Honestly I'm tired of muh eldritch cults and the lovecraftian mythos in horror. No one is genuinely scared or creeped out by them. People may gloat about how much of an intellectual idea cosmic horror is; being overwhelmed by the vastness of the universe and feeling powerless, blah blah blah.Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps. Voodoo dolls, human sacrifices, blood rituals, hidden groves with celtic ruins, secret societies, actual ghosts and demons instead of otherworldly beings who don't give a shit about mankind. Horns and blood scare people more than tentacles and ooze.
It’s all the same superficial shit you huge retard. Just pick the superficial shit that creeps you out the most. For me it’s Mao.
Lovecraft has been ruined by gormless basedsuckers that have no ability to stand out on their own propping Lovecraft's corpse to sell their own mediocrity, all while dumping shit on the man for being racist early in his life. It's tiresome.
Neither of those things are scary. Real world cults are scary, cartoonish fantasy ones aren't.
>>96758951No, it's not the same. Nobody gets creeped out by those cults, but satanism and witchcraft strike a nerve.Which Mao do you mean?
>>96758964NTA but the most terrifying Mao to me is Mao Xinyu (pic rel).Fat fuck got his rank by eating the competition.
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps.Not really.
>>96758964>hey, you're not a scary cult, you worship a tentacle monster... I'm only scared of cults that worship horned monsters!They're the same thing.
>>96758937Retarded. What people fear is the unknown, that which they don’t understand—and familiarity breeds contempt. If you’ve been overexposed to cosmic horror, you’re going to think it’s pedestrian precisely because you understand the genre conventions and story beats. But someone who’s overly familiar with cabals, covens, or cults—or, worse, actually knows things about Satanism, historical magic beliefs, and pagan religions—is going to find them to be pretty lackluster as far as horror goes. Bloodletting rituals weren’t exactly that uncommon, after all.
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps.Maybe old people 40 years ago but does anyone still believe in that shit today?
>>96758937None of those things are scary.
>>96758937Survival Horror is the best way to get people creeped out. Doesn't really matter what the thing you make them afraid of is. You gotta:1. Give them limited resources and force them to make decisions with only bad outcomes2. Provide an anchor for empathy3. Alternate quiet/peaceful and sudden panic, but never sustain prolonged, sloggy combat4. ForeshadowLet your players feel like they're gonna need to use their resources. Make the resources feel precious enough that they've got to make sacrifices based on what they choose to spend them on. Food, ammo, hit points, spell slots--whatever. Using it now has to mean "ok but we're going to fail at something else, later, and the story will suffer because of it."They've gotta have something to care about. Toss some pets, a handful of sympathetic NPCs, a magic item with limited charges, or a vehicle or something in their path. Whatever they take the bait and care about? That's the thing you gotta threaten.Keep the threat on, but out of reach. When it hits, have a countdown timer running that disengages after X rounds. Don't let combat become a slog or it's not scary, any more. Any moment could be two more devestating rounds of combat for whatever reason. Never long enough to kill them. Never short enough to preserve all of their resources. Never long enough to let it become mechanical. Use environmental hazards.And just some basic-ass foreshadowing so that they feel like they're learning new things. Whatever--this shouldn't be hard. It doesn't even have to be complex. There's a journal and pages fell out one at a time through a 100% linear dungeon, with a new page in each room. It can be that fuckin' simple and it'll still work.>>96759249I'm a card-carrying member of the Satanic Temple. We raise money to fund abortion clinics in states that try to ban it, and fight against religion in classrooms.
>>96758937Imagine being actually scared of things that don't exist.
>>96758951>>96759234They're not the sameLovecraftian beings aren't evil, they don't follow human morality in any meaningful sense. Demons choose to be wicked.Lovecraftian entities don't give a fuck about humanity most of the time. Demons do. A lot.Lovecraftian entities are known to be fictional, but people still believe in demons.Lovecraftian entities are fairly recent, folklore has centuries if not milennia of cultural baggage deply ingrained into our collective unconscious.Lovecraftian entities are fundamentally naturalistic, they're just beyond our scope of understanding. Demons are inherently supernatural and thus they instill superstitious fear in us.Apply that to witches or pagan cults as well. People know that horns means devil, evil and even sexual immorality, but tentacles mean "alien" or even "monster" to them... and that's it.>>96759249They're real alright and chances are they run your government to some extent>>96759246Not necessarily. A creepy neighbour, an abusive relative, known crimes, well-studied diseases, peer-pressure, bullying, sharks, ventriloquist dummies, insects and spiders... those are all familiar and people are more afraid of them than, let's say, the idea of going to Kazakhstan or any other unfamiiar country.Sometimes you're afraid of what you already know. Not a single kid out there looks under the bed for a shoggoth, I can tell you that. They may look for clowns, though. Don't follow the reddit pop psychology theory of what horror should be like, just go towards whatever is creepy and scary.>>96759295>>96759229So what scares you?
>>96759458You aren't actually a Satanic cultist though, you cling to the Satan myth out of spite for Christians but you don't actually believe it do you?
>>96759491Anon. The essence is the same. It’s like arguing that miracles are distinct from magic when that’s basically just arguing brand/copyright differences. It’s still a higher intelligence giving out boons and rewards. A cult is a cult. All religions are just standardized cults.
>>96759491It literally doesn't matter the objectives of cosmic entities or demons if the cult is doing the exact same thing.
>>96759512It's an explicitly atheist organization, correct.
>>96759458Laveyan satanism isn't theistic; you guys don't believe in the devil. You're a hate group against American Christians.BTW do you oppose gender perspective or critical race theory in the classroom as well? Or do you oppose indoctrination only when you disagree with it?>>96759536>>96759586Magic and miracles are not the same. Miracles imply divine intervention, magic, well, that depends on your interpretation; it can be a force of nature, an entity working for you or divine intervention as well. Miracles are by definition good, magic can be bad. They both bypass the known laws of nature, but their essence is very different.A satanic cult implies a personal enemy that wants to cause evil, demons that care about perverting humans. Eldritch gods are amoral and mostly harmless to people.
>>96758937Whenever I see media claiming to be Lovecraftian I immediately skip it. Reddit as fuck.
>>96759647>Laveyan satanismLaveyan satanism is a different group entirely. The Satanic Temple has nothing to do with them.>You're a hate group against American Christians.Incorrect. A political opposition group against American Evangelical political action groups. We do hate you guys, though.
