Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous thread:>>96704041>Thread Question:How old when you played a first decade D&D game (OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BE(CMI), or AD&D 1e) for the first time? What do you remember about your first session? What got you hooked?
>What's an OSR?>Don't know how to get started?The friendly n00b guides can be found here:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3. Make a dungeon special>4. Make a wilderness location>5. Make an urban set piece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8. Make a 4-10 room lair.>9. Make a trap>10. Roll 2D10 and combine
So people played D&D 50 years ago? Come to think of it, modern D&D doesn't have that many of either dragons or dungeons. What did dragons in D&D even do? Just kill adventurers? Were they sentient?
>>96762918They were monsters, sometimes they were big, sometimes small. Players could kill them and take their treasure. It was fun.
>>96762918Imagine a board game, and it was about getting as much treasure and escaping from the dungeon without getting killed.Yep, those were the days ( before I was alive )
>>96763165>a board gameA board game where you're not limited by the board and can do almost anything you can imagine
Preparing to run Dolmenwood as my first OSR game as my books just arrived. I want my players to be an all-human party entering Dolmenwood in a manner similar to the chronicles of narnia's wardrobe. Is this an interesting kickoff to a campaign? or do you all have any other suggestions
>>96763384That sounds fun enough.
>>96762918>So people played D&D 50 years ago?You look like you're expressing surprise that a game published about 51 years ago that became the most popular of its kind was played 50 years ago.>modern D&D doesn't have that many of either dragons or dungeons.Old school D&D didn't have that many dragons running around, not in officially published material anyway. That was part of the inspiration for the Dragonlance setting where dragons would be present in the game, not just dungeons.>Were they sentient?Even in the LBB they are said to be intelligent and some were able to talk and cast spells.
>>96763593>Old school D&D didn't have that many dragons running aroundThere's always black dragons in swamps in OD&D.
>>96763593>Old school D&D didn't have that many dragons running aroundThey're in various encounter tables. What Dragonlance set out to do was make dragons central to the setting because they somehow weren't important enough. Storygamer silliness IMO
>>96763612>StorygamerWoof. Only trolls use that phrase. Easy tipoff to disregard anything you say.
>>96763593>Old school D&D didn't have that many dragons running around, False. They're extremely common in encounter tables.>DragonlanceOff-topic garbage.
>>96763845Your posts are off-topic garbage.
>>96763845You really need to fuck off, forever.
>>96763602>>96763845Even though >>96763612 mentions encounter tables he is at least smart enough to understand that my statement wasn't directed at random encounters or even some planned encounters but that I was talking about, as he puts it, dragons being central to the setting.
>>96763384>Preparing to run Dolmenwood as my first OSR game as my books just arrived.Cool.>I want my players to be an all-human party entering DolmenwoodGreat.>in a manner similar to the chronicles of narnia's wardrobe.Gay.
>>96764975They understood you perfectly well. You were talking about metaplot rubbish, and they brought the discussion back to what is *actually* central in D&D.
>>96765243>metaplot = settingGreat chatting with you.
>>96765269>metaplot = settingIn 2e/3e/5e, certainly. In first decade D&D, absolutely not.
>>96765269>>96764975OD&D and AD&D have an implied setting that you can conclude from the rules.https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx-230B8tqxvMmFrNGJFU3hGNnM
So is playing this kind of thing actually fun or? What's the point of, for example, alignments if you're all just essentially graverobbers and B&E enthusiasts?
>>96765421Something that always pops to my mind when seeing this is "how would humanoids live in this reality?" meaning if you had MU, clerics and strong warriors how would medieval society evolve? Considering that there are monsters around? Would feudalism pop up? Would MU really be secretive guys that hide their spells or would they create a magocratic society trying to min max on those fireballs? Basically this kind of thing, anyone tough of these kind of things? What I mean in general is that if we take 3.5 and take it to its logical conclusion we get Eberron (more or less), but if we take ODD or ADD I don't think we would get the supposed setting as proposed in that doument.
>>96765682>So is playing this kind of thing actually fun or?We've been playing it for 50 years and we still are. So yes. Very much so.>What's the point of, for example, alignments Alignment is an actual game mechanic that affects morale, loyalty, reaction rolls, which spells you can cast, whether you can use poison, which hirelings and monsters you can hire, and so on. When you switch to the wargaming tier of play, it also tends to guide faction building through the afore-mentioned mechanical effects on morale, reactions, and loyalty.In OD&D and chainmail, alignment constraints on factions were even enforced explicitly.>if you're all just essentially graverobbers and B&E enthusiasts?Firstly, Gygaxian D&D is neither about graverobbing (most dungeons are not graves) nor about breaking and entering (no idea where you got that from).But either way, the idea of alignment as purely or mostly character flavour and personality/backstory is 2e/3e/5e garbage. In Gygaxian D&D, alignment had many tangible and strictly defined in-game effects.
