/k/ Edition>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<Previous Thread: >>96698459/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3>>CHECK THE SHARE THREAD FOR MISSING MATERIALS<<TQ: What is your favourite firearm in any of paizo games?
2eIf you take an archetype that has feats in it that are also in your class feats, would taking that feat as a class feat also count for one of the three archetype feats needed before you can select a new archetype?
When will the miserable 2e arc end
Do Witchwarpers in 2e not get training in their tradition skill? Is there any other spellcaster in the game that doesn't get training in the skill associated with their spellcasting tradition?
>>96772834Some Mystic subclasses don't get their respective skill training, but otherwise no. All other casters, full and half, get training in their core tradition. Hard to tell if this is just an oversight or some strange design team ideal between the 2 games.
Are people still ragging on casters even though there are no other ways to reliably cheese through fights?
>>96772551Assuming they are available at the same level, yes. Shitty example, but Bloodrager gets Bespell Strikes at 8, while Sorcerer gets it at 4. You couldn't get it at 4 and count it as a Bloodrager feat. But if they both got it at 4, you count it as whichever you choose.
>>96772983Yes.
>>96772551You can only exit an archetype after you pick two feats + dedication, even if your class would have those feats as well.E.g., Twinned Defense picked as a Fighter class feat doesn't count for exiting Dual-Weapon Warrior.
>>96772555When Paizo runs of design space to shit out new splatbooks for. So probably a long time considering how long it took them to reach that point in 1E.
>>96772834>>96772913My guess is that someone writing the game assumed Paradox skills would be tradition skills, and then Paradox skills are typically entirely different.Kind of fits with them blending the class with Precog though, as lorewise a lot of the paradoxes and anchors assume the character fell into it accidentally and are using their reality warping powers instinctually.
Anyone have an opinion on what the rough level/damage/HP ceiling is for a single boss in a PWL game? I kinda want to scare the piss out of the party but I don't want to just shoot them up like fish in a barrel. I'm drafting up a highly mobile flyer to hit them with at the moment but I'm drawing a blank on where to properly start on my number crunching.
>>96775128Party is level 5 btw. Completely slipped my mind.
Forensic Medicine Investigator that uses a Firearm as main weapondoes it work? A Healer with a gun?
>>96775441Why not? It keeps them at range to deliver damage, and it's a small, easy to holster weapon for when they need their hands free.
>>96775441Investigators are good gun-users. Risky Reload from the gunslinger/unexpected sharpshooter archetypes lets you reload as part of a Strike, with the downside being that your gun misfires if you miss. You, as an investigator, know what you're going to roll on that Strike. If your Devise a Stratagem rolls high? Use Risky Reload to reload+Strike. If your DaS rolls low? Do something else. You basically ignore the "risk" part of Risky Reload.The double-barreled musket is a solid 2h firearm for you, which also synergizes with DaS. You can do your usual Risky Reload+Strike thing most turns, but when your DaS roll comes up with a crit, unload both barrels for Fatal d12 crit damage to blow somebody's head off. It is really helpful for firearms users to know what they're going to roll on a Strike before they roll it. I'm less inclined to use 1h firearms, since the shortbow is literally right there as a 1h+ weapon with reload 0. That's tough to beat unless you have something you want to actually hold in your off-hand.As always, your main problem is going to be figuring out what you do when your DaS roll sucks, but that's an issue for every investigator, not just firearm-users. Also, if you weren't already aware of it, you're going to get the medic archetype at some point. You just are. It's tailor-made for the Forensic Medicine methodology. In a free archetype game it's likely to be your first one, since it immediately bumps you to Expert in medicine and you can get back out of it by level 4 if you take Doctor's Visitation in your FA feat slot and Treat Condition as a skill feat. That means you could potentially grab medic, then be back out of it in time to grab gunslinger/unexpected sharpshooter at level 4 in your regular class feat slot.
>>96775441For a bit of a meme, you can also use Life Shot ammo to heal at range too.
>>96775441I've played it, works pretty well. You want to go with a Jezail so you can have a free hand for Battle Medicine, but two hand it when you get a high DaS roll.
It sucks realizing a Pathfinder Unchained version of Starfinder 1e would be so much better 2e so far, but I'll never find a game to play it
Any good magic lanterns to use for a Thaumaturge's lantern implement? Looking at AoN, the best i have found is Ghost Lantern and Midday Lantern.
>>96779945Shining Symbol maybe? It's nice for a Thaum too because you can give your enemies a weakness to spirit damage with it, then exploit that weakness.
>>96779109I was actually writing unofficial SF Unchained rulebook around that concept, but it got kinda dropped when paizo axed support for sf1e
My group runs PF 1e, and I'm wanting to run them through a short vampire centric scenario.Preferably mid level around 10-12.Any recommendations.
>>96782242>short vampirehttps://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npcs-cr-9/prankster-illusionist-gnome-illusionist-10/withhttps://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire/anyway, puns aside, Ashes at Dawn is probably one of the few official vampire things at that level range.
just got to the part in Season of Ghosts with the big twist and I feel nothing but dissatisfaction. Shit fucking sucks, especially with the "you've done this 115 times already" - can't get rid of this deterministic sensation that nothing we've done matters, at all. Completely ripped my investment in the story away.
>>96785275Anon... there are two big twists. It's supposed to be somewhat unsettling, but things are going to change pretty soon.
THEY BUFFED THE FUCKING HEKATONKHEIRES TITAN
>>96779109Starfinder Enhanced was supposed to be Unchained but then they pussied out.Personally working on a new space combat system and rewriting drift travel to feel less gamist.
>>96773396>>96773353That's so goddamn lame.
What is Expeditious Retreat called in 2e?
>>96787754Fleet Step is the nearest equivalent, +30' land speed for an encounter. Lasting for 1 minute rather than 1 minute/level makes it harder to pre-buff, but not by much. Rank 2 Tailwind is the all-day version, but only grants 20'.Expeditious Retreat was also more directly referenced in what's essentially a joke item (although it's got some value for low-level games), in the form of a dirt-cheap potion that grants a whopping 40' movement speed on the condition that you do nothing but haul ass away from every enemy you're aware of for the entire duration. That potion was recently renamed to Potion of Emergency Escape after the OGL kerfuffle.
>>96786510>impossible stature aura was increased by 20 ft>Hundred-Handed Whirlwind now doesn't increase MAP until after all its attacks resolvefunny as fuck of paizo to go "but what if it could make EVEN MORE MAP-LESS ATTACKS", but it's a level 24 freakbeast so I guess I shouldn't be surprised
>>96775128I think using a young dragon as a starting point would work as a basis, though I would soften it up a bit by at least using the weak template + maybe dropping the AC a bit just to make it not a slaughter
>>96775818Not him, but any other juicy investigator synergies to aim for?
>>96789259>Hundred-Handed Whirlwind now doesn't increase MAP until after all its attacks resolveI didn't even notice that when I made that post I thought the only buff was increasing the range of the aura what the fuck
>>96791076Like, just in general? Big-picture, investigators want two things: abilities that give big bonuses from a single successful Strike (like Risky Reload), and offensive abilities that don't include Strikes. The abilities that rely on Strikes let them squeeze the most value out of a high DaS roll, while the abilities that don't include Strikes give them offensive options when a low DaS roll means that any Strike is going to miss. Eldritch Shot is a good example of an ability that gives a lot of value from a single Strike. It's three actions and lets you piggyback a spell on it. The downside (usually) is that, if you fail the Strike, you also waste the spell. Investigator obviously mitigates that almost entirely. The Eldritch Archer archetype plus a spellcaster archetype that grants a compatible focus spell (like Cleric's Fire Ray) allows for a LOT of burst damage, and you'll never waste focus points because if your DaS rolls low you just won't Eldritch Shot that turn.Investigator's also got some niche use as a strength build. This comes from the fact that athletics maneuvers are not Strikes. So you can get in someone's face and roll your DaS roll: if it succeeds, hit them. If it fails, trip/grab/etc them instead. Your DaS roll has no impact on your athletics check, so you can easily avoid bad rolls. As a bonus, you can take Mauler at some point and eventually grab Crashing Slam. This is a Strike and a Trip both rolled into one successful DaS roll. Big value, and you'll never flub it. This build I'd only recommend for level 11+ APs though, because you REALLY want to dump dex and use heavy armor and Mighty Bulwark, but it's awkward to work the Sentinel archetype into the build early.Also: int-based caster archetypes, worth considering. You've got int as a key ability score, so your spell DC actually isn't terrible, and cantrips auto-heighten. They fall into the "better than nothing" category when you've rolled low on DaS and still want to hurt somebody.
Honestly thank god for the Oracle class, it's basically the only class in the whole game that allows for options that sound like they suck but then have hidden benefits. Almost every other class in the game is just "you're super awesome and special in X way", which I get why it's like that, but still.Anyway, as always hope you guys like it, if you want to see the others you can find them here: https://x.com/DrumerThead/status/1980042499633647669
>>96792091Never heard of that vtuber but I really like the build you did for her.
>>96793271She's a 3 digit artist Frenchie who only streams in English. I've realized recently that there's a whole contingent of much more popular streamers that I could theoretically do stuff for but man I just have so little interest in doing so for whatever reason. For now I think I'm just gonna stick to more niche streamers.
2eIf a creature is immune to mental. Does that mean it is immune to the mental damage type, mental effects like frightened, or both?
>>96794605Yes. And actions with the trait in addition to conditions. So Feint, Coerce, etc.
>>96792091Do MariMari_EN next pretty please
>>96791486>This comes from the fact that athletics maneuvers are not Strikes.Any GM I know would kill me if I tried that shit on the table
playing Dawnsbury days and it sucks that Paizo is too fucking stupid to find a game studio that could make them a good Pathfinder 2E game with any sort of budget because it's THE videogame system. Holy fuck.
>>96795980nigga I played dawnsbury days and that game literally tells you it doesn't use some skills because it didn't fit into the game
>>96795921What, why, that's explicitly how it works. That's not abuse that's just intended function, otherwise they wouldn't have printed the feat to apply devise to a manuever.
>2eIf my character is a non-caster and I buy the cantrip deck for forbidding ward, does my character have the ability to sustain the spell? The sustain action doesn't have any requirement for spellcasting, so I'm guessing I can?
>>96795921Wat? Why? That's literally just how it works.
>>96796005It's simply a case of how the original 1-4 campaign was made compared to the later DLCs. They very much were baby's first attempt at making a CRPG in Unity, while the following DLCs are more elaborate and willing to experiment around with the ruleset. You get what you paid for, after all. They are very competent games at the end of the day, so there's not much harm in trying them out.
A guy in my group is playing a demolitionist and I let him have Throw Anything ability from Alchemist so he could be more effective with thrown weapons. Is that actually a problem? I feel like an alchemist that gives up extracts for fighter BaB isn't actually that powerful, so I didn't have a problem with it.
Also that guy wants to invent "afterburners" because he is playing a flying race and wants a speed burst. Effectively a potion of expeditious retreat, I would say, but it's fully alchemical. So I figured, a 50 gp price per use, except maybe having a 10% chance of exploding for 1d6 fire damage as a drawback? With the upside being it can be activated as a swift/free action as part of a move action to move further that turn? Then just have the fuel cost more money. I also said he could refine whale oil into fuel, incurring an additional cost for reagents. I know it's kind of silly, but it's alchemy and I like alchemy.Does 1e have any systems for alchemical inventions?
>>96795426I'll consider it. The problem is that since Pathfinder is a "hero building" TTRPG there's not a lot in the rules (that I know of) that does things for royalty. Which, now that I think of it, is a bit ironic considering how important royal figures are in this type of fiction.Any of y'all know of anything that might help in this regard?