>>96758951
>>96758964>satanism and witchcraft strike a nerve>t. Amerifat
>>96759491Nigga, seek medical help. Or at least apply for disability dole, given your level of autism
>>96759647> Magic and miracles are not the sameWell, anon. Magic and wonder are very much tied together. The word for miracle comes from a meaning for wonder. The Jews and the Greeks saw Moses as a wizard, or a miracle worker, and they didn’t distinguish. The wizards of Egypt that Moses faced were just priests that represented their own respective gods. The wise Solomon was seen as a wizard king. The Jews in general were seen as a race of wizards, the same way the Greeks saw the Zoroastrian fire priests, or Magi, as wizards. Whether a religion considered its rites magical or not was a personal, cultural thing. They were still quite indistinguishable.Magic and religion are punks. At the end of the day, “it’s not magic, is a miracle!”, is just a variant of “it’s not magic, it’s Magick!”. A god likely won’t see himself as a god either, and it’s the equivalent of a human treating himself as a gos to ants. It’s all stage magic logic in the end.
>>96759458This is good advice, commendable, anon. >inb4 old age is the real terror
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps. Voodoo dolls, human sacrifices, blood rituals, hidden groves with celtic ruins, secret societies, actual ghosts and demons instead of otherworldly beings who don't give a shit about mankind. Horns and blood scare people more than tentacles and ooze.All of these things exist within Lovecraft's style of horror and you're a retard who doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>96759715Ok, then, so you're still a group atheists who started a movement out of hatred against American Christians. A hate group. Definition:> A hate group is a social group that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, nation, religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, or any other designated sector of society.You claim to oppose indoctrination, censorship and hate, but you do exactly the same thing, probably believing you're the "good guys" while also claiming there is no objective morality.The difference is that Christianity, with all of its flaws, built the Western world (to a large extent) and "satanists" are dysfunctional people driven only by hatred, LARPing as witches, useful only to democratic party politicians and international plutocrats.>>96759735Name a single thing I got wrong>>96759700The worst part is that lovecraftian media doesn't GET Lovecraft.
>>96759815Blah blah blah. I don't care that much how you want to characterize me, anon. Nor am I surprised that it's "shallowly, in accordance with your identity politics."That's really a you problem. Do your thing.
>>96759750No, read the Exodus. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". In fact, the talmud claims Jesus was a warlock and is boiling in hell, while Moses is not. So there is a distinction in Jewish culture between miracles ( Baal shem, philacteries, mezuzah and evil witchcraft.Granted, in Western Esotericism High "magick" or ceremonial magic is godly and its goal is greater attunement and unity with the Absolute, but it's mostly a matter of semantics. The word magic can mean folk recipes, black magic, Goetia, voodoo, or even fictional systems like mana points or the one in Sanderson's novels.
>>96759815>Name a single thing I got wrongOk:They're not the sameLovecraftian beings aren't evil, they don't follow human morality in any meaningful sense. Demons choose to be wicked.Lovecraftian entities don't give a fuck about humanity most of the time. Demons do. A lot.Lovecraftian entities are known to be fictional, but people still believe in demons.Lovecraftian entities are fairly recent, folklore has centuries if not milennia of cultural baggage deply ingrained into our collective unconscious.Lovecraftian entities are fundamentally naturalistic, they're just beyond our scope of understanding. Demons are inherently supernatural and thus they instill superstitious fear in us.Apply that to witches or pagan cults as well. People know that horns means devil, evil and even sexual immorality, but tentacles mean "alien" or even "monster" to them... and that's it.They're real alright and chances are they run your government to some extentNot necessarily. A creepy neighbour, an abusive relative, known crimes, well-studied diseases, peer-pressure, bullying, sharks, ventriloquist dummies, insects and spiders... those are all familiar and people are more afraid of them than, let's say, the idea of going to Kazakhstan or any other unfamiiar country.They may look for clowns, though..Here, my Yank friend. Also grab a free (You).And if you paid attention, you will notice I didn't just copy-paste your entire post. But 90% of it was still bullshit to farm (You)s.I will never understand Evangelicals and their weird-ass obsessions. It's not even religiousness or devotion - those are just phobias and obsessions.But what do I know, I'm a Catholic, so you might as well talk in Aklo to me
>>96759830My only problem is expecting logical consistency, moral integrity and rejection of hypocrisy from a woke LARPer. Anyway, no more attention for these purple-haired fags, back to topic.>>96759864You copied and pasted, implying everything was wrong, such funny... care to have a single argument?I'm a Catholic as well, idk why you assumed I am Evangelical. Catholics have been among the first to warn others about secret cabals; cults, heresies, Freemasonry, witchcraft... Learn your own culture first.
>>96759491Only retards are afraid of clowns. If you’ve ever seen a proper clowning performance, it’s a true art form.
Place your bets whether the thread will degenerate into caths vs atheist shitflinging or "magic and wonder" semantic pilpuling.
>>96758937Celtic paganism and paganism in general I don’t really get the horror vibe from. Maybe it’s because I think nature and deer skulls are cool looking and not scary? I don’t like people larping as pagans but the aesthetic isn’t conducive to horror for me.>inb4 what does? The majority of horror isn’t really my thing (I don’t get frightened by movies, so I tend to watch horror like a snob would and judge it by its merits). That said I find the concept of things that imitate humans to be unnerving. Like for example The Thing is my favorite horror movie even if it’s not actually frightening. It just feels more like a mystery than a horror movie. Even if it doesn’t play out this way in the later half. There should be more of that within the genre. Skinwalkers or shapeshifters. Speech mimicry. That sort of thing. Especially uncanny valley stuff. Where you know something is wrong with the mimic but you can’t really describe it.
>>96759887Nigger the Catholic Church openly denies the existence of witchcraft.You're so full of shit.
>>96758937The issues with Lovecraftian Horror, are that; >A lot of people mistake "lovecraft's horror settings" for Lovecraftian Horror.For every "Dead Space" or "Bloodborne" you get, where the monsters are quantifiably that kind of eldritch, alien horrors, massive in power and removed entirely from the experience of mere humanity so as to be akin to gods in the outer voids of space, you get something like DnD or Pathfinder, where they make a race of funny octopus people and creatures and go "hey look, we've got lovecraftian themes here too" because tentacles are Lovecraft, right?>Lovecraft didn't always write 'Lovecraftian' horror.He was a great writer, but he and others in that sphere, writing in the similarly shared fantasy/alt-history setting of 'The Cthullhu mythos', were more akin to creepypasta writers than greek epicists. And while a lot of his works had subtle supernatural themes, a LOT were just scary stories with barely a hint of anything otherworldly.>Lovecraft was a bit of a patsy.A phenomenal writer, yes. And a remarkably learned man for someone who never traveled. But the man was genuinely scared of air conditioners, bream, vaguely surrealist (and entirely unoffensive and understimulating) paintings, and non-euclidian geometry.He was the kind of man to genuinely be unsettled at the sight of the Sydney Opera house. And this influenced his horror writing, and his ideas, so that so much of what made his works horror, was just not going to land as utterly terrifying to people who are comfortable with seeing strange things, or going outside their comfort zone.Actual Lovecraftian horror is pretty good. It makes you both horrified, and captivated, wanting to both see and understand the thing, and get away from it. It has scifi elements, depth, and a believability to it that 'angry obsessive stalker with a knife' or 'spooky dream demon with a smoker's cough' doesn't have.
