How do I RP a lawful good Oath of Devotion paladin without being either that guy or a passive cuckold?
>>96756072Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Nice.
>>96756072>First thought that came into my head:What about Kronk from Emperor's Groove after he decides to be noble? Sounds really fun, might have to build myself one...
>>96756080I really do want to lean into the idea of making an over the top good, selfless character, though. I want to make a reverse edgelord but avoid being annoying as a player about it.>"You can't rob that cultist sarcophagus, that's wrong! :("How do I avoid this?
>>96756091I always play that a character turning a blind eye from time to time won't wreck their alignment. If he just sees that crap and lets some of it go, I wouldn't immediately label him an oathbreaker.
>>96756091It's easy. In cases that are morally gray, assume your party is doing the best they can with the hand they dealt.>Robbing a cultist's sarcophagusWhile you wouldn't do such a thing, the reward from a party member doing so will result in a greater benefit to humanity at large because you believe they are a good person and will pray that their slight be forgiven as it serves a greater good.
>>96756080People who says this often just want to rp as Judge Dredd or Punisher.
>>96756080I mean, this is fairly easy to do. You can be nice and easygoing, but it also means that you're storing up all your rage for opponents who are Evil so you can absolutely unleash on them.Good and Evil in D&D are effectively the 'team' you're on. Objective morality is defined by the Gods. This means that anything, ANYTHING you do to fuck over Evil is justified. No Paladin would be against robbing a cultist sarcophagus, because cultists are the enemy. The enemy can get fucked. Meanwhile, defiling the dead of a Good or Neutral deity is pretty obviously a bad thing to do since they're on the same 'team' as you. I feel that this should be pretty obvious.
>>96756072Check out three hearts and three lions.
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>>96756212>People who says this often just want to rp as Judge Dredd or Punisher.who are Lawful Neutral (at best)
>>96756091If it's a cultist's sarcophagus it's justified as investigating what the hell they're doing and gathering resources from enemies.However, if the cultists are lairing in unrelated ancient ruins, then digging up the interred bones of its creators is unjustified graverobbing.
>>96756536>digging up the interred bones of its creators is unjustified graverobbing.Now that I think of it, we never even made completely sure the sarcophagi belong to actual evil cultists. There is a possibility the ruins were converted. Oh well.>>96756232>Objective morality is defined by the godsOk, as a servant of Bahamut who is, among other thing, a god of mercy - am I obligated to show mercy to a dishonorable opponent who is only surrendering because they realized it's their only way out?>This means that anything, ANYTHING you do to fuck over Evil is justified. Wouldn't that be chaotic? Isn't the whole shtick of Devotion paladins using honorable means, or is it about how you need to be really evil for a paladin to be allowed methods considered dishonorable?The way I see it, my paladin helped in looting the sarcophagi to help avoid other party members get hurt. He said "I'm not comfortable with this. Maybe we shouldn't take absolutely every single coin and leave a bit for the dead despite who and what they were.", and that was the end of it. He doesn't see his oath as something that gives him innate authority over others. On the other hand, I don't want to make his dedication to his oath convenient, I want it to have weight.>>96756104My DM won't take my powers away just because I make an oopsie, he's not that kind of DM. I want to give my character consistency without being an obstruction.
Make your Paladin lead by example instead of policing others. You took the oath, not the rogue in your party.
>>96756072I don't know what the fuck an Oath of Devotion is, but the AD&D Paladin is basically Sir Gawain in the streets, and the DOOM Guy in the dungeon.
>>96756468>who are Lawful Neutral (at worst)FTFY
>>96756072Boy Scout Paladins that always try to find the best in a situation are beloved by GMs and often become the main character because they have a clearly defined moral compass which makes it easy for GMs to develop scenarios which test their character. Don’t muddy what you made, embrace it.
>>96758548So I made the literal main character? Oh man. To be fair, I think I did flesh him out more than the other players who named theirs after sex acts, sex toys, and a fart in Latin (he's a goliath with cloud giant ancestry).
>>96756232>This means that anything, ANYTHING you do to fuck over Evil is justified.No, it doesn't.This is a major stumbling block for certain evil retards on this board who don't understand that Good cares about the means and the end, while evil is only concerned about the ends.Commiting evil acts against evil is still evil. Its why evil is so easy and good is a struggle. And with D&Ds Objective alignment, certain acts are evil no matter who or what you commit them too. Rape, torture, slavery, and many other acts are straight up evil and committing them turns you to evil. Also the gods do not determine objective alignment in D&D. The Planes do. Lawful Good Mt Celestia is where LG souls go when they die, this happens to also be the home to all the LG dieties because it fits their alignment and not because they made it LG.These arent teams you join and you can do whatever to the enemy. Thats something that only the evil alignments think.