So a general question for folks, whats your favourite barbarian build/instinct? Personally i have been enjoying a dragon instinct dwarf going mach 10 with sudden charge and rhino hide armour flying at anything looking at them funny with a dwarven greataxe. But i am curious on other barbarian players have done build wise
>>96799946Forgot to add for 2e
>>96799946I'm playing an Animal Instinct grappler barbarian right now and it's a blast. It's a free archetype game so I've got a lot of goodies to play with. The fact that Animal Instinct is an unarmed build means you get to steal the best stuff from the Martial Artist archetype too. There's like a half dozen Strike-style attacks that I have and I use all of them.>Round 1: Path of Iron to Stride into the middle of combat and make three full-MAP Strikes. Gigantic damage. As a bonus, you don't trigger reactions, so you can open the fight by just Striding right up to the 20' reach boss monster and punching him in the face, along with swiping at two minions on the way.>Full round: Strike, followed by any number of things depending on the situation. If you hit, you can auto-grab with Furious Focus then Dazing Blow (fighter multiclass) to steal their actions. If you miss, Follow-up Strike from Martial Artist lets you make your second attack at full-MAP, and then you can Furious Grab if THAT hits. Every round you've got up to two full-MAP Strikes that guarantee you a grab; you will very reliably grab even extreme threats.>Two-action round: If you're stuck with two actions for whatever reason, Strike into Combat Grab still gets in two Strikes and a Grab attempt.>Bonus: Predator's Pounce for Stride + Strike effectively enables the "Full round" turn even when you need to change targets. The only downside is the Flourish trait, which means you don't have your Follow-up Strike safety net.>Double-bonus: Echoing Violence (pic related)Also, unarmed means free hands, and free hands means Battle Medicine. If you've got the skill increases to spare, the Medic Archetype only eats up two archetype feats and once you hit master proficiency you're able to double-tap yourself every hour for an amount of healing that competes with an on-level two-action Heal spell. You become very hard to kill. Plus you can handle downtime healing, which is always nice.
>>96799946I'm a fan of Dhampir Bloodrager with the Svetocher feat - take Drained to cast, but ignore the downsides. Slap on Mind Smith for the two-handed reach option, Inventor Archetype to give it more traits, and you've got yourself a truly psychotic Bloodbarian that'll tear up anything and everything, one way or another.
what the fuck is this shit?
>>96802955Sounds like they wanted to clarify that dhampir were allowed in society play so long as they only drank blood from enemies or willing allies. That's probably also why they added that extra little note at the top, since the evil trait got errata'd out. Neither the PFS note nor the line of text about what constitutes "evil" blood drinking have any rules implications for a home table, except maybe to clarify for the purposes of, like, dhampir champions or something that, yes, sneaking into people's houses and drinking their blood is bad.
>>96803017It does have one rules implication, a fairly big one. In that an Evil creature would be immune from the attack.Alignment rules was a little goofy and definitely something people don't miss.
>>96802955>violation>unless the target is an active foeRape is bad, unless you rape the bad guys, then it's okay!What retard came up with this
Is it possible for a Medium sized Witch to ride their familiar as a mount at level 1 through some combination of feats without asking the GM to bend the rules?I think the answer is no, but maybe I missed some option or maybe something new was released?
Is there a Starfinder 2e equivalent to the adventurer's pack, just like something you can buy that contains the bare necessities for adventuring?
Jesus Christ 2e magic items are so ass. I will take the occasional 5e OP item over the 100s of "here's a +1 on a friday night under the full moon once per day." shit this game produces.
>>96803309It's consistent with the old alignment rules, that directly corrupts or consumes the spirit or is an unnecessarily cruel action gain the Evil tag when used in that way. This is just trying to start skub for...reasons beyond me honestly. What even is the complaint, it should had have the Good tag? The Evil tag always up, so now you can't use it on any demon? No tags? Cause that just as is, Good and Evil don't exist anymore so now you can say it is good to rape defenseless people. And Bloodrager came out after with similar powers so they obviously changed their mind on judging players hemophilia fetishes, so what is the complaint?
>>96804682Fuck 2E you cant do anything without the faggot book telling you its bad. As a true nogamer myself its woke when theres alignment, woker to have actions that use it, and wokest to take it away. Let me find my daggerheart vs the dragonlance diversity crew image and my 1E is better than 2e script here somewhere hmm...
>>96804682>Demons who rape people are bad, evil, and immoral>However, if YOU want to rape the demons who rape people, that's perfectly fine and okay
>>96803309The problem with this analogy is that a vampire needs blood to live, you don't need to rape to live. Sharks kill their prey to live, but they don't know any better. >>96803096I don't think that's how it would work. It doesn't do Evil damage.
>>96809570>you don't need to rape to liveSpeak for yourself, numbnuts.
>>96809570Immunity to a tag is protection from all the tag's effects, not just the damage. Think of Immunity to Mental. This what made the Divine list and many spells REALLY FUCKING ROUGH. Granted, there aren't many humanoid fiends to begin with, and much less that you could hit them with that wouldn't be an enemy combatant, but it is a goofy rules interaction.It is only critical hits where you still take the effects of an effect but negate the bonus damage on such.
>>968061511e is better than 2e thoughbeitAnd removing alignment is terrible, not because of good and evil but because the Law and Chaos axis within the good and evil realms was interesting
>>96809954You're right that immunity to evil confers an immunity to every effect with the evil trait, but I think you're mixing up immunity with alignment damage. Each alignment had a corresponding trait, but aside from designating that the creature with the trait was the matching alignment, the trait had no mechanical effect. Other rules elements could interact with the trait, which alignment damage did (it was baked into alignment damage that it dealt damage to things of the opposite alignment but not to things of a matching alignment), but that's it. The trait itself conferred no broad immunity. For another example, the dragon trait tags something as a dragon. It does nothing else. Other stuff can interact with the trait, like how the Dragon Grip feat gives you a bonus on certain checks against creatures with the dragon trait, but the trait itself does nothing. This is exactly how alignment damage interacted with the evil trait: the evil trait just tagged something as evil. Alignment damage interacted with those tags. Immunity, however, is an entirely separate thing.Mental damage is actually a great example too: the mindless trait explicitly grants immunity to mental effects--it's baked into the trait itself. Alignment traits weren't like that. Some creatures DID have explicit immunity to alignment-based effects (the Xotanispawn from the Age of Ashes is an example of a creature with evil immunity). You couldn't drain his blood. But you could drain an evil cleric's blood no problem. Kind of a moot point now since the trait itself is gone, but still. Nowadays that line of text about blood drinking is mostly flavor and the PFS note is obviously not applicable to house tables. Neither of them have any real mechanical impact in non-society play.
>>96810351Man Paizo never cared about Law/Chaos
Why does the PF2e Gamemastery Guide read like it was written for the most sissified baby bitch players ever?>Be prepared that NPC deaths might stir up strong emotions within the group, and be prepared to cut the session short or to fade to black to mitigate the full brunt of the event if necessary.>For example, an NPC with a background of abuse, a former or current slave, or a character with disabilities requires respectful handling. This is particularly true if you, as the GM, do not have the same life experience as the NPC in question. If you want to include these themes for an NPC, you should probably bring it up with your players beforehand and set expectations.>When the PCs are mounted, their enemies should focus most of their attacks on the PCs, not their mounts. Having foes target PCs’ mounts too often gets really annoying, so have the enemies remember who the real threat is!>It’s generally best to avoid having enemies who can breathe underwater dispel the water-breathing magic aiding PCs. And this is just within the first 30 pages.
>>96810551Game aimed at emotionally unstable teenagers I guess.
>>96810351>>96810484The Law/Chaos conflict actually having mechanical damage effects was a weird D&D Atavism, which is why the Remaster got rid of it, it just created a pointless extra line of conflict that was already represented philosophically.
>>96810712I personally do think there could have been a couple more interesting sanctifications than just Holy/Unholy. I always felt like gods like Saeranae should make their followers part elemental when they bless them, or some kind of chaotic force you could be attuned to for the Law/Chaos sphere. Yeah, having 4 different alignment powers is kinda pointless (Unholy already struggles to see use), but the concept of Sanctification and what it means to be imbued with radiant/demonic energies is a very fantastic and intriguing vibe I'm frustrated Paizo did the bare minimum with.
>>96810712Actually piss off with that BS, Law vs Chaos being just as much of a point of contention from a cosmological standpoint makes those things that much more potentially interesting and is what gave rise to, for instance, Hellknights who literally embody the role of actual Hell in order to combat the forces of the Abyss, because humanity was able to be convinced that even if Hell is Evil, at least it's also Lawful, and therefore is worthy to be allied with against the unrelenting forces of the Demons. D&D didn't go NEARLY as hard into their cosmology in those kinds of ways, especially with later versions like 5e, and removing those kinds of narrative options is exactly what made that system such a watered down nothingburger that was only good for attracting normie theater kids who didn't actually like playing the game.>>96810750And, speaking of, what you're describing is entirely the result of those theater kids making their way into the top brass. Modern Paizo wants all of their characters to be Chaotic Good hippies who just want everyone to get along, and they actively seethe at anyone who wants to play any alignment that doesn't fit within that paradigm.
>>96772464What the fuck is the point of incapacitation spells if every combat is just gonna be higher level than you, are casters just supposed to accept being a buff bot? Do they exist just to cast heroism or haste on the fighter? Oooh yes massa martial man imma debuff them and prep your big to hit dick on the boss. The fuck is paizo smoking? Did some caster rape there warrior fantasy back in 1e?
>>96799946>>96799946Idk how much value you'll find in the opinion of a guy on his first ever ttrpg campaign in a lower level setting, but I'm having fun with animal instinct. I was gunning for that wrestler archtype the second I saw it and wrote my character around the whole idea of being unarmed intentionally.In terms of gameplay, I somehow fill a utility-type role in the party. Always having hands free for battle medicine, applying cc with all the freebies wrestler gets, etc. It ends up feeling like there's so many good options for action use which seems ironic for something like Barb that gets such a big limit on concentrate actions and a straightforward plan
>>96810925Man saw an alignment argument brewing and broke out the basic-ass 6 year 2e caster skub instead. Don't know if I should be impressed or annoyed.
>>96811091Im sorry Im just irritated because I tried out the system and my GM would rather play this trash fire nerf for casters, I could care less about the angel demon war because I play wizard since 1e so if you want to hear my opinion on good and evil is just background noise to me and as a wizard main I scoff at lawful good chuds and chaotic lol so randumbs XD.
>>96811395If you actually are being serious about your experience with 2e>every combat is just gonna be higher level than youThis is a fault of your GM, every fight is NOT supposed to be higher level than you. Only very specific encounters are meant to have higher-level threats (or early APs up to Abomination Vaults cause lol paizo balance) because they are a danger to everyone not named Fighter, and even they can struggle depending on the foe. Incap spells are good at seeing some problematic minion and going "no" to them while saving the actual DPS for the real foe.>are casters just supposed to accept being a buff bot?For the most part. Casters are hard-stuck into crowd control, disruption, and support. That is just the non-negotiable part of 2e. If you want to blaster-caster, you either go Magus, Kineticist (you technically have less damage but infinite resources), or Cosmos Oracle.>Did some caster rape there warrior fantasy back in 1e?Pretty much. It's no secret that everyone has at least one bad experience with a 1e caster.Can at least agree Wizard is done dirty, especially post-Remaster. Runelord is great and War Mage is decent, but the base Wizard still struggles to be anything notable.
>>96811447Well thank you For the answer then, im gonna go knock some sense into someone if im gonna be doing 2e
>>96810925>The fuck is paizo smoking? Did some caster rape there warrior fantasy back in 1e?... Yes? Casters dicking all over the place in people's home games or in PFS has been a notorious thing with 3.5e and PF1e since before some of the people posting in this thread were born, martials have been the butt of jokes for decades now. Even as someone who enjoys the shit out of PF1e I have to acknowledge shit is just fucked over here.
>>96810925There are spells with good riders on failure like frightened or difficult terrain or whatever.Just filter out Incapacitation when you browse spells.
>>96811709Do you have idea where this comic panel comes from, part of my decrepit memory makes me think it's Elminster in one of the official D&D comics, but I'm second guessing myself.