I disagree, I find Cthulhu way scarier than Satan.
>>96759860>immediately resorts to the bible Of course the christ fag misses the point being made
>>96758937>Honestly I'm tired of muh eldritch cults and the lovecraftian mythos in horror. No one is genuinely scared or creeped out by them. People may gloat about how much of an intellectual idea cosmic horror is; being overwhelmed by the vastness of the universe and feeling powerless, blah blah blah.I agree with you. I've felt this way ever since I was introduced to the Cthulhu mythos and I was trying to understand why it's gained such a cult following over my lifetime. I genuinely listened to all their arguments about why it's so genuinely horrific, and considered them, but I just can't get on board with it. I'm sorry, Cthulhu is just some big man-octopus to me, and so is all the minions. Wiggly squirmy things I've seen in horror movies and art for my entire lifetime - as far as I know, I never had a mental breakdown over these things.Finally, a wise (and literally insane) man came out and gave the internet a good metaphor for my take on the Cthulhu mythos: His pet bird looking at his computer monitor as he codes, not even beginning to understand what it all means, and yet the bird doesn't panic or go insane. It just carries on being a bird.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j820vlCc03k
>>96759960Lovecraft travelled a lot actually, never left the US, but travelled within the US quite a bit. He also wasn't afraid of any of the things you mentioned, he was a deeply curious man with a great fascination in the sciences and technology. The "air conditioning" thing always irks me in particular, that's like saying someone who wrote a story about a haunted cars is afraid of cars altogether. He was a horror writer, they're known to take mundane things and give them a horrific twist.
>>96760012The difference is that the beings of the Mythos aren't just above our understanding, they're above our understanding AND they're aggressive, malevolent and want to, at the very least, destroy human civilization.A more apt comparison would be him trying to taser the bird. And I think the bird would freak out if that were the case.
>>96759948> Nigger the Catholic Church openly denies the existence of witchcraftBecause they’re afraid
>>96759960That's fair, however any game with a DM can never truly include Lovecraftian material in its setting, because they also have to explain that stuff to make it compelling for a DM to choose, and explaining in such necessary detail makes the Lovecraftian go away.
>>96758937The trick in any horror is that you need to give the players something that they don't know the rules of. It is impossible for a vampire to be scary in modern fiction, because NO MATTER how strong or fast or powerful you make them, even a casual audience will know enough vampire weaknesses that they can arm themselves and feel like they can fight back/protect themselves. They become confident in their protections on holy ground, with garlic and silver and wooden stake, out in the daylight, etc. And when they are confident in their ability to fight back, it stops being horror and starts being a spooky action movie. Its the difference between Alien and Aliens: the former is a murder machine you don't know the rules of yet, the latter is just a monster you can shoot with a gun. Same creature, different context. Lovecraftian Horror was scary in the first place because it was based explicitly on something that not only wasn't known, but couldn't be known without driving you mad. But now we take that for granted, its just part of "the rules" for it. So you need to give your players something that they don't know the rules of. Stop putting them up against classic horror monsters they know by heart, even if you think you can "cleverly" subvert or modify them. Instead, give them something they don't recognize and don't know. They know how to deal with Cthulhu. They don't know how to deal with the fact that the stars in the sky are alive. Both are cosmic horror, but one is familiar and the other is not.
>>96760070I mean, the Lovecraftian shit is for the players, and they don't have to read any of it.Plus, you can just make your own spooky Lovecraft shit if you want, most Lovecraft systems give you tools to do that.
Witchcraft is a pejorative. Wizard is an honorific—the sage. Why do you think sorcery sounds so similar to heresy?
>>96759948NTA. The Bible is a better source than the Catholic Church’s ever changing stances. The Bible mentions witchcraft and sorcery a lot. Condemnation of it specifically. My interpretation: It’s almost exclusively larping and God doesn’t approve of larpers pretending to wield power that belongs to Him. What isn’t larping is actually demonic. Demons are not omnipresent so they cannot be everywhere that witchcraft is practiced, hence why only most of it is larping.
>>96758937Eldritch divinities that we cannot possibly understand who reach out and touch our world from beyond the pale, flickering light of stars are just cooler and more interesting than fire, demons and demons on fire.
>>96758937>Honestly I'm tired of muh eldritch cults and the lovecraftian mythos in horror.Horror is a tired genre in general. You have to want to buy in for it to work or be young enough you haven't realized tv isn't irl. You're expressing an oversaturation and overexposure to specific variations of horror, which honestly is only a thing that happens if you read more than you play games. If its a reading thing try talking to /lit/. If its a games thing try playing those.
>>96760123That doesn't matter. What he was talking about was how "Catholics are amongst the first to warn about witchcraft" which is objectively untrue given the fact the Catholic Church flat out denies sorcery.>The Bible is a better source than the Catholic Church’s ever changing stances. Lol.Lmao even.
>>96759887He literally pointed to you he didn't copy-paste it in the end of the post, and it's still obvious without that, too.You really are starved for attention.Here is the solution - go outside and touch some brass. Too late for grass, so you will have to substitute
>>96759491you're retarded and probably a christcuck. It's all the same fake bullshit. No one cares really if the monster WANTS to rape your face or if it simply rapes your face as a byproduct of existing. Most people are in the "I wouldn't like my face raped at all" camp and thus wouldn't enjoy either one.However in a fucking TTRPG fucking NO ONE is going to be actually "afraid" of anything beyond a very basal conceptual level. You are never going to be able to write up some flowery bullshit that actually strikes fear into the hearts of the people at your table because you're either at a table with a bunch of plastic or in front of a computer screen. If your players are getting actually afraid of anything beyond "oh my character could die rn" you're playing with a bunch of literal fucking toddlers. Horror concepts are just fun, because the line between when something is just a neat fun idea and something soul crushingly terrifying is if it's fucking real and nothing your dealing with in a TTRPG is real.
>>96758964Satanism is literally just secular humanism with some rituals involved made by a literal carny. Witchcraft is just hot chicks with belly rings who do tarot readings. If you are afraid of satanism and witchcraft you are incredibly lame.