>>96765827>anyone tough of these kind of things? To an extent, yes. Both ACKS and Harnmaster did dedicate a fair amount of thought to these things, coming to quite different conclusions, certainly also because of different game mechanics.>if we take ODD or ADD I don't think we would get the supposed setting as proposed in that doument.That's a fair question. Honestly, I don't have an answer: Real magic that actually works, ubiquitous terrible monsters, planar horrors, what would their effect on society be?But I do have some theories, and I'm highly scpetical of your "magocracy" outcome in O/AD&D's milieu. A magocracy is a society in which Magic-Users impose their will on everybody else through magical power. Absent monsters and demons, that's almost certainly what would happen: once you have removed outside pressure, intra-species competition becomes the main driver of societal and even biological evolution, and high level Magic-Users certainly would have the upper hand in such a conflict.However, in the "real" O/AD&D world, the ongoing struggle between humanity and the chthonic forces ensures that when the monsters come knocking at the city gates, the local ruling MU will have to make a choice: Surrender to the monsters (neutral), ally with them (evil/chaotic), or quit the bullshit and take arms against them (lawful/good)?Ultimately, only harmonious (good/lawful) societies in which MUs, Fighters, Clerics, and non-classed individuals all collaborate against the common enemy can survive and thrive. And in those societies, almost certainly even Thieves and Assassins would do their part in war times. In fact, that's probably the reason they're tolerated in the first place.
>>96765832Just shut up and fuck off, you complete retard.You're wrong on so many levels, educating you just so you can start to understand how stupid you are would likely take years.
>>96759863>IIRC, Priests and Clerics were later additions and the original classes were Fighting Man, Thief and Magic User.You do not remember correctly, I'm afraid. The Thief was never part of original D&D, it was invented by some fans after the game's release.>>96765391The cyclops monster is an orc. There's another picture in the book of adventurers fighting a bunch of them. I'm unsure what the feral hoes are supposed to be. Harpies, maybe?
>>96763845Hilarious how mad a simple statement like this makes the resident troll. He can't even bring himself to put a realistic distance between his samefagging seetheposts.
>>96766092It's absolutely true that thieves were introduced in Supplement I, but clerics are also known to be the last class of the core three to be created: Chainmail had heroes and wizards but no clerics or patriarchs or anything to that effect.
>>96765832>it also tends to guide faction buildingIn fact, this is the original purpose of alignment in the game, which is why OD&D/Chainmail, the original game, is more rigid about it. Morale/Loyalty, hiring restrictions and reaction rolls are also all connected to factions (and to each other) pretty obviously.
>>96766111Sure, absolutely, but Anon says he believes that Clerics were later additions *than Thieves*, which is what I'm responding to.>the original classes were Fighting Man, Thief and Magic Useris simply incorrect. If he, or you, had said the original classes were Fighting-Man and Wizard I would've understood he meant in a pre-D&D state and not replied.As an aside, it's sort of funny that the hobbit, vampire and even F/MU multiclass all predate the Cleric as character classes.
>>96766138Yeah, it's a pretty elegant system, in a "show don't tell" kind of way. Alignment as an actual game mechanics is one of the most misunderstood facets of Gygaxian D&D because so many people didn't read or understand the DMG. And also because the later narrative / railroading editions retroactively colour their expectations about what alignment must be.These three simple tables, if properly applied, have a profound effect in a campaign in which the players actually take advantage of all that the game has to offer and the DM takes them in stride as a referee rather than as a wannabe novel writer.
>>96765927Yeah I proposed a magocracy cause when wizads can "spam" spell each day for little cost with great effect they become real strong, but in general there is to believe how hard life in such a plane would be, with demons running around, vampires, dragons etc, makes me think if humanity could even reach the medieval age to begin with.
>>96766160We agree. I was just sharing an interesting titbit of information and implicitly making a hypothesis about why the other Anon confused the order of introduction of the cleric and thief.