>>96811709Why does caster kind have to get castrated just so bob the fighter doesnt feel inadequate with his dick? Surely paizo could have created a better solution
>>96812545Mostly "self-imposed limits" -fantasy.John the Mundane Fighterman is above using magic (except swords, gear, and stuff) and anime abilities are supposedly gay, so obviously in high fantasy setting he can't perform as well as classes that do use anime abilities and magic. Which I guess is fine, as long as the player understands that. But then Paizo in its infinite wisdom decided that the Mundane Fighterman must be the strongest class for whatever reason, and because previously mentioned limits, they now must bring down the abilities of other classes to make that into reality.
>>96812646Fighter's not really the strongest class or everything is wrapped around such. Bard and Champion are far more overcentralizing to team compositions and Barbarian and Rogue outdamages and have far more stuffed chasses. What makes Fighter so potent is how wide the class fantasy is compared to its compatriots and how devastating that early game can be combined with such. With its early access to Sudden Charge, Reactive Strike, and Slam Down, it just outpaces everyone's early game crowd control, debuff, movement, damage, and crit scaling. When you tack on obvious buff spells like Runic Weapon, Bless, Tailwind, and Fear, and every other class baring the previously mentioned 4 having rather middling early game, Fighter does just comes out on top for most people. Things start coalescing around 7th or so level when everyone's proficiencies and tools start to come online but Fighter's never really gets old, especially with most GMs not really wanting to counter such.More to the point, I'm willing to bet even if Fighter was some Expert Attacks-only shitter with no armor and 6HP, casters would still be fucked over to a degree. Love it or hate it, 2e is a very direct callout to the unbalanced nature of 1e and the Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard trope. It is supposed to be difficult for any one spell to swing the fight in the party's favor, whether it's an attack, buff, or save-or-suck one.. They COULD have tanked monsters' saves, gave runes for Spell Attacks and DCs, made the Shadow Signet default for every caster, gave infinite casting resources, and better proficiencies. But they had a vision of 2e being this team-based tactics wargame where everyone both needs to and can only chip in to an extent. Up to you on how well that concept is executed, if they could ever execute it, or if they even should bother and just made 1.75e....I got nothing for the magic items. Don't know who pissed in that guy's cereal to make them all suck so hard...
Who gives a shit? Fighters can't kite monsters to death. They're not viable.
What's the fastest martial without demerit mechanics to have air kineticist MC for the movement feats that still gets to use a weapon and medium armor (so no monks)?captcha: rmstr
>>96812545PFS and it just being easier to design around toned down effects. I agree that current casters kind of blow ass, but that's more down to a multitude of small factors that build up (like them just blowing intense ass to play until around level 5-7). PF2e is a game designed with "balance" first, and gamefeel second or third. They've definitely been getting better about adding better game feel to classes, just look at the Remastered Classes and the SF2e casters, but it's a very slow process.
My players decided to capture one of the bosses of a dungeon floor to take her back to a town to face trial. Issue is that they encountered her well before the rest of her crew. I know they will return to the dungeon floor. Any suggestions on how to prepare that floor for their return? I figured the crew would set up an alarm trap but beyond that I am a bit stumped.
>>96819417Are they aware their boss has been taken?
Can you use Reverse-Feint and Total Defense together?
>>96772464In the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path, can players become liches/demons/angels/etc like in the video game?
>>96825503No, the CRPG massively diverges, and PF1e mythic paths are just generic "Champion", "Archmage", etc things, rather than big thematic paths. This has its own advantages (no waiting until mythic 8 to actually get to pick a path, there are some really strong base abilities and path powers like Champion handing you moving and full attacking as a 3rd rank power) and disadvantages (this shit is NOT balanced and a lot of it sucks, so normal Pathfinder fare)You can however also become functionally a minor deity and start your own religion by with path powers, and that shit is crazy good. Very funny, I only recommend it if your group is willing to buy into the idea and you ham it up super hard.The CRPG in general makes a ton of changes, some good, some really goddamn bad like the origin of the PC mythic power, trying to make the BBEG seem sympathetic, and killing off or character assassinating a bunch of the AP's NPCs like Aravashniel, Sosiel's BF, and Horgus.
>>96825561Thank you for clearing that up for me. Are there any books for pathfinder 1e where there are options to become angels/liches (or any of the others from the game) or was that entirely a creation by owlcat studios?
>https://paizo.com/threads/rzs75ve1?Of-levels-and-power-tiersOMG these spectrum kids
>>96825984Generally speaking that kind of stuff only really happens if a creature gets a special template applied to them, and AFAIK no AP gives players templates on the level of Wrath's vidya. I won't say none of them give any templates at all, I'm sure there's at least one, but especially nothing so reality-altering that you get to have, like, Thematic Events where you snap your fingers and the light of heaven descends upon your foes while Iomedae's herald personally blows you off or anything like that. Anything on that level would purely have to fall within the realm of GM fiat and homebrewing territory.(I know, because I'm running a homebrew game with that exact premise)
>>96826191>not even 1 page and the topic changes to "casters aren't fun to play"
>>96825984You know you could just take the abilities from the game and apply them to tabletop. I don't think it would be too difficult if you are going to take the time to actually run the game.
>>96826191The only based one there is the guy pushing back against the "2e doesn't have ivory tower design" narrative. >>96826902I wonder why that might be?
Are there guns worth bothering with, or should I just say crossbow are actually guns now?
Do the SF2e pocket editions seem readable? I can't find any pictures and it seems people didn't like the PF pockets. I want a cheaper book, but one I can still read.
>>96826191>>96826902It's the same retards as in reddit, who would have guessed.It's you, isn't it?
>>96829157Not the anon who linked that forum and I don't have an account there. I was just amused how quick the shift in the discussion was.
>>96772464>1EDoes anyone happen to know where I can find an encounter table for tundra regions? I'm fairly certain I've seen a Forest (cold) one somewhere abouts, as I'm trying to run a game set in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords.
How do you flavour PF2E Monk stances in your games? The flavour text and damage type throws me off a bit but if I ignore the first one it will be like this>Crane StanceWing Chun, maybe JKD>Dragon StanceTaekwondo, Muay Thai>Monastic WeaponryEskrima and other weapon based martial arts>Montain StanceJudo, Karate, Hung Gar>Stumbling StanceJackie Chan's Drunken Master, Capoeira>Tiger, Wolf stanceThese two fuck me up because of the different damages. At least I can wave Wolf Stance as incredibly precise strikes but I can't picture Tiger Stance out of anything but using claws. Same with Cobra StanceSometimes I think of just not doing any stance in general but that 1d8 would be nice and the others that are 1d6 I associate with certain martial arts not even including that the only strikes I can use are locked to that stance.
Where can I play pick up games of PF without SJWs?My friends aren't interested in it and I don't want to GM or play solo.
>>96830428If you're that whiny about "SJWs" nobody will want to play with you anyways.
>>96830750>whinyhuh?
>>96830428Just bear with it. Smile and try to ignore if you really want to play.
>>96830428Just join any group.If it's not full of SJWs, great, you have a group.If it is, just leave, it costs you nothing and you're back where you started so it's net zero.
>>96831651It costs time and investment but I get your point, it's probably my best bet. Thanks.
>>96830183I've always pictured tiger style as nanto seiken from fotn, anything else just seems too convoluted.
>>96830183dont get worried about trying to link stances to real world martial arts styles. Just use the mechanics, fuck the descriptions. Make them what you want them to be. I made a boxer Swashbuckler with Martial Artist and used the Stumbling Stance as Dempsey Roll
2e/golarion generalis there a specific saga lands country that would fit the vibe like rashemen from d&d the most? so tribalish with lots of witches, animists and druids being the knowledge go-to's, weird dream rituals etc.
Are their any obvious things that you think the undead archetypes/ancestries are missing? Like mummies not having any way to inflict curses in people and instead being based oj unarmed attacks for some reason. I was thinking of running a homebrew game where all the players played undead and wanted to homebrew some.
>>96832605I guess I'll go down this route>I made a boxer Swashbuckler with Martial Artist and used the Stumbling Stance as Dempsey RollFucking nice
2eSo lore checks generally have an easier dc to hit. Does that apply for earning income? I want to say no but it feels strange that pretty much all of the items that an item bonus only give it for recall knowledge checks.
I'm really surprised Paizo hasn't made a invested item that give an item bonus to Esoteric Lore for Thaumaturge.
Anyone played through Strength of Thousands? I'm struggling to come up with a coherent character to go with the Druid/Wizard free archetype. Originally I was thinking Halfling ranged Fighter into Eldritch Archer before seeing fucking EA uses CHA for spell DC and not WIS. I'm debating a Dwarf Champion of Angradd instead, but I dunno whether to go Druid or Wizard for him. Basically advice on what classes/combos to avoid not to feel extremely useless.
>>96838058Nah. Recall Knowledge lowers the dc for specific lores like trying to Recall Knowledge about crocodiles with crocodile lore or animal lore instead of nature.It's not the case with Earn Income which determines DC in a different way.Try not to think of the skill, try to think of the activity. It's all determined by the activity, rolling a check is always part of an activity.
>>96838380>Eldritch ArcherWhile you *can* use EA's cha-based spellcasting, it is in no way required. The cantrip you take when you get the archetype will be Gouging Claw, which is the highest-damage cantrip that works with Eldritch Shot. That will be all you ever use Gouging Claw for, and Eldritch Shot does not care about your spellcasting modifier at all. You're free to totally ignore the EA feats after that.>Anything/WizardThe arcane list has enough buff/wall spells that don't care about your spellcasting modifier to fill up your spell list with useful options. You won't be anything flashy, but Darkvision, See the Unseen, Haste, Invisibility, Fly, etc. are all great tools to have that solve problems martials normally need to deal with with items or feats and your spellcasting DC doesn't matter for any of them.>Int-based characters+wizardCommander, Investigator, whatever. As Anything/Wizard, except these guys can actually cast spells that target bad guys. Stay away from damaging effects though; you gain access to higher-level spell ranks so far behind actual casters that your damaging effects don't do anywhere near on-level damage.>Bonus: Druid/Wizard or Wizard/DruidThis is literally what this campaign-specific free archetype rule was made for: the Halcyon Speaker archetype. Lore-wise, they're the famous hybrid spellcasters taught at the school your character is now attending. Rules-wise, the archetype lets you fill your free archetype multiclass's spell slots with "halcyon spells', which can come from the arcane or primal tradition and use your primary class's ability score, making them effectively just extra spell slots for your main class. The archetype also offers its own spell slots, which work the same way, and if you join the Cascade Bearers scholastic branch you'll eventually be able to choose halcyon spells from all four traditions, while still using your main class's modifiers. It is a very cool archetype and this is the campaign to play it in.
how do I make a CHA Psychic work... it's so hard....
>>96840664ask your GM for a clan pistol, aim at the brain of your character and use the strike action.
anyone got abomination vaults pdf?
What do we think about Starfinder 2e? Too early to tell?
2nd edition, any advice for a Bones Oracle with free archetype? Just turned level 4, went Bard for my first two but I might retrain idk
>changeling >is actually just a hag spawnGod fucking dammit, is it so hard to be a fucked up shape changer that isn't a furry?
>>96842356you can't make a mecha pilotit's dogshit
>>96840664What's wrong with Charisma Psychic?
>>96843425NTA, but I believe it is more Psychic in general that's the complaint than CHA Psychics. There's far more build paths and combo tools for CHA than there are for INT (Pistol Phenom, Sorcerer MC, Oracle MC, Marshal, Bard MC), so it probably just more the scuffed nature of Psychic being the stopgap. >>96843380https://2e.aonsrd.com/ancestries/1-astrazoanTry this then.>>96842356Still a bit too early as without real ship combat rules, there's nothing particularly unique about it beyond the flight and gun meta. But the stronger classes and weapons are very nice to have and only a few parts are pretty scuffed like Solarian and Envoy.
When 2e revisits the Evolutionist they should really bite the bullet and make it a Guyver/Kamen Rider/Power Ranger class where the player character completely transforms into a combat form with natural weapons and armor during combat.
