty much the worst choice for munchkin-ing because no matter what. the baseline design decision to balance combat mechanics and action economy around party-based play means that one person, even hyper-optimized, can't just carry the whole party.Ironically RP-heavy systems like WoD are better for munchkining because then people will just let you handle all the fighting while they specialize in the other stuff.
>>96752041I agree with thisI'd add that being carried through combat can be a very boring experience depending on the system just due to how much time a combat encounter can take, even one that isn't that challenging.
>2 hours and 42 minutes later>OP has still not posted builds, system, or even alluded to being anything other than a nogames spamming faggot subhuman
>>96752033That didn't answer my question. How did you get from "there are other players" to "it must be the case that it's possible to make a character that makes other players irrelevant"?
>>96752041So what will a non combat character do when they have to fight and the other players aren't around?
>>96753635Non-combat character player here, it goes something like:Negotiate, try to run away, fight like a cornered rat, die, etc.
>>96752041Why would you design a game so poorly that players are forced to choose between being good at fighting and being good at what they're actually interested in?
>Go to party>People playing Smash Bros.>Pick what you want, items on, everyone running Hyrule being a goofball>OP shows up>FOX ONLY NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION>Nobody wants to deal with his autism>AHHHHH CRABS IN A BUCKET FUCKING THEATRE KIDS SAVE ME GARY GYGAX
>>96753951Who are you quoting?
>>96752033I can always opt to play my guy worse, the party can never opt to play their shit builds better. Not that i have any obligation to do that though>you're stealing our spotlight!Bro you made a deliberate and consious decision to be bad at this. I can always stop multiattacking and let these guys beat your asses down instead if that would make you feel better, but dont come crying to me when your incapable characters Start failing death saves>>96753784God forbid opportunity cost exist
>>96751534>The real crab mentality was the friends we made along the way<3
>>96752671>anon discovers a troll thread
>>96754023Nope, strawman. Opportunity costs can exist without forcing players to specialize in only one narrow niche that isn't even a valid way of interacting with 75% of the game world.
>>96754137Firstly thats not what a strawman isSecondly having a penalty for specializing in a single narrow niche is the textbook definition of opportunity cost
>>96754183Yes, your argument is a strawman. Implicit in its construction is the idea that opportunity cost automatically means you can only be good at one thing. This is false. Characters could be good at more than one thing in a game with opportunity costs. Do not lie again. Final warning.
>twitter screenshot threadMods = gays
>>96754214Thats genuinely so retarded that i cant tell if its bait or not
>>96754357Which part do you think is false, and why? I mean, I can show you examples of games that have opportunity costs where characters can be good at more than one thing, so I assume we must disagree on the meanings of one or more words being used.
>>96751350Earnest and Deserved.
>>96754366I never said you couldnt be good at multiple things, which is a meaningless concept in the first place since even a dedicated combat character who is broadly good at multiple facets of combat generally isnt capable of filling every specialist role. I said specialization bears opportunity cost, which you have interpreted, ironically, as a strawman that someone can only ever do one "thing" (scope of what a "thing" is remaining undefined)And whatever, its typical behavior for someone pretending to be retarded, but you... you're trying to hard. Someone trolling wouldnt put in this much effort
>>96754666Then why did you reply "God forbid opportunity cost exist" to the post "Why would you design a game so poorly that players are forced to choose between being good at fighting and being good at what they're actually interested in?"What do you disagree with? What is your actual position?
>>96754357You seriously can't tell whether a guy telling someone "final warning" on 4chan is a troll?
>>96754757You seriously can't explain what you actually disagree with?
>>96751350based
>>96751335I never understood the crab in a bucket mentality until recently.my favorite blackpill YouTuber got a girlfriend. What the hell man? I thought it was over, I thought it never started. I honestly feel betrayed by one of the niggas that was like me.
>>96754841I don't get it, why wouldn't you be happy for him?
>>96754852>oh look, there's someone out there just like me>oh look, there's nobody like me out there You can feel happy for someone else and abandoned by your parasocial "he's just like me fr" at the same time.
Sounds like you should improve yourself then. He did it, so you can too.
>>96754023>I can always opt to play my guy worseThis is such a non-solution, its funny.
>>96751600Yup but guess what?Optimizers don't want to do that, because what they really want is the spotlight. That's why you get fags like the OP writing pretend stories to kick up content to farm from 4chan for his tiktoks.
>>96754892>he's just like meI would not want to hang out with or listen to someone like me.
>>96754892dude, can I give you some advice? Stop watching youtubers like that. These guys are milking your depression for ad revenue. They know if they can make you hate everyone around you, you'll sabotage every social interaction you have, and end up seeing them as the only ones who understand you.