>>96765832>A>We've been playing it for 50 years and we still are. So yes. Very much so.You, personally? Are you like 70 years old? How are you using a computer, and 4chan, at that?>strict alignment restraintsDoes this mean your PC could be a murdering psychopath who rapes and tortures but be LG just because they belong to the LG faction and do evil things to CE creatures? How would a PC party of differing alignment even work, then?>Firstly, Gygaxian D&D is neither about graverobbing (most dungeons are not graves) nor about breaking and entering (no idea where you got that from).I don't know. I read the primer in the sticky and that's the impression I've gotten. The party doesn't do quests, they go somewhere they're not supposed to be and try to leave with treasure.It's not that I'm not intrigued by this but I'm just a 5ebabby and have played Planescape Torment 10 years ago and this all seems wild. >>96766042I'm the Anon the post is replying to. Why this outburst of insults?
>>96766187>makes me think if humanity could even reach the medieval age to begin withYeah, even sustaining agriculture, and hence urbanisation and any kind of society that isn't just hunter-gatherers, would be a extremely challenging. I think Clerics would play a crucial role with spells for improving the productivity of fields. We only have Create Water, Purify Food & Drink, and Create Food & Water in the PHB, if I remember correctly, and that's already a lot but, from the worldbuilding point of view, specific agriculture-related spells should exist. Something like Plant Growth but for cereals instead of thickets and weeds.
>>96766225It would genuinely take several thousand words to explain why he's such a retard. Like someone saying "The earth is flat and made of cheese" being so wrong in just eight words that you don't even know where to begin with correcting him.
>>96766245But what is he wrong about? Is he like some of the tradLARP retards who dream about the "good old days" but would end up in ER if they had to shovel for 30 minutes? Was the game not like he says it was/is?
>>96766225>You, personally? Are you like 70 years old? How are you using a computer, and 4chan, at that?I'm in my 50s. I've started playing around 1981, so "only" 44 years for me. >Does this mean your PC could be a murdering psychopath who rapes and tortures but be LGTorture is absolutely 100% compatible with being Lawful Good, as Gygax explicitly said on more than one occasion. In fact, This is a classic 2e / WotC misconception on alignment, also caused by the fact that those games use epic fantasy (e.g. Tolkien) and superhero comics as inspiration source material rather than Appendix N.As for rape, I don't let my players explore sexual themes at my table, so it has never come up.>How would a PC party of differing alignment even work, then?AD&D has a bunch of specific rules on who and what e.g. Paladins and Rangers can associate with.>they go somewhere they're not supposed to be and try to leave with treasureAnother misconception from post-Gygax D&D. Going into a dungeon or out in the wilds, killing evil and chaotic monsters, and taking their possessions as rightful loot is exactly what a Lawful Good hero does in AD&D. Doubly so because by doing so they gain experience, power, and levels, which is what will allow them to lead armies and fight more effectively when war comes.>>96766225>I'm the Anon the post is replying to. Why this outburst of insults?There's ONE specific guy, known as 2etard or fishfag, who is angry that the general is about first decade D&D only and excludes 2e because of how it deviates from Gygaxian D&D. He's been pestering the general for years, trying to topic shift it unsuccessfully for a very long time. You'll learn to recognise him and ignore him if you stick around.
>>96766193Very reasonable.
>>96766225>>96766245Please don't feed the troll. Stick to the on-topic discussion.
>>96766225>Why this outburst of insults?The guy having the chimpout is some sort of mentally ill troll who can't stand that AD&D 2e doesn't belong in this thread. For some reason, he thinks that spewing deranged insults will make everyone agree with him, instead of look down on him. It can't be helped, he's a form of detritus that's basically inevitable on an anonymous imageboard.
>>96766252He's this weird little "gygaxian" dickrider gremlin, who's skates between being half-right with a drop of real information and completely wrong on a fundamental level.>Was the game not like he says it was/is?The "game" was never a unified thing to begin with, with rules open to interpretation (and modification) and no two groups playing the game in the same way. "Open to interpretation" doesn't even really begin to explain how loose and poorly worded the rules were, with "demanding personal interpretation" being more accurate.The problem with how wrong he is is that he's wrong about the basic fundamental concept of what RPGs are and were, and it's actually daunting to figure out where to even begin to explain to him how wrong he is about essentially everything.
>>96766282>Torture is absolutely 100% compatible with being Lawful Good, as Gygax explicitly said on more than one occasion.Respectfully, I think you're misremembering this; torture is described more than once in the rulebooks as an evil act, analogously to the use of poison. What Gygax said was LG that I know of was stuff like killing orc babies, since they will only grow up to become adult orcs, who are innately evil monsters.In other words, we can see a kind of division where the act of slaying is not innately evil, whereas the *method* can be.