>>96760070>>96760078There's two choices>demystify the mythos and make it mundane>don't explain shit and actually just make characters and players get freaked out over seemingly impossible bullshitThe problem with 1 is then it's not scary at all, and the problem with 2 is that in any game where you have access to a shotgun (or the equivalent) there needs to be a reason why the shotgun doesn't work that doesn't feel like "rocks fall everyone dies". It's rather difficult to incorporate in anything but background flavor. It works more in Call of Cthulhu since there's some decent mechanics there to interact without it being stupid, but DnD and other media don't do it as well. Largely also due to a hyperfixation with Cthulhu across media instead of using the other parts of lovecraft's ideas. A lot of the horror isn't "spooky tentacle monster comes out"
>>96760176Wasn't modern day satanism some meme tax bullshit made by a jewish pedophile?
>>96760186I'm gonna be honest, I wasn't even like, considering DnD or DnD derivatives when i wrote my post. to me DnD is so far removed from Lovecraftian horror in literally all ways I wasn't even thinking about it. But yeah, Lovecraft would obviously not work in that.
>>96760192There have been a few different organizations called satanist. The good one (The Satanic Temple) is a political organization that does fund raising and events to counter christian infringement on the seperation of church and state. For instance, when Arizona created laws to make abortion functionally illegal in the state, the Satanic Temple got a religious exemption for their "abortion ritual" that allows them to mail milfepristone to women in Arizona. When Utah passed a law to allow "religious instruction" in schools, satanists immediately filed the paperwork to get approved to be those instructors. The state legislature couldn't figure out how to bar satanists without breaking the law, so they dropped the entire program. It's pretty good.
>>96760145Well I agree with your post. Even if you wish to make fun of me. The Catholic Church is not in alignment with the Bible. His stance flat out doesn’t make sense given Bible passages that discuss witchcraft tha predate Catholicism by 1000+ years. And the Catholic Church’s stance doesn’t make sense either, (assuming that is their stance I’m taking your word for it)“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”Just one example.
>>96760203DnD occasionally uses some Lovecraft ideas with shit like the mind flayers, but yeah it's mainly just set dressing. A lot of "Lovecraft inspired" works other than perhaps Bloodborne or a few others like it use it purely for set dressing and ignore any real horror elements of being a tiny fish in a very deep lake
>>96760214Eh, it depends on your political alignment. To me it's somewhat cringy and while I agree with the separation of Church and state, I don't morally agree with carte blanche abortions and likewise. I won't really render moral judgment but calling themselves Satanists is a bit cringe
>>96759960>a LOT were just scary stories with barely a hint of anything otherworldly.Thinking of that one he wrote where a guy is terrified of a curse a wizard put on his family that all the men will die before 30, and at the end it turns out that the "wizard" was literally just breaking into their houses and killing them lmao
>>96760265>it depends on your political alignment.Yes I suppose. There are those of us who support the constitution and the foundational principle of the seperation of church and state that has given rise to the entire modern, western world.And then there's people with a different "political alignment." I hear the Taliban is recruiting.
>>96759647>find cult>it's doing horrible things>mutilating animals>sacrificing children>daubing bloody sigils on trees>chanting naked and dancing>worshipping a horned sculpture made of branches, flayed skin, and flowers>their final ritual will call forth their god>it will devour them all and gift them ascended formsTell me, is that a demonic cult or a cosmic entity cult?
>>96760272No to be fair, the wizard was doing it for like, over 100 years iirc, so there was something supernatural going on with the fact he was immortal somehow.
> good one (The Satanic Temple)…
>>96758964Mao Zedong is a legit disciple of Nurgle. Man had colonies of lice living in his ass crack.
>>96760015>Lovecraft travelled a lot actually>never left the US,Fucking yanks.Traveled, as applied to a quality a person has, is measured in countries and cultures, not miles.
>>96760289>>chanting naked and dancing>>worshipping a horned sculpture made of branches, flayed skin, and flowersArts and crafts and music point to the paganism and demons.
>>96758937I'd say both of those could be scary if you are role-playing properly. Most people would be at the very least unnerved knowing they were in the same buildings as a normal dude with a normal kitchen knife out to get them to say nothing of paranormal shit with cults and monsters. People being scared while playing RPGs requires players to buy into the mood and connect with their character trying to survive a perilous situation. If you can't manage that then there will never be a subject that will scare them, at best you'll get a campy horror comedy where the just crack jokes or worse they will just be bored.
>>96760657Turns out it's a cosmic entity, because there's no difference between those and demons, they're just different mistaken names for the same otherworldy entities.
>>96760718Correct. The elements you use are irrelevant. The gameplay matters.You could make a fucking animatronic robot from a fast food arcade terrifying, if you make the gameplay good. You can make a billion year-old space squid from another dimension dull, if you make the gameplay bad.There are no elements that make a game good. There are no elements that ruin a game. The gameplay is the only thing that matters.
>>96760648It was the 1930s man, travelling the entire US at that time would have been travelled.And I'm no yank
>>96760729>akchully the answer is [the opposite of what you picked]!I'm so glad my GM doesn't touch this shithole.
>>96759994Idiot you were the first to mention Judaism and Moses, I just gave you evidence against it using Jewish sources. Sorry, you were wrong. Deal with it.>>96759948Maybe the Vatican II church does, but that's the Church being occupied by its enemies and imposing cultural relativism.>>96760076I disagree; Jaws is scary and people know what sharks are about. Jason, The Exorcist, Freddy Krueger, The Ring, Zombies... people understand what they are and how they work, yet they're good horror.People also understand diseases, crime, clowns, insects and public speaking, yet they can still find them terrifying. So the idea that "unknown = horror" is just reddit advice that doesn't always apply.Uncertainty does matter, but the horror itself doesn't have to be unfamiliar. Besides, most RPG players kinda know what Cthulhu and Lovecraftian beings are.>>96760162Yes, I noticed that I didn't bother to read it because there were no arguments. Same as yours, just parroting the "touch grass" meme. Have a thought of your own for once in your life.
>>96760919Just trying to show you how you're not getting that cults are just groups of people who THINK they know what they're doing is correct but are ultimately as disconnected from understanding the entity they focus on as everyone else, it's just their delusion driving them. But I guess that concept is a little beyond your reach... good luck repeatedly bopping a demon on the head with a sword in your GMs next campaign!
>>96761015Hey, retard. Did you know that Catholic priests and bishops practiced legitimate black fucking magic and demonology in private behind closed doors? They said it was God’s authority “so it was okay”.The Bible contains endless contradictory shit you you faggot.
>>96761015>Maybe the Vatican II church doesNah, "Witches aren't Real dumbass" is much older than 1962 to 1965.
>>96761015The fear of Jaws isn't "I don't know what a shark is," the fear of Jaws is "I don't know what's under the water." The fact that you don't understand such a basic fucking thing should tell you that you're not intellectually equiped to have these kinds of conversations.Also>The Catholic Church isn't the *real* Catholic Church!God I fucking hate these tradcath larpers.
