Your thread question does not cater to Chronicles of Darkness players with no interest in Vampire the Masquerade. Elaborate on this.

>Alternate TQ
Tell us about your favorite antagonist, either from a player's perspective or as the ST who created them.

>>96828377
Zagreus is always an interesting dude to bring in on things. He's not necessarily an "antagonist," but he sure ain't there to help you, either.

oWoD was the second most popular TRPG in the market. But Requiem destroyed the popularity of the brand over the years.

>>96828413
should they have maybe picked a different splat as the "frontman" of cofd? vampire trying to compete with vampire was obviously going to split people

>>96828422
He's just trolling at this point.

>>96828413
Elaborate on this. There was no "destruction of popularity." Chronicles of Darkness is as popular as the World of Darkness was at its height and even if it wasn't, it is still superior in every meaningful way.

>>96828348
>How would you rewrite the Kuei-jin to fit better with the VtM mythos
I wouldn't. I would just expand on the "heretical Dharmas" in order to have multiple flavors of Kuei-Jin that better fit their cultural identities.

>>96828430
And what the troll doesn't want to admit is that WoD was completed. The Metaplots were all brought to completion and there were flaws with WoD they wanted to correct, like overall improvements to the mechanics and making all of the splats run off of a single central system, as well as designing all the splats so they exist in the same reality.

>>96828444
Exactly. I don't understand why people still fawn over the World of Darkness and why the Twentieth Anniversary was made at all, when Chronicles of Darkness eliminates all of its flaws to produce a perfect product. Why celebrate the old when the new is so much better?

>>96828374
>>96828364
Im sorry. I was really interested in the kuei-jin topic in the last thread and I enjoy reading how anons would reinterpret parts of the setting.

>>96828452
you could be at least a little bit transparent man

>>96828391
That's the requiem methuselah with the reality-bending Devotion, right?

>>96828452
There's no accounting for bad taste. The idiot masses don't really care about anything other than nostalgia. That's the only thing that the World of Darkness has going for it, really.

>>96828430
There's nothing to elaborate. Requiemtards were getting uppity in the last thread trying to claim that oWoD was less popular that their fiasco. When the reality is oWoD was the second most popular RPG just before the line ended and handed Requiem an Empire in silver plate, fumbled it and paved the way to everything going to shit.

>>96828452
20th makes sense as a super-compilation of the editions and metaplot content.

>>96828457
Yep, he has the power to declare something will happen and it will.

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>>96828461

>>96828461
You provide no evidence to counter the irrefutable truth that Chronicles of Darkness is as popular as World of Darkness ever was, if not more so. Elaborate or concede.

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There exists both good ideas and bad ideas oWoD and nWoD alike. An idea or concept can not be to your liking without being objectively bad. To argue about new and old when both suffer under the swedish yoke is foolish.

>>96828471
Please elaborate on what you think the bad ideas in CofD are.

>>96828444
That isn't what you said last thread, requiemfag. You tried to claim that oWoD was low in popularity when Requiem was launched as a way to rationalize the fall from grace of White Wolf. When it was the opposite: Requiem was extremely popular when it launched thanks to the good will and popularity of oWoD, and it slowly lost more and more fans as it went because everyone realized they got scammed by the usual suspects with their pretentious rebooting. Next time try not to claim fake shit before calling anyone a "troll".

>>96828453
I forgive you anon.
>>96828348
>TQ
Branch them out so Kuei-jin fits how the word came about. A term they all collectively came together and agreed upon because they didn't want stupid gweilo to use cainite for them. For that matter, ramp up the ravnos and ventrue hate in particular.

why are you like oil and water

>>96828463
Requiem has a vampire MtAs mage?

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I like v20.

>>96828487
Do you like it more than VtR2e? If so, explain why.

>>96828487
That's nice anon.

>>96828470
Take your meds Requiemfag. Unless you didn't notice Requiem has been discontinued for years now.

>>96828482
Are you really that retarded? I never said that, I said it was finished. You do know that more than one person is replying to you, right?

>>96828499
I'm sorry, but VtR2e books on the STV sell more than all of the official V5 and V20 books combined. Just check the figures.

At this point this edition warring seems like a WoD5 psyop.

>>96828509
Explain.

>>96828509
Probably, alongside two or three trolls beating themselves off without realizing it.

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Does anyone here have experience with the L.A.R.P. side of the Chronicles of Darkness? COVID killed our local scene (and it didn't have a good reputation anyway). I was hoping to try to revive it myself. It may give me a reason to socialize offline.

>>96828486
Yep, he's a 3000 year old ancient. Req vampirism is evolutionary, and the longer you live, including the time you sleep down your BP so you aren't stuck needing to feed off of other Kindred,you not only grow in raw power, you develop new powers like Bloodlines and Devotions.

>>96828499
>Still leaving out that CofD was only stopped from releasing new books because Paradox doesn't want internal competition with 5E

>>96828514
It's thriving, doing better than ever. It's absolutely dominating the scene. What do you want to know?

>>96828471
>An idea or concept can not be to your liking without being objectively bad.
Incorrect.

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>>96828348
Have an AI-upscaled version that I brute forced without any consideration for anything.

>>96828491
I never read it. v20 and v5 are all I know.
>>96828497
You're nice, anon.

>>96828531
Terrible

does anyone want to groom me into playing vtm or really any game (except mage or werewolf i don't like those ones)
please i will be a good player i promise

>>96828510
Whether you prefer oWoD or nWoD, let alone those of us that can appreciate aspects of both, both have suffered under Paradox's ownership of the IP.

nWoD/CofD got killed by Paradox outright. oWoD has been gutted with WoD5 wearing its skin for legitimacy and nostalgia baiting purposes.

Both should be unified rather than fighting, the only person this infighting benefits is Paradox.

>>96828543
CofD is doing better than ever in spite of Paradox's best efforts. It has not suffered at all. The same cannot be said for WoD.

>>96828422
They should have made what DnD does. Shamelessly bring a new edition, keep the same setting and pander to players selling them a supplement of every single one of their favorite race/clan/sect. Remember that this was the same year DnD went full greed with their corebooks with 3.5. To this day 3.5 is the edition with the biggest amount of corebooks. They even paid White Wolf to do books for them.

>>96828535
Yeah. All it really did was smooth out the image and present the small, low-detail image at a higher resolution. But that's what I was going for.

>>96828543
And Paradox created a new competitor in the space by cutting off the new book approvals. So instead of getting royalties off of OPP products, they're going to lose money to Curseborne taking part of the market.

>>96828523
Firstly, what are the challenges in running a L.A.R.P., especially socially and logistically?
Secondly, does an edition of Mind's Eye Theater exist for Mummy: the Cursed? (I was delighted to see that both Changeling: the Dreaming and Wraith: the Oblivion had an edition!)

>>96828531
Why do zoomer fledgings dress this way? Don't they respect themselves? Does her sire know about this breech of fourth tradition? Kindred society just isn't the same in these modern nights. At least back in Rome they had an excuse.

>>96828471
I grant you that Requiem will never be as bad as V5, not in a million years. Requiem has mood to it. But I don't like when Requiemfags act cocky and want to rewrite history. That wont happen under my watch.

>>96828523
Not the anon you replied to, but is there a place to check in on it? I have it found to keep track of the various splinter groups.

>>96828563
Anon. That's Ming Xiao.

>>96828564
>But I don't like when Requiemfags act cocky and want to rewrite history. That wont happen under my watch.
Says the twit rewriting history because he doesn't like it.

>>96828567
Shush, just let the senile Ventrue bluster.

>>96828542
Aren't you the guy who is supposed to be running Wraith: the Oblivion for us?

>>96828551
Would you play Dwarf: the Digging?

>>96828572
but i dont have any experience in any ttrpg really but i like the narrative of wod games but there no no way i could ST anything without crumbling under pressure

>>96828523 >>96828561
I've read on /tg/ that American L.A.R.P.s are notoriously low-budget. Is there a way to remedy this?

>>96828581
You sound like a bottom. Stop making me horny! Be assertive!

>>96828588

Make it a more popular hobby and raise the general standard of living so they can invest into props, etc. Most LARPers are poor, most LARPs are money pits for the runners.

>>96828590
i just want to play with someone but i have no confidence :(

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>>96828603
Maybe we can guilt some Nordic-style organizations to donate to the underprivileged...

>>96828614
Fake it until you make it.

