>The Eldar are a dying race fighting a heroic last stand to save their species from certain damnation, desperately putting themselves in grave danger and showing more courage any anyone in the face of the depths of hell looming over them>The Tau are a faction of common soldiers with nothing more than their rifles and grit holding the line against mutant abominations, accursed sorcerers, and unholy mechanical monsters, relying on the hope that with enough ammunition and determination you can kill god>The Necrons are a race seeking salvation from their soulless existence, existing in the glory of their empire that is hollow and empty of substance despite its strength, trying to save what they can with the wonders of the old world so that they can one day go back to a life worth living>The Imperium is an empire of terrifying godlike psykers, living demigods made flesh, nightmarish mechanized monstrosities, and fanatical cyborg abominations, all of whom want nothing more than to see every other living creature annihilated down to the last infant even if their empire gains nothing from it but satisfactionWould the Imperium be better written as an antagonist faction?
>>96803311The Imperium IS an antagonist faction. Everyone in Warhammer 40k is an antagonist faction. That's kind of the fucking point.
>>96803311>Would the Imperium be better being read as an antagonist faction?this is the part we're having trouble with in these modern times
>>96803311>>The Imperial Guard are a faction of common soldiers with nothing more than their rifles and grit holding the line against mutant abominations, accursed sorcerers, and unholy mechanical monsters, relying on the hope that with enough ammunition and determination you can kill godftfyThere is more in need of fixing but I can't be bothered.
>>96803400The Imperial Guard still has those mutant abominations, accursed sorcerers, and unholy mechanical monsters on their side. They're not trying to kill god with ammo, they're the guys who are the ones that have the nightmare god on their side.
No you big baby bitch, if you wanna play the cool evil marines you pick chaos. There's no point if they're both baddies.
>>96803424Not to mention the absolute masses of mechanized armaments as well as the imperial fleet raining down hell from the skies.
>>96803349Too bad most imperiumfags actually genuinely think that the Imperium are the good guys.
>expecting GW to allow anyone but humans to have the spotlight for even 0.000001 seconds
>>96803492GW thinks they are too
>>96803311Post painted models.
>>96803589weren't things more even-handed in fantasy?what happened to that?
>>96803658well for one there wasn't as much of a gigantic poster boy faction that massively outsold all other factions the way marines were for most editions if not all even if some were more dominant than othersthe cheese was more evenly spread across everyone with only certain standout factions getting dumpstered by retarded rules and a few specifically busted combosfrom a writing and mechanical perspective 40k is plagued by marines being popular, almost everything from 8th and 9th was trying to make them more mechanically dominant and 10th is just trying to redo everything (again) in the hopes they can make it stick this timein turn the massive changes to marines every other release means they need to be included in the writing and they typically have to be shown winning so that their shiny new units are more enticing to buy
What makes the Imperium tragic is that they've let themselves become horrible monsters out of fear of winding up like the rest of them.
BUMP FOR THE BOT THREAD! BYTES TO THE BYTE THRONE!
>>96803492>>96803593Yo, retards. The Imperium is human. If you were alive in the world of 40k, you would think the Imperium is good because it preserves your race.
>>96803429>There's no point if they're both baddies.If this is your line of thinking I don't think 40k is the game for you.
>>96805194There are other human factions that preserve my race better
>>96805395No, I want to play the bad guys. There's no point in being the dudes with horns if the clean guys who kill all the evil monsters that want to eat everyone are supposed to be just as bad or some other bullshit. You're eating the meal off my plate.
>>96803311Whichever faction is your dudes is the protagonist and everyone else is potentially an antagonist. Thats it. Thats how the setting works.>but metaplot-I do not care what GW says, they're retarded and even their supporters know this.
Honestly the Imperium should just recreate The Rumbling and send 10,000 Titans to just wipe the Tau and Necrons off the map.
>>96806299lollmao
>>96803311Didn't the eldar cause most of the setting's problems?