Daily reminder they powergaming is pointless. The DM can throw anything he likes at you, be it a goblin or the Tarrasque. If you relax, you'll get encounters you can beat. If you sweat you'll get encounters you can beat but your fellow players can't contribute to. It's just a ride.
>>96754995>put effort into my character's mechanics>the gm puts effort into the encounters I fightsounds like a win-win
>>96754995Alternatively, you could stop playing bad games that fall apart just because the players make intelligent decisions.
>>96755008>another ettin comes through the door>Are you still above half health?>another ettin comes through the door>You're below half? Guess that was the last one. It's not much effort >>96755039True. I moved away from games where buildfaggotry is a thing, but I feel sympathy for those still stuck.
>>96751335this happened to me alot in 3.5 huge high school parties of 8 dudes, all rather competitive. My stock characters were quite good. I had the complete splats and the XPH and just picked up the game quite fast. Others took years to hit even half that level of system mastery. We had 2 players ( one was usually the DM) who abused 3.5 and 3.0 shapeshifting rules and some Prc that let u mix shapeshfting forms to make some truly horrible and overpowered shit. there was one dude who always wanted to take like 8 levels in a monster class too. The mindflayer nina was a sick character. When he couldnt get a far out monster race he would usually just be a druid. Good times. Some of the players who were worse at the game would just start cheating or bending the rules assuming thats what I was doing . people just take trap options and dont know the combat system very well.
>>96755039The intelligent decision would be playing a comparable 'power level' as your other party members bubby.There's actually very few scenarios where buildfagging minmaxing is the smart move.
>>96754995usually the minute I open my mouth it becomes my ride. Some DM's can't handle my enormous girthy veiny aura . Others are happy to see a strong personality in the game. Not every campaign is a ride on the train. Sometimes you are hacking through the sandbox with a machete
>>96755073that is so cringeydude i bet you felt like a total badass writing this too holy shit
b>>96755071If the game was good, you wouldn't have to worry about being at a different power level from everyone else. That would already be taken care of by the rules system. In fact, that's the bare minimum requirement of any roleplaying game system, to ensure that the players are on an even playing field.
>>96755054It has nothing to do with builds. Builds are fine. You build characters in every game. It is the result of the way the game and its systems are designed.
>>96755086>if the game was good-Well it's not. It's D&D. Are you done?
>>96755102No. Play a different game.
>>96755114I don't play D&Dogshit brother. You're the one on the side of the argument that a good system should be able to accommodate your buildfaggotry. If anything, anyone, YOU should be playing a different game lolDid you get confused?
>>96755139That text doesn't appear in the OP. Try again.
>>96755094Powergaming before the situation is buildfaggotry. Powergaming in the situation is just "strategy" and infinitely less annoying.
>>96755154Did you? My system has no balance issues. You should be playing a different game.
>>96755158You can't create a character during a situation. That's something that happens prior to gameplay.
>>96755165Not a solution and not /thread.
>>96755184No it doesn't. Post a screenshot or do not reply.
>>96755170Can you not read? I just told you I don't play D&D. I don't powergame either because I'm not socially retarded and the enjoyment of my peers during our game is more important to me than the numbers on my sheet, so even if I did play D&D I wouldn't need to change.Why would I need to play a different game? You actually are confused. Maybe it's time to log off before you start foaming or something.
>>96755203/unthread
>>96755218Apparently you can't. Don't bother replying, you're beneath me.
>>96755222Glad you agree that text doesn't appear in the OP and you're the illiterate one.
>96755231>no u>i win!Alright sonNo (You) for your anymore lol
>>96755236not a solution /unthread
>>96755247You lose.
>>96751335>Willingly goes to a table full of theatre kids>Makes an optimized build>Doesn't help the other players optimize their buildsNo, Anon. You are the assholes.
>>96755257No, the system is bad.
>>96755178I just said that you fucking retard.
>>96755266No you didn't. You said "powergaming before the situation is buildfaggotry". If you didn't think it was possible, why did you mention it as a possibility?
>>96755273not a solution /unthread
Why the hell do you keep feeding him (you)s.Oh wait a minute, because it's the same guy replying to himself. After all, jannies removed the poster count precisely to encourage such behaviour.
>>96755265OP didn't mention a system, but he did mention a table full of theatre kids. You are a blaggard befouled by devilry and lied. Honor demands you falling upon your blade.
>>96755284Only real solution, so /thread
>>96755297Why do you keep throwing tantrums when you lose arguments?
>>96755308It doesn't matter which system it is. Any system in which one character can make other characters of the same power level irrelevant is a bad system.
>>96755313not a solution /unthread
>>96755338Yes solution, the best solution, better than yours, better than you even/thread
>>96755330>All games with character customization are badOh, you're a gamelet or worse an osr-fag. You don't have opinions that matter.