Anyone know if dominate can be used through phones and the radio? It's partially vocal, so there's gotta be a chance for it.

>>96828578

Don't you fucking tempt me with a good time

>>96828572

Nope, that's me from the other day. I'm really losing the internal struggle to not strong arm my group into a like intro one-shot just to see how it goes.

>>96828652
Or how about Goblin: the Raiding?

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>>96828654
Do it!

>>96828659
Only if there's pregnancy mechanics

>>96828578
>>96828659

Those are just takes on C:tD.

>>96828695
But would you play them?

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>>96828578
No, but I WOULD play the CofD version of it, Dwarves: the Deep

>>96828764
I prefer Dwarves: the Fortress.

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>>96828348
Drawfag here, back with an O'Tooley's update! Hope you all enjoy!

>TQ
I would not, I would instead write them to fit more into Wraith, which they feel more like to me anyways. Wraiths in unliving bodies.
But, alternately, I would write them as out and out Eastern Cainites, sharing the same Dark Father as the Western brood. I would then explicate different Eastern Clans based on the mythologies of China, Japan, and Korea.

>>96828773
How do you keep up with the game that has 52 editions, jesus christ man

>>96828777
>bug burger

This is the WoD updated for the 2020s I want to see.

>>96828788
I want to, once this is done, draw some advertisements for O'Tooley's and Pentex in general.
For example, a wildly grinning man holding a burger stuffed with hideous arthropods, saying
"Don't you want to save the planet with Us?"

I'd add, the Mega-Flesh too is basically a 1-1 for labgrown meat, just with the pretty veneer stripped away. Mega-Flesh is, as I imagined, basically a mass of quivering, screaming cancer that is constantly being hacked apart by grimy laborers, and is constantly regrowing.

>>96828799
Maybe look up Ebola Cola ads from Transmetropolitan, your might find them inspiring.

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>>96828777
>777
Checked and mmmm, bloat burgers. What ARE they made of?

>"Don't you want to save the planet with Us?"
Shorten that to: "Help save the planet!" Slogans are not long or disquisitive.

>a mass of quivering, screaming cancer that is constantly being hacked apart by grimy laborers, and is constantly regrowing.
Yes, yes, sure, but what kind of flavor toppings do you have?

Yeah, I know that sometimes actors behave like witches and wear wizard... costumes. But the same can be said of real witches and wizards, right?
These days, the real ones have to go around, wearing bald wigs over their beards. And they have to live normal-seeming, fake-ass little lives.

>>96828637
yeah, if your interlocutor is blood bonded, maybe with 7+ powers
the look into the soul part is somewhat mandatory

Can a fully loaded swat team take out the average elder?

>>96828777
I love this exaggerated Tolley, keep up the good work.

>>96828885
By surprise? Maybe depends on the area.
With forewarning? No.

>>96828819
>What ARE they made of?
What AREN'T they made of? They're probably made with bane-infested animal flesh, random chemicals, various inorganic binders, and probably the flesh man-cattle too!
>Shorten that
"Share Mother Earth! Eat with Us now!"
>what kind of flavor toppings
Man IMAGINE the horrors of a topping bar at O'Tooley's. "Lotso-chocco burger syrup!(now with 100% 'real' choco! 0% chocolate)" or "the sauce" or "slopponnaise" or "Freddie Fly's Funky Flavor Spread"
>>96828889
I'll be honestly, something that stuck with me for years was the "Bloatys Pizza Hog" commercials from Invader Zim. The symmetry with O'Tooley's just felt perfect. So that kind of preposterous gruesomeness, that crosses over in dark comedy, is exactly what Im putting into the mix.

>>96828885
Perhaps if the Elder is stupid enough to stand out in the open and allow the swat team to blast them. Also, Elder is a range that goes from like 300-2000, so not all are created equal.

But even if we go with a fresh, 300 year dead and average for their age Elder... nah I wouldn't bet on the SWAT guys. A: They're SWAT, not Hunters, and have no idea what would work on vampires. Even if they had the drop on the vampire (which is unlikely given how easily they can have superhuman senses in both Vampire games), they'd lose it trying to take them nonlethally. Guns are better than nothing but ineffective, and they have no idea how to counter a vampire's disciplines. Enough Presence/Majesty and the vampire can defeat them without firing a shot, making all the SWAT guys fall to their knees and beg forgiveness for trying to get them. Obfuscate could allow the Elder to vanish before their very eyes and pick them off one by one. Animalism could turn it into a squad of dudes vs. a vampire into a squad of dudes vs. every animal in a two mile radius and a vampire... you get the idea.

vs. Elder is a match-up hunters struggle with. Straight off the line SWAT guys don't have the knowledge or experience to stand a chance.

I've been thinking that the Masquerade / Veil exists not because humans are a threat, but because they are a nuisance. Vampires could very easily be accepted into mainstream society, even conquer it. But then they'd have to deal with annoying groupies wanting to be Embraced. Magi would have to deal with providing magical solutions to everyone's problems instead of delving into the Mysteries.

I feel like brainstorming a bit. How would you RP a low gen, but young vampire? I may have written myself into a corner with one of my NPCs. Can my PCs bully and order her around, because she's a fledgeling and they technically out-age her or be wary of her because she has a powerful dad? Or both? The gist is that she's been installed into PCs coterie to be the Prince's personal rat and everybody knows she's a rat, the players are just keeping up appearances, because everybody's technically working towards the same goal.

>>96828452
I still prefer the Imbued over the Hunters of the Vigil, although the Vigilites do have some cool aspects to them. Some of the high tier groups are cool, and the potential to become a Slasher is neat.

But Wendell Delburton shot Lucifer. Christ compelled him. I don't think a Vigil Hunter's done anything nearly as cool.

>>96828885
Presuming an elder with 15 soak, 6 ARs should chew through it if they fire full-auto in an ambush. But that's Delta Force shit, you don't get any Ready or Not rank playing like that, SWAT would pepperball Orlok first.

>>96828480
Werewolves being spirit ICE is kind of dumb. Those ghost babies they had in 1e because they kept the sacred cow that werewolves can't fuck each other. Mage. Just, all of it. Changeling being about someone who got diddled. Beast. Again: just, all of it.

>>96828982
How was she trained post-embrace? Which clan? On one hand I imagine just icing her out and being distant is par for the course. On the other, one isn't shoved into a group purely as a rat. There's some mask so make use of the mask. Like she's a quartermaster and despite the coterie's qualms, she has the best stuff so they go to her. Small talk happens cause they're all fuckin neonates.

>>96828982
So if you're low gen but young, you can throw your weight around if you're willing to and able to burn your blood pool like a motherfucker. Low gen especially benefits physical unga bunga and Dominate. However, since you don't have the centuries of experience to back it up, you can get your shit rocked by a more experienced guy with a piddly generation since bloodbuff is inefficient when compared to the combat disciplines. However, you also have a huge target on your back. Young but low gen is the ideal target for a diablerist. One may want to conceal the potency of their blood as a result.

Her being the Prince's childe and thus enjoying his protection is a double edged sword. On one hand, yes she does have the protection of someone who can back up their generation with experience. On the other, if she starts acting like an entitled little shit bossing everyone around because muh vampire dad, it'll show very poorly on him and it may cause him to lose the city's favor. Clan also matters somewhat here.

>>96828982
Would they even know of her generation? I doubt it's something that comes up in regular conversation or debriefs. Is her sire a kindred historical figure? Hell would she understand the significance of her generation in practical terms?

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>>96828976
>Magi would have to deal with providing magical solutions to everyone's problems instead of delving into the Mysteries
>The public would find the Akashic's teaching too vague and confusing
>Hermetics would tell them to fuck off AND "git gud"
>Would be too distraced and feign moral outrage over the Ecstatics' way of doing things
>Euthanatoi. Nuff said.
>Adepts would tell them to fuck off OR "git gud"
>SJW Feminists, "witchy" social media users, and tiktok "witches" would be filtered by the Verbenas' totally unethical "animal abuse"
>Dreamspeakers are supposed to teach the people to respect the spirits, not the other way around
>Etherites now suddenly held back by Sleeper safety regulations and legal restrictions.The exact type of thing they Awakened to disregard and get away from. ow are you going to accomplish TRVE PROGRESS otherwise?
If the general public were open to the Magi's way, then they would have Awakened already.