>>96766292>>96766298Fuck the fuck off already, you brain poison.
>>96766322nayrt, but I swear I've seen it that torture is fine for LG when it means deterring Chaotic/Evil from transgressing against LG.
>>96766322Gygax would contradict himself constantly and endlessly. Trying to use him as a point of authority is ironic, because even Gygax himself said not to do that.
>>96766282>>How would a PC party of differing alignment even work, then?>AD&D has a bunch of specific rules on who and what e.g. Paladins and Rangers can associate with.To elaborate on this, early D&D was founded on an assumption of 20-50 players per DM, open tables, multiple PCs per player, adversarial play, and parties splitting and forming based on who actually shows up at every given session. So parties with characters of incompatible alignments wouldn't necessarily work, and players would have to agree on which PC from their stable to use on each foray. Even if you run a semi-open table, you can still have players create multiple characters and be flexible on which PC is used in each session, using some form of 1:1 time when no play is happening, requiring returning to safety at the end of each session, and using the many downtime rules from the DMG to enforce/encourage rotation, including training, disease and parasites (another hidden alignment mechanic through the Paladin's special abilities), hireling, and henchman procurement delays, Assassin missions (Assassins are the Kings of Downtime), construction rules, and so on.
>>96766282You spend way too much time trying to create a boogeyman, shouldn't you be busy dying already?
>>96766282I have a feeling playing D&D during your time was better simply because it was easier to schedule people back then so you got to play more of it, but maybe not. It seems like a weird game in which every character is exactly the same - some poor fuck who wants to become Elon Musk when they grow up - which is an impersonal, but honest way to play PCs. D&D 5e always seemed full of artifacts that serve no purpose but I always assumed they did in the past - like hammers, pitons, crowbars, rope, etc.>>96766315So everybody played what today would be considered a homebrew back then?>>96766360>20-50 players per DMWait what? Where did people play this? It's almost impossible to schedule our 6 man group reliably once every week, not to mention nobody house is that big. Is that just a pre-00s USA thing?
>>96766298>mentally ill troll who can't stand that AD&D 2eAD&D 2e is off-topic on this general, has been for many years, and was created in opposition to Gygaxian D&D. Get over it.
>>96766381>muh boogeymanLmao, it's hilarious that after all this time you're still paralytically stuck in the same 200-word vocabulary.
>>96766252> Is he like some of the tradLARP retards who dream about the "good old days" but would end up in ER if they had to shovel for 30 minutes? Was the game not like he says it was/is?He's basically a "BroSR" retard.
>>96766393Wrong, retard.OSR started out of fear that WotC, which held all the rights to older editions, would stop reprinting them in order to avoid competition for 3e. OSR did not start in the 90s, after 2e was released. It started around 2002-2003, not long after 3rd editions release.You completely retarded mong.
>>96766322I think you have to distinguish between a) Torture of evil individuals that is aimed a specific rightful cause, such as extracting information, and done in legally sanctioned situations.b) Torture for the sake of torture as an end in and of itself, or to inflict pain on creatures somebody dislikes.The first one is perfectly compatible with LG, the second one isn't
>>96766389>I have a feeling playing D&D during your time was better simply because it was easier to schedule people back thenNot him, but this was absolutely the case. Computer games didn't even exist. Imagine if everyone in your town who wanted to play Xbox had to go to your house, and they could only do it if you were hand-cranking the Xbox to life the whole time.>So everybody played what today would be considered a homebrew back then?Again, that guy you're replying to here is an angry speg and you won't ever get a non-troll response out of him.>Wait what? Where did people play this?Not at the same time. A 20-50 man player pool, from which you'd draw maybe eight players for a given session. For larger player pools it was also common to have more than one co-DM for the same campaign; Gygax did this himself.
>>96766393Did you read my post at all before responding to it? That's exactly what I said. Don't let the 2etard wind you up so hard you lose track of the negatives in a sentence.
>>96766393Please stop saying "for many years". It's been off-topic the whole time, since the very beginning.
>>96766440There is no "2etard", you faggot. You keep trying to make a boogeyman out of everyone that disagrees with you, because you are a disingenuous troll who can't argue directly and always needs to make a sideshow out of people telling you to stop being such a little shit.
>>96766453The archive tells you that you are lying, and yet you still lie.