>>96755347not a solution /unthread
>>96755355That's not what I said.
>>96755365You're just mad that my solution in this thread has aided humanity more than entire existence. /thread
>>96755378not a solution /unthread
>>96755383Best solution/thread
>>96755389not a solution /unthread
>>96751335>be me>at a table of mostly noobs>make a hyperoptimized pc>it doesn't ruin anybody's day since it's a support buildThe 2024 paladin is god tier.
>>96755398Best solution /thread
>>96755429not a solution /unthread
>>96755449Best solution/thread
>>96755469not a solution /unthread
>>96755487Best solution/thread
At first I wanted to comment seriously on this thread for some retarded reason, but then obviously realized that op is just baiting and everyone replying is also full of shit, so what's the point? What a trash fire /tg/ has become.
>>96755501not a solution /unthread
Games can have character customization and be balanced and have no trap options with no drawbacks or compromises. There's no excuse for bad design.
>>96756034I'm just mad at so many modern games holding your hand, making you a special little snowflake. You should be weak at some things! That's proper game design for a TTRPG.
>>96751380>posts in a shit thread>doesn't post a better threadyou get the board you deserve, slug
>>96755501>>96755535jerk yourself off somewhere else, faggot
>>96756046I didn't say you shouldn't have weaknesses. Christ you guys are so desperate to misinterpret everything.
>>96756046Can you even name three games that have customization that don't allow player characters to have any weaknesses?
>>96756099I'm a D&D gamer, so:>4eArguably garbage.>5eGarbage that is easier to understand, but still gets the most flies.>TravelerMy DM let us roll characters until we were happy, told me that's the standard way.
>>96756113Every one of those allows weaknesses.
>>96756116>AllowI'm allowed to eat dirt, doesn't mean that's a part of life. I want to feel weak, really weak, at at least one thing. Stealth, Strength, Magic? Something so I have to rely on others and we can't literally GROUP CHECK to sneak past two guards with a fully armored up Pal.
>>96756139That's weird, because my post didn't say anything other than "name three games that don't allow weaknesses". Can you do that or not?
>>96756139ANSWER ME IMMEDIATELY.
>shitpost thread is unusually active>look inside>two different pairs of retards having isolated slapfights
>>96756199You can't pretend to be a new poster. I have access to everyone's IP addresses.
I win.
>>96752033>Or you end up doing some bullshit like giving Bart the RP Bard powerful armor or something so that he doesn't get one shotnothing wrong with this. Only the power gamer would complain that you gave the weakest party member a 2D8 sword that grants an extra attack and dispels magic that's completely incompatible with the power gamer's build.If fact, the party would probably love that they're getting so many more pieces of cool loot to bring them up to par.
>>96751350>>96751374I briefly had a shitter because this one girl I fancied thought I should have one because I was funny and one thing I immediately started to notice was a lot of people on there farming likes about how “4chan is le based fighting le culture war” by taking screenshots from here while also noticing that those threads and posts usually went up a few minutes before they would post the screenshots in twitter. The same thing was also happening with twitter screenshots, people grabbed them immediately when they went up, posted them here and then went back to twitter to post people’s reactions on there. It’s just a bunch of grifters farming likes on twitter by posting their screencaps in here for engagement. None of this is genuine.
>>96751667it's the realest of all suggestions, let's be real
>>96757327It's hilarious that you don't understand what a damning indictment of the game and its developers this is
>>96751667So were you going to acknowledge that "you can't possibly choose which game to join or run" is a blatant lie?
>>96751350If OP was This Guy, he would take his power and use it to make the group better.
>>96757327Why doesn't this class receive what it needs to be relevant as a class feature, like casters do?
>>96751335But I'm a theater kid and I love optimized characters. You need the right actor for the job.
>>96751449What kind of cope is this? Gimmick characters are used as a defense mechanism because these players can't handle failing after earnestly trying. It's like making an extremely ugly, all sliders to the right character in a video game with a character creator.
>>96751350OP destroyed
>>96756047It's called +1 closer to the archive
>>96757337I thought you were talking about owning a fucking toilet.
>>96759773What a cute picture.
>>96751604More accurate: munchkin deals with the toughest threats, also has the most fun, dominating social and mental scenes..The thing that I love so much about these games is things like "witty dialogue," "solving puzzles," and "being able to read the book and see what's good" are all g-factor intelligence stuff so kids whose special skill is having a funny idea about "what if a barbarian was cowardly" inevitably end up at the bottom of every hierarchy - including funny ideas.Optimization is a total discipline. It is practiced by the best players. Envy is worthless. If you can't compete, admire.