>>96828982
Bratty. Age is valued over generation and friends with Status isn't the same as having Status but I'm too young to have been corrected yet. I'm sheltered and almost certainly less capable out here than this coterie is, they're still scared of daddy and that means they have to let me look at their business that make me squeamish.

If a Marauder had access to a Node (or multiple), would they be able to create their own Horizon Realm?
If so, what would it look like? I'm assuming it'd be even crazier than the ones "normal" mages have with magical creatures and super futuristic tech roaming around. Something that completely fucks with reality as we know it, like a realm where everything is cartoon, an Escher painting or something else. A more "normal" Marauder may create a realm resembling his home before he went nuts (i.e. his wife and children are still alive), while the more far-gone ones would make a realm that looks like Wonderland meets the Looney Tunes, perhaps?

>>96829046
I was referring to the much more reliable spells of Mage: the Awakening. Still, Paradox can be an issue.

>>96829007
>How was she trained post-embrace? Which clan?
Tremere, who else, because I like being a dick. She's essentially the Regent's childe (or so the players are led to believe) and apprentice and the Regent's planting her in the players' coterie as a kind of a loyalty test for her and at the same time to keep an eye to what the players (who are at this point working under the Prince's orders) are doing. Naturally it's all in a good will and there is no ulterior motive whatsoever and he's totally not looking for ways to throw the current Prince under the bus. Also, he wants to test his new toy in the field, that being the lowgen fledgeling and see what he can expect of her. If she does a good job, she won't become Gargoyle food.
There is also a deeper story going on, but I am still on the fence if I'm going to use it or reveal it to the players, because I might just overcomplicate stuff. It depends on how the campaign will go.
Again, brainstorming.

>>96828982
>>96829305
imagine a zoomer/millennial who just got turned and forced into a cult ponzi scheme and has loan sharks and a sword of damocles hovering over her head. I imagine she'd be terrified and motivated by fear, and would want to claw at any opportunity to take the "easy" way out and would be quick to betray. I also imagine her being high stress and under a lot of pressure for all the benefits she enjoys which forces her into a vicious cycle of brattiness.

you could play her as a confident stacy outwardly who is extremely insecure, fearful, and stressed internally and motivated by those feelings, although she doesn't express it easily. if she wins she is boastful and arrogant, but the second anything bad happens she is prone to defeatism as she knows she's gonna die. you can play this in a way where she can easily become the party's enemy and betray the party, but also, you can easily subvert her and turn her into an ally if the party decides to help this pitiful mary sue survive what will inevitably end with her on a Tremere petri dish.

>>96829046
Total Technocratic union supremacy

>>96828976
>Vampires could very easily be accepted into mainstream society, even conquer it.
High gens would probably be in a good spot but I can't imagine the public being fine with not having a lot of vampires answer for their crimes if those ever got exposed. Fighting the feds in a world where they all know about you is not a good situation.

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>>96829046
>>Hermetics would tell them to fuck off AND "git gud"
I can already imagine.
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T FUCKING BEND REALITY WITH YOUR WILL?"
>>96829082
It really depends on how insane that Marauder is. Low Quiet Marauder might have a world of superheroes and villains.
High Quiet is basically Alice in Wonderland and higher is basically eldritch stuff.

>>96828777
This is the first I've noticed the looming fomori manager in the background. It's coming along nice.

Can vampires cry? Serious question.
I always thought no, because it makes no sense, but I keep remembering some lore tidbit about vampires crying blood and now it's turning me insane.

>>96828777
Does O'Tooley's pay it's wagies more than McDonald's?

>>96828799
We need more Pentex love, all I see is nasty propaganda trying to slander a company simply trying to make impactful changes.

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>>96829571
>I have been trying to sell Pentex stocks for a few shareholders but it is hard when they hear we aren't really chasing money but instead lose money to unleash ancient evils.
>It is rough being CFO in Pentex.
Sorry I slipped into RP mood.

>>96829591
>Letting shareholders know about serving the Wyrm
HR wants to have a chat

>>96828976
>Vampires could very easily be accepted into mainstream society, even conquer it.
No. Vampiric acceptance would depend a hell of a lot on context, and the context of WoD is that they're mind-controlling parasite, serial murderers who have had a massive negative impact on human society for thousands of years.
Vampirism itself doesn't preclude them from living at peace with mortals, but their actions certainly do. It's not just, "Would you live at peace with vampires?" it's, "Would you live at peace with a guy who accidentally murders someone once every three or four months, and also was responsible for sacking Constantinople?"
Like, no way. Vampires generate baggage merely by existing. The only way they can live at peace with mortals is if they become willing to be tried for their crimes in a legit court of law, which is never going to happen.

>>96829705
>mind-controlling parasite, serial murderers who have had a massive negative impact on human society for thousands of years
And yet we celebrtize our ruling class.

Question: do you use Golconda in your games, or is Golconda passe? I'm thinking about ending our current campaign (that might actually be a last one with this group) on an optimistic note and giving my players their humanity back as a sappy goodbye.
I wonder how cheesy it'll end up being.

>>96829852
I haven't seen any of my players go for it, but if one of them wanted to try going for it, I wouldn't say no, so long as they understand it won't be easy, nor short, and might not be anything like what's described in the books.

>>96829705
>guy who accidentally murders someone once every three or four months, and also was responsible for sacking Constantinople?"
Hes actually the prince of my city! And yes, a homocidal snake-cult femboy would actually do less damage than the guys we usually elect. No cainite ever tried to privatize the water supply...

>>96828976
Everyone and their dogs know vampires hold the masquerade as a scheme to don't pay taxes and deal with retarded mortals. But let the neonates think this is some grand plan for race preservation.

>>96829884
I was always under the impression that the Kindred keep overcomplicating the Golconda, treating it as it is some kind of mathematical equation to solve, while in reality it should be a simple, unconscious act that just keeps eluding them.
Because in the end, all Caine needs to do to end his beef with God is to admit he was an asshole and all will be forgiven.

>>96829550
You can push out blood through your eyes if you want it to, technically since you control your blood.

Otherwise, i don't see why you wouldn't be able to cry like a normal person if you use blush of life.

>>96828348
>How would you rewrite the Kuei-jin to fit better with the VtM mythos
I wouldn't, I think it's a good thing that not all vampires are ropped up in the abrahamic trappings of western kindred and if anything I'd rewrite Kuei-Jin to more closely represent vampire-like entities from east asian mythology like Jiangshi and Krasue while making the lore less china-centric. I'd want to do something similar with the Laibon and Drowned Legacies too.

Reminder that true fae aren’t actually insane they’re forced to be insane by the wyrd and if they attempt to not be insane they get booted out by the wyrd

An Archmage should really do something about this

>>96828377
I don't know about 'favorite', but the one I remember the most was an autistic guy who worked at Toys R Us, eventually became a store manager, and was devested when the chain closed. He hung himself in his Geoffrey Giraffe costume but became a Geist. Then he started killing local social media influencers, whom he blamed for the downfall of real toys. He continued to wear the custom; the neck of which was creepily flopped over to one side because the support frame got broken.

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>>96829643
>HR is too busy attending the daily prayer to the Hydra
If they are high enough to join Pentex as big shareholders, they definitely heard of supernatural.

Mages are forced by the supernal to be giant assholes

>>96830080
Wtf? I love Pentex now?

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>>96830033
Yes, we'll certainly make sure to do something about them

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>>96830241
Unfortunately, they are woke. You can't even call a three armed, flame spewing Fomorian a freak during work.

Two different Fae using the same Title (whoever has it first doesn’t matter) are in effect the same individual/act. In a way.

>>96828348
>TQ
The real problem is the same problem WoD has every time it introduces something new. "This is a thing that has always existed but nothing can ever interact with it". Even when it makes no sense that there aren't vampires in Asia or Kuei-jin in Europe.

I don't want to go too into detail because some of my players are lurkers but what kind of events would precede a sabbat blood feast? I wanted to have a kind of spectacle blood orgy like those lost scenes in event horizon as a sort of herald of a new age, but I'm not exactly sure what would call for such festivities

>>96829000
So, just generally bad opinions.

In CtD, it's said that the commoners were trapped on this side of the Shattering. What was preventing them from returning to Arcadia when nobles did not have that difficulty.

>>96830479
Also another question. When the fae part of the soul is awake, the human half seems to be unaware. Or at least, when the fae part is suppressed, the human seems to not retain any memory of its changeling life. Does the changeling remember the parts of its life when it's undone?