>>96766459>muh boogeyman
>I'm the tourist that originally started this shitflinging with >>96765682>>96766401>racism and misogyny on TwitterI'm not particularly racist or misogynistic but when I see this as an argument about why somebody should be dismissed I instantly lose any trust in the validity of any other arguments the person talking is making.>>96766432That all seems wild and really fucking cool, but I'm not sure if I could ever adjust.
>>96765682No, its terrible and icky with maths and colonialism. Go away. If an anon can't be assed to read the first 2 posts of a general they're not going to be worth handholding through the rest of it.
>>96766389>playing D&D during your time was better simply because it was easier to schedule people back then so you got to play more of itThat was definitely a huge component. As a small kid I spent most of my weekends playing D&D, for probably 8-12 hours each time.Most of it is still doable, though, thanks to the interwebs, if you can tolerate Discord.>>20-50 players per DM>Wait what? Where did people play this?20-50 players in the campaign, not in each single session. Picrel gives you detailed information on how to do it, the top quote is from page 5 of the first D&D book ever published, LBB1.>It's almost impossible to schedule our 6 man group reliably once every week, not to mention nobody house is that big.See, that's another of the sick things about 2e/WotC D&D, the presumption that you have to coordinate with a set number of players to have a session because you're running a unified campaign centred around the STORY of an individual party of specifically identified PCs.In an open or semi-open table, you don't need to schedule with anybody. You just have a set time and place, and whoever shows up plays. By the end of the session, all characters have to return to safety.
>>96766401>He's basically a "BroSR" retard.Nice try. When the BrOSR started LEARNING AD&D I had already been playing for almost four decades.
>>96766480>I'm the tourist that originally started this shitflingingDon't worry about it. That guy isn't your fault, he's legitimately mentally ill and has been obsessed with this general for several years. He oscillates between trying to topic slide it, throwing these assrages when he realizes he still can't do it, and starting rival generals that inevitably die on the vine. Anything might set him off.>That all seems wild and really fucking cool, but I'm not sure if I could ever adjust.No, very few people play like that anymore, you'll find that the current OSR is mostly your typical DM and 3-5 players like any table. I think a lot of people ITT wish they could have one of those huge games, but the conditions just aren't there for it anymore.
>>96766480>I'm not particularly racist or misogynistic but when I see this as an argument about why somebody should be dismissed I instantly lose any trust in the validity of any other arguments the person talking is making.A lot of "BrOSR" guys genuinely do just use D&D as a way to practice proxy-/pol/-warfare. You know those guys who keep spamming "freakshit/storyshit/storygame" nonsense about how if you don't play White Male Fighters with no personality, you're a homosexual deviant? Those are basically BrOSR retards. We even have a BrOSR retard who pops up often in this general who just screams that everyone who disagrees with him is "brown" like that's the end of the argument.Yes, it's cringey to try and "cancel" people for not being sufficiently left, but the guy explaining BrOSR really couldn't just leave that part out because it actually is a fairly prominent aspect of the BrOSR identity.
>>96766504I think my brain is going to explode. Is that why all these people wore fantasy bullshit in the 90's and prior? I always thought THAT was old school roleplaying.
>>96766540You really need to stop acting like you speak for this general and that you're not a retarded troll.
>>96766548>Is that why all these people wore fantasy bullshit in the 90's and prior?People wore what? Sorry, I'm not following. But 1990s D&D was not old school = Gygaxian D&D, that started to die around 1984 and was completely over by the time Gygax was booted out of TSR.
>>96766513>rides gygax's nuts>believes there's one TRVE way to play>is completely wrong about most things and has a severe learning disabilityNah, you're BrOSR, through and through.
>Tourist>>96766540>I think a lot of people ITT wish they could have one of those huge games, but the conditions just aren't there for it anymore.That's genuinely heartbreaking. I enjoy playing 5e with my friends but it happens rarely because it's always something and we live in separate towns.>>96766547>You know those guys who keep spamming "freakshit/storyshit/storygame" nonsense about how if you don't play White Male Fighters with no personality, you're a homosexual deviant? No, I really don't, because I'm a board tourist. >Yes, it's cringey to try and "cancel" people for not being sufficiently left, but the guy explaining BrOSR really couldn't just leave that part out because it actually is a fairly prominent aspect of the BrOSR identity.It's just in my experience, whenever people in a fandom or hobby try to dismiss somebody for muh racism, the person in question tends to be more knowledgeable and passionate about the hobby than them.>>96766588I vaguely remember hearing about people wearing fantasy costumes and "roleplaying", and that's what my brain always associated with D&D before I ever played it. I always assumed you had to wear a wizard outfit and do a silly voice to play a wizard, for example.