>>96759860>No, read the Exodus. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". What constitutes a witch? The Witch of Endor?>In fact, the talmud claims Jesus was a warlock and is boiling in hell, while Moses is not. Yes, certain passages in the Talmud do describe Jesus as being in a form of hell, being punished for leading people astray. However, there is significant scholarly debate about whether these passages are referring to Jesus of Nazareth, with some scholars arguing they refer to other figures named Yeshu or are later polemical inventions, while others maintain they do in fact refer to him. Just calling Jesus a warlock is an example of how God worshipers would accuse their own of being sorcerers. >So there is a distinction in Jewish culture between miracles ( Baal shem, philacteries, mezuzah and evil witchcraft.It’s a grading. A movie is a movie but no two movies are the same. And the point is still remaining — There was no true difference between the wizards of Egypt that Moses faced, and himself. They both represented their respective patron deities. It’s a matter of scale, not class. A patron is a patron. None of this is a difference. It’s just autism. Christian Mass is just high ceremonial magic, or white witchcraft, by any other name.
>>96759860>Granted, in Western Esotericism High "magick" or ceremonial magic is godly and its goal is greater attunement and unity with the Absolute, but it's mostly a matter of semantics.Semantics is precisely why people are dumb enough to think that miracles are somehow distinct from magic. They are not. The word Thaumaturge means as much a miracle worker as it does a magic worker. Satanism and demonic witchcraft have been described as ‘black miracles’ before, because they are literally being given by demons, or Satan, as opposed to God. Witchcraft is just a dark form of miracles.
>>96759860>The word magic can mean folk recipes, black magic, Goetia, voodoo, or even fictional systems like mana points or the one in Sanderson's novelsAnd, it can also be used to refer to miracles, or white magic… summoning angels to perform miracles on your behalf… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_NotoriaVoodoo actually incorporates heavy use of Catholicism.
>>96760289That's Christianity with a few extra steps, bro.Hell, it's first version had them running around hoisting fish above their heads. The early Christian cult was wild.
The most wizardly tradition of all in the western esoteric tradition — and the thing that led up to science, another wizardly staple - would be a le Cleric by retarded DnD standards. Because for some reason interacting with gods, or just higher intelligences, is only associated with le Cleric.
>>96761233*laughs in celestial warlock*Gods have their simps, but they strike the deals with the proper parties.
>>96761215Christianity literally started as a Jewish death cult, and people go to temples to worship a dead guy, and to partake of his blood and flesh, and if you don’t you are going to HELL for all eternity. Absolutely fucking demonic. Christianity is indistinguishable from dark magic. Witchcraft. Hilarious how dumb fucks like >>96759860 think it’s not. I spit on them.
It’s true. The stereotypical, classic, cliche Hermeric wizard trope was about alchemy and astrology AND god working. The true wizard is a mix of a wizard and a cleric, and also artificer.
>>96758937I fear the the real problem you're going to face is people that actually identify as Satan worshippers or pagans getting upset when a game portrays their religion as bad. Everybody knows Cthulhu is fake.
>>96761192If the game book says they're different, they're different.
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps. Voodoo dolls, human sacrifices, blood rituals, hidden groves with celtic ruins, secret societies, actual ghosts and demons instead of otherworldly beings who don't give a shit about mankind.Have you ever even played call of cthuhlu before?
>>96760015>Lovecraft travelled a lot actually, never left the US, but travelled within the US quite a bit.That's a bit of traveling, but compare that to his locations where he writes his novels.He wrote Call of Cthulhu based out of Dunedin in New Zealand. Actually, given the time period, it's remarkable how he was able to write about these corners of the world he'd never been remotely near to, and got them mostly right>He also wasn't afraid of any of the things you mentionedMaybe 'afraid' sounds severe, but he does admit, in his own accounts, to being afraid of marine life, and was unsettled by a great many things.He was educated enough to know his fears were phobia's, but we can unpack, not just from his story topics, but reading between the lines of his works and accounts, and from his known life path, that he was an easily unsettled man with an overactive imagination, who was, at best, uncomfortable with a lot of things that most men wouldn't give two shits about.>>96760070I'd say it's entirely possible to include Lovecraftian material anon. It's just a matter of setting the tone right. You're not just pulling out his monsters, but you're telling the story of some bright young wealthy gentlemen/gentlewomen who think they're the masters of their world, exploring a 'modern' fantasy setting, and everything gets tipped on its head as they realize they're less than gnats to powerful, entirely alien creatures that only go unnoticed, because they're so massive and foreign to anything of our existence we simply can't recognize them without years of scholarship and unwitting self-training.>>96760186Do the second, and just say what the PC sees when the shotgun goes off.You're DAMN RIGHT about the Lovecraftian horror not being the spooky tentacle monster.
>>96761425No.
>>96760012Disclaimer: I'm not here to "convert" you to anything. I don't care if you end up not liking HPL's stories. Just trying to see if I can offer you another interpretation.The problem with the argument they presented you is that the "mythos" aren't neither particulary scary neither they are good because they are "cosmic". It's... a very lowkey interpretation of why the man is arguably the biggest figure in 1900s non-realistic fiction (and no, this doesn't mean he was the best writer).HPL, especially, should NEVER be read by the ways of the "systematization" that COC or Deleth put on him. Don't think the usual chatgpt-like talk of "but they treat us insects, scary!" is relevant (not in small part because they often don't treat us like me or you stepping on an ant by mistake).Lovecraft didn't write in the usual way we understand horror now: as a scary monster trying to get out the PCs. You're not here to be "scared" of the Colour, not in the way you read It to be scared of its sheanigans. Usual horror, even third rate slasher bullshit, is about us feeling in danger, projecting the protagonists' feelings of visceral fear.HPL in his good stories... uses certainly the threat of physical danger, but that's hardly the real point: this is why in most cases actually the paper-thin PCs could actually escape. I think the better explanation is that he was based on the conflict between contemporary knowledge (of our species being an accident of no importance, which is per se not scary) and the fact that our species can not feel that way - that we are hard-wired to think that something bigger than us is out there. Something that we chose to forgot.It's about our minds being at the same time more open about the sublime and at the same time less than in any time in history. At the same time our universe is something that puts older religions to shame in vastness, and at the same time we can't picture it as empty as we "should" know.Cont'd (?).
>>96761548>It's just a matter of setting the tone right.But that's someting you can do as a DM with your group, not something that should be done in reference material like campaign setting books or beastiaries.