>>96830292
I bet Pentex has employees wear "My Pronouns Are _______" badges

>>96828588
No need to, anon.
One World by Night (biggest WoD LARP fan-running organization) has yearly big events which people from all over US goes to. Those are fine events, but normaly people just do monthly LARP sessions and call it a day.
Here in Brazil is same thing: Once a month we meet, put some ok clothes and go pretend to be vampire. We also have our yearly events and people all over Brazil go. For instance, every Halloween we do a malkavian halloween party (we dearly call it "Malk-O-Ween") and its quite funny. First Malk-O-Ween we had, we had an Archon coming to the party, a dispute for São Paulo Praxis and the warning of a Malkavian methuselah via video recording. It was real fun shit. Also, my Malk character recovered his vision lost in a combat with a Demon.

>>96830397
Here’s a beginner starting point:
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/holidays

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>>96830479
Travel between the Dreaming and the material world is hard when you do now have, well, resources, knowledge and power of Nobles.
Especially when the actual roads to Arcadia got messed up even before they completely got cut off.

>>96829643
It's ok, they're with the Syndicate

>>96830479
The Nobles shut the door behind them when they left

>>96828777
Amazing as always, anon!
Also nice trips.

>>96828348
>How would you rewrite the Kuei-jin to fit better with the VtM mythos
Fuck if I know, their stuff is a pain to incorporate without making their version of vampirism a global phenomenon or deleting most of their lore.

>>96830848
Hence one of the core problems with VtM as well, by locking the source of vampirism to Judeo-Christian mythology, they made it hard to create anything outside of that.

>>96830848
>>96830890
Requiem did the right thing by making chinky vampires just another Clan.

Kuei jin are certainly interesting, what as souls who managed to claw their way back from the underworld, coming back as frenzied beasts until they calm down and rotting in the sun, but imo they feel much more geared towards being a minor supernatural creature. Something you encounter sometimes in asia instead of a vampire rather than just replacing vampires altogether.

>>96830365
While this is true, people make a big stink if they see a black person in European fantasy.

>>96830556
Based on the directory, there are only a few near me and only one accepts anything beyond vampires. In any case, I'd need to scope out the scene to determine whether I'd gel well with them.

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>>96830479
>What was preventing them from returning to Arcadia when nobles did not have that difficulty.
The Arcadians only got back to Arcadia in a panicked fight-or-flight evacuation to the last portal still open that was actively crumbling - unless you were House Eiluned and saw this coming early. They only came back after a world-shattering event (the moon landing), and their muddy memories imply it was more being exiled by their buddies back home for whatever reason for most of them.

Also, no matter how any Changeling tries to scrub off Banality, being on Earth post-Shattering in a human body means you have what's called a "Banal Shiver" in your soul, and any methods to remove it would most likely involve losing your mind to Bedlam from overexposure. That wedge causes Arcadia itself to actively reject attempts to find it, and supposedly there are armies of those true fae who made it home on guard in the Deep Dreaming, prepared to kill their own to protect the last Banality-free place in existence.

>>96830956
It's funny that they blame Christianity and the Renaissance when according to Dark Ages Fae, it was their own damn fault for trying to use that faith as a weapon against each other.

>>96830890
Works decently enough for Liabon inclusion to larger VtM, but no one ever uses them

>>96830890
>twist VtM around
>"Caine" and 2nd gen vampires are actually just mages utilizing the high gen vamps as a Consensus-trolling pyramid scheme to empower themselves free of Paradox
>they think the existence of the Tremere is fucking hilarious

>>96830890
It's not locked in though.

>>96828885
A normal SWAT team? Only if they get the drop on it and get very lucky.
A government kill team that knows what's it's dealing with and are allowed to use more destructive weapons might stand a chance depending on how they approach the situation.
It's best to call in a drone strike or blow the whole fucking place up and blame it on terrorists if I'm honest.

>>96831133
Cain is the only mythological origin with any meat on its bones.

>>96831016
They are fine, but what the fuck is there to say about them? Their geopolitical situation is a fine place to set a story, but it is hard for people to give a shit about the entirety of Africa.

>>96831008
Dark Ages Fae was written by completely different writers who hated Changeling

>>96831240
>Dark Ages Fae was written by completely different writers who hated Changeling
And? Changeling is kind of a shit show at the best of time.

>>96830946
And catering to those people famously rakes in the cash and produces interesting fantasy.

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>>96829852
>>96829911
>"here bro have golconda, actually have four. yeah, really. kbai"

wasn't saulot the single vampire who achieved gondola anyways?

>>96829852
Make the last session with an opportunity to gain Golconda. Don't just give it to them, it won't be rewarding that way.

>>96831361
>gondola
Fuggggggggggg :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>96831361

I thought Saulot got chowed down on

>>96830902
Requiem also made it so that every clan is a completely different origin, but no vamp actually can remember accurately what that origin is because of the way the Sleep of Ages fucks with your memories. The 5 main Kindred clans just happen to share traits that make them blend in best in human society.

>>96831361
No, there are other NPCs who have achieved it and a couple of retcons of what golconda even is.

>>96831381
Yeah, but he was alive for like 2000 years before he got slobbered up by Tremere, so it stands to reason he could achieve Golconda in that time

>>96831387
They have also cannibalized one another for long enough to become closer in mechanical terms. There is an example of another creature in the middle of such a process, the Formosas.

>>96831198
Plus, you know, Caine is still around in the setting.

And the Generation mechanic is another aspect that "proves" that it's a curse that flows from an original vampire.

why does every single fucking tremere wear those stupid red tinted glasses
COULD YOU BE ANY MORE CRINGE BRO

God, I am so disappointed with Bloodlines 2, I am actually considering getting Crusader Kings 3 for the WoD mod.

>>96831420
It's called fashion sweaty.

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>>96831420
>Yeah bro your glasses look fire, really help to hide the blood red eyes and stuff

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>>96831370
>"this is your only chance to get gondola anon, what does your character do"
>"I say sorry and ask pretty please for my humanity back, I started at 7 dots and now I'm at 4 so clearly I deserve enlightenment."
>"you did it! you are winner! for 10000 years no one thought to try that, yay you! kbai"

>>96831445
Now now, I just said not to give it to them

>>96831361
>achieved it
The salubri want you to believe that, just like Saulot talks about how he's a good guy

>>96830292
Gee, no need to such a chud. We have to be respectful of all cultures and endowments. We're not some low IQ savages into bestiality.

>>96831418
>And the Generation mechanic is another aspect that "proves" that it's a curse that flows from an original vampire.
Basically, I'm sure there are other ways to justify stuff like this but at the end of the day none of alternative stories go anywhere.
The only one I recall of the top of my head was a V5 blurb about a middle eastern spirit killing itself to revive their lover or something along those lines.

>>96828777
Looks grand anon. However... Isn't the name a typo? It's O'Tollies not O'Toolies
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/O%27Tolley%27s
>>96828909
>Bloatys Pizza Hog" commercials from Invader Zim
Perfect. That's the kind of restaurant I want my WoD to get their burger-type edibles* from.
>Lotso-chocco burger syrup!(now with 100% 'real' choco! 0% chocolate)" or "the sauce" or "slopponnaise" or "Freddie Fly's Funky Flavor Spread"
Yeah I'll have a Capn Cartilage with the Extra Large Porco-loco Sauce and uuuuuh large fries. And a Willy Wolfkillah toy for the lil un.

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what if Saulot allowed himself to be chomped by Tremere because Saulot knew that Tzimisce intentionally allowed Tremere to chomp him so that all of the Tremere have a piece of Tzimisce's vicissitude monster inside of them so that Tzimisce will one day trigger a blood curse and beckoning to absorb all of the pyramid in addition to all of his own descendants (two clans for the price of one) so Saulot intervened and sacrificed himself so that he might free clan Tremere and screw over Tzimisce who wants to become an eldritch blood god who assimilates the moon and flies off into other galaxies to continue spreading the joys of vicissitude to an sentient life willing to offer their biomass to the eldest

>>96831494
The eldest muppet is just a Cammie bogeyman, go back to sleep acolyte.

>>96831492
https://youtu.be/gaK7qMQqeUA

Guys, I'm starting to think vampires are evil by default

Where should I start researching this setting more if I liked Bloodlines 1? Everyone here seems to hate V5, but I don't know if that's just /tg/ or if its universally reviled by the playerbase.