>>96809040That's an interesting question, because it depends on what do you count as most of problems. I'm bored enough to actually try to figure out run down of the major setting problems.>TyranidsThey are the outside the context problem for everybody, completely unrelated to the Eldars. There were even suggestions that they zoned in on Milky Way due to the Astronomican, so humans are a suspect here.>NecronsElder were made to fight them once they became the genocidal robots, not the other way around, so they are clear from that.>OrkzShockingly, Elder do get credit for keeping Orkz from going back to Krorks by systematically trying to purge them and keep them from rampaging.>ChaosThat's the part where you can blame the Eldar Empire for their own fall to Chaos, which also was the final straw that broke the old human empire. The main difference is that the Craftworld Eldar are the descendants of guys who tried to stop it and evacuated once the situation became hopeless, while the Dark Eldar are the descendants of the bastards who caused this mess. So, Eldar are technically guilty, but the fault lies on the side of the Dark Eldar in particular.>Horus Heresy and recent Chaos incursionsThat's on the humans fucking it up themselves, without Eldars.>VerdictEldar didn't really cause more huge disasters than humans, especially if you consider the timescales involved. If you count the Eldar factions as separate groups for purpose of the judgement, 80% of fault for present issues lies in Dark Eldar, 18% in Craftworlders and about 2% in Corsairs.
>>96806401100% based and trueLorelets can't understand, because they don't have models.
>>96806401>Whichever faction is your dudes is the protagonist and everyone else is potentially an antagonistWhat if I play Dark Eldar? Checkmate.
>>96806401The lore of Warhammer:>I am hungry. I send my organs to collect food for me. Sometimes, the food fights back. Might chop off a limb, even. A mild setback. Some of the potential food looks promising in other ways. I send a specialized organ to make it part of me.
>>96809040honestly you can trace most problems to the old ones telling a race of cancer patients to get fucked and them to the Silent King deciding that a eldritch star eating entity name "The Deceiver" was a trustworthy guy
>>96809866To be fair, the Deceiver said he was trustworthy, that counts for something right?
>>96809927Go back to horus galaxy retard
>>96809866>honestly you can trace most problems to the old ones telling a race of cancer patients to get fucked The Necrontyr never started the war over their sick and infirm, they just needed to start a war against an outside empire before they destroyed themselves through their own internal strife. They're just assholes from the beginning. The Necrontyr are literally the kid who puts a stick through his bicycle wheel meme, blaming the Old Ones for simply defending their own territory
>>96809942>Ask question>Receive answer>Bitch about it like a faggot and/or troonStill doesn't invalidate the answer. Post a counter-argument or fuck off.
>>96803311...are you retarded? Are you able to read anything from someone's POV that isn't a white knight?
>>96809040Good things the Eldar did for the galaxy:>Beating the perfidious Necrons into a 65 million year stasis>Exterminating the Krorks and many other hyperaggressive xenos empires>Crushing Chaos cults for 65 million years and keeping the galaxy generally clean of the Warp's taint, while also collecting all of the captured Chaos lores into the Black Library>Maintaining and expanding the Webway and honoring the legacy of the Old Ones>Conveniently wiping themselves out at the exact moment that the Emperor launched his genocidal campaign to conquer the galaxy, purge all genetically deviant humans, and terminate all xenos >In the post-Fall era, Craftworlds and Harlequins have been working for thousands of years to help humanity survive and beat back Chaos and other threats, such as the Beast>Eldrad exterminated the Cabal during the events of the Horus Heresy>The Ynnari resurrected Guilliman, which basically saved half the ImperiumBad things the Eldar did for the galaxy:>Murderfucking themselves into birthing a new Chaos god and creating the Eye of Terror>By extension, every bad thing Slaanesh has done is therefore the Eldar's fault as well. So one Primarch and Legion turned traitor because of them. >The Drukhari have been raiding Imperial worlds for thousands of years as well, weakening the Imperium further
>>96810085>The Drukhari have been raiding Imperial worlds for thousands of years as well, weakening the Imperium furtherWasn't there at least one Archon that really enjoyed being an imperial bureaucrat in some random system just because of the ridiculous levels of suffering doing the job (properly) caused? They're not all bad.