>>96766440>Did you read my post at all before responding to it?Apologies for the friendly fire. When I identify a post as written by 2etard = fishfag I immediately stop reading. Looks like that led me into error and sin. I shall atone by saying three Hail Garys and prayforyourtable.
>>96766548>wore fantasy bullshitI'm not really sure what you mean by this, but for a brief rundown of the story-driven play Anon is talking about, you know Dragonlance, right? That was a set of modules before it was a novel series*, and those modules were based on the idea of a set party playing through a long, epic quest. The first module came out in 1984 and was a massive hit right away, because that sort of LotR Simulator was what lots of players had wanted D&D to be the whole time. It wasn't designed to do that, though, it was designed for the kind of gameplay Anon talks about, and so when we talk about old-school gameplay what we mean is recovering that original play style that precedes the quest railroads. That's why the commonly accepted end of the old-school era is 1984, when that first Dragonlance module came out. There had already been pushes in that story-based direction before then, but when Dragonlance became a huge sales hit it more or less wiped out the older way, at least in terms of TSR releases. A few modules of the older style were still released after DL1, but the ship had basically sailed at that point.* Or more accurately they sort of came out in parallel, but with the novels delayed compared to the modules covering the same ground. This isn't really an important distinction though.
>>96766611>I vaguely remember hearing about people wearing fantasy costumes and "roleplaying", and that's what my brain always associated with D&D before I ever played it.Ah, no, that's absolutely not how Gygaxian D&D was ever played. Gygax even disapproved if you did funny voices. Nobody wore costumes. D&D was born and developed by grognards (wargamers) in wargaming clubs.LARPing / community theater stuff is a completely different culture of play.
>>96766611>it happens rarely because it's always something and we live in separate towns.Exactly.>I vaguely remember hearing about people wearing fantasy costumes and "roleplaying",Ohhh, you mean like that. No, that's just goofy, nothing to do with us. (If you're actually doing it outdoors and so on it's LARP, which is still goofy and still nothing to do with us but people do do it, sometimes with insane levels of investment. Look up Bicolline for an extreme example.)>>96766616Roll 1d12 to see how many wandering encounters you must fight in penance. Ego te absolvo, in nomine Gariis, et Arnesonii, et spiritus ludi, Amen.
>>96766651>Gygax even disapproved if you did funny voices.*muffled angry disembodied voice from behind the filing cabinet*
>>96766651It's just that I'm 30 and both of these ways to play came way before my time - I had no idea there were such factional splits in "D&D society". I'm enjoying discovering literal D&D lore. I think a documentary needs to be made about this - Attenborough style.>>96766672>Ohhh, you mean like that. No, that's just goofy, nothing to do with us.Well that's what I thought for 15 years.So my conclusion - there are 3 types or DnD:>old wargaming SAW simulator sandbox DnD>goofy costume DnD>modern heroic power fantasy DnD
>>96766611>It's just in my experience, whenever people in a fandom or hobby try to dismiss somebody for muh racism, the person in question tends to be more knowledgeable and passionate about the hobby than them.You've got to keep in mind that guy wasn't "dismissing" them for being racist/misogynistic, he was explaining that was part of the identity they present and identify with, because that's genuinely how they've decided to present themselves. It's actually part of this whole stupid "culture war" business, where "trad gaming" is for straight white males and everything else is for women and minorities, and the more "traditional" your games are, the more you're definitely 100% not a homosexual. The main reason the BrOSR is a bunch of fags is the whole arguing about what the "True Old School" is. The politics business is just the unfortunate reality we live in, where politics gets dragged into everything. Feel free to ignore that part, especially on 4chan.
>>96766611>>You know those guys who keep spamming "freakshit/storyshit/storygame" nonsense about how if you don't play White Male Fighters with no personality, you're a homosexual deviant? >No, I really don't, because I'm a board tourist.FYI, that doesn't happen here. Not sure the extent to which it happens in the BrOSR, but this isn't a BrOSR board, that's twitter culture wars bullshit. He's making shit up in a desperate attempt to disrupt a constructive and respectful conversation.>>96766687>*muffled angry disembodied voice from behind the filing cabinet*I've never had the fortune of playing with Gary, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said something like that.>>96766706>It's just that I'm 30 and both of these ways to play came way before my time - I had no idea there were such factional splits in "D&D society". I'm enjoying discovering literal D&D lore. I think a documentary needs to be made about this - Attenborough style.You might enjoy Secrets of Blackmoor, then! It's a documentary covering the years that led to the creation of OD&D. Heavily focused on Arneson's contributions.
