So what’s retarded about Vagabond and why is it the magic system?
Looks like a decent enough game, probably not my cup of tea.
>>96827563>Play Wizard>Look for fireball>No fireball>Anger rises>Find Fire effect>Yus!>…Fuck’s a delivery!?>Fuck does casting for damage mean!?>Lighting shit on fire IS DAMAGE!Am I dumb?
>>96827563It's not D&D so nobody gives a shit about it. Never played it, it could be the greatest game ever, but it's not D&Dogshit so 99.9% of the TTRPG community will never even try it. Sad but true.
>>96827563>Vagabond>Nimble>Draw Steel>Daggerheart>Shadowdark>Pathfinderhow many fucking DnD games do we really need?
>>96830198There are so many more than that. People trying to make "D&D but better!" has been a thing for nearly as long as D&D has existed.
>>96830230I just wish we had a more modular TTRPG, like genre-wise. Something you can just plug different settings into and play them.
>>96830478There's a lot of Universal systems anon>Fate>GURPS>SW>GORE>Genysis>4c>Hero system>Tricube tales>EZD6>Fudge>Mythic>BRPQuite a few companies publish their setting agnostic base rule sets so you can build your own systems but if you understand the system you can easily run games without prepping a bunch of shit. You can even build material as you go.D100 and lite systems are particularly good for it. >but muh 300 gorillion classes, subsystems and crunchYou're fucked if you can't get over that.
>So what’s retarded about Vagabond and why is it the magic system?
>>96830603Bruh, I don’t even care about that subclass or subsystem shit. As long as I can plug shit like into it without too much fuss I’m good.
>>96833162I do appreciate the recommendations though anon, the virgin/chad wizard meme is for you.
>>96833162My point was if you're married to the idea that you can only do something if there's a rule or skill for it then generic systems aren't for you. Except GURPs and Savage Worlds, those are bad examples, they just offload everything onto sourcebooks, which is the same thing in my opinion.I believe in you anon.
Red Giant did this before Vagabond did, only reason it's more popular is cause Indestructoboy sucks off bigger YouTubers behind the scenes like Deficient MastersDude has such an ego he's basically the Pirate Software of the Ttrpg hobby, also he's heavily anti-piracy and hooks up with that Zweihander dude or whatever
Bump
>>96833780He was always open about the origins of the mechanics in his book.
>>96830198every time wotc fails to make something new we are gonna get a big wave of fantasy heartbreakers. I've been playing 13th age for like 10 years so thats the only one I need. I keep my eye out other good games though. Tactiquest has some solid bits and bobs , ICON has a few excellent chapters. Torchbearer is quite good. Draw Steel is okay I suppose. 4e was excellent for its time but I want 4e too. One person is slowly homebrewing expansion and metabalance for each 4e class which is worth keeping an eye on
Not related with the magic system, but man I remember being in the playtest server of this game.Bro legit has no PR skill and was ego tripping 24/7, dude legit pushed so many backers away because he was being an asshole but hey, guess that doesn't matter if you can suck off peoles cock underneath the table to promote your game
>>96833228I agree with you but personally find SW easy to make shit for.>Novice ranksEnemy stat dice are d4's, the relevant attack dice skill and attribute die they mainly is a d6. Apply edges and hinderance for flavor.>SeasonedBase d4, relevant d8>VeteranBase d6, relevant d8>HeroicBase d8, relevant d10>LegendaryBase 18, relevant d12That's my quick and minion stats. For mini-boss shit increase relevant value, for bosses increase both die values. Apply edges and hindrances as you see fit that may or may not alter them further. Applicable gear that can effect damage which should be shit the player's should reasonably be able to find at that point so they aren't tempted to loot all the shit the enemies have. Mini-bosses and bosses should have slightly better to clearly better gear.I'm sure someone will say my general layout is retarded though. Just saying what works for me and has been a good general rule of thumb. I do agree that sheer volume of extra content in splats makes it seem like generic world building based off just the CRB alone is unfeasible though.
>>96830198The more, the merrier. Platform games are always trying to be Metroid or Castlevania and some of them suck, some are pretty good.
>>96830478Try Genesys
>>96835198Genesys is probably the best all round system made, but good fucking luck getting people to even try it.
>>96830198Someone unironically called their game Shadowdark?
>>96835544Yeah, it has "50 years of innovation" but honestly it's very much a strip down 5e, it's good and does the job well, but it doesn't do anything new or unique.>3d6 down the line>Advantage & Disadvantage>Roll for HP>Random Talents>Roll to CastThe only real standout is the focus on like, the 1 Hour IRL Torch Timer and if it goes out you get disadvantage on everything and random encounters gets check every round
>>96830478Tourist spotted
if I look this game up am I going to get boring as shit martials again where only casters have any depth?