Sup /tg/ Jumping ship to PF2E from 5E. The rules seem similar enough at first glance but is there something that I should know/remember before starting? Also played 3.5 and PF1E before 5E, so that wasn't my first rodeo.
>>96844520You'll see a lot of familiar words but it's best to forget everything you know.
>>96844520Why play pf2e when its worse than 5e?
>>96844545Is this a good or a bad thing?>>96844552Even watching paint dry is more fun than playing 5E. What exactly makes 2E bad?
>>96844520>Beyond being a six attribute d20 system and having semi-bounded accuracy, the rules aren't really that similar. There are more minutiae to everything and guidelines for GMs to design encounters of all kinds: combat, social, and exploration. This is not a retroclone as PF1e was to 3.5e, it is very much different.>Temper your expectations in regards to magic and casters. Call it spite against 1e or whatever, casters are hardcoded towards support and crowd control. If you want to blast, play Kineticist, Magus, or accept you will be paying for general caster tools over being able to specialize in JUST damage.>Find a 3rd action for your character than just swinging for the fences on a -10 MAP Strike. Much like how 5e has you hunting down a bonus action to use every turn in the early game, you want to build around a non-Attack action that pushes the party's momentum. Recall Knowledge, Bon Mot, Battle Medicine, Feints, just something else other than raw attacks and maneuvers.>Regardless of how much /pgg/ skubs out and shittalks everything about the system, no class is actively bad or dysfunctional or a millstone around the party. "Bad" in 2e is more like mediocre in 5e (Artificer, Sorcerer, non-Wildshape Druids). There's certainly flaws and the remaster definitely fixed up a lot from how classes are from the first released, but don't think any class is like 5e Ranger bad.>though the problem children are Inventor, (non-Runelord) Wizard, Magus, and Psychic at the moment...>You don't need a specific ability TO dual-wield, but there are no inherent benefits either to just having 2 weapons in hand. You do need something to hit twice over.>If you are GM'ing, read the encounter budget. It works, the game is balanced around such, don't just toss in one big PL+5 boss that half the party can't do jackshit about. Throw in adds, minions, hazards, environmental hazards; make it a FIGHT, not a Fighter-only Challenge Room.
>>96844594Usually bad.Usually people will see a word like concentration, remember what they know about it from 5e, and assume what it does without reading the rules.Just assume you know nothing.This would be a lot easier if you had never played 5e.
>>96833969Kellid
>>96844609So what we're actually doing is starting with Crown of the Kobold King. I'm not GMing, but playing as a kineticist, since it's what I always wanted the 4 Elements Monk to be. Any advice without spoiling anything?>>96844626I did read the rules. It's sustain now, right? I probably don't need to worry about it as a kineticist.
>>96842356>Too early to tell?Come back in 2 years when it has more books, right now it's aggressively just an expansion pack for PF2e. It will still be that later, but it will be better at pretending it's not when it actually has content. >>96844520PF2e is wildly different in actual play from PF1e or 5e. It is a different game with some of the same paint. I loathe to jerk the phrase but it's much more "tactical" and small number changes matter due to the over/under by 10 crit system. Your vertical progression isn't in making your PC have big number natively, it's about being able to cram more actions into your turn, deny enemy actions, and fill out the buff types on allies and debuff types on enemies. Low levels fucking suck and don't represent the game very well, but that's a universal d20 problem. I recommend either locating pdfs of the player and GM cores (the post remaster ones), or going to the Archive of Nethys, and just reading the system. AoN is much messier since it is only particularly navigable if you already know what to look for, but it's useful as an official paizo sanctioned reference site.
>>96844688Well you're going to see the concentration tag on a lot of things that don't make sense like skill actions and items.You will need to worry about it as every character.But the meaning is essentially "Your character needs to speak or read or something to do this, so if you can't speak or read or something like if you're using Rage, it doesn't work"And kineticists definitely sustain impulses too.Just assume words don't mean anything until you look them up and you should be fine. It's the single best piece of advice I can give.
>>96844706>>96844731Thanks. Big help from you guys. I'll try to keep the rules close so I can double check when needed.
>>96844688>I did read the rulescongratulations, as long as you keep doing so, you are already probably on track to understand more than 90% of people who post about the game on the internet
>>96844767Yeah, thanks. Basically I was just wondering if there was something really important to remember and got a lot of good answers. I probably need a cheat sheet for a while for all the tags and actions, but the crit skill system is pretty easy to remember. In the end it still seems to play like a normal d20 system. I mean it's more complex than 5E, but doesn't seem too complex.
>>96844688Never played/ran CKK so can't give too much advice there. And I don't really think there's much to toss in in regards to Kineticist building at such a low-level adventure, but can just say remember to put a +3 to DEX so that you get as much as you can out of light armor, if you aren't a Wood or Metal Kineticist. Despite being a CON-caster, Kinet can be a little squishy.>>96845102Yeah, it isn't that much more complex. If you played something like a 5e Cleric or Wizard, the mental stack you need to remember isn't that much more intensive, especially as a player.
Would a Guardian with FA Red Mantis Assassin work? Fast healing seems legit
>>96845176Going with Fire/Eath, so I only need 1 DEX with Armor in Earth. Taking Burning Jet for mobility at level 2, so speed isn't an issue either.Haha. I've played oWoD, RuneQuest, MERP, L5R, Ars Magica, CoC, Shadowrun, GURPS, . Praedor, Rolemaster and even Twilight 2000 as a teenager, so when people said that PF2E is really complex, I was a bit worried.
>>96845102There's a shitload of weird fiddly bits of it and a million bizarre design choices, due to just HOW MUCH SHIT the game has, but it's a mostly fine game at its core? Like, I bitch about it regularly and will continue to do so, but it is still fun to sit down and play. It's not super hard, just time consuming to parse.
>>96845236You're being baited. It's a measly 10hp per 2 player levels and you need to wait a full minute to get all the healing out of it. If you really want self-healing out of an archetype, go for exemplar (scar of the survivor, barrows edge), kineticist (water/wood) or mortal herald.
>>96844520>is there something that I should know/remember before starting?Where you come from, Fighters are worthless slaves that do nothing and wizards run the show. Here it's the opposite. Almost every class is designed first and foremost around how they can make the fighter look cooler. Either by buffing him, debuffing the enemies, having features that the fighter can steal via multiclass and use better than the base class can, or just being worthless and pathetic by comparison. There are a few classes that are allowed to have cool moments of their own that aren't just being a support bitch (notably kineticist, rogue, and barbarian) but you'll start to realise that you're in for a game that needs almost as much effort to fix as 5e does.
>>96845442>kineticistHey, that's me.
>>96845374>There's a shitload of weird fiddly bits of it and a million bizarre design choices, due to just HOW MUCH SHIT the game hasThis was the case with 3.5 and PFE1 too, to be honest.
>>96846857Yea, it's one of the things PF2e actually fully inherited, even if it expresses it in different ways. Though "inherited this just does it differently" is so many things.
Every class starts at trained, gets expert at 5, master at 9, and legendary at 13 in their primary offensive proficiency (weapons, spells, impulses etc).Every class can choose their key attribute freely.Spellcasters can use spellcasting implements, which can have potency and property runes to mirror those of martial characters.Now just to work on some full reworks for the problem classes (Monk, Inventor, Alchemist).
>>96847072>Every class starts at trained, gets expert at 5, master at 9, and legendary at 13 in their primary offensive proficiency (weapons, spells, impulses etc).Ironically, this becomes a question of what does Fighter get. It recreates the 5e issue was giving Fighter a great early game but completely tapers off into mediocrity once everyone have their tools. And basically recreating the pros and cons of bounded accuracy as a class design principle: if everyone can hit equally, running raw martials is an active detriment compared to classes with wide gish options. See why Bladesinger, Hexblade, and Paladins in general are so commonplace. As much shit we can fling around over how the game is Fighterfinder2e and all, I don't think anyone wants the class to suffer from a lack of uniqueness or strength. We like a Fighter that's top tier in one d20 game, we just don't like the WHY and HOW here.>Every class can choose their key attribute freely.Agreed. No complaints here. Unironically I think the Key Ability Score system is one of 2e's worst ideas, bar none.>Spellcasters can use spellcasting implements, which can have potency and property runes to mirror those of martial characters.So this is kind of weird? I'm just assuming you mean the potency runes than the property ones, which sure. I don't think you need as much as martials, I don't necessarily mind the idea that their to-hit-to-AC is weaker in general compared to their saves, they just need +1/2 to keep on curve (read: Kineticist, Shadow Signet). And you don't need to apply it to Spell DCs really.But property runes?? Kind of confused what's the goal here? Wands/Staves already provide minor buffs towards spells. If you meant like a generic "spellcaster weapon", just use cantrips, it's why Spellguns don't get more support. And if you mean striking runes, no, spells don't need entire extra dice worth more damage.
>>96847313>martialfag mad that casters might actually be allowed to do things other than buff and "cook and clean" for the rest of the party
>>96847313>So this is kind of weird? I'm just assuming you mean the potency runes than the property ones, which sure.I mean both.Potency runes giving +1/2/3 to spell attacks at the same level as weapon potency runes, and +1/2/3 to spell DCs at the same level as striking runes.Property runes add effects to spells. Could be an extra d6 damage on damaging spells, could be a minor debuff on a failed save (like 1 turn of clumsy/enfeebled 1, frightened 1, off-guard), could be minor buffs on allies when casting spells on them (like small status bonuses to damage, temp hp, letting them stride 10ft as a free action as the spell takes effect, etc)It allows spellcasters to actually meaningfully specialise. A blaster caster can actually keep up in damage and not be a waste of a character, but they have to lock in on it. Want to play a support mage, that now feels better since you can fine-tune what you're providing for the party a bit better. You aren't bound by paizo's rules of what a spellcaster should be (read: a cuckold), you build your character, just the same as the rest of the party can.>This would be too strong!And the rogue getting fighter proficiencies on top of their sneak attack damage and insane defenses wouldn't be? We're just scaling everything up here.
>>96847313>>96847365As for the fighter, this is a bit of a rebranding.Other martial classes pick a weapon group in the same way as fighter would. So they specialise. While we're at it, since fighter's feat selection is so generic and universally applicable already that we might as well let other martials pick from it, perhaps excluding a few specific things here and there, making them available 2 levels behind as per archetype feat rules. The fighter, now, having only "okay" defenses, no big damage boost like rogue or barbarian, and very few unique feats of its own, has to fall back on another part of its identity - the feat versatility. So the fighter is now a "freelancer" and takes that to an extreme. They get the full proficiency in all weapons, including advanced weapons, they get extra feats (a class feat every level, rather than their normal feat versatility), and they don't care about dedication restrictions. Now the fighter is a jack-of-all-trades that aggressively plunders every other class's features, while they don't have the sheer power and efficiency in those specific roles that other classes get, they have an extreme amount of fine control over how they define their characterSo to answer the question: What do fighters get? Whatever they want.
>>96847313In my experience, those special wands see limited use because the extra effects aren't that worth it to add another action to your casting. And a minor buff once per day isn't equivalent to martial runes which work every time you hit for the rest of the game.>And if you mean striking runes, no, spells don't need entire extra dice worth more damage.Not every spell, but like 90% could do with an extra dice of damage. The only well tuned spells are the ones they took from DnD. I also have to ask, do you think Sorcerous Potency is overpowered? They actually get more than a dice of damage on most spells on average. Cantrips used to have casting stat to damage, was that overpowered? I actually think every caster should get Sorcerous Potency and Sorcerer should get a buff to compensate. Even if I didn't go that far, I would still give it to the INT casters since their stat is so much worse than the others.