>>96751335I've done this a few times. What I find more fun at this point is gauging the average power level of the party and then placing myself just high enough to be at the top. I want to know that I can still be productive and even carry the party, but it tests my optimization muscles in a different way and also ensures that people still feel like they're all helping even if reality I know I can go all out at any time and solve the problem.
>>96751662You don't. You can always not play with those people.
>>96761201>admireA good chunk of munchkins I've seen are a truly emotionally frail and frightful bunch, never taking risks and throwing a tantrum if they think they're about to take damage at all. The rest were just rules-lawyering "rules for thee but not for me" types that just wanted to power trip, and would act like such prima donna bitches when it wasn't their turn. Envy? I don't envy munchkins, I pity them.
>>96756199This is a description of 90% of active threads on /tg/ rn.
>>96751335In a good TTRPG, there is no such thing as a "shitty gimmick pc".
>>96761412nah the guys who make a dogshit "roleplaying" character are the ones who melt down and start bitching when they find out their character is ass
>>96764249You outright just described how a good chunk of munchkins act though. Nimrods love to claim they’re “just role playing” when they fudge the numbers and cheat for their preferred outcome, only to meltdown when it becomes clear nobody likes them or enjoys their self-entitlementk
>>96751335Maybe you are just a tryhard minmaxer who see the game as only numbers and builds
>>96754841An example of misery loving company in motion. Anon, have you considered Christ instead? And I assure you the version of Him you heard in church is probably not the one found in scripture.
>>96764365nah it's the guys who make shitty "roleplaying" characters
>Make something viable>AAAA! ROE PLAY NOT ROLEPLAY! DOING IT WRONG! RUINING THE GAME!>DM tells you to make what you want>Stop sweating the details on what the campaign might need>Make some random swashbuckler noble kid that is well meaning but naive >DM immediately goes for the throat first combat first session>THaT s Ju sT ho W it GOes [Anon]You can't win.
>>96761300Completely missed the point.
>>96761412You've never seen any.
>>96764445Why would anyone design a system in such a way that it's possible to make a character that can't function in the system?
>>96759271We're talking about a caster, tho. Just that the bard wants to be a sword guy in this scenario.
>>96764533Ask WOTC. Everything was fine in 2E. If you made a shit character it was because your rolls were shit.
>>96759001I actually did.But if you want an example gimmick caster that needs a hand me up: a wizard without fireballGot my eyes rolling every time the enemy passed their save vs Hold, Fear, etcThat's another indictment, mind, that people will roll their eyes at you for not taking fireball.
>>96751335You sound like a dumb cunt but your GM is a retard for not talking about optimization level beforehand. Oh, also, you are not better at the game btw, you net building faggot.
>>96764407I doubt you'd say that if you actually played a game once in your life.>>96764528I have. And they're annoying as fuck to deal with, the prissy little babies.
>>96765719played lots of gamesit's always the guy who's a loud and proud anti-minmaxer who gets butthurt when his epic roleplaying character dies to some goblin
>>96765730Frankly, the worst I've seen any drama baby ever do in a game was ragequit in a huff and take themselves out of the game. One of the so-called munchkins by comparison spent hours.throwing a temper tantrum after their wizard corked it bitching at their dice, the other players, and the game master, before trying to rally the other players into convincing the game master to "turn back the clock" on the encounter because of how unfair it was before having to be booted because by that point there was no point discussing anything further.That's how I learned a good chunk of munchkins aren't even good at munchkining or taking shit on the chin. They're only good for whining until they get their way.
>>96765779didn't happen lol
>>96751350
>>96765791What a worthless post
>>96765804Yeah, but what do you expect from a no games?
>>96751335Solved that problem by asking for concepts and backgrounds and providing characters, as well as suggestions for progression. Can't call me "unbalanced" if other characters are on my power level. But you do need a GM up to the task.
>>96764621LOL
>>96765719No you haven't.
>>96756139So were you going to name three games that don't allow weaknesses or you want to admit that you lied?
>>96765795>posts a xitter reaction image
>>96764524I don't believe I did. If you feel I misunderstood you, you may want to make yourself more clear. It's your responsibility to make sure others understand you. If you don't want to, that's fine too, but I think you'll find that this conversation won't be very productive for you.
>>96764621Utility of fireball (or any damage-dealing AoE) will depend on how the DM builds encounters and how clever enemies are with the spacing, it's pretty easy to either minimize the number getting hit or bait friendly fire.
>>96766367Useless post
>make an ordinary character, RAW, with no thought put into how strong or optimized it is>absolutely crush every single encounter on turn one, because the DM is a Critical Role faggot who runs one combat per long rest and for some reason doesn't expect players to drop all their heaviest abilities>"Wizards are not allowed in this campaign" Roll20 is so fucking lame, I swear to god.