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>>96831536
Nah, not a single thing in vampirism makes you automatically evil.
But as Sins of the Blood put it:
"The key to Golconda lies in denying that the Beast has power over the higher self, and giving in to the riddle is a victory for the Beast. It is akin to saying, “The Devil made me do it,” and while the Beast is more a factor in the unlife of a Cainite than some improbable malevolent demigod is in the life of a mortal, the fact is that the Cainite owes full responsibility for the Beast’s actions."

>>96831543
Anon look at the OP. Those mega folders, yes? Get the v20 folders for vampire. Barring that lore people on youtubs can be decent primers depending on the person or subject.

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Is this novel rpg game or whatever the genre is called any good? Seems like it would be comfy to play and I saw you can link purchases from steam to a device like an iPad so it can be read/played on there.

>>96831543
Do you have money to spare or aren't afraid to pirate it?
Revised Clan Books of your favorite clans, Revised Guide to the Camarilla, Sabbat and Anarchs, Tal'Mahe'ra the True Black Hand

Then, depending on your preferences Sins of the Blood, Dark Ages books, Hunters Hunted, Rites of the Blood etc.

If you don't have the money, don't want to bother with pirating or reading lots of books. V20 Core, Lore of the Clans, Lore of the Bloodlines.

>>96831579
It's decent enough, there's some v5 stupidity that can rub people the wrong way.

>>96831573
>>96831584
Is there a reason why v20 is the definitive version? It seems like there's a been a lot of reboots, offshoots, and a lot of editions over the years.

>>96831579
>>96831598
Night Road sucks and is a waste of time. Pick something else.

>>96831579
The genre is just called CYOA novels or Visual Novels, started in the 80s in the UK with booklines like Fighting Fantasy

I should make my own WoD Visual Novel.
But I fear I might end up just making it porn.

>>96831611
As I understand as a relative newcomer too, v20 is a 'love letter' that took all the best bits and pieces of previous versions and put it all in one big book

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>>96831536
We've been telling you this for 700 years.

>>96831611
1st Edition is the OG janky edition.
2nd Edition is the refinement of it.
Revised is a refinement of 2nd Edition
20th Edition is mostly Revised but condensed.

They are all using mostly similar systems and easy to port stuff from each other.

5th Edition is an entirely different beast, with different systems and doesn't really fit with the others. Lore also sucks but they have been backtracking hard in the last years.

>>96831611
v20 is a compilation edition alongside updates so it helped wrangle all the wider stuff.

>>96831536
I don't know anon. Are you sure it's not old man falling part just telling you that?

>>96831536
Vampires are mouse traps for banes. Set and allocate accordingly.

>>96831536
They drink blood but can't digest black pudding
A sign of evil if there ever was one

>>96831579
Night Road is particularly one of the better ones but yeah they're alright. Hard to enjoy a replay at times but also keep in mind all those games are based on V5 so there's still some pretty stupid shit that'll catch you off guard for no reason or a couple of things that won't make much sense.
Played so far
>Book of Hungry Names
Woof shit, but it's the best imo
>Glenkildove
It's alright, less mechanics heavy and more railroad. Hunter V5 based
>Night Road
Pretty good id say but has some issues
>Blood one forgot name of
It's hunter, but using Vtm V5 since H5 didn't come out yet

>>96831654
>Lore also sucks but they have been backtracking hard in the last years.
As someone relatively unfamiliar with the setting I've skimmed through the starter set and it seems more or less ok to me. What's the really bad stuff?

>>96831654
I'd call what Revised did "expansion" rather than "refinement." Revised didn't refine or narrow down much at all, it just added a whole lot more shit. When people bitch and moan about metaplot bloat and every corner of the world being stuffed full of powerful NPCs, they're complaining about Revised. It intentionally ramped everything up to eleven in preparation for the Time of Judgement books and that's not necessarily a positive thing.

>>96831709
Personally?
>Total Sabbath collapse (kinda)
>Tremere Pyramid destroyed (sort of)
>SI spooks are a terrible setting addition
>Beckoning is just an excuse to put thinbloods and high gen "elders" at the forefront
If we look at W5 there's a lot of other things that are kind of sucky
>Woofs already lost so you play a Gaia-cuck in denial
>No kinfolk
>Garou are just random spawn
>They changed up the tribes to be less abrasive except gas all humans race war now Red Talons
I haven't read Hunter 5 but I'm sure someone could give you a breakdown about how it's just Vigil but not as cool

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>>96831709
Simplifying is the name of the game for V5.
Disciplines? Condense them! What do you mean it breaks everything from the past if you think about it?
Sects? Sabbat is now in the middle east and gave up most of their territories. Others are barely mentioned except for Anarchs.
Old Vampires? MIDDLE EAST! Elder and other old vampires are leaving for the middle east! You can be a Prince of the city even as a Neonate!
Combat? Skip it after the first few turns!
Actually keep track of your Blood? Nope, it's all chance!
Now we think about it, you are all too connected! Camarilla is now anti-technology (even though it wasn't in anyway in the past!, see image) ) and now there is a Second Inquisition that bombed the capital of Austria and blamed it on Muslims!
All the Bloodlines? CONDENSE THEM or never mention them!

I could go on but you are better of not touching V5 at all.
...
Or really 5th Edition at all since H5 and W5 are even worse. Way worse.

>>96831709
The second inquisition as a whole and how it equates to a total tech black out is a big one.
I bitched about it recently but it's genuinely baffling, a bit grating too, that vampiric infiltration of kine governments and corps didn't have a wider impact of the technological development in the setting. Like hell, they were blindsided by Firstlight and its equivalents when they should have ghouls high enough up in bureaucratic echelons to give them not just advanced warning but a way to hamper and misdirect them. Hell, I'll give them schrecknet going down as a result of 9/11 making the sleeping giant turn over in its sleep but the infiltrators should've come down harder on the panopticon states. Especially London.

Smart phones should've been actively maimed internally from vamp infiltrators and ghouls, alongside increased market competition via smart phones without fucking touch screens and biometrics.

>>96831745
I think people's issue with H5 has less to do with Lore changes are more to do with the fact it's just a separate thing from older Hunters games like the lack of Imbued or that being an org Hunter is in fac,t bad and Evil

>>96831709
A quick rundown on some shit the V5 corebook
>The Second Inquisition is now a main threat and because of that you can't use smartphones and similar tech
>99.99% of elders fucked off to the Middle East
>The Sabbath is now irrelevant because they all fucked off to the Middle East
>The Camarilla also owns the Middle East because the Ashirra were a shit show
>Kuei Jin aren't a thing anymore
>The Tremere got fucked out of most of their powers
>Thin Bloods got a bunch of new powers
>Different kinds of blood became a thing and then got abandoned

>>96831684
But they're those self-setting bucket traps so they get about fifty inside, dying slow and scratching. And they reproduce more of themselves, they convert available space into more barns, and they can chase you.

>>96831745
Not that anon, but would you recommend to start going over the oWoD books from the OP rather than the 5th ed or the 20th ed? I've been trying to get into the setting myself but it's sort of difficult to understand where I should even start.

>>96831767
>Different kinds of blood became a thing and then got abandoned
Why do all the video games use them?

>>96831761
>being an org Hunter is in fact, bad and Evil
It's only bad and evil when it's not our beloved organization. Or it's backed by the Syndicate

>>96831767
>>96831775
Different kinds of blood?

>>96831775
>Why do all the video games use them?
Because it is a good mechanical and plot hook for night to night games.

>>96831761
Org hunters being spooks has been a theme before I think but yeah it's just not Hunter the Reckoning
>>96831770
20th Ed is just a compilation book so it's long but much easier to read, and it keeps the same dark vibes and feel of the older books. The old books have a lot of supplemental material they got adapted for the 20th eds though I've heard Mage Revised is better than Mage20

>>96831768
That's the beautiful part. When Gehenna rolls around, the vampires simply face judgement.

>>96831791
blood resonance. Despite the other anon's whinging, only bloodlines 2 uses it. In practice it's just taste because it's using the four humors to describe the emotional state of the person you drank from.
There's probably some aborted mechanic about how if you're particular to sanguine blood it could be more filling or makes it easier to use disciplines.

>>96831758
It's ironic that the Camarilla are anti-tech because the SI power sweeps them over crumbs of unreliable information like l33t hackers or something

>>96831809
Bloodhunt also used it

>>96831775
>Why do all the videogames use V5 now
Because Paradox doesn't let you make a video game if you don't base it on their new fucked edition

>>96831827
Right that was a thing. My bad completely forgot about that game.