>>96847330It's not even me being a martialfag (I'm more a gishfag), I just understand why Paizo values casters being wide while martials specialize in targeting AC. It's the only defense they can consistently deal damage with. If casters ALSO have Fighter-tier crit rates against AC ontop of Legendary DCs, what exactly are my martials doing?I'm not knocking the "Let's Just Make 5e's Proficiency With Extra Steps" approach entirely. There's obvious value in having everyone be competent in everything and it is more specific attribute or longevity limitations that prevent Omni-men from being born. Again, 5e's approach. And I'm just assuming every creature will be adjusted around such. I just personally value Pathfinder2e being a directed and clearcut experience designed around teamplay and tactics. Classes can be good and bad at certain things and other PCs can pick that up. Paizo can miss the ball on this, but there are reasons I play this game and not 5e.>>96847365>and +1/2/3 to spell DCs at the same level as striking runes.This doesn't really equal out to what striking adds to martials, the raw accuracy consistency on saves outscales martial damage. Furthermore, this pierces the spell resistance mechanic on monsters meant to be strong against magic, so we are really struggling to make challenges.More to the point, I understand you are trying to have it so that magic items are more the specialization tools and "diagonal progression" tools, least for casters. But between the pre-existing issues with the rune system (zero people will skip the raw damage on spell boosts) and completely outscaling martial damage, we aren't really creating specialized characters through it. Once again, we are recreating the issues of 5e: its magic items/progression boosters don't create unique characters, but amplify the issues with everyone else.
>>96847313>>96847517>5e is when classes are actually numerically balanced against one another and you don't just give one class the keys to the kingdomhuhwhat
>>96847497Has the "OMEGA FEAT FIGHTER" idea ever actually worked? Ignoring the spellcasting issue here, feats lack a certain amount of "character definition" to build an entire class around. Whether they are generic like in 3.X/PF1e or class-specific here, feats are like spell cards in Magic/YGO or items in a MOBA: good options that compliment or accentuate your gameplans, and can possibly make your build exist, but doesn't explain why you are playing the base concept to begin with. In a class-based d20 fantasy game (or even like a Storyteller System or other related ideas), it just never been feats job to sell you on playing a character or class. Otherwise we start calling them Feat Taxes.And bringing back casters to the table, yeah, you can be anything...as long as it has nothing to do with magic.A sobering point is that feats can only be so much because magic is right there and more accessible.>>96847500>those special wands see limited use because the extra effects aren't that worth it to add another action to your castingYeah, not exactly defending Paizo's magic item design either... Just that the system itself to customize magic already exist in multiple variations. It just more power and practicality issues that make them less desirable. Just removing action taxes and the consumable nature (ala spellhearts) does a lot for them.>do you think Sorcerous Potency is overpowered? They actually get more than a dice of damage on most spells on average1) It is kind of a silly buff for Sorcerer (Paizo's Sorc's bias never relented), but its not too blatant or egregious, especially with its slower scaling.2) A flat status bonus per rank =/= an entire/multiple extra dice on every spell... An extra d6 is 4 more points on average.>>96847550Class chasses in 5e are fairly equal when you think about it. What separates martials and casters are spell slot levels and if they get Extra Attack, as everything else is easily patched up with feats and items.
>checking over healing consumables because one of the PCs took the Herbalist archetype>find healing vapor>lvl 4 item>heals four characters for 5 HP over the course of ten minutesWat. I assume the use case for this is the rare occasion where multiple peeps get knocked into Dying? I guess if you assume the HP ticks up at the start of the 2 minute increment instead of the end then you can immediately stabilize a few people at the cost of a mediocre consumable but that seems like a really narrow use case.
Just joined a PF1e game, how integral is money to the game? My GM wants to make gold more valuable and rare and has only been awarding silver pieces to us so far. We just hit level 2 and we collectively have 60 silver each, which I thought was too low but the GM is adamant that he can lower the prices of items to match. I'm just curious if this will fuck up the balance of the game or not.
Wasn't entirely sure until late into the process on what I was going to do for Beri's stats. Her lore video was fairly simple, and when I asked her she seemed pretty humble about it. Eventually I got a spark of inspiration and came up with this, but it did mean doing a bit of reaching.Also, to the anon who asked for Mari, I've added her to The List, and I'm working on something for it that may either be out next or the one after next.As always, anyone that wants to see the others I make can find them here: https://x.com/DrumerThead/status/1982651487856836714
>>96848420Eh, nothing would particulary change if you just swap GP to SP everywhere. Might even somewhat fix the "money weight" issue as technically speaking at some point every PC will hauling multiple times their bodyweight in gold coints which is kind of silly
>>96848574How big is The List and would you be willing to share who is on it?
2eWhy is it that things that give you a bonus to your speed only effect land speed unless it specifies another type of movement? Like Fleet makes no mention of land speed, only speed. Does it really break anything if that added to existing swim/climb/fly speed?
>>96847072Combine AC with Reflex and Perception with Will
>>96847594>Has the omega feat fighter idea ever actually worked?PF2e provides a framework that uniquely allows it to thrive here, and that's the feat-driven multiclassing. In anything 3e derived, lots of feats largely just amounts to a bunch of stuff every other class was going to get anyway, and then being stuck shrugging over a bunch of nonstacking bonuses and maybe some skill upgrades. Here, you're able to gain a ton of spell slots in all traditions, poach major class features, improve your defensive(and offensive!) proficiencies, or turn them into extra skill increases as needed.>It isn't feats' job to sell you on playing a character or class, or we call them feat taxes.Yeah, that's how PF2e works. Class feats are feat taxes built into the system.>You can be anything as long as it has nothing to do with magicWhy is magic suddenly excluded from the argument here? You have caster multiclasses, and if the basic proficiency framework is being modified around levels 5/9/13 it stands to reason multiclass caster upgrades would go down in level as well - 8 for expert, 12 for master perhaps. It wouldn't be a huge leap of logic to give fighter lower requirements for entry into these things (such as expert/master in the tradition skill rather than master/legendary) and now you're able to reasonably keep pace. Sure, you're limited in a few ways if you want to be reliant on your spellcasting proficiency, and you'll at absolute best be 2 points behind casters in terms of your accuracy... But barbarian and rogue work fine when compared to fighter in the current system, so I think they'll manage.Briefly cont. about caster numbers.
>>96847517Cont. >>96849640>Spellcasting will beat out martials if they have potency runesTo keep things brief, no. Played a 1-20 campaign where we used potency runes for spellcasters. They stayed lagging behind, even at level 19 when their to-hit was equal to that of a fighter it just felt fine, and the majority of the power came from the barbarian anyway.>Zero people will skip raw damage on spell boostsI see people use Crushing, Fearsome and Grievous runes pretty often. Sure, doing big numbers feels good, but plenty of people will choose an alternative when given the chance.
>>96848189garbage item to make players feel smart by not taking it. just like most spells.
2eI want to play a kind of tactician character who uses a meteor hammer and some star/space theme magic at the side, focusing mainly on support. I was going for investigator with random magic archetype, but stratagem requires an agile or finesse weapon, so that is a no. What other class could I use?
>>96850579>I want to play a tactician characterCommander.
>>96850579Fighter and no I'm not joking.
>>96848189You assume that everything is designed with some sort of use case or niche plan in mindThe truth is they just sort of throw the numbers around at random in a vacuum without caring what other similar options may provide.Take spiritual renewal, for instance:https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2472Fast healing 8 for 4 rounds. That's a total of 32 healing, touch range, only available to divine. Heal at the same rank instantly restores, at absolute minimum, 36 HP (50 on average). It also has a 30ft range, and is available to primal as well.There is no reason for these things to exist.
>>96847594>An extra d6 is 4 more points on average.3.5 points.Per the listed example of someone going all in on damage, adding 3d6 comes out to an average of 10.5 damage, and at absolute most it comes out to about double what sorcerous potency adds.It's only sensible that the option with an opportunity cost is stronger than the one without. It seems fine to me.
>>96850594Yeah, I was considering that, but I haven't read the new classes yet. Their tactics seem fairly easy to rework as music for an opera conductor character that would fit well with the party. Any archetypes that would go well with it and also add some space/star themed magic?
>>96850579>2e, I want to play aFighter. What you're looking for is a fighter.
2eFirst time running a pathfinder game and I want the party to battle something while on their way from the into island to the mainland. I was thinking a giant squid but I'm not sure if this is a good idea
>>96850682Cleric of Black Butterfly, Cosmic Caravan, Desna, or Inna. Maybe an occult Witch. There aren't a lot of space themed spells to work with. Be aware that any spell that requires the enemy to make a save, or requires you to make a spell attack roll, is pretty much completely off the table, but that's kind of what playing a caster is like anyway.
>>96850695Giant squid is great.What I would do is have it remain under the water and just try to grab them with tentacles, and I'd have a bunch of tentacle tokens.Means it has to roll flat checks since they're all hidden, unless you want to houserule it searching a square with touch as a sense.If they can wound it enough it leaves.If it grabs someone it repositions them over the side until it can bite them, maybe squeezes them unconscious first if they resist.
>>96847517>I just personally value Pathfinder2e being a directed and clearcut experience designed around teamplay and tactics. Classes can be good and bad at certain things and other PCs can pick that up. Paizo can miss the ball on this, but there are reasons I play this game and not 5e.Sounds like you'd be happier playing 4e. If you want different characters to actually be GOOD at different things, rather than one class that's good at everything and a bunch of other classes that are mediocre at different things and terrible at everything else, I have to wonder how you settled with PF2e for long enough to try to understand it.
>>96850680I chose a d6 as that's what most early game spells use as dice, knowing there are plenty of spells with far higher dice. If a d6 is already maxing out at double Sorcerous Potency is, an already strong feature/must-take feat (wonder how many people allow people to grab Dangerous Sorcery from Sorcerer MC nowadays?), do you really think adding a lot more damage to something like Sudden Bolt, Shocking Grasp, or Blazing Bolt would be healthy?And mind you, most people don't view the elemental damage runes as an opportunity cost. Either from a belief that most property runes are extra niceties/useless junk or that HP scaling on monsters accounted for such, there are very few players that skip out on a flaming greatsword. There's a couple of homebrew that change out how they function because they are so mandatory. I don't think spells having the same system would be a great addition...>>96849640I think the unspoken agreement here is that neither of us want to turn the game into GURPS/Spheres of Power. Yeah, feats and spells could just be the same thing and Fighter could have all the feats all the time or whatever, but I think we are diving deep into a completely different experience here. And that always been the limitation behind the OMEGA FEAT FIGHTER idea, before how much spells unbalance things. Having the uber-customizable chassis in a game where several other ideas are also meant to be customizable doesn't really make much sense. You either are asking for a classless system or to not have Fighter at all. And when you toss in magic like that, what exactly is the fantasy we are creating? We basically become The System: The Class, and I don't think that works in a tabletop sense. Yeah, everyone loves Freelancers/Onion Knights (Ivalice Chronicles not having any War of the Lions content is SO BULLSHIT), but there's a reason you don't see them in this space outside the homebrew zones.
>>96849650(cont.)>They stayed lagging behind, even at level 19 when their to-hit was equal to that of a fighter it just felt fine, and the majority of the power came from the barbarian anyway.I guess this kind of works in both our favors. I think we would both have an issue if our casters start outdamaging the BARBARIAN of all people, regardless of their states.>I see people use Crushing, Fearsome and Grievous runes pretty often.Crushing and Fearsome are used because they are below the elemental damage runes, and Grievous is one of those "FIGHTER LOVES RUBBING HIS FULL BELLY" deals (Crushing is the same but I think the Hammer/Flail + Phantom Doorknob errata really chilled a lot of people out on that hype). As stated before, the runes are so weird in terms of damage scaling, they never process as an opportunity cost because of how much an extra d6 of damage is a lot of martial builds. Putting that onus on the casters as well, even if you limit it by element like the runes are (fire rune for fire spells, etc.), just creates some uncomfortable damage racing I'm not all in for. Even if this is all just a theoretical fake game brainstorm, and I do prefer avoiding any raw number comparisons for the sake of the argument (since we can legit take an axe to a lot of lategame HP numbers, even if Monster Core 1 & 2 have been kinder to the numbers compared to the Bestiaries).>>96850750I missed out on 4e until way after the fact, my first ever TTRPG I ever bought was Pathfinder1e (still have my Core Rulebook), and 2e is fun for me as a Semi-Forever GM. This game (and community on all fronts) gives me a lot of pain, but the experiences I have and the ideals it formed in me are second to none.