>>96810184There have also been Drukhari raids that have destroyed Chaos fleets, Waaaaghs!, Tau expansion fleets, and other threats to Imperial worlds simply because they consider those worlds their own hunting grounds by right. But these events are pretty rare compared to the usual "we harvest billions of citizens, leaving only just enough on a planet that the population can recover in a decade so we can harvest them again" raiding strategy most Kabals prefer
>>96809040>TyranidsImperium's fault (Marines activating the Pharos attracted them)>OrksImperium's fault (Orks were mostly contained and rendered an inconvenience until the Great Crusade gave them fights to grow off of)>ChaosImperium's fault (Every major Chaos leader is a Human. Before the Great Crusade, Chaos worship was sparse, scattered, and disorganized. The largest forces of Chaos are fallen Space Marines.)>NecronsNecrontyr's fault. If we want to get even more specific, Szarekh's fault. (Necrontyr were a race of arrogant 'conquerors' controlled by despots. Their initial war on the Old Ones went so badly that it nearly destroyed their entire society with dynastic civil wars and uprisings. Szarekh took the C'tan's bargain to save his power, not his people)>TauNot really anyone's fault, they just sorta happened. Technically the Imperium could be blamed for the rapid Tau expansion, but that's more just out of neglect.>Dark EldarAt best you can say the Eldar weren't able to stop the Fall, which led to the Dark Eldar forming.
>>96809676AI post
>>96810276My neurodivergence is organic, free from the taint of the abominable machine.
>>96803311>Would the Imperium be better written as an antagonist faction?It's the side of humans. Only xenophile libtard cuckcs could ever see it as an antagonist.
>>96803311The Imperium is best written when it is self sabotaging.
>>96803311Nah, Imperium's about as close as it gets to a protagonist. Eldar birthed a chaos god out of sheer degeneracy, necrons are psychopathic murderbots, orks are a fight-crazy fungal infection, tyranids are a hivemind seeking to devour all existence, chaos are actual lunatics trying to ruin everything, and tau are communists.
>>96810614Tau are more fascist than communist. Same thing I know but still.
>>96803311The Imperium are ok with the Eldar sometimes though.
>>96803311Based setting understander
>>96806299>source I made it the fuck up
>>96803424>Mutant abominationsIn the biz we call that a "Diversity win".>Accursed sorcerers"Neurodivergent win.">Mechanical monsters"Disability win."
>>96809676The Tyranids are looking more likely to be the Necrons' fault because some guy at the company has a real hate-on for the Silent King.
>>96803311>comicThat is so fuckin' cringe. Limitless reddit energy
>>96812033It's badass is what it is.
>>96803893Anecdotally I've seen anons say that Space Marine tactical squad boxes alone outsold all of Warhammer Fantasy at some point. I can't prove that it's true, but I believe it.
>>96809676100% of the blame for 40k's state of the galaxy lies with the Old Ones, who are the root cause of everything, except the actual creation of Necrons, but they *are* the reason why the Necrons went on a successful anti-life and anti-Chaos crusade that wiped the galaxy at least once before.Especially since depending on which retcons you include/exclude, the Tyranids are heavily implied to be another Old Ones product/project sent to try to take revenge on the Necrons and/or Chaos.
>>96803492You can think GW for that. They've been treating the Imperium as the unambiguous good guys since at least 5E.>>96805194The evils of bureaucracy vs. the evil that wants to rape your soul. The latter being objectively worse doesn't make the first good. Moral relativism is for losers.>>96806299No, there isn't.
>>96810085>>Conveniently wiping themselves out at the exact moment that the Emperor launched his genocidal campaign to conquer the galaxy, purge all genetically deviant humans, and terminate all xenosThe crusade had to start because the human realms were broken and cut off from each other because of the warp storms which happened because of the birth of Slaanesh which is the event in which the Eldar wiped most of themselves out.Your cause and effect sequence is backwards.
>>96810619Based retard hasn't heard of the species behind the horus heresy
>>96812281>a retarded leper race comes to ask a hyperintelligent space frogs for help>frogs say: LOL. LMAO.>5 minutes later 99% of intelligent life in the galaxy is extinguishedHow did eldar survive the enslavers again?