>>96837292Yes, as someone who has been part of the playtest this was brought up to him MULTIPLE times. But he brushed it off because "derp just grab le perks" as if it's 3.5e or 5e even though Casters can wear armor and also have the same HP as a Barbarian due to it being Might x LVL with a Cap of 70, or 80 if Dwarf.It takes a Fighter to reach max level (10th) to make 2 attacks per turn, meanwhile casters have so many tools due to how spells are like and are so vastly versatile you're better off playing either a Magus or Revelator (Spellblade and Paladin) to scratch that martial itch and grab the Mana perk to get extra mana.The gameplay loop may be "solid" but it's very repetitive and boring for martials, I rather have some options then just redoing the same shit over and over again. For a game that wants to be OSR it legit doesn't give any materials like DCC Mighty Deeds or anything of the sorts, leading to the 5e problem of "I move, I attack, end turn."But hey, ignored all feedback because Treantmonk said "You have a martial and caster divide IN favor of martials" ya know, the dude who only really knows about 3.5e and 5e only and nothing else.
>>96837292I think the fact that the only thing people mention about the system is the magic says everything you need to know. I get non-vancian magic is mindblowing to DnDonlies, but this is a magic system that's existed in other games for years.
>>96830198Unimaginative crisis. Nobody tries something different, everyone copies DnD. Not fantasy, not movies, just DnD.
>>96837402Probably because the vast majority of modern DnD players get 99.9% of their idea of what the Fantasy genre is from DnD itself. They don't read, watch, or play anything that isn't DnD or something a single step removed from the kind of fantasy it does.
>>96837325About what I expected, D&D brainrot runs deepAnd 3.5/pathfinder already has fixes in the form of Book of 9 Swords, Path of War and Spheres of MightAny game delivering martials as just auto attack bots should be immediately discarded
>>96837453Like it's hard to make dnd martials fun.Too many abilities & spells give advantage. Make them a bonus or remove them. Make martials get advantage if they attack some way they haven't done before (improv. Belt as whip, with a farmer's spear, let yourself be stabbed to grapple the guy)If you want more.. Idk, make some class get more actions? Let martials (not casters) describe hitting high, strike medium or swipe low on front, back or side. Monster manual can point out weakness points the GM picks from.
>>96830478If only there were some sort of generic, universal roleplaying system...
>>96837453Not surprising considering he works from a 5e background, sure he reviews other games before (Zweihander, Candela Obscura, Shadowdark) but like he doesn't really engage with those community much nor really make content.Doesn't help that his 5e design is dogshit anyway like his Vanguard class being a clunky AF tank, or how the Runekeeper is incomplete and was promised to have updates but his excuse is just "It doesn't make sense financially to update my stuff".I'm glad that his 5.5e Alchemist sold badly
>>96830198The Internet has just made the volume explode, there were plenty of fantasy heartbreakers that tried to be the new better D&D back in the day of 4E too but only Pathfinder persevered. Pic related was one of the better ones.
>>96837408The fun thing is they all think they're super deep when they're clones from each other like isekai in anime
>>96837612No stop this is the same shit that SotDL does where martials are all defined by small numerical bonuses while casters can do cool thingsDo not let the fighter get +1d4 on his attack, let the caster throw a sword brutally hard and pin an opponent his same size or below with it.
>>96837612>>96837963Someone else already mentioned it, but Dungeon Crawl Classics remedies the boring martial issue pretty deftly via Heroic Deeds. Basically, you have an extra die you roll alongside your action die. This die adds to your to-hit and damage, but more importantly, it allows you to attempt "Heroic Deeds", which are...literally anything the player can think of, so long as it's physically possible for the character to attempt it, and it's not just some way to deal additional damage. If your Deed Die is 3 or better (and the attack succeeds overall), then your deed succeeds in some capacity. There is a pretty long list of default/suggested deeds, but the book heavily encourages the player to come up with stuff off the cuff.
>>96837899Fantasy Craft is criminally underrated, but after Crafty themselves dropped it in favor of chasing Mistborn license games, and never delivered Spellbound, not even the fans felt like talking about it anymore... and then Brando Sando took the Mistborn license and the license to all his other books and left Crafty completely screwed. No new Spycraft. No new Fantasy Craft material. Now they just make mediocre board games no one cares about.