>>96766723>He's making shit up in a desperate attempt to disrupt a constructive and respectful conversation.You're lying heavily while spreading misinformation with dots of information, hoping everyone is too dumb to call you out. And, when you're called out, you sperg out about it to cry about your boogeyman. You're a piece of shit.>FYI, that doesn't happen here.What kind of bullshit lie are you even trying to pull here. How the fuck can you even try to pass off that lie?https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/white%20male/type/op/
>Tourist>>96766723https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOUksDJCijwWhen I started playing D&D roughly 10 years ago, my friends made me watch this with them. I always assumed THAT was the way DnD was played in the "good old days". I had ZERO idea it all started in the 70s.>Not sure the extent to which it happens in the BrOSR, but this isn't a BrOSR board,But what is a BrOSR board, then? I noticed 90% of posts here are not about trannies.I'll check the movie out. I like understanding the whys of things, and nothing in modern D&D ever suggests anything about its past.>>96766749You like AD&D 2e (did I even call it correctly). Why?
>>96766749>muh boogeyman
>>96766389>So everybody played what today would be considered a homebrew back then?It would inevitably include house rules, because even something like initiative wasn't straightforward and people would interpret the wording in different ways. Or, they would just outright change those rules outright because they were pretty clumsy and awkward.Even Gygax explicitly admitted to using house rules, even beyond the natural differences in interpretation that result from the rules being often obtuse and abstract.
>>96766784If you're super interested in all the gritty details, there's a book called Playing at the World that goes into the creation of D&D with extreme granularity. It's long as fuck though, two volumes in the latest edition.
>>96766810>two volumes in the latest editionIs it still being expanded upon??
>>96766837I don't actually know how much he expanded it, it may just be that the first edition was a fucking phone book and he decided to split it up for purely practical reasons.
>>96766810I'm not sure my video game rotted brain could read a 1000+ pages, but I may just do that one day
>>96766798>old man trying his hardest to fit inPeople don't actually post like that here.
>>96766453Weird how you tried to just rush past >>96766427
>First decade D&D started around 2002-2003>Why is nobody taking me seriously
>>96766945>has no idea when the OSR started>shitposts anywayJust shut the fuck up, you total retard.
>>96767038"OSR" is just an odd way of saying "first decade D&D". First decade D&D started in 1974. When people started to say "OSR" instead of "first decade D&D" is utterly irrelevant: It's still first decade D&D.
>>96767095Well, it's also the distinction of following the rules procedures in those editions of D&Ds with the understanding that even back then people played in a more freeform way comparable to modern D&D i.e. no strict time keeping, no random encounter tables, no mapping, no caller
>>96767095For fuck's sake, you should at least educate yourself to the standards of "I've at least read the wikipedia page."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_School_Renaissance
>>96767125Sure, it's about playing first decade D&D in a certain way, roughly speaking as Gygax did. That was also born in 1974, officially at least. Claiming that what we are doing here started in 2002 is completely missing the point of this general.
>>96767159No, that's you imposing some bizarre interpretation of "broadly" into "ass-pained strictly". >roughly speaking as Gygax didThat's entirely your head canon.
>>96767134>wikipediangmi
>>96767170You having sub-wikipedia level intelligence is embarrassing.
>>96767169>>96767179>less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agencyThat is, as Gygax and Arneson did it and *not* as Hickman, 2e, 3e, and 5e did and still do.
>>96767169If the rules existed there had to be someone that was playing that way such that they felt it was a "rule" to begin with.We don't talk about Gygax making shit up and putting untested content in the books. Shush.
>Someone did homebrew rules for running a Birthright-esq campaign using ACKS>Regency points can be used as fate pointsThat's fucking genius and I'm annoyed at myself for not thinking about it, it's such a subtle way to convey the PCs are destined for greater things tby their divine blood.Holy shit that's the good stuff. I might steal that outright.Also:>Piece of shit>BoogeymanGentlemen, slaughter the fatted calf, light the bonfires, man the harpoons and dance to the rough music; the prodigal fish returned.
Why the fuck are you feeding the troll by arguing with him, Anon? You know that he has a brain problem and literally cannot stop insisting that 2e belongs here.