>>96760186>A lot of the horror isn't "spooky tentacle monster comes out"This. As much as I like the game The Secret World and its first level being full-on New London tentacle/dagon stuff, the real horror is the unknowable or just the largely indescribable madness, and cannot easily be translated into media (watch the Dagon if you don't believe me, cheesy shit). The CoC investigation I'm preparing for my table is a radio signal being broadcasted in a way that its signal is somehow evenly powerful in strength instead of tapering off, and disappearing all of a sudden at a single point in the distance. It 's captured and played even via unplugged radios, penetrates every object, even a Faraday cage, within its influence, etc.The longer a person stays within the area where the signal resides, the darker and more hopeless they see the world, and if they can actively hear it via a radio, hallucinations start, that can eventually hurt them, even if unseen by others nearby. The stars are seen shifting from within the signal range, the shadows as if moving on their own, etc.I am planning it to be something between the good old horror from beyond the veil of stars, a sentient living signal that has reached Earth, laid "eggs" into the psyche of people that can perceive it via the radios, and then tries to spread around by driving them insane with visions that cause them to flee as far as they can by any possible means, where the hallucinations will then "catch up", bleed them to death, and cause the skull to begin vibrating, stronger and stronger, as it pulses a new signal. It would then drive other maddened people towards it where they are also killed, amplifying the signal strength. The investigators would have to track down the source, destroy it, and follow the clues to a village where the amount of dead has reached a critical mass and begun spawning a new signal, which would then have to also be killed to end it.Not a single tentacle in sight.
>>96761834>the biggest figure in 1900s non-realistic fictionGood one, anon. That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard anyone say about Lovecraft.No: there is absolutely no argument that he's a more important writer than Mark Twain, Rudyard Kippling, Jules Verne or HG Wells. Flatly fucking none. Not even with the idiotic niche you just tried to invent.Oh but that made me laugh. Lovecraft was a shitty writer with mediocre ideas who became popular again twenty years ago during the five minutes it took before we all realized that Steampunk is stupid.
>>96761834A better way of thinking about Cthulhu is probably a pseudo-religious one. Mind you, he is difficult to "save": too meme'd, too primitive for HPL's own standard, and if you ask me too "generic". I think even Deep Ones are easier to put under a fresher light - I'd use him in games more like a symbol than anything.Anyway. Call of Cthulhu as a story is -as many good HPL's stories- a very "religious" one at its core. The real star is the cult, which is, well, a bunch of degenerate psycopaths that are there just to have the best rave ever. A rave festooned by babies' entrails. And kinda dumb, all in all.THAT would make them third rate villains or even bad parodies of christianity (notice that they too are there to wait for the second coming of their god). But here is the thing: they're more ancient than our species and can not be stopped. They are like puritans' witches, but we have no God to eradicate them.And of course, they are totally right. But right about what? Because here's the thing about big C: he is the anti-apocalypse, the un-revelation. This is not about revealing anything, it's about all of it not making any sense. The trappings are all there: the Titan will escape his prison, the world will end in fire and storms, we'll be all free to experience divine bliss, but this will have if anything a non-meaning.
>>96761892I'm NTA, I don't think HPL is the *most important non-realistic* writer, but HPL had a pretty huge influence on horror and fantasy writing long before "20 years ago," and claiming otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
>>96762005Yes: he was briefly popular in the 60s and 70s, got a brief revival in the schlock horror of the late 80s and early 90s, and got a third revival at the time of Steampunk (not because he has fuck-all to do with Steampunk, but just because they were desperate for content).His work has no cultural staying-power for the simple reason that he wrote so poorly.
>>96761015Witches not being real has been canon law since the days of Charlemagne you stupid nigger.
>>96762049>Literally keeps inspiring different groups of horror and fantasy writers though-out the last century>But somehow this means HPL has "no staying power" because, uuuuhhhh, I don't like him!
>>96762091I've read my complete works of Lovecraft, anon. I like him fine. But it's just redundant, over-qualified, indecicive, inconsistent, tell-not-show, vague and empty trash. The writing is just bad. It's alright to like trash, anon. What, you think we're all high minded elitists on the board for Forgotten Realms and Warhammer? Trash can be fun. You don't need to lie to yourself about it.
>>96762091I mean, I don't like Moorcock but it's more or less like saying he's not the most important SS writer after REH.(well, perhaps second after my boy Leiber)>>96762101>I like him fine. But it's just redundant, over-qualified, indecicive, inconsistent, tell-not-show, vague and empty trash. The writing is just bad.So you don't like him but you like him. Ok.
>>96762101Don't hurt yourself moving those goalposts anon.Also, this is the shittiest fucking irony-poisoned brainrot nonsense.>Lol what are you talking about anon, I read all of [author] and I like it fine, even though it's fucking horrible garbage. We all like garbage, anon, it's fine!Nah, fuck that, I like HPL's work because it's good. I'm sorry your worldview is so completely ruined by irony that you think you aren't allowed to like things without some sort of knowing smirk, but it's a cowards way to go through life, and I hope you outgrow it.
>>96762111>So you don't like him but you like him. Ok.So I can read him and be honest about the quality of the writing, anon. I don't gotta blow smoke up his ass. Reading is fun. Lovecraft can be rad. That doesn't make it any good.
>>96762124>Nah, fuck that, I like HPL's work because it's good.If you're confused enough to think HPL wrote well, anon, you might be on the border of illiteracy.
>>96762111Nah, Moorcock is probably second, Leiber isn't as well read anymore (which is unfortunate, I prefer him to moorcock.)
>>96760718I think for some people it's just that the subject feels too fictional to them. My perspective on demonic cults changed when I learned that O9A and its related circles are not only very active but also have been involved in a shitload of crimes literally every single year for 5+ years now. Convinced me that there's genuinely nothing unrealistic about people in fantasy land following an evil god when people irl join edgy groups to be literally evil and disgusting for its own sake, so having a god's mandate to do it would just be the cherry on top
>>96762130You're the fucked who was in the the Conan thread last week, aren't you? Yeah, fuck off, writing doesn't have to be just a dry recitation of facts to be "good" and you sound like an unbearable cunt. And you're still missing the point, we aren't talking about the entirely subjective quality of HPL's work, we were talking about his influence, which you have tried to say is minimal despite continually inspiring writers for the last 100 years.
>>96762127Anon, I'm referring to the fact that you managed to say he was bad in every regard, called him trash twice, and said you like him.
Very cool on topic thread guys.
>>96760919Yes that's what happens when you're thinking solely off vibes instead of logic, things happen unexpectedly that prove you wrong.
>>96761892God you're a fucking faggot
>>96759860>No, read the Exodus. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". This is meaningless in determining if miracles are magic or not. It's an argument from your conclusion.
>>96762135>LeiberWrote the single best depiction of vampires in all of literature.For anyone who wants a wild fucking ride, google 'The girl with the hungry eyes'
>>96761425That's not how that works anon, unless you're redefining in the terms (in which cases they are completely different terms) a book asserting a false premise does not make that premise true.You can't have a book say "2+2=3" and therefore say 2+2=3 is a true statement
>>96761015>Maybe the Vatican II church does, but that's the Church being occupied by its enemies and imposing cultural relativism.If you're catholic it's literally impossible for this premise to be true. You are a protestant that is too cowardly to admit it. The church is not an earthly organization that can be subverted by man. To say it is so is to claim that the machinations of man are stronger than God.