>>96850903>You are either asking for a classless system or to not have Fighter at all.There are already several flavours of "the fighterman" that aren't fighter in 2e. Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger, Swashbuckler, Guardian, Gunslinger, Monk, and arguably Thaumaturge and Exemplar. So, you're right, we could just not have fighter at all. We can kill it off and leave its corpse rotting in the corner, stinking up my games room. Once its needless overpowered bullshit is sent to die like it deserves, what purpose does it have to exist in a system with so many thematically redundant classes circling it like vultures?Freelancer is an attempt to salvage what's left of it into something. Could always not do that, but I like the concept of a freelancer, and trying to do something with what's left sounds better to me than burying it.
>>96850988>2e is fun for me as a GM.That explains a lot. PF2e is to GMs what 5e is to players - Lots of fun for one side of things, absolute untold misery and suffering on par with outlawed methods of torture for the other side.You should give 4e a try. There are still communities out there for it.
I unironically think people massively overrate Fighter in 2e, after playing the system for a while and seeing beyond the veil of "being above level 3". It's still strong as fuck and one of Paizo's dpecial boys (next to Rogue), but I do not think it is nearly as universally dominant, in as nearly as toxic a fashion, as this thread treats it-especially after the three flickmace nerfs.
>>96851155Sounds much more like you have shit players, honestly.
>>96850682Because Commander is Int based, your best bet is inherently Wizard or Witch. You'll probably just have to reflavor shit appropriately.
>>96851221Sounds like standard paizotard deflection to me. pf2e is only ever fun for the players in spite of the system itself - The actions the GM takes to unfuck it so that the players can enjoy the game. I've seen this as both a player and a GM, across multiple groups, it all goes the same way - "This is a mess", "This is needlessly convoluted for no benefit", "I feel like this rule was made out of spite", "I'd much rather be playing anything else". It was only after I went out of my way to break the system open, using my own experiences as a player to define how exactly I would go about doing so, that those opinions changed. Pf2e is absurdly player-hostile for no good reason. Perhaps your bar for a "good player" is a spineless masochist that will take whatever misery the GM has in store for them, but personally I prefer to have fun in my leisure time.
>>96851155I personally think PF2e, for all its "No Fun Allowed" ideas baked into it, strikes a stronger balance between GM and Player fun than you give it credit. But even if it is an either-or deal, I think the genre is better suited when it caters more towards the GM than the Players. Call me biased, but I think most players are happy playing any game, as long as it functions and the GM is a good sport. They can bitch and moan, but the style of game calls for a host and they are the guests at the table. So when a game in this space struggles to be ran by GMs, you just don't have the host that can bring everyone together.These games are collaborative storytelling experiences at the end of the day. If you lack the tools, you can't collaborate, tell a story, or have a positive experience.>>96851192I think it is really more one or two resident thread schizos that try to TORtanic the game whenever any advice is given. Fighters never quite been as dominant as we've always talked about, it just more that they got so much stuff up to Treasure Vault and only now just started to be reigned in and other classes being propped up, they are quite frustrating to think about.As long as PF2e can be said to be a failure of the game design, they will bring up the same six complaints all the time, even if realistically it's a problem with all Paizo products or not a problem at all.
>>96851357>Pf2e is absurdly player-hostile for no good reason.They had a perfectly reasonable justification, and that is that their diehard fanbase consisted of turbo autistic 3.5e optimization forum creatures that made running PF1e (and especially Pathfinder Society) a nightmare. Their nuclear solution may be kind of shitty, but we cannot pretend it wasn't done without a completely understandable reason. PF1e requires 10x as much effort in fixes for all its awful, almost equally spiteful rules (everything about armor, combat maneuvers, every combat style besides 2H power attacking or longbow archer), and needs everyone at a table to be extremely chill to make it bearable, and that is why it's absolute kusoge. I say that as someone who plays it regularly and still thinks fondly of it.
>>96851588>PF1e requires 10x as much effort in fixesOh, I agree there. I think 3e and everything it spawned was a complete mistake.
guess the classbonus if you can guess the AP there's a couple hints
>>96850735thanks anon! I'll do that when we get to it.
>>96851192Combination of the other Anon's point about flamebait posters and the more broad phenomena you see in any general that lives long enough.>Step 1: The game has a legitimately powerful option, and this becomes conventional wisdom>Step 2: Discussion around the game reinforces the conventional wisdom over and over again because these threads are up 24/7>Step 3: The conventional wisdom reaches escape velocity. It's no longer proportionate to the actual game mechanics but reinforced socially. This is when you see people getting kicked from co-op games for not running meta builds or angry posts from people about players who killed them with "meta weapons" and stuff like that. The powerful option has become a kind of boogeyman in the general.Take a look at any of the old Tribes: Ascend threads to see how people talked about hitscan weapons like they were instant wins, or Titanfall 2 threads to see Tone talked about the same way to get an idea of what I'm talking about. Nobody really denied those options were strong, but this kind of general has a disposition that tends towards hysteria.
>>96851808Shit comes in waves and I should be used to it, but I still feel like I have to push back sometimes even if it's probably pointless. There's definitely things I think deserve the hate (fuck og flickmace with a rusty shovel) but the eyerolling handwringing over some stuff is as exhausting as the people uncritically glazing the system.
>>96851716Bard
>>96848826Yes, so in totality I have a number of streamers that are on The List but for one reason or another stay low on the priority list, these are the following:> Alhilde (requested by fans), Dee the Sphinx, Giwi, Rin Penrose, and Layna LazarStreamers that are higher priority on The List are going to be Matarakan, Bodega the Rat, and I have a special thing planned for Ironmouse. Right now thanks to me thinking more about it, Mari is also in this section, not gonna lie I was debating making her a native to the Plane of Dreams based on how her lore video went, but I really couldn't find a whole lot in PF1 on what exactly such a thing would entail, so I might just drop that aspect of her build.
>>96850643I do think Fast Healing is underrated. If you just cast Heal, the enemies will see that your ally is conscious again and potentially beat his ass while he's prone. Fast Healing lets them theoretically stay safe until their turn.That said, Witch gets Life Boost as a focus spell that is literally this spell, but ranged, one action, and available at 2 with appropriate scaling. I assume Spiritual Renewal is supposed to be a thematic spell for an AP, but they could have just made it a creature ability and saved themselves the page space. No player wants this garbage.
2eWhy are all versatile heritages basically shitty tax feats? Why don't they give you a free lineage feat or something instead of a shitty low-light vision that sometimes doesn't even fit with the heritage?
>>96856494I think the way they handled the Lineage system is an odd attempt at compression and compartmentalization. Since VHs can go on ANYTHING barring a few restrictions, they didn't want to run into awkward rule conflicts or break the power level of heritages. So they pushed subraces for your subrace into a feat tax, where there could be more potential power, while saving both page space and the player's mental stack.
>>96852029I think the core problem is the number of people approaching it from a "Playing online or in PFS with complete strangers" viewpoint which leads to treating everything like queueing for a dungeon in WoW. RPGs should be played with friends and have more flexibility.
>>96856703Can't blame people for approaching the game in that manner when the system itself does so much to reinforce that style of play and so much to disincentivise changing it. It's valid to judge the system on such merits.Plus all online discussion assumes that as the default and even just mentioning that you don't mind homebrewing stuff or changing rules around here and there will get paizotards screeching in your ear about how you're pure evil for defiling paizo's sacred vision of how the game must be played.
>>96853684>I do think Fast Healing is underrated. If you just cast Heal, the enemies will see that your ally is conscious again and potentially beat his ass while he's prone. Fast Healing lets them theoretically stay safe until their turn.I disagree, I think FH actually makes you more vulnerable.A large burst of healing means there's more for the enemy to get through while you're wounded before they can knock you down again.With FH, you're getting less than a single hit's worth of HP, meaning you'll be yoyoing until you hit your maximum dying value and oop, you're rolling a new character all because someone wanted to use a "safe" healing option on you.
>>96842356Regardless of the content SF2e got (because frankly we're still talking about the same system as PF2e really), it has failed to solve one particular problem: ranged combat is deathly boring. PF is a melee-focused system and a lot of its mechanics are made with the assumption you're going to end up point-blank to your opponent (flanking, AoOs, Athletics actions, higher damage for melee - just a few examples). Consequently for ranged characters there's not much to do - have fun doing your Strike x3 and Aid once in a while if your GM is willing to throw you a bone. SF 2e does nothing to alleviate this despite supposedly going all in on the "ranged meta", the developers seem to think everyone should be happy just plinking away with Strikes or their bespoke rotations then popping back into cover, because that's the gameplay they offer us. You'd think cover would play a bigger role, but operative and soldier just get to ignore it, so there's not much incentive to move around, leading to even more boring turret play. So for that I think SF2e is bad. It can maybe get alleviated by a good bestiary (just offering a good mix of zone of control could do wonders), but the core issue would remain.
2EWhat's /tg/s take on Hungerseed? Does it work well enough for Earth/Fire Kineticist with the Cultivator archetype? I know it's probably not the most optimal build, but I think the Kishin Rage feat would give a lot of flavor for that kind of character.
>>96859954I don't think there are particular synergies between them. Nothing against them, but not a lot for them.Hungerseeds are a bit scuffed thanks to their somewhat weak early game boons, taking until 9 to unlock perma-large (which still takes a stance mind you) while other large ancestries get the reach increase for weapons at 5. Kishin Rage is oddly self-destructive for being a once-per-day, Level 17 feat. And they just lack so many options thanks to being stuck in an LO book that was big on quantity-over-quality, imo.They aren't a particularly great VH, all things considering.
>>96851716Sorshen clone in Kingmaker.
>1e>Finish campaign.>DM asks me to stay behind for a talk.>"...Is it about the stunt I pulled?">"No, that was pretty funny and you warned at the start of the book you'd try it.">"So what did you want?">Wants to replay Skull and Shackles again.>Wants to play the face this time, doesn't want to double-time NPC dialogue and feel like he's 'Sailor Mooning it'.>What does that even mean.>Asks me to DM Skull and Shackles.>Something physically shifts inside of me.>Remember the last few times DMing for the old group.>Talk for a good hour, come up with ideas.>Start with the second book, PCs will be max level, but spell levels are still story-restricted.>Some other stuff, but the level sounds actually kinda fun.>Demand another campaign's worth of time to get ready.>Agree to it in the end, go home.>Freak the fuck out.>Download the PDFs, don't sleep until four in the morning.I am trying not to freak out, how fucked am I.What do I do.Please help me.
>>96775128Around 72 or 73
>>96862538What's fueling the decision to skip to Book 2? S&S is already a pretty short AP compared to most of the others, and you're planning to cut that down even further?
>>96862781Book One is basically a book-long tutorial on sailing and raiding.We're just going to rehash it and hash out any Book One loot at the start of Session Zero like that interview at the start of Mass Effect 2.
>>96862781First book is gigadogshit.
>>96825503I ran one with 2e but its not completely like the crpg. Did a level 20 one shot with a celestial and archfiend working together to stop an outer god incursion into the universe and they shredded everything i made, granted they were dual classed and had free archetype but they were preety ressilient and it was pure power fantasy
>>96829090They are very strong with, A gunslinger used some kind of magical ammo bs that i didnt understand but he was outdamaging the fighters crits
So if different planets exist around the universe and golarion is one of them. Could another planet have the same gods? But how would this work with the star stone trio. Are they just not known in that planet or somehow there divine influence spread there, if so does that make golarion the most important planet in the universe?
>>96863980It has not been explained particulary well, but deities supposedly have some sort of power rankings with Pharasma at the top (with some outer gods and Rovagug). Starstone deities are supposedly at the near bottom of the ladder, barely above demigods. So, by that interpretion less powerful deities are less universal, and have single planet or perhaps even just a country size influence and following. Of course starstone is not the only way to become a deity, Irori being good example of just a guy who was badass enough to become deity. But anyway, Golarion is indeed pretty much the most important planet of the universe, though that has more to do with it being prison of Rovagug rather than due Starstone producing minor deities.