>>96767189This is the nonsense you've been spewing for ages, which has been routinely debunked. >less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agencyYou're ignoring the countless linear adventures of OD&D and AD&D1e, while also dismissing the idea that players have agency in later editions. You're trying to invent pure bullshit, and it's sickening how much you seem to actually have allowed yourself to start believing in your own lies.Player agency is good. It's not exclusive to pre-2e D&D. Hell, one of the first OSR games was C&C, which was built off of the d20 chasis in order to abide by the OGL, which opened up the door for other games like OSRIC to follow once C&C showed that WotC would actually uphold the OGL.
>>96767210You are the troll.
>>96767203Tbh it seems pretty pointless to combine Birthright's large-scale abstract domain management with ACKS' spreadsheet autism approach, especially considering Birthright was barely playtested whereas ACKS is robust to the last millimeter. What are you seeing as the benefit of blending those? Genuinely curious.>the prodigal fish returnedDoes this mean Son of Todd died? I can't be assed to go and check.
>>96767247>he is once again attempting the "C&C is TRVE OSR" playbookFor the love of God at least renew your material.
>>96767210You really need to take your BrOSR ass out of here and quit being such a dumb cunt.How this general got infected with the absolute worst part of the OSR is pretty fucking unfortunate.
>>96767280>gets hit by well known fact>"get new material!"The truth doesn't change, you dumbass.
>>96767247>players have agency in later editions
>>96767305>>96766858
>>96767210He's going to be here regardless, he's going to shit up the thread regardless, he's not going to leave regardless, these things are known and proven.Might as well engage in the kind of bloodsports our bearbaiting ancestors did and get some entertainment out of the fuckhead.>>96767262I've got a bit of a soft spot for Birthright I suppose, I do like the idea of a very heavily grounded, low(er) fantasy setting that leans more towards medieval aesthetics, intrigue and politics.It's one of those flawed but conceptually cool settings that tickle the same 'I can fix this' instinct as a half-cut Black Goth girl at a bar who just started trauma dumping her no-daddy issues into my lap.ACKS is absolutely the superior system mechanically mind you, but look be square in the eye and say 'Highlander: Total War the RPG doesn't sound like a fun concept' if you can bring yourself to lie to us both like that.
>>96767296Ah, no, Fishy, you don't seem to be picking up what I'm putting down. Let me lay it out for you: Nobody here buys your revisionism. You can't even meaningfully confuse newbies. Hell, most of us don't even get angry about your spam, just kinda tired. As such, all that's left is to judge your performance AS performance: on its originality and creativity. What I'm telling you is that these are sorely deficient.
I'm looking for some old school BLACK-AND-WHITE illustrations of men-at-arms. Something that would fit the aesthetics of the three AD&D core books, including e.g. Gillespie's stuff.
>>96767325Oh don't get me wrong, Anon, in terms of setting concept I have no trouble understanding it, although for me personally the divine bloodline stuff conflicts with how I'd want a low fantasy medieval setting to work. That's just me though, mind you, I totally understand how those mechanics tie into the self-conception of the medieval nobility and can create a more psychologically authentic-feeling setting that way.It's just the mechanical integration aspect I was wondering about.
>>96767210I've never understood why you think you can pretend that this general is different. You keep trying every possible shady fucking "tactic" to get your way, and it's insane.Appeal to authority? You suck Gygax's dick like you're poisoned and you think the antidote's in it.Appeal to tradition? You are quick to describe the "ONE TRVE WAY TO PLAY", but only by ignoring all the evidence that contradicts you.Argumentum ad Populum? Even without most people actually agreeing with you, you put so much energy into crying that everyone agrees with you, and everyone who disagrees with you is one person. Argumentum ad Tantrum? You have a meltdown persistently whenever anyone hits one of your triggers. This general is like all the other generals on 4chan. It's tied to a topic, not to the cultish concept only held by a tiny clique, especially when that tiny clique is completely disassociated with reality and the outside world. You keep doing everything in your power to try and turn this general into your personal echo chamber, and then trying to indoctrinate any unsuspecting newcomers into your cult, and all from the stance of pure arrogance built on a foundation of nothing but fallacies.
>>96767344Your lies don't even hold up against checking wikipedia.
>>96767393That's what I'm curious about as well.I'll admit I don't like the way they've done bloodline as a stat in and of itself. But I could see it working potentially.https://arbrethil.substack.com/p/acks-birthrightHave a copy.