>>96760012>Terry Davis fag is retardedShocking
>>96760123> The Bible is a better source than the Catholic Church’s ever changing stances. Unless you're catholic dumbass. That's like saying god's older words come before his most recent ones, may as well reject the new testament at that point.
>>96762255If you want to know what Christianity is, the Bible is what you should read. Front to back. Attending mass and performing rituals specific to a particular sect will not give you understanding of Christianity.
>>96758937The point of cosmic horror is the sudden realisation that you mean absolutely nothing, that you are not even an amoeba and the human race is prey at best and meaningless at worst, that the entire universe is just a nonsensical game played by retarded gods for no reason at all. Only redditors think it is 'muh tentacles'
>>96760648>Euro thinks he's worldly because he took a ten minute bus ride
>>96762293>just skip theology, bro
>>96760176>literally just secular humanismYou think we're stupid?
>>96761250>I spit on them.Who could be behind this post?
>>96760289>This many posts and no reply with "Jews." Goy, are you doing ok?
>>96762883I think you, in particular, are a stupid person, if you think "le satanists" are anything other than ironic goths.
>>96763135I've seen enough to know that they are more than just that.
>>96761015>I disagree; Jaws is scary and people know what sharks are about.Don't confuse horror with slasher. They are only superficially similar.
>>96763152No you haven't.
>>96763152Seriously, you're a schizo, but this highlights a greater issue. You're attempting to attribute evil to some kind of mysterious, malignant outgroup, which is fucking stupid. I hate this shit when one side or the other tries to claim "oh, all the pedophiles are [whichever political affiliation you're not.]" That leaves you weak as shit, because you're assuming all the wolves only exist in your opponents camp, and you stop looking in your own. Shitty people insulate themselves into hierarchies and then insulate themselves with the cause. Blaming all evil on "those guys over there" leaves open to corruption from within, and it happens over and over again.There aren't satanists in the sense you're saying.. "Satan" as a concept is fuckin' Christian propaganda anyway. There are fucked people who drape themselves in the iconography of """"satanism""" the same way that they drape themselves in the iconography of Catholicism, or Capitalism, or Paganism, or Hedonism or fucking Stoicism. But the organized groups of """"Satanists""" are mostly secular,vor downright atheist, humanists who might do some rituals but mostly do political outreach, as the anon earlier in the thread said. If you think there are cabals of satanists sacrificing babies to mammon or whatever, you need to get a grip, get off the Internet, and go do literally anything else.
>oh shit, they're on to me, time to write an essay
>what the fuck, someone typed words!?>On a message board!?
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creeps. Voodoo dolls, human sacrifices, blood rituals, hidden groves with celtic ruins, secret societies, actual ghosts and demonsLovecraft has literally ALL of that, you fucking retard. Read his stories.
People who dislike Lovecraft are always faggot nerds who learned about it secondhand and discovered all of the "lore" of the gods by reading wiki articles instead of experiencing the stories firsthand with no knowledge.No shit it isn't interesting to you, you basically learned who the killer was in a Poirot story before reading it.
>>96758937Trying to present your subjective opinion as fact only makes you look like a retard. I do actually find the vastness of the universe extremely unsettling.
>>96761583Yes.>>96762225It is how it works.If a game defines two close or synonymous terms as different things, they're different things.You'd know this if you ever played a tabletop game.
>>96762195There's no logic, just you being a contrarian cunt.Thank god that actual players will never be exposed to your smarmy bitchiness you think is clever.
>>96758937"Pagan bad" is a boring trope, and honestly a stupid one that only makes the bible-thumpers happy.Instead, go for "local divinity corrupted" or "genius loci, kept pacified by pagan ritual, goes on a revenge tour because the local church killed the people doing the pacification rituals." That's far more intellectually nourishing, wouldn't you agree?
>>96763823That’s a very small nipple
>>96759491This just shows how little you know about lovecraftian entities AND pagan entities combined.Good lord, you're a special kind of fuckin midwit aren't you?Lovecraftian entities are essentially just concepts or archetypes which are fully independent from humanity; things like Void, Eternity, Abyss, or Expanse. It isn't just the fear of the unknown, but the aspect of crossing a threshold too early. Lovecraftian horror is essentially a form of horror that involves something that is just out of reach of human scope which is why it is always applicable. It is the people mining in ancient times, as individuals digging deeper becomes sick; their skin sloughing off and bleeding from every orifice. They call it a form of cursed mine when nowadays we would call it a uranium mine. Lovecraftian horror is finding a relic or artifact on the moon which proves that there was somehow life before humanity, then being left only with the questions of "why they are gone" and "why they were here?" It is the fundamental, existential proof that we are not only not alone, but not the top of the local cosmic food chain. It's recognition that the Great Sea does indeed have larger fish and, for some reason, their jaws haven't fixated on people yet.Your insistent push on "witches" and "paganism" sounds more like you somehow believe curses are real. Because >Oh no! Evil witch caused the dead to rise!Is somehow far more creepy than something that goes far beyond the playground of earth and life/death.Pathetic sort. Also, fuck your reddit-spacing bullshit. I thought your types were supposed to be fedora-tipping atheists?
>>96758937>Satanic cabals, witch covens and pagan cults do give people the creepsITT: WASP suburban mom gets on le forchong.
>>96758937It's 2025"Satanic panic" is so 90's.
>>96763734But anon, I learned about Lovecraft secondhand and learned all the "lore" from youtube videos before reading him, and after sitting down and actually reading him he's one of my favorite authors.
>>96758937The problem is most people don't know HOW to do Lovecraftian horror well. They just copy a bunch of troupes and think that would work and often makes the cults and monsters feel like a Sat. Morning Cartoon villain then something you read in a good lovecraftian horror.
>>96759491>this unknowable interdimensional entity of cosmic proportions that could tear my soul apart and scatter me across time and space isn't scary... I'm more scared of a muscly dude with red skin and horns because he's intentionally le mean to meI get it now, you're 12 and still dealing with school bullies.
>>96764989And Lovecraft is so 20s... I don't get your point.>>96764962> Lovecraftian entities are essentially just concepts or archetypes which are fully independent from humanity; things like Void, Eternity, Abyss, or Expanse. Not a single one of them is. Where did you even get that from? What is scary about "not being at the top of the food chain" in space and hwo does that translate into gaming at the table? Witches, demons and pagan cults with minor deities are localized insidious threats as opposed to cosmic entities who most of the time mind their own business.>>96763823Good luck playing that>>96763734I did read AND play Lovecraft. I just grew tired of the reddit meme of the eldritch cult and the cosmic entities. Demons are creepier.You all criticize the fedora atheists but playing a game with creepy demons is suddenly being a religious fanatic... Just go back to the subreddit that you're of the mods of and make a long post abut how psychological cosmic horror is. I know it doesn't scare anyone.