>>96838049DCC is good for acknowledging the need but its also extremely bare minimumThe fact that systems are still coming out with less complex fighters than DCC, which is extremely lightweight, is retarded
>>96838364I mostly agree with that. I think ultimately it speaks to an idea that a lot of designers are afraid of, that being baking some degree of GM/player agency into the system in regards to mechanics.There seems to be this firm belief that the totality of what a character can do has to be represented by hard numbers, and that "homebrew" is less legitimate than what's written explicitly in the books. I can blame 3.X for planting the seeds of buildslop, but I feel 5e has to shoulder the blame for the above (and I suppose 4e, to a degree). There's a reason for that too, and I think it's Adventurer's League and WotC's push towards that kinda play being the standard. You can't really have people deviating from the rules as written if they're meant to be running the same characters through pre-written pick-up games.The problem is, none of these systems people are designing have that infrastructure. They're aping those aspects of 5e without understanding why it's made that way in the first place, and it leads to the shitty, boring stuff we have now. It'd be remedied if these guys played literally anything that wasn't DnD/DnD adjacent, but that's a lost cause for most I fear.
Gotta love a magic system that shits all over martial. Hell, one of the Martial (a Dancer) can be a cuck in the corner, sacrificing their turn to let the Chad Wizard unleash another spell in a turn. In a way the Dancer is like a copy of another character minus adding extra resources.Still a cuck of a playstyle
>>96835059I agree, I'm running a Deadlands game right now and the math is so transparent it's easy to just do enemies on the fly.
>>96838364What would you do to expand on a DCC style martial? Seriously, I’m homebrewing a table system for my group and I’m at a loss here.
>>96830198people should copy Rolemaster instead of DnD
>>96838922For DCC specifically Heroic Deeds cover most things, but DCC is a bit of a silly game I would never use for long term campaignsI would probably make heavier use of the crit tables to be in line with the kind of randomness of casters. I would also add some more out of combat stuff or fluff in the vein of mercurial magic.But outside of wacky DCC specifically I think its too all encompassing to pull basically everything into a single d6 roll.If youre looking for ideas, Ive honestly found a lot of inspiration in Dungeon World playbooks. PBTA is a dogshit system for actually playing but I really appreciate a number of the talents are written as just "You can do X"For example, from some of the martial playbooks-You cannot be surprised, actually if something tries to surprise attack you, you surprise attack them first (Thief)-If you see divine magic you can just instantly ID what god it was from (Paladin)-Hirelings accept making you happy as payment (bit more elaborate than that but thats the gist) (Barbarian)Of course theres also a mix of like +damage or +healing or +health skills, but to me having clear cut things martials can just do is really important
>>96838736>cuck of a playstyleAnon... you gave me an idea.
>>96835592Sounds neatWhat's it do with classes?
>>96837325>"I move, I attack, end turn."ur doing it wrong
>>96840199Core rule has 4 of them (Fighter, Priest, Thief, Wizard) and Cursed Scroll (official zines) have usually 2-3 classes in them, currently on Zine #4 and with #5 and #6 in the works for the first campaign setting (Western Reaches).Each class has 2-3 abilities, and when you make a character you roll 2d6 for your class table and get a random talent. You do this every odd level (3-5-7-9) with 10th being the cap.The quick start rules are free and comes with a premade adventure/dungeon, highly recommend it, best free preview I seen for any Ttrpg out there!
>>96840255thanks>2025the rules are free
>>96839716Ten four fren, I’ll take a look at Dungeon World. <— For you
Anyone had any interaction with the creator? I heard from people he's an asshole behind the scene, curious if anyone knows about it
>>96844327I've been in the community since 2024, and I've only seen him be really rude when someone was insisting that he should give the PDF for free when someone bought the physical book, when that's not the standard.So he was really rude this time because the guy was annoying. Otherwise, he just won't treat you like you're special, he'll explain his points and that's it. He believes that his system is not meant to explain every detail, and his proposal is, I don't know, not to have subclasses, and that's it. He won't budge to change that. Since this is 4Chan, I guess it would be more of a problem with his political opinions. I'm woke, so fuck it. Everyone I saw complaining was like, “I won't give him my money because he didn't suck up to Charlie Kirk or Trump.” Fuck that too, he's almost sold out of his books because of Deficient Master, the community is growing, and that's it.If you're pirating because you hate it, okay, you'll disappear soon enough. If you're pirating and you're going to play it, that's cool, you enjoyed it and that's what matters.
>>96830198Nigga, this literally dates back to when St. Andre made Tunnels & Trolls back in the 70s
>>96844643I'm woke too (fuck Trump and fuck Charlie Kirk), but the dude is a massive asshole behind the scene lmfao. Take this with a grain of salt but he has platformed questionable people before (Grim Jim, chud person who wrote questionable stuff), faced backlash for wrongfully calling out an artist for AI use (when no AI was used), but also has said questionable things about his ex in a Vagabond server he nuked during the playtesting days.I don't care for the game, it's just boring and whatever, dude is an ass who burned bridges from what I heard.He is literally the Pirate software of the Ttrpg industry.