>>96756232A lawful good character will seek the best outcome within the rules. To a lawful good character, the law itself is a moral standard to be upheld and unjust laws should be overturned within the structure of the present legislation.I would never make the claim that a lawful good character would never step outside the lines but it would be a very rare occurrence driven by exceptional circumstances. Even then, he would do so only to the point of need, carry guilt over it, and seek someway to make it right by either an act of absolution or recognizing a flaw in the rules have them updated accordingly. Being lawful doesn't mean being autistic about every nuance of every obscure rule but rather seeing the standard that a set of rules provides as being inherently good and therefore worthy of being upheld. I would also posit that a LG character doesn't need to be a paragon, simply one that's trying to live his life by those principles. Finally, a LG character most likely wouldn't hold himself to every law everywhere but choose a code of conduct by which to live and to the best of his ability hold to that code even when it conflicts with rules from another source.I posted a series of pictures of characters I think represent the lawful good style of character but I think maybe a better example would be the 90s era Star Trek Captains, Picard, Sisco, and Janeway. They were good and they embraced the guidance of the rules they were under. They challenged said rules form time to time but always in service to the rules as a greater institution and to the community they felt obliged to.For a deeper look how a Lawful Good PC might deal with the failure of the law itself, look at ST:TNG episodes of The Drumhead and The Offspring.
>>96756072Simple.You RP a lawful good Oath of Devotion paladin without being either that guy or a passive cuckold
OP here>>96759024What if torturing an evil NPC for information is the only way to save innocent people? Also isn't the ends justify the means approach to fighting evil (and not for your own benefit) technically chaotic good?>evil is so easy and good is a struggleI understand this approach to depicting morality, but I'm not sure how much I like it. I like to think it's essentially Evil's propaganda that being good is thankless sacrifice. Being evil should be hard for people who aren't either literal entities made of evil such as demons, brainwashed into accepting social darwinism as moral, or made cynical by extreme conditions (which can often enough be a result of actions by evil actors).>>96759756>To a lawful good character, the law itself is a moral standard to be upheld and unjust laws should be overturned within the structure of the present legislation.I like to think that to an LG character who leans harder into good the point of law is to protect people, and that if a law works against that, the specific form of law is not either lawful or good and as such can be treated as a form of chaotic evil. Still, a paragon such as a paladin needs to be extremely careful about deciding when what is considered lawful stands in the way of protecting people from evil. >I posted a series of pictures of characters I think represent the lawful good style of character but I think maybe a better example would be the 90s era Star Trek Captains, Picard, Sisco, and Janeway. Yeah and I studied those because I didn't watch them, except for saving private Ryan, which was long time ago. I did rewatch TNG recently, and Picard is an amazing example of an LG, and Drumhead is still amazing as what happens when LG meets LE. I want my paladin to be like that in his actions, but I don't want to step on other players either.
>>96759756>>96760922Ok I just talked to my brother about your examples and he hard disagrees about Sisco being an LG example, citing the "In the Pale Moonlight" and how Sisco dealth with Maquis.
>>96760987This is a perfect example of a LG not being completely constrained by every nuance of law. Sisco felt he was deviating in what he believed to be a higher service to the intent of the law rather than the letter of the law. Later in the series, he expressed doubts about that as well.I also thing it's an excellent example of a LG character being imperfect. He's not hard locked but rather he interpreted the situation being that exceptional circumstance that requires setting aside his commitment to the rules.That said, I definitely understand that there can be multiple perspectives on this.
>>96757928>Ok, as a servant of Bahamut who is, among other thing, a god of mercy - am I obligated to show mercy to a dishonorable opponent who is only surrendering because they realized it's their only way out?That's the thing. You don't have to show him mercy as long as you can justify why you're not showing him mercy.If this guy is a treacherous piece of shit and you know he's not being sincere, you are perfectly justified in killing him immediately.
>>96762432Just because a character is LG doesn't mean that they are a slave to the law. >If this guy is a treacherous piece of shit and you know he's not being sincere, you are perfectly justified in killing him immediately.There's a lot of nuance to this theoretical situation, such as opportunity to provide another means of justice or rules of engagement, but I can largely see this as a possible decision by a LG character.
>>96762432>That's the thing. You don't have to show him mercy as long as you can justify why you're not showing him mercy.What I meant is what is a paladin supposed to do with people who try to abuse the fact he is bound to an oath?>example>find evil necromancer we're looking for>offer guarantee of fair and civilized trial if he surrenders>"Hahahaha I don't care I'm going to crush you like a bug">end up beating him>ready to finish him off>"Wait! You're a paladin of Bahamut you have to show me mercy!"Obviously you're required to spare an honorable opponent who you know is no threat if they surrender, but there's obviously many gray areas. What if it's just not feasible to lug around a prisoner and you can't let him go because he may become a threat again? What if the rest of the party really wants to kill off an enemy who asks for mercy? Is it enough to just protest and if everybody disagrees you just demand it to be quick instead of torturous?
>>96762625>"Wait! You're a paladin of Bahamut you have to show me mercy!"It's what you do to a tyrant who demands a 'fair trial'. You tell him 'the people will be your judge' and hack his head off after the cheering crowd proclaims his guilt.
>OPAlright, alright.What is an LG paladin supposed to do if a party member uses animate dead? Logic dictates I'm supposed to stop that, but that's kind of being an asshole to the player wanting to play a necromancer. What makes necromancy inherently evil anyway?