>>96765709>You all criticize the fedora atheists but playing a game with creepy demons is suddenly being a religious fanatic...Didn’t you say you were catholic? The entire premise of this thread is that you think demons are scary because you think they’re real.
>>96765709>Good luck playing thatThis applies to all horror.
>>96758959You reminded of a video from a Spanish-faggot YouTuber
>>96765709>What is scary about "not being at the top of the food chain" in space and hwo does that translate into gaming at the table? Witches, demons and pagan cults with minor deities are localized insidious threats as opposed to cosmic entities who most of the time mind their own business.Just because the deities of the Mythos don't care about humans doesn't mean humans can't run into them and be immensely harmed in their wake.Hell, one of the two starter scenarios the Call of Cthulhu rulebook gives you directly involves a Great Old One, Gla'aki, who makes an appearance at the scenario's end point and can start swatting the player characters down like bugs. And, I mean, the original "The Call of Cthulhu" story itself ends with a chase scene as sailors flee an awakening Cthulhu lest he crush them to death or feast on them as his morning snack.A problem with a lot of pastiches of Lovecraft's works is that they're afraid to use the gods or involve them, which just isn't Lovecraftian. In the original works, the gods showed up or interacted with the characters all the time. They just largely didn't care, acting out their grander, more terrible functions, and the harm they cause is simply because they're too powerful and beyond us to want to be careful about us. A wayward flick of their wrist can destroy our entire civilization and they wouldn't notice.
>>96760097It's actually the opposite. The "-ard" suffix is used to denote lesser or debased forms of the root. To understand the true meaning of "wizard," imagine an Italian mobster in the 1950s calling a hapless simp a "wise guy" before fitting them with cement shoes and throwing them into the East Bay.
>>96766705> A problem with a lot of pastiches of Lovecraft's works is that they're afraid to use the gods or involve them, which just isn't Lovecraftian. In the original works, the gods showed up or interacted with the characters all the time.Or look to REH where you still had these alien monstrosities from the beyond who still held sway over ancient civilizations, and had secret cults, and were the cause of superstitious dread, but could still be SWOR’D.
Blows my mind how people think there’s a difference between a cult and a religion.
>>96759458>I'm a card-carrying member of the Satanic Temple. We raise money to fund abortion clinics in states that try to ban it, and fight against religion in classrooms.Translation: I'm a cringe loser who gets a kick out of facilitating the murder of babies.
>>96766989>facilitating the murder of babies.What race are they?
>>96759948The Catholic Church is also against the Death Penalty since Pope Francis changed the Catechism but that doesn't change the fact that God explicitly condones and calls for the death penalty all throughout the Bible. A good Catholic ignores everything said since the election of John XXIII. The last true Pope was Pius XII.
>>96767054You’re a LARPer
>>96761250Talmudic Judiasm is literally a Christian Heresy you stupid fucking heeb.
>>96763252If you are all atheists then why bother with the rituals? Checkmate Satanist
>>96767052They are Satanists, I have a feeling the babies are White.
>>96767061Because I consider the Bible a higher authority for God's will than the Vicar of Rome. You would be wise to do likewise, otherwise you won't be saved.
>>96767157Yes, that’s exactly why you’re a LARPer, protestant.
>>96767177If you consider any man to be a higher authority than scripture then you aren't even Christian.
Holy autism
>>96767054That's not even close to relevant, and the Catholic Church has denied witchcraft since like, the 10th century.
>>96761015Witch obsession is an uniquely prottie thing.Church allowed that only once - during counter-reformation. They very quickly backpedaled out of it. But for the most of its existence, if someone said "this is a witch", the reaction was "YOU are a heretic for claiming such things".
>>96764775>If a game defines two close or synonymous terms as different things, they're different things.You're misinterpreting my post anon, if you call something "magic" in your game but it's a different definition you're just creating a new concept and using an old word for it. "Magic" in your game might mean something different but that has impact on this conversation because we're talking about Magic not "Magic"
>>96767123Same reason why university graduates wear those silly hats.
>>96764787>There's no logic,You can't form a logical argument unless you're arguing it applies to all relevant cases. Your post contains no such argument and even if it did, the argument that only satanic or pagan cults can in engage in arts and crafts and revelry is retarded
>>96767255Context of the game is the only worthwhile topic of discussion.Any gameless arguing about semantics belongs to /his/ where failed novel writers belong.
>>96762293>If you want to know what Christianity is, the Bible is what you should read. Front to back. Attending mass and performing rituals specific to a particular sect will not give you understanding of Christianity.>implying you have ever actually read the Bible.If you did and believe in Jesus as the son of god you would now that his teachings come before all others and supplanted the old testament entirely instead of trying to dig out random out of context quotes you don't even understand.
>>96767192Cool, but that makes you not catholic ffs
>>96761015idk about that man I stopped being debilitatingly afraid of insects and arachnids after reading about them obsessively for a month
>>96767303>Context of the game is the only worthwhile topic of discussion.Game concepts are just things that are in the context of a single game anon, especially when they're pulled from real life concepts.>Any gameless arguing about semanticsArguing that magic can mean whatever you want it to and therefore miracles aren't magic by redefining it is arguing semantics anon.
>>96767310If that makes me not Catholic, that makes Catholics fundamentally not Christian.
>>96767205Dumb Rin poster
>>96767358Yes, it’s been a debate for 500 years.
>>96767255>we're talking about Magic not "Magic"The latter is the more magical. Go ahead and trademark something as magic. Go right ahead. But don’t be mad when something even more magical shows up. Something more bewildering and more incomprehensible and more ridiculous. Magic has always been “magic”. It has always been a punking game. “It’s not magic, it’s a miracle!” is a variation of “it’s not magic, it’s Magick!”. Even science retains the same essence of wizardry. It just uses different words.
>>96767372
>>96767416A slave to a book. Kek. Forced to interpret a book of bullshit. Kek. Priests were just politicians by any other name.
>>96767437You're either a faggot or a kike.
>>96767459And you’re definitely a LARPer.
>>96767416AI is notoriously wrong, but it certainly sounds like the Pope is higher than scripture, if they're reliant on his interpretation of it.
>>96767507But the Pope can still err even according to the Catholic Doctrine of Papal Infallibility and in this case, he isn't interpreting anything, he is just straight up ignoring, which definitely falls under the defintion of erring.