>>96806299Sorry bro Imperium killed them all except squats/Votann and those guys are cloned designer babies
>>96805194If I were alive in the world of 40k I'd be an elf, because I'm white.
>>96805194>If you were alive in the world of 40k, you would think the Imperium is good because it preserves your race.Wrong, because i had no fucking about about any meta stuff. I would be some miserable nobody on a miserable north korea type world, living a shitty life, being bombarded by hollow fearmongering propaganda to justify my shitty work conditions and my even shittier living condicions, while my planetary nobility drinks amasec and shit in golden toilet. If i were alive in the universe of 40k without meta knowledge, i would hate its fucking guts
>>96813045Holy shit a million times this.People always wonder why so many humans just willingly join chaos and this is reason number one.
>>96812910>we've been rejected by the space frogs. well time to ally with the soul eating clouds
>>96813045Yeah but if the imperium loses you're still fucked tho
>>96813854Yes, but you're also fucked if they don't. The Imperium is essentially holding humanity hostage.
>>96803492For what I've seen, that's a recent thing.
>>96812822>The crusade had to start because the human realms were broken and cut off from each other because of the warp stormsIncorrect youtuber sloplore. The Old Night started due to the Men of Iron revolution which literally obliterated the entire galactic empire of humanity, sending it straight back to the stone ages. Humanity of that era already had such unbelievably advanced warp drive tech and gellar fields that warp storms were nothing to them. See also: Custodes ships and the Black Ships, both of which incorporate these hyper-advanced lost techs and can just cruise right through the worst warp storms in the universe without hesitation or trouble.>which happened because of the birth of SlaaneshSpecifically the birthing pains of Slaanesh, the pre-birth, were causing the warp storms. The exact moment of Slaanesh's birth, when the Eldar were obliterated, caused the Warp great difficulty and it exhausted its energy for a while, creating a great Warp calm that the Emperor exploited to launch the Great Crusade.
>>96812281I don't see how you could possibly put it on the old ones and not "you have wronged us forever by saying no, we don't want the reason we want the entire galaxy dead NOW" necrontyr, the actual reason everything is ruined forever
>>96803492There are no -good guys-.That way everybody can fight everybody else, any time, for any reason.Because the setting has to conform to the conventions of a war game.Which means everybody is assholes, therefore war.
>>96809676>Shockingly, Elder do get credit for keeping Orkz from going back to Krorks by systematically trying to purge them and keep them from rampaging.that seems the most lorelet take ever
>>96816340Had the autistic frogs not been so autistic, they would've had no reason to create the rest of 40k's disasters (including eldar, krorks, Chaos and humanity, etc.), not to mention triggering the necron disaster itself.Autistic frogs making fun of the retarded sick chihuahua, instead of helping it become something more and decent, made it become the galaxy destroying dobermann. That IMHO cements the vast majority of blame squarely onto their shoulders.
>>96813045It is your fault for not being well born. Your desire for something more than toiling in a manufactorum shows your lack of stoicism. A man should be content with his lot. Macharius despite the glory and the luxury in which he lived was eternally poor because he desired more. While a slave who is content to harvest wheat or work 14 hours a day to produce weapons for the Imperial army will be rich inside. Go thank the God Emperor for the life that He has given you.
>>96803311>the eldarAre literally 99% the reason why the setting is so shit. >the tauLiterally not a faction, the fucking Ultramarines are a larger empire.>necronsWill enslave or exterminate every other race. >Imperium Doing all these "horrible" things to survive. This thread reeks of "media literary" Rëddit bugman thinking.
>>96821072>Doing all these "horrible" things to survive.Why did they have to give Chaos 9 Space Marine legions?
>>96821022Damned if you do, damned if you don't.>MeddleYOU DID THIS>Refuse to meddleYOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THISAnd people wonder why the presumed default political stance for advanced starfaring races in 40k is "swarm of rapey locusts".It's the most consistent approach, and nobody can really blame you for failing to live up to some high-falutin abstract idea.Take the Nid pill.