>>96831758
Don't the Sabbat have a relatively new sourcebook?

>>96831761
Ironically org Hunters being bad would fit in well with Reckoning but oh no no we can't remotely imply Exalted

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>>96831791
They took the real-life 4 Humors and made them into potion-like effects if a vampire drank from someone that experienced an exceptionally strong emotion, disease, or whatever the hell.

>>96831831
Considering how quickly it died, i don't really blame you for forgetting it.

You know, there's supposed to be 13 clans but most all of the official listings tend to include the weird tzimeze offshoot rather than the actual had an antediluvian 13th clan

>>96831869
That's because antediluvians aren't real

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>>96831838
They are there to be antags and nothing else.

>>96831948
Well that's rather boring.

>>96831869
Salubri don't exist, fledgling. Just demons inhabiting good and true kindred. The tremere did one thing right by bringing them to the clans attention

>>96831948
well that's lame and gay, even the Pure sourcebook still gives rules for playing as the Pure if a group wants to. And the Pure are as close as any WoD game has ever come to making bonafide skinheads a major faction in a game

>>96831252
Honestly it feels like a good percentage of Changeling writers were just seething about the entire concept and were just trying to shit up the line.

>>96832046
That's because they were.

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>>96831420
I unironically enjoy the red glasses and every single tremere I played wore a pair.

>Privateers are just in it for the love of the game
>Militia just want to hurt the True Fae any way they can (and even the book admits that most of the Summer Court therefore fits the definition of militia)
>Bridgeburners think (incorrectly) that the Gentry can be barred from Earth by breaking trods and gateways, because nobody ever told them that the Gentry can forge new trods and gates at any time, any place, as easily as breathing
Which of these three changeling antag groups are the best, and which is the least interesting?

>>96832155
In it for the love of the game is it's own form of Kino but if you're trying to get emotional depth out of it you aren't getting far

>>96828452
You are a drooling retard

>>96832155
Privateers have better hooks IMO.

>>96832130
They're such a good fashion piece for them.

Reading storyteller's handbook to the sabbat, in the trial by fire story how and why is there so much combat? There are like 25 enemies, and 10 of those are vampires. I get it's a sabbat game and all but what were they expecting a bunch of presumably starter characters to do?

>>96831788
>Or it's backed by the Syndicate
Traditionsfag hands typed this post

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>>96831420
Because they're cool and thematic

>>96832247
They can't hide your crossed eyes bro, just get normal shades.

How do we stop the stereotype of werewolves being low iq himbos? It is very hurtful.

>>96832299
they just need to get in touch with the Camarilla. Their propaganda networks can totally repair werewolf reputation

>>96832299
>*throws tennis ball in the other direction*

>>96832299
I heard Pentex has some really good media companies, I'm sure they can change their public image

>>96832299
But himbos are sweet. Werewolves are belligerent assholes.

>>96832353
Werewolves are sweet in a retarded sort of way. They just don’t know any better.

>>96832299
They're not himbo retards, they're egotistical retards

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Pitch me your most fun cyclops build idea.

>>96832380
You mean triclops.

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>>96832385
hmmmm nyes

>>96830038
As someone old enough to have nostalgia for Toys R Us, damn. Wasn't ready for that reminder. Fun antagonist concept.

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>>96832130
I need more vampire ladies (with the red glasses)

>>96830902
Honestly I preferred the 1e Wicked Dead approach of having pseudo-vampires with different templates but still using disciplines and shit.

>>96832407
is this someone's OC? I see her a lot

>>96832299
You can't, even if you disregard the lore.
Werewolves are seen as the combat splat in both WoD and CofD. If you want to play a muscly blender, play a werewolf. Vampire and Mage are the more cerebral games, so werewolves are seen as dumb in comparison to vampires and mages.
Even if werewolves weren't designed for combat in both games, the archetypal form of a werewolf is a gargantuan muscly wolf-man. As brains and brawns are often considered a dichotomy, this leads the assumption that the big muscly man couldn't possibly be smart.
Werewolves are innately animalistic due to the base concept of them and bestial creatures are typically considered less intelligent than more humanoid ones.

So no matter the lore you go with, werewolves will always be considered big dumb furries as a default and you would need to work extremely hard to counteract that.

>>96832436
Newfag.

>>96832299
werewolves being variable IQ but still retarded himbo ecoterrorists is part of their appeal
>>96832469
this anon gets it, otherwise they'd be winning 24/7
>can diff even high level vampires other than the true upper levels
>get to face tank mechas
>only weak to silver, fire, magic
If they weren't relatively low numbers (compared to vampires pre v5) you would think they'd be permanently winning, stopping companies via supernatural terrorism is relatively a lot easier than you would think

>>96831759
I half agree. You can't have tech go a radically different route without it turning into an alt-hist urban fantasy hybrid. But I don't think that's even necessary. Vampires having "their guys" in tech and government should just stop the SI from forming outright. Fed hunters might have bigger budgets due to the GWOT, but there's no way the delicate and slow operation of getting the U.S., Russia, and a group of Catholic extremists who allegedly definitely shot John Paul I to trust each other, intel share, and run joint ops. I know people inside the MIC, and being perfectly honest most top brass would sooner side with actual bloodsucking vampires than the ruskies on anything.

HtV did fed hunters the best. TF:V is quite strong but held back by red tape. The biggest problem is that Valkyrie's definitely compromised by certain well-connected vampires, meaning that most of the time they're dusting the shitty street vamps that cause a problem and get out of line. In order to actually go after a well-connected vamp, you basically have to do it under your superior's noses. The shadiness isn't just limited to vampires even if they're the ones that have actively compromised it. But you do have standing orders to capture Prometheans alive for experimentation, implying someone in R&D is doing some fucked shit with their Azoth and Pyros.

Also, the smartphone thing also doesn't even make any sense. You can rub raw meat on a touch screen and it'll move.

>>96832500
Smartphones release IR pulses every few seconds, meaning every time you're using one your face is being scanned and so is everything in front of it, for as long as it is being held up. Smartphones also make use of contact tracing (as demonstrated during the Covid years) and keeps track of everything you do on it. They're nothing but surveilance devices pretending to be consumer electronics.

>>96832500
The SI just feels like a type of threat that would be more at home in a combat heavy game like Werewolf I think, they're very much at a level of "schizoid conspiracy theory gained traction" that wouldn't really work well with the masquerade setting unless the masquerade already failed, in which case the SI and everyone and their mother should know vampires are real but the SI doesn't do that because?
The entire setting just falls apart at the seams like that. I don't like W5 but at least it maintains consistency with the whole
>werewolves are trying their best but they can't reasonably win
Approach

>>96832542
I'm complaining about the actual justification V5 used for no smartphones at launch, which was that vampires can't use touchscreens.

>>96832550
>The SI just feels like a type of threat that would be more at home in a combat heavy game like Werewolf I think
Kinda, I can't really see governments being happy about terror attacks aimed at industrial targets. Attacking an oil drilling platform on US soil would result in every kind od fed investigating it.

>>96832627
That is something that about Werewolf that I always found weird
>semi frequent ecoterrorism
>no major investigative force, always the local cops
I'm aware that woofs make cameras glitch out and everything but even then you'd think there would be more of an effort. Though I guess maybe Pentex doesn't report it because they also don't want the government to find out they're trying to end the world via Wyrm juice

CAPTAIN PLANNNNET is essentially Werewolf right

>>96832500
I wouldn't really strive for a radically different tech alt-hist. Just more Nokia, Motorolla, and Blackberry are still around and have alternatives to help establish middle ground between tech blackout and how all watching web 2.0 and 3.0 can be. It'd be vampires giving themselves wiggle room while tightening operation security cause Elders, in their unfathomable intelligence, underestimated kine capabilities and intelligence yet again.
The elders shouldn't even be a damocles sword if the beckoning is played straight.

>>96832657

Captain Planet with a gun in hand and a harrowed look in his eyes declaring "peace is dead" and "only REAL change works" after killing all his friends

>>96832542
Unplug your wireless router if you're getting up. They don't need any parts added to be used for imaging.

>>96832657
A kinder interpretation, yes. Kinder for the woofs, cause they really are just beaten like a dead horse. I think only old CtD comes close

>>96832656
]Though I guess maybe Pentex doesn't report it because they also don't want the government to find out they're trying to end the world via Wyrm juice
That could be a double-edged sword. Making an attack too hard to cover up would result in Pentex companies being investigated (potentially by groups like the SAD) but that could also result in getting hit with a drone strike.