>>96864056I mean, aside from the core deities there's currently 438 deity entries just for Golarion.
>>96862781Well S&S book 1 is fucking dogshitBut honestly all of S&S is dogshit as written and even as a springboard only the Regatta is kinda interestingI would find another AP and reskin it to pirate shit
>>96864087How many deities is/has been there on Earth? Technically speaking Earth is part of Paizo universe, so that number is even a bit small all things considered
2eI'm a bard and I want a bear mascot mostly for RP reasons. What's the easiest way to get one without having to waste 3 feats on Beastmaster before I can pick up Medic?
>>96864282Just take the pet feat
>>96864437I don't want your Tiny ass bear
>>96864452Then ask your GM please with a blowie on top to have it as a large size pet
>>96864452From what im reading you can ask your DM to modify it a bit
>>96864087So how does that even work in the planes? Are there like millions of gods there and the planes just stretch around to accomadate each god? Does that mean if a wizard decided to be a tourist in heaven he would see a god not even in golarion just chilling?
>>96772983>no other ways to reliably cheese through fights?debilitating shot and pin to the spot still exist, and doorknob even nerfed is still auto take for many characters since it's only a per target lockout >dude slow lmaothe game has been out for literally more than half a decade and you can still count the number of worthwhile spells on your fingers which aren't even available to every caster
>>96810712Law vs Chaos has always been the most interesting alignment conflict compared to cosmic Good vs Evil, because it's the one shamelessly plagiarized from Michael Moorcock. Law vs Chaos is why the Blood War exists, despite both being Evil the hells and abyss despise one another just as much if not more than they do actual celestials. It's why Lawful Good deities like Iomedae trust Asmodeus with the key to Rovagug's prison, because he's an even bigger LAWtist than he is a moustache twirling villain. LG, LN, and LE gods being collectively worshipped in Law focused pantheons like the Godclaw is possible because the Law vs Chaos axis is just as important to a deity's portfolio as Good vs Evil
>>96864871Running into people and attacking them is not what cheesing means.
>>96865448if your definition of cheesing something in pf2e excludes "running at thing and hitting it" at any point during the cheese then there's literally no way to do sono spells allow you to circumvent the game rules in this manner and the system is explicitly written for this to be the casethe closest you'll get is completely debilitating the enemy so you can safely and effortlessly kill them, but martials are better at that than casters are and don't have to be made of paper in order to do so.
>>96865448>>96866401>b-but this incap spell!good job "cheesing" an enemy that a martial can kill in one hit more consistently than you can land that spell i guess?
>>96861313>which still takes a stance mind youCan't I just use Greater Transformation before a fight and use a stance when the fight starts? Also, isn't Oni Rampage quite powerful?
>>96866577Its not the worst but kineticist's action econ isnt so bad you're dying to get a form of haste that doesnt apply to impulse or blasts, if you were using playtest kin who had blasts that scaled off unarmed attack it'd be good.
>>96866401>>96866411Sounds like you've had an entire conversation in your head and expect me to keep up.
>>96866577Yeah, you can still take a stance, didn't meant it so literally, so much as the action tax is a bit frustrating (albeit more freeing than Giant Instinct Barbarian).Oni Rampage is ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. At that point, you might as well just take Trick Magic Item and grab a Wand of Haste, if your allies is so against it. Hell, your casters have 7th Rank slots, Haste is multitarget at that point! All with the benefits of not being at half-HP!!They really skimped out on Hungerseed. It really is just more flavor. Might want to nudge your GM on letting you take some Half-Orc feats to fill in the gaps, cause it really is that empty on good features. It really is skimming by on the fact that most ancestry feats and standard heritage options aren't really character-defining in the first place, so it really isn't that hurtful to take.>>96866752I think the only thing I particularly miss from that design was Weapon Infusion letting you make any weapon, instead of just slapping traits on your blasts. Otherwise, I see why they changed it, even at the expense of Impulses synergy with other options.
Any word if Paizo plans to go back and give more feats for ancestries that are starved for them?
>>96813141They literally nerfed all the crit specializations in hte game into the ground just because fighter was stunlocking/pronelocking shit with reach attacks.
>>96856494You get free adopted ancestry by going versatile heritage.
>>96851192Fighter demands support and never provides it. This is hierarchical class design and is inherently annoying to other players regardless of fighter's actual power level (which is extremely high by design). Also fighter with full reactive strike utilization, which GMs often just give fighters for free by making the encounter foes stupid, vastly outdamages any other character in the early levels.
>>96859835I was thinking about this for a while now and I'm kind of questioning how do you make it more fun?It's not like Starfinder2e doesn't try. We got grenades that can bounce off walls, autofire weapons, suppression, ranged AoO, Called Shot mechanics, parkour, run n' gun. Sure, scattered about, but that's just the nature of a class-based game. When combined with environmental effects like zero gravity and SPELLS, you should be able to have interesting ranged encounters. Hell, Gunslinger is pretty scuffed in both 1e and 2e (moreso 1e), but I've never seen anyone not have fun with the class. I can understand the issue and the fairly sparse content of SF2e not quite being enough to make it interesting, but I think there are a lot more to it than you are giving it credit.I think in regards to your point, you should probably have it so that cover deteriorate and take damage, if you want to avoid the Gears of War-level wallhugging.
>>96868491Better map design would go a long way, but Paizo is in love of square boxes and individual encounters, so that is not happenining
Can someone explain some things about pf2 Witch and familiars to me?1.>Your familiar gains two additional familiar abilities: one of these is a unique ability based on your patron and is always selected, and the other is an additional familiar ability that can be selected daily as normal.Does your familiar have two 'normal' abilities and two extra abilities (one from the patron and one regular; 2+1+1) or do you need to replace one of the two regular ability slots with a permanent patron ability?2. Can the familiar sit on your shoulder all the time? I assume so, since it's tiny, but do the Ride rules apply to it? Does that mean I need to spend one action to stop it falling off (every round I have only 2 actions), and it would only get one action when I command it? Only he is penalized? Does it matter if the witch is small or medium?Or is it just something GMs wave off?
>>96868491>grenades that can bounce off wallsGrenades are prohibitively expensive, but sure, once in a while>autofire weaponsThe problem with those is that they're kind of terrible. Your basic assault rifle is a repeating hand crossbow equivalent, martial MGs only gain one die increase. Two actions for a dinky AoE is a bad trade most of the time.>suppression, ranged AoO, Called Shot mechanicsThose are all class-based. I don't have a problem with the latter two being corralled into operative's purview (called shots could've spiced it up, but I know what it ends up being in practice), but suppression being tied to soldier was a mistake.>Gunslinger is pretty scuffed in both 1e and 2e (moreso 1e), but I've never seen anyone not have fun with the classFunny, because my beef comes from the experience of playing a gun character. If anything, Gunslinger kind of exemplifies the problem by falling into a rigid rotation.>you should probably have it so that cover deteriorate and take damage, if you want to avoid the Gears of War-level wallhugging.The problem isn't exactly hugging cover as it's relatively low impact of it. Like I said, operative and soldier just get to ignore anything less than greater cover and enemies can have their stuff (either AoE or aim), same goes for spells.>how do you make it more fun?I'd take a good look at what other systems simulating modern-ish combat are doing. Suppression as a zone rather than a status, time-delayed explosives, more emphasis on cover and its destructibility would be a start. For SF specifically they should've also thought how their base system doesn't apply much to the longer ranges. Part of it could be fixed by skill feats loosening up the range requirements, part - by equipment (there's exactly one gun letting you use Athletics at range and it's Advanced so you can't actually use it out of the core) and the rest would lie on class design's shoulders, giving you better options that are not just your DPR rotation.
>>968706531. You have 3 abilities you can select each day. Really it's only 2 because Independent is borderline must take. The other ability is given to you, so your familiar has 4 total. 2. The ride rules would apply, but you can ask your GM to wave it. If you're running Independent it doesn't really matter, just have it share your space every turn by moving. It shouldn't actually need to do much since the patron given ability is activated when you use a Hex.
2eCommander's question. Am I missing something or is the only benefit you get from affixing your banner to your companion just 10 feet increase in your aura? You miss out on all the cool brandish tactics just for 10 feet and don't even get anything cool like Plant Banner? That doesn't seem worth it at all
>>96870732thanks lad
Did I miss anything with Battle Harbinger?https://scribe.pf2.tools/v/M89l6Vvf
>>96872785Did the same mistake as Paizo of not giving it a 7th-level feature or Weapon Specialization damage bonuses. It's still strictly worse than other half-casters.
Question, any of you happen to have the Operation Orias PDF? asking for a friendIt's being played right now by a bunch of Warframe voiceactors and community blokes
>>96872820Huh, so I did. How does +WIS to strike damage sound?
From Necromancer's page on Demiplane>Thrall Enhancement Your thralls are well constructed and nimble. Whenever one or more of your thralls would take damage from an effect requiring a Reflex save, you can attempt a DC 15 flat check. If you succeed, you choose one thrall to take no damage, and on a critical success none of the thralls take the damage.The only way to critically succeed at a DC15 Flat Check is to roll a natural 20, right?
>>96874824Correct. There's no way to mod it since it's flat, so you have to roll a natty 20
Is Fascinating Performance as garbage as it looks like, or am I missing something?https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5147&NoRedirect=1
>>96878282Yeah it's not for combat it's for stealing from shopkeepers or taking the prison guard's keys.
>>96878282Only decent if you're a swashbuckler battledancer
is magus the most cucked class in pf2? asking for a friend
>>96878684It's definitely down there, but nothing can take the crown from inventor
>>96878697It (somehow) might not be the worst class, but Spellstrike setting off Reactive Strike might be the most directly spiteful rule in the game. Just straight up, "Fuck you for even trying to use your underwhelming melee attack in melee."
>>96878684No, but it's definitely one of the ones that makes me the most angry. I do not think it is a well designed class.
>>96879119No, you don't understand, it's a unique playstyle (LET'S GO GAMBLING) compared to other classes and therefore good.
>>96879205My problem is that you can easily preserve the gambling without making literally every other part of it complete dogshit, but gambling addicts see that you want to change it and instantly get defensive
>>96879247like what? proficiencies? spell slots? some specialized haste?
>>96878684Magus is annoying to play but the ranged variant is extremely powerful.
>>96879205Thing is... it's actually kinda just shit at gambling as well.The max damage of a giant barbarian vicious swinging is only about 5~10% lower than that of a magus spellstriking with a rank 10 cantrip, but they spend two actions doing this instead of three. So the overall damage efficiency is worse.You're putting everything you have into gambling, all for a worse result.Utterly cucked.
>>96879386Quick correction. I forgot about brutal critical. Barbarians actually have a higher damage cap and do so with one less action.We're beyond cuck chair levels.
>>96879399grim...meanwhile paizo is busy shitting half a dozen new classes
>>96879302Spellstrike doesn't need to recharge (Self explanatory, already been mentioned ITT that they wouldn't even be the most action efficient nukers with this change)Spells with no effects on the enemy other than damage use the result of the attack roll to determine their effect on a spellstrike (Adds a few more reliable options to spellstrike like vampiric feast and sudden bolt, without subjecting them to functional misfortune)Keeps spell slots of lower ranks instead of just converting them to higher rank slots as you level (So you can use higher rank slots for damage and lower rank ones for buffing, because fuck how limited studious spells are)Spellstrike doesn't trigger reactions to concentrate/manipulate effects (could still trigger reactions to attacks or damage, but means you don't get completely fucked by reactive strike)
>>96879302Arcane Cascade could just be a free action passive feature instead of a stance given the best subclass is already one that actively ignores it anyway, its focus spells are underwhelming because they have to also be your spellstrike recharge mechanic, spellstrike itself isn't very strong unless you use a max level slot (but those are better served as buffs) but makes stealing a focus spell off a different class absurd, its feats are garbage because it can POTENTIALLY do tons of damage with spellstrike. It's insane it doesn't get a normal class DC. It's also still really bad about incentivizing you to actually make Int your second highest score because most Int based shit feels like unrewarding dogshit to use and spells genuinely are not enough on their own given the optics on them for actual fullcasters is bad, let alone a caster with even less slots and worse DCs.