>>96845725Zoomers think the world started in 2012.
>>96835323Narrative dice get old quickly.
>>96840255It's funny to me one of the Cursed Scroll I bothered to skim over was desert themed but didn't know deserts are super cold at night. Really show the (non existent) amount of research and work that was put into this scam.Somehow people read that and node and keep buying more. I really need to beat myself up and start to get on that gravy train too.
>>96846456I remember him commenting once on a live stream that he can't call someone anymore because people are annoying, but I think it was just because he was from 5e? Something like that, if not, maybe it's just a random asshole. Talking about AI sucks, even though I don't like it, accusing like that is lame. And the only thing I know about his ex is his current ex, who he made a point of mentioning on the server that he was leaving the relationship with her because she lived far away. Other than that, I honestly don't know much about him. The other day he was badmouthing MCDM and saying how they're such jerks that he would never advertise their products.
>>96850064The hell he been saying about MCDM? I refuse to be on some YouTuber server but I am curious about this, like I enjoy MCDM 5e products in the past like Flee Mortals, still need to try out the Draw Steel stuff.But like what he was saying?
>>96850175AI summarized cuz I'm lazy to edit screenshots. And context: Illrigger is a new class that will be released in the first supplement for Vagabond, which includes some new things like this class itself and other things that were cut from the Core Rulebook due to costs and other reasons.The discussion started when a user asked about the "Illrigger" name: "Isn't "Illrigger" trademarked by MCDM Productions, LLC? Or does it only serve as a placeholder here?" Taron Pounds | Project Lead replied, "What? No, it's like old school Dragon Magazine," and "Besides, let em try and sue. It would kill their reputation." Another user quickly followed up with a correction: "my bad, they've actually tried to trademark it, but the status has been denied since 2022."This information prompted a negative reaction toward MCDM. Taron Pounds | Project Lead responded, "Seriously? Pretty much scans for the vibe I get from MCDM." Another user added, "Imagine attempting to trademark a word you admitted to “borrowing” from a decades-old magazine," which led Taron Pounds | Project Lead to comment, "That’s Colville for ya." Taron Pounds | Project Lead also clarified the word's origin, noting, "“Malicious” “Cheat” is basically the etymology" and "They said so in the Dungeon Magazine it came from."Taron Pounds | Project Lead then explained his personal decision regarding the company, stating, "Oh I requested to get taken off their review list after Colville dunked on other 3PPs during a livestream for the Talent." He elaborated on his perception of the company, saying, "Since then, I’ve heard about all kinds of Regina George level BS coming from that company." In response to a joke about reviewing MCDM's "Draw Steel," Taron Pounds | Project Lead said, "Lol yeah, literally never. I won't spotlight anything that has some of those drama mongers involved."
>>96850344>"Drama Mongers"Lol, lmao evenThat's rich coming from him and how he loves to butthead when he was on Twitter but also with backers
>>96850344Right, so shit that doesn’t matter. Couldn’t give less of a damn about YouTuber drama.
>>96835059For GURPS, it's also easy to make shit up on the fly. You don't have to track point costs for NPCs so you just write what you want them to do. And keep in mind a Skill level of:10 is ordinary12 is good14 is expert20 is a masterSo if I want to make a let's say a flying spear monkey of the top of my head. I write:Flying spear monkeyIQ 5, ST 8, DEX 15, HT 10Traits: flies, is monkey, fangs, claws, prehensile tailSkills: climbing 20, flying 14, spear 12, throwing 15Done. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it's good enough.GURPS is really simple, but it has so much in it that it's hard to learn at first, specially if you're a stickler for rules, then you can find an endless hole to dive in with a rule for anything you can think of. But it is supposed to be modular where you only dive into the minutia of the rules if it's appropriate for your campaign genre and tone. I probably don't need the detailed rules for the process of research and development for a dungeon delve, but it would be vital for one where youre a group of scientists developing a cure for a zombie pandemic.
>>96837963>Do not let the fighter get +1d4 on his attackyeah dumb fuck that's why I said give them advantagechrist for a hobby all about reading you can do fuck all of that
>>96853444Its the same shit you fucking retardThe point isnt the magnitude of the bonus it's that a numeric bonus is boring compared to an expansive toolkit like casters have
>>96837963>No stop this is the same shit that SotDL does where martials are all defined by small numerical bonuses while casters can do cool thingsConfirmed for never having played SotDL.