>>96832657
Werewolves are all retarded, so retarded in fact that they're literally responsible for everything wrong with the world, they tried to genocide humanity so hard that all humans are genetically terrified of them but they became blubbering bitches as soon as humans figured out how to wield silver, they exterminated all of the other shapeshifters responsible for actually looking after the world, they're basically responsible for driving the Weaver insane which is what led to the Wyrm being imprisoned and the Wyrm going insane, they're genuinely retarded and responsible for all of the worst shit in the setting, it wouldn't be the World of Darkness if the Garou were even a tiny bit less retarded, you seriously wouldn't believe just how retarded the Garou are, even after hundreds of generations of constantly fucking up and making things worse for everyone, they're still retarded, they're still clinging to the same old traditions, the entire setting would be a million times better and brighter if Gaia never made them, these retards are original sin made manifest, there genuinely isn't anyone anywhere near as retarded as the Garou are in any other setting ever, there is almost no fight that the Garou would not fumble and end up losing, they are just that retarded, they even try to exterminate each other in their retardation without realising how much worse they are making the world, they really are the source of all of the World of Darkness's problems, that's how retarded they are

IRA and ETA managed to get the government to bend to their will, at least for a while. If woofs couldn't manage that even once they're more retarded than DT-addled Irishmen and inbred Basques.

>>96832657
Captain Planet with an Asterisk* and said Asterisk involves racism, xenophobia, slavery, and undead voodoo

>>96831420
Cringe we are, lest cringe we become.

>>96832728
IRA kinda failed to do that outside of Boston, and all the money the US gave to IRA during the troubles basically accounted for a week's worth of operations, so not enough for go against even a small Pentex subsidiary for the Woofs

>>96832728
Suicidal doomcult corporation is a bit different from government, but also that's kind of the nature of being able to act openly versus Woofs trying to keep the spirit world hidden from humans so that they don't start playing with things they don't understand

>>96831948
Figures. Typical paradox doesn't wanna even consider it so they close the door on money

>>96831611
V20 is not the definitive edition of the game. It just easier to acquire because it was the last version of oWoD.

Revised and 2E were way, way better and moodier in their art. Excellent layout and incredible atmosphere. But they're harder to get because they don't produce it anymore so you will have to hunt for them. That said V20 is "ok". But really the black and white art was another vibe and if you're a newcommer is good for your imagination being exposed to it.

>>96832794
Exec logic has been safe design = broad appeal for the past decade or so

>>96832801
Good art in RPG books died sometime in the early 2000s.

What’s the difference between Lasombra and Ventruw? They both seek power hungry but is it that Lasombra are more extreme in how they achieve it?

>>96832971
Fucking phone posting… excuse the typos
*Ventrue and *seem power hungry

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>>96832971
Lasombra have all the big titty Spaniard waifus.

>>96832571
I don't remember that being a weakness for all vampires, only Lasombra. In the V5 corebook, they just said that phones are banned due to the Second Inquisition.

>>96832971
>Ventrue
Shadow manipulator smooth talker types, business dudes, more up front
>Lasombra
Like Mafioso type shadow manipulators, brutal punishment type of stuff.
It's just shadow magic really, but they're a different flavor of the "boss" archetype

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>>96832987
Its not a weakness (except for the Lasombra), you just have to use Blush of Life in order to use them.

>>96832971
Ventrue are the more typical "ruler" clan. Even Ventrue who gain power through methods such as being a warlord or a mob boss generally consider things like being well-liked by their subordinates. This doesn't mean every Ventrue operates through being respected or loved, but they prefer it to the alternative. They're huge on their public image, and many have a sense of noblesse oblige, or that because they are noble and better (and thus should be in charge) they should also extend charity and aid to the plebs in turn. This doesn't mean Ventrue are good guys, some have a very strong sense of personal honor, others are complete rats, but both seek to build their power base to last and seek high social station and control.

Lasombra are different, to them, power is power and making concessions, even for a better outcome than if they didn't make a concession, is a bitch move. Many Lasombra don't bother with achieving social status or a rulership position, to them power is being able to kill anyone who looks at them funny, or through mastery of Obtenebration. Of course most still seek high status and positions of formally recognized power, but even then, they have a "by any means necessary" approach to achieving that and a "Be too strong to overthrow" approach to holding it.

The differences are well highlighted by how they typically choose their childer. Ventrue look for talented mortal seeds that they groom for the role, or self-made men and women that have a proven track record of success. They then put them through a very rigorous training regimen and trial before formally inducting them into the clan. Lasombra on the other hand utterly ruin their childer before their embrace. They get them fired from their job, they kill their family, they do everything they can to make them snap, and if they don't snap at absolute rock bottom they embrace them.

>>96833057
oh and to add the final major difference in clan culture

Ventrue foster an "old boys club" mentality, where cooperation between Ventrue is incentivized and conflict disincentivized through rules of etiquette and tradition. Thus, they can mobilize and coordinate almost as well as the literally blood bonded Tremere, and without as much resentment.

Lasombra are fine with you killing and even diablerizing your fellow Lasombra so long as you can prove to the court they were in fact bitch made and had it coming.

>>96833043
>>96833057
>>96833077
Interesting, thank you. So I guess people that play Lasombra just like being an edgier Ventrue then. Can you play one that isn’t so brutal? The shadow magic stuff sounds interesting though.

>>96833057
That makes Lacroix a really shitty Ventrue.

>>96832971
>More extreme
Ehh, they can both be extreme. It's more methods and how they react to the methods. Both themselves, and clan mores.
Ventrue have the whole 'won't get their hands dirty' stereotype. They justify it to themselves in varying ways, mostly about being the leader, and as such use intermediaries or get other people to do their dirty work. They like to believe they're presentable and how if they dress themselves up nice enough, they're the best because clothes make the man. The idea of a respected godfather figure that doesn't have to do more than lift a hand to signal someone's demise.

Lasombra are an interesting mix. While they like positions of power, they are much closer to being actual underworld types. If presented with a problem, here in front of them directly, they would make sure their environment is good/safe/secure in a subtle manner and then they would strangle the problem with their bare hands. Some might dress it up in anger, dealing with disrespect, disdain, or even pleasure and sadism. But the biggest underpinning part of that strangulation is because the problem was right there in front of them and they had the means to make it not a problem anymore. They see the beauty in taking the shortest path from A to B and thus are more than fine with getting their hands dirty, chipping a nail in the process, to make sure that they arrive at B when they desire.
That's not to say they don't do active and long-term manipulations. It's why they're mirrored to the Ventrue, but they go about it by being the voice in the leader's ear. Doing the mafia comparison again, Lasombra are the consiegliere that the don goes to for advice and strategy. As such they might be targeted but unlike their Ventrue counterparts, they're better equipped to handle killing threats.

This isn't getting into how one could argue both clans could be competent chameleons that infiltrate groups with easy. Or how the Lasombra themselves have connections to the supernatural

>>96833095
Sure you can play one that isn't pretending to be an edgier DBZ character but your fellow Lasombra probably won't make it easy

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>>96832971
Easy, Ventrue actually wants to build stuff and rule. They will "ask" you for things, even if you know damn well you will accept it, rather than order you straight up. They try to be proper Kings and rulers.

Lasombra don't care about that at all. They want the shiny thing. They want to rule over that shiny thing and they want you to be their slave. They don't really care about actual act of building and maintaining. They want the finished product and the thrill of ruling.

>>96833098
Yes, he was. He was way too top heavy in how he operated. A good Ventrue is bottom heavy.

>>96833098
Lacroix was calm and relatively competent and polite at the beginning of the game. He starts to unravel from paranoia and greed near the end.

>>96833098
LaCroix was indeed a shitty Ventrue and rather weak, a lot of the context in the game makes it seem like he was set up to fail because he wasn't well liked or something by the Camarilla elders

>>96833095
>isn't so brutal
Yes. I'd say it's for the better cause the edgier shit is just WW legacy stuff when Lasombra were underdeveloped and were just Sabbat Ventrue. Besides, what's worse? Breaking someone's kneecaps and elbows or dragging them into an empty and dark wasteland they'll never escape from unless you allow it?