Magus and Wizard should both be all-tradition spellcasters instead of only arcane
How busted of an advanced weapon would this be to let someone have?>Sword d6 P (reach, two-handed d10, Versatile S)Alternatively How busted would it be for a feat to give Justice Champion's Armaments the option to add a trait to their weapon (either in addition, or instead of a rune)?
>>96880485Guisarme is 2h reach trip d10 slashing, your weapon is 2h reach d10 piercing/slashing and 1h d6. That's a martial weapon, imo.
>>96879943Wizard doesn't need to be all spellcasters, we have Witch and Witchwarper. You don't need yet another INT-caster with multiple spell list options. At most, a Class Archetype.Magus, probably, if only because Eldritch Scion have been breathing behind it awkwardly and they been very skittish about making gish classes for other traditions. It would be more quality of life than anything.>>96879386That calc is a little skewed in practical play because of the Clumsy 1. You deal more damage, but you also taking more. At most, you are on the same level of squishiness as Magus, but no real way to patch it up without some tradeoff (Losing Quick-Tempered if you go Armor Training until Level 8 for Invulnerable Rager, taking up your Level 8 feat, and you will always be down on AC).I think doing more than the hardest hitting Barbarian with a cantrip and no other feats/empowerments is fine, actually. Not that I disagree with the sentiment, there's some clear piloting issues with the LETS GO GAMBLING!! idea that do need fixing, but your comparison is very white room-ish. And you are comparing it with probably the best DPS class in the game, which Magus was never going to really out-compete thanks to its "Jack-of-All-Trades" issue.
>>96881730>Wizard doesn't need to be all spellcasters, we have WitchAnon, you misunderstand. I'm not saying they should get to choose. I'm saying they should have access to all of them at once.
>>96881730>I think doing more than the hardest hitting Barbarian with a cantrip and no other feats/empowerments is fine, actually.Anon, you missed the second post. They do less. This also assumes that they use vicious swing to gamblemaxx instead of just making two swings which has a better average.>magus is a jack of all tradesIn a game that unfailingly demands specialisation. Fighters with spellcaster archetypes are 50x better magi than magi are. Spellstrike is a fucking meme.
>>96881753I guess technically Witch have a mini-version of that idea thanks to how Lessons work and Granted Spells on Spont. Casters are like that, but...ehhh...Yeah, the Ultimate Mystic Theurge Wizard is funky, but I don't think it adds much mechanical depth as it takes away from the character of Wizard and the absolute nightmare of mental stack, having to go through all the spells. I rather just have stronger ways of amping arcane spells like War Mage's push on all AOE spells than making them hungry for every scroll on earth.>>96881769I caught the second post and I still stand my ground. You are comparing consistent options at max level when realistically a Magus would have SOME more magic to spare for non-cantrip options. A vanilla Magus with no feats and using a cantrip to spellstrike with is losing in damage against the hardest hitting Barb subclass with at least 2 feats invested by about 15%.I argue that is not statically significant enough of an example, if we are assuming you are being genuine.>In a game that unfailingly demands specialisationEven if the game didn't, Magus is a design that always pays for something trying to do everything. It's never been Bard, the Eldritch Knight idea always been so wide, it stretches itself too thin. Hell, most gish concepts in general will always be this way, especially in systems that just CoDZilla itself with little regard because the concept of divine/primal restrictions apparently meant to stop such (it doesn't).Again, I do agree Spellstrike and Arcane Cascade needs some degree of drastic change. But in a war against probably one of the best classes that never stopped eating good from the start vs. a class that was scuffed to begin with that arguably got NERFED in some errata, Magus is still doing okay. It needs its remastering yesterday, but the numbers are still functioning fine.
>>96881209It's an Asp Coil (martial weapon) with the extra trait of Two-Hand d10, so I think that's probably too much for just a martial weapon imo
>>96879943magus should at least be able to pick any tradition
>>96772464Any news about 3e?
>>96810551>>When the PCs are mounted, their enemies should focus most of their attacks on the PCs, not their mounts. Having foes target PCs’ mounts too often gets really annoying, so have the enemies remember who the real threat is!>>It’s generally best to avoid having enemies who can breathe underwater dispel the water-breathing magic aiding PCs.Both are very good advices if you actually run games.It's easy as fuck to annoy players with almost anything anyway, if you know how game mechanics work
>>96883743Again, I kind of get that want. Eldritch Scion is probably the most popular archetype in 1e behind Blackblade Magus (despite both being kinda mid), the focus on attack rolls and STR/DEX means you can treat INT as a dumpstat, and they been really skittish about making more gish classes/archetypes. I personally think Arcane is already the best list for the goals of Magus, I rather it not be the only gish option for everyone, and Magus have some distinct flavor issues with how much Spellstrike and Arcane Cascade is eating, messing with it more sounds problematic.Related note: After Bloodrager, I'm pretty nervous about a possible Eldritch Scion or Eldritch Trickster archetype. Not that Bloodrager was bad, but the way they handled the tradition and Sorc options in it was so backhanded despite being a class archetype. I really don't know why they went all vampire dude with them over the Barbarian + Sorcerer idea, down to dropping the ability to take a bloodline. Hell, they could have even go all in by saying it is a ritual to consume or steal the bloodline magic of a sorcerer or dragon if you wanted to compromise on such. Or make it so that you can avoid the dedication lock for Sorcerer MC. That one I DON'T understand why they got skittish about being able to pick-a-list, especially when they make the options only Arcane and DIVINE of all things!!
>>96885033>When the PCs are mounted, their enemies should focus most of their attacks on the PCs, not their mounts. Having foes target PCs’ mounts too often gets really annoying, so have the enemies remember who the real threat is!>PCs ride into the enemy camp mounted>Enemies: Sweet, we get new mounts after we kill these idiots
>>96885033I'd rather go with common sense than hard ruling with those, even if it could frustrate the players.Meaning that the mount will get shot if the PC is doing hit-and-run shit with it, and the underwater enemies will often try to dispel water-breathing if they were assuming to run into hostile land-dwellers underwater.
>>96885003We'll be getting 6e Revision 2 before we even hear about 3e.
>>96885267it is important to remember these come out the GMG/GM Core, these are supposed to be somewhat general tips and guidelines to running a smooth session. If you feel like doing a Fuck You to the players would make for a more interesting outcome and your players can handle such, go for it. Even the guidelines are speaking in passive form, they understand that (You) are the master of your players' destinies.This is all just to make sure you don't have a schizo crash out at the table and shit in your house for daring to bring a Critical Fumble Deck.
>believes that killing 10 innocents to get 1 guilty person is worth it>always pushes to have people sentenced to death by burning, no matter the crime or evidence (like the crazy beggar who believed himself to be an angel, the courts eventually settled on lashing him for blasphemy, but Hulrun went ahead and burned him at the stake anyway)>oppresses the worshippers of non-Iomadae deities, including the Good aligned ones>loves listending to the screams of burning people>has burned many children alive>shows zero remorse or self-reflection when proof comes out that the people he sentenced to death were innocent>>"Good, evil, what's the difference? All forces of chaos are the same. Demons, azatas, Nocticula or Desna and Sarenrae, it all makes no difference to me. All they think about is destroying and tearing down..."How is this guy a Lawful Good inquisitor of Iomadae, again? Like my paladin so much as makes a joke and he loses his LG status.
>>96885834Since when is Iomadae is against her paladins slitting throats of enemies who surrundered, as long as there a chance that they'll keep commiting evil?
>>96885834>How is this guy a Lawful Good inquisitor of Iomadae, again?Because the writers of WotR are dangerously fucking retarded and should be barred from working in the industry.
Anyone know a good 1-4 one shot I can run on a vtt for pf2e? I got a friend who want's to join and I'm looking through pdfs to find a good one. Preferably something more combat focused
>>96888239I guess you could run burnt offerings, it's not a oneshot but a first module
>Sandbox campaign>Party tells me at the end of the last session they're going to zig>I prep the zig>Start of this week's game, they decide to zagFuck my disgusting chungus life.
>>96885834Int 10 god, pls understand.
>>96885267I'd say the good general rules to have would just not instantly kill the riding horses in an opening volley and give the players a chance to dismount before heading into combat since basic Riding Horses have an AC of 16 and that's never going up as the party levels. Animal Companions are of course fair game, as they do level up.As for the Underwater Breathing, it's a dick move if none of the spellcasters the party had previously fought had dispelled their buffs and they had no inkling there were underwater humanoids down there.
>>96888901Players don't know what they want. My players said they wanted a sandbox, so I gave them one. A map with 1 major city, a few villages, a few of the big named people in the area they might want to cozy up to or supplant, and a few notorious locations (that's where the dragon lives, that's the abandoned fort overrun by undead, that's the necromancer's tower, that's the goblinlands, etc). They complained there was no direction and didn't know where to go or what to do.
>>96889393sandbox and lack of direction and narrative are different things
>>96885834>Good, evil, what's the difference? All forces of chaos are the same. Demons, azatas, Nocticula or Desna and Sarenrae, it all makes no difference to me. All they think about is destroying and tearing down..."So basedAn azata is no better than a devil to a LG character, although i guess demons are technically worse because diagonal
>>96885834>>shows zero remorse or self-reflection when proof comes out that the people he sentenced to death were innocent>When he was granted the title of Prelate in 4682 AR, Hulrun was forced to temper his obsession, although it had been only in the last few years of his life that he had truly begun to understand the shame his inquisitions have brought to the faith of Iomedae.Also> these witch burnings at least encouraged others to join the inquisitions
>>96885834>"Good, evil, what's the difference? All forces of chaos are the same. Demons, azatas, Nocticula or Desna and Sarenrae, it all makes no difference to me. All they think about is destroying and tearing down..."I've almost word-for-word used a speech like this for a LE paladin.
>>96889293Enemies dispelling underwater breathing is a good Sally Ann test for the GM.
>>96872785>>96872820I've settled on>You add half your Wisdom and the combined value of your battle auras' status bonuses and penalties to your strikes.for the 7th level feature
>>96890015Actually, scratch that, full WIS and the highest value from auras is better. Raises the floor and lowers the ceiling (that you wouldn't ever realistically reach).
QUICK WHAT'S THE CALCULATION FOR CLASS SAVE DC FOR CREATURES IF IT'S NOT LISTED??
kitsune whores owe me sex
>>96890315
>>96890318some guy on my table played a male kitsune and his character had a breakdown when he went to a part of the country where every motherfucker was calling him a rapist because of kitsune sterotypes
>>96890360nigga, I think you just suck
>>96890360What sterotypes?
>>96890518kitsunes being good chamers and spokepeople turn into "oh the women are pedophiles and the men are rapists who lure and trick people to fuck and eat them"
>>96890537Mental illness
>>96879247We can fix magus without removing spellstrike, here's how>leave magus completely unchanged>add a new class, the magus 2, which doesn't have spellstrike but actually functions on a basic fuckin level
>>96872785I gotta say, I kind of vibe with your magus changes? Dunno if I'm 100% on them but I like that idea a lot better than what we have
>>96890920Thanks. It still want to make something that's closer to the 1e version (even if I don't have personal experience with it) like>https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/fkcaok/alabasterlions_pf2_magus_homebrew/or>https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42qfq?2E-Magus#1since mine still has the gambling aspect bolted into it. At least it has more ways to "recharge" Spellstrike, even if it has steps now.
how do we cope with short 1-10lvl stories like in fucking dnd5.0?
My oracle is getting MKULTRA'd by the world sages because an unholy deity chose them. They're not even capable of dying either by normal means thanks to living vessel. How do you even stop this kind of combo? I'm at level 7 and my GM keeps giving me obligations to MURDER.