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>>96833098
He was fine for what he was. He kept Kuei-jin in check and Anarchs...well calm.
Then the whole plan with Smiling Jack and Caine came and everything else happened.

And funny thing is, seeting how incompetent Seattle Camarilla is in Bloodlines 2, how they basically have been secretly Sabbat since 1950s, basically redeems LaCroix in my eyes.

>>96833154
Jack wasn't the same, Jack was obviously better.

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>>96832728
>>96832765
Clearly Irish people are more powerful than werewolves

I've been relistening about the latest Hunter the Parenting Audiolog, and I've got a really bad theory about what happened to Wernon.
It all hinges on the (probably unsupported by anything) idea that, because he was born after Kronik became a Stolen Moon, Wernon was Kinfolk, and he later became a more...regular-ish Garou.
That's how he was able to put up a fight with what killed him (Which suspect was a "NIGHTMARE FREAK OUT!" Bane that exploded out of Spits head), but I don't know what kind of Bane could reduce a Garou(Who was likely only in Glabro Form, but still) to a goopy puddle of Homid Soup.

>>96831761
>being an org Hunter is in fac,t bad and Evil
5th edition really doesn't want you to have fun, huh?

>>96829446
Glad you like that! It's supposed to also represent the heavy hand, in this case literal, of Pentex. And also to show that even a small amount of advancement within the ranks of Pentex dooms you almost irrevocably to corruption.
>>96829554
Probably! But also, I imagine that O'Tooley's as essentially replaced all fast food options. They are everywhere. Inescapable. And even places that AREN'T O'Tooley's still uses their products.
>>96830840
Thanks man!
>>96831492
Damn what the fuck? I always thought it was O'Tooley's. Maybe because it's literally a TOOL of the Wyrm? And rhymes with "fool"(as in, 'Don't be a fooley, eat with O'Tooley!')?
I think I may stick with it, since O'Tolley's doesn't really roll off the tongue, and at this point, just looks wrong. But damn, you ARE correct. How did I miss that?

>>96833237
... or, hear me out, he was killed by the Red Talon because he was the most likely to figure her out and as a part of some stupid grudge against his ancestors.

As a magefag when I first played Bloodlines I had so many daydreams of molesting Lacroix as a dominant Hermetic

He deserves to be molested

>>96833256
Fujo or gay?

>>96833268
Fudanshi.

>>96833268
Ventrue, actually

>>96833255
I did say the idea was probably unsupported by anything.

>>96833236
And yet the Fianna are still in the same quagmire of self-destructive retardation as all the other woofs. There's something about being a woof that kills your ability to be a competent terrorist, it seems.

>>96833276
So the stick would be going up Lacroix ass this time around?

>>96833287
>this time
It always did but yes

>>96833287
Sadly for you Lacroix already has his 9ft tall African Mandingo sugar baby to fill his ass, he doesn't need you.

>>96833154
Jack 's game was more about trolling the Cammies or the Sabbat, honestly I think if he trolled the Anarchs too he would have been fine with it

>>96833242
>And also to show that even a small amount of advancement within the ranks of Pentex dooms you almost irrevocably to corruption
We prefer to call it "spiritual enlightenment". Our emploees understand the inner workings of the universe.

>>96833237
>Wernon became a regular Garou way after the typical time they become capable of doing it
>>96833277
>>96833255
I will say though, with everything in context it does seem rather unlikely that Matilda would kill Fatigue for no reason. I don't expect we'll ever find out unless they do a flashback but maybe Fatigue blew her cover when she came by to sneak into the security room. Matilda was running on exceptional restraint and despite being a retarded woof didn't actually antagonize Wernon as much as you'd think if she had it out for him. I think there'd be much more foreshadowing if it was actually over a grudge

>>96833286
Pick your poison for the Fianna
>Listening to elders
>Listening to Fae
>Listening to ancestors
>Listening to spirits
>Being a retarded dog (Rage)
Average werewolf decision making considerations + listening to dicks

>>96833388
Probably a mix of both. She was already being extremely bitchy and angry, she knows Fatigue is the one who knows the most about Werewolves, she probably even knows his family has a history of killing and skinning Werewolves. And then she finds him alone with two inept security guards, one of whom is in the back room. Maybe he makes a comment implying he knows, maybe he's got his eyes dead on where she's trying to sneak into.

It's not premeditated but when the situation is already going FUBAR you might as well give in to your unga bunga savage impulses.

>>96833256
Get in line. There's like half of LA vampires and even a german dude wanting to do the same to him.

>>96833388
My assumption would have been that he went through his First Change before he left the Phillipines.

>>96833403
Likely a bit of both yeah I could see it. Although despite being bitchy and angry she was pretty believably annoyed over the whole circumstance, so likely everyone around already knew her enough to guess that it isn't weird. At any rate
>Retarded dog makes the situation worse for herself
>extrapolate ad infinitum when inevitably after taking Markus hostage they fuck up the confrontation again
Ironically, I don't actually think it's the HtP writers pointing out they're retarded here nearly every piece of WoD werewolf media basically has them do it to themselves

>>96833451
Eh, that'd be cool but Stolen Moons can't make Kinfolk can they?

>>96833461
You need to be kinfolk for Skin Dancing to even work, at least from the version of the ritual we know about. The Fatigue's version may not need this as a requirement, but Wernon was suspiciously immune to the effects of the Delirium even before he confronted his family.

>>96833487
>Wernon rejecting his family's proposition
Isn't that indicative of maybe high willpower as an easier explanation than hidden kinfolk?

>>96833512
The evidence of his time in the Philippines points towards kinfolk status. Namely because he retains a complete memory of his experiences. He remembered everything but still showed fear at the sight of the werewolf in the cave "God in Heaven!". If you have willpower 10, you would be willing to walk into burning napalm to get what you want, you would never show fear. When he sees the werewolf Kronik captured, he is perturbed, but not in a supernatural manner.

So, he can express himself normally, show disgust, fear, anger. But he has complete control, yet remembers everything fully. The only explanation is that he is kinfolk.

>>96833691
Delirium wanes with repeat exposure.

>>96832247
I always took him for a lasombra or maybe tzimeze

>>96833286
>>96833395
More like there's something about being a woof that nukes your IQ.

>>96833813
He's canonically a Tzimisce.

>>96833813
Lasombra that learned vicissitude

>>96833813
There is no direct analog to WoD for Hellsing true vampires. When they drink someone who isn't a virgin of the opposite sex, they absorb their soul. Which is why the body becomes a ghoul, though Alucard clearly prefers to ruin the corpses of those he feeds on to prevent ghouls from rising.

Alucard drank hundreds of thousands of souls when he first turned, which is why it's so easy for him to regenerate: he just ablates minor souls away.

Which is also part of why Seras is powerful in her own right once she truly Becomes - she's not wasting energy in conflict with a bunch of souls, she's in sync with a single one who loves her back.

>>96833838
>He's canonically a Tzimisce.
He's canonically THE Dracula.

>>96832722
10/10 post
FUCK retarded werewolves

>>96833852
I mean in VtM's canon.

>>96833848
You can build them with the Vampire Fomorians rules and some modified flaws.
IIRC some of his major powers can be replicated with Daimoinon and Dark Thaumaturgy.

“The entire world is on fire and they have chainsaws for hands, yet there's not a single tree in sight.”

Werewolf: The Apocalypse

>>96832722
This post is endorced by:
>Pentex
>The Technocratic Union
>Vampires
>Hunters
>The Weaver
>The Wyrm

>>96833964
I, random anonymous, do endorse that message.

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>>96833154
>funny thing is, seeting how incompetent Seattle Camarilla is in Bloodlines 2, how they basically have been secretly Sabbat since 1950s, basically redeems LaCroix in my eyes.
Realistically speaking, LaCroix did nothing wrong. It's only natural to want to raise your power in the game of politics. I never understood the message about how he was greedy. Live for 5 minutes in the WoD and you'll make the same decision.

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speaking of weebslop, did anyone else unironically like Shiki
the finale may have been lame but the mid parts and tension were really good, especially mid-way when the general tone slowly shifted from Vampire to Hunter, I thought it was really cool contrast

>>96833852
Dracula in VtM is an Old Clan Tzimisce.
Alucard in Hellsing fits with Tzimisce, but less Old Clan. Especially once he functionally eats London and becomes a vampiric singularity embodying all those who had been killed in the conflict. The Schrodinger shit could be considered attaining Golconda.

>>96834116
never bother to watch it.